Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam

[Anant Narayanan]

On 14-Jan-08, at 1:12 PM, Sriram J wrote:
> So i am back to my original question
> Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability.

It's simply a matter of personal preference / ideals. I know people  
who would not use proprietary software even if it out-performs or is  
more usable than its free software counterpart. On the other hand,  
there are those who would use proprietary software if it gets the job  
done faster, and will switch only when the corresponding free software  
comes upto the mark.

--
Anant

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Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam

[Sriram J]

On 1/14/08, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:43:32 +0530, Sriram J
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability.  but
>
>If you find free software is not as usable as you would wish it
> to be, you have the  opportunity to improve the free software in
> question by scratching your itch.  This is how we get free software to
> start with.


There is a catch here.
you can not scratch your itch any way you feel like.
only if the free software you write matches 100% with the ideology only then
it is accepted.
if you scratch you itch for hardware support in a way that does not
completely and totally match the ideology then it will be removed or
disabled  and you will be where you started.

So i am back to my original question
Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability.
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Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:43:32 +0530, Sriram J
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:  

> Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability.  but

If you find free software is not as usable as you would wish it
 to be, you have the  opportunity to improve the free software in
 question by scratching your itch.  This is how we get free software to
 start with.

manoj
-- 
An American's a person who isn't afraid to criticize the president but
is always polite to traffic cops.
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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[ilugd] Target audience of FOSS distros (was) Re: Linux webcam

[Sandip Bhattacharya]

Sriram J wrote:
> Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating
> system.
> who are target audience/consumers of linux supposed to be.
> 
> is it for the general users who want an alternative for windows or the few
> fakirs[1] who put ideology above all and are not willing to compromise at
> any cost.

In the long run, an OS based on ideology is better than one based on the
market. The market is more often than not skewed against customers. If
you call Windows as a hallmark for market drive development, look at how
its latest developments have been. "Market" forces ensured that Vista
was rewritten to satisfy MPAA/RIAA rather than the customers, causing
developments like SDP etc. in effect causing problems like [1]

[1] http://davisfreeberg.com/2008/01/03/bad-copp-no-netflix/

So beware before jumping to conclusions that market driven development
is necessarily better for customers.

There are many many examples for this:
In another case, market driven development caused Microsoft to stop
selling the perfectly usable Windows XP by this month end. It was only
when Vista boomeranged that they had to change their course [2]

[2]
http://www.news.com/Microsoft-extends-Windows-XPs-stay/2100-1016_3-6210524.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news

On the other hand, despite the "problem" in usability, there are scores
of instances when idealogy or technology based developments ensured that
FOSS distros gave more predictable and reliable support for users.

Debian's lifecycle policy[3] ensures that even after Etch was released
in 2007, Sarge(the old stable released in 2005) would keep getting
security releases till  2008. Of course, before jumping and comparing
with Windows XP, remember that XP is just an OS, while Debian is an
entire computing ecosystem.

[3] http://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan

Ubuntu has an LTS version [4] which  has a support cycle of five years!

[4] http://www.ubuntu.com/news/606released

Not counting Redhat whose commercial support cycle is upto 7 years! [5]

[5] http://www.redhat.com/security/updates/errata/

Yes, new hardware is always going to be a sore point for Linux, but
think of all the people who are using abandoned closed source distros
with no option to upgrade to a version which is maintained and keeps
them safe from known issues.

IMHO, the inconvenience of sticking to a smaller subset of known working
hardware is better than the inconvenience of sticking with an option
where your needs often do not match the dynamics of the market.

- Sandip



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Re: [ilugd] does this list have rules

[Anand Shankar]

On Jan 13, 2008 11:39 PM, Raj Mathur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sunday 13 Jan 2008, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> > On 13-Jan-08, at 12:16 PM, Ashish Shukla आशीष शुक्ल  wrote:
> > > Please read the list guidelines at http://kandalaya.org/ >
> > > guidelines.html  before posting to the list.
> >
> > that is the personal opinion of Rajkumar Mathur - is he the
> > arbitrator of this list?  (the page is still loading so I cannot say
> > more)
>
> No, those are the guidelines for participating in the ILUGD mailing
> list.  If you don't like them you're welcome to suggest amendments, but
> they remain the rules until enough people (not just one person) try to
> change them.
>

To be honest to both, KG is just asking that the set of rules you have
at kandalaya.org be posted in the ilugd mailing lists page. No body is
questioning rules of the mailing list - why this n why not this. They
exist, and let them exist on a ilugd url page.

anand
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Re: [ilugd] does this list have rules

[Raj Mathur]

On Sunday 13 Jan 2008, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> On 13-Jan-08, at 12:16 PM, Ashish Shukla आशीष शुक्ल  wrote:
> > Please read the list guidelines at http://kandalaya.org/ >
> > guidelines.html  before posting to the list.
>
> that is the personal opinion of Rajkumar Mathur - is he the 
> arbitrator of this list?  (the page is still loading so I cannot say 
> more)

No, those are the guidelines for participating in the ILUGD mailing 
list.  If you don't like them you're welcome to suggest amendments, but 
they remain the rules until enough people (not just one person) try to 
change them.

-- Raju
-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
 Freedom in Technology & Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/   ||   It is the mind that moves

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Re: [ilugd] does this list have rules [was] Re: [OT] Re: Linux webcam

[atul jha]

On Jan 13, 2008 12:00 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On 13-Jan-08, at 11:43 AM, Sudev Barar wrote:
>
> > @ALL: Trust KG to lead the thread to totally cross purposes than the
> > original.
>
> >>this is an insult.



> >>I personally am sick and tired of being insulted
> by the bosses of ilugd.

  ?


> >>Why do you not look at the thread to see who
> diverted it?
>
> > I thought many of us were aware of list rules
>
> >>what list rules? where are the list rules codified? In your
> imagination? Go to the page on ilugd website that deals with mailing
> lists - can you find anything about list rules? can you find anything
> at all except a long listing of dead lists?
>
> > . If you feel
> > something totally OT to original topic at least mark it OT or start a
> > new thread.
>
> >>have you started a new thread? - I have started one anyway ...
>
>
> --
> regards
>
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> Associate, NRC-FOSS
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
>
> Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/
>
>
>
>
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>

atul jha

-- 
www.atuljha.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [ilugd] does this list have rules [was] Re: [OT] Re: Linux webcam

[Sriram J]

+1.

On Jan 13, 2008 12:00 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On 13-Jan-08, at 11:43 AM, Sudev Barar wrote:
>
> > @ALL: Trust KG to lead the thread to totally cross purposes than the
> > original.
>
> this is an insult. I personally am sick and tired of being insulted
> by the bosses of ilugd. Why do you not look at the thread to see who
> diverted it?
>
> > I thought many of us were aware of list rules
>
> what list rules? where are the list rules codified? In your
> imagination? Go to the page on ilugd website that deals with mailing
> lists - can you find anything about list rules? can you find anything
> at all except a long listing of dead lists?
>
> > . If you feel
> > something totally OT to original topic at least mark it OT or start a
> > new thread.
>
> have you started a new thread? - I have started one anyway ...
>
>
> --
> regards
>
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> Associate, NRC-FOSS
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
>
> Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam

[Sriram J]

On Jan 12, 2008 7:38 PM, Karanbir Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sriram J wrote:
> >> Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating
> > system.
>
> There isnt one. There does not need to be one. Its used on devices as
> mobile phones to the largest supercomputer in the world. I think what
> you need to do is read up a bit on what Linux is and the whole idea of
> open source :D
>
> That is my point .
Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability.
but never mind my question has already been answered in this list.
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Re: [ilugd] [OT] Re: Linux webcam

[Sriram J]

On Jan 13, 2008 11:43 AM, Sudev Barar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> TOP:
> @ALL: Trust KG to lead the thread to totally cross purposes than the
> original. I thought many of us were aware of list rules. If you feel
> something totally OT to original topic at least mark it OT or start a
> new thread... 
>
> @Sriram J
> >  i myself back in the days  had to switch to windows because i bought an
> > unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one.
> >
>
> Back in those days windows licenses were ~8k and you had the money for
> that?
>
> Yes Linux is for general users and many are happy using it just as
> many times more are happy using win...that is another topic and
> thread.
>
> i need not have money for that as the the OS(CD) came with my branded  PC.
so please dont get into the linux is free as in free beer mode and start
questioning my finances.
even if i did need to buy it and i did buy it it is not your business to
question how i spend my money.
i find it very offensive that you should think i am lying when i said i
could not afford a new video card.
There is no need to be outright offensive to list readers.
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