Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On 05/26/2011 11:19 PM, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote: Hi, Someone have a Blackberry that they're not using and which they're willing to loan/rent out for a week or so? Clients are complaining about Blackberry issues on a mail server I've setup, and I need one to replicate and test. If not, how much would (a) a cheap Blackberry cost and (b) someone be willing to buy it for after I've done with it? :) On a different note, what kind of issues are your users facing on Blackberry? From what I've experienced, usually the users prefer the Blackberry services provided by the service providers such as Vodafone & Airtel. This means going on airtel's website, entering your server details and the username and password and it's instantly activated. This I've personally seen working flawlessly with both Courier and Dovecot (though dovecot is better), both with self signed SSL certificates. On the contrary, the apple devices create trouble if using self signed certificates. What's more, if your users are getting trouble connecting via the service provider's blackberry interface, then you can directly call up the service provider to assist. They may need the server name, username and password to test at their end. On the other hand, if there's some internal blackberry server, then I'm not too sure about that. But ideally the procedure should be the same. Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
> If not, how much would (a) a cheap Blackberry cost and Blackberry curve - 8520 aka Gemini 's prices has been slashed to 9,990 comes with OS 5.0 (b) someone be > willing to buy it for after I've done with it? :) You have to find a young user ( I see loads of young people people using BB now-a-days; not sure if they use BBService or not though) If you go back to the store to resell it, they will offer u as low as 3000. ( Experienced with Croma stores ) when I wanted to upgrade from 8520 to 8530. -- Srikrishna Das (krish at irc.freenode.net) ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
> On the other hand, if there's some internal blackberry server, then I'm not > too sure about that. But ideally the procedure should be the same. > If its an internal BB server, then you'll need to reset the user profiles (using BB PIN of users) or reset all users, re-provision the settings and then test. -- Srikrishna Das (krish at irc.freenode.net) ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Friday 27 May 2011, krish wrote: > > On the other hand, if there's some internal blackberry server, then > > I'm not too sure about that. But ideally the procedure should be > > the same. > > If its an internal BB server, then you'll need to reset the user > profiles (using BB PIN of users) or reset all users, re-provision the > settings and then test. Nope, it's the service provider's BB server. Regards, -- Raj -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Friday 27 May 2011, Vivek Kapoor wrote: > On a different note, what kind of issues are your users facing on > Blackberry? > > From what I've experienced, usually the users prefer the Blackberry > services provided by the service providers such as Vodafone & Airtel. > This means going on airtel's website, entering your server details > and the username and password and it's instantly activated. This > I've personally seen working flawlessly with both Courier and > Dovecot (though dovecot is better), both with self signed SSL > certificates. On the contrary, the apple devices create trouble if > using self signed certificates. > > What's more, if your users are getting trouble connecting via the > service provider's blackberry interface, then you can directly call > up the service provider to assist. They may need the server name, > username and password to test at their end. Since you ask the specific problem goes something like this: We've set up a mail server for the client. The server is handling two domains (say foo.com and bar.com). foo.com has one BB user, while bar.com has many BB users. The foo.com BB user (say ram) has accounts on both domains: r...@foo.com and r...@bar.com. Mail sent to r...@bar.com reflects immediately in the user's webmail, Outlook, couple of other mail clients AND his BB. Mail sent to r...@foo.com reflects immediately in the user's webmail, Outlook, couple of other mail clients, but NOT his BB. It may take anything from 15 seconds (acceptable) up to an hour (definitely not acceptable) to reach his BB. Note that the same server and the same software (and the same BB device on the same service provider, for that matter) are handling both scenarios. Some seriously weirdness going on here, and I've asked him to raise a ticket with the service provider (Vodafone, IIRC). Let's see what they say. In the meantime, I'm still looking for a BB to test this on :-) Regards, -- Raj -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
> > Mail sent to r...@foo.com reflects immediately in the user's webmail, > Outlook, couple of other mail clients, but NOT his BB. It may take > anything from 15 seconds (acceptable) up to an hour (definitely not > acceptable) to reach his BB. Sent from any domain? Even from foo.com, his own email - self test? If self test works immediately, then you should check sending email from some other domain where u have mailserver access and check logs for delay. I would also consider if any of the sending domain is greylisted. -- Srikrishna Das (krish at irc.freenode.net) ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On 05/27/2011 03:22 PM, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote: Mail sent to r...@bar.com reflects immediately in the user's webmail, Outlook, couple of other mail clients AND his BB. Mail sent to r...@foo.com reflects immediately in the user's webmail, Outlook, couple of other mail clients, but NOT his BB. It may take anything from 15 seconds (acceptable) up to an hour (definitely not acceptable) to reach his BB. From one of your previous emails related to the scenario you mentioned above, I infer that you're using Courier. Also, you are using IMAP instead of POP3 since your r...@bar.com receives mail instantly. There's an IMAP feature called IDLE which enables detection of incoming emails. So, as soon as an email comes, the client is intimated instantly - provided the client understands IMAP IDLE. However, from my experience, Courier's implementation of IMAP IDLE is not optimum. I've seen that the client is IMAP IDLE capable, and is connected but Courier doesn't intimate the client when a new email comes. Dovecot on the other hand implements it rather well. There could be a possibility that the blackberry's imap client with the service provider which is pulling mail from your server has established a connection but is not intimated by Courier that new mail has arrived. Either a flawed IMAP client or it's Courier. There's an ENHANCED IDLE mode too, but I am not sure if that'll make any difference. Moving to dovecot solved a lot of 'push' email concerns for me though. Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On 05/27/2011 12:01 PM, Vivek Kapoor wrote: There's an IMAP feature called IDLE which enables detection of incoming emails. So, as soon as an email comes, the client is intimated instantly that works for imap clients that support this sort of functionality. however, BB do not use imap natively, all email is routed via the BB app server ( which does the content get and content push ). The Push to device is dependant on the signal type being used by the cell provider ( which is why you cant use backberry services, unless activated by the provider ). That is my understanding on how things worked till about a year or so back, there have been quite a few updates from RIM in the mean time, so its possible they have a generic imap app on there too. But I thought it might be worth investigating. - KB ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On 05/27/2011 05:24 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: On 05/27/2011 12:01 PM, Vivek Kapoor wrote: There's an IMAP feature called IDLE which enables detection of incoming emails. So, as soon as an email comes, the client is intimated instantly that works for imap clients that support this sort of functionality. however, BB do not use imap natively, all email is routed via the BB app server ( which does the content get and content push ). The Push to device is dependant on the signal type being used by the cell provider ( which is why you cant use backberry services, unless activated by the provider ). I may have been a bit unclear. By referring to the IMAP client, I wasn't referring to the device itself. I was referring to the Blackberry Internet Service which the service providers such as Vodafone and Airtel provide to their blackberry customers. Via the service provider's web interface you can provide your own mail server's details and the BIS would pull the email from your server, I guess using an imap client, and push it to the blackberry devices. So it acts as an intermediary and alleviate the need for setting up your own blackberry server. I've not used Blackberry ever, so can't vouch for how it actually works. But have seen it being used by others, connecting to a mail server setup by me, so the comments based on that experience. A quick google search seems to suggest that Dovecot handles Blackberry better. Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On 05/27/2011 01:16 PM, Vivek Kapoor wrote: I may have been a bit unclear. By referring to the IMAP client, I wasn't referring to the device itself. I was referring to the Blackberry Internet Service which the service providers such as Vodafone and Airtel provide to their blackberry customers. ah ok, in which case IDLE wont help, the BIS instances dont support that till their 2010 Jan release ( or so the guy sitting next to me, who set this up for a 500K userbase says ). he also says that the expected poll frequency in the > Jan 2010 BIS instances is 15 to 120 minutes depending on capacity and load. post Jan 2010 it can be configured ( by the network operator) There is some IDLE support in these newer instances, but it seems that very few network operators run that at this time. ( just communicating what I'm being told ) - KB ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On 05/27/2011 05:12 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: he also says that the expected poll frequency in the > Jan 2010 BIS I meant pre Jan 2010 - KB ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Friday 27 May 2011, krish wrote: > > Mail sent to r...@foo.com reflects immediately in the user's > > webmail, Outlook, couple of other mail clients, but NOT his BB. > > It may take anything from 15 seconds (acceptable) up to an hour > > (definitely not acceptable) to reach his BB. > > Sent from any domain? Even from foo.com, his own email - self test? > If self test works immediately, then you should check sending email > from some other domain where u have mailserver access and check logs > for delay. > I would also consider if any of the sending domain is greylisted. Like I said, the mail reaches the server and is visible in all clients EXCEPT the BB immediately. If it were a generic e-mail issue it would affect all clients, right? Regards, -- Raj -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
[ilugd] (OT) Google shutting down translate and transliterate APIS
Google shutting down translate and transliterate APIS. Many Indic websites & applications will now be affected Read more here: http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2011/05/spring-cleaning-for-some-of-our-apis.html Looks like this is the right time for FOSS community to create their own APIs --Sudhanwa ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! web: www.sudhanwa.com blog: www.sudhanwa.in Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more. ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
2011/5/27 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) : [...] > Like I said, the mail reaches the server and is visible in all clients > EXCEPT the BB immediately. If it were a generic e-mail issue it would > affect all clients, right? Aren't most push email systems slow to update by design? I have tried both Nokia and Blackberry push mail systems and they take some time to update whenever a mail is received (upto several minutes). This might not be an issue as such. Has it actually reached 1 hour of delay? Even upto 10 minutes is expected delay. Or at least that has been my experience. --- Nandeep ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Friday 27 May 2011, Vivek Kapoor wrote: > On 05/27/2011 03:22 PM, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) > wrote: > > > Mail sent to r...@bar.com reflects immediately in the user's > > webmail, Outlook, couple of other mail clients AND his BB. > > > > Mail sent to r...@foo.com reflects immediately in the user's > > webmail, Outlook, couple of other mail clients, but NOT his BB. > > It may take anything from 15 seconds (acceptable) up to an hour > > (definitely not acceptable) to reach his BB. > > From one of your previous emails related to the scenario you > mentioned above, I infer that you're using Courier. Also, you are > using IMAP instead of POP3 since your r...@bar.com receives mail > instantly. That is correct. > There's an IMAP feature called IDLE which enables detection of > incoming emails. So, as soon as an email comes, the client is > intimated instantly - provided the client understands IMAP IDLE. > However, from my experience, Courier's implementation of IMAP IDLE > is not optimum. I've seen that the client is IMAP IDLE capable, and > is connected but Courier doesn't intimate the client when a new > email comes. I'd go with that, except for one datum: mail sent to the user's account on the other domain on the same server reaches his BB immediately. Figure that one out! In the meantime I'll see if the service provider mentions IMAP IDLE in their report. If they do, will disable it altogether if possible -- what with all the custom scripting et al, it's going to be painful to switch IMAP servers at this stage. (Which reminds me, need to upload those scripts somewhere.) Worst case scenario, will recommend setting all BB accounts to POP3 -- I presume that is possible? Or do RIM/service provider decide which protocol they will use on your behalf? Regards, -- Raj -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Fri, 27 May 2011 17:12:05 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote: > On 05/27/2011 01:16 PM, Vivek Kapoor wrote: >> I may have been a bit unclear. By referring to the IMAP client, I wasn't >> referring to the device itself. I was referring to the Blackberry >> Internet Service which the service providers such as Vodafone and Airtel >> provide to their blackberry customers. > > ah ok, in which case IDLE wont help, the BIS instances dont support that > till their 2010 Jan release ( or so the guy sitting next to me, who set > this up for a 500K userbase says ). > > he also says that the expected poll frequency in the < Jan 2010 BIS > instances is 15 to 120 minutes depending on capacity and load. post Jan Okay. I wasn't aware of that. However, what I have seen happening with blackberry users, in Delhi, India, with both Airtel and Vodafone is that they receive mails instantly - even before they pop-up in their Outlooks and Thunderbirds. There's not even a 15 second delay. I don't think BIS would be connecting to the server every few seconds (POP3ing or IMAPing - though have not checked the log), and the only possible explanation I can think of is IMAP IDLE, unless there's something else Blackberry is doing - maybe connecting to IMAP and kind of 'refreshing' the mailbox every few seconds. Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Fri, 27 May 2011 23:55:05 +0530, "Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)" wrote: > > I'd go with that, except for one datum: mail sent to the user's account > on the other domain on the same server reaches his BB immediately. > > Figure that one out! Do you have data available over an extended period of time that the user's other domain receives the email instantly each and every time? That shouldn't be the case unless there's some difference between other user accounts and that user's account on the Vodafone's blackberry interface. Are all the users facing it or just that single user? If it's just that single user, or only those users which have accounts on both the domains, then a dirty thing to do would be that on Vodafone's interface try entering the server for the first account via the domain name, and for the second account enter the IP address instead of the domain name. So we've two separate servers. Just a guess though :-) > In the meantime I'll see if the service provider mentions IMAP IDLE in > their report. If they do, will disable it altogether if possible -- > what with all the custom scripting et al, it's going to be painful to > switch IMAP servers at this stage. (Which reminds me, need to upload > those scripts somewhere.) As Karanbir said, IMAP IDLE may not be the issue. I just mentioned it because I saw a significant improvement using dovecot instead of courier, both on my Nokia and email clients - Thunderbird specifically. That's the only sort of 'push mail' mechanism available with dovecot and courier from what I know. > Worst case scenario, will recommend setting all BB accounts to POP3 -- I > presume that is possible? Or do RIM/service provider decide which > protocol they will use on your behalf? Not sure if that's possible. I just checked with the guy who used to configure blackberries via the service providers web interface and he mentioned that blackberry does that automatically - you can't specify the servers. In any case, going POP3 would put a delay - it would possibly be a periodic exercise which would mean there's not going to be any more instant emails. Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Saturday 28 May 2011, Vivek Kapoor wrote: > Okay. I wasn't aware of that. However, what I have seen happening > with blackberry users, in Delhi, India, with both Airtel and > Vodafone is that they receive mails instantly - even before they > pop-up in their Outlooks and Thunderbirds. There's not even a 15 > second delay. I don't think BIS would be connecting to the server > every few seconds (POP3ing or IMAPing - though have not checked the > log), and the only possible explanation I can think of is IMAP IDLE, > unless there's something else Blackberry is doing - maybe connecting > to IMAP and kind of 'refreshing' the mailbox every few seconds. Just to make it more interesting, here's a message that keeps popping up from time to time in the mail logs: LOGIN FAILED, user=r...@foo.com, ip=[:::178.239.83.191] The IP belongs to RIM, UK. However, the user still receives mails addressed to r...@foo.com on his BB from time to time. I mean, WTF? Regards, -- Raj -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] [OFF-TOPIC] Looking to loan/rent Blackberry
On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:13:48 +0530, "Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)" wrote: > > Just to make it more interesting, here's a message that keeps popping up > from time to time in the mail logs: > > LOGIN FAILED, user=r...@foo.com, ip=[:::178.239.83.191] > > The IP belongs to RIM, UK. > > However, the user still receives mails addressed to r...@foo.com on his > BB from time to time. > > I mean, WTF? Haha, this is interesting. BTW, wasn't the user supposed to be ram1.foo.com in your case instead of r...@foo.com? Are there two profiles created in Vodafone's blackberry interface for that user? Again, is it only one user that's facing this issue? Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
