[ilugd] FOSS/Hindi/Aliens/Ballu/Code/iLugd
Hi, I was not aware of the fact that my 'small' email(reply) will ignite a fire around the mailing-list...where we talk about 'FOSS'. I have looked into every response and would like to add 'something'. I don't know how this mail gonna be relevant to list/topic/FOSS etcetera. Lets talk about Hindi, first: I have completed my study up to 10th standard in 'Hindi only' and i had not seen a computer before/till 10th. After completion of my B.Tech in Computers, I didn't find any reason to code in 'Hindi'. May I be wrong? Well, the scenario says something else. I put my Linux machine at my home in a small 'village...where people know only Hindi'. Most of them had never seen computer before(like me). But when i told them in 'Hindi' how to operate, they were able to do small things like gaming, painting, music, etcetera. Some of them, even, didn't know to write their names in Hindi/English, but know very well how to put 'password' into machine. That shows how they people are compatible with 'technology'. I believe in the fact that a 'meduim' is always required to flow 'anything' (refer Einstein) . Here, the 'medium' is 'language' (either Hindi or English) and the 'matter' is 'technology'. So, I must say we should take these two things in two different ways. However I have no hard feeling towards 'Localization', in fact, I have been working on Urdu Localization(from JMI/Sarai). Now lets observe the facts: Case 1. When both medium and technology are in 'English'. (people are local) Work-done = work (to understand the medium) + work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = most/??? Time = lesser Case 2. When medium is 'local' and technology is in 'English'. (people are local) Work-done = work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = most/lesser Time = least Case 3. When both are 'local' Work-done = work (to convert the technology into 'local' medium) + work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = ???/most Time = most Note : Case '3' will behave like case '1' after some 'effort'. Here, No one can say 'this or that' is always towards in right direction. Thus, I think I can conclude that 'we' should think about the overall technological development to face the future problems/bugs. Thanks Regards, Devesh. P.S. : It will help us to cope with Aliens in future. ;) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] FOSS/Hindi/Aliens/Ballu/Code/iLugd
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:44 PM, devesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I was not aware of the fact that my 'small' email(reply) will ignite a fire around the mailing-list...where we talk about 'FOSS'. I have looked into every response and would like to add 'something'. I don't know how this mail gonna be relevant to list/topic/FOSS etcetera. Lets talk about Hindi, first: I have completed my study up to 10th standard in 'Hindi only' and i had not seen a computer before/till 10th. After completion of my B.Tech in Computers, I didn't find any reason to code in 'Hindi'. May I be wrong? Well, the scenario says something else. I put my Linux machine at my home in a small 'village...where people know only Hindi'. Most of them had never seen computer before(like me). But when i told them in 'Hindi' how to operate, they were able to do small things like gaming, painting, music, etcetera. Yes My dear, I am totally word to word agree to your mail. I have focused on these points in my last mail, * writing software with hindi/bangla keywords in not a useful task and will make gap between us. * making software with hindi interrface may be useful to some papulation but still they can work with english interface software, provide we have given good teaching to them. * but Making content (in hindi or Hinglish) which tell how to use computer as tool will be best for all such Indian, Our major foucs should be over the 3rd point. Think computer as tool. Think again on our direction of effort. We have limited effort and time. Some of them, even, didn't know to write their names in Hindi/English, but know very well how to put 'password' into machine. That shows how they people are compatible with 'technology'. I believe in the fact that a 'meduim' is always required to flow 'anything' (refer Einstein) . Here, the 'medium' is 'language' (either Hindi or English) and the 'matter' is 'technology'. Even my nephew can openrate computer at some level, and he do not know english, And I saw, one desktop manager in hindi,. For working with hidni Deskhop, I need to take a hindi to english dictionary . Those Hindi words were very difficult for me and nobody use in common language .. what will you say now, having such localized software is useful?? My nephew work mostly on compyter by the help of indentifying icons.. How a text matter in the case we are highly addictive to GUI. So, I must say we should take these two things in two different ways. However I have no hard feeling towards 'Localization', in fact, I have been working on Urdu Localization(from JMI/Sarai). Now lets observe the facts: Case 1. When both medium and technology are in 'English'. (people are local) Work-done = work (to understand the medium) + work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = most/??? Time = lesser Case 2. When medium is 'local' and technology is in 'English'. (people are local) Work-done = work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = most/lesser Time = least I will prefer to go with case 2 / 1 but not case 3 Case 3. When both are 'local' Work-done = work (to convert the technology into 'local' medium) + work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = ???/most Time = most Note : Case '3' will behave like case '1' after some 'effort'. Here, No one can say 'this or that' is always towards in right direction. Thus, I think I can conclude that 'we' should think about the overall technological development to face the future problems/bugs. Thanks Regards, Devesh. -- ┌───[ Narendra Sisodiya ]──┐ │ http://narendra.techfandu.org │ │ http://www.lug-iitd.org │ └[ +91-93790-75930 ]──┘ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] FOSS/Hindi/Aliens/Ballu/Code/iLugd
Hi, 2008/9/23 narendra sisodiya [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * writing software with hindi/bangla keywords in not a useful task and will make gap between us. What is this gap you are talking about? * making software with hindi interrface may be useful to some papulation but still they can work with english interface software, provide we have given good teaching to them. Err? Why? I have met so many Germans, who use only German UI. Infact, my very good friend who is on this list even, uses a German UI since he learnt some German some months back. In case you were not aware, they even have slightly modified keyboard for their umlaut. I have seen Koreans using KDE translated in Korean. I have seen Karunkar using Hindi UI, Runa Bangla UI, Kartik using Gujarati UI. Ravi blogs only in Hindi afaics. Sri Ramadoss just finished translating complete works for RMS in to Tamil. SMC is flighting to make sure every bit of computing is done in Malayalam. Oh and guess what - they comprise of people ranging from a student to a farmer. I kid you not. KDE 4.1 translation for Malayalam was done by a farmer along with many others. You really think, he will tell his family, villagers, fellow farmers to use computers in English? Btw, now afaik, they are now translating GNOME into Malayalam to make it to the impending release. * but Making content (in hindi or Hinglish) which tell how to use computer as tool will be best for all such Indian, Err? What is basis of this statement? I am quite sure there are many who can't read/write Hindi. Probably you mean, content in local languages, then I am all for it anyway. And I saw, one desktop manager in hindi,. For working with hidni Deskhop, I need to take a hindi to english dictionary . Those Hindi words were very difficult for me and nobody use in common language .. what will you say now, having such localized software is useful?? But that is your problem. Not the person who knows the native language well. As I said, some one somewhere deep in one corner of India, appreciates the localised software. And I gave ample examples, look around you carefully, you might find more people doing the same. My nephew work mostly on compyter by the help of indentifying icons.. How a text matter in the case we are highly addictive to GUI. Who is we here? Cheers! Pradeepto -- The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org KDE India : http://www.kde.in Mailing List : http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] FOSS/Hindi/Aliens/Ballu/Code/iLugd
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Pradeepto Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, 2008/9/23 narendra sisodiya [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * writing software with hindi/bangla keywords in not a useful task and will make gap between us. What is this gap you are talking about? * making software with hindi interrface may be useful to some papulation but still they can work with english interface software, provide we have given good teaching to them. Err? Why? I have met so many Germans, who use only German UI. Infact, my very good friend who is on this list even, uses a German UI since he learnt some German some months back. In case you were not aware, they even have slightly modified keyboard for their umlaut. I have seen Koreans using KDE translated in Korean. I have seen Karunkar using Hindi UI, Runa Bangla UI, Kartik using Gujarati UI. Ravi blogs only in Hindi afaics. Sri Ramadoss just finished translating complete works for RMS in to Tamil. SMC is flighting to make sure every bit of computing is done in Malayalam. Oh and guess what - they comprise of people ranging from a student to a farmer. I kid you not. KDE 4.1 translation for Malayalam was done by a farmer along with many others. You really think, he will tell his family, villagers, fellow farmers to use computers in English? Btw, now afaik, they are now translating GNOME into Malayalam to make it to the impending release. * but Making content (in hindi or Hinglish) which tell how to use computer as tool will be best for all such Indian, Err? What is basis of this statement? I am quite sure there are many who can't read/write Hindi. Probably you mean, content in local languages, then I am all for it anyway. Yes, I was focusing that , we should have content creation and tutorials making in native local language for the English GUI software (like OpenOffice , firefox) at first priority. Language is not a barrier for them, barrier is no body is their for teaching them And I saw, one desktop manager in hindi,. For working with hidni Deskhop, I need to take a hindi to english dictionary . Those Hindi words were very difficult for me and nobody use in common language .. what will you say now, having such localized software is useful?? But that is your problem. Not the person who knows the native language well. As I said, some one somewhere deep in one corner of India, appreciates the localised software. And I gave ample examples, look around you carefully, you might find more people doing the same. I not 100 % opposing localization, It is targetted to large audience. But it is not that much important task for which we have to make a openoffice clone in every language and make a docuentation in each local language, I told we have limited effort and time. we* = anyone who promote foss culture My nephew work mostly on compyter by the help of indentifying icons.. How a text matter in the case we are highly addictive to GUI. Who is we here? Cheers! Pradeepto I am quiting from the talk..Better we can end this talk. Somehow you are unable to understand what I wanted to say !! -- ┌───[ Narendra Sisodiya ]──┐ │ http://narendra.techfandu.org │ │ http://www.lug-iitd.org │ └[ +91-93790-75930 ]──┘ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] FOSS/Hindi/Aliens/Ballu/Code/iLugd
2008/9/23 narendra sisodiya [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes, I was focusing that , we should have content creation and tutorials making in native local language for the English GUI software (like OpenOffice , firefox) at first priority. Language is not a barrier for them, barrier is no body is their for teaching them Can you understand a chinese software if we tell you once where are the menus in a video tutorial ? No Get out of your brain and try thinking like a guy for whom A , B , C, D are strange characters like for you a chinese character And I saw, one desktop manager in hindi,. For working with hidni Deskhop, I need to take a hindi to english dictionary . Those Hindi words were very difficult for me and nobody use in common language .. what will you say now, having such localized software is useful?? But that is your problem. Not the person who knows the native language well. As I said, some one somewhere deep in one corner of India, appreciates the localised software. And I gave ample examples, look around you carefully, you might find more people doing the same. Exactly, if you were not able to work on a hindi platform that`s your shortcoming not the software`s I not 100 % opposing localization, It is targetted to large audience. But it is not that much important task for which we have to make a openoffice clone in every language and make a docuentation in each local language, I told we have limited effort and time. we* = anyone who promote foss culture Wow, Do you know that with localization we are trying to reach 72% of Indian Population ? And Do you have any idea how much money govt put per year in Localization ? -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] FOSS/Hindi/Aliens/Ballu/Code/iLugd
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:44 PM, devesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lets talk about Hindi, first: I have completed my study up to 10th standard in 'Hindi only' and i had not seen a computer before/till 10th. After completion of my B.Tech in Computers, I didn't find any reason to code in 'Hindi'. May I be wrong? Because you can write in english very well and that`s shown by your email *YOU ARE NOT TARGET AUDIENCE OF HINDAWI* So, I must say we should take these two things in two different ways. However I have no hard feeling towards 'Localization', in fact, I have been working on Urdu Localization(from JMI/Sarai). Now lets observe the facts: Case 1. When both medium and technology are in 'English'. (people are local) Work-done = work (to understand the medium) + work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = most/??? Time = lesser Case 2. When medium is 'local' and technology is in 'English'. (people are local) Work-done = work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = most/lesser Time = least Case 3. When both are 'local' Work-done = work (to convert the technology into 'local' medium) + work ( to understand the technology) Throughput = ???/most Time = most Note : Case '3' will behave like case '1' after some 'effort'. Hmm, Can i have a pointer somewhere for the authenticity of this case study ? -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
