Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming ( drifting OT here... )
Karanbir Singh wrote: Yashpal Nagar wrote: I don't know how is the redhat support in India but in UK it is not so. I dont agree :) We work with Redhat people onsite ( in the UK ) and even on remote setups - and i can assure you, they are some of the best techies to have on your side when things break :) I don't know what how does it relevent of comparing a RHEL techies onsite and a RHEL support via call. As far as i know you are entitled to get telephonic support from Redhat once you have bought a license, getting a support onsite seems to be a special arrangement with Redhat. I am sorry if i could't understand its meaning. with the RHEL trial version and the subscription version ( specially during the trial period ). And I've never had more of an issue than just transferring the rhn entitlements over to new machines or new versions when they come out. It is more than one month now, IIRC redhat provided evaluation copy of RHEL which we used and provided our existining RHN account to get them under a single logon. That is also quite an interesting statement - SuSe has , by far, had the best support setup inhouse for years and years, I remember talking to people back in 2000 - 2001 and getting kernel patches out from them overnight to handle specific issues. While this has *significantly* gone down in recent years, its not really that bad, to be completely written off. And a lot of that talent has moved into VAR's and associated business post Novel, should you want, I am happy to put you in touch with some of them. shameless plug perhaps you need someone to come in and manage the setup for you ? if you let me know where you are based and what setup you have, I'd be happy to trot along with a quote /plug I believe it is a perception which get developed when you work with someone, I must admit i have been too much aggresive putting comments on SUSE support, I should have taken some more time to understand how they(novell network) work/responds. It was resolved painlessly. As far as the setups are concerned, No, We are not looking someone to manage them rather looking someone to give their setups ;) You will actually find that Gora's initial response was in your real interest - mailing lists are not a real substitute for a support contract - even when you might sometimes get a faster response here ( hey, IRC will beat mailing lists hands down on speed of response ) - but when you have a supported platform, your first call should always be to the people supporting it. Not only is it their responsibility, they will ( or should ) have a process-to-resolution recommendation / execution plan. Depending on the situation, not adhering to that p-2-r plan will invalidate your support even. btw, if you really are having so many issues with your support providers and having to live off the handholding and spoonfeeding in the lists, why bother paying redhat / suse / mandriva at all ? and go the CentOS route - You can bring in local talent and feed the open source ecosystem a lot better. All is ok, what you are saying, there are only two concerns. 1. How does the people behave when they see someone's post in the mailing list, for which the answer might be very obvious or the respondent feels, why this silly question is being asked. They takes no time to comment on the question being asked or arrogantly say something to kill the discussion. Is't this negligence? I need not to supply you a example here, you see the comments from Gora's email. 2. Second and more important one is there are all types of people in the list, Gurus, Intermediate and Novice. Its good to have Gurus on the list but what could happen to list if they start behaving arrogant? I am not talking about this particular thread, i have experienced few others of similar type and thought to raise it this time. e.g what happens if someone ask what is a hosts file? I can bet there would be many in the list who would start bashing on him/her. Is't this kind of behaviour dangerous for community especially for community like GNU/Linux, whose base is on Freedom! I don't know how do you feel about this, but i could't resist myself to respond. I felt somewhere some thinking is wrong for the list. Regards Yashpal -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) - against HTML email X vCards / \ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming ( drifting OT here... )
On 6/3/07, Yashpal Nagar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All is ok, what you are saying, there are only two concerns. 1. How does the people behave when they see someone's post in the mailing list, for which the answer might be very obvious or the respondent feels, why this silly question is being asked. They takes no time to comment on the question being asked or arrogantly say something to kill the discussion. Is't this negligence? I need not to supply you a example here, you see the comments from Gora's email. 2. Second and more important one is there are all types of people in the list, Gurus, Intermediate and Novice. Its good to have Gurus on the list but what could happen to list if they start behaving arrogant? I am not talking about this particular thread, i have experienced few others of similar type and thought to raise it this time. e.g what happens if someone ask what is a hosts file? I can bet there would be many in the list who would start bashing on him/her. Is't this kind of behaviour dangerous for community especially for community like GNU/Linux, whose base is on Freedom! blame it on the search engines!.. ever since they started giving near required answer/solution.. asking on the list has never been the same.. so its become kind of expected that one has searched for the solution a bit then asked unable to find any suitable info through search... so asking 'what is a hosts file' on google getting answers in seconds is kind of simpler than asking on a list and waiting few mins/hrs for a response.. offcourse the 'RTFM' has already been kind of forgotten since the engines came!.. Karunakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming ( drifting OT here... )
Quoting G Karunakar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2. Second and more important one is there are all types of people in the list, Gurus, Intermediate and Novice. Its good to have Gurus on the list but what could happen to list if they start behaving arrogant? I am not talking about this particular thread, i have experienced few others of similar type and thought to raise it this time. e.g what happens if someone ask what is a hosts file? I can bet there would be many in the list who would start bashing on him/her. Is't this kind of behaviour dangerous for community especially for community like GNU/Linux, whose base is on Freedom! blame it on the search engines!.. ever since they started giving near required answer/solution.. asking on the list has never been the same.. so its become kind of expected that one has searched for the solution a bit then asked unable to find any suitable info through search... so asking 'what is a hosts file' on google getting answers in seconds is kind of simpler than asking on a list and waiting few mins/hrs for a response.. offcourse the 'RTFM' has already been kind of forgotten since the engines came!.. or you could try to join more friendly lists like mumbai or chennai - much more off topic stuff there, but no one will bite your head off ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming
Gora Mohanty wrote: I would like to say that it should be incumbent on people asking for help to first exhaust easier avenues. FOSS support is a perennial problem, and if you have paid for the RHEL OS, you should demand quality support from Redhat. After all, you have paid *them* money, and you should deman your money's worth. By and large, I see Redhat as one of the best avenues for support in India, and we should hold their feet to the fire in this regard. Asking about any free distribution--- CentOS, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, etc.---is another matter. Truely said, that the people who supports enterprise class linux first need to speak to the principle vendor. But the problem is Redhat is not the creator of linux, its community! I don't know how is the redhat support in India but in UK it is not so. Lastly, I have been chasing them to update their own subcription databases and then they said to wait since they follow everything with US technical team, which is again a not less then a week project. Finally redhat give us trial version of RHEL which then later linked to licensed copy of RHEL. See the pain here is we paid the licenses months ago but we end up installing nearly 15 boxes with trial version of RHEL. Same is the case with SUSE support, vendors/retailers take their money and gone! For them it is a very minute issue if some license does't work,or some problem is there. What i feel is ok, you take support from Redhat/SUSE but at the same time, a person should't loose his right to discuss such problems in public forums unless it is meant only for FOSS. Regards Yashpal -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) - against HTML email X vCards / \ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming ( drifting OT here... )
Yashpal Nagar wrote: I don't know how is the redhat support in India but in UK it is not so. I dont agree :) We work with Redhat people onsite ( in the UK ) and even on remote setups - and i can assure you, they are some of the best techies to have on your side when things break :) Also, the issue you had was covered quite well in general documentation about the product you are using. Lastly, I have been chasing them to update their own subcription databases and then they said to wait since they follow everything with US technical team, which is again a not less then a week project. Finally redhat give us trial version of RHEL which then later linked to licensed copy of RHEL. See the pain here is we paid the licenses months ago but we end up installing nearly 15 boxes with trial version of RHEL. I really cant parse this Also, i didnt realise there was something different with the RHEL trial version and the subscription version ( specially during the trial period ). And I've never had more of an issue than just transferring the rhn entitlements over to new machines or new versions when they come out. Same is the case with SUSE support, vendors/retailers take their money and gone! For them it is a very minute issue if some license does't work,or some problem is there. That is also quite an interesting statement - SuSe has , by far, had the best support setup inhouse for years and years, I remember talking to people back in 2000 - 2001 and getting kernel patches out from them overnight to handle specific issues. While this has *significantly* gone down in recent years, its not really that bad, to be completely written off. And a lot of that talent has moved into VAR's and associated business post Novel, should you want, I am happy to put you in touch with some of them. shameless plug perhaps you need someone to come in and manage the setup for you ? if you let me know where you are based and what setup you have, I'd be happy to trot along with a quote /plug What i feel is ok, you take support from Redhat/SUSE but at the same time, a person should't loose his right to discuss such problems in public forums unless it is meant only for FOSS. You will actually find that Gora's initial response was in your real interest - mailing lists are not a real substitute for a support contract - even when you might sometimes get a faster response here ( hey, IRC will beat mailing lists hands down on speed of response ) - but when you have a supported platform, your first call should always be to the people supporting it. Not only is it their responsibility, they will ( or should ) have a process-to-resolution recommendation / execution plan. Depending on the situation, not adhering to that p-2-r plan will invalidate your support even. btw, if you really are having so many issues with your support providers and having to live off the handholding and spoonfeeding in the lists, why bother paying redhat / suse / mandriva at all ? and go the CentOS route - You can bring in local talent and feed the open source ecosystem a lot better. - KB -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 12:25 +0100, Yashpal Nagar wrote: [...] I will refrain from responding to these arguments, as people have done so at length. What i feel is ok, you take support from Redhat/SUSE but at the same time, a person should't loose his right to discuss such problems in public forums unless it is meant only for FOSS. Um, maybe my original remark might have been construed to mean as if I were saying that you had no right to post here, but I certainly did not mean it that way. The point is that people here are less likely to be familiar with RHEL, as compared to free distributions, and, if they are, they are probably getting paid good money to support it. Paid FOSS support has a model of its own, which, in my opinion, is what commercial companies should be looking to foster. Finally, you have paid good money to these people, and if I were you, and unhappy with the level of support, I would be calling them all kinds of names, and asking for my money back rather than depending on free support. I imagine that you are aware of this, but it is free as in freedom: Mukta, not mufta. Regards, Gora ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming
Gora Mohanty wrote: On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 21:23 +0100, Yashpal Nagar wrote: Hi list On a RHEL 4.0 , 64bit OS, I have noticed that few of the package name ^^^ I do believe that Redhat paid support is just around the corner. Thanks gora for your email. do you think that you have told a new idea to the subscriber of Redhat to ask from Redhat ? Redhat support i feel is not that easy/informatice as you think. It is most likely that you end up speaking to a person who is trained to help at very basic level. On the same time i found mailing lists more informative than any customer care and it is quick. You reply is oppressive, I dont' know how newbies feel... Cheers! Yashpal ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) - against HTML email X vCards / \ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yashpal Nagar wrote: do you think that you have told a new idea to the subscriber of Redhat to ask from Redhat ? Redhat support i feel is not that easy/informatice as you think. It is most likely that you end up speaking to a person who is trained to help at very basic level. On the same time i found mailing lists more informative than any customer care and it is quick. It would be nice feedback if you could take up instances of where Red Hat tripped up on support and make that available to Red Hat (with ticket # etc) Meanwhile, http://www.redhat.com/magazine/009jul05/features/multilib/ is perhaps what you are looking at. You reply is oppressive, I dont' know how newbies feel... I'd rather fancy Gora saying in his way if you paid for RHEL, ensure that you get support you are entitled to and he'd be right. :Sankarshan - -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGXWQlXQZpNTcrCzMRAttbAKDAc82eTCZzyT/LRMdEh7H7+a/OrQCfYUIh CpuUj8c+1Txpewm4I8UIqcc= =99f5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote: RedHat tripped up on support and make that available to Red Hat (with ticket # etc) Meanwhile, http://www.redhat.com/magazine/009jul05/features/multilib/ is perhaps what you are looking at. It would be nice feedback if you could take up instances of where Red Thanks Sankarshan, this is good help. This article is great! Regards Yashpal -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) - against HTML email X vCards / \ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming
On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 12:35 +0100, Yashpal Nagar wrote: [...] You reply is oppressive, I dont' know how newbies feel... I don't know about oppressive, because I have no more of a special right on this list, as compared to anyone else. However, you are right in that this was an unhelpful, off-the-cuff, and somewhat snide reply, and I apologise. Sankarshan has already followed up, describing the essence of what I was trying to say. At the same time, without qualifying my apology, I would like to say that it should be incumbent on people asking for help to first exhaust easier avenues. FOSS support is a perennial problem, and if you have paid for the RHEL OS, you should demand quality support from Redhat. After all, you have paid *them* money, and you should deman your money's worth. By and large, I see Redhat as one of the best avenues for support in India, and we should hold their feet to the fire in this regard. Asking about any free distribution--- CentOS, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, etc.---is another matter. Regards, Gora P.S. Needless to say, I have *no* financial connection with Redhat. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Weird RPM naming
Hi list On a RHEL 4.0 , 64bit OS, I have noticed that few of the package name for libraries etc are same for 32bit arch and 64 bit in rpm database. e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED] tmp]# rpm -qa|grep xorg-x11-devel xorg-x11-devel-6.8.2-1.EL.18 xorg-x11-devel-6.8.2-1.EL.18 [EMAIL PROTECTED] tmp]# rpm -qa|grep xorg-x11-libs xorg-x11-libs-6.8.2-1.EL.13.36 xorg-x11-libs-6.8.2-1.EL.18 xorg-x11-libs-6.8.2-1.EL.18 xorg-x11-libs-6.8.2-1.EL.13.36 [EMAIL PROTECTED] tmp]# These redundant names are because one is for 32 bit and second for 64 bit arch. Now if someone install them manually i.e one after the other, rpmdb complains saying you already have that package and you left with no other option than using --force for these installation. is't this weird or they are purposefuly like that? Regards Yashpal -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) - against HTML email X vCards / \ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Weird RPM naming
On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 21:23 +0100, Yashpal Nagar wrote: Hi list On a RHEL 4.0 , 64bit OS, I have noticed that few of the package name ^^^ I do believe that Redhat paid support is just around the corner. for libraries etc are same for 32bit arch and 64 bit in rpm database [...] Regards, Gora ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
