Re: [ilugd] Linux command-line introduction
http://en.flossmanuals.net/gnulinux I'll try not to criticize the article too heavily, but there seem to be some glaring mistakes. 1. Further, you can schedule scripts to occur at a specific time or date or at the occurrence of a specific event on your computer Bad example. How does cron, at, or anacron have anything to do with CLI? I can ask it to play a track in Amarok. 2. Ever tried to do anything remotely like that by using a Graphical User Interface? Firstly, you haven't quoted any mindblowing examples of CLI functionality that cannot be done using GUI. Scheduling? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of graphical schedulers/ sophisticated alarms for Linux. Batch resizing images? Gimp comes with a scripting language called Script-Fu which can easily do this. More and more applications (yes, GUI applications) are coming out with extensibility and scripting frameworks. I just quoted Gimp as one example. AutoCAD uses a dialect of Lisp as its extension language, and the elephant in the room Emacs is mostly written in Emacs Lisp. A shell scripting language like ZSH's is no different- it's a language, that's all. 3. There are many commands you can use to check every facet of your computer's health, from the amount of space left on the hard drive to the temperature of the CPU I wouldn't cite this as something that you can do from the command line. It's like saying that `df -h' or `cat cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/temperature' is more useful than a graphical monitor like Conky or GNOME applets that do the same thing. 4. There is one other interesting feature of command line interfaces that GUIs can't match: interaction over a network. I'm pretty sure there are hundreds of remote desktop projects for Linux. Forget all that: I use `ssh -X' all the time. I don't want users to have the impression that they can't run their graphical applications over the network. 5. Well, those that know how can connect to the computer in the next room via the command line and type halt. Bad example. If you're looking to get Windoze converts, this'll give them the completely wrong picture. They'd expect something like the remote desktop they use in Windoze to `Start Shutdown'. The worst part is that such a remote desktop exists, but you're scaring away/ misguiding users by telling them this. 6. GUI programs often send more error messages to the CLI, than they show in dialog boxes, this is useful to diagnose problems Er. If you're looking to diagnose why a certain program didn't start when you clicked a menu item, it's useful. But otherwise, no- it's useless. Many programs today come with a compile flag to generate a stripped down verbose executable for debugging. The output to CLI of a normally compiled graphical application is practically useless- you see, it's an optimization technique; if you keep tracing and printing useful debugging symbols from the program, it's going to slow down significantly. On a closing note, I think your approach of creating this huge barrier between CLI and GUI, and advocating the use of CLI is just plain wrong. Instead, you should be embracing both worlds (Yes, that's the word used in the article- GUI and CLI are apparently worlds apart), and concentrate on writing something useful. p.s- There's a reason all newbie Linux tutorials suck. They're written by beginners themselves. Experts can't be bothered to write one. Yes, it's a problem; but I see no solution ahead until people stop writing `cookbooks' of new Linux commands. -- Artagnon (.com) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux command-line introduction
p.s- There's a reason all newbie Linux tutorials suck. They're written by beginners themselves. Experts can't be bothered to write one. Yes, it's a problem; but I see no solution ahead until people stop writing `cookbooks' of new Linux commands. I would appreciate if you would have spent the same effort in suggesting improvements with actual examples as you put in writing this holy bible. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux command-line introduction
On Wednesday 24 Jun 2009, Ramkumar R wrote: http://en.flossmanuals.net/gnulinux I'll try not to criticize the article too heavily, but there seem to be some glaring mistakes. It's written in 2 days as a collaborative effort on the 'net, and it's open for anyone to enhance and correct, so please go ahead and make whatever changes you think are necessary to make it more appropriate. Though I do believe that some of the points you have brought up aren't valid, or only valid from a specific point of view, but that's just my opinion. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux command-line introduction
p.s- There's a reason all newbie Linux tutorials suck. They're written by beginners themselves. Experts can't be bothered to write one. Yes, it's a problem; but I see no solution ahead until people stop writing `cookbooks' of new Linux commands. Well, it seems you are quite interested in writing a good tutorial, that supposingly bring the so called GAP between CLI and GUI closer... We would presumably think that these are your personal opinions and we truly respect the work by the writer, atleast even if we consider(which is not so) that examples are bad, they tell the usage and some good mischiefs of command line. Regards. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux command-line introduction
Er. I'm a GNU/Linux user myself and it is in my interest to see that the community produces good work and grows. Please don't take my criticism of the Introduction section in the wrong sense- I'm not trying to be a snob and trash the pieces of work that the community produces. Ofcourse, a huge amount of effort has gone into compiling this work. Needless to say, I appreciate the work that has gone into preparing this. All I'm doing is listing a few of my observations on the Introduction section. I'm sorry if I seem overly critical or condescending. About my p.s, I'll maintain that newbie Linux tutorials suck. It's like I criticize GIt cheatsheets- they don't teach you a thing about Git, but supposedly claim to get you up and working in a few minutes. They exist because there's a demand for them. It's difficult to write good books- I passed out of school three years ago and I know what it is to be brought up being taught Turbo C++ from Sumita Arora. And then being taught C again in first year of college using books like Let us C. They exist because it's a quick-and-dirty route- students don't want to break their heads over KR, they simply want to pass the exam. My point is simple: I think there's a better way to teach the user how to user Linux. Use my email as an excuse to produce more pure and less `cookbook' work. I hope you'll use this example as an inspiration- I wrote it in my first year of college to teach my friends pointers in C: http://artagnon.com/static/cellophanesheet.pdf Best wishes. -- Artagnon (.com) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux command-line introduction
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Ramkumar R artag...@gmail.com wrote: [Er] I'm a GNU/Linux user myself and it is in my interest to see that the community produces good work and grows. Please don't take my criticism of the Introduction section in the wrong sense- I'm not trying to be a snob and trash the pieces of work that the community produces. Ofcourse, a huge amount of effort has gone into compiling this work. Needless to say, I appreciate the work that has gone into preparing this. All I'm doing is listing a few of my observations on the Introduction section. I'm sorry if I seem overly critical or condescending. About my p.s, I'll maintain that newbie Linux tutorials suck. It's like I criticize GIt cheatsheets- they don't teach you a thing about Git, but supposedly claim to get you up and working in a few minutes. They exist because there's a demand for them. It's difficult to write good books- I passed out of school three years ago and I know what it is to be brought up being taught Turbo C++ from Sumita Arora. And then being taught C again in first year of college using books like Let us C. They exist because it's a quick-and-dirty route- students don't want to break their heads over KR, they simply want to pass the exam. My point is simple: I think there's a better way to teach the user how to user Linux. Use my email as an excuse to produce more pure and less `cookbook' work. I hope you'll use this example as an inspiration- I wrote it in my first year of college to teach my friends pointers in C: http://artagnon.com/static/cellophanesheet.pdf Thanks for clearing it up. Then you must also understand that if you are murdering then prepare to be killed in return. Yes there are better ways to teach people and if its not being done there is no point in acting all high and mighty about it by just posting reviews and claiming to be a source of inspiration. After your first review (which could have been gentler) you could just very well go and contribute it yourself rather than writing the second reply or wait until someone actually improves it. Claiming that advanced users cannot be bothered to is adding just another elitist attitude to quite a few out there. The point: You will not seem like a source of inspiration when your mails make you look like a jerk. While your intentions are good, please convey them properly. You are not the only one who is busy but still trying to contribute. Thanks but no thanks Nandeep ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux command-line introduction
Thanks but no thanks *sigh* I'm not even sure what I've done to deserve this sort of hostility, and being personally attacked by Nandeep. In response to a Best wishes, I get this. Frankly, I don't know who's being the jerk. I also humbly apologize for posting the one article that I thought I wrote well, which for some reason, made me sound like a God almighty that everyone should derive inspiration from. I don't like being where I'm not wanted. I'm unsubscribing from this mailing list, effective immediately. -- Artagnon (.com) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
