Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-10 Thread COCCORP

In a message dated 9/9/09 11:06:22 PM, dantear...@gmail.com writes:


 I donno.  I'd like to think there will be at least one interestingly
 new gizmo available before we all get borged.
 

...before?

4 of Adjuct 17, formerly known as Craig W.

You Will Be Assimilated
- me/us(!)

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-09 Thread Jarett DeAngelis

I dunno, man.  I think there is a lot of room for innovation in the  
space between this drive for cost-cutting and the re-architecture  
response the industry is producing.

I also think you and I would make for a good G4 talk show :D

--  
Jarett T. DeAngelis, MS
Sr. IT Support Engineer
Distributed Support Services, College of Arts and Letters
Office of Information Technology
938 Flanner Hall
University of Notre Dame

On Sep 8, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Malcolm O'Brien  
malcolmo2...@hotmail.com wrote:


 The next ten years in computing will be very interesting  :)

 Now THAT I disagree with. It hasn't been interesting since the  
 plethora
 of 8-bits and the introduction of the Amiga. That said, the only thing
 since that qualified was OS X.

 And thank God for flat panels. But the next 10 years? BORING! Boring  
 but
 cheap.
 -- 
 Malcolm
 800MHz 17 flat panel iMac running Leopard

 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-09 Thread Malcolm O'Brien

 I think there is a lot of room for innovation in the  
 space between this drive for cost-cutting and the re-architecture  
 response the industry is producing.

No doubt. I just don't find that interesting. Expectable, predictable, 
virtually certain. zzz

 I also think you and I would make for a good G4 talk show :D

Line up a sponsor and count me in! ;)
-- 
Malcolm
800MHz 17 flat panel iMac running Leopard

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-08 Thread Malcolm O'Brien

 So the user feels ripped off

I'm starting to think that none of you were around when the expression 
was coined.

Ripped off means: They took your money and gave you NOTHING (or 
something that appeared to be something valuable but which turned out to 
be worthless).

We're going into your pockets to give you something you neither want 
nor need is extortion.
-- 
Malcolm
800MHz 17 flat panel iMac running Leopard

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-08 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:

 Personally, I'm waiting for the future Apple processors that will
 replace the Intel chips. Since Apple bought a chip maker about 18  
 months
 ago, I'm hoping they are getting close to releasing them soon.


Don't hold your breath...Apple bought that company for their expertise  
in making small devices: the chips from them are geared towards future  
iPhone models, not future Macs.

Why on EARTH do you think Apple would switch their architecture  
*again*? Intel is working out quite well for them.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-08 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Malcolm O'Brien wrote:

 I'm starting to think that none of you were around when the expression
 was coined.

 Ripped off means: They took your money and gave you NOTHING (or
 something that appeared to be something valuable but which turned  
 out to
 be worthless).

 We're going into your pockets to give you something you neither want
 nor need is extortion.


Here are the products we sell, buy them, don't buy them, it's up to  
you is called commerce.

Yet again, we rational people are left explaining that the release of  
a new version of the OS neither turns your old one into a pumpkin nor  
means that Steve Job's hand-picked Apple Retail Ninjas will come to  
your house and force you at katana point to buy the new version.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-08 Thread Kyle Hansen

On 9/8/09 10:12 AM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Broadcast
into the ether:

 Steve Job's hand-picked Apple Retail Ninjas will come to
 your house and force you at katana point to buy the new version.

Yeah, I think he upgraded the ninja's.  I woke up and it was just installed
the day it was released.  I don't know how that happened. ;-)

--Kyle Hansen



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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-08 Thread Jarett DeAngelis

Call me crazy, but I think ARM is the future of computing.  ARM is a  
much more sensible ISA than x86 or even PPC, and we keep seeing more  
and more powerful ARM chips come out every year.  Meanwhile, everyone  
is porting everything they can to it.

Picture ten years down the road: 2GHz ARM chips with large amounts of  
instruction-level parallelism, out-of-order execution, etc.  It would  
be a formidable chip and probably blow x86 out of the water clock for  
clock (and more importantly, performance/price).

--  
Jarett T. DeAngelis, MS
Sr. IT Support Engineer
Distributed Support Services, College of Arts and Letters
Office of Information Technology
938 Flanner Hall
University of Notre Dame

On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote:


 At 10:04 AM -0700 9/8/2009, Bruce Johnson wrote:
 On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:
 Personally, I'm waiting for the future Apple processors that will
 replace the Intel chips. Since Apple bought a chip maker about 18
 months ago, I'm hoping they are getting close to releasing them
 soon.

 Don't hold your breath...Apple bought that company for their
 expertise in making small devices: the chips from them are geared
 towards future iPhone models, not future Macs.

 Perhaps.  Depends on the design direction they take.

 Why on EARTH do you think Apple would switch their architecture
 *again*? Intel is working out quite well for them.

 Some of us have high hopes for Apple.  And it bugs the heck out of us
 to see Apple with a ball and chain around its neck.  They've
 obviously done a lot of work with OS X to get it to function on
 multiple platforms - ppc, intel-x86, arm.  We want to see what the
 future holds - when Apple gets around to taking performance
 seriously.  I'd give my left leg to have a Power7 rack running OS X,
 eg.

 - Dan.
 -- 
 - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-08 Thread Dennis B. Swaney

Bruce Johnson wrote:
 
 On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:
 
 Personally, I'm waiting for the future Apple processors that will
 replace the Intel chips. Since Apple bought a chip maker about 18  
 months
 ago, I'm hoping they are getting close to releasing them soon.
 
 
 Don't hold your breath...Apple bought that company for their expertise  
 in making small devices: the chips from them are geared towards future  
 iPhone models, not future Macs.
 

OK. But from little acorns, mighty oaks grow

 Why on EARTH do you think Apple would switch their architecture  
 *again*? Intel is working out quite well for them.
 

So they are NOT dependent on an outside supplier who can cause problems
for Apple's future plans? Besides, Apple has switched TWICE now, how can
you say they WON'T do it again?

-- 
Sincerely,
Dennis B. Swaney

Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
... oh, never mind.


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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-08 Thread Jarett DeAngelis

I'd agree with you except that there is some writing on the wall that  
makes me think ARM will continue to be an increasing threat.  We're  
now reaching the stage where we blur the line between mobile and  
laptop/desktop OSes.  Android runs on everything these days.  Apple  
ported OS X to run on ARM.  We have laptops that run ARM chips.  Etc.

The next ten years in computing will be very interesting :)

--  
Jarett T. DeAngelis, MS
Sr. IT Support Engineer
Distributed Support Services, College of Arts and Letters
Office of Information Technology
938 Flanner Hall
University of Notre Dame

On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Bruce Johnson  
john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:



 On Sep 8, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Jarett DeAngelis wrote:


 Picture ten years down the road: 2GHz ARM chips with large amounts of
 instruction-level parallelism, out-of-order execution, etc.  It would
 be a formidable chip and probably blow x86 out of the water clock for
 clock (and more importantly, performance/price).

 You deeply underestimate Intel, I expect.

 Ten years down the line Intel will have advanced as far, too.
 EVERYTHING will be much more powerful.

 Historically, people (including me!) were saying the exact same thing
 about Intel with the advent of RISC, of the PPC, of AMD, and here we
 are with Intel on the top of the performance, price and usage pile.

 Still.

 AMD has come close, but Intel's move to 45nm really let them move
 ahead of AMD.

 Yes, you can get some high performance POWER chips. But IBM doesn't
 want to make them so you can run a laptop off of them.

 The staggering rate of performance increase of Macs since the Intel
 switch is proof enough to me that Apple chose the right track.

 -- 
 Bruce Johnson
 University of Arizona
 College of Pharmacy
 Information Technology Group

 Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-07 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:


 The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
 want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
 upgrade my operating system. Apple is the new Microsoft.



HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh my...you've never dealt with Which of the seven versions of Vista  
do you want  Microsoft, have you??

ROFL (and btw, no, you can't just install the update anyway, like you  
can with Apple.)

Apple is selling to 10.4 users the equivalent of iLife 09, iWork 09,  
10.5 and 10.6 ($316 total retail value) for $169, and not even  
enforcing that.

If they sold it the way they normally did, they'd be charging $129 for  
the OS alone.

And 10.4 users would be whinging about how Apple's ripping them off  
instead of just charging $29 like the 10.5 upgrade, and is the New  
Microsoft.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai,  PhD


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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-07 Thread Jonathan Rowson
Why would you categorize it as a ripoff? It's a ripoff if the product being
sold is totally overpriced for what you get, NOT if it's not what you want.
Remember, value for money is the key. Don't forget that the Boxed Set is NOT
a requirement for upgrading. The Boxed Set is ONLY if you NEED iLife, iWork
AND Leopard.
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Dennis B. Swaney ro...@aol.com wrote:


 Elliott Price wrote:
  Yup, that about sums it up. Apple figures that if you never bought
  Leopard, then you never paid the $130 for it, and therefore should buy
  the way more expensive Box set Snow Leopard.
  It'll upgrade Tiger anyways, though, so I don't know how they're going
  to enforce this...
 

 The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
 want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
 upgrade my operating system. Apple is the new Microsoft.

 --
 Sincerely,
 Dennis B. Swaney

 Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
 ... oh, never mind.

 



-- 
__
Jonathan D. Rowson, M.D.

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-07 Thread Elliott Price
It would be a rip-off if only the keycode from the box set worked for  
upgrading from Tiger. But there are no keycodes, so the $30 single  
user CD will upgrade from Tiger, and also install on as many Macs as  
you can get your hands on. Legality is the only issue there. That's  
not a rip-off, 10.6 is totally worth $30, if only for Quicktime X, and  
I believe upgrading to Quicktime Pro used to be about the same. ($30)  
Plus you get speed and performance increases throughout the whole OS. :)
By the way, this is a really strange thread...


-Elliott Price
Mac Computer Repair - Santa Barbara
Graphic Design - Artwork Setup
Websites - Low Cost Custom Websites

On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:41 AM, Jonathan Rowson wrote:

 Why would you categorize it as a ripoff? It's a ripoff if the  
 product being sold is totally overpriced for what you get, NOT if  
 it's not what you want. Remember, value for money is the key. Don't  
 forget that the Boxed Set is NOT a requirement for upgrading. The  
 Boxed Set is ONLY if you NEED iLife, iWork AND Leopard.

 On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Dennis B. Swaney ro...@aol.com  
 wrote:

 Elliott Price wrote:
  Yup, that about sums it up. Apple figures that if you never bought
  Leopard, then you never paid the $130 for it, and therefore should  
 buy
  the way more expensive Box set Snow Leopard.
  It'll upgrade Tiger anyways, though, so I don't know how they're  
 going
  to enforce this...
 

 The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
 want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
 upgrade my operating system. Apple is the new Microsoft.

 --
 Sincerely,
 Dennis B. Swaney

 Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
 ... oh, never mind.





 -- 
 __
 Jonathan D. Rowson, M.D.

 


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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-07 Thread Dennis B. Swaney

Jonathan Rowson wrote:
 Why would you categorize it as a ripoff? It's a ripoff if the product 
 being sold is totally overpriced for what you get, NOT if it's not what 
 you want. Remember, value for money is the key. Don't forget that the 
 Boxed Set is NOT a requirement for upgrading. The Boxed Set is ONLY if 
 you NEED iLife, iWork AND Leopard.
 


Scenario:

User has Mac OS 10.4.11 installed on his ICBM.
User for whatever reason has never acquired a copy of Mac OS 10.5.x. 
User does NOT need iLife or iWork.
User wants to install Mac OS 10.6 on his ICBM.

Apple offers the following:
A. Mac OS 10.6 standalone for those who currently have Mac OS 10.5.x; 
Cost $29.00.

B. Boxed Set of Mac OS 10.6 AND iLife AND iWork; Cost $169.00.

If the user buys A and installs it on the ICBM, then the user has 
performed an illegal act according to Apple.

If the user buys B and installs Mac OS 10.6 on the ICBM, then the user 
is legal in Apple's eyes, but had to spend an extra $140 for something 
the user did NOT need or want. So the user feels ripped off

The obvious solution would to have the standalone Mac OS priced at $29 
for Mac OS 10.5.x users, $99 for Mac OS 10.4.x users, and then the 
boxed set for those that wanted iLife/iWork in addition.

Our user in this scenario could buy the boxed set and then sell the 
iLife and iWork for $70 each to get back the $140, or the user can, as 
has been mentioned, just get the standalone package, install it on the 
ICBM and tell Apple to kma

Fortunately, I DO have Mac OS 10.5.x installed on my PowerBook, so I 
bought 3 copies of 10.6 at $25.00 each. 1 I'm keeping for future use, 
(after I get an Intel laptop), and the other 2 are for my sister and 
brother.

-- 
Sincerely,
Dennis B. Swaney

Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is 
... oh, never mind.

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Ryan Waldon

That does appear to be the case. Although to do so would be a  
violation of the EULA...

--ryan

Sent from my iPod Touch

On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:30, Bill Spencer wspen...@jhu.edu wrote:


 Hi there: I am hearing rumors that the $29 disk will install on any
 Intel Mac, regardless of whether there's a previous installation of
 Leopard.  Anybody know if that's true?

 ***

 Bill Spencer in Maryland
 IMac Core Duo 2.4 ghz/1 g RAM/Snow Leopard
 IMac Core Duo 1.83 ghz/1 g RAM/Tiger
 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Elliott Price

Yup, that about sums it up. Apple figures that if you never bought  
Leopard, then you never paid the $130 for it, and therefore should buy  
the way more expensive Box set Snow Leopard.
It'll upgrade Tiger anyways, though, so I don't know how they're going  
to enforce this...


-Elliott Price
Mac Computer Repair - Santa Barbara
Graphic Design - Artwork Setup
Websites - Low Cost Custom Websites

On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Ryan Waldon wrote:


 That does appear to be the case. Although to do so would be a
 violation of the EULA...

 --ryan

 Sent from my iPod Touch

 On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:30, Bill Spencer wspen...@jhu.edu wrote:


 Hi there: I am hearing rumors that the $29 disk will install on any
 Intel Mac, regardless of whether there's a previous installation of
 Leopard.  Anybody know if that's true?

 ***

 Bill Spencer in Maryland
 IMac Core Duo 2.4 ghz/1 g RAM/Snow Leopard
 IMac Core Duo 1.83 ghz/1 g RAM/Tiger


 


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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Elliott Price
Well, like we all pointed out, you don't have to. There's still no  
keycodes, either.


-Elliott Price
Mac Computer Repair - Santa Barbara
Graphic Design - Artwork Setup
Websites - Low Cost Custom Websites

On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:


 Elliott Price wrote:
 Yup, that about sums it up. Apple figures that if you never bought
 Leopard, then you never paid the $130 for it, and therefore should  
 buy
 the way more expensive Box set Snow Leopard.
 It'll upgrade Tiger anyways, though, so I don't know how they're  
 going
 to enforce this...


 The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
 want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
 upgrade my operating system. Apple is the new Microsoft.

 -- 
 Sincerely,
 Dennis B. Swaney

 Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
 ... oh, never mind.

 


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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Janice F. Jorgensen

anyone done the 29 dollar install on their tiger?

Janice F. Jorgensen

- Original Message - 
From: Dan dantear...@gmail.com
To: imaclist@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?



 At 9:31 AM -0700 9/6/2009, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:

The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
upgrade my operating system.

 I agree.

Apple is the new Microsoft.

 No.  MS sets their pricing based on monopoly abuse and feeling good
 about being evil, all the way to the bank.  Apple does this under
 Jobs direction because L'billionare just doesn't care.

 - Dan.
 -- 
 - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

 
 


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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Jarett DeAngelis

Protip: Apple is a hardware company.  I certainly don't have any moral  
qualms about using my SL disc to do a clean install on a Tiger  
machine.  The alternative is frankly stupid.

--  
Jarett T. DeAngelis, MS
Sr. IT Support Engineer
Distributed Support Services, College of Arts and Letters
Office of Information Technology
938 Flanner Hall
University of Notre Dame

On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Elliott Price callmemrp...@gmail.com  
wrote:


 Yup, that about sums it up. Apple figures that if you never bought
 Leopard, then you never paid the $130 for it, and therefore should buy
 the way more expensive Box set Snow Leopard.
 It'll upgrade Tiger anyways, though, so I don't know how they're going
 to enforce this...


-Elliott Price
 Mac Computer Repair - Santa Barbara
 Graphic Design - Artwork Setup
 Websites - Low Cost Custom Websites

 On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Ryan Waldon wrote:


 That does appear to be the case. Although to do so would be a
 violation of the EULA...

 --ryan

 Sent from my iPod Touch

 On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:30, Bill Spencer wspen...@jhu.edu wrote:


 Hi there: I am hearing rumors that the $29 disk will install on any
 Intel Mac, regardless of whether there's a previous installation of
 Leopard.  Anybody know if that's true?

 ***

 Bill Spencer in Maryland
 IMac Core Duo 2.4 ghz/1 g RAM/Snow Leopard
 IMac Core Duo 1.83 ghz/1 g RAM/Tiger





 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Jarett DeAngelis

IMO the best way to do this is a clean install.  It works on Tiger,  
but it's not designed for it.

Back up your data, insert disc, start machine, fire up Disk Utility,  
reformat, install.  :)

--  
Jarett T. DeAngelis, MS
Sr. IT Support Engineer
Distributed Support Services, College of Arts and Letters
Office of Information Technology
938 Flanner Hall
University of Notre Dame

On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Janice F. Jorgensen janicejorgen...@charter.net 
  wrote:


 anyone done the 29 dollar install on their tiger?

 Janice F. Jorgensen

 - Original Message -
 From: Dan dantear...@gmail.com
 To: imaclist@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 12:58 PM
 Subject: Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?



 At 9:31 AM -0700 9/6/2009, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:

 The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
 want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
 upgrade my operating system.

 I agree.

 Apple is the new Microsoft.

 No.  MS sets their pricing based on monopoly abuse and feeling good
 about being evil, all the way to the bank.  Apple does this under
 Jobs direction because L'billionare just doesn't care.

 - Dan.
 -- 
 - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.





 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Ryan Waldon

ATT is the reason why I don't have an iPhone. Based on my usage of  
and experience with my iPod Touch, I'm quite sure I would love the  
iPhone's hardware and interface. But I'm not willing to downgrade both  
my wireless connectivity and customer service by going from Sprint to  
ATT...

--ryan

Sent from my iPod Touch

On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:31, Dennis B. Swaney ro...@aol.com wrote:


 Elliott Price wrote:
 Yup, that about sums it up. Apple figures that if you never bought
 Leopard, then you never paid the $130 for it, and therefore should  
 buy
 the way more expensive Box set Snow Leopard.
 It'll upgrade Tiger anyways, though, so I don't know how they're  
 going
 to enforce this...


 The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
 want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
 upgrade my operating system. Apple is the new Microsoft.

 -- 
 Sincerely,
 Dennis B. Swaney

 Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
 ... oh, never mind.

 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Gary Fortman

And this relates to SL how?

Sent from my eyeFone

On Sep 6, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Ryan Waldon ryanwaldon2...@gmail.com  
wrote:


 ATT is the reason why I don't have an iPhone. Based on my usage of
 and experience with my iPod Touch, I'm quite sure I would love the
 iPhone's hardware and interface. But I'm not willing to downgrade both
 my wireless connectivity and customer service by going from Sprint to
 ATT...

 --ryan

 Sent from my iPod Touch

 On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:31, Dennis B. Swaney ro...@aol.com wrote:


 Elliott Price wrote:
 Yup, that about sums it up. Apple figures that if you never bought
 Leopard, then you never paid the $130 for it, and therefore should
 buy
 the way more expensive Box set Snow Leopard.
 It'll upgrade Tiger anyways, though, so I don't know how they're
 going
 to enforce this...


 The box set is a ripoff because it contains software that I DON'T
 want; I should not be required to buy unwanted applications just to
 upgrade my operating system. Apple is the new Microsoft.

 -- 
 Sincerely,
 Dennis B. Swaney

 Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
 ... oh, never mind.



 

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Re: Snow Leopard from Tiger...?

2009-09-06 Thread Dennis B. Swaney

I know! I know!  Snow Leopard, the iPhone and the iTouch are all made by 
Apple. ;)


Gary Fortman wrote:
 And this relates to SL how?
 
 Sent from my eyeFone
 
 On Sep 6, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Ryan Waldon ryanwaldon2...@gmail.com  
 wrote:
 
 ATT is the reason why I don't have an iPhone. Based on my usage of
 and experience with my iPod Touch, I'm quite sure I would love the
 iPhone's hardware and interface. But I'm not willing to downgrade both
 my wireless connectivity and customer service by going from Sprint to
 ATT...



-- 
Sincerely,
Dennis B. Swaney

Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is 
... oh, never mind.

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