Re: Two WLANs or One?
Everything is fine. iBook plays with Time Capsule. Setup is both AirPort boxes cabled to Verizon Router which is set for DHCP and WiFi turned OFF, both boxes in Bridge mode, and Time Capsule set with File Sharing ON via AirPort Utilities Disk button. But I am embarrassed that the AirPort Express was not set to Bridge mode as I had said earlier. I just relied on my son's assurance on that without checking myself. Hmmm, can't always trust those IT people, eh? Before discovering the error, he spent about 20 minutes on this with the iBook and iMac side by side, doing Terminal voodoo with sudos, looking at IP addresses, and pings, all to verify that the setups were not okay. While explaining things to me, he mentioned that he does this Terminal stuff half his work day. Again, thanks for the advice and support. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
good thing macs are so intuitive or this might have taken days to resolve On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Al Poulin alfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: Everything is fine. iBook plays with Time Capsule. Setup is both AirPort boxes cabled to Verizon Router which is set for DHCP and WiFi turned OFF, both boxes in Bridge mode, and Time Capsule set with File Sharing ON via AirPort Utilities Disk button. But I am embarrassed that the AirPort Express was not set to Bridge mode as I had said earlier. I just relied on my son's assurance on that without checking myself. Hmmm, can't always trust those IT people, eh? Before discovering the error, he spent about 20 minutes on this with the iBook and iMac side by side, doing Terminal voodoo with sudos, looking at IP addresses, and pings, all to verify that the setups were not okay. While explaining things to me, he mentioned that he does this Terminal stuff half his work day. Again, thanks for the advice and support. Al Poulin -- -- NOT sent from an iphone,blackberry,Nokia, or any handheld. -- I'm a PC(x86 AND ppc) AND I RUN LINUX!!! Linux is like ice cream. It comes in many flavors and everyone has their favorite, but we all get the same smile regardless of which we choose to scoop. - Rodney Dangerfield http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/34019.html - I haven't spoken to my wife in years. I didn't want to interrupt her. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Al Poulin wrote: Bruce: I slept on this, literally! Anyway, I was hoping something like your explanation would work out. But as implied in my original post (and I just verified it again), the G4 iBook on WLAN B cannot see the Time Capsule via AirPort. The iBook does fine with Time Machine via its Ethernet connection to the Verizon router. When I rearrange boxes on a book shelf, I will physically connect the iBook to the Time Capsule. Well, refreshed in the morning myself, I have an idea. Looking at the Time Capsule manual, they don't mention this, but imply that you have to connect to the Time Capsule (set up as a normal wireless router) to use it for backup. So, I believe your solution is this: --Internet--[Verizon Router]---[TC (as router)]---(ethernet)--- [Air.Exp. (as bridge to TC)] Set up your Time Capsule as a router, (the default mode) to serve addresses to your local network, it will route all the clients to the Verizon router for internet access, and the Airport Express will then connect via ethernet to one of the LAN ports on the TC instead of the Verizon box. The Airport Express is set up in bridged mode, as it is now, no changes will be needed beyond a restart, I expect. This will make the network managed by the TC as the LAN for all your client systems, and I think this should work for letting you use a wireless system on the AE use the TC for backups. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Al Poulin alfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 23, 7:02 pm, Ryan Waldon ryanwaldon2...@gmail.com wrote: Yes they are. The Macs and the Linux box can all see each, and interact. My wife's Vista rig is a different story... Thanks, Ryan. Perhaps your 802.11g network is also set to work in the 802.11b standard, or do you have some sort of file sharing going on between the two networks? Al Poulin Yes, you are correct. I set up the system that way because my iBook and my Palm are 802.11b capable only. When I ended up with an extra router (a 1st gen, AirPot Express) it occurred to me to try it as a way of preserving the speed of my 802.11g network. --ryan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 24, 11:38 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: So, I believe your solution is this: --Internet--[Verizon Router]---[TC (as router)]---(ethernet)--- [Air.Exp. (as bridge to TC)] Set up your Time Capsule as a router, (the default mode) to serve addresses to your local network, it will route all the clients to the Verizon router for internet access, and the Airport Express will then connect via ethernet to one of the LAN ports on the TC instead of the Verizon box. I recabled Airport Express to the Time Capsule router which uses DHCP. The Airport Express is set up in bridged mode, as it is now, no changes will be needed beyond a restart, I expect. Restarted Macs and unplugged/replugged power to Airport Express and TC. This will make the network managed by the TC as the LAN for all your client systems, and I think this should work for letting you use a wireless system on the AE use the TC for backups. That was a nice hope, but the iBook on WLAN B still does not see the TC for backup on WLAN A. And when the Intel iMac is on WLAN B, it does not see the TC for backup either. But both get to the Internet no matter what cabling configuration I try. The iMac is fine when I select WLAN A in AirPort. By the way, I recabled the AP Express to the Verizon router, so that it and the TC are peers again. And I turned the Verizon WiFi on, using DHCP. That makes no change. So I still need to find new settings for the AirPort boxes. I sent my original post to my son living out of town. When I talked with him, in two seconds he said we need to let the Verizon router do the DHCP to the client machines, just as you indicated in your first answer to me. But to put this generic plan in motion, he wants to get into my AirPort Utility on his next visit to adjust settings in the TC and AP Express. Maybe in a day or so. Will let you know. Maybe I'll give up on this and just run one WLAN with the TC set to 802.11, both g and n, in the 2.4 GHz band, giving up the advantages of the 5GHz band for the faster machines. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 12:28 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Jun 23, 2009, at 7:03 AM, Al Poulin wrote: Both are set at WPA2 Personal. Both access Internet in separate Bridge mode via a Verizon router which has Coax connection to Verizon's FiOS fiber/coax conversion box (Optical Network Terminal- ONT) outside the house. Verizon router's WiFi (802.11b/g) is turned off. The best way to do this is to set the Airports to NOT pass out IP addresses but let the Verizon router upstream do it. This way they're wireless segments of the same LAN. This is an option in the Airport setup. Thank you Bruce, I think I know what you are saying. Both Airports are set for DHCP to the client machines, but I think you are saying the Verizon router should do that, correct? It is already set for DHCP, so I only need to turn on its WiFi. Also, would that force me to run the Time Capsule at the slower 802.11g instead of n? On the Airport side, would I be changing the setting in Connection Sharing, or doing something with SNMP? If in Connection Sharing, do I select Share a public IP address instead of the Off (Bridge Mode) setting? If I am close to understanding you, why is is best to make the change? Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 12:34 pm, Ryan Waldon ryanwaldon2...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Al Poulin alfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: Can I run two wireless local networks or should I merge all functions into one WiFi 802.11g/n net? I run two WLANs at my house with a similar set-up. I have a 802.11g network for my MacBook, eeePC 900, iPod Touch and my wife's Vista laptop. We also have a 802.11b network for my G3 Dual USB iBook and my Palm TX. Works great with few to no problems... Hello Ryan: In your setup, are the machines on one WLAN able to work wirelessly with machines on the other? Thanks, Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Al Poulin wrote: On Jun 23, 12:28 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Jun 23, 2009, at 7:03 AM, Al Poulin wrote: Both are set at WPA2 Personal. Both access Internet in separate Bridge mode via a Verizon router which has Coax connection to Verizon's FiOS fiber/coax conversion box (Optical Network Terminal- ONT) outside the house. Verizon router's WiFi (802.11b/g) is turned off. The best way to do this is to set the Airports to NOT pass out IP addresses but let the Verizon router upstream do it. This way they're wireless segments of the same LAN. This is an option in the Airport setup. Thank you Bruce, I think I know what you are saying. Both Airports are set for DHCP to the client machines, but I think you are saying the Verizon router should do that, correct? It is already set for DHCP, so I only need to turn on its WiFi. Well you don't need to use the Wifi, if the airports are connected via ethernet? How do the Airport's connect to the Verizon router? Ideally your wifi network should look like this: ---Internet---[verizon router](wired connection)===[Airports] ))) [clients] This gets you fast connections on your backbone. Also, would that force me to run the Time Capsule at the slower 802.11g instead of n? No. That's determined by what clients are connected. On the Airport side, would I be changing the setting in Connection Sharing, or doing something with SNMP? No. Not SNMP. This is in the section about getting addresses, so it will mention DHCP. I'm not completely familiar with the interface, since my airports are the old UFO style which don't work with the new Airport setup software. I believe they call this bridge mode. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Al Poulinalfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: Can I run two wireless local networks or should I merge all functions into one WiFi 802.11g/n net? Buy a airport base station, it does what you want to do in one simple unit. See: http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/features/frequency.html. -- Best Regards, John Musbach --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 2:00 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: Well you don't need to use the Wifi, if the airports are connected via ethernet? How do the Airport's connect to the Verizon router? Ideally your wifi network should look like this: ---Internet---[verizon router](wired connection)===[Airports] ))) [clients] That is the setup, via Ethernet. But my question revolves around being able to let iTunes sync seamlessly between machines of one network (802.11n) with devices (iPod Touch) on the other network (802.11g). On the Airport side, would I be changing the setting in Connection Sharing, or doing something with SNMP? No. Not SNMP. This is in the section about getting addresses, so it will mention DHCP. I'm not completely familiar with the interface, since my airports are the old UFO style which don't work with the new Airport setup software. I believe they call this bridge mode. As I mentioned in my original post, we are in bridge mode. To elucidate the interface, the Connection Sharing setting has three options: Share a public IP address Distribute a range of IP addresses Off (Bridge Mode) The relevant paragraph in the Apple design document says: Â If you don’t want your wireless device to share its IP address, choose “Off (Bridge Mode).” If you set up your device in bridge mode, AirPort computers have access to all services on the Ethernet network, and the device does not provide Internet sharing services. See “You’re Using an Existing Ethernet Network” on page 36 for more information about setting up your wireless device as a bridge. (page 29 of Designing AirPort Networks Using AirPort Utility Mac OS X v10.5 + Windows http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Designing_AirPort_Networks_10.5-Windows.pdf Thanks again Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Al Poulin wrote: ---Internet---[verizon router](wired connection)===[Airports] ))) [clients] That is the setup, via Ethernet. But my question revolves around being able to let iTunes sync seamlessly between machines of one network (802.11n) with devices (iPod Touch) on the other network (802.11g). Ahh, now I understand. Does not matter. iTunes and iPod don't care at all what transport underlies the TCP/IP network. Your 'network' in this instance is everything connected back to the Verizon router...your Airport devices are acting as wireless switches, not routers in this setup. (Routers connect different networks, switches connect different parts of a single network.) Your overall speed between any two nodes on the network will be limited by the slowest link, so the 802.11g will slow things down, but the 802.11n base station is connected to the network via 100 megabit ethernet..it will talk to your iPod at 802.11g speeds, but anything connected to it will talk to the internet at 802.11n speeds (actually whatever speed your internet is at, as even 802.11b networks can go faster than the average residential internet connection) The only times that you'll slow down a wireless station is when the faster and slower device are connected to the same base station, here you're connecting on two different segments of your LAN, so it's ok. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 3:39 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: iTunes and iPod don't care at all what transport underlies the TCP/IP network. Your 'network' in this instance is everything connected back to the Verizon router...your Airport devices are acting as wireless switches, not routers in this setup. (Routers connect different networks, switches connect different parts of a single network.) Your overall speed between any two nodes on the network will be limited by the slowest link, so the 802.11g will slow things down, but the 802.11n base station is connected to the network via 100 megabit ethernet..it will talk to your iPod at 802.11g speeds, but anything connected to it will talk to the internet at 802.11n speeds (actually whatever speed your internet is at, as even 802.11b networks can go faster than the average residential internet connection) The only times that you'll slow down a wireless station is when the faster and slower device are connected to the same base station, here you're connecting on two different segments of your LAN, so it's ok. Bruce: I slept on this, literally! Anyway, I was hoping something like your explanation would work out. But as implied in my original post (and I just verified it again), the G4 iBook on WLAN B cannot see the Time Capsule via AirPort. The iBook does fine with Time Machine via its Ethernet connection to the Verizon router. When I rearrange boxes on a book shelf, I will physically connect the iBook to the Time Capsule. To be more clear, I should have stated in my original post that the Time Capsule (2008) is the base station for WLAN A and that the Airport Express is the base station for WLAN B. So, to partially repeat my original post: QUOTE: WLAN A: 802.11n only (5 GHz) to maximize throughput for iMac and MacBook. Want to reset Apple TV to this net. WLAN B: 802.11g (2.4GHz) for G4 iBook, two iPod Touches, son's iPhone and his business secure laptop PC. Currently handles Apple TV. Both are set at WPA2 Personal. Both access Internet in separate Bridge mode via a Verizon router which has Coax connection to Verizon's FiOS fiber/coax conversion box (Optical Network Terminal- ONT) outside the house. Verizon router's WiFi (802.11b/g) is turned off. I want the iBook to work seamlessly with Time Capsule. My wife needs to sync MacBook and iMac iTunes with Apple TV and iPod Touch. Are there ways to set up these machines and accessory devices for these functions with the two separate networks? Or is it best to put it all under the Time Capsule? UNQUOTE I believe all machines and devices would work well in one WLAN with the Time Capsule base station set for both 802.11g and 802.11n in the 2.4GHz band. But there I lose the speed advantage for the Intel iMac and the MacBook in having their dedicated 802.11n network in the 5GHz band. As things stand now, the MacBook can work with the iPod Touch on one network and must manually stitch to the other network for Time Machine to the Time Capsule. The iBook cannot even see Time Capsule. So I was hoping there could be a way to use some method of File Sharing to transcend the two networks. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Two WLANs or One?
On Jun 23, 7:02 pm, Ryan Waldon ryanwaldon2...@gmail.com wrote: Yes they are. The Macs and the Linux box can all see each, and interact. My wife's Vista rig is a different story... Thanks, Ryan. Perhaps your 802.11g network is also set to work in the 802.11b standard, or do you have some sort of file sharing going on between the two networks? Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to Low End Mac's iMac List, a group for those using G3, G4, G5, and Intel Core iMacs as well as Apple eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to imaclist-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
