Re: Supporting the project financially
Oswald Buddenhagen writes: >>I totally understand as well that spending time setting this >>up without actually knowing how many people would be willing to get on >>board might sound like a waste of time (hence my question to other >>fellow users) :) >> > if i'd count the time spent on just researching this at IT consulting > rate, i'd have already spent more than i'll realistically ever earn > this way, at least relating to isync. i might still create the > account(s), but for now i'm bored of this little crash course in > fintech. :'-D Hehe, yup, probably. Thanks for taking the time, though. Anyway, whatever your decision is please let me (us!) know. If you end up doing nothing which is totally reasonable just please drop a note over here and I'll personally go for a one off transaction via Paypal; it's not the end of the world :) Have a nice day. -- bye Nacho http://cern.ch/nacho ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: Supporting the project financially
On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 09:57:12AM +0100, Nacho Barrientos wrote: I was initially suggesting Github sponsors as of today AFAIK they don't take any fee for 1-to-1 sponsorship and they charge in USD, allowing non-USD-native donors to work around terrible currency conversion rates by using platforms like Revolut or Transferwise. i actually spent quite some time investigating the matter. the platform as such seems ok. it's claimed to be free for receivers and private donors (which would mean that github/ms cover the payment processing fees). they would make money with corporate donations (which they take a whopping 10% cut from), and possibly with interest they get on the donations they "buffer" (payouts are at most monthly). a round-trip from euro to euro would be kinda inefficient with "normal" banking (4%-ish loss), as first the donor's card provider would charge, and then stripe would charge the recipient. that's official, see https://forum.k9mail.app/t/sponsoring-development-of-k9-via-github/972/5 of course, it could be optimized by both ends using revolut or whatever, but figuring out what exactly actually *is* free is a bit tedious. I don't know if you can use this system if the source code of the project itself is not hosted in Github i didn't find any such restrictions in the ToS. There are other options like Liberapay and Patreon but I don't have any experience using them so I can't give any input. patreon is expensive-ish - 5%, plus processing fees. liberapay is free, but again there are processing fees, which they estimate to be 5% on average (they just use paypal or stripe). I totally understand as well that spending time setting this up without actually knowing how many people would be willing to get on board might sound like a waste of time (hence my question to other fellow users) :) if i'd count the time spent on just researching this at IT consulting rate, i'd have already spent more than i'll realistically ever earn this way, at least relating to isync. i might still create the account(s), but for now i'm bored of this little crash course in fintech. :'-D ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: isync as substitute for imapsync was Supporting the project financially
On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 06:21:51PM +, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: One-way (possibly stateless) sync, [...] i'm not sure which of the named behaviors you consider requirements, and which just happen to be things imapsync does, so here are three ways to do it *somehow* with isync: the most direct way is just a single channel that connects two imap stores. there is no local copy in that case, but that seems unnecessary anyway - you can just inspect the result on the target server with any interactive imap client. the second way introduces a local maildir store. the first channel pulls from the first server to the local store, the second pushes from the local store to the second server. obviously, at least one of the channels *must not* use 'SyncState *', or hell breaks loose. both of these solutions don't "clean up" the source - synchronization (rather than fetching) is the very nature of isync. if you want (optional) source deletion, then you get a classical use case for fetchmail: fetch into a local store, and then use isync to push that up to the second server. this is a two-step process, but it's free from races. it may not be beautiful, but it does the job, and it doesn't require turning isync into something it's not, by design. ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: isync as substitute for imapsync was Supporting the project financially
On 13 Dec 2021, at 18:27, Simão Afonso wrote: > On 2021-12-13 18:21:51, Sabahattin Gucukoglu via isync-devel wrote: >> One-way (possibly stateless) sync, with optional deletion of messages from >> the source, with optional removal of empty folders. I am aware that this can >> be implemented with a multi-stage process, but imapsync does it rather >> better for this particular use case (maintain a relationship with an >> existing provider, while making the transition to a self-hosted server or >> another provider) by maintaining a locally-hosted copy of what would be >> stored on the source at the destination. > > What's the difference between this and "Expunge None"? Without expunging > the messages, they will be physically present, but marked as deleted, > correct? Yep, but that’s not what I want for transition. The idea is to expunge after sync, i.e. so the source is empty after every transfer. Right now with mbsync you would have to do this with two passes (with possible race condition), by pulling from the source, pushing new mail into a second tree, deleting messages and/or folders from the pull destination, and then pushing back the deletions. With imapsync all this is unnecessary and it’s just a feature of the one-way sync to also remove source messages and/or folders during transfer. Cheers, Sabahattin ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: isync as substitute for imapsync was Supporting the project financially
On 2021-12-13 18:21:51, Sabahattin Gucukoglu via isync-devel wrote: > On 13 Dec 2021, at 17:49, Oswald Buddenhagen > wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 02:26:13PM +, Sabahattin Gucukoglu via > > isync-devel wrote: > >> Not that I would wish to prejudice the author(s) of imapsync, another paid > >> tool for IMAP migration, but what would it take for mbsync, whose > >> interface and configuration I much prefer, to be usable for one-way syncs > >> in the fashion of imapsync? > > > > that depends on what exactly is missing from your perspective. > > One-way (possibly stateless) sync, with optional deletion of messages from > the source, with optional removal of empty folders. I am aware that this can > be implemented with a multi-stage process, but imapsync does it rather better > for this particular use case (maintain a relationship with an existing > provider, while making the transition to a self-hosted server or another > provider) by maintaining a locally-hosted copy of what would be stored on the > source at the destination. What's the difference between this and "Expunge None"? Without expunging the messages, they will be physically present, but marked as deleted, correct? ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: isync as substitute for imapsync was Supporting the project financially
On 13 Dec 2021, at 17:49, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: > On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 02:26:13PM +, Sabahattin Gucukoglu via > isync-devel wrote: >> Not that I would wish to prejudice the author(s) of imapsync, another paid >> tool for IMAP migration, but what would it take for mbsync, whose interface >> and configuration I much prefer, to be usable for one-way syncs in the >> fashion of imapsync? > > that depends on what exactly is missing from your perspective. One-way (possibly stateless) sync, with optional deletion of messages from the source, with optional removal of empty folders. I am aware that this can be implemented with a multi-stage process, but imapsync does it rather better for this particular use case (maintain a relationship with an existing provider, while making the transition to a self-hosted server or another provider) by maintaining a locally-hosted copy of what would be stored on the source at the destination. >> And, yes, I’ll pay for it. As patron, not as customer, you understand. :) > > to be pedantic about the terminology, "pay for it" means more or less "cover > the real cost of development at market prices". that would be anything from a > hundred to a few thousand euros, depending on how much needs to be done. > patronage or sponsorship (whether individual or crowd-sourced) would > minimally mean "cover subsistence", for a period of time that actually > matters. anything less is really just a token of appreciation - which is all > fine, but should be kept in mind to manage expectations. I specifically mean the latter, i.e. incentives should be aligned with your users because “the market” might not value user needs. Of course I reserve the right to say exactly how much, and for how long. :) Thanks for isync. It’s much appreciated. Cheers, Sabahattin ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: Supporting the project financially
Hi,
Oswald Buddenhagen writes:
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 01:14:37PM +0100, Nacho Barrientos wrote:
>>Nowadays, iSync is an essential part of my computing.
>>
> pedantically, it's better to avoid this capitalization, as it's
> apple's (much younger and now defunct) trademark.
Pedantically, but rightfully :) I promise it was not intentional, sorry
for that.
> whether that's correct depends on how pedantic you want to be. :-D
> you can just paypal me under this address, and as long as it's a
> personal transaction in euro, it will even be cost-effective.
Sadly, Paypal's fees could be rather unreasonable in some cases. For
instance, my Paypal account is not in EUR and they're willing to charge
~3.80 EUR as "Paypal fees" + a rather poor currency conversion rate for
a ~30 EUR "personal transaction", example:
Vous paierez :35.97 CHF (free translation: "you'll pay")
o...@gmx.de recevra 29.41 EUR ("o...@gmx.de will receive")
I was initially suggesting Github sponsors as of today AFAIK they don't
take any fee for 1-to-1 sponsorship and they charge in USD, allowing
non-USD-native donors to work around terrible currency conversion rates
by using platforms like Revolut or Transferwise. Also, GitHub sponsors
works in a subscription fashion which is also convenient to avoid doing
a one-off donation and then forgetting about the project. Surely there
might be caveats, for instance I don't know if you can use this system
if the source code of the project itself is not hosted in Github and
also of course I don't know what your feelings are about Github in
general.
There are other options like Liberapay and Patreon but I don't have any
experience using them so I can't give any input.
I'll stop here as I don't feel comfortable talking about something
that's not my business. I don't want to give the impression that I'm
patronising, I'm just humbly trying to make things better for
everybody. I totally understand as well that spending time setting this
up without actually knowing how many people would be willing to get on
board might sound like a waste of time (hence my question to other
fellow users) :)
Have a nice day and thanks again!
--
bye
Nacho
http://cern.ch/nacho
___
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Re: isync as substitute for imapsync was Supporting the project financially
On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 02:26:13PM +, Sabahattin Gucukoglu via isync-devel wrote: Not that I would wish to prejudice the author(s) of imapsync, another paid tool for IMAP migration, but what would it take for mbsync, whose interface and configuration I much prefer, to be usable for one-way syncs in the fashion of imapsync? that depends on what exactly is missing from your perspective. And, yes, I’ll pay for it. As patron, not as customer, you understand. :) to be pedantic about the terminology, "pay for it" means more or less "cover the real cost of development at market prices". that would be anything from a hundred to a few thousand euros, depending on how much needs to be done. patronage or sponsorship (whether individual or crowd-sourced) would minimally mean "cover subsistence", for a period of time that actually matters. anything less is really just a token of appreciation - which is all fine, but should be kept in mind to manage expectations. ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
isync as substitute for imapsync was Supporting the project financially
Not that I would wish to prejudice the author(s) of imapsync, another paid tool for IMAP migration, but what would it take for mbsync, whose interface and configuration I much prefer, to be usable for one-way syncs in the fashion of imapsync? And, yes, I’ll pay for it. As patron, not as customer, you understand. :) Cheers, Sabahattin ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: Supporting the project financially
Done. I was looking for payment info earlier but haven't gone as far as asking for it - so thanks for Both! I think this should be added to github or the webpage. I'm incredibly grateful for this fantastic piece of software, using it hourly with a variety of syncs for two accounts. Best wishes, Marton On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 07:09:16PM +0100, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: > On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 01:14:37PM +0100, Nacho Barrientos wrote: > > Nowadays, iSync is an essential part of my computing. > > > pedantically, it's better to avoid this capitalization, as it's apple's > (much younger and now defunct) trademark. > > > I couldn't find though any way to donate money on the website of the > > project > > > none is documented, indeed. > > > so I'm naively thinking that it's not possible at the moment. Please > > correct me if I'm wrong. > > > whether that's correct depends on how pedantic you want to be. :-D > you can just paypal me under this address, and as long as it's a personal > transaction in euro, it will even be cost-effective. > > > 2) Would the maintainers be happy to be supported financially say via, > > dunno, Github sponsors [0] or similar? > > > sure. > > > Thanks for your time and have a nice Sunday :) > > > thx, ditto :) > > > ___ > isync-devel mailing list > isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Re: Supporting the project financially
On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 01:14:37PM +0100, Nacho Barrientos wrote: Nowadays, iSync is an essential part of my computing. pedantically, it's better to avoid this capitalization, as it's apple's (much younger and now defunct) trademark. I couldn't find though any way to donate money on the website of the project none is documented, indeed. so I'm naively thinking that it's not possible at the moment. Please correct me if I'm wrong. whether that's correct depends on how pedantic you want to be. :-D you can just paypal me under this address, and as long as it's a personal transaction in euro, it will even be cost-effective. 2) Would the maintainers be happy to be supported financially say via, dunno, Github sponsors [0] or similar? sure. Thanks for your time and have a nice Sunday :) thx, ditto :) ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
Supporting the project financially
Hi all, Nowadays, iSync is an essential part of my computing. I use it daily to sync both my personal and my work email. I imagine that the current maintainers (maintainer?) are lucky to have a day job paying the bills, however personally I'd be very happy to modestly support the project financially. I couldn't find though any way to donate money on the website of the project so I'm naively thinking that it's not possible at the moment. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Even if the maintainers were fortunate enough to not to be in need for donations at the moment, I'd still like to contribute this way as a token of appreciation for their dedication and time spent fixing bugs, replying to help requests and responding to CVEs. So, I'd like to drop over here a couple of open questions, the first one for the fellow users reading the mailing list and the second one for the maintainers: 1) Would anybody else be willing to get on board so the devs could consider setting something up? 2) Would the maintainers be happy to be supported financially say via, dunno, Github sponsors [0] or similar? Thanks for your time and have a nice Sunday :) [0] https://github.com/sponsors -- bye Nacho http://cern.ch/nacho ___ isync-devel mailing list isync-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/isync-devel
