date:20021030

During testing of Peter's interrupt() patch, I did some testing by turning
off the database server during operation.  That didn't require his
particular patch, but turning the server back on (and watching James NOT
reconnect) reminds me that we need to work on reconnecting with the database
(not for rev 2.1).  And we really need to take a close look at exception
handling and recovery, post-2.1 release.

The attached is a start towards fixing an outstanding issue with
interrupting the spooler. It is submited only for comment and review, not
commit, and contains preliminary support for allowing accept() to be
interruptible, which would impact JamesSpoolManager.  This is NOT intended
for release 2.1.  Look for the following comment string: "-- post 2.1 enable
this (NjB)" --- in fact, the changes are all commented out because they are
in my build tree, and I'm not ready to deploy them even here until post-2.1.

Depending upon what direction we take with repositories, it may or may not
be an issue, but the bottom line is that in the future we must cleanup and
normalize exception handling.  We have too many places where we toss
RuntimeExceptions rather than clean up the interface to declare what we
need, and too many places were we eat Exceptions that should be handled.  A
review and cleanup of exception handling ought to be on the v3 TODO list.

--- Noel

Index: src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/AvalonSpoolRepository.java
===
RCS file: 
/home/cvspublic/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/AvalonSpoolRepository.java,v
retrieving revision 1.7
diff -u -r1.7 AvalonSpoolRepository.java
--- src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/AvalonSpoolRepository.java 18 Aug 2002 
07:23:55 -  1.7
+++ src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/AvalonSpoolRepository.java 30 Oct 2002 
+08:12:21 -
@@ -40,11 +40,11 @@
  *
  * @return the key for the mail
  */
-public synchronized String accept() {
+public synchronized String accept() /* throws InterruptedException -- post 2.1 
+enable this (NjB) */ {
 if ((DEEP_DEBUG) && (getLogger().isDebugEnabled())) {
 getLogger().debug("Method accept() called");
 }
-while (true) {
+while (true /*!Thread.currentThread().isInterrupted() -- post 2.1 enable this 
+(NjB) */) {
 try {
 for(Iterator it = list(); it.hasNext(); ) {
 
@@ -66,11 +66,13 @@
 }
 
 wait();
-} catch (InterruptedException ignored) {
+} catch (InterruptedException ex) {
+/* throw ex; -- post 2.1 enable this (NjB) */
 } catch (ConcurrentModificationException ignoredAlso) {
// Should never get here now that list methods clones keyset for 
iterator
 }
 }
+/* throw new InterruptedException(); -- post 2.1 enable this (NjB) */
 }
 
 /**
@@ -84,11 +86,11 @@
  *
  * @return the key for the mail
  */
-public synchronized String accept(long delay) {
+public synchronized String accept(long delay) /* throws InterruptedException -- 
+post 2.1 enable this (NjB) */ {
 if ((DEEP_DEBUG) && (getLogger().isDebugEnabled())) {
 getLogger().debug("Method accept(delay) called");
 }
-while (true) {
+while (true /* !Thread.currentThread().isInterrupted() -- post 2.1 enable 
+this (NjB) */) {
 long youngest = 0;
 for (Iterator it = list(); it.hasNext(); ) {
 String s = it.next().toString();
@@ -139,10 +141,12 @@
 } else {
 wait(youngest - System.currentTimeMillis());
 }
-} catch (InterruptedException ignored) {
+} catch (InterruptedException ex) {
+/* throw ex; -- post 2.1 enable this (NjB) */
 } catch (ConcurrentModificationException ignoredAlso) {
// Should never get here now that list methods clones keyset for 
iterator
 }
 }
+/* throw new InterruptedException(); -- post 2.1 enable this (NjB) */
 }
 }
Index: src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/JDBCMailRepository.java
===
RCS file: 
/home/cvspublic/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/JDBCMailRepository.java,v
retrieving revision 1.30
diff -u -r1.30 JDBCMailRepository.java
--- src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/JDBCMailRepository.java28 Oct 2002 
17:33:24 -  1.30
+++ src/java/org/apache/james/mailrepository/JDBCMailRepository.java30 Oct 2002 
+08:12:22 -
@@ -743,7 +743,7 @@
 rsListMessages = listMessages.executeQuery();
 
 List messageList = new ArrayList();
-while (rsListMessages.next()) {
+while (rsListMessages.next() /* && 
+!Thread.currentThread().isInterrupted(

RE: [PROPOSAL] James Interrupted (and Exceptions)

> During testing of Peter's interrupt() patch, I did some testing by turning
> off the database server during operation.  That didn't require his
> particular patch, but turning the server back on (and watching James NOT
> reconnect) reminds me that we need to work on reconnecting with 
> the database
> (not for rev 2.1).

I have a database connection pool package which does re-connect, if this isn't a 
config issue I'll compare mordred's logic with my own and see whats what.

d.


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[PATCH] Adding Interrupts to idleClose()


All,

During load testing with James and JDBC, Noel was able to produce an
interesting problem where there was a problem (not due to James) down at
the database.  Closing the socket was not enough to get the handler's
attention down at lower levels.  Threads were not being returned to the
pools. Eventually, James refused to allow any more connections rather
than spawn new threads in an unbounded fashion.

This patch supplements the socket.close() approach that has been used in
the James handler timeout with an additional Thread.interrupt().  Noel
tested it by replacing the sendMail() call in smtphandler with:

  while (!Thread.currentThread().isInterrupted()) {
  try {
  Thread.sleep(1000);
  } catch(InterruptedException ex) {
  if ((System.currentTimeMillis() & 1L) == 0)
  throw new MessagingException("Watchdog Test");
  else
  Thread.currentThread().interrupt();
  }
  }

which tested both the scenario were a method would be interrupted that
threw an exception, and the scenario where the interrupted flag is
simply set. Noel also tested the patch with a variant of that code
embedded inside of store().

Please note that this is designed to address a pre-existing bug.

Unless something else arises in our testing, this should be the last
change of any significance in the Java source code before we release
2.1.  After this, we can focus on the remaining documentation and
testing required for release.

--Peter


Index: src/java/org/apache/james/nntpserver/NNTPHandler.java
===
RCS file: 
/home/cvspublic/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/nntpserver/NNTPHandler.java,v
retrieving revision 1.24
diff -u -r1.24 NNTPHandler.java
--- src/java/org/apache/james/nntpserver/NNTPHandler.java   26 Oct 2002 20:16:30 
-  1.24
+++ src/java/org/apache/james/nntpserver/NNTPHandler.java   30 Oct 2002 08:12:23 
+-
@@ -203,6 +203,11 @@
 private final static String AUTHINFO_PARAM_PASS = "PASS";
 
 /**
+ * The thread executing this handler 
+ */
+private Thread handlerThread;
+
+/**
  * The TCP/IP socket over which the POP3 interaction
  * is occurring
  */
@@ -301,6 +306,16 @@
 }
 } catch (Exception e) {
 // ignored
+} finally {
+socket = null;
+}
+
+synchronized (this) {
+// Interrupt the thread to recover from internal hangs
+if (handlerThread != null) {
+handlerThread.interrupt();
+handlerThread = null;
+}
 }
 }
 
@@ -311,6 +326,9 @@
 
 try {
 this.socket = connection;
+synchronized (this) {
+handlerThread = Thread.currentThread();
+}
 reader = new BufferedReader(new 
InputStreamReader(socket.getInputStream(), "ASCII"), 1024);
 writer = new InternetPrintWriter(new BufferedWriter(new 
OutputStreamWriter(socket.getOutputStream()), 1024), true);
 } catch (Exception e) {
@@ -387,6 +405,10 @@
 getLogger().warn("NNTPHandler: Unexpected exception occurred while 
closing socket: " + ioe);
 } finally {
 socket = null;
+}
+
+synchronized (this) {
+handlerThread = null;
 }
 
 // Clear the selected group, article info
Index: src/java/org/apache/james/pop3server/POP3Handler.java
===
RCS file: 
/home/cvspublic/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/pop3server/POP3Handler.java,v
retrieving revision 1.16
diff -u -r1.16 POP3Handler.java
--- src/java/org/apache/james/pop3server/POP3Handler.java   26 Oct 2002 19:57:37 
-  1.16
+++ src/java/org/apache/james/pop3server/POP3Handler.java   30 Oct 2002 08:12:24 
+-
@@ -84,6 +84,11 @@
 private MailRepository userInbox;
 
 /**
+ * The thread executing this handler 
+ */
+private Thread handlerThread;
+
+/**
  * The TCP/IP socket over which the POP3 interaction
  * is occurring
  */
@@ -176,7 +181,18 @@
 }
 } catch (Exception e) {
 // ignored
+} finally {
+socket = null;
 }
+
+synchronized (this) {
+// Interrupt the thread to recover from internal hangs
+if (handlerThread != null) {
+handlerThread.interrupt();
+handlerThread = null;
+}
+}
+
 }
 
 /**
@@ -190,6 +206,9 @@
 
 try {
 this.socket = connection;
+synchronized (this) {
+handlerThread = Thread.currentThread();
+}
 in = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(socket.getInputStream(), 
"ASCII"), 512);
 remoteIP = socket.getInetAddress().getHostAddress ();
 remoteHost = socket.getInetAddress().get

RE: [PATCH] Adding Interrupts to idleClose()

> Unless something else arises in our testing, this should be the last
> change of any significance in the Java source code before we release
> 2.1.  After this, we can focus on the remaining documentation and
> testing required for release.

Cool, I suggest, when you're ready, that we release a release candidate "2.1rc1" in 
"latest" and announce it to the users list.


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DO NOT REPLY [Bug 14085] New: - James output on startup is polluted with extra messages

2002-10-30 Thread bugzilla

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG 
RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
.
ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND 
INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.

http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14085

James output on startup is polluted with extra messages

   Summary: James output on startup is polluted with extra messages
   Product: James
   Version: unspecified
  Platform: Other
OS/Version: Other
Status: NEW
  Severity: Minor
  Priority: Other
 Component: James Core
AssignedTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Not sure where these have come from, but they're not really appropriate IMO.

James 2.1a1-cvs
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Remote Manager Service started plain:4555
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
POP3 Service started plain:110
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
SMTP Service started plain:25
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating SMTPHandler
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
Creating ClientConnectionRunner
NNTP Service started plain:119
Fetch POP Disabled

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cvs commit: jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/smtpserver SMTPHandler.java

2002-10-30 Thread pgoldstein

pgoldstein2002/10/30 02:34:58

  Modified:src/java/org/apache/james/util/connection
ServerConnection.java
   src/java/org/apache/james/smtpserver SMTPHandler.java
  Log:
  Removing debugging messages - resolving bug #14085
  
  
  Revision  ChangesPath
  1.3   +0 -1  
jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/util/connection/ServerConnection.java
  
  Index: ServerConnection.java
  ===
  RCS file: 
/home/cvs/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/util/connection/ServerConnection.java,v
  retrieving revision 1.2
  retrieving revision 1.3
  diff -u -r1.2 -r1.3
  --- ServerConnection.java 26 Oct 2002 04:02:55 -  1.2
  +++ ServerConnection.java 30 Oct 2002 10:34:58 -  1.3
  @@ -349,7 +349,6 @@
   private Thread clientSocketThread;
   
   public ClientConnectionRunner() {
  -System.out.println("Creating ClientConnectionRunner");
   }
   
   /**
  
  
  
  1.34  +1 -6  
jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/smtpserver/SMTPHandler.java
  
  Index: SMTPHandler.java
  ===
  RCS file: 
/home/cvs/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/smtpserver/SMTPHandler.java,v
  retrieving revision 1.33
  retrieving revision 1.34
  diff -u -r1.33 -r1.34
  --- SMTPHandler.java  26 Oct 2002 18:42:56 -  1.33
  +++ SMTPHandler.java  30 Oct 2002 10:34:58 -  1.34
  @@ -217,11 +217,6 @@
*/
   StringBuffer responseBuffer = new StringBuffer(256);
   
  -public SMTPHandler() {
  -System.out.println("Creating SMTPHandler");
  -}
  -
  -
   /**
* Set the configuration data for the handler
*
  
  
  

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DO NOT REPLY [Bug 14085] - James output on startup is polluted with extra messages

2002-10-30 Thread bugzilla

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG 
RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
.
ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND 
INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.

http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14085

James output on startup is polluted with extra messages

[EMAIL PROTECTED] changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution||FIXED



--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2002-10-30 10:36 ---
Residual debugging messages that we missed.  Sorry about that.  Removed now.  
Closing.

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Re: [PROPOSAL] James Interrupted (and Exceptions)

Danny Angus wrote:

During testing of Peter's interrupt() patch, I did some testing by turning
off the database server during operation.  That didn't require his
particular patch, but turning the server back on (and watching James NOT
reconnect) reminds me that we need to work on reconnecting with 
the database
(not for rev 2.1).


I have a database connection pool package which does re-connect, if this isn't a config issue I'll compare mordred's logic with my own and see whats what.

d.


Mordred's logic is pretty weak.  At this point I would suggest wrapping 
an Avalon configuration around DBCP and use that since it can also 
expose javax.sql.DataSource via JNDI, which for my money would be the 
best way to let mailets get database connections in a standard way.

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Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com


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RE: [PROPOSAL] James Interrupted (and Exceptions)

Always in favour of eating our own dogfood, +1 for Commons-DBCP.
d.

> -Original Message-
> From: Serge Knystautas [mailto:sergek@;lokitech.com]

... I would suggest ... DBCP 


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cvs commit: jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/fetchpop FetchScheduler.java FetchPOP.java

2002-10-30 Thread danny

danny   2002/10/30 04:45:11

  Modified:src/java/org/apache/james/fetchpop FetchScheduler.java
FetchPOP.java
  Log:
  logged a message to confirm starting, 
  but mainly imporved exception catching in FetchPOP 
  to stop a bug which meant any message failing to be inserted in the spool killed the 
rest of the task.
  
  Revision  ChangesPath
  1.4   +2 -1  
jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/fetchpop/FetchScheduler.java
  
  Index: FetchScheduler.java
  ===
  RCS file: 
/home/cvs/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/fetchpop/FetchScheduler.java,v
  retrieving revision 1.3
  retrieving revision 1.4
  diff -u -r1.3 -r1.4
  --- FetchScheduler.java   2 Oct 2002 06:12:02 -   1.3
  +++ FetchScheduler.java   30 Oct 2002 12:45:11 -  1.4
  @@ -91,6 +91,7 @@
   scheduler.addTrigger(fetchTaskName, fetchTrigger, fp);
   theFetchTaskNames.add(fetchTaskName);
   }
  +getLogger().info("Fetch POP Started");
   System.out.println("Fetch POP Started ");
   } else {
   getLogger().info("Fetch POP Disabled");
  
  
  
  1.5   +20 -28jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/fetchpop/FetchPOP.java
  
  Index: FetchPOP.java
  ===
  RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-james/src/java/org/apache/james/fetchpop/FetchPOP.java,v
  retrieving revision 1.4
  retrieving revision 1.5
  diff -u -r1.4 -r1.5
  --- FetchPOP.java 2 Oct 2002 06:12:02 -   1.4
  +++ FetchPOP.java 30 Oct 2002 12:45:11 -  1.5
  @@ -11,10 +11,8 @@
   import java.net.SocketException;
   import java.util.Enumeration;
   import java.util.Vector;
  -
   import javax.mail.MessagingException;
   import javax.mail.internet.MimeMessage;
  -
   import org.apache.avalon.cornerstone.services.scheduler.Target;
   import org.apache.avalon.framework.component.ComponentException;
   import org.apache.avalon.framework.component.ComponentManager;
  @@ -37,32 +35,26 @@
* 
*/
   public class FetchPOP extends AbstractLogEnabled implements Configurable, Target {
  -
   /**
* The MailServer service
*/
   private MailServer server;
  -
   /**
* The unique, identifying name for this task
*/
   private String fetchTaskName;
  -
   /**
* The POP3 server host name for this fetch task
*/
   private String popHost;
  -
   /**
* The POP3 user name for this fetch task
*/
   private String popUser;
  -
   /**
* The POP3 user password for this fetch task
*/
   private String popPass;
  -
   /**
* @see 
org.apache.avalon.cornerstone.services.scheduler.Target#targetTriggered(String)
*/
  @@ -84,15 +76,22 @@
   for (int i = 0; i < messages.length; i++) {
   InputStream in = new 
ReaderInputStream(pop.retrieveMessage(messages[i].number));
   getLogger().debug("Retrieve:" + pop.getReplyString());
  -MimeMessage message = new MimeMessage(null, in);
  -in.close();
  -message.addHeader("X-fetched-from", fetchTaskName);
  -message.saveChanges();
  -if (getLogger().isDebugEnabled()) {
  -getLogger().debug("Sent message " + message.toString());
  +MimeMessage message = null;
  +try {
  +message = new MimeMessage(null, in);
  +in.close();
  +message.addHeader("X-fetched-from", fetchTaskName);
  +message.saveChanges();
  +try {
  +server.sendMail(message);
  +getLogger().debug("Sent message " + message.toString());
  +received.add(messages[i]);
  +} catch (MessagingException innerE) {
  +getLogger().error("can't insert message " + 
message.toString() + "created from "+messages[i].identifier);
  +}
  +} catch (MessagingException outerE) {
  +getLogger().error("can't create message out of fetched message 
"+messages[i].identifier);
   }
  -server.sendMail(message);
  -received.add(messages[i]);
   }
   Enumeration enum = received.elements();
   while (enum.hasMoreElements()) {
  @@ -111,28 +110,21 @@
   getLogger().error(e.getMessage());
   } catch (IOException e) {
   getLogger().error(e.getMessage());
  -} catch (MessagingException e) {
  -getLogger().error(e.getMessage());
   }
   }
  -
   /**
* @see 
org.apache.avalon.framework.component.Composable#compose(

FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

If this mail gets through.. (its going via a server being load tested!)

I thought those not on the community/reorg lists might like to read this because 
Stefano outlines quite well at least one view of the top-level-project issues.

d.


> -Original Message-
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@;apache.org]
> Sent: 30 October 2002 13:29
> To: Apache Cocoon
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
> 
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen,
> 
> it is with *great* pleasure that I'm finally feel confident enough to 
> ask you about something that is been in the back of my mind for more 
> than a year now.
> 
> The proposal of making cocoon an official top-level Apache project.
> 
>   - o -
> 
> Before I state the proposal and its implications, allow me to introduce 
> the context.
> 
> Currently, Cocoon is not officially considered a 'project' under the ASF 
> bylaws. Cocoon is, in fact, part of the Apache XML Project just like 
> Xalan Xerces Fop Batik and the others.
> 
> The ASF was designed round the concept of having one big legal umbrella 
> (the foundation) and several focused development communities (the 
> projects).
> 
> The original idea was, in fact, modeled after how the Apache Group 
> managed the Apache HTTPD project.
> 
> Unfortunately, the ASF members thought that the same model could well 
> apply to projects which did not release software directly (unlike HTTPD 
> did) and decided to use the same model for jakarta and xml (which don't 
> release software directly, but add another level of indirection with 
> subprojects).
> 
> The concept and the term "subproject" was, in fact, invented to separate 
> the development community from the container.
> 
> Over the years, it became clear that project containment yields several 
> drawbacks:
> 
>   1) container PMCs don't do anything since they are too detached from 
> the actual code (it's impossible they know all about all the code hosted 
> by the single containers!)
> 
>   2) the subproject committers never have a way to interact directly 
> with the foundation, thus they perceive it as a distant and bureaucratic 
> thing
> 
>   3) the ASF doesn't have proper legal oversight on the code contained 
> in all sub-projects
> 
>   4) the trend of sub-projecting created sub-containers (avalon and 
> turbine, for example), thus making all this even worse.
> 
>   5) the creation of sub-brands and the confusion this created. Example: 
> is Apache Tomcat? or Jakarta Tomcat? or Apache Jakarta Tomcat?
> 
> Over the last 18 months, several members tried to convince the ASF board 
> that this situation was potentially very dangerous since, in fact, the 
> container projects started to behave more and more as sub-foundations, 
> but without the proper legal understanding. This situation was 
> potentially inflammable in the case of a legal action against a 
> committer since the foundation might not have been able to properly 
> legally shield that committer since it operated outside the bylaws and 
> without proper PMC oversight.
> 
> Over the same period, several very influential members and board 
> officials were against this notion, stating that it was just a human 
> problem with the people elected on the PMC and *not* a problem in the 
> design of the foundation.
> 
> After a few new PMC elections, and after finally having a jakarta/xml 
> member elected on the board (Sam Ruby), things are finally starting to 
> change.
> 
> The ASF board agrees on an open policy on the creation of new top-level 
> Apache projects in the spirit of HTTPD: that is 'one PMC one codebase'.
> 
> So, in the light of this, I would like to hear your comments on the idea 
> of moving out of xml.apache.org into our own project.
> 
>  - o -
> 
> Before you start asking a bunch of questions, let me answer a few of 
> them that I might consider FAQs.
> 
> 1) what are the contract changes that the proposal implies? [note, all 
> these are not carved in stone, but just here to give you an idea]
> 
> Cocoon will be moved on cocoon.apache.org, all pages on xml.apache.org 
> redirected.
> 
> The cocoon-*@xml.apache.org mail lists will be moved to 
> {1}@cocoon.apache.org.
> 
> The xml-cocoon2 module will be renamed 'cocoon'. The xml-cocoon1 module 
> moved into hybernation state and stored for historical reasons only.
> 
> NOTE: cocoon namespaces all start with http://apache.org/cocoon/ so no 
> need to change anything there. [I planned this in advance at least two 
> years ago, so that's why the namespace was already clean]
> 
> 2) what does it mean for the developers?
> 
> An official Cocoon project will have an official PMC which is what is 
> legally reponsible for the code and reports directly to the board. The 
> PMC officer becomes a vice-president of the ASF.
> 
> In order to avoid stupid PMC elections, I'll be in favor of having the 
> PMC composed by *all* committer

Re: FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

Yeah, I saw this and thought about James... we've got the server, the 
mailet API, and a collection of mailets all as possible subprojects.  Or 
maybe multiple mailet packages... some standard ones, then others that 
are more like stand-alone apps.

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Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com

Danny Angus wrote:
If this mail gets through.. (its going via a server being load tested!)

I thought those not on the community/reorg lists might like to read this because Stefano outlines quite well at least one view of the top-level-project issues.

d.



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RE: FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

> we've got the server, the mailet API, and a collection
> of mailets all as possible subprojects.  Or maybe
> multiple mailet packages... some standard ones, then
> others that are more like stand-alone apps.

James would be a fine top level project.  And it is really very independent
of anything else, except for the hidden dependence upon Avalon.

--- Noel


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RE: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

Danny,

Stefano Mazzocchi is a bright guy, and most of what he says makes sense,
except for the restructuring of the web site.  For reasons I've stated
earlier, I think that it is a terrible idea to simply move each project to
its own sub-domain, making it increasingly more difficult for people to
locate related information.  From what Roy Fielding indicated, everything
that can be done about making Cocoon a top level project can be done
independently of a web site reorganization.  I'd propose that the legal
structure and web site structure be considered orthogonal issues.

I'm not saying that the web sites can't, or even shouldn't, be restructured,
just that the two issues should be dealt with separately, each on its
merits.  In the case of Cocoon, there is a good argument for it to host its
own pages.  But regardless of whether the Apache web becomes a directory of
sub-domains, each running its own technology; a frontend portal serving up
(and showcasing) information from multiple technologies; or what-have-you;
the Apache web ought to be a product of careful design to allow easy access
to relevant information, and not be a reflection of each project's legal
status.

Since you are on that list, you might care to pass along these thoughts.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:10
To: James Developer List
Subject: FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project


If this mail gets through.. (its going via a server being load tested!)

I thought those not on the community/reorg lists might like to read this
because Stefano outlines quite well at least one view of the
top-level-project issues.

d.


> -Original Message-
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@;apache.org]
> Sent: 30 October 2002 13:29
> To: Apache Cocoon
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
>
>
> Ladies and gentlemen,
>
> it is with *great* pleasure that I'm finally feel confident enough to
> ask you about something that is been in the back of my mind for more
> than a year now.
>
> The proposal of making cocoon an official top-level Apache project.
>
>   - o -
>
> Before I state the proposal and its implications, allow me to introduce
> the context.
>
> Currently, Cocoon is not officially considered a 'project' under the ASF
> bylaws. Cocoon is, in fact, part of the Apache XML Project just like
> Xalan Xerces Fop Batik and the others.
>
> The ASF was designed round the concept of having one big legal umbrella
> (the foundation) and several focused development communities (the
> projects).
>
> The original idea was, in fact, modeled after how the Apache Group
> managed the Apache HTTPD project.
>
> Unfortunately, the ASF members thought that the same model could well
> apply to projects which did not release software directly (unlike HTTPD
> did) and decided to use the same model for jakarta and xml (which don't
> release software directly, but add another level of indirection with
> subprojects).
>
> The concept and the term "subproject" was, in fact, invented to separate
> the development community from the container.
>
> Over the years, it became clear that project containment yields several
> drawbacks:
>
>   1) container PMCs don't do anything since they are too detached from
> the actual code (it's impossible they know all about all the code hosted
> by the single containers!)
>
>   2) the subproject committers never have a way to interact directly
> with the foundation, thus they perceive it as a distant and bureaucratic
> thing
>
>   3) the ASF doesn't have proper legal oversight on the code contained
> in all sub-projects
>
>   4) the trend of sub-projecting created sub-containers (avalon and
> turbine, for example), thus making all this even worse.
>
>   5) the creation of sub-brands and the confusion this created. Example:
> is Apache Tomcat? or Jakarta Tomcat? or Apache Jakarta Tomcat?
>
> Over the last 18 months, several members tried to convince the ASF board
> that this situation was potentially very dangerous since, in fact, the
> container projects started to behave more and more as sub-foundations,
> but without the proper legal understanding. This situation was
> potentially inflammable in the case of a legal action against a
> committer since the foundation might not have been able to properly
> legally shield that committer since it operated outside the bylaws and
> without proper PMC oversight.
>
> Over the same period, several very influential members and board
> officials were against this notion, stating that it was just a human
> problem with the people elected on the PMC and *not* a problem in the
> design of the foundation.
>
> After a few new PMC elections, and after finally having a jakarta/xml
> member elected on the board (Sam Ruby), things are finally starting to
> change.
>
> The ASF board agrees on an open policy o

Re: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

Noel,

I agree, and I'll pass along your comments along with some of my own.

To me the difference is between legal and branding issues... really the 
driving factor (that I can see) is legal protection, and making sure a 
committer (like us) doesn't create a mailet subproject and make 
ourselves liable.  Even as this promotion happens though, everyone would 
be best served by having James link to other projects under jakarta or 
the-projects-formerly-known-under jakarta.  I actually think jakarta and 
xml projects should link more together.  In fact, Tomcat should probably 
link to the httpd project since that's often put in front of Tomcat 
(although maybe they don't want to appear biased, but I would guess it's 
just not something people think about... who knows?)

I wouldn't say it's completely orthogonal though because this legal move 
would open the doors to projects like ours to create subprojects, thus 
requiring us to restructure the site some.

--
Serge Knystautas
Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Danny,

Stefano Mazzocchi is a bright guy, and most of what he says makes sense,
except for the restructuring of the web site.  For reasons I've stated
earlier, I think that it is a terrible idea to simply move each project to
its own sub-domain, making it increasingly more difficult for people to
locate related information.  From what Roy Fielding indicated, everything
that can be done about making Cocoon a top level project can be done
independently of a web site reorganization.  I'd propose that the legal
structure and web site structure be considered orthogonal issues.

I'm not saying that the web sites can't, or even shouldn't, be restructured,
just that the two issues should be dealt with separately, each on its
merits.  In the case of Cocoon, there is a good argument for it to host its
own pages.  But regardless of whether the Apache web becomes a directory of
sub-domains, each running its own technology; a frontend portal serving up
(and showcasing) information from multiple technologies; or what-have-you;
the Apache web ought to be a product of careful design to allow easy access
to relevant information, and not be a reflection of each project's legal
status.

Since you are on that list, you might care to pass along these thoughts.

	--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:10
To: James Developer List
Subject: FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project


If this mail gets through.. (its going via a server being load tested!)

I thought those not on the community/reorg lists might like to read this
because Stefano outlines quite well at least one view of the
top-level-project issues.

d.




-Original Message-
From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@;apache.org]
Sent: 30 October 2002 13:29
To: Apache Cocoon
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project


Ladies and gentlemen,

it is with *great* pleasure that I'm finally feel confident enough to
ask you about something that is been in the back of my mind for more
than a year now.

The proposal of making cocoon an official top-level Apache project.

 - o -

Before I state the proposal and its implications, allow me to introduce
the context.

Currently, Cocoon is not officially considered a 'project' under the ASF
bylaws. Cocoon is, in fact, part of the Apache XML Project just like
Xalan Xerces Fop Batik and the others.

The ASF was designed round the concept of having one big legal umbrella
(the foundation) and several focused development communities (the
projects).

The original idea was, in fact, modeled after how the Apache Group
managed the Apache HTTPD project.

Unfortunately, the ASF members thought that the same model could well
apply to projects which did not release software directly (unlike HTTPD
did) and decided to use the same model for jakarta and xml (which don't
release software directly, but add another level of indirection with
subprojects).

The concept and the term "subproject" was, in fact, invented to separate
the development community from the container.

Over the years, it became clear that project containment yields several
drawbacks:

 1) container PMCs don't do anything since they are too detached from
the actual code (it's impossible they know all about all the code hosted
by the single containers!)

 2) the subproject committers never have a way to interact directly
with the foundation, thus they perceive it as a distant and bureaucratic
thing

 3) the ASF doesn't have proper legal oversight on the code contained
in all sub-projects

 4) the trend of sub-projecting created sub-containers (avalon and
turbine, for example), thus making all this even worse.

 5) the creation of sub-brands and the confusion this created. Example:
is Apache Tomcat? or Jakarta Tomcat? or Apache Jakarta Tomcat?

Over

RE: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

if you have your apache mail address yet you can subscribe too.

> -Original Message-
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@;devtech.com]
> Sent: 30 October 2002 17:03
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: RE: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
> 
> 
> Danny,
> 
> Stefano Mazzocchi is a bright guy, and most of what he says makes sense,
> except for the restructuring of the web site.  For reasons I've stated
> earlier, I think that it is a terrible idea to simply move each project to
> its own sub-domain, making it increasingly more difficult for people to
> locate related information.  From what Roy Fielding indicated, everything
> that can be done about making Cocoon a top level project can be done
> independently of a web site reorganization.  I'd propose that the legal
> structure and web site structure be considered orthogonal issues.
> 
> I'm not saying that the web sites can't, or even shouldn't, be 
> restructured,
> just that the two issues should be dealt with separately, each on its
> merits.  In the case of Cocoon, there is a good argument for it 
> to host its
> own pages.  But regardless of whether the Apache web becomes a 
> directory of
> sub-domains, each running its own technology; a frontend portal serving up
> (and showcasing) information from multiple technologies; or what-have-you;
> the Apache web ought to be a product of careful design to allow 
> easy access
> to relevant information, and not be a reflection of each project's legal
> status.
> 
> Since you are on that list, you might care to pass along these thoughts.
> 
>   --- Noel
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:10
> To: James Developer List
> Subject: FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
> 
> 
> If this mail gets through.. (its going via a server being load tested!)
> 
> I thought those not on the community/reorg lists might like to read this
> because Stefano outlines quite well at least one view of the
> top-level-project issues.
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@;apache.org]
> > Sent: 30 October 2002 13:29
> > To: Apache Cocoon
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
> >
> >
> > Ladies and gentlemen,
> >
> > it is with *great* pleasure that I'm finally feel confident enough to
> > ask you about something that is been in the back of my mind for more
> > than a year now.
> >
> > The proposal of making cocoon an official top-level Apache project.
> >
> >   - o -
> >
> > Before I state the proposal and its implications, allow me to introduce
> > the context.
> >
> > Currently, Cocoon is not officially considered a 'project' under the ASF
> > bylaws. Cocoon is, in fact, part of the Apache XML Project just like
> > Xalan Xerces Fop Batik and the others.
> >
> > The ASF was designed round the concept of having one big legal umbrella
> > (the foundation) and several focused development communities (the
> > projects).
> >
> > The original idea was, in fact, modeled after how the Apache Group
> > managed the Apache HTTPD project.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the ASF members thought that the same model could well
> > apply to projects which did not release software directly (unlike HTTPD
> > did) and decided to use the same model for jakarta and xml (which don't
> > release software directly, but add another level of indirection with
> > subprojects).
> >
> > The concept and the term "subproject" was, in fact, invented to separate
> > the development community from the container.
> >
> > Over the years, it became clear that project containment yields several
> > drawbacks:
> >
> >   1) container PMCs don't do anything since they are too detached from
> > the actual code (it's impossible they know all about all the code hosted
> > by the single containers!)
> >
> >   2) the subproject committers never have a way to interact directly
> > with the foundation, thus they perceive it as a distant and bureaucratic
> > thing
> >
> >   3) the ASF doesn't have proper legal oversight on the code contained
> > in all sub-projects
> >
> >   4) the trend of sub-projecting created sub-containers (avalon and
> > turbine, for example), thus making all this even worse.
> >
> >   5) the creation of sub-brands and the confusion this created. Example:
> > is Apache Tomcat? or Jakarta Tomcat? or Apache Jakarta Tomcat?
> >
> > Over the last 18 months, several members tried to convince the ASF board
> > that this situation was potentially very dangerous since, in fact, the
> > container projects started to behave more and more as sub-foundations,
> > but without the proper legal understanding. This situation was
> > potentially inflammable in the case of a legal action against a
> > committer since the foundation might not have been able to properly
> > legally shield that committer since i

[VOTE] James as an official Apache project

All,

Now that we've had a chance to digest whats meant by a top level project, I'll subject 
you to my opinion, which I've held back so far.

Basically I'm in favour of proposing james as an apache top level project (tlp), I'm 
prepared to take the lead on our proposal, and here's why:

 James has a small yet mature community, we seldom seek recourse to the jakarta PMC, 
and equally seldom are we scrutinised by them. We are not the most active project, and 
I feel that this sometimes causes James to be disregarded. Likewise, apart from 
Avalon, we have few direct ties with other jakarta projects, and little in common 
apart from the language/platform and culture (but the culture is Apache)

The tlp issue is more about management than web-site and mail addresses, I don't 
believe that james.apache.org will bring many benefits, but I do think that 
normalising our managerial relationship with Jakarta by becoming a sibling rather than 
a child, and taking official control of all the issues we currently inherit and 
"interpret" from Jakarta would benefit James. The James PMC would be responsible to 
The Board.

I do believe that Jakarta is becoming too big to function as a single project, that 
community and culture become diluted as you descend the heirarchy and that one 
solution is for mature projects leave the nest. Of course other projects are free to 
make their own choices but as James consists primarily of the server which is an 
end-user product I feel that top level project status, emphasisng its purpose rather 
then its technology, would suit it well.

The proposals being discussed on reorg & community include the notion of federated 
projects, James, with the approval of the Jakarta PMC, could continue to be associated 
with Jakarta, I would like to think that we wouldn't be leaving Jakarta, just growing 
up. I also know that James would continue to rely on Jakarta for code, insight and 
cool thinking, but we don't need to be a Jakarta sub-project for that.

It would also give us the opportunity, as Serge mentioned, to better promote our 
sub-projects, theres Mailet, and mailets, and there are the beginings of full blown 
mailet applications.

So.. we've had time to examine the issues, lets vote.. 

Should we prepare a proposal for submission to the board, that James be elevated to a 
top level project?

   [ ] +1  I think it's a good idea 
   [ ] +0  I'll accept the majority decision, stop bothering me
   [ ] -0  I have reservations 
   [ ] -1, I don't think its a good idea


d.


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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread Scott Sanders


> Should we prepare a proposal for submission to the board, 
> that James be elevated to a top level project?
> 
>[ ] +1  I think it's a good idea 
>[ ] +0  I'll accept the majority decision, stop bothering me
>[ ] -0  I have reservations 
>[ ] -1, I don't think its a good idea
> 
> 

My non-binding +1.  I think a mailets sub-project space should be
included in that proposal.

Scott

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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

PS...
Theres a tradition of people voting who's vote may not count, do that please because 
I'd really like to hear from the whole community, not just the commiters.

d.



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Re: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread Stephen McConnell

Danny Angus wrote:

All,

Now that we've had a chance to digest whats meant by a top level project, I'll subject you to my opinion, which I've held back so far.

Basically I'm in favour of proposing james as an apache top level project (tlp), I'm prepared to take the lead on our proposal, and here's why:

James has a small yet mature community, we seldom seek recourse to the jakarta PMC, and equally seldom are we scrutinised by them. We are not the most active project, and I feel that this sometimes causes James to be disregarded. Likewise, apart from Avalon, we have few direct ties with other jakarta projects, and little in common apart from the language/platform and culture (but the culture is Apache)

The tlp issue is more about management than web-site and mail addresses, I don't believe that james.apache.org will bring many benefits, but I do think that normalising our managerial relationship with Jakarta by becoming a sibling rather than a child, and taking official control of all the issues we currently inherit and "interpret" from Jakarta would benefit James. The James PMC would be responsible to The Board.

I do believe that Jakarta is becoming too big to function as a single project, that community and culture become diluted as you descend the heirarchy and that one solution is for mature projects leave the nest. Of course other projects are free to make their own choices but as James consists primarily of the server which is an end-user product I feel that top level project status, emphasisng its purpose rather then its technology, would suit it well.

The proposals being discussed on reorg & community include the notion of federated projects, James, with the approval of the Jakarta PMC, could continue to be associated with Jakarta, I would like to think that we wouldn't be leaving Jakarta, just growing up. I also know that James would continue to rely on Jakarta for code, insight and cool thinking, but we don't need to be a Jakarta sub-project for that.

It would also give us the opportunity, as Serge mentioned, to better promote our sub-projects, theres Mailet, and mailets, and there are the beginings of full blown mailet applications.

So.. we've had time to examine the issues, lets vote..

Should we prepare a proposal for submission to the board, that James be elevated to a top level project?

[ ] +1 I think it's a good idea
[ ] +0 I'll accept the majority decision, stop bothering me
[ ] -0 I have reservations
[ ] -1, I don't think its a good idea

Cheers, Steve.

Stephen J. McConnell

OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@;osm.net
http://www.osm.net

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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread Brad Walker

+1 without a doubt

-Original Message-
From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:56 PM
To: James Developers List
Subject: RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

PS...
Theres a tradition of people voting who's vote may not count, do that please
because I'd really like to hear from the whole community, not just the
commiters.

d.

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Re: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

Danny Angus wrote:

Should we prepare a proposal for submission to the board, that James be elevated to a top level project?

   [ ] +1  I think it's a good idea 
   [ ] +0  I'll accept the majority decision, stop bothering me
   [ ] -0  I have reservations 
   [ ] -1, I don't think its a good idea

+1.  Let me know if you need any help, if the community thinks it's a 
good idea.

--
Serge Knystautas
Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com


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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

+1. 

> -Original Message-
> From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:47 AM
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project
> 
> All,
> 
> Now that we've had a chance to digest whats meant by a top level
project,
> I'll subject you to my opinion, which I've held back so far.
> 
> Basically I'm in favour of proposing james as an apache top level
project
> (tlp), I'm prepared to take the lead on our proposal, and here's why:
> 
>  James has a small yet mature community, we seldom seek recourse to
the
> jakarta PMC, and equally seldom are we scrutinised by them. We are not
the
> most active project, and I feel that this sometimes causes James to be
> disregarded. Likewise, apart from Avalon, we have few direct ties with
> other jakarta projects, and little in common apart from the
> language/platform and culture (but the culture is Apache)
> 
> The tlp issue is more about management than web-site and mail
addresses, I
> don't believe that james.apache.org will bring many benefits, but I do
> think that normalising our managerial relationship with Jakarta by
> becoming a sibling rather than a child, and taking official control of
all
> the issues we currently inherit and "interpret" from Jakarta would
benefit
> James. The James PMC would be responsible to The Board.
> 
> I do believe that Jakarta is becoming too big to function as a single
> project, that community and culture become diluted as you descend the
> heirarchy and that one solution is for mature projects leave the nest.
Of
> course other projects are free to make their own choices but as James
> consists primarily of the server which is an end-user product I feel
that
> top level project status, emphasisng its purpose rather then its
> technology, would suit it well.
> 
> The proposals being discussed on reorg & community include the notion
of
> federated projects, James, with the approval of the Jakarta PMC, could
> continue to be associated with Jakarta, I would like to think that we
> wouldn't be leaving Jakarta, just growing up. I also know that James
would
> continue to rely on Jakarta for code, insight and cool thinking, but
we
> don't need to be a Jakarta sub-project for that.
> 
> It would also give us the opportunity, as Serge mentioned, to better
> promote our sub-projects, theres Mailet, and mailets, and there are
the
> beginings of full blown mailet applications.
> 
> So.. we've had time to examine the issues, lets vote..
> 
> Should we prepare a proposal for submission to the board, that James
be
> elevated to a top level project?
> 
>[ ] +1  I think it's a good idea
>[ ] +0  I'll accept the majority decision, stop bothering me
>[ ] -0  I have reservations
>[ ] -1, I don't think its a good idea
> 
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:    [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread Steve Short

+1 (Non-committer)

> -Original Message-
> From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:47 AM
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> Now that we've had a chance to digest whats meant by a top 
> level project, I'll subject you to my opinion, which I've 
> held back so far.
> 
> Basically I'm in favour of proposing james as an apache top 
> level project (tlp), I'm prepared to take the lead on our 
> proposal, and here's why:
> 
>  James has a small yet mature community, we seldom seek 
> recourse to the jakarta PMC, and equally seldom are we 
> scrutinised by them. We are not the most active project, and 
> I feel that this sometimes causes James to be disregarded. 
> Likewise, apart from Avalon, we have few direct ties with 
> other jakarta projects, and little in common apart from the 
> language/platform and culture (but the culture is Apache)
> 
> The tlp issue is more about management than web-site and mail 
> addresses, I don't believe that james.apache.org will bring 
> many benefits, but I do think that normalising our managerial 
> relationship with Jakarta by becoming a sibling rather than a 
> child, and taking official control of all the issues we 
> currently inherit and "interpret" from Jakarta would benefit 
> James. The James PMC would be responsible to The Board.
> 
> I do believe that Jakarta is becoming too big to function as 
> a single project, that community and culture become diluted 
> as you descend the heirarchy and that one solution is for 
> mature projects leave the nest. Of course other projects are 
> free to make their own choices but as James consists 
> primarily of the server which is an end-user product I feel 
> that top level project status, emphasisng its purpose rather 
> then its technology, would suit it well.
> 
> The proposals being discussed on reorg & community include 
> the notion of federated projects, James, with the approval of 
> the Jakarta PMC, could continue to be associated with 
> Jakarta, I would like to think that we wouldn't be leaving 
> Jakarta, just growing up. I also know that James would 
> continue to rely on Jakarta for code, insight and cool 
> thinking, but we don't need to be a Jakarta sub-project for that.
> 
> It would also give us the opportunity, as Serge mentioned, to 
> better promote our sub-projects, theres Mailet, and mailets, 
> and there are the beginings of full blown mailet applications.
> 
> So.. we've had time to examine the issues, lets vote.. 
> 
> Should we prepare a proposal for submission to the board, 
> that James be elevated to a top level project?
> 
>[ ] +1  I think it's a good idea 
>[ ] +0  I'll accept the majority decision, stop bothering me
>[ ] -0  I have reservations 
>[ ] -1, I don't think its a good idea
> 
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For 
> additional commands, 
> e-mail: 
> 
> 

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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

+1


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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

Danny,

Do you want to adopt the Cocoon project's proposal that the (initial) PMC be
made from all Committers who want on, or do you have other thoughts?

--- Noel


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RE: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

Serge,

Avalon and Turbine demonstrate that projects can create sub-projects in
their portion of the web site without the "proper" legal status of TLP, or a
dedicated sub-domain.

In any event, we agree that the shift to promote suitable independent
projects to top level projects with their own PMC may encourage a shift in
web site strategy, but the Apache web site strategy really should be
undertaken as a separate coordinated project, not a chaotic consequence.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Serge Knystautas [mailto:sergek@;lokitech.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:12
To: James Developers List
Subject: Re: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project


Noel,

I agree, and I'll pass along your comments along with some of my own.

To me the difference is between legal and branding issues... really the
driving factor (that I can see) is legal protection, and making sure a
committer (like us) doesn't create a mailet subproject and make
ourselves liable.  Even as this promotion happens though, everyone would
be best served by having James link to other projects under jakarta or
the-projects-formerly-known-under jakarta.  I actually think jakarta and
xml projects should link more together.  In fact, Tomcat should probably
link to the httpd project since that's often put in front of Tomcat
(although maybe they don't want to appear biased, but I would guess it's
just not something people think about... who knows?)

I wouldn't say it's completely orthogonal though because this legal move
would open the doors to projects like ours to create subprojects, thus
requiring us to restructure the site some.

--
Serge Knystautas
Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Danny,
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi is a bright guy, and most of what he says makes sense,
> except for the restructuring of the web site.  For reasons I've stated
> earlier, I think that it is a terrible idea to simply move each project to
> its own sub-domain, making it increasingly more difficult for people to
> locate related information.  From what Roy Fielding indicated, everything
> that can be done about making Cocoon a top level project can be done
> independently of a web site reorganization.  I'd propose that the legal
> structure and web site structure be considered orthogonal issues.
>
> I'm not saying that the web sites can't, or even shouldn't, be
restructured,
> just that the two issues should be dealt with separately, each on its
> merits.  In the case of Cocoon, there is a good argument for it to host
its
> own pages.  But regardless of whether the Apache web becomes a directory
of
> sub-domains, each running its own technology; a frontend portal serving up
> (and showcasing) information from multiple technologies; or what-have-you;
> the Apache web ought to be a product of careful design to allow easy
access
> to relevant information, and not be a reflection of each project's legal
> status.
>
> Since you are on that list, you might care to pass along these thoughts.
>
>   --- Noel
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:10
> To: James Developer List
> Subject: FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
>
>
> If this mail gets through.. (its going via a server being load tested!)
>
> I thought those not on the community/reorg lists might like to read this
> because Stefano outlines quite well at least one view of the
> top-level-project issues.
>
> d.
>
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@;apache.org]
>>Sent: 30 October 2002 13:29
>>To: Apache Cocoon
>>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
>>
>>
>>Ladies and gentlemen,
>>
>>it is with *great* pleasure that I'm finally feel confident enough to
>>ask you about something that is been in the back of my mind for more
>>than a year now.
>>
>>The proposal of making cocoon an official top-level Apache project.
>>
>>  - o -
>>
>>Before I state the proposal and its implications, allow me to introduce
>>the context.
>>
>>Currently, Cocoon is not officially considered a 'project' under the ASF
>>bylaws. Cocoon is, in fact, part of the Apache XML Project just like
>>Xalan Xerces Fop Batik and the others.
>>
>>The ASF was designed round the concept of having one big legal umbrella
>>(the foundation) and several focused development communities (the
>>projects).
>>
>>The original idea was, in fact, modeled after how the Apache Group
>>managed the Apache HTTPD project.
>>
>>Unfortunately, the ASF members thought that the same model could well
>>apply to projects which did not release software directly (unlike HTTPD
>>did) and decided to use the same model for jakarta and xml (which don't
>>release software directly, but add another level of indirection with
>>subprojects).
>>
>>The concept and the term "subproj

Build From CVS has Warnings?

Hey all,

Since I'm still new getting and building releases out of CVS I wanted to
check to see if it's ok that I got this and if you experienced it when you
built:

warning: ComponentException(java.lang.String,java.lang.Throwable) in
org.apache.avalon.framework.component.ComponentException has been deprecated
  throw new ComponentException( message, e );

I got it in 11 different places.

Kenny Smith
JournalScape.com


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RE: FW: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread alan.gerhard

> James would be a fine top level project.  And it is really
> very independent of anything else, except for the hidden
> dependence upon Avalon. 
> --- Noel

which can be crippling at times. 
in going top-level, it must be very clear that all
dependencies are either removed or explicitly spelled out
with attention dedicated to ensuring those relationships are
whole.

without a clear distinction, james will always be a
subproject.

alan
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Re: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread alan.gerhard

my un-official vote is a +1 with following in mind 

"The tlp issue is more about management than web-site and
mail addresses"

I firmly believe that James will benefit with the resources
a tlp brings 

alan
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RE: Build From CVS has Warnings?


Kenny,

It's ok and expected.  The warnings will not go away unless we

i) Temporarily disable deprecation warnings, as we're likely to do with
the checkin of Phoenix 4.0.1 (the # of warnings grows to 200+)

or

ii) Upgrade to use ServiceManager and Serviceable, which is scheduled
for the next release.

--Peter

> -Original Message-
> From: Kenny Smith [mailto:kenny@;journalscape.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:09 AM
> To: James Dev
> Subject: Build From CVS has Warnings?
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Since I'm still new getting and building releases out of CVS I wanted
to
> check to see if it's ok that I got this and if you experienced it when
you
> built:
> 
> warning: ComponentException(java.lang.String,java.lang.Throwable) in
> org.apache.avalon.framework.component.ComponentException has been
> deprecated
>   throw new ComponentException( message, e );
> 
> I got it in 11 different places.
> 
> Kenny Smith
> JournalScape.com
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:    [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: Build From CVS has Warnings?

2002-10-30 Thread Stephen McConnell



Kenny Smith wrote:


Hey all,

Since I'm still new getting and building releases out of CVS I wanted to
check to see if it's ok that I got this and if you experienced it when you
built:

warning: ComponentException(java.lang.String,java.lang.Throwable) in
org.apache.avalon.framework.component.ComponentException has been deprecated
 throw new ComponentException( message, e );

I got it in 11 different places.



This is correct.

The Component interface has been deprecated as of version 4.1.2 of the 
Avalon framework.  The reason that this interface has been deprectated 
is that it forces developers of now component to implement the interface 
even though the interface declares no operations.  This can be a real 
PITA for anyone dealing with legacy or Avalon independent components. 
There is not replacement for component - instead the entire 
framework/component package is deprecated in favour of the 
framework/service package in which services and components are simply 
derived from java.lang.Object.

In terms of James there has been several message about this and the 
interest/need for James to migration from the component pacakge to the 
service package.  This seems to have been deferred for now as there are 
implications in the Mailet implemenation and (and potentially in the 
future the mailet interface).  In addition, there have been upgrades to 
the Avalon Cornerstone package to migrate towards the service package 
but this needs to synchronized with projects such as James.

I.e. the message are normal - and I think (as a non-committer) it is 
fair to say that resolution of this is on the James agenda.

Cheers, Steve.


Kenny Smith
JournalScape.com


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--

Stephen J. McConnell

OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@;osm.net
http://www.osm.net




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RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

I have no other thoughts, all that can be decided as part of our proposal, if we 
decide to formulate one..

> -Original Message-
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@;devtech.com]
> Sent: 30 October 2002 19:06
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: RE: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project
> 
> 
> Danny,
> 
> Do you want to adopt the Cocoon project's proposal that the 
> (initial) PMC be
> made from all Committers who want on, or do you have other thoughts?
> 
>   --- Noel
> 
> 
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> 
> 


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MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

Serge,

Would you mind contacting MySQL about v3 of the driver?  I guess we need
them to provide it under the ASL, rather than the GPL as they are currently
doing for the new release.

http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-jdbc.html

If not, we'll have to figure out what we want to do post-2.1 release

--- Noel


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cvs commit: jakarta-james/phoenix-bin/logs readme.txt dummy.txt

2002-10-30 Thread pgoldstein

pgoldstein2002/10/30 12:54:14

  Modified:phoenix-bin/bin Wrapper.dll Wrapper.exe phoenix-loader.jar
run.bat wrapper.jar
   phoenix-bin/bin/lib mx4j-jmx.jar mx4j-tools.jar
phoenix-engine.jar
   phoenix-bin/conf kernel.xml wrapper.conf
   phoenix-bin/lib excalibur-logger-1.0.jar phoenix-client.jar
  Added:   phoenix-bin/ext README.txt
   phoenix-bin/lib avalon-framework-4.1.3.jar logkit-1.1.1.jar
phoenix-bsh-commands.jar
   phoenix-bin/logs readme.txt
  Removed: phoenix-bin/ext dummy.txt
   phoenix-bin/lib avalon-framework-20020713.jar logkit-1.1.jar
   phoenix-bin/logs dummy.txt
  Log:
  Upgrading Phoenix to Phoenix 4.0.1
  
  
  
  Revision  ChangesPath
  1.2   +56 -45jakarta-james/phoenix-bin/bin/Wrapper.dll
  
<>
  
  
  1.2   +103 -135  jakarta-james/phoenix-bin/bin/Wrapper.exe
  
<>
  
  
  1.5   +41 -45jakarta-james/phoenix-bin/bin/phoenix-loader.jar
  
<>
  
  
  1.4   +91 -91jakarta-james/phoenix-bin/bin/run.bat
  
  Index: run.bat
  ===
  RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-james/phoenix-bin/bin/run.bat,v
  retrieving revision 1.3
  retrieving revision 1.4
  diff -u -r1.3 -r1.4
  --- run.bat   25 Sep 2002 21:14:55 -  1.3
  +++ run.bat   30 Oct 2002 20:54:12 -  1.4
  @@ -1,91 +1,91 @@
  -@echo off
  -rem
  -rem Phoenix start script.
  -rem
  -rem Author: Peter Donald [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  -rem
  -rem Environment Variable Prequisites
  -rem
  -rem   PHOENIX_OPTS   (Optional) Java runtime options used when the command is
  -rem  executed.
  -rem
  -rem   PHOENIX_TMPDIR (Optional) Directory path location of temporary directory
  -rem  the JVM should use (java.io.tmpdir).  Defaults to
  -rem  $CATALINA_BASE/temp.
  -rem
  -rem   JAVA_HOME  Must point at your Java Development Kit installation.
  -rem
  -rem   PHOENIX_JVM_OPTS   (Optional) Java runtime options used when the command is
  -rem   executed.
  -rem
  -rem -
  -
  -rem
  -rem Determine if JAVA_HOME is set and if so then use it
  -rem
  -if not "%JAVA_HOME%"=="" goto found_java
  -
  -set PHOENIX_JAVACMD=java
  -goto file_locate
  -
  -:found_java
  -set PHOENIX_JAVACMD=%JAVA_HOME%\bin\java
  -
  -:file_locate
  -
  -rem
  -rem Locate where phoenix is in filesystem
  -rem
  -if not "%OS%"=="Windows_NT" goto start
  -
  -rem %~dp0 is name of current script under NT
  -set PHOENIX_HOME=%~dp0
  -
  -rem : operator works similar to make : operator
  -set PHOENIX_HOME=%PHOENIX_HOME:\bin\=%
  -
  -:start
  -
  -if not "%PHOENIX_HOME%" == "" goto phoenix_home
  -
  -echo.
  -echo Warning: PHOENIX_HOME environment variable is not set.
  -echo   This needs to be set for Win9x as it's command prompt
  -echo   scripting bites
  -echo.
  -goto end
  -
  -:phoenix_home
  -
  -if not "%PHOENIX_TMPDIR%"=="" goto afterTmpDir
  -set PHOENIX_TMPDIR=%PHOENIX_HOME%\temp
  -if not exist "%PHOENIX_TMPDIR%" mkdir %PHOENIX_TMPDIR%
  -
  -:afterTmpDir
  -
  -echo Using PHOENIX_HOME:   %PHOENIX_HOME%
  -echo Using PHOENIX_TMPDIR: %PHOENIX_TMPDIR%
  -echo Using JAVA_HOME:  %JAVA_HOME%
  -
  -set PHOENIX_SM=
  -
  -if "%PHOENIX_SECURE%" == "false" goto postSecure
  -
  -rem Make Phoenix run with security Manager enabled
  -set PHOENIX_SM="-Djava.security.manager"
  -
  -:postSecure
  -
  -rem
  -rem -Djava.ext.dirs= is needed as some JVM vendors do foolish things
  -rem like placing jaxp/jaas/xml-parser jars in ext dir
  -rem thus breaking Phoenix
  -rem
  -
  -rem uncomment to get enable remote debugging
  -rem set DEBUG=-Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,address=8000,server=y,suspend=y
  -
  -rem Kicking the tires and lighting the fires!!!
  -"%PHOENIX_JAVACMD%" %DEBUG% "-Djava.ext.dirs=%PHOENIX_HOME%\lib" 
"-Dphoenix.home=%PHOENIX_HOME%" 
"-Djava.security.policy=jar:file:%PHOENIX_HOME%/bin/phoenix-loader.jar!/META-INF/java.policy"
 %PHOENIX_JVM_OPTS% %PHOENIX_SECURE% -jar "%PHOENIX_HOME%\bin\phoenix-loader.jar" %1 
%2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9
  -
  -:end
  +@echo off
  +rem
  +rem Phoenix start script.
  +rem
  +rem Author: Peter Donald [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  +rem
  +rem Environment Variable Prequisites
  +rem
  +rem   PHOENIX_OPTS   (Optional) Java runtime options used when the command is
  +rem  executed.
  +rem
  +rem   PHOENIX_TMPDIR (Optional) Directory path location of temporary directory
  +rem  the JVM should use (java.io.tmpdir).  Defaults to
  +rem  $CATALINA_BASE/temp.
  +rem
  +rem   JAVA_HOME  Must point at your Java Development Kit installation.
  +rem
  +rem   PHOENIX_JVM_OPTS   (Optional) Java

RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

"If you need non-GPL licenses for commercial distribution please contact me
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> or [EMAIL PROTECTED]"

As I understand it, we need non-GPL for Apache distribution, or some form of
permission that allows the driver to be distributed with James without the
GPL superceding the ASL.

Correct?

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@;devtech.com]

Serge,

Would you mind contacting MySQL about v3 of the driver?  I guess we need
them to provide it under the ASL, rather than the GPL as they are currently
doing for the new release.

http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-jdbc.html

If not, we'll have to figure out what we want to do post-2.1 release

--- Noel


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cvs commit: jakarta-james build.xml

2002-10-30 Thread pgoldstein

pgoldstein2002/10/30 13:04:12

  Modified:.build.xml
  Log:
  Upgrading Phoenix to Phoenix 4.0.1
  Turning off deprecation warnings, because upgrading to Phoenix 4.0.1
  brings the number of warnings to over 200.
  
  
  Revision  ChangesPath
  1.114 +3 -3  jakarta-james/build.xml
  
  Index: build.xml
  ===
  RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-james/build.xml,v
  retrieving revision 1.113
  retrieving revision 1.114
  diff -u -r1.113 -r1.114
  --- build.xml 20 Oct 2002 21:06:25 -  1.113
  +++ build.xml 30 Oct 2002 21:04:12 -  1.114
  @@ -42,7 +42,7 @@
   
   
   
  -
  +
   
   @ -375,7 +375,7 @@
   
   
   
  -
  +
   
   
   
  
  
  

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Phoenix 4.0.1


All,

I've just checked in the Phoenix 4.0.1 version.  It resolves the logging
bug (all log entries go to a single file) that was introduced in the
Phoenix 4.0 release version.

I've been building and running with this version successfully on a
Windows 2k box for over a week now.  Noel has tested it on Linux, and
found that it runs successfully there.

I have also changed the build.xml so that deprecation warnings are
turned off.  With this upgrade the number of Component related
deprecation warnings goes up to 200+.  IMHO that's just really annoying.
So I flipped them off until we do the upgrade to
Serviceable/ServiceManager in the next rev.

There is an observed issue with Red Hat Linux 6.2, Sun's 1.3.0 JVM, and
this revision of Phoenix.  This has been confirmed to be a JVM issue,
and can be resolved by switching to either IBM's 1.3.1 JVM or Sun's 1.4
JVM.  Other than this issue there are no known platform/JVM
incompatibilities.

Please let me know immediately if you encounter any issues, as I'd like
to make this upgrade as smooth as possible.  Please make sure that you
upgrade both your phoenix-bin directory and your build.xml.  Thanks.

--Peter



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Re: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread Leo Simons

On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 18:46, Danny Angus wrote:
> Should we prepare a proposal for submission to the board, that James be elevated to 
>a top level project?
> 
>[X] +1  I think it's a good idea 
>[ ] +0  I'll accept the majority decision, stop bothering me
>[ ] -0  I have reservations 
>[ ] -1, I don't think its a good idea

non-binding :)

cheers,

Leo Simons



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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

I've spoken to mark about this, we can continue to provide the last mm.mysql version 
under LGPL, 
given that why do you think we need to upgrade?
I've got a mail address off mark for the relevant guy to talk to, give me a good 
reason and I will, my own thoughts are that a)jars in cvs aren't good, b) licence 
issues are a PITA and best avoided where possible.

d.

> -Original Message-
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@;devtech.com]
> Sent: 30 October 2002 20:37
> To: James-Dev Mailing List
> Subject: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License
> 
> 
> Serge,
> 
> Would you mind contacting MySQL about v3 of the driver?  I guess we need
> them to provide it under the ASL, rather than the GPL as they are 
> currently
> doing for the new release.
> 
>   http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-jdbc.html
> 
> If not, we'll have to figure out what we want to do post-2.1 release
> 
>   --- Noel
> 
> 
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RE: Phoenix 4.0.1

> There is an observed issue with Red Hat Linux 6.2, Sun's 1.3.0 JVM, and
> this revision of Phoenix.  This has been confirmed to be a JVM issue,
> and can be resolved by switching to either IBM's 1.3.1 JVM or Sun's 1.4
> JVM.  Other than this issue there are no known platform/JVM
> incompatibilities.

Patch the JVM recommendations in the xdocs, before we forget.


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JDBC Resources/Mordred issues

This morning's testing with IBM JVM 1.3.1_01 demonstrated a problem.  At the
least, a default config issue, but I believe there are also coding issues.
Whether or not they require a fix before release is another matter.

James was was running along at a nice healthy clip of roughly 2500 messages
per minute (same box that was running 1600 mpm with Hotspot Server), but
from time to time, would return:

451 Error processing message: Exception spooling message: Exception caught
while storing mail Container: java.sql.SQLException: Giving up... no
connections available.

Checking the logs, I found this to be an equal opportunity exception:

java.sql.SQLException: Giving up... no connections available.
at JdbcDataSource.getConnection
at JDBCMailRepository.retrieve
at JamesSpoolManager.run

java.sql.SQLException: Giving up... no connections available.
at JdbcDataSource.getConnection
at JDBCMailRepository.store
at JDBCSpoolRepository.store
at James.sendMail

store() was only throwing this a few times an hour initially, but retrieve()
was throwing this about 20 times per hour, or more, even early on when
things were running smartly.

Checking the config, I found one issue: current values in james-config.xml
(I was using a stock config for testing) provide 30 SMTP connections and 10
spool threads, but only 10 database connections.  Apparently, even with a 5
second window within getConnection(), a 1:4 ratio of resources is
insufficient.  Changing that value to 20 helped considerably, and I haven't
seen any more of those exceptions since making the change.

Another problem seems to be an inexorable memory leak.  After only about 5
hours that James precipitously bogged down:

09:11,2420,2115,1,1636,0
09:12,1929,1687,1,1292,0
09:13,1875,1650,0,1252,0
09:14,1370,1213,3,903,0
09:15,1104,970,0,734,0
09:16,1507,1303,0,1010,0
09:17,880,764,0,600,0
09:18,992,878,0,658,0
09:19,918,782,0,605,0
09:20,199,157,6,135,0
09:21,408,369,1,270,0
09:22,417,361,1,288,0
09:23,209,182,4,139,0
09:24,297,258,5,208,0
09:43,135,116,2,90,0
09:44,163,147,4,113,0

When I looked, I found that the performance loss and increase in exception
rate coincides with loss of free memory eventually causing major swapping.
I don't know if we have any memory leaks related to these exceptions,
although it is certainly possible.  IBM doesn't appear to provide a nice
stock way to look at that, so I'll go back to heap profiling with the Sun
JVM and see if I can spot anything.  I had not in previous attempts.  If any
one else is using JDBC and wants to help, you can add

  -Xrunhprof:heap=sites,file=/home/james/logs/heap.log

to the RUN_CMD in phoenix.sh.

Another facet of the problem is that even after exiting the JVM, I'm not
recovering as much free memory as I think I should.  Even if I restart
mysql.  I'll do some testing on RH 8.0 with a newer version of mysql (I'm
running the last binary build that was RH 6.2 compatible).

I have no problem with switching to a mature connection pool.  Danny has
one, I've been using mine for a few years, and, of course, there is Commons
DBCP.  Personally, I agree with the philosophy of using Commons whenever
reasonable.  However, I don't believe that we're planning to adopt that
change until v3, right?  A question remains: do we want to make any changes,
e.g., add replace the pooling loop in JdbcDataSource.getConnection() with
wait()/notify() logic?  I'm still ambivalent unless I can pin it down as the
absolute cause of a defect.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Serge Knystautas [mailto:sergek@;lokitech.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:13
To: James Developers List
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] James Interrupted (and Exceptions)

Danny Angus wrote:
>>During testing of Peter's interrupt() patch, I did some testing by turning
>>off the database server during operation.  That didn't require his
>>particular patch, but turning the server back on (and watching James NOT
>>reconnect) reminds me that we need to work on reconnecting with
>>the database
>>(not for rev 2.1).
>
>
> I have a database connection pool package which does re-connect, if this
isn't a config issue I'll compare mordred's logic with my own and see whats
what.
>
> d.

Mordred's logic is pretty weak.  At this point I would suggest wrapping
an Avalon configuration around DBCP and use that since it can also
expose javax.sql.DataSource via JNDI, which for my money would be the
best way to let mailets get database connections in a standard way.

--
Serge Knystautas
Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com

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Build Error (newbie question)

Hi all,

I built the CVS version of James on my local server and it worked great. I'm
trying to build it on the production server and I'm getting this error:

--- snip --
bash-2.03# ./build.sh

James Build System
---
./build.sh: ANT_HOME=: is not an identifier
--- snip ---

I don't have ANT_HOME defined in either of my environments.

OS Local: Mandrake Linux 2.4
OS Production: Solaris 8/Intel

JDK Both: Sun 1.4.0_01

Checked both out from cvs fresh after Peter Goldstein's message about
commiting Phoenix 4.0.1

Thanks for any help,
Kenny Smith


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RE: Build Error (newbie question)


Kenny,

Can you please step through the build.sh script to determine the line
that is generating the problem?

--Peter

> -Original Message-
> From: Kenny Smith [mailto:kenny@;journalscape.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:03 PM
> To: James Dev
> Subject: Build Error (newbie question)
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I built the CVS version of James on my local server and it worked
great.
> I'm
> trying to build it on the production server and I'm getting this
error:
> 
> --- snip --
> bash-2.03# ./build.sh
> 
> James Build System
> ---
> ./build.sh: ANT_HOME=: is not an identifier
> --- snip ---
> 
> I don't have ANT_HOME defined in either of my environments.
> 
> OS Local: Mandrake Linux 2.4
> OS Production: Solaris 8/Intel
> 
> JDK Both: Sun 1.4.0_01
> 
> Checked both out from cvs fresh after Peter Goldstein's message about
> commiting Phoenix 4.0.1
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> Kenny Smith
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:    [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

Danny,

If they'd give us the license, great.  If not, I guess we can either keep
the current one, or just tell people to download.

I prefer that if we have a binary distro, that people actually be able to
use it out of the box, so to speak.  But I don't particularly like having to
distribute a backlevel driver due to license reasons.  Although at the
moment, the new driver is only in beta.

The new driver is substantially enhanced, especially with MySQL v4.  I'm
running tests with it now (as of about an hour ago).  Found that ext/ didn't
work, but lib/ does.  I changed config.xml to refer to
com.mysql.jdbc.Driver, rather than the old name, so that I wouldn't have to
worry about the jar in the sar.

Still trying to find out where some of the missing memory is going.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@;apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 17:20
To: James Developers List
Subject: RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License


I've spoken to mark about this, we can continue to provide the last mm.mysql
version under LGPL, given that why do you think we need to upgrade?
I've got a mail address off mark for the relevant guy to talk to, give me a
good reason and I will, my own thoughts are that a)jars in cvs aren't good,
b) licence issues are a PITA and best avoided where possible.

d.

> -Original Message-
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@;devtech.com]
> Sent: 30 October 2002 20:37
> To: James-Dev Mailing List
> Subject: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License
>
>
> Serge,
>
> Would you mind contacting MySQL about v3 of the driver?  I guess we need
> them to provide it under the ASL, rather than the GPL as they are
> currently doing for the new release.
>
>   http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-jdbc.html
>
> If not, we'll have to figure out what we want to do post-2.1 release
>
>   --- Noel


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RE: Build Error (newbie question)

Hi Peter,

I ran an experiement and tried bash instead of sh, and the build seemed to
work as expected. :/

I can definately step through, but I'm not exactly sure how. Can you point
me to the right place to find out?

Thanks for the help,
Kenny Smith
JournalScape.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter M. Goldstein [mailto:peter_m_goldstein@;yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:10 PM
> To: 'James Developers List'
> Subject: RE: Build Error (newbie question)
>
>
>
> Kenny,
>
> Can you please step through the build.sh script to determine the line
> that is generating the problem?
>
> --Peter
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kenny Smith [mailto:kenny@;journalscape.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:03 PM
> > To: James Dev
> > Subject: Build Error (newbie question)
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I built the CVS version of James on my local server and it worked
> great.
> > I'm
> > trying to build it on the production server and I'm getting this
> error:
> >
> > --- snip --
> > bash-2.03# ./build.sh
> >
> > James Build System
> > ---
> > ./build.sh: ANT_HOME=: is not an identifier
> > --- snip ---
> >
> > I don't have ANT_HOME defined in either of my environments.
> >
> > OS Local: Mandrake Linux 2.4
> > OS Production: Solaris 8/Intel
> >
> > JDK Both: Sun 1.4.0_01
> >
> > Checked both out from cvs fresh after Peter Goldstein's message about
> > commiting Phoenix 4.0.1
> >
> > Thanks for any help,
> > Kenny Smith
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:    > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:  > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> 
>


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Re: Build Error (newbie question)

2002-10-30 Thread Philipp Taprogge

Hi!

Kenny Smith wrote:

I ran an experiement and tried bash instead of sh, and the build seemed to
work as expected. :/


You seem to have run into incompatibilities between bash and other 
bourne shells (like sh).
I don't have to build script at hand, but I think this has to do with 
the different way these shells assign values to variables.
the easiest way to fix this would be to insert a hashbang pointing to 
/bin/bash at the top of the script.
Much nicer would be to make the script "sh-complient", if possible.

	Phil



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memory, memory, who's got the memory

Folks,

I am trying to find out what is happening to some memory.  Let me explain.
The test is running James with Sun JVM 1.4.1 on RH 6.2 (2.2.17-14) with
mysql 3.23.42.

When I run free the first time, james and mysql are loaded, but have not
run.  Then I start running Russell Coker's postal test, and take period
checks.  I have removed all the first and last.  Next, I stop postal, wait a
few minutes, and take another look.  Next I shutdown james, and check the
memory.  Finally I stop mysql, restart both mysql and james, and compare
that memory (from cleanly having shutdown both james and mysql), with the
original values from the system.

As best I can tell, free memory is still not being recovered.  TOP doesn't
show it as being held by any particular process.  So where is it?  What am I
missing (other than memory)?  :-)

--- Noel

- james already loaded

$ free
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:257576 175256  82320 150920   5232  57240
-/+ buffers/cache: 112784 144792
Swap:   265032  0 265032

- start postal

$ free
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:257576 184180  73396 151060   5552  57292
-/+ buffers/cache: 121336 136240
Swap:   265032  0 265032
$ free
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:257576 220260  37316 152452  18532  57336
-/+ buffers/cache: 144392 113184
Swap:   265032  0 265032

- stop postal

$ date && free
Wed Oct 30 18:07:57 EST 2002
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:257576 220368  37208 152452  18576  57320
-/+ buffers/cache: 144472 113104
Swap:   265032  0 265032

- stop james

$ date && free
Wed Oct 30 18:09:14 EST 2002
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:257576 190008  67568 142352  18576  57320
-/+ buffers/cache: 114112 143464
Swap:   265032  0 265032

- restart mysql and james

$ date && free
Wed Oct 30 18:13:45 EST 2002
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:257576 206512  51064 152308  18600  57340
-/+ buffers/cache: 130572 127004
Swap:   265032  0 265032

- original james

$ free
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:257576 175256  82320 150920   5232  57240
-/+ buffers/cache: 112784 144792
Swap:   265032  0 265032


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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

2002-10-30 Thread Alan Gerhard



-Original Message-
...
The new driver is substantially enhanced, especially with MySQL v4.  I'm
running tests with it now (as of about an hour ago).  Found that ext/ didn't
work, but lib/ does.  I changed config.xml to refer to
com.mysql.jdbc.Driver, rather than the old name, so that I wouldn't have to
worry about the jar in the sar.

--- Noel


With the current James JDBC functionality, what will we explicitly gain by
implementing this driver ??
I mean, I'm all for getting the latest and all, but there really should be a
reason for doing so; if the old driver no longer support the later SQ:L
versions, well okay, but otherwise 

alan


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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

Alan,

> With the current James JDBC functionality, what will we explicitly gain by
> implementing this driver ??

I'm just planning ahead.  The v3 driver is still in beta, but ought to be
suitable for improved JDBC access in James v3.  Even if the new driver had
some critical bug fixes over the current driver, I'd just as soon re-do the
bug fixes (generally an easy thing to do once you know that a bug exists)
for James v2.1.

In any event, API enhancements aside, the new driver has improved
performance and memory consumption characteristics.

--- Noel


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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

2002-10-30 Thread Alan Gerhard

just a little cautious in getting too much too soon ...

where is the James TODO list of pending enhancements, etc.
Not the wish list nor the bug list, but the list that maps out the James-way to
Enterprise Stardom ??

thanks,
alan

-Original Message-
> With the current James JDBC functionality, what will we explicitly gain by
> implementing this driver ??

I'm just planning ahead.



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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

> where is the James TODO list of pending enhancements, etc.

It is on the TODO list.  :-)

--- Noel

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Re: [VOTE] James as an official Apache project

2002-10-30 Thread David Jenkins

+1 Here


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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

Hi Noel,

> I prefer that if we have a binary distro, that people
> actually be able to use it out of the box, so to speak.
> But I don't particularly like having to distribute a
> backlevel driver due to license reasons.

Well, out-of-the-box-James uses File repositories by default, so an SQL
driver isn't actually neccessary. You can kind of think about it like the
TLS stuff, the Java APIs for secure socket connections isn't distributed
with J2SE, but James supports it (as long as you uncomment it in the
config). You can certainly handle the db driver the same way by requiring
users to have the proper db driver in their classpath.

I've already got the MySQL drivers in my CLASSPATH because I do other work
on my server, so I didn't really need the one distributed in James. I think
it would give me more flexibility also if I wanted to upgrade the version.

Kenny Smith
JournalScape.com


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account manager front end

2002-10-30 Thread Uwe Rosebrock


I am new here and wonder if anybody is playing on a remote/local user 
management front end.
Cheers


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RE: MySQL Driver (Connect/J) License

> I've already got the MySQL drivers in my CLASSPATH because I do other work

Understood.  I like the fact that the new one supports
com.mysql.jdbc.Driver.  It lets the user just drop in a new one without
worrying about the one in our sar.

--- Noel


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App to Update User Data?