Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
I think the biggest problem is in sourceforge.net Because it is owned by Sourceforge, why jboss.org have their own mailing list.. so if i reply to them not to a user of the sender but the list.. I prefer forum, but the list must be active still, until we see the popularity of forum is increase. but, in my country, where the internet connection is suck, to much corruption on telecommunication, btw it is still a suck country. I prefer mailing list still activated. even i used cable modem (own by a conglomerat), fuck them.. imagine.. the cable modem can be disconnect.. without support and explaination.. Please, activate both of it.. I like phpbuilder.com concepet, but i never visit them, i prefer email.. Frans - Original Message - From: "Jason Dillon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "marc fleury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "danch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "David Jencks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:17 PM Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > This was imported from the news group. If this is meant to be user > read-only then we should change its group from jboss.user.faq to jboss.faq, > since we currently only allow users to post to stuff under jboss.user.* > > --jason > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, marc fleury wrote: > > > |Hopefully the new policy that only a few people can post on the FAQ > > |forum will help that. > > > > > > I did set it up that way but saw a random post in there from a user, can I > > ask one of you guys to try and post directly and see if it does post to faq > > or not? I don't know that the security configuration was picked up correctly > > > > BTW, let me know if you want to be added to the moderator faq group, I will > > add you guys > > > > marcf > > | > > | > > |-danch > > | > > | > > |___ > > |JBoss-user mailing list > > |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > > > > ___ > > JBoss-user mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
|My only addition to the debate of the jboss-user mailing list shutdown |is can the folks at JBoss.org please test their website with Opera |and fix it. I have found that I have had to fall back to a windoze |pc running IE in order to get stuff from the site because Opera is |unhappy with the layout. If it is truly an Opera issue then I guess |I can survive. it is an opera only issue and I have a fixed layout for the website I will update the code next week sometime marcf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
My only addition to the debate of the jboss-user mailing list shutdown is can the folks at JBoss.org please test their website with Opera and fix it. I have found that I have had to fall back to a windoze pc running IE in order to get stuff from the site because Opera is unhappy with the layout. If it is truly an Opera issue then I guess I can survive. Thanks, -Kent ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
Dear Marc ! I am not able to polemize with you, but please do not remove mail-list. I simply hate web-based forums. I like simple text-based discussions. And its faster. sincerely Olek - Original Message - From: "marc fleury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Christian Riege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 7:10 PM Subject: RE: FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > |p.s.: marc, i wholeheartedly agree with your statement that jboss-user > |was a waste of time when there were 300+ posts a day -- i don't want > |those times back either. but please please please with sugar on top keep > |"jboss-dev" a mailing list :) > > jboss-user at 300 posts was a waste of time forums will scale in users and > developers. > > jboss-dev is going to be mirrored on the forums so you will be able to > either participate from mail or participate from the forum, personally I > plan on working from the web. > > See, here I am trying to finish the proxy rewrite/invocation chain rewrite > and I keep popping to read my mail and here I am breaking away and > answering, the forum is better in that way, you go when you want, you use > when you want and since we nntp mirror you still have it. You want to be > notified as a user when your answer is up? you will have that feature. > > So even for jboss-dev which is the list that has 300 mails per day these > days and is becoming a pain and a jungle, it might be interesting to try to > forum formula. > > Look the forum is already a success with more traffic than this list ever > saw, and it still has a LOT of room to grow, you don't feel overwhelmed in > the forums, everyone is happier, you bitch a bit and then you realize it > just is a bit better really, lost stuff gained stuff... > > Finally the forums are RIGHT THERE, in YOUR FACE, you just click once you > downloaded and BAM you in the middle of the maelstrom, the energy, the > people, right now there is a gap website/list and I want to do away with > this, this is trully powerful, do you realize that folks will be able to see > the developers be right next to them, that stuff will SO ALIVE it will blow > everybody's mind away, they will WANT to be there and help and what not, > trust I know these things, I know "marketing" of our project and software... > it is going to blow everyone away to see dev working LIVE! no-one else can > do this, I hope it will work > > marcf > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: NNTP gateway? Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
We are still trying to work out some kinks with the NNTP mirror, once that has been handled we will. --jason On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Reynir Hübner wrote: > great!!! > > promote this and most people will be happy.. ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
|p.s.: marc, i wholeheartedly agree with your statement that jboss-user |was a waste of time when there were 300+ posts a day -- i don't want |those times back either. but please please please with sugar on top keep |"jboss-dev" a mailing list :) jboss-user at 300 posts was a waste of time forums will scale in users and developers. jboss-dev is going to be mirrored on the forums so you will be able to either participate from mail or participate from the forum, personally I plan on working from the web. See, here I am trying to finish the proxy rewrite/invocation chain rewrite and I keep popping to read my mail and here I am breaking away and answering, the forum is better in that way, you go when you want, you use when you want and since we nntp mirror you still have it. You want to be notified as a user when your answer is up? you will have that feature. So even for jboss-dev which is the list that has 300 mails per day these days and is becoming a pain and a jungle, it might be interesting to try to forum formula. Look the forum is already a success with more traffic than this list ever saw, and it still has a LOT of room to grow, you don't feel overwhelmed in the forums, everyone is happier, you bitch a bit and then you realize it just is a bit better really, lost stuff gained stuff... Finally the forums are RIGHT THERE, in YOUR FACE, you just click once you downloaded and BAM you in the middle of the maelstrom, the energy, the people, right now there is a gap website/list and I want to do away with this, this is trully powerful, do you realize that folks will be able to see the developers be right next to them, that stuff will SO ALIVE it will blow everybody's mind away, they will WANT to be there and help and what not, trust I know these things, I know "marketing" of our project and software... it is going to blow everyone away to see dev working LIVE! no-one else can do this, I hope it will work marcf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
hi, sorry for the off-topic but a) i couldn't resist further on commenting and b) this list is going to be gone in a few [ days | weeks | months ] anyways. On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 17:41, marc fleury wrote: > true man, my mailer (outlook) is dead dead dead, it runs *by itself* on a > win2000 pro laptop 500mhz and 128 meg ram and teh machine is just so > unstable (after 18 month of abuse) that I need to reinstall everything in > the coming days. so the reason we're disbanding the mailing lists is that one person cannot cope with his e-mail? > Outlook is good but doesn't "scale" in time. It's by far the best for spreading worms, agreed :). > The forums do scale, we have already 3 times more "users" of the forums > than we ever had of the mailing lists when we were going crazy with it > and the forums *really* have room to grow, that is the scalability I > was looking for they are scalable, true. but i think that this scalability has absolutely nothing to do with the number of users but with the behaviour of the users. using a mailing-list its ever-so-easy to just hit the reply button and hack away. this holds especially true for the "me too" types of messages. a forum avoids this as the effort to "just reply" is a lot harder. the delay between hitting "reply" and actually typing away is not .2 microseconds but more in the vicinity of 2-5 seconds. the same holds true for actually sending the reply (again, with the forum there is a built-in delay which a lot of people find very uncomfortable). i've made this experience with various forums which are cross-gated to mailing lists. the traffic that is being generated by people posting via the web to the forum in relation to the traffic generated by people on the list is roughly 1:10. so this is a Good Thing(tm). Now on to the bad thing: personally i hate forums. they are a burden to use. reading a forum takes me about 5-10 times longer (reaching up to 20-30 times when on a dial-up connection) than reading the same messages via my e-mail client. a forum also doesn't support proper threading, marking of messages, etc. pp. its not a case i have with Jive in particular. i have this case with *every* web-based forum. i appreciate the effort that goes into Jive to make it easier/quicker to use but i think its a dead-end at least if you're talking about the browser-based frontend. i therefore really like the effort you're putting into making the forums available via NNTP. this way both sides of the ocean that is user-land will be happy. thanks for listening + keep up the good work, christian p.s.: marc, i wholeheartedly agree with your statement that jboss-user was a waste of time when there were 300+ posts a day -- i don't want those times back either. but please please please with sugar on top keep "jboss-dev" a mailing list :) msg12999/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
true man, my mailer (outlook) is dead dead dead, it runs *by itself* on a win2000 pro laptop 500mhz and 128 meg ram and teh machine is just so unstable (after 18 month of abuse) that I need to reinstall everything in the coming days. Outlook is good but doesn't "scale" in time. The forums do scale, we have already 3 times more "users" of the forums than we ever had of the mailing lists when we were going crazy with it and the forums *really* have room to grow, that is the scalability I was looking for marcf |-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Sojan |Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:16 AM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: Re: FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown | | | |Ever since this issue was around here, I wondered why marc essentially |doesnt like mailing lists. Now everything is clear: | |==> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) | |just kidding marc ;-) | |so long |Peter | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
Ever since this issue was around here, I wondered why marc essentially doesnt like mailing lists. Now everything is clear: ==> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) just kidding marc ;-) so long Peter ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
This was imported from the news group. If this is meant to be user read-only then we should change its group from jboss.user.faq to jboss.faq, since we currently only allow users to post to stuff under jboss.user.* --jason On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, marc fleury wrote: > |Hopefully the new policy that only a few people can post on the FAQ > |forum will help that. > > > I did set it up that way but saw a random post in there from a user, can I > ask one of you guys to try and post directly and see if it does post to faq > or not? I don't know that the security configuration was picked up correctly > > BTW, let me know if you want to be added to the moderator faq group, I will > add you guys > > marcf > | > | > |-danch > | > | > |___ > |JBoss-user mailing list > |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, marc fleury wrote: > |Hopefully the new policy that only a few people can post on the FAQ > |forum will help that. > > I did set it up that way but saw a random post in there from a user, can I > ask one of you guys to try and post directly and see if it does post to faq > or not? I don't know that the security configuration was picked up correctly I just tried and got a "You are not authorized to perform the action you attempted" message. thats what you want right? cheers dim ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
|Hopefully the new policy that only a few people can post on the FAQ |forum will help that. I did set it up that way but saw a random post in there from a user, can I ask one of you guys to try and post directly and see if it does post to faq or not? I don't know that the security configuration was picked up correctly BTW, let me know if you want to be added to the moderator faq group, I will add you guys marcf | | |-danch | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
on 1-12-04 19.23, David Jencks at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hmmm. heres another idea for a useful jboss demo... a jsp/ejb/db wiki with > notifications and new content navigation. Yes *** and lets try have a plugable "sift index" for quick/smart search ! ... ? intergrated together with Jive ! ... ? ... /peter_f ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
David Jencks wrote: >> > > Unfortunately, I think both email and the forums are kind of awful. > Possibly a wiki would be better, I don't know. > > I did get tired of the hundreds of emails every day on jboss-user. > > If the forum could-- > > notify you when something new in a forum (not a thread) showed up > > had a better "next unread" function > > had a better way of editing answers so a body of correct answers with > appropriate detail could develop. Hopefully the new policy that only a few people can post on the FAQ forum will help that. -danch ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
On 2001.12.04 08:21:47 -0500 Kristoffer Larsson wrote: > On 4 Dec 2001, Pavel P. Tcholakov wrote: > > > > We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. > > > > I completely agree. Mailing lists are a much less intrusive form of > > Please re-consider this decision. > > I am right behind Pavel here. Mailing lists use the "push" tenhnique, > while forums use the "pull" technique, i.e., as a user of these ways > of communication you don't have to "do anything" to receive answers > and questions in a mailing list, whereas you have to actively log on > www.jboss.org and repeatedly refresh the web page and search for new > questions and answer. Forums are great when you need to search > through their archives, but if you just want an answer to a simple > question you can just check your mail every now and then and see if > something has turned up in the mailinglist. > > Both of these ways of communications are needed. Don't close this > list. > > Kristoffer Larsson Unfortunately, I think both email and the forums are kind of awful. Possibly a wiki would be better, I don't know. I did get tired of the hundreds of emails every day on jboss-user. If the forum could-- notify you when something new in a forum (not a thread) showed up had a better "next unread" function had a better way of editing answers so a body of correct answers with appropriate detail could develop. I'd be happier with it. Wikis are supposed to be good at the last, but I don't know if they can do any kind of notification or selection for new content. I found a very simple jsp based wiki that just uses files, it works fine with jetty/jboss. It has ___NO___ decoration a la jboss website. Anyone think we should try it? Hmmm. heres another idea for a useful jboss demo... a jsp/ejb/db wiki with notifications and new content navigation. david jencks > > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
AW: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi Edson, you are right in your conclusion, but i said before: this discussion on leaving the mailing list untouched is quite old. A lot of email has been sent in favour to leave the mailing list as it is. Marc always responded that he can not make all of us happy and that he stands like a rock on shutting the list down and moving us over to forums; for those of us who don't want to move, a strong unoffical list would perhaps be a better solution than moving to the forums. This list is unlikely to be ignored by the jboss group guys, so instead of bugging Marc with something he has not been likely to do for the last 4-5 months it is perhaps better to put up a different solution. this is only a suggestion and could be better than nothing. jan - -- Jan Heise / Tel: +49-163-4803237 / E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 16:32 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown Of course, the principal point of this list is that it is looked from time-to-time (if not every time) by official people (like Marc), and then they can get some felling about users have difficulty or will put in a wish list... Putting this list in a non-oficial or non monitored list will put it in the same way that has put the Interbase mailing list at Mers (when the official developers don't intervine more, the people lose the interest in the list, since some problems are really complicated to be answered by other users, and then they came generally repeating same questions, because no one has answered for the first time). And having the list a "bogus project-name in anywhere" will make the list to not gain new readers... Just loose existing... I really ask for Marc to not shutdown this list, nor move them to a forum approach. It's a really useful work tool for me, and I think that is useful to many, many other people too. Thanks, Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter - - Original Message - From: "Jan Heise" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kristoffer Larsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: AW: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > hi all, > > i'm also a big fan of this mailing list although i'm mostly > lurking in the background. the pro and contra has been discussed > a while ago but Marc obviously does not want to leave the list > intact. i think it should not be a big problem for us to move the > list to a different location under some bogus project-name, > that way the list will obviously lose the 'official' status and > perhaps will also lose some members and will not gain too many > new members as i think we would not get linked on the jboss > homepage and so on... but we would have our mailing list. > i hope this is not too offensive to some of the guys but it > would definitely end this discussion. (or now starts an even bigger > one). > > just a thought, > > jan > > > - -- > Jan Heise / Tel: +49-163-4803237 / E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - -Ursprungliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von > Kristoffer > Larsson > Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 14:22 > An: Pavel P. Tcholakov > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Betreff: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > > On 4 Dec 2001, Pavel P. Tcholakov wrote: > > > > We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. > > > > I completely agree. Mailing lists are a much less intrusive form > > of Please re-consider this decision. > > I am right behind Pavel here. Mailing lists use the "push" > tenhnique, while forums use the "pull" technique, i.e., as a user > of these ways of communication you don't have to "do anything" to > receive answers and questions in a mailing list, whereas you have > to actively log on www.jboss.org and repeatedly refresh the web > page and search for new questions and answer. Forums are great when > you need to search > through their archives, but if you just want an answer to a simple > question you can just check your mail every now and then and see if > something has turned up in the mailinglist. > > Both of these ways of communications are needed. Don't close this > list. > > Kristoffer Larsson > > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: PGP 7.0.4 > &
RE: NNTP gateway? Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
great!!! promote this and most people will be happy.. -r -Original Message- From: Jesper Rasmussen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 4. desember 2001 14:38 To: David Ward Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: NNTP gateway? Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown But doesn't such a thing exist? I have access to it through nntp.jboss.org I havent posted, but reading works fine. cheers Jesper David Ward wrote: > I think that NNTP access to the forums would make everyone happy. Those > who like the web interface can surf to the forums; those who prefer the > mailing list can use their mail tool of choice to read NNTP. Everyone > wins! > > David > > -- > > > Maurice le Rutte wrote: > >> Is there a way to use NNTP to read the forums? Web-based forum >> browsing is >> very troublesome. >> >> Maurice. >> - Original Message - >> From: "Bill Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Tuesday, 04 December, 2001 5:18 AM >> Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown >> >> >> >>> Oh well, guess I'm never answering another user question againWhy >>> shut >>> off the user lists? Do you pay for it? >>> >>> >>>> -Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury >>>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:24 PM >>>> To: marc fleury; Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net >>>> Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown >>>> >>>> >>>> jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help >>>> it is more >>>> structured and less invasive, >>>> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> JBoss-user mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user >> > > > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: NNTP gateway? Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
But doesn't such a thing exist? I have access to it through nntp.jboss.org I havent posted, but reading works fine. cheers Jesper David Ward wrote: > I think that NNTP access to the forums would make everyone happy. Those > who like the web interface can surf to the forums; those who prefer the > mailing list can use their mail tool of choice to read NNTP. Everyone > wins! > > David > > -- > > > Maurice le Rutte wrote: > >> Is there a way to use NNTP to read the forums? Web-based forum >> browsing is >> very troublesome. >> >> Maurice. >> - Original Message - >> From: "Bill Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Tuesday, 04 December, 2001 5:18 AM >> Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown >> >> >> >>> Oh well, guess I'm never answering another user question againWhy >>> shut >>> off the user lists? Do you pay for it? >>> >>> >>>> -Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury >>>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:24 PM >>>> To: marc fleury; Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net >>>> Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown >>>> >>>> >>>> jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help >>>> it is more >>>> structured and less invasive, >>>> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> JBoss-user mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user >> > > > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
FW: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
it seems i forgot to put the list marcf |-Original Message- |From: Jozsa Kristof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] |Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:17 AM |To: marc fleury |Subject: PRIVATE: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown | | |On Tue, Dec 04, 2001 at 08:40:54AM -0500, marc fleury wrote: |> |Mailing lists are a proven stable and useful way for user-user or either |> |user-developer talk. They're used everywhere as the best |solution for these |> |tasks. Forums _will_not_ever_ provide the same functionality |and usefulness |> |what mailing-lists do. Beside, noone can see a reason why shouldn't |> |jboss-user stay alive; if you shut down the list, I even |suggest starting a |> |new one either on a free mailing-list server, or any big server of |> |ours around. |> | |> |We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. |> |> it is a duplicate with the forums, | |true | |> and the forums provide a good breakdown of the topics | |..but miss the push-functionality of the mailing-lists | |> (going to make them better soon). mail didn't work for many developers |> (just too much stuff) while the online stuff has 'security' and scott |> reads that a lot etc etc. right now i want to promote one place for |> answer online. | |considered the NNTP-based web interface? might be a one size fits all |solution. | |> for the sheer volume, the developers were fed up and many users |complaining |> of 'posted this no-one answered', what you see now is the goody |of being 5-6 |> to post everyday (as opposed to 300 like we did one day) and you get an |> answer. | |yeah right.. just like an irc channel with over 150 people, etc. | | |> here is what we can do, the list remains but is closed, essentially |> subscriptions are gone, it means those of you that are here can use this |> list if you wish but the rest are moving online, |> |> take care, we can't please everybody | |okay, thanks for your wise decision. Please post your mail to the |jboss-user |list as well (i think i just got it myself), this will both make them happy |and quiet about that topic, which just starts to get real hot and flamey. | |Christopher |-- |.Digital.Yearning.for.Networked.Assassination.and.Xenocide ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
Of course, the principal point of this list is that it is looked from time-to-time (if not every time) by official people (like Marc), and then they can get some felling about users have difficulty or will put in a wish list... Putting this list in a non-oficial or non monitored list will put it in the same way that has put the Interbase mailing list at Mers (when the official developers don't intervine more, the people lose the interest in the list, since some problems are really complicated to be answered by other users, and then they came generally repeating same questions, because no one has answered for the first time). And having the list a "bogus project-name in anywhere" will make the list to not gain new readers... Just loose existing... I really ask for Marc to not shutdown this list, nor move them to a forum approach. It's a really useful work tool for me, and I think that is useful to many, many other people too. Thanks, Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter - Original Message - From: "Jan Heise" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kristoffer Larsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: AW: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > hi all, > > i'm also a big fan of this mailing list although i'm mostly > lurking in the background. the pro and contra has been discussed > a while ago but Marc obviously does not want to leave the list > intact. i think it should not be a big problem for us to move the > list to a different location under some bogus project-name, > that way the list will obviously lose the 'official' status and > perhaps will also lose some members and will not gain too many > new members as i think we would not get linked on the jboss > homepage and so on... but we would have our mailing list. > i hope this is not too offensive to some of the guys but it > would definitely end this discussion. (or now starts an even bigger > one). > > just a thought, > > jan > > > - -- > Jan Heise / Tel: +49-163-4803237 / E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - -Ursprungliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von > Kristoffer > Larsson > Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 14:22 > An: Pavel P. Tcholakov > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Betreff: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > > On 4 Dec 2001, Pavel P. Tcholakov wrote: > > > > We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. > > > > I completely agree. Mailing lists are a much less intrusive form of > > Please re-consider this decision. > > I am right behind Pavel here. Mailing lists use the "push" tenhnique, > while forums use the "pull" technique, i.e., as a user of these ways > of communication you don't have to "do anything" to receive answers > and questions in a mailing list, whereas you have to actively log on > www.jboss.org and repeatedly refresh the web page and search for new > questions and answer. Forums are great when you need to search > through their archives, but if you just want an answer to a simple > question you can just check your mail every now and then and see if > something has turned up in the mailinglist. > > Both of these ways of communications are needed. Don't close this > list. > > Kristoffer Larsson > > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: PGP 7.0.4 > > iQA/AwUBPAzWO5/YNqVvLvLkEQKDfwCg3+0HSgW97dWIvwNEpzlA51lm5ncAnjIn > ZrMGcIeK/P66ww0wMe2LAnYS > =MqNB > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
sorry forgot replyall |-Original Message- |From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] |Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:41 AM |To: Jozsa Kristof |Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown | | ||Mailing lists are a proven stable and useful way for user-user or either ||user-developer talk. They're used everywhere as the best solution |for these ||tasks. Forums _will_not_ever_ provide the same functionality and |usefulness ||what mailing-lists do. Beside, noone can see a reason why shouldn't ||jboss-user stay alive; if you shut down the list, I even suggest |starting a ||new one either on a free mailing-list server, or any big server of ||ours around. || ||We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. | |it is a duplicate with the forums, and the forums provide a good |breakdown of the topics (going to make them better soon). mail |didn't work for many developers (just too much stuff) while the |online stuff has 'security' and scott reads that a lot etc etc. |right now i want to promote one place for answer online. | |see the point is to scale, this list was under heavy criticism 9 |month ago for the sheer volume, the developers were fed up and |many users complaining of 'posted this no-one answered', what you |see now is the goody of being 5-6 to post everyday (as opposed to |300 like we did one day) and you get an answer. | |here is what we can do, the list remains but is closed, |essentially subscriptions are gone, it means those of you that are |here can use this list if you wish but the rest are moving online, | |take care, we can't please everybody | |marcf | || ||Christopher || || ||On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 07:24:27PM -0500, marc fleury wrote: ||> jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help ||it is more ||> structured and less invasive, ||> ||> go! even jboss-dev is going to end up there in the short run ||> ||> marcf ||> ||> |-Original Message- ||> |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ||> |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury ||> |Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:41 PM ||> |To: Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net ||> |Subject: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown ||> | ||> | ||> |it's been in the works for 3 month, jboss-user is going away, ||> | ||> |goodbye and remember i love you ||> | ||> |marcf ||> | ||> | ||> |Marc Fleury ||> |President ||> |JBoss Group, LLC ||> | ||> | ||> | ||> |___ ||> |JBoss-user mailing list ||> |[EMAIL PROTECTED] ||> |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ||> ||> ||> ___ ||> JBoss-user mailing list ||> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ||> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user || ||-- ||.Digital.Yearning.for.Networked.Assassination.and.Xenocide ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
I agree too... this looks like the eternal war between news/mailinglist outlook calendar/quickplace agenda/HR planning/Project ... moreover my opinion is that push/pull is not a problem around what we talk about, but why we are here... push is the ONLY way to make happy peoples help poor guys, anticipate problems, and be informed. pull is the BEST way for poor guys to tell their misery, find previous solution, and track answers... as you see, if one channel must be killed, this is the forum (priority of ONLY against BETTER). why not gateway these two system (not easy I agree) one way would be : -put a threadID in the subject (+content?+headers?), associating a message with the original forum. -invite/force people to send NEW problems/thread only on the forum (no new thread authorized from mail... valid threadID mandatory...) - any answer made from mail or forum send to the right forum thread and to the whole mailing list... - give URL to a message thread in the forum, in the mail message. a nice/hard project... > -Message d'origine- > De: Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Date: mardi 4 décembre 2001 15:11 > À: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Objet: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > > I really love jboss-user list... That solved several problems in my > config/installations. > I can talk with more people that are going trhought same > problems that I > have. > If the mailing list stops, the information will not be delivered in my > hands. I will have that to search they, what I will not be > able to make due > to time. ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
AW: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi all, i'm also a big fan of this mailing list although i'm mostly lurking in the background. the pro and contra has been discussed a while ago but Marc obviously does not want to leave the list intact. i think it should not be a big problem for us to move the list to a different location under some bogus project-name, that way the list will obviously lose the 'official' status and perhaps will also lose some members and will not gain too many new members as i think we would not get linked on the jboss homepage and so on... but we would have our mailing list. i hope this is not too offensive to some of the guys but it would definitely end this discussion. (or now starts an even bigger one). just a thought, jan - -- Jan Heise / Tel: +49-163-4803237 / E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von Kristoffer Larsson Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 14:22 An: Pavel P. Tcholakov Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown On 4 Dec 2001, Pavel P. Tcholakov wrote: > > We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. > > I completely agree. Mailing lists are a much less intrusive form of > Please re-consider this decision. I am right behind Pavel here. Mailing lists use the "push" tenhnique, while forums use the "pull" technique, i.e., as a user of these ways of communication you don't have to "do anything" to receive answers and questions in a mailing list, whereas you have to actively log on www.jboss.org and repeatedly refresh the web page and search for new questions and answer. Forums are great when you need to search through their archives, but if you just want an answer to a simple question you can just check your mail every now and then and see if something has turned up in the mailinglist. Both of these ways of communications are needed. Don't close this list. Kristoffer Larsson ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.0.4 iQA/AwUBPAzWO5/YNqVvLvLkEQKDfwCg3+0HSgW97dWIvwNEpzlA51lm5ncAnjIn ZrMGcIeK/P66ww0wMe2LAnYS =MqNB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: NNTP gateway? Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
I think that NNTP access to the forums would make everyone happy. Those who like the web interface can surf to the forums; those who prefer the mailing list can use their mail tool of choice to read NNTP. Everyone wins! David -- Maurice le Rutte wrote: > Is there a way to use NNTP to read the forums? Web-based forum browsing is > very troublesome. > > Maurice. > - Original Message - > From: "Bill Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, 04 December, 2001 5:18 AM > Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > > >>Oh well, guess I'm never answering another user question againWhy shut >>off the user lists? Do you pay for it? >> >> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury >>>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:24 PM >>>To: marc fleury; Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net >>>Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown >>> >>> >>>jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help >>>it is more >>>structured and less invasive, >>> > > > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
On 4 Dec 2001, Pavel P. Tcholakov wrote: > > We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. > > I completely agree. Mailing lists are a much less intrusive form of > Please re-consider this decision. I am right behind Pavel here. Mailing lists use the "push" tenhnique, while forums use the "pull" technique, i.e., as a user of these ways of communication you don't have to "do anything" to receive answers and questions in a mailing list, whereas you have to actively log on www.jboss.org and repeatedly refresh the web page and search for new questions and answer. Forums are great when you need to search through their archives, but if you just want an answer to a simple question you can just check your mail every now and then and see if something has turned up in the mailinglist. Both of these ways of communications are needed. Don't close this list. Kristoffer Larsson ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
I really love jboss-user list... That solved several problems in my config/installations. I can talk with more people that are going trhought same problems that I have. If the mailing list stops, the information will not be delivered in my hands. I will have that to search they, what I will not be able to make due to time. Please, don't shutdown jboss-user maling list!!! Thanks, Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter - Original Message - From: "Jozsa Kristof" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > Please don't do that. > > Mailing lists are a proven stable and useful way for user-user or either > user-developer talk. They're used everywhere as the best solution for these > tasks. Forums _will_not_ever_ provide the same functionality and usefulness > what mailing-lists do. Beside, noone can see a reason why shouldn't > jboss-user stay alive; if you shut down the list, I even suggest starting a > new one either on a free mailing-list server, or any big server of ours around. > > We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. > > Christopher > > > On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 07:24:27PM -0500, marc fleury wrote: > > jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help it is more > > structured and less invasive, > > > > go! even jboss-dev is going to end up there in the short run > > > > marcf > > > > |-Original Message- > > |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury > > |Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:41 PM > > |To: Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net > > |Subject: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > | > > | > > |it's been in the works for 3 month, jboss-user is going away, > > | > > |goodbye and remember i love you > > | > > |marcf > > | > > | > > |Marc Fleury > > |President > > |JBoss Group, LLC > > | > > | > > | > > |___ > > |JBoss-user mailing list > > |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > > > > ___ > > JBoss-user mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > -- > .Digital.Yearning.for.Networked.Assassination.and.Xenocide > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 14:10, Jozsa Kristof wrote: > We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. I completely agree. Mailing lists are a much less intrusive form of communicatoin and you will find that many people prefer mailing lists to forums; if you close the official mailing lists some people will not bother to visit the forums at all and you will lose potential contributions in the form of code, user support and general knowledge. Please re-consider this decision. Pavel. ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
NNTP gateway? Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
Is there a way to use NNTP to read the forums? Web-based forum browsing is very troublesome. Maurice. - Original Message - From: "Bill Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, 04 December, 2001 5:18 AM Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > Oh well, guess I'm never answering another user question againWhy shut > off the user lists? Do you pay for it? > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury > > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:24 PM > > To: marc fleury; Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > > > > > jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help > > it is more > > structured and less invasive, ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
Please don't do that. Mailing lists are a proven stable and useful way for user-user or either user-developer talk. They're used everywhere as the best solution for these tasks. Forums _will_not_ever_ provide the same functionality and usefulness what mailing-lists do. Beside, noone can see a reason why shouldn't jboss-user stay alive; if you shut down the list, I even suggest starting a new one either on a free mailing-list server, or any big server of ours around. We - the users of JBoss - do need that kind of communication. Christopher On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 07:24:27PM -0500, marc fleury wrote: > jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help it is more > structured and less invasive, > > go! even jboss-dev is going to end up there in the short run > > marcf > > |-Original Message- > |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury > |Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:41 PM > |To: Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net > |Subject: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > | > | > |it's been in the works for 3 month, jboss-user is going away, > | > |goodbye and remember i love you > | > |marcf > | > | > |Marc Fleury > |President > |JBoss Group, LLC > | > | > | > |___ > |JBoss-user mailing list > |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user -- .Digital.Yearning.for.Networked.Assassination.and.Xenocide ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
Oh well, guess I'm never answering another user question againWhy shut off the user lists? Do you pay for it? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:24 PM > To: marc fleury; Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net > Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > > > jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help > it is more > structured and less invasive, > > go! even jboss-dev is going to end up there in the short run > > marcf > > |-Original Message- > |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury > |Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:41 PM > |To: Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net > |Subject: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown > | > | > |it's been in the works for 3 month, jboss-user is going away, > | > |goodbye and remember i love you > | > |marcf > | > | > |Marc Fleury > |President > |JBoss Group, LLC > | > | > | > |___ > |JBoss-user mailing list > |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
jboss-user is shutting down, go to the forums for your free help it is more structured and less invasive, go! even jboss-dev is going to end up there in the short run marcf |-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury |Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:41 PM |To: Jboss-User@Lists. Sourceforge. Net |Subject: [JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown | | |it's been in the works for 3 month, jboss-user is going away, | |goodbye and remember i love you | |marcf | | |Marc Fleury |President |JBoss Group, LLC | | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
[JBoss-user] jboss-user shutdown
it's been in the works for 3 month, jboss-user is going away, goodbye and remember i love you marcf Marc Fleury President JBoss Group, LLC ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
