Re: [jdev] MS + XMPP
Hi, that's nice, but from what I understand, this is only through the use of their gateway, which itself needs Office Communication server, and in the end of the requirements Office Communicator (client). Office Communication if some kind of company's private MSN server, if I understand... So this is only for use in a corporate environment, very specific use, and there is still no communication between a common MSN id (with the "common user" MSN client) and a JID (and interoperability, even less). Am I wrong? I don't know very well MSN technologies. If not, this is still very limited, but at least it means that Microsoft begins to consider the XMPP protocol, thus maybe do they have other related projects under work. Who knows: they may announce in a few monthes that they decided to go for the standard. It would be awesome. :-D (Am I dreaming awake? :p) Someday real IM interoperability may exist! Note also that what stroke me is sadly that first all these press release infos differentiate Gtalk from XMPP, second that they associate XMPP to Cisco. Ok I know that it is typical "corporate" announcement (at least it looks better for people who don't see further than their nose... For me, reaching an approved Internet standard would be far more corporate, or rather far more serious), but even though I got used to read this kind of association, I still jump off the desktop every time I read these simplifications. Anyway good point. Let's see in the future now. :-) Bye. Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=2704 ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
[jdev] out of scope: Quakelive would use XMPP
Hi all, I don't know exactly where to post this info, so sorry because it is a little out of scope in jdev. But I am forwarding a message read from a Linux community french website: https://linuxfr.org/~Skateinmars/27735.html Apparently the QuakeLive game ( http://www.quakelive.com/noflash.html ) would use XMPP as the guy reported that during a game launch, he can read "Waiting on XMPP Authentication". Then he could find this email from an idsoftware dev which seems to corroborate the XMPP hypothesis: https://mailman.ik.nu/pipermail/twisted-jabber/2008-May/000149.html Now even games from big companies are using XMPP! Nice, isn't it? Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1310 ___ JDev mailing list FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/discussion-lists/jdev-faq Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] New to Jabber
Hi, this list is for development discussion. This is rather used by developpers of the XMPP servers, clients and others. If you want help on installation/administration and maybe feedbacks from other organisations having already installed XMPP related services, I guess one of these two lists must be better: - operators: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/operators - jadmin: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jadmin Regards, Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1262 ___ JDev mailing list FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/discussion-lists/jdev-faq Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] Firefox plugin for bookmarks through XMPP
Hi, Norman Rasmussen;5588 Wrote: > > Can you not delegate connecting to the server via Sameplace? That > way > either the user configures the resource to -1 to not receive messages, > or to > a positive value, and expects to receive messages - which Sameplace can > then > display. > > -- > - Norman Rasmussen Yes I could do something like this but it would fix the issue only for people using sameplace! And I don't want to force people to use it. My plugin is made to work with the xmpp4moz library only, and sameplace is not one of its dependency. Anyway I just saw by coming back home that the xmpp4moz developper has just answered to my bug report and said it is already fixed in the current branch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sameplace/+bug/306320 So now we just have to wait for the next release of xmpp4moz plugin, then my plugin should not be any risk for losing messages... unless a client send a text message to the specific xbookmarks resource. Fortunately in my few tests until now, I have not encountered the case (tested only with Gajim and Pidgin though) and if you see this, just tell the client's developpers so that they fix this behaviour. Tchouss'! Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1203 ___ JDev mailing list FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/discussion-lists/jdev-faq Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
[jdev] Firefox plugin for bookmarks through XMPP
Hi, I have begun a small plugin for Firefox which enables to store one's bookmarks on pubsub nodes (XEP-0048): https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/9970 Note that it requires the library xmpp4moz (which is also a Fx plugin) to work. Currently the plugin works if you have an account on a ejabberd server at least. I could not on Tigase or Openfire. I think I may know why but I must do further tests first. So if you have a jabber.org account, it will work for instance. The add-on is still basic, but the XEP is as well. Currently you can "only" store your bookmarks all in the same level (no category/tag, etc.). Still it is working: - Once installed, through the add-on page, you click "Preference" to configure with your JID. - Once configured, on any page, you will have a button (yes I know, there should be a menu item, but I made temporarily to work around a Firefox bug. I will improve this later) on the context menu (click right on any page) and a small icon representing a bookmark (with the XMPP logo) on the right of the status-bar. You can click right on this icon as well to get the same menu. The number on the right of the icon is the number of saved bookmarks. - Then from this menu, you will be able to "connect". (note that this is only the first time. But once the plugin is configured, it will connect automatically at each run of Fx). - Once connected, the contextual menu will be different. You will have the possibility to "bookmark this page (XMPP)". If you don't have this menu item, then it means that you are not well connected. Check your JID parameters. By clicking it, the default page title will be displayed in a dialog box and propose to change it before saving. - Each time you add a bookmark, it will be added to the same menu. You will have then 3 possible actions with your mouse: * left click: it opens the bookmark in the current tab; * middle: it opens in a new tab; * right: it opens a dialog box giving the possibility to rename the bookmark or to delete it. -- To be improved: - I want to add a category/group system for storing bookmarks into groups/subgroups. - I want to add a tag system (different from group. You can give tags like "important", "to read", etc.). - I would like to add a "comments" system to make further (and longer that the title) comments on a bookmark. - I would like to propose a system for sharing bookmarks, read-only, or else by enabling several users to add bookmarks (white list, roster groups, etc.), by using the right system of pubsub. - Gestion of several separated bookmarks (which may have differents rights, some shared, some private, etc. for instance) for the same JID. For these 5 items in particular, I think the XEP could be improved because it is just too basic. So I will propose some changes. If anyone wants to propose what is nice in shared bookmarks, don't hesitate... :-) - Related to Firefox, as you have noticed, I am using a completely separated bookmark system than the core one. Yet the development part is not so complicated (Fx has a good API to interface with its bookmarks). There are several reasons to this: * One of them is that if ever you can use Fx but cannot connect to your Jabber server, then it could cause a synchronisation issue. And dealing with this can be complicated. * Another is that this plugin is stocking no bookmark information on the client side. Everything is on the server only and just temporary displayed in the browser. I like this idea (like you can be on another computer with the plugin and just set your jid to have your bookmarks a few minutes. Then you remove your jid and it is erased). Using the Fx bookmarks API would really complicate this. So this is to be thought of... And finally there is only one problem with this plugin. Because of a bug in xmpp4moz apparently (I reported and wait for developpers' validation/fix or a solution), on connection a presence stanza is sent. I send immediately another with a negative presence so that the plugin should never receive any message (which would be lost). But in the few microseconds between the 2 sent presences, if you had offline messages and no other XMPP chat client opened, I fear the server would forward them to the plugin. Note that it has been tested otherwise that during the normal run of the plugin, when someone send a message to you, the server (at least ejabberd) does not forward the message to the plugin, as expected with a negative priority. It waits for another client to connect. Hence I just need this automatic and unrequested presence stanza not being sent and it will be "secure" (for not losing info)! Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1203 _
Re: [jdev] Worldwide event for the 10th birthday of XMPP
Sander Devrieze;5042 Wrote: > > What about using the Coccinella whiteboard to show the slides in > real-time both to people on the Internet, and at the same time to > people IRL using a big white screen and a projector. Or you can > screens can put outside the building when there are not enough seats > during stpeter's talk ;-) Warning: this setup may not be scalable > enough with stpeter's 500 slides! :D > That's a very good idea. That's the kind of stuff I was proposing in my last email on this topic on the Standards ml... Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1087 ___ JDev mailing list FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/discussion-lists/jdev-faq Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
Re: [jdev] Worldwide event for the 10th birthday of XMPP
Peter Saint-Andre;5036 Wrote: > Do we need to have one IRL meeting in one place? Jabber is an Internet > protocol, why not have an online event? I like Jack's idea of an "open > day" or "open week" Ã* la Ubuntu Open Week. > > Hi, yes but why not both? I think it is nice also to have a physical event which is featured with a online event in the same time. > Perhaps a groupchat would be helpful to discuss? We are currently discussion about this with Florian and Nyco on [EMAIL PROTECTED] . If anyone wants to join... Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1087 ___ JDev mailing list FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/discussion-lists/jdev-faq Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
Re: [jdev] Worldwide event for the 10th birthday of XMPP
Hi, Florian Jensen;5030 Wrote: > I would love to do something. > > I'll be in Brussels over Christmas (including 4th Jan.) and I would be > > happy to join you guys in Paris. > If there's a market for an event in Brussels, I'll be glad to help. > > But personally I think we should have 1 event for Europe. Otherwise it > > gets too spread. And Paris sounds nice. > > Greets, > > Florian Jensen > I personnaly quite agree. I think this would not be as efficient to have many small event that a big event (or 3/4 because world is big, like in USA, Asia, or even eastern Europ, etc.). But if people want to organize one event in their own place, I won't stop them of course. ;-) Anyway if you want to come help us in Paris, this is great. And as a big XMPP user in the professional world, a speech from you can be great too. Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1087 ___ JDev mailing list FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/discussion-lists/jdev-faq Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
[jdev] Worldwide event for the 10th birthday of XMPP
Hi, I copy this message sent to the Standards list because Matthew Wild told jdev would be better, maybe, and because I don't have much answer. Here is the discussion: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1073 As it has been mentionned in some place (among others, here: http://www.jabber.org/web/Secure_Communications_Week ), the 4th of january 2009 will be the 10th birthday of XMPP. I thought it could be a good occasion to organize an event to advertise this protocol. Some wide event, both technical but also generalist would be a good thing, in my opinion. After discussion with some people about this, we conclude that it could be even worldwide (not obligatory exactly at the same time), in different places all over several countries. For my own, for France, I (with the help of anyone wishing to) would be ready to organize one in Paris, not only because it is the capitale of France, but also because I live there. Of course for this to be very interesting and a success, I think that having the help from people from the community but also from the XSF is mandatory. Indeed I think this is worth it only if it is an important event... So first of all, before going further, what do people here think of this idea? Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=1087 ___ JDev mailing list FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/discussion-lists/jdev-faq Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello,
there is a dependency for the SASL authentication: Auth_SASL PEAR module
("pear install Auth_SASL" or install with your distribution's package
manager). If you don't have it and don't have the right to install it,
it is not possible to use because this is the only authentication system
I implemented currently (And only the Digest-MD5 mechanism, I may try to
implement others later).
I am leaving in 2 hours by now! :-)
Jehan
Florian Jensen a écrit :
Hey,
I tried to install it, but got the following error upon activating it.
Plugin could not be activated because it triggered a *fatal error*.
*Warning*: require_once(Auth/SASL/DigestMD5.php) [function.require-once
<http://florianjensen.com/wp-admin/function.require-once>]: failed to
open stream: No such file or directory in
*/var/www/vhosts/florianjensen.com/httpdocs/wp-content/plugins/jabber_feed/xmpp_stream.php*
on line *23*
*Fatal error*: require_once() [function.require
<http://florianjensen.com/wp-admin/function.require>]: Failed opening
required 'Auth/SASL/DigestMD5.php' (include_path='.:.:.:.:') in
*/var/www/vhosts/florianjensen.com/httpdocs/wp-content/plugins/jabber_feed/xmpp_stream.php*
on line *23*
Greets,
Florian Jensen
Jehan wrote:
Hello all,
just to say that the first version of the code is available. It is
working, yet basically, but it is working. I will improve it soon, but
not before 2 weeks because I am leaving in a few hours in holidays.
http://jehan.zemarmot.net/blog/2008/04/01/more-than-just-instant-messaging-publication-and-notification-using-jabberxmpp/
http://svn.wp-plugins.org/jabber-feed/
See you then! I will probably unsubscribe from this ml the time of my
holidays and will subscribe back in 2 weeks because I don't want my
mailbox being overflowed by emails! :-/
Bye.
Jehan
Nick Vidal a écrit :
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Jehan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
So for a blog-like node, you can subscribe to the node but configure
your subscription so that you only receive items with specific tags.
Hi Jehan,
ISS has some ideas on this regard:
http://iss.im
Best regards,
Nick
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello all, just to say that the first version of the code is available. It is working, yet basically, but it is working. I will improve it soon, but not before 2 weeks because I am leaving in a few hours in holidays. http://jehan.zemarmot.net/blog/2008/04/01/more-than-just-instant-messaging-publication-and-notification-using-jabberxmpp/ http://svn.wp-plugins.org/jabber-feed/ See you then! I will probably unsubscribe from this ml the time of my holidays and will subscribe back in 2 weeks because I don't want my mailbox being overflowed by emails! :-/ Bye. Jehan Nick Vidal a écrit : On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Jehan <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: So for a blog-like node, you can subscribe to the node but configure your subscription so that you only receive items with specific tags. Hi Jehan, ISS has some ideas on this regard: http://iss.im Best regards, Nick
Re: [jdev] what would you think of this as an SoC project?
Hello, for info, what do you mean by "analyse chat conversations"? Statistics analysis? Or intelligent analysis of the content (so an AI project)? By the way, about IM logs, I often thought that it would be nice to be able to store your chat history on servers. Indeed I often want to retrieve some conversation but I am not always on the same place, the same computer or simply I use different clients for tests (so even on the same computer I get lost to "where" is this interesting discussion I had with someone). Sometimes also I have to use clients with no log support, or I don't want to store them locally though I don't want them lost. In fact, it would be to XMPP what IMAP is to the emails and enable to separate the content (chat history) from the reader (Jabber client), though they will still have to process the data for displaying, search, etc. What do you think of this? Jehan Greg Wilson writes: Two grad students at U of Toronto have been working this term on a tool to analyze chat conversations (IRC, IM, etc.) and cluster messages into threads. They presented their work this afternoon, and will be doing another presentation on April 9; I think it has promise, especially since they're using incremental algorithms that would be well-suited to real-time execution. They're not going to carry on with it (they have thesis topics picked out, and this ain't it :-), but the long-term goal would be to build something that could plug into various clients, or be used to process logs. Would this make a good project for XMPP SoC? It would require a student who already has some understanding of IR, clustering algorithms, and NLP, but it could help make large chat spaces more usable. I'd be willing to mentor... Thanks, Greg Wilson http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~gvwilson
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello, User Blogging feature wish: * Twitter style blogging * support for tags (so your contacts can opt to subscribe to only a specific tag) * clients will be able to provide a separate interface with history * SoC 2009 project for integration with Wordpress B-) Those sound like good features. Especially tagging. yes the tag support is one of the feature which should definitely be added to the subscription configuration! Indeed they should be a good filter support on items. So for a blog-like node, you can subscribe to the node but configure your subscription so that you only receive items with specific tags. But you can imagine also other kind filters. Like on a selling website, I am looking for a garage close to my home. But I want it not to be too expensive and close to my place. So I could subscribe to a node which is feeded with all new selling announcement, but ask to be notified only by the items in my neighbourhood, and under a given price. I think it would be good to be able to configure a node subscription with detailed filters... Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Moreover it is not just a bandwidth issue, but the real added value of XMPP is the possibility to tune delivery accordingly to presence or resources, thus tuning the feed to the specific context use. Yes this is a great feature of the pubsub node. There is a configuration on both side. On the publishing side, the publisher/creator configure the default options of the node. On the subscriber side, you can either accept default options or choose your own (so if you do not want the payload, but just a notification for instance; or even if you don't want any notification at all, just subscribing to a service without being pinged, etc.). However each time you start using these features you also have to give away little bits of your privacy. The good thing about XMPP is that you always have control about about who you have in your roster and, if privacy in such services becomes a real problem there could be technical solutions (e.g. a local pubsub service which anonimously subscribes to remote nodes and relays them) That's a nice idea. This way you can subscribe without giving your real jid (the redirection is managed by your trusted server). And if the service tries to use a jid a bad way, it may enable to trace which pubsub service it was (if the service had generated some specific jid for each subscription for instance?). Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Interesting project! Though it is more social networking than feed notification (or at least a mix of both). :-) Jehan Nick Vidal writes: Speaking of Psi and a half-baked IM client/feed-reader: http://iss.im/node/5 :) On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Norman Rasmussen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 2:42 PM, jehan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes you are right, the mis-understanding here is that you want several > programs dedicated and I want one program for all [...] > I think the point is that, yes, XMPP can be used for feeds/atom/pubsub, but "Psi the IM application" is not meant to be a feed-reader. If you want to make an XMPP based feed-reader then you're more than welcome, but that's not the focus of the Psi project. The Psi project would rather focus on making one kick-ass IM client, than a half-baked IM client/feed-reader. -- - Norman Rasmussen - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Home page: http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Well, you're trying to fight pubsub spim, but that's only a very small part of the picture. Once your jid is out in the open, it can be used through any channel over XMPP (normal messages, ...). There are efforts to fight spim in general, so I don't think taclking this very specific case is very useful. The fact remains that it is still better to avoid spim than fight it, I don't think unfortunately that a system which will completely avoid spam "a priori" exists. I mean, anyway you can be as careful as you want, unless you really never give your jid, it will finishes to be spread with the time. That's sad, but that's it. My postal mail box also is filled with spam every days and I don't see how to avoid it (I tried to glue some paper saying "no advertisement", but they still put some and the paper finally "disappears"). If ever some day you are disturbed in the phone by "jokers", maybe will you call your phone provider, police, or simply change your phone number... Spammers exist everywhere, for every communication mean, and there is no real mean to stop them, else than stopping communicate (no postal box, no phone, no email, no Jabber). That's sad, but I don't see real way to prevent totally spam, whatever form it takes. And the case I proposed is not so specific. For instance, you can configure your roster (I remember it is somewhere in the rfc) to block some contact, or simply to only accept communication from people in your roster. Of course if you do so, there is still a mean to be spammed: spammer will ask to be added to your roster; so you will be spammed by this kind of request maybe. Of course you can also block this, then you will be the only one able to initiate a roster add. This is annoying but anyway there is no real way of stopping a spammer (you could do filter, but I don't like all these "intelligent" filters because they often do errors). Yet Jabber could propose some configuration of your nodes like this. and there's no real way to avoid it with a push system. The best you can do AFAICT is to do things like introduce a third-party (e.g. your own trusted server) to manage your subscriptions, and let it relay everything, but that would just be moving the problem. That's what I proposed. But no need to have your "own" server, just "A" trusted server (and to change it when you lose your trust in it). If it implements the basic security rules, then it should only send you messages the way you have configured your account (for instance reject any message outside my roster). Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Again, I'm not contesting how useful XMPP/PubSub is for feeds, as opposed to the pull that is currently used. I'm just questioning putting the task of reading feeds in the same program as the one you use to do IM. Apart from the fact that both consist of titles/bodies, and can be carried accross XMPP, these are 2 completely different tasks, and require completely different user interfaces for different types of management (optionally tied together in one encompassing UI, like a webpage or an MDI). Yes you are right, the mis-understanding here is that you want several programs dedicated and I want one program for all (in fact, that's not what I want: I would want rather integration, I don't want to see again XMPP, as a simple user! :p). That's a complicated discussion because I think there is no "solution" because this is not a problem, just a question of viewpoint I guess. So let's stop this discussion for now. Maybe some other day. ;-) By the way, the most important disadvantage of push is probably privacy: with push, you have to provide your contact address in order to get notifications, which can be passed on, and depends on the server to unsubscribe you from it. I wouldn't want to give my jid to all the RSS feed sites I'm subscribed to. And personally, I think privacy is a lot more worth than bandwidth. That's in fact a point I wanted to talk about with Peter Saint André. The difference with what you talk about and XMPP is that you subscribe to a Jabber server, not to the website itself. Yet the node owner can retrieve the subscription list or also he can simply be the one providing the Jabber server, that's true. But there is one point he cannot control: your own server provider that you are supposed to trust (and if you don't, change it). I think there should be some kind of "roster" for the pubsub subscriptions. Apparently there is no such thing in the XEP (but I may be wrong). So you could imagine a system (indeed there should be such a system) where your server keeps track of your own subscription (as well as it keeps track of your contact list). Hence if you receive notification from a node you have not subscribed (or you have unsubscribed since), I think your server should simply reject it and aknowledge the sending server (which should then unsubscribe you. And even if it is a spam server which will keep your jid, he won't be able to send you notifications) without disturbing you. What do you think of this? Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
GMail is an example of 2 different applications clearly separated into one user interface, and integrating on some fronts. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is if you start creating one giant client that does everything, where you soon end up with a user interface that is only mediocre at all tasks, and very confusing. I don't really agree. That's not like a program which does all and nothing, with too different tasks. As I said, for me they are related features and this can be done with a very simplistic and intuitive interface. Of course, after this you have better developpers, better designers, and so better programs than other. I just spoke of gmail because this has some reputation currently and this enables to do many things which are very close to what could be done with Jabber, with the advantage that it is XMPP, so a decentralized network where you would choose your provider, though sharing some common clients (light web clients or heavy local ones). An IM client wouldn't publish the capability of reading feeds, and as such would not get notifications. Ok for this, but currently do clients tell what are their features? I thought it was only the server which does it. And so the idea would be that when a client connects, it tells to the server "I can do this and this", hence a pubsub message would stay on the server as long as no client connects and tells it has this capacity? This is interesting. I don't think anyone is doubting that XMPP is more than an IM protocol. The question is whether you should build an XMPP client that implements *everything* you can do with XMPP. My opinion is that this leads to bad, uninspired applications. The best applications are focused on their task, and do it extremely well. I already gave my opinion above about this. I would just like to add thoughts in order to give weight to what Pedro Melo and Fabio Forno already said. XMPP has a specificity compared to what you suggest: it is a push system! This is something which gives the pubsub system for notification (for blog, website news, and so on) several very great advantages: - realtime - fabulous gain of bandwith: no need for a feed program anymore which connects to your website several times a day. Here it is replaced by a single connection by the website itself which will feed the node. And then it is up to the XMPP server to dispatch the notification to all subscribers. I remember some small blog which had to stop their RSS feeds because they had a small personnal server which had been completely loaded up by people's agregators trying to load news every 10 minutes. This could not happen with xmpp pubsub. This cannot be compared to current feed system because this work very differently. This is not something you check regularly. This is just a system where you are simply connected on the net without thinking of this and then you get notified about things you like and you wanted to be notified! The difference is that you don't need to take care anymore of this. You don't have to run specifically a program for following news: they come to you. For me this is another way of doing. For my own I use a little feeds, but I don't like it so much. I don't like to go and check my feed program. Moreover even for IM features, I am not really fond of the current systems of a IM dedicated program with this list window which stays always opened. I think Jabber client can be so much more, and this passes through the step "more integrated". After this, let's imagine many other advantages. You could imagine that at the opposite, you can publish from your Jabber client on your blog, by simply publishing to the node with a publisher login (and this would push on your blog bot which is a Jabber client). And pubsub is not only notification. With this, you can imagine an implementation of "Jabber mailing list" where every subscriber has also the right to publish. So you just publish on the node and everyone receives (this is not like a muc chatroom, because you don't have the presence). And for all this, I don't want to have 10 different programs, because for me it is the same thing: sending and receiving messages which matters (I subscribed to them). Your turn to speak. ;-) Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello, in my own opinion, I don't see notification so different. At the opposite, I think IM and notification are related and I far prefer to have all in a single program. Let's imagine a world where XMPP is very extended and used. I would travel a lot and then arrive in a Cyber-Café on a public computer. Then I would simply login to my Jabber account through a web-based interface (for instance, like gmail), or some installed Jabber client on this public machine. And with a single login, I would have access to my contacts, my adress book, my calendar, my bookmarks (as well web than Jabber bookmarks), my notification, etc. Then I travel with my own environment easily. Moreover if you had a separate program just for notification, how would the server knows which of your IM software or your feed software to notify? I think not remember you can precise a specific resource to notify. The server simply redirects the notification to one of the connected resources like the normal protocol of IM (so if your feed reader is not connected, you will get the notification on your IM client as soon as you connect, and then you would lose a notification without knowing it?!). Then the best mean to avoid this case is to have another account dedicated to the feeds, but then I think this is really a drawback to "have to" do so. And you remove one of the advantages of XMPP (and for my scenario above, then you lose all the advantages). For me, XMPP is far more than "just" an IM protocol. Or more than "separate things" to do in separate programs. I think this is a powerful protocol if you can do so many things you can imagine with just a single login. Jehan [ISO-8859-1] Remko Tron�on writes: Apparently Psi does not know what to do when he receives the message from the pubsub node. Yes, it does know what to do with pubsub messages: ignore them, unless they publish to a namespace that is known how to display it in the UI (tunes, mood, avatar). Adding support for new namespaces easy; knowing how to display this namespace, however, is not. Personally, I have always thought that reading RSS feeds/blog posts in an IM client is like forcing a round peg through a square hole. No matter how much I like my IM client, there are much better tools for doing this. But many people disagree. This opinion on IM clients aside, I think publishing wordpress blogs to pubsub nodes is cool. Maybe someone should create a dedicated XMPP client for reading feeds (either web-based or desktop), or add XMPP support to a good existing RSS reader. I don't really know of anything better than Google Reader, so it would be very nice to have something like that in a free version doing XMPP pubsub. A GSOC plugin could look into the different aspects of reading and publishing (atom) feeds in general would be worthwile i think. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello, for further details, I tried it out with the last svn versions of Psi and Gajim. The last psi version does not change anything. I can see the notification arriving to the client when I open the xml console, but nothing happens in the interface. No moving icon, no popping-up message... Apparently Psi does not know what to do when he receives the message from the pubsub node. In last svn version of gajim though, there is improvement. When I receive the pubsub message, there is a small pop-up, but it shows only the title. I will make further tests and investigations. Maybe something could be done because pubsub is a nice feature, but it is extremely flawed in all implementations (even gajim). Jehan Peter Saint-Andre a écrit : Jehan wrote: Hello, I just write to this mailing list after having spoken with the Gajim devs. They told me that the development of a plugin for wordpress has been proposed for the GSOC this year. And as I have finished today to develop one, they adviced me to tell this here. So I subscribed to this ml tell it. Sorry if some guy wanted to propose such a project in the GSOC. My source code should be available this week probably. I just want to improve some details first, and I will publish it on the plugin website of Wordpress under GPL (GPL 3 probably). For now, it just publishes a post to a xmpp node when you publish it on your blog (and I am also currently adding the publication to a node for comments). Cool. Let us know when it's available so we can test it out. But the only remaining (but BIG) issue is that... I just discovered that no client has a real support for pubsub nodes (at least, nor Gajim or Psi, the most advanced Jabber client I think)!!! With Psi, you can navigate through the nodes, but the "subscribe" command stays always greyed. And Gajim can subscribe only to root nodes... :-/ Moreover I could see in the xml console of both client that they well receive the notification (so my plugin is working), but nothing happens in the roster, nor any message appearing. That's why I was on the Gajim conference room, to ask for details of their implementation. :-/ Maybe I will try to add such support on Gajim or Psi?.. Because I am sad that my plugin is useless! :p What versions of Gajim and Psi are you using? So see you! And sorry again for removing a gsoc project (unless you want to have 2 same plugins, but the mine will be good, I assure you! :p). Heh. Well, there's no harm in two implementations, but I agree that it does make sense not to duplicate efforts unless needed. Peter
[jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello, I just write to this mailing list after having spoken with the Gajim devs. They told me that the development of a plugin for wordpress has been proposed for the GSOC this year. And as I have finished today to develop one, they adviced me to tell this here. So I subscribed to this ml tell it. Sorry if some guy wanted to propose such a project in the GSOC. My source code should be available this week probably. I just want to improve some details first, and I will publish it on the plugin website of Wordpress under GPL (GPL 3 probably). For now, it just publishes a post to a xmpp node when you publish it on your blog (and I am also currently adding the publication to a node for comments). But the only remaining (but BIG) issue is that... I just discovered that no client has a real support for pubsub nodes (at least, nor Gajim or Psi, the most advanced Jabber client I think)!!! With Psi, you can navigate through the nodes, but the "subscribe" command stays always greyed. And Gajim can subscribe only to root nodes... :-/ Moreover I could see in the xml console of both client that they well receive the notification (so my plugin is working), but nothing happens in the roster, nor any message appearing. That's why I was on the Gajim conference room, to ask for details of their implementation. :-/ Maybe I will try to add such support on Gajim or Psi?.. Because I am sad that my plugin is useless! :p So see you! And sorry again for removing a gsoc project (unless you want to have 2 same plugins, but the mine will be good, I assure you! :p). Jehan
