Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Freda B Birnbaum]

The other day, I wrote:

> Our friend Shulamith Berger has graciously forwarded the discussion on
> "Am Yisroel Chai", and my husband has asked me to post this response
> which should clarify some items.
>
> Thanks to all for the interesting material!  And now I'm enjoying the
> list as well.

I discovered a few typos in my original post, and in the process my
husband added a few comments as well, so I'm posting the corrected article
instead of just tagging on the comments.  (Any future comments will be
short notes!  Yes... musical notes... sorry!)

Freda Birnbaum

*

"Am Yisroel Chai" -- Shlomo Carlebach's Version and Earlier Versions

by Jacob Birnbaum
Founder and Director
Center for Russian Jewry with Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry
May 18, 2003


My good friend, Shulamith Berger, has drawn my attention to Gavriel
Bellino's inquiry on the Jewish-Music list, "Four Questions on Am Yisroel
Chai".

After initiating the grass-roots movement for Soviet Jewry with the
creation of the Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry in April 1964, I strove
to generate movement songs (now assembled in "Songs of Hope for Russian
Jews", originally "Songs of Protest for Russian Jews").

Our dear friend Cantor Sherwood Goffin became the first troubadour of
these songs, sang some of them in the Soviet Union in 1970 and recorded
some of them in the record "The New Slavery".

I was determined to get one from Shlomo Carlebach.  We knew each other and
our grandfathers had become acquainted in 1897 at the first Zionist
Congress in Basle, Switzerland.  His zaide, Rabbiner Arthur Cohn, was
Rabbi in Basle and my zaide Dr. Nathan Birnbaum was elected to be the
first Zionist Secretary-General.

Shlomo was constantly on the move and hard to pin down.  His mother
Rebbetzin Paula Carlebach was most helpful in forwarding my requests for a
song "Am Yisroel Chai".  The request began to resonate with him when he
flew to Soviet-dominated Czechoslovakia.  Later he told me that he had
washed my letter, typed on "Student "Struggle" stationery, down the
airplane toilet in some trepidation.

He first sang the song to a group of Prague youngsters.  I did not know
about this at the time but had continued to press Rebbetzin Carlebach that
he should have something ready for our great Jericho march of Sunday April
4, 1965.  Late on Friday afternoon April 2nd, my phone rang and Shlomo's
exhausted voice said, "Yankele, I've got it for you!"

Jericho Sunday dawned bright and sunny.  We encircled the Soviet UN
Mission on East 67th Street in New York, Jericho style, to the trumpeting
of seven shofars blown seven times and marched to the UN. Shlomo was
inspired and for the first time publicly sang what was to become a
contemporary Jewish liberation anthem.  Even Irving Spiegel, the usually
kvetchy New York Times correspondent, basked in the pervasive joyful
spirit of the moment.

Shlomo had added another phrase "Od Ovinu Chai" with which he climaxed the
song on a high note of exaltation.  He took this from the Biblical Yosef's
exclamation about his father Yaakov.  I would say that this was the
culmination of Shlomo's first musical period, which I would call his
"Neshomo" period, marking the revival of popular Jewish religious music
after the destruction of the great East European reservoir of popular
Jewish music during the Holocaust.  I well remember the barrenness of the
Jewish music scene in the post World War II years.  It was Shlomo who
revived the "Ovinu" consciousness in the latter 1950s.

When I brought Shlomo into the Soviet Jewry liberation movement, he
entered his second musical phase -- a preoccupation with the physical
rescue of the Jewish people and Israel, the "Guf" phase, one might say.
After the capture of the Old City of Jerusalem in 1967, he went to the
Wall and sang the new song of liberation but now in reverse order.  Now he
began with a high triumphant "Od Ovinu Chai" with "Am Yisroel" in second
place.

This also pointed to his third phase, which I'd call his "Mikdosh" phase.
He had not been well and in 1994, my wife and I went to daven Slichos with
him at his shul.  Avoiding his more usual sentimental discursive style, he
spoke brilliantly and deeply about contemporary spiritual challenges and
then the service got under way.

In his later years, young Hasidim had become enchanted with him.  Many
such were present and the scene became religiously electric, the davenen
becoming ever more intense with his microphone-aided voice soaring
ecstatically over it all.  I was startled and moved and faces all around
me were lit up in fervor.  As we left, I said to my wife, "This was a
Mikdosh experience and Shlomo's essence."

Shlomo had expanded beyond the striving for the redemption of the
individual soul to the physical redemption of Am Yisroel and finally
penetrated to the holy core of Jerusalem's Mikdosh.

Shortly thereafter, Shlomo passed on.

In sum, with his early neoclassic melodies, he responded to the yearnings
of

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Freda B Birnbaum]

Our friend Shulamith Berger has graciously forwarded the discussion on "Am
Yisroel Chai", and my husband has asked me to post this response which
should clarify some items.

Thanks to all for the interesting material!  And now I'm enjoying the list
as well.

Freda Birnbaum, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

+

"Am Yisroel Chai" -- Shlomo Carlebach's Version and Earlier Versions

by Jacob Birnbaum
Founder and Director
Center for Russian Jewry with Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry
May 13, 2003


My good friend, Shulamith Berger, has drawn my attention to Gavriel
Bellino's inquiry on the Jewish-Music list, "Four Questions on Am
Yisroel Chai".

After initiating the grass-roots movement for Soviet Jewry with the
creation of the Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry in April 1964, I
strove to generate movement songs (now assembled in "Songs of Hope for
Russian Jews", originally "Songs of Protest for Russian Jews").

Our dear friend Cantor Sherwood Goffin became the first troubadour of
these songs, sang some of them in the Soviet Union in 1970 and recorded
some of them in the record "The New Slavery".

I was determined to get one from Shlomo Carlebach.  We knew each other
and our grandfathers had become acquainted in 1897 at the first Zionist
Congress in Basle, Switzerland.  His zaide, Rabbiner Arthur Cohn, was
Rabbi in Basle and my zaide Dr. Nathan Birnbaum was elected to be the
first Zionist Secretary-General.

Shlomo was constantly on the move and hard to pin down.  His mother
Rebbetzin Paula Carlebach was most helpful in forwarding my requests
for a song "Am Yisroel Chai".  The request began to resonate with him
when he flew to Soviet-dominated Czechoslovakia.  Later he told me that
he had washed my letter, typed on "Student "Struggle" stationery, down
the airplane toilet in some trepidation.

He first sang the song to a group of Prague youngsters.  I did not know
about this at the time but had continued to press Rebbetzin Carlebach
that he should have something ready for our great Jericho march of
Sunday April 4, 1965.  Late on Friday afternoon April 2nd, my phone
rang and Shlomo's exhausted voice said, "Yankele, I've got it for you!"

Jericho Sunday dawned bright and sunny.  We encircled the Soviet UN
Mission on East 67th Street in New York, Jericho style, to the
trumpeting of seven shofars blown seven times and marched to the UN.
Shlomo was inspired and for the first time publicly sang what was to
become a contemporary Jewish liberation anthem.  Even Irving Spiegel,
the usually kvetchy New York Times correspondent, basked in the
pervasive joyful spirit of the moment.

Shlomo had added another phrase "Od Ovinu Chai" with which he climaxed
the song on a high note of exaltation.  He took this from the Biblical
Yosef's exclamation about his father Yaakov.  I would say that this was
the culmination of Shlomo's first musical period, which I would call
his "Neshomo" period, marking the revival of popular Jewish religious
music after the destruction of the great East European reservoir of
popular Jewish music during the Holocaust.  I well remember the
barrenness of the Jewish music scene in the post World War II years.
It was Shlomo who revived the Ovinu consciousness in the latter 1950s.

When I brought Shlomo into the Soviet Jewry liberation movement, he
entered his second musical phase -- a preoccupation with the physical
rescue of the Jewish people and Israel, the "Guf" phase, one might say.
After the capture of the Old City of Jerusalem in 1967, he went to the
Wall and sang the new song of liberation but now in reverse order.
Now he began with a high triumphant "Od Ovinu Chai" with "Am Yisroel"
in second place.

This also pointed to his third phase, which I'd call his "Mikdosh"
phase.  He had not been well and in 1994, my wife and I went to daven
Slichos with him at his shul.  Avoiding his more usual sentimental
discursive style, he spoke brilliantly and deeply about contemporary
spiritual challenges and then the service got under way.

In his later years, young Hasidim had become enchanted with him.  Many
such were present and the scene became religiously electric, the
davenen becoming ever more intense with his microphone-aided voice
soaring ecstatically over it all.  I was startled and moved and faces
all around me were lit up in fervor.  As we left, I said to my wife,
"This was a Mikdosh experience and Shlomo's essence."

Shlomo had expanded beyond the striving for the redemption of the
individual soul to the physical redemption of Am Yisroel and finally
penetrated to the holy core of Jerusalem's Mikdosh.

Shortly thereafter, Shlomo passed on.

In sum, with his early neoclassic melodies, he responded to the
yearnings of younger post-Holocaust generations to reach into their
Jewish roots, to hold on and rebuild their Jewish identity.  He was
responding to something even larger than a physical Holocaust, to the
pervasive thinning and disintegration of Jewish identity in recent
centuries.

That is why he later responded t

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[awi blumenfeld]

Shavua Tov, I spoke in the late 80"ies to 
R'Carlebach personally and het told me he wrote the song inspired by the 
question of "Od Yosef chai" and "Od Avinu Chai" of the first book of the 
Pentateuch (Sefer Breshit) 
Awi blumenfeld
 
Tel aviv

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  cohenedmunds 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 5:58 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel 
  Chai
  
  I have music for three different versions: 
  one attributed to Carlebach in V. Pasternak's Israel In Song 
  (Tara Publ.), the second is credited to "The Brothers 
  Zimm" (P. Zimel and S. Zimel) - same book, and the third is in Sol Zim's 
  The Joy of The Jewish Wedding (Sol's arrangement but he credits 
  S.Rockoff) - also Tara Publ. There's also a nice round in my copy of The 
  Jewish Center Songster - no composer, and its not associated with any 
  particular holiday or tradition - no source/reference for the lyrics. I'm 
  curious too. 
  Beth A. Cohen 
   
  Beth A. Cohen
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: World music from a Jewish slant 
    
    Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:16 
PM
Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am 
Yisroel Chai
I thought there was a Carlebach conneciton to the 
song... 

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Sam Weiss]

From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Do you mean, Sam, that the people only exists, 
> Toraitically, in relationship to G*d?

Exactly.


-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+
Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network  http://shamash.org  
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Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Eliezer Kaplan]

>Are you saying that the 
same tune appears in Scott’s work? 
 
Yes. The 'Od avinu 
chai' part.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gavriel 
  Bellino 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  
  Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:38 
PM
  Subject: RE: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel 
  Chai
  
  
  Are you saying that 
  the same tune appears in Scott’s work? 
  As I wrote before: 
  There were tunes for these words as early as 1920. Perhaps earlier. 
  
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Eliezer KaplanSent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:31 
  PMTo: World music from a 
  Jewish slantSubject: Re: 
  Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai
   
  
  Well since Raymond Scott's 'Dinner 
  Music for a Pack of Hungry Cannibals' dates from 1937 and has the same theme 
  let's just assume that Reb Shlomo picked it up 
  subconsciously.
  

- Original Message - 


From: Richard 
Green 

To: World 
music from a Jewish slant 

Sent: 
Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:08 PM

    Subject: Re: 
    Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

 


Shlomo Carlebach 
wrote the popular melody in the 60's when the leaders of the Soviet Jewry 
Movement (Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry) came to him and asked him to 
compose an anthem.  This can be verified by Avi Weisz of the Hebrew 
Institute of Rivendale who spoke at Shlomo's levaya and mentiioned the 
nigun.  It appears on the I Heard the Wall Singing recording of the 
1960's.  And I have that recording in my 
collection.
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>To: World music from a Jewish slant 
    <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am 
Yisroel Chai 
>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:16:01 EDT 

> 
>I thought there was a Carlebach 
conneciton to the song... 




STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months 
FREE* -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+ 
Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew 
College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, 
http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ * * FREE JEWISH LEARNING * * Shamash 
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authoritative and interactive learning resource in all areas of Judaism. 
Free membership via http://www.myjewishlearning.com/shamash 
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -= 

RE: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Gavriel Bellino]

Are you saying that the same tune appears
in Scott’s work? 

As I wrote before: There were tunes for
these words as early as 1920. Perhaps earlier. 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eliezer Kaplan
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:31
PM
To: World music from a Jewish
slant
Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am
Yisroel Chai

 



Well since Raymond Scott's 'Dinner
Music for a Pack of Hungry Cannibals' dates from 1937 and has the same theme
let's just assume that Reb Shlomo picked it up subconsciously.







- Original Message - 





From: Richard
Green 





To: World
music from a Jewish slant 





Sent: Thursday, May
01, 2003 5:08 PM





Subject: Re: Four
Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai





 







Shlomo Carlebach wrote
the popular melody in the 60's when the leaders of the Soviet Jewry Movement
(Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry) came to him and asked him to compose an
anthem.  This can be verified by Avi Weisz of the Hebrew Institute of
Rivendale who spoke at Shlomo's levaya and mentiioned the nigun.  It
appears on the I Heard the Wall Singing recording of the 1960's.  And I
have that recording in my collection.



>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>To: World music from a Jewish slant 

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai 

>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:16:01 EDT 

> 

>I thought there was a Carlebach conneciton to the
song... 












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by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College,
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you to join MyJewishLearning.com, a comprehensive, objective, authoritative and
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Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Eliezer Kaplan]

Well since Raymond Scott's 'Dinner Music for a Pack 
of Hungry Cannibals' dates from 1937 and has the same theme let's just assume 
that Reb Shlomo picked it up subconsciously.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Richard 
  Green 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  
  Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:08 
PM
  Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel 
  Chai
  
  
  
  Shlomo Carlebach wrote the popular melody in the 60's when the leaders of 
  the Soviet Jewry Movement (Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry) came to him and 
  asked him to compose an anthem.  This can be verified by Avi Weisz of the 
  Hebrew Institute of Rivendale who spoke at Shlomo's levaya and mentiioned the 
  nigun.  It appears on the I Heard the Wall Singing recording of the 
  1960's.  And I have that recording in my collection.
  
  >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  >To: World music from a Jewish slant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai 
  >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:16:01 EDT 
  > 
  >I thought there was a Carlebach conneciton to the song... 
  
  
  STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 
  and get 2 months FREE* -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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  http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses 
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  JEWISH LEARNING * * Shamash invites you to join MyJewishLearning.com, a 
  comprehensive, objective, authoritative and interactive learning resource in 
  all areas of Judaism. Free membership via 
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Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[I. Oppenheim]

On Thu, 1 May 2003, Richard Green wrote:

> If memory serves me correctly, "Am Yisroel Chai" is
> chanted during Kiddush Levanah for the New Moom or as
> part of Havdalah.

No, this is not the case.

However, there are two other popular songs that derive
from the "Kiddush Levanah"  ceremony: "David melekh
yisra'eil, chay vekayam." and "Simman tov umazzal tov
yehei lanu ulkhol yisra'eil"


 Groeten,
 Irwin Oppenheim
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ~~~*

 Chazzanut Online:
 http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/

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RE: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Gavriel Bellino]

It’s not in Kiddush Levanah. That’s
Dovid Melech Chai v’kayam.

The Jury is out on the actual timing. He
might have composed the song in Russia a year before that rally.

I am in the process of contacting one of
the rally organizers. 

 

All best, GZB

 

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Richard Green]

If memory serves me correctly, "Am Yisroel Chai" is chanted during Kiddush Levanah for the New Moom or as part of Havdalah.

>From: Sam Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai 
>Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:26:58 -0400 
> 
>At 10:12 AM 4/28/03, Gavriel Bellino wrote: 
>>1. What is the source of the words? (I researched the phrase in the 
>>Biblical and Rabbinic literature and drew a blank. Is it a loose 
>>rephrasing of a biblical theme? If so which one? I have a few 
>>ideas, but 
>>nothing too elucidating. ) Is it a poetic creation for the sake of 
>>a 
>>song, like Hava Nagilah? 
> 
>The phrase Am Yisrael ("the Jewish people") is not liturgical and, 
>as you indicate, not scriptural; it probably arose with Zionism, and 
>along with it, the slogan "Am Yisrael Chai". But Am Yisrael is very 
>close to some biblical phrases, and the differences are noteworthy. 
>The common biblical equivalent to Am Yisrael is simply Yisrael. We 
>also find B'ney Yisrael ("the progeny of Israel") or Beyt Yisrael 
>("the house of Israel"), phrases that retain the tribal associations 
>with an ancestor called Yisrael (=Jacob) -- along the lines of Beyt 
>Aharon, Beyt Ya'akov, Beyt [ha-]Levi -- rather than an independent 
>"people." 
> 
>The biblical phrases that do contain "Am-" in connection with 
>"Yisrael" seem to further negate the notion of an "independent 
>people" inasmuch as they are always combined with a pronoun (usually 
>referring to God). Thus we find Amcha Yisrael, Ami Yisrael and Amo 
>Yisrael, but no Am Yisrael. 
> 
>DEUTERONOMY 21.9 
>Absolve, O Lord, Your people Israel whom You redeemed, and do not 
>let guilt for the blood of the innocent remain among Your people 
>Israel. 
> 
>KINGS 6.13 
>I will abide among the children of Israel, and I will never forsake 
>My people Israel. 
> 
>CHRONICLES 6.6 
>But then I chose Jerusalem for My name to abide there, and I chose 
>David to rule My people Israel. 
> 
>DANIEL 9.20 
>While I was speaking, praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of 
>my people Israel... 
> 
>JEREMIAH 30.3 
>For days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will restore the 
>fortunes of My people Israel and Judah, said the Lord... 
> 
>PSALMS 135.12 
>...and gave their lands as a heritage, as a heritage to His people 
>Israel. 
> 
>JOEL 4.2 
>I will gather all the nations 
>And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. 
>There I will contend with them 
>Over My very own people, Israel, 
>Which they scattered among the nations. 
> 
> 
>_ 
>Cantor Sam Weiss === Jewish Community Center of Paramus, NJ 
> 
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> 
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>Shamash invites you to join MyJewishLearning.com, a comprehensive, 
>objective, authoritative and interactive learning resource in all 
>areas 
>of Judaism. Free membership via 
>http://www.myjewishlearning.com/shamash 
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> 
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Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Richard Green]

Shlomo Carlebach wrote the popular melody in the 60's when the leaders of the Soviet Jewry Movement (Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry) came to him and asked him to compose an anthem.  This can be verified by Avi Weisz of the Hebrew Institute of Rivendale who spoke at Shlomo's levaya and mentiioned the nigun.  It appears on the I Heard the Wall Singing recording of the 1960's.  And I have that recording in my collection.

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai 
>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:16:01 EDT 
> 
>I thought there was a Carlebach conneciton to the song... 
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*

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Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[music]

The biblical phrases that do contain "Am-" in connection with
   "Yisrael"  seem to further negate the notion of an "independent
   people" inasmuch as  they are always combined with a pronoun (usually
   referring to God).  Thus  we find Amcha Yisrael, Ami Yisrael and Amo
   Yisrael, but no Am Yisrael.

I'm curious what Cantor Sam, in this helpful posting, means by the Biblical
phrases seeming to negate the notion of an "independent people"--and I'm
not clear what he means _by_ that phrase in quotes, either.

Do you mean, Sam, that the people only exists, Toraitically, in
relationship to G*d?

--Robert Cohen




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Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Sam Weiss]

At 10:12 AM 4/28/03, Gavriel Bellino wrote:
1. What is the source of the words? (I researched the phrase in the
Biblical and Rabbinic literature and drew a blank. Is it a loose
rephrasing of a biblical theme? If so which one? I have a few ideas, but
nothing too elucidating. ) Is it a poetic creation for the sake of a
song, like Hava Nagilah?
The phrase Am Yisrael ("the Jewish people") is not liturgical and, as you 
indicate, not scriptural; it probably arose with Zionism, and along with 
it, the slogan "Am Yisrael Chai".  But Am Yisrael is very close to some 
biblical phrases, and the differences are noteworthy.  The common biblical 
equivalent to Am Yisrael is simply Yisrael. We also find B'ney Yisrael 
("the progeny of Israel") or Beyt Yisrael ("the house of Israel"), phrases 
that retain the tribal associations with an ancestor called Yisrael 
(=Jacob) -- along the lines of Beyt Aharon, Beyt Ya'akov, Beyt [ha-]Levi -- 
rather than an independent "people."

The biblical phrases that do contain "Am-" in connection with "Yisrael" 
seem to further negate the notion of an "independent people" inasmuch as 
they are always combined with a pronoun (usually referring to God).  Thus 
we find Amcha Yisrael, Ami Yisrael and Amo Yisrael, but no Am Yisrael.

DEUTERONOMY 21.9
Absolve, O Lord, Your people Israel whom You redeemed, and do not let guilt 
for the blood of the innocent remain among Your people Israel.

KINGS 6.13
I will abide among the children of Israel, and I will never forsake My 
people Israel.

CHRONICLES 6.6
But then I chose Jerusalem for My name to abide there, and I chose David to 
rule My people Israel.

DANIEL 9.20
While I was speaking, praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my 
people Israel...

JEREMIAH 30.3
For days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will restore the fortunes of 
My people Israel and Judah, said the Lord...

PSALMS 135.12
...and gave their lands as a heritage, as a heritage to His people Israel.
JOEL 4.2
I will gather all the nations
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will contend with them
Over My very own people, Israel,
Which they scattered among the nations.
_
Cantor Sam Weiss === Jewish Community Center of Paramus, NJ 

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RE: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Gavriel Bellino]

Is that the one by Seymour Rockoff? Shlomo’s
is slightly older.

 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dick Rosenberg
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:43
PM
To: World music from a Jewish
slant
Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am
Yisroel Chai

 



My band (and probably the band of
half the members on this list) plays what I consider the "other"
version of Am Yisrael Chai (the one that sounds rather like Tsena, Tsena). I
learned that long before I learned Shlomo Carlebach's and that has the Od Avinu
Chai.





 





Dick Rosenberg







- Original Message - 





From: Gavriel Bellino






To: World
music from a Jewish slant 





Sent: Tuesday,
April 29, 2003 9:23 PM





Subject: RE: Four
Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai





 



No.
It’s way older than that. Probably by a hundred years. He was
commissioned to write a song with those words, but the words had been a part of
our musical consciousness long before it. I believe that he added the words Od
Avinu Chai on his own, paraphrasing Joseph’s question to his brothers and
their report back to Jacob. All best, GZB

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:19
PM
To: World music from a Jewish
slant
Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am
Yisroel Chai

 

Someone with more knowledge may wish
to correct me

but I am pretty sure that Shlomo wrote this  for the refuseniks in the
Soviet Union.

Might have even debuted the tune when he was there.

mike eisenstadt
tampa

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Dick Rosenberg]

My band (and probably the band of half the members 
on this list) plays what I consider the "other" version of Am Yisrael Chai (the 
one that sounds rather like Tsena, Tsena). I learned that long before I learned 
Shlomo Carlebach's and that has the Od Avinu Chai.
 
Dick Rosenberg

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gavriel 
  Bellino 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:23 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel 
  Chai
  
  
  No. It’s way older 
  than that. Probably by a hundred years. He was commissioned to write a song 
  with those words, but the words had been a part of our musical consciousness 
  long before it. I believe that he added the words Od Avinu Chai on his own, 
  paraphrasing Joseph’s question to his brothers and their report back to Jacob. 
  All best, GZB
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:19 
  PMTo: World music from a 
  Jewish slantSubject: Re: 
  Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai
   
  Someone with more knowledge may 
  wish to correct mebut I am pretty sure that Shlomo wrote 
  this  for the refuseniks in the Soviet Union.Might have even 
  debuted the tune when he was there.mike 
  eisenstadttampa

RE: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Gavriel Bellino]

No. It’s way older
than that. Probably by a hundred years. He was commissioned to write a song with
those words, but the words had been a part of our musical consciousness long
before it. I believe that he added the words Od Avinu Chai on his own,
paraphrasing Joseph’s question to his brothers and their report back to
Jacob. All best, GZB

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:19
PM
To: World music from a Jewish
slant
Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am
Yisroel Chai

 

Someone with more knowledge may wish
to correct me

but I am pretty sure that Shlomo wrote this  for the refuseniks in the
Soviet Union.

Might have even debuted the tune when he was there.

mike eisenstadt
tampa

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[KLEZMER313]

Someone with more knowledge may wish to correct me

but I am pretty sure that Shlomo wrote this  for the refuseniks in the Soviet Union.

Might have even debuted the tune when he was there.

mike eisenstadt
tampa

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[cohenedmunds]

I have music for three different versions: 
one attributed to Carlebach in V. Pasternak's Israel In Song (Tara 
Publ.), the second is credited to "The Brothers Zimm" 
(P. Zimel and S. Zimel) - same book, and the third is in Sol Zim's The Joy of 
The Jewish Wedding (Sol's arrangement but he credits S.Rockoff) - also Tara 
Publ. There's also a nice round in my copy of The Jewish Center Songster 
- no composer, and its not associated with any particular holiday or tradition - 
no source/reference for the lyrics. I'm curious too. 
Beth A. Cohen 
 
Beth A. Cohen

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  
  Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:16 
PM
  Subject: Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel 
  Chai
  I thought there was a Carlebach conneciton to the 
  song... 

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Kfarcenter]

I thought there was a Carlebach conneciton to the song...

Re: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Eliezer Kaplan]

'Am Yisroel Chai' is Raymond Scott's 'Dinner Music for a Pack of Hungry
Cannibals'- but I have NO idea which came first.
ek


- Original Message - 
From: "Gavriel Bellino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "World music from a Jewish slant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:12 AM
Subject: Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai


> Does anyone know of the history of the song "Am Yisroel Chai" ?
>
> 1. What is the source of the words? (I researched the phrase in the
> Biblical and Rabbinic literature and drew a blank. Is it a loose
> rephrasing of a biblical theme? If so which one? I have a few ideas, but
> nothing too elucidating. ) Is it a poetic creation for the sake of a
> song, like Hava Nagilah?
>
> 2. When did it become part of our national consciousness?  When was it
> first sung? As far as I know it appeared in a couple of folk melodies
> from of the 20's and 30's, with popularity extending thru the 70's.
>
> 3. How was it first sung? I've heard that the lyrics were actually, " Am
> Yisroel Chai, Ad B'li Dai" or "Am Yisroel Chai, Amcha Yisroel Chai".
>
> 4. Shlomo Carlebach used the phrase coupled with the words "Od Avinu
> Chai." Was this his doing? Was this another popular phrase? If so, was
> he the one to make the shidduch? Or, did he actually pen the phrase?
>
> All best, GZB
>
>
>
>


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Four Quesions on Am Yisroel Chai

[Gavriel Bellino]

Does anyone know of the history of the song "Am Yisroel Chai" ?

1. What is the source of the words? (I researched the phrase in the
Biblical and Rabbinic literature and drew a blank. Is it a loose
rephrasing of a biblical theme? If so which one? I have a few ideas, but
nothing too elucidating. ) Is it a poetic creation for the sake of a
song, like Hava Nagilah?

2. When did it become part of our national consciousness?  When was it
first sung? As far as I know it appeared in a couple of folk melodies
from of the 20's and 30's, with popularity extending thru the 70's.

3. How was it first sung? I've heard that the lyrics were actually, " Am
Yisroel Chai, Ad B'li Dai" or "Am Yisroel Chai, Amcha Yisroel Chai". 

4. Shlomo Carlebach used the phrase coupled with the words "Od Avinu
Chai." Was this his doing? Was this another popular phrase? If so, was
he the one to make the shidduch? Or, did he actually pen the phrase? 

All best, GZB


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Shamash invites you to join MyJewishLearning.com, a comprehensive,
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