Re: [Kicad-developers] RFC: use of DXF files

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.


I don't know how others see DXF (DWG too?) useful, but I find the file
format implementation situation somewhat chaotic:


- Bert Timmerman is actively developing libdxf (https://github.com/bert/libdxf).

- A try to isolate dxf code from LibArea project:
https://github.com/thatcadguy/dxf-cpp https://github.com/Heeks/libarea

- libdxfrw, born from the LibreDWG controversy to license it to GPLv3
instead something like LGPL:
https://github.com/LibreCAD/LibreCAD/tree/master/libraries/libdxfrw

- libdxf, I have no idea but it's in the LibreCAD repo:
https://github.com/LibreCAD/LibreCAD/tree/master/libraries/dxflib

- There's LibDWG fork using GPLv3 too, but not so actively developed.

- Libopencad (https://github.com/sandyre/libopencad), but it uses
muparser with the GPL-incompatible IBM's Common Public License.


Why so much projects for only DXF and DWG formats?

Kind regards.

2016-09-01 10:49 GMT+02:00 Cirilo Bernardo :
> Hi Folks,
>
>  DXF Import seems to be popular enough that we have the
> occasional questions and complaints about how to use it
> for a specific task. The items I can think of include:
>
> 1. being able to process Layers and associate a named
> DXF Layer with a specific KiCad Layer.
>
> 2. "I can't import Feature X". This one comes up now and then;
> the most popular is "why doesn't kicad support DXF filled
> regions?" More recently someone was asking about importing
> a DXF Point (what that would represent in KiCad is anyone's guess).
>
> In the past I put a little work into a few minor fixes and adding
> PolyLine support for outlines, but I haven't done anything more
> since there seems to be no long-term plan for DXF. Does anyone
> think some effort should go into a grand plan for how DXF can
> interact with KiCad, especially on the Import side? If it is a
> useful enough tool and we can come up with a sensible scheme
> which general users would find useful I can put in a little time to
> code it.
>
> - Cirilo
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Bitmap fonts

[timofonic timofonic]

You're all more skilled, I just found the following:

https://github.com/behdad/glyphy (it seems an interesting
implementation for OpenGL ES. It seems OpenGL 3.x+ allows other
advantages)

Use of low polygon fonts:
https://github.com/stolk/dutch-blunt

2016-04-15 16:02 GMT+02:00 Mário Luzeiro :
>> Question: Is the text rendered every draw frame?
>
> No :/ I found / experiment it on the source code.
>
> 
> From: Mário Luzeiro
> Sent: 15 April 2016 13:01
> To: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net; maciej.sumin...@cern.ch
> Subject: RE: [Kicad-developers] Bitmap fonts
>
> Here is the result of my test (attached)
>
> Question: Is the text rendered every draw frame?
>
> If yes:
> My suggestion was to clamp to a max size (in order to render the text 1:1 on 
> relation to the font pixel size in the texture) and to a minimum (or not 
> display it.. )
> See the too_big.png issue.
> I think as this is informative text it can be render dynamically and doesn't 
> not matter the exactly position / scale.
>
> mipmap_spacing_issue.png:
> I notice for some zoom levels that there are "blur margin" effects issues.
> I believe it may be fixed if you increase the spacing of the chars in the 
> texture. (So you may need to decrease the font size to keep the same texture 
> size)
>
> Mario
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Are some of the hotkey names hardcoded?

[timofonic timofonic]

Just a question...

Why hotkeys must change between language? Can't that be an issue when
teaching and learning KiCad?

What about if you used the app in a language and then in another? What
about using a tutorial in a different language?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:16 PM,   wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Some of the hotkey names aren't in the .po files, so they remain in original
> English when some of the others languages are selected (in some other
> languages they are fully translated).
> What am I missing?
>
> Regards,
> Iñigo.
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] File format documentation

[timofonic timofonic]

Just my very small contribution:

- It would be very nice if assiting other projects to support KiCad
formats. What about a common library that could be adapted to other
EDA software?

It would be nice to use LGPL, so this way even interested proprietary
software would use it to have KiCad interoperability.

Ideally, it would be even nicer to make something like the Document
Liberation Project. I understand this is a really very very difficult
task to make it possible, as it requires massive testing and RE,
despite there are some documentation and converters out there. I'm
also sure there's lots of testing to check it and other file formats
not yet known.

Kind regards.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Martin d'Allens
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> There is no detailed file format documentation in the kicad-doc repository.
> Should we consolidate the following sources into an asciidoc document? They
> would benefit from the docs toolchain and be installed for offline use.
> -
> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stambaughw/kicad/doc-read-only/files/head:/doc/help/file_formats/
> - http://kicad-pcb.org/help/file-formats/
> - http://www.compuphase.com/electronics/LibraryFileFormats.pdf (copyright?)
>
> ( User question: https://forum.kicad.info/t/contribution-to-kicad/2289/2 )
>
> Martin
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Feature requests: Official "KiCad Team" section on website, migrate and update FAQ

[timofonic timofonic]

Yes, you are right.

I'll try to prepare some drafts and put it in GitHub. Thanks for fixing my
way of thinking, really.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Nick Østergaard <oe.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2016-01-10 10:38 GMT+01:00 timofonic timofonic <timofo...@gmail.com>:
> > Hello.
> >
> > The website and the project are evolving a lot, congratulations!
> >
> > I see a small issue: There aren't an official "About us" or "About the
> team"
> > with a list of official KiCad Team members (maybe even subteams too?). I
> > believe having this information in an easy to access and structured form
> > could add credibility and trust to the project.
> >
> > About the FAQ:
> >
> > I see there's a FAQ in Launchpad (I hope everyday the project switches to
> > GitHub), but it's extremely outdated.
> >
> > https://answers.launchpad.net/kicad
> >
> > - Suggestion #1: Use Askbot https://github.com/ASKBOT/askbot-devel
>
> Why? We already have Chris Gammels forum.
>
> > - Suggestion #2: Recollect all questions and update them, using AsciiDoc
>
> YOU shall start picking some examples in some note, you can't expect
> anyone else than you to do this for YOU. There is still some good info
> in the old FAQ page form confluence. You could start rewriting that
> one. And then maybe we can include that on the website as a FAQ page.
>
> > - Suggestion #3: A mixed approach, using Askbot for questions and an
> > official FAQ.
>
> Of course it is mixed. I makes no sense to just set up a ASKBOT and
> expect that to become a FAQ. It is essentially just another forum
> software.
>
> >
> >
> > Kind regards.
> >
> > ___
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[Kicad-developers] Feature requests: Official "KiCad Team" section on website, migrate and update FAQ

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

The website and the project are evolving a lot, congratulations!

I see a small issue: There aren't an official "About us" or "About the
team" with a list of official KiCad Team members (maybe even subteams
too?). I believe having this information in an easy to access and
structured form could add credibility and trust to the project.

About the FAQ:

I see there's a FAQ in Launchpad (I hope everyday the project switches to
GitHub), but it's extremely outdated.

https://answers.launchpad.net/kicad

- Suggestion #1: Use Askbot https://github.com/ASKBOT/askbot-devel
- Suggestion #2: Recollect all questions and update them, using AsciiDoc
- Suggestion #3: A mixed approach, using Askbot for questions and an
official FAQ.


Kind regards.
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[Kicad-developers] Adding KiCad 4.0.0 to Chocolatey?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

Because of scholar reasons, I need to use Windows too. I found Chocolatey,
a nice way to make Windows a bit less painful.

I see there's KiCad, but it's the 2013 version.

Any way to update it?

Kind regards.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Stable release update.

[timofonic timofonic]

Wow!

Is KiCad 4.0 final release going soon? Damn, I'm very busy with studies but
I would love there's a complete Spanish translation on it!

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015, Marco Ciampa  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 08:35:41AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> > Would you please make "KiCad Stable Release Policy" and
> > link to
> >
> http://ci.kicad-pcb.org/job/kicad-doxygen/ws/Documentation/doxygen/html/md_Documentation_development_stable-release-policy.html
> > when you get a chance?
>
> Done.
>
> --
>
>
> Marco Ciampa
>
> I know a joke about UDP, but you might not get it.
>
> ++
> | GNU/Linux User  #78271 |
> | FSFE fellow   #364 |
> ++
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] FOSDEM 2016

[timofonic timofonic]

Congratulations! All the involved people in the project deserve it. You all
are doing an amazing work, revitalizing the project in an unprecedented way.

I have high hopes too. I want to help a bit more progressively, but I'm
quite busy these days :(

I would love to see the videos with English subtitles. I promise to
translate them to Spanish, it's easier than .po files :D

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Javier Serrano <
javier.serrano.par...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Wayne Stambaugh 
> wrote:
> > I just submitted my request to present at the EDA dev room for FOSDEM
> > 2016.  After last years unexpected EDA dev room success, I am hoping to
> > see more of you at this years EDA dev room.  I believe we are getting a
> > larger room after last years room was standing room only for most of the
> > presentations.  I'm looking forward to seeing you there.
>
> The competition for rooms in FOSDEM is fierce :) We have been promoted
> from room AW1.124 last year (59 seats) to room AW1.121 this year (82
> seats). I think we will have a full room again this year, but at least
> we have a room! Several devroom proposals had to be rejected due to
> lack of space. I believe the FOSDEM organizers are working on live
> broadcast and monitors so people who cannot make it into the rooms can
> still see the talks. Looking forward to seeing many of you there!
>
> Javier
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] This is my first try at collaboring at translating KiCad to Spanish

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

No  problem. I need to learn how to do it and check what I did it. I'll be
available in 30 minutes approximately.

If Spanish translators do early commits or have their own fork with them, I
would like to know if we can work in the same fork.

 I'm far for being as efficient abd skilled at this as both of you, but
want to participate actively and learn while doing it to improve. I want to
be an active contributor to KiCad as much as I can, I hope to be able to
translate and  put my small contribution to help to make KiCad more used
too.

Kind regards.

On Saturday, November 7, 2015, Nick Østergaard <oe.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi timfonic
>
> Please make pull requests on the kicad-i18n repo.
> Den 07/11/2015 03.08 skrev "timofonic timofonic" <timofo...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','timofo...@gmail.com');>>:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>> Here's my file. I'm sure it's far from perfect, but I tried it. It served
>> me as exercise, I'm going to continue tomorrow and hope to be faster.
>>
>> I send it in case it may be useful and be checked by the other Spanish
>> translators.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
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[Kicad-developers] About collaboration, simulation, documentation, organisation, usability and documentation (Was: Re: Bug #1511552 - Fixes to Incorrect export of Spice net-list from EESchema)

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello

I'm just a lurker and still not started to contribute, but I have some
ideas:

- Indian Institute of Technology Bombay: I see technological and
educational institutions as potential contributors at this stage of
development. Indian Institute of Technology Bombay developed the Oscad
package and showed a very good attitude towards collaboration, I think they
must go to FOSSDEM and talk very seriously about a long term collaboration
plan.
- Improving usability: I think UX should be taken under a very serious
objective analysis by an independent group to make KiCad more popular,
OpenUsability.org seems a good candidate. Old schoolers and some developers
might resist to change, but KiCad's UX is one of the things that still make
people uncomfortable to use it.
- QUCS: It seems a great project with innovation in their core ideas. I
think there should be some collaboration. It seems there are issues about
SPICE models being copyrighted so they have to use script downloaders, this
would make a future KiCad library with all components available in
SPICE/Verilog-A a very hard challenge until solved.
- Organization: Are there clear roles in KiCad? Wayne is the project
manager and there are translators, that's all I know. Are there main or
specific roles in the team? What about a fast voting process to take
decisions? Are there a formal meritocratic core team?
- Wiki: What about using a wiki for documentation? It provides an easier to
use environment,  it can be customized for i18n and even parsing KiCad
files to show them  as SVG if someone writes a plugin for it. The
documentation could be exported and shipped in each release, too.



Relevant links:
https://forum.kicad.info/t/simulating-kicad-schematics-in-spice/
http://mithatkonar.com/wiki/doku.php/kicad/kicad_spice_quick_guide
http://esim.fossee.in
https://github.com/Oscad
http://www.iitb.ac.in

Kind regards.

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015,  wrote:

>  Hello,
>
> I reported the bug #1511552 and suggested to provide a patch. I'd like to
> hear
> your suggestions and objections to what I was to going to do.
>
> In short (details in the bug report):
>
> In EESchema, it is hard to create a schema that can be used simultaneously
> for
> Spice simulations and Pcb creations. For instance, because the pin order of
> the components for Pcb and for Spice needs to be different. The following
> two
> patches have resolved some of the problems: #706558, #743027. But there are
> still other problems that persist:
>
> 1. Prefixes of component references in schemas follow different conventions
> (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_designator) than those
> required
> by Spice.
>
> 2. Component values (like 3k3 or 2M7) commonly used in schemas don't work
> in
> Spice.
>
> 3. The default KiCad component libraries are not prepared for Spice
> simulations. Which is a problem for a KiCad newbie who a) does not have his
> own modified libraries b) isn't even aware of the need of such library
> modifications and wonders why the simulation doesn't work (like me some
> days
> ago).
>
> So I'm proposing to create another patch in the line of the two already
> accepted patches, as described in the bug report. I'm aware that the
> current
> Spice netlist exporter is poorly designed and that the two already accepted
> patches are kind of hack. And my patch will be no different. But I don't
> have
> time and energy to implement a full-featured Spice support.
>
> Please, read my intended patch design in
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1511552/comments/2, and provide
> comments
> and suggestions. So that I don't spend my time on an improvement of a
> feature
> that will be rejected then. It's possible to implement only some of the
> suggested points, and leave the rest for a post-processing.
>
> Thank you,
>  Martin.
> __
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>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Starting with Spanish GUI translation

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.


I'm sorry, I was busy and had hardware problems.

Can be coordinate over transifex, please?


Kind regards.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:33 PM, jp charras  wrote:

> Le 22/10/2015 10:50, Marco Ciampa a écrit :
> > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:02:08AM +0200, i...@elektroquark.com wrote:
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I have just started translating KiCad GUI to Spanish. The existing
> >> translation is very old an only about 1% of the translation is done.
> >>
> >> I'm about the 15% now, but I have a couple of questions and I hope
> >> this is the place to be answered.
> >>
> >> When translating menu entries with hotkeys, sometimes the English
> >> hotkey letter isn't available in the Spanish translation, so, what
> >> is the better solution to solve this?
> >>
> >> Example and options:
> >>
> >> Original text:
> >>
> >> Show 
> >>
> >>
> >> Spanish translation options:
> >>
> >> 1- Mostrar 
> >> 2- Mostrar capas 
> >>
> >>
> >> 1 This option messes up the hotkey list between Languages
> >> 2 This works and shows the hotkey (Shouldn't hotkeys always be
> >> visible? Only a bunch of them are show in KiCad.
> >>
> >> Do you have a better option?
> >>
> >> A last question. When the translation be done, is it OK to post it
> >> here as an attachment?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Iñigo Figuero.
> >>
> >
> > Very good question(s) and IMHO a good solution idea too...
> > I am eager to see the others opinion...
> >
>
> Do not be confused by hotkeys and accelerator keys.
>
> In this case, this is not a hotkey, but an accelerator key for the
> current menu item.
>
> When exist, hotkeys do not appear in menu strings in sources.
> They are dynamically added to these strings at run time, because they
> are editable by users.
>
>
> I am using the option 1 in French translations.
>
>
>
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] UI and usability enhancement

[timofonic timofonic]

Some more feedback.

Just filter to get the relevant stuff, don't care about people sometimes
acting rude. Maybe between that, there might be useful feedback.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=55079.0
Version 4 stable branch rc1 released.
On Aug 31, 2015 10:07 PM, "Attila Kinali"  wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:02:08 +0200
> Attila Kinali  wrote:
>
> > i would select the part, either "generic opamp" to be specified later,
> > an "AD8602*" for which i'd select a footprint later, or an "AD"
> > which is the variant in a SOIC-8 case. And automagically, it would adjust
> > the pin numbering in the schematic to match the footprint
>
> Oops.. editing fail... That should read "AD8602DR" instead of just "AD"
>
> Attila Kinali
>
> --
> I must not become metastable.
> Metastability is the mind-killer.
> Metastability is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
> I will face my metastability.
> I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
> And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
> Where the metastability has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] WARNING: Giant email barrage for bug subscribers in 29 hours

[timofonic timofonic]

Is this common in bug trackers? Why?
On Sep 24, 2015 7:13 PM, "LordBlick"  wrote:

> In response to a message written on 24.09.2015, 18:58, from Jon Neal:
>
>> I am about to switch all of the "Fix Committed" bugs on the bug tracker to
>> "Fix Released" (sans bugs that have been committed since RC1).
>>
>> Launchpad is going to send an email out for every. single. bug. All 854 of
>> them. Yay!
>>
>> I will be running the script to update them at *6pm EST on September 25th*
>> (in exactly 29 hours). Create a filter or do whatever you need to do so
>> you
>> don't get swamped with emails from launchpad.
>>
> All subscribers temporary can change subscription options to „Branch
> revision notification only”
>
> https://code.launchpad.net/~kicad-product-committers/kicad/product/+edit-subscription
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> LordBlick
>
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[Kicad-developers] Are there plans to make an official portable version?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I would like to have an official portable KiCad version for Windows systems
and an easy way to synchronize it with my usual KiCad installations
(vocational schools, home computer...).

Are there any plans for that? The sync configuration utility night be
useful for multiple installations too.

Kind regards.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Caching/storimg datasheets in KiCad for offline use?

[timofonic timofonic]

On Sep 22, 2015 5:42 PM, "David Cary" <d.cary+2...@ieee.org> wrote:

(snip)

> A tool that caches/stores datasheets locally sounds like a tool that
> would be useful to many people, even people that don't have KiCad
> installed.

Code reusability is very desired in the FOSS world, incrementally and
evolutionary improving it by all the involved parts. This saves resources
that could be used in other tasks, instead of "reinventing the wheel".

It's a win-win situation. One of the FOSS goals is about collaboration, not
competition.

A reusable solution would be desired, of course.

> Are you using a web browser to navigate to the URL of the datasheet?
> Is there some way to get the web browser to cache that datasheet, and
> wouldn't that be better than to get KiCad to cache the datasheet?

I unfortunately need to use a web browser for it and these days both sites
and browsers are extremely bloated.

I need to dig into tons of sites with zillions of annoying ads. Ad blockers
partially solve it, but there's tons of redirections and such. I understand
that's how they get profit in their business,  but it's based on
manipulate, torture and annoying to users.

I did read about paid subscription services that provide high quality
datasheets. I don't have the money and not sure about their real
reliability and if they improve the bad quality ones.

When I find datasheets, I often get:
- Crappy quality ones. Often scanned with bad OCR instead quality ones with
real text and vectorial images.
- Even if quality is okay they might have annoying watermarks that might
make difficult to read some data.
- Many of them might have scarce information, specially parts largely
manufactured by different manufacturers. In these unfortunate occasions I
might need to look into various ones to get all the needed data.
> This crap is very time consuming, boring and depressing. So it might
be good if pain is shared, aka crowdsourcing it. Putting the good one(s) in
KiCad libraries make us happier, save us time and be another potential
killer app.

> I am reluctant to spend time writing yet another client-side caching
> proxy server from scratch, without understanding:
> How would that work any better than your web browser's cache or the
> existing caching proxy servers listed on the following pages?:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_cache
> http://www.jroller.com/bantunes/entry/open_source_caching_proxy_servers
>
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Proxying_and_Filtering/Products_and_Tools/Software/Server/

I understand it, but anyway...

How would you identify it's a datasheet and not a regular site with PDF?
Bayesian filtering? There's zillions of sites providing datasheets, even
you might get it in a forum or FTP if you need it for some old part.

Caching every PDF might fill your HDD or reduce performance.

> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Adam Wolf
> <adamw...@feelslikeburning.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > KiCad works just fine without an internet connection, and based on the
> > strong opinions of many of the developers,I can only assume it will
remain
> > so for a long time.
> >
> > Caching proxy servers are available written in many languages, but are
not
> > part of KiCad.
> >
> > There is also a datasheet field, iirc, which can open PDF data sheets
when
> > they are stored on your system.

Isn't the datasheet field usually an URL?

It's okay. I just mean a wizard/plugin in form of a Python script to fetch
them and maybe check to get new ones in updated libraries. Just like with
parts libraries.

Kind regards
> > Adam Wolf
> > Cofounder and Engineer
> > Wayne and Layne
> >
> > On Sep 21, 2015 5:14 PM, "timofonic timofonic" <timofo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello.
> >>
> >> I often get located at places without internet connectivity. This is
> >> annoying.
> >>
> >> What about a Python script that caches/stores datasheets locally?
Would it
> >> be possible?
>
> --
> David Cary
> +1(918)813-2279
> http://OpenCircuits.com/
> http://david.carybros.com/
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Re: [Kicad-developers] About the UNIX way (was "Re: Caching/storimg datasheets in KiCad for offline use?")

[timofonic timofonic]

You know what I mean, you just like to joke at it ;)

The classical UNIX way is a lot more different than today's one. Things are
fuzzy and more abstracted than the old days. I think some approachs are
obsolete these days by the big amount of data a computer is able to manage,
so UNIX ways must evolve. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I may consider today UNIXes are a mix of features from lots other Operating
Systems, but that's part of evolution by contamination. The beast has
changed  and still does in all fronts (Linux,  BSD, OSX?.. ), this isn't a
hard unmovable standard but a living ecosystem, despite SUS and other stuff.

KiCad runs on Windows and who knows if someone ports it to other different
platforms that are even more far from UNIX. There's exotic platforms such
as MorphOS and AmigaOS probably lack of a proper EDA tool, but maybe they
would demand ARexx support in their ports ;)

I would even love to see KiCad on Android, iOS, eComStation, BBOS and even
Atari (you can have a somewhat modern Atari by using aranym). Those require
additional developers, I hope they appear. A secondary effect could be a
very robust codebase, but maybe the C++ subset would need to be reduced
because of compiler features.

No more weird discussions, not more off-oftopic. I don't want start an
endless flamebait! I'm sorry.

Peace, coding, electronics and love.

Timofonic
On Sep 22, 2015 11:54 PM, "LordBlick" <lordbl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In response to a message written on 22.09.2015, 23:10, from timofonic
> timofonic:
>
>> - Xorg used some kind of networking too and is getting progressively
>> deprecated
>> to Wayland with a different approach.
>> - Traditional hackish init system is replaced to SystemD by merging,
>> standardizing and integrating lots of services. This is something "True
>> UNIX
>> People" hate, so they forked udev and use OpenRC or switch to BSD, but
>> there's
>> tendencies that BSDs might switch to the SystemD model too.
>>
>> - Desktop Environments don't follow the " UNIX way " too. They use lots of
>> libraries and frameworks, provide configuration and even provide
>> applications in
>> default metapackages too.
>>
> Are you trying to tell that D-Bus & systemd are not „Unix-Way”?
> BTW. Everywhere Unix goes, it will be Unix Way… ;)
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> LordBlick
>
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[Kicad-developers] Caching/storimg datasheets in KiCad for offline use?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I often get located at places without internet connectivity. This is
annoying.

What about a Python script that caches/stores datasheets locally? Would it
be possible?

Kind regards.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] KiCad usability (was Re: cvpcb alternative)

[timofonic timofonic]

While this may be a bit grumpy and outdated, imayve would be interesting
(there's tiny bits on comments too).
http://www.bigmessowires.com/2014/12/09/eagle-vs-kicad-revisited/

It would be great if experienced users of high end and expensive EDA tools
would do a comparative analysis and detailed review against KiCad. This
could show the strong and weak points if mica's, plus what experienced
designers expect from an EDA package.

If course, please take into account newbies and students. Maybe an "easy
mode" button for "lusers" would be interesting to us ;)
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[Kicad-developers] HeeksCAD and HeeksCNC: Possible KiCad cousins?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I found the following HeeksCAD and HeeksCNC projects:
https://github.com/Heeks

What do you think about it? Could it become interesting to KiCad? They both
use WxWidgets too.

Kind regards.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] KiCad usability (was Re: cvpcb alternative)

[timofonic timofonic]

I find this effort quite interesting to see. Maybe it can provide many
ideas too.

http://ludzinc.blogspot.com/2014/04/whats-all-this-kicad-stuff-anyhow.html
http://ludzinc.blogspot.com/2014/05/closing-kicad-gaps.html
On Sep 20, 2015 3:38 AM, "timofonic timofonic" <timofo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's a nice start! Thanks!
>
> Currently they use Circuit Wizard for teaching basic electronics. I think
> it surpasses Fritzing on lots of many ways, because Fritzing is too centric
> on stuff like Arduino.
>
> I have weird ideas to share, but I like some concepts from other apps. I
> miss a proper breadboard app too (the writing still drives me totally
> insane), like the one on Ultiboard and Circuit Wizard.
> On Sep 18, 2015 10:55 AM, "Javier Serrano" <
> javier.serrano.par...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:51 AM, timofonic timofonic
>> <timofo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Mailing list seems like a disaster place to sniff organization.
>> > What about connecting and merging that information?
>> > What about using a wiki?
>>
>> We keep track of things we see on the mailing list and other forums here:
>>
>> http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki/UI_improvements
>>
>> For the time being it is informal and only has the ambition of not
>> missing any important bit. When we have some more time, we plan to
>> turn it into a proposed work package to be discussed on this list. If
>> you want to contribute ideas, on or off-list, you are very welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Javier
>>
>
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[Kicad-developers] Survival Guide to Lonely KiCad & Linux user (at school/university/...)?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I'm currently still the only schoolmate using Linux in a vocational school.
I have suspicions this will make lots of issues, specially in teamwork
project.

Fortunately they provide dual boot to Linux Mint.

There's only five schoolmates at this time, but they'll arrive a lot more
later (unfortunately). This is a hard situation and lack of OrCAD
interoperability will be a pain in the ass unless I lobby very aggressively
in a positive way to make schoolmates use KiCad, such as by teaching them
to use instead KiCad more proficiently than OrCAD.

I need to translate KiCad to Spanish as part of this lobbying strategy. But
I'm unsure what to do.

They usually use an old version of OrCAD 9.x) because simpler than newer
ones and used KiCad in the past but disliked many things of it (the teacher
didn't got into details). I might report active feedback from teachers,
they are EE and some of them like to program too.

Unfortunately all machines are custom root protected, so I must do some
social engineering too to make sysadmins add some PPAs I usually need at
least. Let's see what I can do, but I hate to use Windows a lot.

Kind regards.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] KiCad usability (was Re: cvpcb alternative)

[timofonic timofonic]

That's a nice start! Thanks!

Currently they use Circuit Wizard for teaching basic electronics. I think
it surpasses Fritzing on lots of many ways, because Fritzing is too centric
on stuff like Arduino.

I have weird ideas to share, but I like some concepts from other apps. I
miss a proper breadboard app too (the writing still drives me totally
insane), like the one on Ultiboard and Circuit Wizard.
On Sep 18, 2015 10:55 AM, "Javier Serrano" <javier.serrano.par...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:51 AM, timofonic timofonic
> <timofo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Mailing list seems like a disaster place to sniff organization.
> > What about connecting and merging that information?
> > What about using a wiki?
>
> We keep track of things we see on the mailing list and other forums here:
>
> http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki/UI_improvements
>
> For the time being it is informal and only has the ambition of not
> missing any important bit. When we have some more time, we plan to
> turn it into a proposed work package to be discussed on this list. If
> you want to contribute ideas, on or off-list, you are very welcome.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Javier
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] KiCad usability (was Re: cvpcb alternative)

[timofonic timofonic]

Mailing list seems like a disaster place to sniff organization.

What about connecting and merging that information?

What about using a wiki?
On Sep 14, 2015 12:18 AM, "Nick Østergaard" <oe.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Therea are no single study about that, IIRC, there have been two
> seperate people writing a long email each about it. Please serach the
> mailing list.
>
> 2015-09-14 0:06 GMT+02:00 timofonic timofonic <timofo...@gmail.com>:
> > I agree.
> >
> > KiCad would have lots of advantages by having a proper usability study.
> >
> > Are there some centralized documentation about that?
> >
> > What about contacting OpenUsability?
> >
> > Kind regards.
> >
> > On Sep 10, 2015 8:48 AM, "Mitch Davis" <mjd+launchpad@afork.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yo.
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Jacob Schmidt <tiger12...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>> is remarkably unintuitive; making a footprint is EASY, saving it is
> >>>> HARD.
> >>>
> >>> Where is the unintuitive part? Select library, save footprint; end of
> >>> the story. Slightly more complex if you use the master board repository
> >>> approach (see manual for that).
> >>>
> >>>> The "Select" button sends us to the "Library Browser" when assigning a
> >>>> footprint to a schematic symbol, and that feels like I just travelled
> >>>> back to the dark ages.
> >>>
> >>> Can't really relate with that since 90% of the times I simply *type*
> the
> >>> footprint name, but maybe that's depend on how you have the library
> >>> organized. Agree that having to click thru for selecting a footprint is
> >>> not optimal but that's expected to be used for lesser modifications, as
> >>> I said before. *Could* get better, I agree on that. Would need
> >>> volontaries for that :P
> >>>
> >>
> >> A video response, as it were:
> >> https://youtu.be/h7DaMB7lPnA
> >
> >
> > I too struggle with this.  Every single time.  For every new project
> there's
> > five minutes of pointless trial and error while I work out how to create
> the
> > first footprint in the first project library, and hook it up to my board.
> >
> > We can learn a lot by watching how others use our software, and Jacob's
> > video is a great example.  I think our response shouldn't be "Jacob,
> you're
> > doing it wrong, you should be doing it this way", but "what leads people
> > like Jacob to think our software works this way, and how can we change
> it so
> > the guesses people make turn out to be the right ones"?
> >
> > Many years ago, Sun paid to have a useability study done on StarOffice
> (now
> > OpenOffice/LibreOffice)
> >
> >   http://www.openoffice.org/ux/reports/2001/berkeley/
> >
> > The lessons learned from watching, recording and analysing how regular
> users
> > use the software were fed back into StarOffice, and usability went up a
> > great deal as a result.
> >
> > There are even some folks who are very interested in usability of open
> > source:
> >
> >   http://openusability.org/
> >
> >> --because I'm frustrated, nothing more.
> >
> >
> > A basic rule of the service industry is that for every customer who
> > complains, there are 100 who had the same problem, but didn't speak up.
> We
> > need to look at how people new to KiCad use our software.
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
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> >
>
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[Kicad-developers] Making translation easier: Any non-developer non-geek friendly approach?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

Currently, there are some .po files and instructions to translate KiCad,
among other things. While this can be easy to developers, I believe it can
be very painful to non-developers.

I want to help translating all of KiCad to Spanish, even the main website
and translate news (blogs?). I'm unfortunately having some IRL issues that
are still making me unable to start on it, but I'm sorting them.

These days I did remember about the following software or SaaS could help a
lot in crowdsourcing translation efforts though a web interface.

http:// pootle.translatehouse.org


https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Translating_LibreOffice

https :// translatewiki.net

http:// otrance.de /
en / 
http:// zanata.org 
https :// weblate.org

https://poeditor.com
https://www.transifex.com (older version is Open Source at https
://
github.com
/
transifex
/
transifex
/
 )
https://github.com/matecat/ MateCat


Software:

http:// virtaal.translatehouse.org

I have no idea about what's the better tool, the feasibility of it and if
it deserves the effort. I just want to send this message so contributors
could debate about it.

Kind regards!
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[Kicad-developers] KiCad usability (was Re: cvpcb alternative)

[timofonic timofonic]

I agree.

KiCad would have lots of advantages by having a proper usability study.

Are there some centralized documentation about that?

What about contacting OpenUsability?

Kind regards.
On Sep 10, 2015 8:48 AM, "Mitch Davis"  wrote:

Yo.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Jacob Schmidt  wrote:

>
> is remarkably unintuitive; making a footprint is EASY, saving it is
>>> HARD.
>>>
>> Where is the unintuitive part? Select library, save footprint; end of
>> the story. Slightly more complex if you use the master board repository
>> approach (see manual for that).
>>
>> The "Select" button sends us to the "Library Browser" when assigning a
>>> footprint to a schematic symbol, and that feels like I just travelled
>>> back to the dark ages.
>>>
>> Can't really relate with that since 90% of the times I simply *type* the
>> footprint name, but maybe that's depend on how you have the library
>> organized. Agree that having to click thru for selecting a footprint is
>> not optimal but that's expected to be used for lesser modifications, as
>> I said before. *Could* get better, I agree on that. Would need
>> volontaries for that :P
>>
>>
> A video response, as it were:
> https://youtu.be/h7DaMB7lPnA
>

I too struggle with this.  Every single time.  For every new project
there's five minutes of pointless trial and error while I work out how to
create the first footprint in the first project library, and hook it up to
my board.

We can learn a lot by watching how others use our software, and Jacob's
video is a great example.  I think our response shouldn't be "Jacob, you're
doing it wrong, you should be doing it this way", but "what leads people
like Jacob to think our software works this way, and how can we change it
so the guesses people make turn out to be the right ones"?

Many years ago, Sun paid to have a useability study done on StarOffice (now
OpenOffice/LibreOffice)

  http://www.openoffice.org/ux/reports/2001/berkeley/

The lessons learned from watching, recording and analysing how regular
users use the software were fed back into StarOffice, and usability went up
a great deal as a result.

There are even some folks who are very interested in usability of open
source:

  http://openusability.org/

--because I'm frustrated, nothing more.
>

A basic rule of the service industry is that for every customer who
complains, there are 100 who had the same problem, but didn't speak up.  We
need to look at how people new to KiCad use our software.

Mitch.

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[Kicad-developers] Export to IPC-2581

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

In order to not hijack the ODB++ discussion, here's this other message.

Is IPC-2581 support feasible? They mention about being open. But I'm not
sure how open, because isn't an ISO/IEC/ECMA/IEEE standard and that worries
me.

It seems most IPC standards require certification and documentation is
sold, not free at all.

Here's an old "bug" about adding IPC-2581 support: https
://
bugs.launchpad.net
/
kicad
/+bug/594013


This is the related IPC-2581 open source stuff I found:
https://github.com/curtacircuitos/pcb-tools/commit/29deffcf77e963ae81aec9f8cbc61b029f3052d5
https://github.com/Cobra-Kao/ipc2581_to_odb

A Japanese guy said the following: " As a hobby, wrote my own IPC-2581
parser which covers all (161?) tags. Used Perl script to automatically
generate most part (about 7000 lines in C++) of parser code, from "formal"
format definition in xsd (2249 lines)."
http://www.naymz.com/takushiitadani2813467
http://www.yatedo.fr/p/Takushi+Itadani/normal/1150312ae839c4d532298caf9921387c

Some subtle reference to IPC-2581

It's free to join the consortium, but it requires a corporate entity it
seems: http://www.ipc2581.com/index.php/join-the-consortia

There's Associate Membership too:
http://www.ipc2581.com/index.php/associate-membership

Here are free viewers: http://
www.ipc2581.com
/
index.php
/ipc-2581-files


Some general information, press releases and such

http://www.eevblog.com/2012/09/13/eevblog-349-smcba-lecture-ipc-2581-open-standards-for-pcb-design-data/

An user said the following about IPC-2581: "IPC-2581 is similar to the
Linux OS as it's an open source code with a consortium developing it.
Hopefully there will only be one flavor."
http://www.pcblibraries.com/forum/ipc2581_topic886.html

http://www.multi-circuit-boards.eu/en/support/pcb-data/ipc-2581.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20140806104621/http://www.cadence.com/Community/blogs/ii/archive/2012/10/02/pcb-west-update-how-ipc-2581-data-transfer-standard-is-moving-forward.aspx

Academic paper describing stuff to add to PCBNEW, including IPC-2581:
BIDULOCK, Brian. PCBNEW Wishlists, Blueprints, Design and Implementation
Notes. 2010.
http://www.openss7.org/docs/NOTES.pdf

http://www.cadence.com/products/pcb/pages/ipc.aspx

http://www.odb-sa.com/community/topic/article-mentor-to-support-ipc-2581-to-printed-circuit-design-fab-magazine-on/

http://pcdandf.com/pcdesign/index.php/news-itemid-fix/7627-mentor-to-support-ipc-2581

http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36_id=1319781

http://www.pcb-investigator.com/en/forum/ipc2581-better-odb

http://signal-integrity.blogs.keysight.com/2012/o-is-for/

http://techdocs.altium.com/display/ADOH/IPC-2581+Support (ironically, you
need to BUY the plugin)
On Sep 12, 2015 6:11 PM, "Tomasz Wlostowski" 
wrote:

On 12.09.2015 18:04, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> Not GPL-compatible because the restriction would apply to anyone making
> a derivative of KiCad as well. The only way I can see to do this is a
> clean-room reverse engineering, which does not appear to be feasible.

Use plugins. The ODB++/IPC-2581 ones could be kept outside mainline
Kicad if we would ensure they can be easily installed by a non-programmer.

- my 5 cents,
Tom



>
> On Sep 10, 2015 12:48 PM, "Mark Roszko"  > wrote:
>
> Nope, you don't have to advertise for Mentor Graphics
>
> Here are the terms:
>
> 4. PROMOTION.
>
> Participant agrees to promote the integration between the ODB++ Format
> and the Participant Products by: (i) joining the ODB++ Solutions
> Alliance as a “solutions development partnering” member, via the ODB++
> Website, including providing a quote about Participant’s ODB++ Format
> implementation for use in Mentor Graphics’ promotional materials and
> on the ODB++ Website; (ii) allowing Mentor Graphics to use
> Participant’s logo in Mentor Graphics promotional materials and on the
> ODB++ Website; (iii) including a brief factual statement on the ODB++
> Format implementation in Participant’s promotional materials and a
> link from Participant’s website to the ODB++ Website; (iv) making a
> visible acknowledgement in the Participant’s Products (user-interface
> and documentation) of the support received from Mentor Graphics under
> this Agreement for the implementation of the ODB++ Format; and (v)
> agreeing to the publication by Mentor Graphics of the existence 

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

[timofonic timofonic]

I see.

What about IPC-2581? Is really open? Do PCB manufacturers support it?

http://www.ipc-2581.com

If yes: Would be possible to have the KiCad logo here eventually?

http://www.ipc-2581.com/index.php/members-on-top
On Sep 12, 2015 5:00 PM, "Thiadmer Riemersma" 
wrote:

>
> What about clean room reverse engineering?
>>
> I'd advise against this. I have browsed through the ODB+ specification.
> Clean room reverse engineering is a massive undertaking. ODB+ may have its
> advantages, but I doubt it is worth the cost of reverse engineering.
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema ERC should detect unmatched local labels

[timofonic timofonic]

I have a naive idea...

What about release the stable branch when all bugs and other issues
(performance?) get resolved and then keep these changes to another release
with smaller but useful changes?

I believe this can give many advantages:

- Finally a STABLE version gets released after many years. Please avoid
excessive delays, even if that means a bugfix release. Better soon with
some to polish later than delay it and waste the newly gained interest in
KiCad.

- Minor versions could be nice gifts and keep attention span from users,
developers and media.
On Sep 11, 2015 8:02 PM, "Wayne Stambaugh"  wrote:

> Joseph,
>
> I've already made the call for no new features.  If I allow this change
> then that opens the flood gates for everyone else to ask for an
> exception.  We are so far behind were I would like to be on the stable
> release that I do not want to jeopardize things any longer.  Please keep
> this in a separate branch so it's ready to be merged into the product
> branch as soon as the stable release is complete.  I appreciate you
> understanding regarding this decision.  Also, please keep in mind that
> we make every effort to keep the product branch as stable as possible so
> that developers and users are willing to keep testing it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wayne
>
> On 9/11/2015 3:58 AM, Joseph Chen wrote:
> > @JP and @Wayne,
> >
> > Would you take a patch for fixing this ERC's not detecting local labels?
> > I know we were reminded not to, but I believe this fix should be in the
> > stable release.  See my explanation below.
> >
> > On 09/01/2015 12:09 AM, jp charras wrote:
> >> Le 01/09/2015 04:59, Joseph Chen a écrit :
> >>> On 08/31/2015 05:10 AM, jp charras wrote:
>  Le 28/08/2015 04:54, Joseph Chen a écrit :
> > This is a resubmitting of a patch file (attached)  that fixes the
> > issue
> > of [Bug 1487945].  This time it it more coding style compliant as
> > suggested in other developer's comments.
> >
> > The fix passed tests on Ubuntu 15.04, based off KiCAD BZR 6133
> >
> > --Joe
>  Committed. Thanks.
> >>> Thank you JP!  I am now working on enabling ERC to catch errors of
> >>> unmatched LOCAL labels as well.
> >>>
> >>> --Joe
> >>>
> >> Unmatched LOCAL labels are a frequent case: they can just name a
> >> connection to help routing, create schematic documentation, or can just
> >> act as a comment in schematics+boards (I am widely use them).
> >>
> >> Unmatched LOCAL labels are in many cases not an error.
> >> Detecting them can be useful, but this detection have to be
> >> enabled/disabled on option.
> > In my local working branch, I was able to make this ERC's detecting
> > unmatched local labels work as suggested by JP:
> > Within the ERC pop-up dialog window, there is an added extra check box
> > for detecting unmatched local labels.  By default, the check box is
> > "un-checked". When a user clicks to enable it, the ERC is able to report
> > any and all unmatched local labels.
> >
> > Here is why I think this ERC's detecting unmatched local labels is
> > essential:
> >
> > 1. At work, I am using OrCAD Capture for schematic, and I always use
> > OrCAD's local labels as the netlists for track connections, as do other
> > designers in the team.
> >
> > 2. At home, then, when working on my hobby projects, I am using KiCAD
> > with the same habit and discipline of using the local labels for intra
> > sheet netlists.
> >
> > 3. When these local labels are either misspelled or forgotten at some
> > other ends of the parts, they become unmatched and thus result in single
> > netlist names.
> > 4. When current KiCAD does not detect these unmatched local labels, here
> > is a sure worst scenario: the PCB made with this unmatched local labels
> > will not have the intended ratnets and thus no copper tracks will be
> > laid out.  Ultimately it is rendered a non working PCB.
> >
> > Let me know if you have any questions,
> >
> > --Joe
> >
> >
> > ___
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[Kicad-developers] Some personal, fastly written and naive early draft notes about trying to understand KiCad

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I wrote this as a very early draft in order to understand KiCad better and
the planning of the project.

I'm sure it's highly inaccurate, full of mistakes and written in a not so
good English.

This is part of my personal project to understand KiCad, some inaccurate
research notes and personal ideas I would like to refine.

Any feedback (corrections, suggestions, information sources...) will be
very welcomed.

I would like to know opinions about it, inconsistencies and other ideas. I
would like to research about KiCad history and involved developers in a
detailed way too, if the KiCad Team agree on it.

I plan even to persuade the teachers in my vocational school to make this
possible Spanish/English article as homework.

It will be about:

- Software: KiCad, other useful tools such as QUCS.
- FOSS: Importance in society and what can provide to electronics.
- OSHW: Explaining historical roots, such as homebrew computers and the
classic hacker culture, plus current trends.
- Advantages in learning electronics by using: Copyleft learning material,
FOSS/OSHW communities, forums and mailing lists, videoblogs.
- Active Learning in electronics.

My basic understanding about the development of KiCad:
--

I see KiCad is manpower limited and needs to complete certain goals and not
waste resources.

I think to understand KiCad have very important tasks to be done to be
future proof:

- I understand KiCad needs desperately a massive and careful refactoring.
* Maybe there's still too much cowboy coding and stuff to clean before
implementing important but complex features.
* Maybe part of that refactoring could help making the code easier to
understand to new developers.
** This would mean following somewhat strict and defined coding practices,
very documented code and other stuff developers are aware of it for sure.

My understanding about potential KiCad sectors
---

- Hackers: People very enthusiastically interested and active in
electronics and programming field that just would like to participate in a
community project.
* They can be programmers with interest in electronics, even being very
skilled professional programmers donating part of their spare time.
* They can be in the electronics field but interested in programming too as
a secondary field to explore.

- Hobbyists/Makers: Some already switched from Eagle to KiCad, but many of
them switched to free but vendor lock-in alternatives or may encounter some
barriers: Interoperability, UX, performance on low end computers.

- EEs: They are used to many high end solutions such as Cadence Allegro,
Altium, OrCad and others.
* They might be very used to certain features and/or workflows, probably
more in very complex designs.
* Reach these goals are very difficult to do, but not impossible if the
project grows.

- Companies, educational sector, NGOs:
* Organizations don't wanting to spend big sums of money in EDA software or
unable to afford it, even using old versions or illegitimate ones.
* They might have developers in their organization. In other cases like
certain countries, they could hire one for less than the license cost.
** This way they may be able to contribute to make KiCad match their needs
and even finally reduce costs. And avoid illegitimate practices, too.

Some goals I personally consider important:
--

* Advanced and reliable file format interoperability: Deal with it, the
situation is even worse than Office suites and needing to redo projects
might unmotivate many people.
* Usability: People are already extremely used to common practices and
features in popular propietary software.
** I don't see pragmatic to be the small guy in town fighting against the
big ones, I believe a different strategy should be done.
** I think  behaving more like them and not look too different might be
better in a logic and comprehensive way by "copying" the good usable stuff
and avoid the bad ones.
*** Maybe it could make transition easier. I think LibreOffice does it in a
smart way.

* Very powerful scripting capabilities and a central repository, even
trying to surpass capabilities of high end and mid end EDA software.

* Easy collaborative Edition, providing visual diffs and other stuff.

My defense on "Release early, release often"
--

- Release incremental releases with minor and less bug prone but useful
changes could give more sense of activity.
* This could provide more stimulation to users about the project, having
new things to use and explore.
** You can think about it as giving small gifts to keep interest in
following new versions.
* I think this could enhance the community feeling and promote a more
active participation.
* People like to see new things, it's something wired in our brains.
* Because of these minor but interesting releases, there could be more
media exposure and work as a form of 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkey summary

[timofonic timofonic]

I think this would be a great usability improvement if the hotkeys are
arranged homogeneously in both applications. This is one usability issue
that seemed very weird to me as trying to switch to KiCad and not used to
complex design programs.

I'm not sure if this change could be substantial to cause bugs in the
upcoming release, that's something developers know.

What do you think about it?
On Sep 8, 2015 9:13 PM, "Rob Maris"  wrote:

> Am 08.09.2015, 21:04 Uhr, schrieb Nick Østergaard :
>
> What is your intention or goal with this?
>>
>
> Oh, just a contribution to documentation, whether one could use it or not
> - that's his or her matter. I created this for an employee who's quite
> mouse oriented.
>
>
>> 2015-09-08 21:00 GMT+02:00 Rob Maris :
>>
>>> From the hotkey export for eeschema and pcbnew I created a
>>> libreoffice/pdf
>>> sheet that's intended to provide a comprehensive view on the hotkeys.
>>>
>>> For this purpose, the hotkeys for both subsystems are put together, and
>>> rearranged according to two criteria:
>>> 1. Those with comparable functionality in both subsystems and especially:
>>> the same key - are listed in parallel.
>>> 2. The functions are grouped in function category, about to be in order
>>> of
>>> usage in typical projects.
>>>
>>> Comments/changes welcome (however, editing the content collaboratively
>>> in a
>>> wiki would be better, or intentionally a few people only take care of
>>> this).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Rob
>>> ___
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad annoyances and niggles

[timofonic timofonic]

On Sep 6, 2015 7:15 AM, "Chris Pavlina" <pavlina.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2015 00:00, "timofonic timofonic" <timofo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have some suggestions and ideas after stable release. Sorry if I
explain them wrong, I hope not!
> >
> > - Why KiCad depends on a practically dead project such as FreeRoute?
It's taken down by Zuken and even adds Java as a dependency, that's a major
annoyance.
> > * What about a similar plugin approach such as the defunct qautorouter?
> > * C-PCB looks promising too, maybe this developer would like some
support our contribute to KiCad in some way.

> There are few exceptions to the general rule that autorouters are toys,
and you can't afford any of those exceptions. ;)

Well, some people like toys, but expensive and propietary toys aren't
desirable for the project. I agree about that, but maybe some insane people
want to use them and provide support in KiCad in some way.

Anyway, I think the qautorouter approach seems saner and more modular.
Unfortunately, the project seems dead.

> I don't think we have a single developer whose time would be best
wast^Wspent on autorouting...
>
> >
> > - What about remove *ALL* legacy code (in the UI stuff only?) and have
GAL only? Then remove cruft, debug, add missing features, optimizing and
provide some kind of faster software rendering.
>
> I think that is the eventual plan, it just needs more time. GAL still
does not implement all of the legacy features.

Are there an accurate list about the differences? Not just about features,
but behaviors.

> >
> > - Please make selecting components and available footprints as easy as
possible: Fast indexed, advanced Octoparts/ ciiva-like  taxonomy. A list of
preferred footprints would be very helpful too
> >
> > - KiCad Librarian and KiParts provides features missing UV the main
software.
> >
> > - Are there some quality  analysts?
>
> Like a static code analyzer? We use Coverity. Or do you mean something
more?

I mean...

-- Statistics about:
- Old rusty/legacy code that needs to be cleaned/refactoring.
- Quality of comments in code.
- Inefficiencies that can be improved

-- Automated testing, including unit/component tests.

> >
> > On Sep 5, 2015 12:46 PM, "David J S Briscoe" <da...@djsbriscoe.vispa.com>
wrote:
> >>
> >> On 01/09/2015 09:28, jp charras wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Le 31/08/2015 21:25, David J S Briscoe a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>> I've just been playing with V6132 of PCBNEW. I have a number of small
> >>>> observations.
> >>>>
> >>>> 1/  In the layer manager toolbar the Top and Bottom layer are named
> >>>> Composant and Cuivre. Why is this even though I am using English as
my
> >>>> language?
> >>>> 2/ The same words are used for the top and bottom layer in the Track
and
> >>>> Via properties dialog.
> >>>
> >>> Copper layers names are user defined.
> >>> These names were given by the designer, and can be modified.
> >>>
> >>>> Track highlighting in OpenGL mode.
> >>>>
> >>>> 1/ When I click on the track highlighting icon the cursor changes to
a
> >>>> large cross. I can then highlight a track. However if I then try to
> >>>> un-highlight the same track I have to
> >>>> move the cursor back to the highlight button and unclick it. When I
do
> >>>> this the board pans uncontrollably off the screen whilst I'm moving
the
> >>>> cursor towards the highlight button.
> >>>> I still can not un-highlight the track. How is a track
un-highlighted.
> >>>> Surely it would be more intuitive to click on the track once to
> >>>> highlight and then again to un-highlight it? How can the panning be
> >>>> turned off or controlled?
> >>>
> >>> This is the net highlight, not the track highlight.
> >>> To un-highlight any highlighted item, click on any other (free)
location.
> >>> It is intuitive.
> >>>
> >>>> Why is the Freeroute Icon still available even though the website
does
> >>>> not work any more? I did click on it but it just provides an
opportunity
> >>>> to export a .ses file. Maybe the tooltip should be changed to
reflect this?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll send in a few more observations next week as I start to use the
> >>>> latest version more. Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> David.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>

Re: [Kicad-developers] Reminder

[timofonic timofonic]

I'm just an user but...

Please make RC1, call it Beta or whatever you might prefer to call it. But
there needs to be a mainstream release to be tested easily by users and
report feedback.

Linus Torvalds said "Release early, release often".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often

Kind regards.
On Sep 8, 2015 2:57 AM, "Ian Woloschin"  wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>
> I was doing a bit of research and found this:
>
>
> https://github.com/caskroom/homebrew-versions/blob/master/Casks/kicad-nightly.rb
>
> I believe it's only pulling down the binaries, and not the libraries
> (that's the kicad-extras package, right?).  I think that's fine, the idea
> being that if you're using homebrew you probably have internet access, but
> we could probably also create a kicad-extras package as well.
>
> There's also already a kicad cask, but it points to the old stable, and
> I'm not sure what the official process is for upgrading that.  I can look
> into that tomorrow, though I suspect it might be as simple as a pull
> request.  Not sure we want to change that until we have an RC build.
>
> I'm not sure if a non-changing URL is necessary or not, it might be better
> to have versioned URLs and just push changes to the caskroom/homebrew-cask
> repository when a new release is up.
>
> And as far as the new human goes, my in-laws are in town for the week and
> I'm making liberal use of their baby holding abilities :).  Besides, it's
> hard to sleep when it's light out and I've just downed a few shots of
> espresso because the baby didn't sleep all night...
>
> -Ian
>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 4:45 PM Adam Wolf 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ian,
>>
>> I think the homebrew cask can point at a dmg on the web, and us packaging
>> folk have already been discussing implementing a non-changing URL redirect
>> that points you to the latest build on your platform.
>>
>> If you find out homebrew cask can pull from a dmg via HTTP (htttps...),
>> let me know and I will promote the stable url in my todo list.
>>
>> Get some sleep and don't put KiCad too high on your to-do list; new
>> humans are pretty cool and so are the people that make them!
>>
>> Adam Wolf
>> Cofounder and Engineer
>> Wayne and Layne
>> On Sep 7, 2015 3:14 PM, "Ian Woloschin"  wrote:
>>
>>> Haha, no worries.  I'm juggling my phone/laptop and newborn daughter, so
>>> if my emails are gibberish I blame a flailing newborn limb.  Or lack of
>>> sleep.  On the plus side, 2 weeks of paternity leave, and as long as the
>>> baby is sleeping I need something to keep me busy!
>>>
>>> I'll start off trying to do a homebrew cask first, I think that should
>>> be a bit easier, and probably far more popular.  I don't know how easy it
>>> would be to keep it updated (...maybe the build script could generate new
>>> casks?) but I suspect we could easily keep it updated for tagged releases.
>>> I've also got a Funtoo Linux desktop at home, so I'd like to make sure
>>> there's at least an overlay (like a PPA) of up-to-date RC/Stable builds.
>>> Of course, most folks running a source based distro should be ok compiling
>>> a project from source... :)
>>>
>>> I suspect it'll take me a few days to make some progress, but I suspect
>>> it'll take a couple of days for a RC build to be posted anyways.
>>>
>>> -Ian
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 12:19 PM Adam Wolf 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Ha!  That's what I get for not refreshing my email client before
 hitting send...
 On Sep 7, 2015 11:18 AM, "Adam Wolf" 
 wrote:

> I think there already is a homebrew recipe.
>
> It would be nice if someone would make a homebrew cask recipe for my
> nightly OS X builds... ;)
>
> Adam Wolf
> On Sep 7, 2015 10:07 AM, "Ian Woloschin"  wrote:
>
>> User here.  I'd be happy to try and release a Gentoo ebuild in an
>> overlay, but I'd want an RC first, versus live ebuilds, which kind of 
>> suck,
>> since I believe they force a fresh build for every source update.  I'd
>> also be somewhat curious about trying to do a homebrew package for OS X,
>> but from lurking on this list I suspect there's already some folks who
>> might know how to do that already, but if not I'm happy to give it a 
>> shot.
>>
>> -Ian
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 9:29 AM Nick Østergaard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. Also by making an release candidate might motivate packagers
>>> to prepare packages for their system, and then we can catch some
>>> potential problems, and possible get some input to address them for
>>> the release.
>>>
>>> 2015-09-07 14:33 GMT+02:00 Chris Pavlina :
>>> > I second this. Just make the branch! The bugs keep piling in
>>> anyway, and
>>> > most of them are minor - barely reproducible. We're 

Re: [Kicad-developers] [FreeEDA] Requesting your co-operation new version of Oscad, a free and open source EDA tool

[timofonic timofonic]

That's very interesting!

Despite of Proteus quirks, cost and limitations, I liked somewhat the
integrated approach.

Is the circuit simulator switchable? There's another project called QUCS,
it's very promising and has some interesting stuff too.
On Sep 4, 2015 7:02 AM, "Oscad Team"  wrote:

> Hi Wayne/ Cirilo,
>
> The launch of eSim went off well on 22 August 2015. Around 60 faculty from
> various colleges across India attended the same and they are enthusiastic
> to try it out in their colleges. It is around 35 colleges. We shall get the
> updates very soon. eSim uses kiCad for circuit schematic. Hence if the
> colleges start using eSim, they all will be using KiCad for creating
> circuit schematic.
>
> Please let us know if anyone looked at eSim code we had given you earlier.
> The Linux and Windows installer are available on our website (
> http://esim.fossee.in/downloads). Suggestions and feedback are welcome.
>
> We feel that the Ngspice simulation capability can make KiCad a
> comprehensive EDA tool. For further discussions we can set up a Skype call.
> Please let us know your thoughts.
>
> Regards,
> Usha
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Wayne Stambaugh 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the update.  I hope to take a look at this sometime after
>> the upcoming stable release.  If someone else has a chance to give this
>> a try before I do, please let me know your thoughts.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On 7/15/2015 3:50 AM, Oscad Team wrote:
>> > Hi Wayne, Cirilio and the KiCad team,
>> >
>> > Greetings from the eSim (formerly known as FreeEDA/ Oscad) team, FOSSEE,
>> > IIT Bombay!
>> >
>> > We are happy to announce a new more user friendly and better appealing
>> > GUI with added features to our EDA tool. We also chose to give it a new
>> > name. It uses KiCad for creation of circuit schematic and ngspice for
>> > simulation. We have also incorporated additional simulation capability
>> > using Python plotting.  Next month we are planning to launch the tool to
>> > a group of faculty from across India.
>> >
>> > We have used the KiCad code from the product branch (build on July 2014)
>> > in eSim. The steps we follow in our EDA tool are as follows:
>> >
>> >   * Create circuit schematic using KiCad
>> >   * Generate Kicad netlist
>> >   * Convert KiCad netlist to ngspice compatible netlist (using a parser
>> > written in Python)
>> >   * Simulate using ngspice
>> >
>> >
>> > Hence any KiCad user can start using our tool to start simulation
>> > without any problems. We are very eager to integrate the simulation
>> > feature to KiCad so that more people can benefit from it.
>> >
>> > We are sharing the Git repo link for our code,
>> > https://github.com/FOSSEE/eSim. Anyone interested can test the same and
>> > help us improve the code.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > eSim team
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Fahim Khan > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Cirilo,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your suggestion. We will keep our code branches
>> > synchronized with main branches.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Fahim
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 3:42 AM, Cirilo Bernardo
>> > >
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Please try to keep any code branches synchronized with the code
>> > in the main branch. This makes it much easier to maintain the
>> code
>> > and increases the chance of merging it into the main branch in
>> the
>> > future.  There are many abandoned branches out there which
>> people
>> > have spent many hours on but it is impossible to merge with the
>> > main branch because the authors never maintained compatibility
>> > with the main branch.
>> >
>> > - Cirilo
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Oscad Team
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Wayne,
>> >
>> > Thank you for the quick response.
>> >
>> > We shall check the compatibility of our code with KiCad
>> > taken from product branch and let you know the results.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > FreeEDA team
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 5:45 AM, Wayne Stambaugh
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > On 2/12/2015 2:40 AM, Oscad Team wrote:
>> > > Dear Wayne,
>> > >
>> > > Sorry for the delay in replying to you as we were
>> busy developing new
>> > > modules for our project.
>> > >
>> > > We have worked on KiCad, stable version released in
>> July 2013. We made
>> > > changes in the KiCad source code, so that it will
>> generate a netlist
>> > > compatible with ngspice. This 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad annoyances and niggles

[timofonic timofonic]

I have some suggestions and ideas after stable release. Sorry if I explain
them wrong, I hope not!

- Why KiCad depends on a practically dead project such as FreeRoute? It's
taken down by Zuken and even adds Java as a dependency, that's a major
annoyance.
* What about a similar plugin approach such as the defunct qautorouter?
* C-PCB looks promising too, maybe this developer would like some support
our contribute to KiCad in some way.

- What about remove *ALL* legacy code (in the UI stuff only?) and have GAL
only? Then remove cruft, debug, add missing features, optimizing and
provide some kind of faster software rendering.

- Please make selecting components and available footprints as easy as
possible: Fast indexed, advanced Octoparts/ ciiva-like  taxonomy. A list of
preferred footprints would be very helpful too

- KiCad Librarian and KiParts provides features missing UV the main
software.

- Are there some quality  analysts?
On Sep 5, 2015 12:46 PM, "David J S Briscoe" 
wrote:

> On 01/09/2015 09:28, jp charras wrote:
>
>> Le 31/08/2015 21:25, David J S Briscoe a écrit :
>>
>>> I've just been playing with V6132 of PCBNEW. I have a number of small
>>> observations.
>>>
>>> 1/  In the layer manager toolbar the Top and Bottom layer are named
>>> Composant and Cuivre. Why is this even though I am using English as my
>>> language?
>>> 2/ The same words are used for the top and bottom layer in the Track and
>>> Via properties dialog.
>>>
>> Copper layers names are user defined.
>> These names were given by the designer, and can be modified.
>>
>> Track highlighting in OpenGL mode.
>>>
>>> 1/ When I click on the track highlighting icon the cursor changes to a
>>> large cross. I can then highlight a track. However if I then try to
>>> un-highlight the same track I have to
>>> move the cursor back to the highlight button and unclick it. When I do
>>> this the board pans uncontrollably off the screen whilst I'm moving the
>>> cursor towards the highlight button.
>>> I still can not un-highlight the track. How is a track un-highlighted.
>>> Surely it would be more intuitive to click on the track once to
>>> highlight and then again to un-highlight it? How can the panning be
>>> turned off or controlled?
>>>
>> This is the net highlight, not the track highlight.
>> To un-highlight any highlighted item, click on any other (free) location.
>> It is intuitive.
>>
>> Why is the Freeroute Icon still available even though the website does
>>> not work any more? I did click on it but it just provides an opportunity
>>> to export a .ses file. Maybe the tooltip should be changed to reflect
>>> this?
>>>
>>> I'll send in a few more observations next week as I start to use the
>>> latest version more. Thanks.
>>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>> Hi,
> First of all I'd like to apologise for the tone of my original email. I
> did not mean to criticise the fantastic efforts of everyone involved. I'd
> like to thank Orson for the recent work he has done on the net highlighting
> in the OpenGL campus.  Regarding the naming of the layers maybe I should
> have looked at the layers set-up option before I pointed the finger. Anyway
> thanks everyone and I'm really looking forward to the stable release.
>
> David.
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] pcbnew read net list add's / on some net's and not others, with the same net being split, is this correct ?

[timofonic timofonic]

I tried to import several Eagle 6.* and 7.2 projects to KiCad with
unsuccessful results. Did you import the PCB design or the schematic too?
How?

I might try it this this week. Currently I feel sick, I read email and for
mins like a zombie in the armchair or bed.

I did read somewhere the Eagle import was some mind of proof concept and
might have some issues. I'm not sure of the details right now, I'm sure
someone could clarify it a lot better than me.

I did read file format interoperability is in the roadmap, considering
specially the major EDA software file formats. That's for sure.

I'm not sure about the priority of it if compared to lots other planned
tasks to do  after the new stable release finally gets released.

I think to remember to read in some documents that massive code refactoring
is mandatory for some of these tasks. There's the need of the much needed
UX overhaul and strong scripting capabilities (like in Eagle's ULP or
better) too.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There's hope EDA Core Project might finally run and provide some agnostic
libraries for stuff like this to all FOSS EDA/simulator packages out there.
The probabilities are low, but I really hope a miracle happens.
On Aug 26, 2015 6:32 AM, Lachlan Audas laud...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi, I have a strange problem,   I'm opening a Ealge 6.xx pcb,  saving
 it,   then reading the net list from the matching convert eagle sch.

 This works fine, most of the time, but on net list import it prefix's the
 net's with /  and some others is dose not.
 for  example:  the GND net will be split into two net's   GNDand
 /GND,I can't see any reason for this. the flood fill
 will  keep the GNDwhile a PAD  GND net will  get  / added to it.
 Some tracks will be split   SCC  and /SCC.

 I can provided link to a examples if needed.

 Has any one else seen this problem ?


 Lachlan




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[Kicad-developers] I'm interested at working at Spanish translation of documentation and anything, Spanish KiCad community

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I want to contribute with KiCad, this project really deserves it.
Unfortunately I'm not a developer at all.

I can help translating content to Spanish: Documentation, software or any
other stuff that would need it.

I have no idea about Git and . po files, fit example. I translated lots of
documents occasionally, but I never translated software. I'm afraid about
being too difficult to me and need occasional assistance at my issues,
resulting in an annoying workload to the KiCad Team.

Are there any active Spanish contributors in the Team? I did read many
Spanish names that contribute here and some are from CERN.

I'm concerned about the little activity on KiCad Spanish mailing list and
the lack of a strong Spanish community. I see mostly everyone here use old
Eagle cracked versions. I'm going to write an email about it in KiCad-users
and probably a forum post at KiCad.Info too.

Anyway, there's my offer. I want to start translating tomorrow if you
agree, I'll lurk tomorrow in the IRC channel too.

Kind regards.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Helping out with Kicad

[timofonic timofonic]

Just some suggestions:

- Why do you put a blog section? I believe the news section should be the
main part of the site. Just look the sites of projects such as OpenWRT,
LibreOffice and others. I think the news section should have the most
visibility and get updated often, so viewers could see the project is alive
and progressing nicely.
- What about showing latest code changes in the main page too?
- Why are menus so hidden? I think it would be nice to show them more
explicitly.

Anyway, good work!
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Helping out with Kicad

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I can't access the site too.

Anyway, you could access both the Launchpad and GitHub project repositories.

https://launchpad.net/kicad
http://github.com/KiCAD

Are you familiar with IRC? If you are, forget the following text and enter
#kicad from the irc.freenode.net IRC server.

FOSS projects usually have a chat room where users and developers
communicate. The server is Freenode ( irc.freenode.net ) and the channel
(how chatrooms are named is #kicad (# is included, it's a nomenclature to
note channels with that character before their name).

If you lack an IRC client, you could always use the web client.

http://webchat.freenode.net

It's recommended to register your nickname (the user name in the IRC
network) to verify your identity, receive privileges to help manage the IRC
channel plus some services such as memos (messages sent offline that you
read when you connect to the IRC network). I'm sure some users could assist
you with the basic IRC commands, but there's some basic info:

https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml

Kind regards.
On Aug 18, 2015 11:25 PM, Lance Doiron ldoiro...@gmail.com wrote:

 It seems that the server for the domain is having some issues at the
 moment, I a got a 504 (Gateway Timeout) error.

 Lance Doiron
 Electrical Engineer
 207.289.5500


 On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Lance Doiron ldoiro...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you for the insight I will look into it!

 Lance Doiron
 Electrical Engineer
 207.289.5500


 On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Nick Østergaard oe.n...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Lance,

 Thank you for considering KiCad as a place to spend some of your time
 to help out KiCad.

 For general information on how to get started, please have a look at
 [1] and look at [2] for some ideas on where to start. I have tried to
 list some possible easy issues on [2]. But other than that, try to
 browse the issue tracker (I suggest chronologically) and see if there
 are some issues that you fell that you can handle and try to fix them.

 For more handholding and direct response, you might want to join our
 IRC channel #kicad@freenode, there you might be able to gain some
 realtime help if you will need it.

 Regards
 Nick

 [1] http://www.kicad-pcb.org/display/DEV/Getting+Started
 [2] http://www.kicad-pcb.org/display/DEV/How+to+Contribute

 2015-08-14 14:18 GMT+02:00 Lance Doiron ldoiro...@gmail.com:
  Kicad Team,
 
  I am an EE by training and have a passion for open source anything. I
 am
  currently designing an open source motor drive for teaching the DIY
 hacker
  crowd about how PID loops, motor control etc works. I see that Kicad
 has
  potential, and also that Kicad has very few people working on it to
 make it
  better.
 
  I would like to help fix Kicad bugs, which is something only a handful
 of
  crazy nut jobs have said before. I have programmed in Java and python
  before, and dabbled in C++. I am not totally inept when it comes to
  algorithmic coding, however I am not well versed in how OS programs
 run or
  interact with the OS. If somebody who is working on Kicad is willing to
  trade a little bit of hand holding for another person on board to help
 make
  Kicad the next Ubuntu for PCB design, I am willing to help.
 
  I was planning on learning either C++ or Scala to write a desktop app
 for
  interfacing with my new motor drive so I would already be putting the
 time
  in to get semi proficient at C++.  I don't have 40 hours a week to put
 in,
  but I would assume anything is better than nothing!
 
  Lance Doiron
  Electrical Engineer
  207.289.5500
 
 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] wxFormBuilder and the future

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I'm not a developer at all, but I got curious about this.

KiCad is 500KLOC and 80% of it is about GUI, right? Would rewriting dialog
code by hand require to change a lot of code too? Would it reduce LOC?

I see Libreoffice has some kind of similar issue, but the situation is even
worse. It seems to have 864,463 LOC and features their own toolkit named
VCL (20 years old and it seems to be quite outdated by today's standards
too). They would prefer to migrate to something like Qt or Gtk, but the
code is very rooted in the codebase and the required rewrite isn't an easy
task to do at all.

Other projects such as QUCS already use Qt.

I just hope the best future proof solution gets chosen, I really have high
hopes in KiCad becoming the GCC of hardware as CERN said.

Regards.
On Aug 17, 2015 7:26 PM, Wayne Stambaugh stambau...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 8/17/2015 9:14 AM, David Novak wrote:
  To be honest, I've never been a big fan of dialog box layout tools.
  Their strength is there weakness.  They promote designing quick dialog
  box layouts that makes reuse difficult.  Take a look at the padding and
  overall layout in KiCad's dialogs.  They are all over the map.  I prefer
  hand coding dialogs.  It's painfully slow but encourages reuse (well
  designed base dialog classes) and standardization (using wxSizerFlags).
 
  I agree with Wayne. Dialog layout tools are nice to get up and running
  quickly, but the more I use them, the more they get in the way. On
  internal projects, my team ends up implementing workarounds for advanced
  features.
 
  I've recently started trying to convince my team to code the dialogs by
  hand. In my mind, with a little planning up front, hand coding the
  dialog could be relatively quick.
 
  David
 

 Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I thought I was the lone voice in
 the woods when it came to hand coding dialogs.  I doubt we will have an
 easy time convincing everyone else it's a good idea.  That being said,
 we may end up in a position where we have no option if there is not a
 viable open source option.  I would reject using a proprietary tool and
 I don't want to waste precious KiCad development resources maintaining
 wxFormBuilder.

 
  On 8/13/2015 2:41 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
 
  On 8/13/2015 2:05 PM, jp charras wrote:
  Le 13/08/2015 18:36, Eldar Khayrullin a écrit :
  Hi all.
  Maybe in future need to port kicad in other modern gui as qt(
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_(software) )
  A bit overkilled for this issue (if this is an issue).
  I am not especially thrilled by QT.
  This is a very good tool, but it has its own issues.
  Good luck to volunteers who will port 400 000 lines of code relative
  to GUI.
  (80% of code of any application; Kicad has more than 500 000 lines of
  code)
  We'll leave that decision to the next project manager.  This project
  manager is not interested porting KiCad to QT.  This has been discussed
  before.
 
  13.08.2015 13:00, Blair Bonnett пишет:
  Hi all,
 
  It appears wxFormBuilder is, if not dead, not far from it. The
  evidence:
 
  * No stable release in 4 years, and the last beta release was 13
  months ago.
  Although I agree with the fact wxFormBuilder is not actively
 maintained,
  the last release was made the 17 June.
 
  I share your concern about wxFormBuilder.
 
  But replacing it is not easy.
 
  To answer one of your questions, before using wxFormBuilder, I used
  DialogBox (free version).
  I'm reluctant to use proprietary tools for all of the usual reasons.  I
  would rather code dialogs by hand than use a proprietary tool.
 
  It worked fine and was easy to use.
  It is written and maintained by the creator of wxWidgets.
 
  But the user code is embedded in automatically generated DialogBox.
  I did not used recent versions, so it is perhaps now different.
 
  One on the *best features* of wxFormBuilder is the fact it creates
  black box files and all the user code is in other files.
  You even do not need to read them.
 
  Any other candidate should have this feature.
 
  We need volunteers to test other candidates (in fact a very few
  candidates)
  To be honest, I've never been a big fan of dialog box layout tools.
  Their strength is there weakness.  They promote designing quick dialog
  box layouts that makes reuse difficult.  Take a look at the padding and
  overall layout in KiCad's dialogs.  They are all over the map.  I prefer
  hand coding dialogs.  It's painfully slow but encourages reuse (well
  designed base dialog classes) and standardization (using wxSizerFlags).
I got shot down the last time I suggested this and I understand the
  reasoning.
 
 
  * A grand total of 13 commits in the last 12 months (current trunk is
  r2205, r2192 was made on 1 August 2014). A number of these are
  buildsystem / release / changelog (!) updates.
  * No developer responses on the mailing list, including to a message
  three months ago [1] asking if the project was still active.
  * No support for 

[Kicad-developers] C++ autorouter code available...

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

Chris Hinsley developed autorouter code in C++14. Maybe this could be
interesting for a future built-in KiCad autorouting feature.

https https://github.com/vygr/C-PCB:// https://github.com/vygr/C-PCB
github.com https://github.com/vygr/C-PCB/ https://github.com/vygr/C-PCB
vygr https://github.com/vygr/C-PCB/ https://github.com/vygr/C-PCBC-PCB
https://github.com/vygr/C-PCB

There's qautorouter too, but not longer developed and relies in autorouting
engines.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/qautorouter/

Kind regards
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Are there some web code for online schematic PCB reader?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

The idea is to submit the schematics plus used symbols in a .zip container,
then export them to SVG (and maybe .PNG alternative if the web browser
doesn't support it?) and get it embedded in the site (or maybe an
interactive JavaScript viewer?). The perfect solution would be a WordPress
plugin, because it's easy to setup and maybe deployed in a free
WordPress.com site.

Something a bit similar would be CircuitBee.com and EasyEDA.com but with
open source and just the reader part.

But I understand this isn't an easy task, it would require understand all
the file formats, interpret them correctly and code it in a different
language.

Python is okay, but it's easier to find web hosting for php and most
popular CMS are coded on it.

In the same way, a KiCad reader for Android and iPhone would be interesting
to show or see schematics on the go. This could be used by students to show
their work to teachers. Maybe KiCad code could be reused in a project like
this.

There's more important priorities for KiCad at this moment, I understand
it. Maybe somebody did it or some developer is working at it.

LibreOffice has a cloud and Android version in the works, but they have a
lot more resources and tons of full time paid developers involved. A viewer
would be enough.

Anyway, I believe this kind of auxiliary software would help to make KiCad
a lot more popular in the hobbyist/maker and student sectors. I would like
to know if I'm right or wrong.

Kind regards.
On Aug 6, 2015 4:53 PM, Marcos Chaparro nitrous...@gmail.com wrote:

 You can plot a schematic sheet as SVG, and pcbnew has a file-export SVG,
 at least in the latest version.

 A while ago I made a python script generate an html page with all the
 sheets in svg format and clicking the sub-sheets of the first page (top
 level) it jumps to that sheet in the hierarchy, an example is attached, we
 didn't have the time to finish it.



 Marcos

 On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 7:25 AM, timofonic timofonic timofo...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hello.

 I want to make a personal blog for documenting my experience on an
 electronics course. I plan to switch to KiCad, but I'm still trying to
 adapt and I still miss full Eagle interoperability.

 I want to embed my future KiCad designs on blog posts without the need to
 export images, preferably generating SVG images.

 Are there some kind of KiCad reader for web browsers with available
 source code? If not, does someone have plans to develop it?

 Kind regards.

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[Kicad-developers] Are there some web code for online schematic PCB reader?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I want to make a personal blog for documenting my experience on an
electronics course. I plan to switch to KiCad, but I'm still trying to
adapt and I still miss full Eagle interoperability.

I want to embed my future KiCad designs on blog posts without the need to
export images, preferably generating SVG images.

Are there some kind of KiCad reader for web browsers with available source
code? If not, does someone have plans to develop it?

Kind regards.
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