Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I think the size of the hotkey edit dialog issue has been resolved
although now the width seems a bit excessive.  I hope this was not fixed
by setting the default size of the dialog using wxFormbuilder.  This
seems to lead to weird sizing issues on different platforms.  I'm not
sure when this was fixed.

On 1/12/2018 6:58 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> I also don't see the advantage of using the tabbed interface, but we may
> consider making the default size of that dialog bigger in pcbnew. It is
> quite small  right now. It only shows a coupel of lines of the tree view.
> 
> 2018-01-12 20:47 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh  >:
> 
> I actually prefer the tree view.  Having to effectively change windows
> by clicking on a tab to see the hotkeys for different main frame window
> seems like extra work to me.  Collapsing/expanding a tree view feels
> less intrusive.  I'm not sure how this is any less clear than a separate
> tab.  Tree views are used for this kind of hierarchical data for lots of
> different applications and users don't seem to have any issues with
> them.  The other problem is that the Eeschema config dialogs have been
> merged into a single tabbed interface.  If you move to a tabbed
> interface just for the hotkeys, how do reconcile this with editing
> hotkeys with the other main frames?  Adding two hotkey tabs in the
> eescheam config will be a bit odd.  If you keep the tree view in
> eeschema and use tabbed views every where else, you now have and
> inconsistency when setting hotkeys.  I fine either way but this seems
> like a solution in search of a problem to me.
> 
> On 01/11/2018 11:47 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> > I really don't care. The original motivation was simply being able to
> > cleanly put it as a tab inside the preferences dialog without
> nesting, I
> > really didn't think putting them in a single list would make them
> > undiscoverable (and this is the first I've heard that comment, to be
> > honest). But I have no real attachment to it. I just hope we don't end
> > up with nested tabs.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 03:42:12AM +, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> >> Hi All-
> >>
> >> Sorry, this seems to have gotten off-track.  Let's pause the button
> >> discussion for a moment.  I'm really more concerned about the
> tree-list
> >> layout hiding hotkeys from users.  Does anyone feel like we need the
> >> treelist here?
> >>
> >> Chris, I know this was originally your commit and I don't mean to
> be overly
> >> negative about it.  What was the original motivation for it? 
> Would you be
> >> open to my modifying it to improve the accessibility?
> >>
> >> Thanks-
> >> Seth
> >>
> >> On 11. Januar 2018 um 19:24, Andrey Kuznetsov
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> If that would be the intended functionality, then I'd suggest "Reset
> >>> Selected" instead of "Reset".
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:01 AM, yann jautard  > wrote:
> >>>
>  what about  keeping four buttons :
> 
>  *Defaults* that reset all hotkeys *of the current tab* to default
> 
>  *Reset* that reset *the selected* hotkey only to default
> 
>  *Cancel* that close the window and undo the current changes
> 
>  *Save* that close the window and save the current changes
> 
> 
>  With a tooltip when getting the mouse over each button that
> clearly says
>  this.
> 
> 
> 
>  On 11/01/2018 13:16, Clemens Koller wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> >
> > On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> >
> >> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any
> feedback on
> >> whether folks are adverse
> >> to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the
> "Reset" and
> >> "Defaults" buttons,
> >> that I think are really good additions.
> >>
> > I agree, but I still don't understand why we don't use the
> huge screen
> > real-estate we have nowadays on our desks and display all of
> them in one
> > table with i.e. four columns. It would be easy then to check
> the hotkeys
> > across all tools without changing tabs.
> > The Buttons "Default" might become "Reset all Hotkeys to Kicad's
> > defaults. Are you sure Y/N?"
> > The Buttons "Reset" might become "Reset to previous settings"
> - but that
> > might simply be the "Cancel" button.
> >
> >
> > The menu entry Help -> List Hotkeys seems redundant to
> Preferences ->
> > Hotkey Options -> Edit Hotkeys.
> 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Nick Østergaard]

I also don't see the advantage of using the tabbed interface, but we may
consider making the default size of that dialog bigger in pcbnew. It is
quite small  right now. It only shows a coupel of lines of the tree view.

2018-01-12 20:47 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh :

> I actually prefer the tree view.  Having to effectively change windows
> by clicking on a tab to see the hotkeys for different main frame window
> seems like extra work to me.  Collapsing/expanding a tree view feels
> less intrusive.  I'm not sure how this is any less clear than a separate
> tab.  Tree views are used for this kind of hierarchical data for lots of
> different applications and users don't seem to have any issues with
> them.  The other problem is that the Eeschema config dialogs have been
> merged into a single tabbed interface.  If you move to a tabbed
> interface just for the hotkeys, how do reconcile this with editing
> hotkeys with the other main frames?  Adding two hotkey tabs in the
> eescheam config will be a bit odd.  If you keep the tree view in
> eeschema and use tabbed views every where else, you now have and
> inconsistency when setting hotkeys.  I fine either way but this seems
> like a solution in search of a problem to me.
>
> On 01/11/2018 11:47 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> > I really don't care. The original motivation was simply being able to
> > cleanly put it as a tab inside the preferences dialog without nesting, I
> > really didn't think putting them in a single list would make them
> > undiscoverable (and this is the first I've heard that comment, to be
> > honest). But I have no real attachment to it. I just hope we don't end
> > up with nested tabs.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 03:42:12AM +, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> >> Hi All-
> >>
> >> Sorry, this seems to have gotten off-track.  Let's pause the button
> >> discussion for a moment.  I'm really more concerned about the tree-list
> >> layout hiding hotkeys from users.  Does anyone feel like we need the
> >> treelist here?
> >>
> >> Chris, I know this was originally your commit and I don't mean to be
> overly
> >> negative about it.  What was the original motivation for it?  Would you
> be
> >> open to my modifying it to improve the accessibility?
> >>
> >> Thanks-
> >> Seth
> >>
> >> On 11. Januar 2018 um 19:24, Andrey Kuznetsov 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If that would be the intended functionality, then I'd suggest "Reset
> >>> Selected" instead of "Reset".
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:01 AM, yann jautard 
> wrote:
> >>>
>  what about  keeping four buttons :
> 
>  *Defaults* that reset all hotkeys *of the current tab* to default
> 
>  *Reset* that reset *the selected* hotkey only to default
> 
>  *Cancel* that close the window and undo the current changes
> 
>  *Save* that close the window and save the current changes
> 
> 
>  With a tooltip when getting the mouse over each button that clearly
> says
>  this.
> 
> 
> 
>  On 11/01/2018 13:16, Clemens Koller wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> >
> > On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> >
> >> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback
> on
> >> whether folks are adverse
> >> to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the "Reset"
> and
> >> "Defaults" buttons,
> >> that I think are really good additions.
> >>
> > I agree, but I still don't understand why we don't use the huge
> screen
> > real-estate we have nowadays on our desks and display all of them in
> one
> > table with i.e. four columns. It would be easy then to check the
> hotkeys
> > across all tools without changing tabs.
> > The Buttons "Default" might become "Reset all Hotkeys to Kicad's
> > defaults. Are you sure Y/N?"
> > The Buttons "Reset" might become "Reset to previous settings" - but
> that
> > might simply be the "Cancel" button.
> >
> >
> > The menu entry Help -> List Hotkeys seems redundant to Preferences ->
> > Hotkey Options -> Edit Hotkeys.
> > One of the dialogs might be removed.
> > In the latest-git, the Hotkey '?' doesn't work for me. I get a beep,
> > when I am lucky... usually it is just ignored.
> >
> > In Eeschema, the Help -> List Hotkeys doesn't show the '?'
> > There the Hotkey-Editor can be reached via Preferences -> General
> > Options -> Controls Tab...
> >
> > GUI consistency would improve UX a lot. These are IMO the low-hanging
> > fruits to attract users to use Kicad.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Clemens
> >
> > On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> >
> >> I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys
> editor
> >> that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
> >>
> >> I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor
> >> opens with 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I actually prefer the tree view.  Having to effectively change windows
by clicking on a tab to see the hotkeys for different main frame window
seems like extra work to me.  Collapsing/expanding a tree view feels
less intrusive.  I'm not sure how this is any less clear than a separate
tab.  Tree views are used for this kind of hierarchical data for lots of
different applications and users don't seem to have any issues with
them.  The other problem is that the Eeschema config dialogs have been
merged into a single tabbed interface.  If you move to a tabbed
interface just for the hotkeys, how do reconcile this with editing
hotkeys with the other main frames?  Adding two hotkey tabs in the
eescheam config will be a bit odd.  If you keep the tree view in
eeschema and use tabbed views every where else, you now have and
inconsistency when setting hotkeys.  I fine either way but this seems
like a solution in search of a problem to me.

On 01/11/2018 11:47 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> I really don't care. The original motivation was simply being able to
> cleanly put it as a tab inside the preferences dialog without nesting, I
> really didn't think putting them in a single list would make them
> undiscoverable (and this is the first I've heard that comment, to be
> honest). But I have no real attachment to it. I just hope we don't end
> up with nested tabs.
> 
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 03:42:12AM +, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>> Hi All-
>>
>> Sorry, this seems to have gotten off-track.  Let's pause the button
>> discussion for a moment.  I'm really more concerned about the tree-list
>> layout hiding hotkeys from users.  Does anyone feel like we need the
>> treelist here?
>>
>> Chris, I know this was originally your commit and I don't mean to be overly
>> negative about it.  What was the original motivation for it?  Would you be
>> open to my modifying it to improve the accessibility?
>>
>> Thanks-
>> Seth
>>
>> On 11. Januar 2018 um 19:24, Andrey Kuznetsov  wrote:
>>
>>> If that would be the intended functionality, then I'd suggest "Reset
>>> Selected" instead of "Reset".
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:01 AM, yann jautard  wrote:
>>>
 what about  keeping four buttons :

 *Defaults* that reset all hotkeys *of the current tab* to default

 *Reset* that reset *the selected* hotkey only to default

 *Cancel* that close the window and undo the current changes

 *Save* that close the window and save the current changes


 With a tooltip when getting the mouse over each button that clearly says
 this.



 On 11/01/2018 13:16, Clemens Koller wrote:

> Hi!
>
> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>
>> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
>> whether folks are adverse
>> to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the "Reset" and
>> "Defaults" buttons,
>> that I think are really good additions.
>>
> I agree, but I still don't understand why we don't use the huge screen
> real-estate we have nowadays on our desks and display all of them in one
> table with i.e. four columns. It would be easy then to check the hotkeys
> across all tools without changing tabs.
> The Buttons "Default" might become "Reset all Hotkeys to Kicad's
> defaults. Are you sure Y/N?"
> The Buttons "Reset" might become "Reset to previous settings" - but that
> might simply be the "Cancel" button.
>
>
> The menu entry Help -> List Hotkeys seems redundant to Preferences ->
> Hotkey Options -> Edit Hotkeys.
> One of the dialogs might be removed.
> In the latest-git, the Hotkey '?' doesn't work for me. I get a beep,
> when I am lucky... usually it is just ignored.
>
> In Eeschema, the Help -> List Hotkeys doesn't show the '?'
> There the Hotkey-Editor can be reached via Preferences -> General
> Options -> Controls Tab...
>
> GUI consistency would improve UX a lot. These are IMO the low-hanging
> fruits to attract users to use Kicad.
>
> Regards,
>
> Clemens
>
> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>
>> I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor
>> that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
>>
>> I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor
>> opens with a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users 
>> would
>> be forgiven for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific
>> to each application -- see current_hotkeys.png
>>
>> Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more
>> clear -- see prev_hotkeys.png.
>>
>> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
>> whether folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while
>> keeping the "Reset" 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Chris Pavlina]

I really don't care. The original motivation was simply being able to
cleanly put it as a tab inside the preferences dialog without nesting, I
really didn't think putting them in a single list would make them
undiscoverable (and this is the first I've heard that comment, to be
honest). But I have no real attachment to it. I just hope we don't end
up with nested tabs.

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 03:42:12AM +, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> Hi All-
> 
> Sorry, this seems to have gotten off-track.  Let's pause the button
> discussion for a moment.  I'm really more concerned about the tree-list
> layout hiding hotkeys from users.  Does anyone feel like we need the
> treelist here?
> 
> Chris, I know this was originally your commit and I don't mean to be overly
> negative about it.  What was the original motivation for it?  Would you be
> open to my modifying it to improve the accessibility?
> 
> Thanks-
> Seth
> 
> On 11. Januar 2018 um 19:24, Andrey Kuznetsov  wrote:
> 
> > If that would be the intended functionality, then I'd suggest "Reset
> > Selected" instead of "Reset".
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:01 AM, yann jautard  wrote:
> >
> >> what about  keeping four buttons :
> >>
> >> *Defaults* that reset all hotkeys *of the current tab* to default
> >>
> >> *Reset* that reset *the selected* hotkey only to default
> >>
> >> *Cancel* that close the window and undo the current changes
> >>
> >> *Save* that close the window and save the current changes
> >>
> >>
> >> With a tooltip when getting the mouse over each button that clearly says
> >> this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/01/2018 13:16, Clemens Koller wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi!
> >>>
> >>> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> >>>
>  I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
>  whether folks are adverse
>  to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the "Reset" and
>  "Defaults" buttons,
>  that I think are really good additions.
> 
> >>> I agree, but I still don't understand why we don't use the huge screen
> >>> real-estate we have nowadays on our desks and display all of them in one
> >>> table with i.e. four columns. It would be easy then to check the hotkeys
> >>> across all tools without changing tabs.
> >>> The Buttons "Default" might become "Reset all Hotkeys to Kicad's
> >>> defaults. Are you sure Y/N?"
> >>> The Buttons "Reset" might become "Reset to previous settings" - but that
> >>> might simply be the "Cancel" button.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The menu entry Help -> List Hotkeys seems redundant to Preferences ->
> >>> Hotkey Options -> Edit Hotkeys.
> >>> One of the dialogs might be removed.
> >>> In the latest-git, the Hotkey '?' doesn't work for me. I get a beep,
> >>> when I am lucky... usually it is just ignored.
> >>>
> >>> In Eeschema, the Help -> List Hotkeys doesn't show the '?'
> >>> There the Hotkey-Editor can be reached via Preferences -> General
> >>> Options -> Controls Tab...
> >>>
> >>> GUI consistency would improve UX a lot. These are IMO the low-hanging
> >>> fruits to attract users to use Kicad.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Clemens
> >>>
> >>> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> >>>
>  I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor
>  that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
> 
>  I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor
>  opens with a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users 
>  would
>  be forgiven for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific
>  to each application -- see current_hotkeys.png
> 
>  Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more
>  clear -- see prev_hotkeys.png.
> 
>  I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
>  whether folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while
>  keeping the "Reset" and "Defaults" buttons, that I think are really good
>  additions.
> 
>  -S
> 
> 
>  ___
>  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>  Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> 
>  ___
> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Seth Hillbrand]

Hi All-

Sorry, this seems to have gotten off-track.  Let's pause the button
discussion for a moment.  I'm really more concerned about the tree-list
layout hiding hotkeys from users.  Does anyone feel like we need the
treelist here?

Chris, I know this was originally your commit and I don't mean to be overly
negative about it.  What was the original motivation for it?  Would you be
open to my modifying it to improve the accessibility?

Thanks-
Seth

On 11. Januar 2018 um 19:24, Andrey Kuznetsov  wrote:

> If that would be the intended functionality, then I'd suggest "Reset
> Selected" instead of "Reset".
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:01 AM, yann jautard  wrote:
>
>> what about  keeping four buttons :
>>
>> *Defaults* that reset all hotkeys *of the current tab* to default
>>
>> *Reset* that reset *the selected* hotkey only to default
>>
>> *Cancel* that close the window and undo the current changes
>>
>> *Save* that close the window and save the current changes
>>
>>
>> With a tooltip when getting the mouse over each button that clearly says
>> this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/01/2018 13:16, Clemens Koller wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>>>
 I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
 whether folks are adverse
 to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the "Reset" and
 "Defaults" buttons,
 that I think are really good additions.

>>> I agree, but I still don't understand why we don't use the huge screen
>>> real-estate we have nowadays on our desks and display all of them in one
>>> table with i.e. four columns. It would be easy then to check the hotkeys
>>> across all tools without changing tabs.
>>> The Buttons "Default" might become "Reset all Hotkeys to Kicad's
>>> defaults. Are you sure Y/N?"
>>> The Buttons "Reset" might become "Reset to previous settings" - but that
>>> might simply be the "Cancel" button.
>>>
>>>
>>> The menu entry Help -> List Hotkeys seems redundant to Preferences ->
>>> Hotkey Options -> Edit Hotkeys.
>>> One of the dialogs might be removed.
>>> In the latest-git, the Hotkey '?' doesn't work for me. I get a beep,
>>> when I am lucky... usually it is just ignored.
>>>
>>> In Eeschema, the Help -> List Hotkeys doesn't show the '?'
>>> There the Hotkey-Editor can be reached via Preferences -> General
>>> Options -> Controls Tab...
>>>
>>> GUI consistency would improve UX a lot. These are IMO the low-hanging
>>> fruits to attract users to use Kicad.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Clemens
>>>
>>> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>>>
 I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor
 that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.

 I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor
 opens with a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users would
 be forgiven for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific
 to each application -- see current_hotkeys.png

 Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more
 clear -- see prev_hotkeys.png.

 I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
 whether folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while
 keeping the "Reset" and "Defaults" buttons, that I think are really good
 additions.

 -S


 ___
 Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
 Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
 Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
 More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

 ___
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
> future [JFK]
>
> kandre...@gmail.com
> Live Long and Prosper,
> Andrey
>
> ___
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>
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More 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

If that would be the intended functionality, then I'd suggest "Reset
Selected" instead of "Reset".

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:01 AM, yann jautard  wrote:

> what about  keeping four buttons :
>
> *Defaults* that reset all hotkeys *of the current tab* to default
>
> *Reset* that reset *the selected* hotkey only to default
>
> *Cancel* that close the window and undo the current changes
>
> *Save* that close the window and save the current changes
>
>
> With a tooltip when getting the mouse over each button that clearly says
> this.
>
>
>
> On 11/01/2018 13:16, Clemens Koller wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>>
>>> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
>>> whether folks are adverse
>>> to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the "Reset" and
>>> "Defaults" buttons,
>>> that I think are really good additions.
>>>
>> I agree, but I still don't understand why we don't use the huge screen
>> real-estate we have nowadays on our desks and display all of them in one
>> table with i.e. four columns. It would be easy then to check the hotkeys
>> across all tools without changing tabs.
>> The Buttons "Default" might become "Reset all Hotkeys to Kicad's
>> defaults. Are you sure Y/N?"
>> The Buttons "Reset" might become "Reset to previous settings" - but that
>> might simply be the "Cancel" button.
>>
>>
>> The menu entry Help -> List Hotkeys seems redundant to Preferences ->
>> Hotkey Options -> Edit Hotkeys.
>> One of the dialogs might be removed.
>> In the latest-git, the Hotkey '?' doesn't work for me. I get a beep, when
>> I am lucky... usually it is just ignored.
>>
>> In Eeschema, the Help -> List Hotkeys doesn't show the '?'
>> There the Hotkey-Editor can be reached via Preferences -> General Options
>> -> Controls Tab...
>>
>> GUI consistency would improve UX a lot. These are IMO the low-hanging
>> fruits to attract users to use Kicad.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Clemens
>>
>> On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>>
>>> I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor
>>> that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
>>>
>>> I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor opens
>>> with a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users would be
>>> forgiven for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific to
>>> each application -- see current_hotkeys.png
>>>
>>> Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more
>>> clear -- see prev_hotkeys.png.
>>>
>>> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
>>> whether folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while
>>> keeping the "Reset" and "Defaults" buttons, that I think are really good
>>> additions.
>>>
>>> -S
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[yann jautard]

what about  keeping four buttons :

*Defaults* that reset all hotkeys *of the current tab* to default

*Reset* that reset *the selected* hotkey only to default

*Cancel* that close the window and undo the current changes

*Save* that close the window and save the current changes


With a tooltip when getting the mouse over each button that clearly says 
this.



On 11/01/2018 13:16, Clemens Koller wrote:

Hi!

On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:

I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on whether 
folks are adverse
to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the "Reset" and 
"Defaults" buttons,
that I think are really good additions.

I agree, but I still don't understand why we don't use the huge screen 
real-estate we have nowadays on our desks and display all of them in one table 
with i.e. four columns. It would be easy then to check the hotkeys across all 
tools without changing tabs.
The Buttons "Default" might become "Reset all Hotkeys to Kicad's defaults. Are you 
sure Y/N?"
The Buttons "Reset" might become "Reset to previous settings" - but that might simply be 
the "Cancel" button.


The menu entry Help -> List Hotkeys seems redundant to Preferences -> Hotkey 
Options -> Edit Hotkeys.
One of the dialogs might be removed.
In the latest-git, the Hotkey '?' doesn't work for me. I get a beep, when I am 
lucky... usually it is just ignored.

In Eeschema, the Help -> List Hotkeys doesn't show the '?'
There the Hotkey-Editor can be reached via Preferences -> General Options -> 
Controls Tab...

GUI consistency would improve UX a lot. These are IMO the low-hanging fruits to 
attract users to use Kicad.

Regards,

Clemens

On 2018-01-11 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:

I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor that is 
a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.

I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor opens with a tree view 
that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users would be forgiven for not 
realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific to each application -- see 
current_hotkeys.png

Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more clear 
-- see prev_hotkeys.png.

I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on whether folks are adverse to 
reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the "Reset" and "Defaults" 
buttons, that I think are really good additions.

-S


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Jeff Young]

I agree that the tabs were better.

And I agree that the Defaults button is a good addition.

I don’t agree about the Reset button.  Too much visual complexity when the user 
can just hit Cancel and then Edit Hotkeys again to achieve the same effect.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 11 Jan 2018, at 01:07, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
> 
> I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor that 
> is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
> 
> I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor opens with 
> a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users would be forgiven 
> for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific to each 
> application -- see current_hotkeys.png
> 
> Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more clear 
> -- see prev_hotkeys.png.
> 
> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on whether 
> folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while keeping the 
> "Reset" and "Defaults" buttons, that I think are really good additions.
> 
> -S
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Thomas Kindler]

On Thu, January 11, 2018 09:37, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
> I wonder if "Undo All" is more appropriate if all the changes during that
>  session are undone, as opposed to just the last one.
>

That's very similar to "Cancel" then. Perhaps, we can remove the Undo
button entirely in this case.


> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 12:35 AM, Thomas Kindler
> 
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On Thu, January 11, 2018 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>>
>>> I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys
>>> editor that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
>>>
>>> I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor
>>> opens with a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users
>>> would be forgiven for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys
>>> specific to each application -- see current_hotkeys.png
>>>
>>> Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think,
>>> more clear -- see prev_hotkeys.png.
>>>
>>> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
>>>  whether folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout
>>> while keeping the "Reset" and "Defaults" buttons, that I think are
>>> really good additions.
>>
>> What's the difference between "Reset" and "Defaults"?
>>
>>
>> I think "Undo" and "Defaults" would be much better.
>>

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

I wonder if "Undo All" is more appropriate if all the changes during that
session are undone, as opposed to just the last one.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 12:35 AM, Thomas Kindler 
wrote:

>
> On Thu, January 11, 2018 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> > I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor
> > that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
> >
> > I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor opens
> > with a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users would be
> > forgiven for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific to
> >  each application -- see current_hotkeys.png
> >
> > Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more
> > clear -- see prev_hotkeys.png.
> >
> > I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
> > whether folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while
> > keeping the "Reset" and "Defaults" buttons, that I think are really good
> > additions.
>
> What's the difference between "Reset" and "Defaults"?
>
> I think "Undo" and "Defaults" would be much better.
>
> --
> Thomas Kindler 
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Hotkeys Editor

[Thomas Kindler]

On Thu, January 11, 2018 02:07, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> I feel that there is a usability issue with the current hotkeys editor
> that is a regression from the 4.0.7 hotkeys editor.
>
> I've attached images for both to this message.  The current editor opens
> with a tree view that hides the hotkeys below "Common".  Users would be
> forgiven for not realizing that there were additional hotkeys specific to
>  each application -- see current_hotkeys.png
>
> Previously, the hotkeys were displayed in tabs that were, I think, more
> clear -- see prev_hotkeys.png.
>
> I don't recall when this change happened but I'd like any feedback on
> whether folks are adverse to reverting to the 4.0.7 tabbed layout while
> keeping the "Reset" and "Defaults" buttons, that I think are really good
> additions.

What's the difference between "Reset" and "Defaults"?

I think "Undo" and "Defaults" would be much better.

-- 
Thomas Kindler 

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