KR> Flap and belly board combination.
in my experience the kr flaps realy do something ===no doubt about it about 3 knots .. i am just looking at v g s ..possibly increasing wingspan a bit ==look at diehl wingskins phill From: Peter Diffey To: KRnet Sent: Wed, August 3, 2011 10:16:56 PM Subject: Re: KR> Flap and belly board combination. Hi, I am no expert, but as far as I can figure, a belly board will increase drag but will not increase lift, so will not allow a lower landing speed. The belly board drag will allow a steaper approach, it will also help you bleed off speed during the roll out. Whether the kr2 flaps have any significant effect on stall speed is a moot point, I doubt if anybody has done any design analysis. Looking at the flaps on my std kr2 I doubt if they do much to stall speed. The easiest way to keep down the safe landing speed is to build light - I thought hemlock was a sort of poison :) Pete -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Rodger Nicolls wrote: Phil and Larry, Thank you for the replies. I am looking at dropping the stall/landing speed, increasing the visibility, and contending with a heavier empty weight (using hemlock, 10% heavier than spruce, with extended fuselage). I have moved the controls in front of the rear spar and plan to use the entire area behind the spar for the flaps. On anther note: I completed building my gear legs: 50 layers S-glass-BID and 38 layers S-glass-UNI, with a total compressed/cured thickness of .80". Now I just need to get the mount welded. If anyone is interested in the story (with pictures) of an experimental Cub being destroyed by a calving glacier, let me know and I'll forward those to you. It's a shame that after spending all that time on a lovely project to see it lost in a matter of seconds. I will continue to build. Thanks, Rodger _ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Flap and belly board combination.
I agree that they do help slow up. They do alter the attitude which would indicate that there is something happening to the lift/drag ratio but I am not sure I would bet my privet hedge on the effect on stall speed :( I have wimped out of actually doing a full flap stall test. In my experience landing distance is effected much more by weight. I can land happily in 400 yd on low tank, but with a full tank I just cannot get a good approach angle (even with full flap) and need up to 700 yds. Of course this is a cg issue but any increase in weight needs more lift leading to increased angle of attach for a given speed which takes us close to the situation where the aot to take off is very close to the stall aot. This all does my head in, so I would go with the old kiss mantra - light and simple. Pete -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. phil brookman wrote: in my experience the kr flaps realy do something ===no doubt about it about 3 knots .. i am just looking at v g s ..possibly increasing wingspan a bit ==look at diehl wingskins phill _ From: Peter Diffey To: KRnet Sent: Wed, August 3, 2011 10:16:56 PM Subject: Re: KR> Flap and belly board combination. Hi, I am no expert, but as far as I can figure, a belly board will increase drag but will not increase lift, so will not allow a lower landing speed. The belly board drag will allow a steaper approach, it will also help you bleed off speed during the roll out. Whether the kr2 flaps have any significant effect on stall speed is a moot point, I doubt if anybody has done any design analysis. Looking at the flaps on my std kr2 I doubt if they do much to stall speed. The easiest way to keep down the safe landing speed is to build light - I thought hemlock was a sort of poison :) Pete -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Rodger Nicolls wrote: Phil and Larry, Thank you for the replies. I am looking at dropping the stall/landing speed, increasing the visibility, and contending with a heavier empty weight (using hemlock, 10% heavier than spruce, with extended fuselage). I have moved the controls in front of the rear spar and plan to use the entire area behind the spar for the flaps. On anther note: I completed building my gear legs: 50 layers S-glass-BID and 38 layers S-glass-UNI, with a total compressed/cured thickness of .80". Now I just need to get the mount welded. If anyone is interested in the story (with pictures) of an experimental Cub being destroyed by a calving glacier, let me know and I'll forward those to you. It's a shame that after spending all that time on a lovely project to see it lost in a matter of seconds. I will continue to build. Thanks, Rodger _ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Flap and belly board combination.
Roger Our eastern Hemlock is close to the specific gravity (weight) of Sitka Spruce. The western hemlocks are about 8-10 percent heavier. We use the hemlock here in Vermont for barn construction. The disadvantages of hemlock might be 1- the lower elastic strenght, about 25% lower which means the wood will split instead of flex. 2- It doesn't laminate (take to glue)as readily as Spruce and 3-the diffuculty in finding nice straight grained stock which can lead to twisting, distorting etc. before the pieces are locked in. As an example, cut 2 pieces of Hemlock 5/8"thick x 2" wide x 4'Long. Let them sit about the shop for 2 weeks and you will find that they are no longer equally straight. That is not good if they are stabilizer or wing spars. Having said this, hemlock will work, it will not dry rot as readily as spruce. I did make a gear spring as you describe, 55 layers in all of Bid and uni, came out to 7/8" thick and weighed in 20% heavier than the cessna spring I was copying and was not as stiff. I was surprised. Perhaps I used too much resin. I also put it on a press to see how easily I could break it. It did split along the layers...but not fatally Pat R - Original Message - From: "Rodger Nicolls" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:05 PM Subject: Re: KR> Flap and belly board combination. > Phil and Larry, > Thank you for the replies. I am looking at dropping the stall/landing > speed, > increasing the visibility, and contending with a heavier empty weight > (using > hemlock, 10% heavier than spruce, with extended fuselage). I have moved > the > controls in front of the rear spar and plan to use the entire area behind > the spar for the flaps. > On anther note: I completed building my gear legs: 50 layers S-glass-BID > and > 38 layers S-glass-UNI, with a total compressed/cured thickness of .80". > Now > I just need to get the mount welded. > >
KR> Flap and belly board combination.
KR Heads, Regarding the "postage stamp" size flaps on the KR2S, I built them in and I would disagree. They are useful in lowering the stall speed by maybe 5 mph in stall tests I have done at altitude. Glad I made the effort to build them. They also are a big help to forward visibility when landing ( nose down view). I wish I had also installed the belly board to reduce the floating down the runway syndrome in ground effect. Cheers Chris G KR2S 250 hours -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Peter Diffey Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 5:17 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Flap and belly board combination. Hi, I am no expert, but as far as I can figure, a belly board will increase drag but will not increase lift, so will not allow a lower landing speed. The belly board drag will allow a steaper approach, it will also help you bleed off speed during the roll out. Whether the kr2 flaps have any significant effect on stall speed is a moot point, I doubt if anybody has done any design analysis. Looking at the flaps on my std kr2 I doubt if they do much to stall speed. The easiest way to keep down the safe landing speed is to build light - I thought hemlock was a sort of poison :) Pete -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Rodger Nicolls wrote: Phil and Larry, Thank you for the replies. I am looking at dropping the stall/landing speed, increasing the visibility, and contending with a heavier empty weight (using hemlock, 10% heavier than spruce, with extended fuselage). I have moved the controls in front of the rear spar and plan to use the entire area behind the spar for the flaps. On anther note: I completed building my gear legs: 50 layers S-glass-BID and 38 layers S-glass-UNI, with a total compressed/cured thickness of .80". Now I just need to get the mount welded. If anyone is interested in the story (with pictures) of an experimental Cub being destroyed by a calving glacier, let me know and I'll forward those to you. It's a shame that after spending all that time on a lovely project to see it lost in a matter of seconds. I will continue to build. Thanks, Rodger _ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Static Test Results
OK, I've been silent, busily working away, and today I managed to get some repeatable numbers. I would appreciate "health" checks from any/all of you!!! Engine: Revmaster 2100D OAT: 81 F. Humidity: 63% Elevation: 920' Engine Run Duration: 20 Minutes Cowl Flap Open Ram air closed RPM 1700 Peak Temperatures Noted: OIL: 210 CHT: 400 EGT: 1025 (These figures were obtained with the mixture leaned.) Mixture full rich: OIL: 200 CHT: 350 EGT: 950 Thanks for any thoughts! Best Regards, Dave.
KR> Fuel System
I am still undecided about the fuel pump after struggling with it for a year. It is the Facet that has been recommended by several people. When first installed, I noted that it would nearly flood the engine and that an immediate leaning of the mixture was required whenever it was turned on. I solved this one by installing a 5/32" bypass line from the pump outlet back to the header tank. Mixture adjustments from pump on to pump off are now minimal. With the pump off, I can cause the engine to stall at higher RPM by setting full rich and waiting. It seems the free-flow (gravity only) rate through the pump is just barely adequate and eventually the gascolator empties and the engine stalls. I can always remedy this by turning the pump on for a couple of seconds, so I am convinced it is a fuel starvation situation. I installed a "T" before and after the pump, and made another bypass, 5/16" diameter with a one-way valve. With the pump off, the theory is that fuel will flow from the header tank through the one-way valve and out to the engine. This effectively creates two flow paths from the tank to the engine. Even with this, I heard the engine stutter a little after about 15 minutes with no pump. Again, just bumping the pump for a couple of seconds cleared the situation. I am very close to reverting to gravity only feed, and am interested in who runs gravity only, and what, if any, obstacles they had to overcome. My main concern has been vapor lock, and the pump is very effective at clearing situations like this. However, getting adequate fuel flow when the pump isn't running has developed into a real challenge. If I keep the pump, my preference is that it NOT be used for normal operations. What have you that use gravity only encountered in your low fuel situations, climbs, etc.? The entire fuel system has been cleaned and cleaned again, new filters, everything. So it appears that I'm fighting purely a flow situation when the pump isn't running, and not some unknown restriction or blockage. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave.
KR> Fuel System
When first installed, I noted that it would nearly flood the engine and that an immediate leaning of the mixture was required whenever it was turned on. I solved this one by installing a 5/32" bypass line from the pump outlet back to the header tank. Mixture adjustments from pump on to pump off are now minimal. - Facet come in all different PSI pressures. My carb ONLY needs 3psi. So find out what you need and buy a inline pressure reduction, or but the correct pressure pump. I have a great unit one on my KR but I am away at the moment and can not remember the name. Phil Matheson Australia.
KR> wing tip slop
Martin I'm in melb for a few days. How are you. Any more news on the Damage, Can it be fixed. Phil Matheson
KR> hello kr
On 8/2/2011 11:33 PM, joseph lamberson wrote: > hey kr check it out http://nbcllnews.com/?article=924381 > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > Not another one, Virg
KR> Diehl Gear for sale.
bob, I am interested, Contact me on my email. joemals...@charter.net joe. On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:25 PM, badbob0...@embarqmail.com wrote: > I have the tricycle Diehl landing gear AND Tracy O?Brian C-90 brakes, > Cessna style axles, TriStar 5? wheels (3) and Shen tires. These are > all in new condition. The current retail for these is in excess of > $2000.00. I would entertain offers in the $1600.00 range OBO. > > Bob Johnson > Willamina, OR > (971) 645-9491 > https://picasaweb.google.com/103552664644911775549/KR2SSW > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Flap and belly board combination.
Pete Diffey wrote: >Looking at the flaps on my std kr2 I doubt if they do much to stall speed. >Whether the kr2 flaps have any significant effect on stall speed is a moot >point, I doubt if anybody has done any design analysis.< You mean you have flaps installed on your plane and have never done a stall speed test with them retracted and also with them deployed? You have the perfect test device at your disposal, yet haven't actually tested it? Then you have very little useful data to contribute on the issue, I'd say. Analysis and conjecture is one thing, but real-world testing tells the story... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com
