KR> Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 353, Issue 235

[laser...@juno.com]

> and would like to share the expense of a room.

Hardly necessary.

I have found very nice motel rooms near the freeway in Mt. Vernon for
$32/night.Clean as a whistle and free coffee in the morning.  Several
to choose from, no reservations necessary.  

Mike
KSEE

Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
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KR> hotel room at gathering

[kr2coo...@comcast.net]

Has anyone booked a room and would like someone to share the room and expenses. 
I plan to be there on thursday and leave on Sunday and would like to share the 
expense of a room. If you would like to share a room and have not booked it yet 
let me know and I'll book one. 

Jack Cooper 

Chuckey TN. 

KR> Roy Clarks airplane

[Craig Williams]

Not a KR but still worth a ticket for a good cause.

http://wingsofhoperaffle.org/index.html

KR> Jabaru vs corvair torque

[Patrick Driscoll]

Somewhere I found a set of plans and how to for making a torque measuring 
device using a VW wheel as the back of the motor mount and a 6',  2"x4" 
placed on a scale so that as the engine turned up the RPM's you could read 
the torque in foot pounds at any RPM and the guy used a 2"x4" for a prop so 
I don't think the prop has a lot to do with the torque. I have the drawings 
somewhere and if I can find them I'll give them to Mark L. to post on his 
site.  I haven't tried to find them on the internet because I've had these 
plans since the early 80's

Patrick Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patric...@usfamily.net
www.pensbypat.com
If you can read this, Thank a teacher
If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran

KR> Bill Marcy...firewall strength

[Mark Langford]

Bill Marcy is from Denver...says so right on my KR History page at 
http://www.n56ml.com/khistory.html .  I'll bet if you call the folks at 
http://kiddiehawk.org/ you'll either find him or his whereabouts.  He's 
already analyzed the firewall structure.  If somebody finds it and will send 
it to me, I'll post the analysis on KRnet.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Jabaru engine failures

[MICHAEL SYLVESTER]

I contacted a local KR builder / flyer to see if he was going to make it to the 
Gathering this year only to find out that he was having cylinder trouble and 
waiting on parts for his Jabiru 3300. That's all I know, I did not ask what 
caused the problem. Looking forward to seeing everyone at the Gathering.

Mike Sylvester 
kr2s builder 
Birmingham,AL.

Cell no.205-966-3854



> From: v...@xtra.co.nz
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: Re: KR> Jabaru engine failures
> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:17:44 +1200
> 
> Has no one elswhere in the world had any Jabiru engine failures? Down under 
> where possibly the majority are, Jabaru's are almost snigger material as far 
> as reliabity goes. When they are well they are very well but when unwell 
> they seem terrible !. Any comments.
> Vaughan Thomas Hamilton New Zealand
> - 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

Bill Marcy

See kiddiehawk.org
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Mark Langford  wrote:

There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or 
somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson 
in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to 
was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that 
would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing 
up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2). Take a look at the 
archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy" 
and you may turn up his address. RR should have his analysis that reports 
this info though. I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have 
it somewhere. There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann where he 
says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross 
weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him. I'm betting RR knows 
how to get in touch with him as well.

I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, 
with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in 
the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my 
first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published 
weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in 
mind when my 245 sounds heavy.

It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and 
firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's why 
it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path 
from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes 
a long way to strengthening that setup.

As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a 
different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now. You can sift through 
the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about 
anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the 
implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of other details at 
http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
_



_

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KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Barry Kruyssen]

Hi Mark

>From Jabiru http://www.jabiru.net.au/ 
83.5 kg (178 lbs) complete including exhaust, carburettor, starter motor,
alternator and ignition system
Only thing missing is the 3.5 ltr of oil and the air box.

It's hard to beat the Jabiru weight, the price helps lighten your wallet as
well (double the weight saving)

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/ 


-Original Message-
I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, 
with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in 
the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my 
first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published

weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in 
mind when my 245 sounds heavy.


Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Mark Langford]

There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or 
somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson 
in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to 
was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that 
would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing 
up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2).  Take a look at the 
archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy" 
and you may turn up his address.  RR should have his analysis that reports 
this info though.  I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have 
it somewhere.  There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann  where he 
says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross 
weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him.  I'm betting RR knows 
how to get in touch with him as well.

I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, 
with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in 
the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my 
first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published 
weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in 
mind when my 245 sounds heavy.

It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and 
firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air.  That's why 
it's more a weight issue than a power issue.  Just improving the load path 
from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes 
a long way to strengthening that setup.

As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a 
different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now.  You can sift through 
the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about 
anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the 
implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of  other details at 
http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Jabaru vs corvair torque

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

Its pounds feet.

Here's my understanding of it.

If you imagine a 2ft diam pulley attached to your engine,with a 110lb weight 
hung on a rope wound around the pulley, then the engine will lift the weight at 
the rated max torque rpm.

Example. If an engine is rated are 110 lbft at 2500revs
2 x pi x 2500 revs approx 15500 ft/min.

The engine will not be able to lift 120lb so fast, the engine torque graph will 
show how fast the engine can turn.

One horse power lifts 110 lb at 5 ft/sec = 300 ft/min so engine power would be 
15500/300. = 51 hp at 2500.

Max torque is always generated at less than max pwr as friction increases at a 
rate greater that engine speed increases.

So I sort of guess that best rate of climb is achieved at Max torque revs.

Pete




-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Glenn Martin  wrote:

On 8/28/2011 3:11 PM, Dan Heath wrote:
> Glenn,
>
> The 2180 VW is said to produce 76HP at 3600 RPM, so, it would produce 110.88
> "whatever torques are". This is without respect to prop.
>
Torque is in inch-lbs per foot

-- 
Glenn Martin

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KR> Jabaru engine failures

[Vaughan Thomas]

Has no one elswhere in the world had any Jabiru engine failures?  Down under 
where possibly the majority are, Jabaru's are almost snigger material as far 
as reliabity goes.  When they are well they are very well but when unwell 
they seem terrible !.   Any comments.
Vaughan Thomas Hamilton New Zealand
- Original Message - 
From: "Glenn Martin" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabaru vs corvair torque


On 8/28/2011 3:11 PM, Dan Heath wrote:
> Glenn,
>
> The 2180 VW is said to produce 76HP at 3600 RPM, so, it would produce 
> 110.88
> "whatever torques are".  This is without respect to prop.
>
Torque is in inch-lbs per foot

-- 
Glenn Martin

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3863 - Release Date: 08/28/11 
06:34:00

KR> Jabaru vs corvair torque

[Glenn Martin]

On 8/28/2011 3:11 PM, Dan Heath wrote:
> Glenn,
>
> The 2180 VW is said to produce 76HP at 3600 RPM, so, it would produce 110.88
> "whatever torques are".  This is without respect to prop.
>
Torque is in inch-lbs per foot

-- 
Glenn Martin

KR> Jabaru vs corvair torque

[Dan Heath]

Glenn,

The 2180 VW is said to produce 76HP at 3600 RPM, so, it would produce 110.88
"whatever torques are".  This is without respect to prop.

Does anyone know what the rated HP at RPM, is of the Corvair?

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-

Of course, that's assuming 
the same prop on both. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
-- 

KR> Jabaru vs corvair torque

[Glenn Martin]

On 8/28/2011 12:41 PM, Peter Drake wrote:
> So has anyone out there got any numbers that will back up the case for 
> using
> a 120hp engine on a KR2S?
>
> I am mainly looking for any data on torque stress on the airframe.
>

  The formula for HP is Torque x RPM/5252. By substitution that makes 
Torque = HP * 5252/RPM. It doesn't seem to mention brand name of the 
engine, so you should be able to compare the torque of the Jabaru to the 
torque of the Corviar engine directly, unless the Jab is a GEARED PSRU, 
in which case you take can that into account. Of course, that's assuming 
the same prop on both. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
-- 
Glenn Martin,
KR2 N1333A,
Biloxi, MS

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Glenn Martin]

On 8/28/2011 12:41 PM, Peter Drake wrote:
> So has anyone out there got any numbers that will back up the case for using
> a 120hp engine on a KR2S?
>
> I am mainly looking for any data on torque stress on the airframe.
>

  The formula for HP is Torque x RPM/5252. By substitution that makes 
Torque = HP * 5252/RPM. It doesn't seem to mention brand name of the 
engine, so you should be able to compare the torque of the Jabaru to the 
torque of the Corviar engine directly, unless the Jab is a GEARED PSRU, 
in which case you take can that into account. Of course, that's assuming 
the same prop on both. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
-- 
Glenn Martin,
KR2 N1333A,
Biloxi, MS

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Peter Drake]

Hi All

Thanks for all your suggestions.
We have come to the conclusion that the only way to get this one through is 
with raw data.
Engineers like numbers and no amount of hearsay evidence is likely to sway 
them.

So has anyone out there got any numbers that will back up the case for using 
a 120hp engine on a KR2S?

I am mainly looking for any data on torque stress on the airframe.

Thanks

Peter
Hereford UK

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK



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KR> Registration-Name tags

[hart...@charter.net]

Please be sure to pre-register within the next  two days..that 
is...if you want to proudly wear a personalized name tag at the 
gathering.  I will be making tags using the names that are registered by 
Aug 30.  Hoping to see you at MVN!!!
Rich Hartwig
Waunakee WI

KR> my co pilot

[Craig Williams]

My wife goes for her first lesson today.  Few years before either of us will 
work the stick on the KR2 but I am hoping she keeps with it and gets her 
license so I have a co pilot. 

Craig
www.kr2seafury.com 

KR> plywood question

[Allen Wiesner]

The basic floor is 3/32" Birch or Mahogany with a 1/4" Birch layer on top from 
the firewall to the back side of the "B" stringer.  The plans call for it to 
stop dead there but I gave it a 30 degree taper to blend it into the basic 
floor, which I made from Birch (but I'm a big guy :-) ).  Both shelves are also 
1/4" Birch, as is the firewall and the triangular stiffeners on the inside at 
"D", which also are 3/32" Birch.  The aft shelf is called out as 3/32" ply, 
type 
your choice, but there is a non-Rand safety revision recommending a 1/4" Birch 
addition for the shoulder harness attach points.  I made my shelf from Birch, 
running from the top of the seat back stringer to the back side of "J" and  
longeron to longeron and added the 1/4" underneath stringers/longerons, running 
from the seat back to the "I" stringer; but thinking back on it, it should be 
from "I" to "J" to give a better angle to the shoulder harness attach points.  
See ML's website for an alternate attach point for the shoulder harnesses, in 
which case you wouldn't need the 1/4" piece.  


 Allen G. Wiesner  KR-2SS S/N 1118  T/D / CorvAIR
65 Franklin Street
Ansonia, CT  06401-1240


203-732-0508


"It ain't over until the fat lady sings".





From: "bdazzca...@aol.com" 
To: kr...@mylist.net
Sent: Sun, August 28, 2011 3:05:12 AM
Subject: Re: KR> plywood question

nose section floor by the firewall, shelf, seatbelt attachment area 
firewall itself.

David


In a message dated 8/27/2011 2:52:33 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
da...@windstream.net writes:

The nose  section?  What do you mean by nose section?  If you are  referring
to the leading edge of the wing, you don't put plywood on the  leading edge
of the wing on a "plans built" KR.

Come to the  gathering and find out all you ever wanted to know about
building a KR, and  probably stuff you don't know that you want to know.

See N64KR at  http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 -  KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it  never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington,  SC


-Original Message-
I forgot what kind of plywood we  use around the  nose section?  


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KR> plywood question

[Larry Flesner]

At 02:05 AM 8/28/2011, you wrote:
>I forgot what kind of plywood we  use around the  nose section?
nose section floor by the firewall, shelf, seatbelt attachment area
firewall itself.
David
+

That information should be in the plans and/ or drawings.  It is a 
mix of 3/32 and 1/4 inch ply.

Larry Flesner

KR> plywood question

[Dan Heath]

My firewall is 1/4" aircraft grade plywood.  Not sure what the other pieces
you mentioned are.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-

nose section floor by the firewall, shelf, seatbelt attachment area 
 firewall itself.

KR> plywood question

[bdazzca...@aol.com]

nose section floor by the firewall, shelf, seatbelt attachment area 
 firewall itself.

David


In a message dated 8/27/2011 2:52:33 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
da...@windstream.net writes:

The nose  section?  What do you mean by nose section?  If you are  referring
to the leading edge of the wing, you don't put plywood on the  leading edge
of the wing on a "plans built" KR.

Come to the  gathering and find out all you ever wanted to know about
building a KR, and  probably stuff you don't know that you want to know.

See N64KR at  http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 -  KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it  never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington,  SC


-Original Message-
I forgot what kind of plywood we  use around the  nose section?  


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