KR> Sanding Blocks

[Wayne Tokarz via KRnet]

I also build R/C planes and the hobby shops sell sandpaper on the roll for 
about 5 -7$ It has a sticky back and you can stick it to almost anything, angle 
iron/aluminum, edge of 2 X 4, etc. worked great for me.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of ppaulvsk at 
aol.com via KRnet
Sent: May-16-14 8:07 AM
To: via KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Sanding Blocks

That's a good idea and its cheaper than the floor sander paper. 

Paul Visk
Bellev

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

- Reply message -
From: "via KRnet" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Fri, May 16, 2014 7:21 am
Subject: KR> Sanding Blocks
To: "Adam Tippin" , "KRnet" 

Another suggestion that I used is the stuff they sell to keep you from slipping 
- comes rough and has a sticky back. 
Paul N7970K
- Original Message -

From: "Adam Tippin via KRnet" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 10:38:47 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Sanding Blocks 

Little late but just found your email in spam folder. 
Rap the sand paper around three sides and staple the two sides that you don't 
intend to use. 
On Apr 26, 2014 7:01 PM,  wrote: 

> 
> Any suggestions on sanding blocks. I made a 4ft board for my 
> horizontal stabilizer out of a straight 2x4. I'm having problems 
> keeping the sandpaper on
>  the board. I used contact cement and that's not seem to hold and when 
> the edges  peal up it digs into the foam. I'm at the start of a lot of 
> sanding and I figure  there's a LOT of experience out there with 
> sanding.  I could definitely use  some suggestions.
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Paul  Visk 
> Belleville Il. 
> 618-406-4705 
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> 
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KR> the value of a punchlist

[Wayne Tokarz via KRnet]

As my kids would say,(text?), ROFLMAO,   I too have  a Piet Oscar, love it,
one of my favorites, er next to the KR that is. I have started a similar
list for my KR build as well as my BD-5 build. Great idea all around.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford
via KRnet
Sent: May-14-14 3:13 PM
To: Oscar Zuniga; KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> the value of a punchlist

OZ wrote:

>> I keep a similar list going on my Piet and other projects.  However, 
>> on the Piet I also have a column on the side where I can indicate 
>> that an item on the list is essential to safety of flight.  You would 
>> be surprised how many items are not, and at some point when you run 
>> down that list you'll realize "there's nothing really keeping me from 
>> flying the plane".<<

I do give it that test every night, and the biggie for me is the flap
installation.  I just got the proper bolts and pins to install it last
night, and won't get the last key part, a new brush pack for the motor,
until Thursday.  Like Larry, landing it without some kind of deployable drag
makes me very uncomfortable on my short and narrow runway.  Of course I
should probably just learn to land slower...


Warning:  This response may contain information that is unsuitable for
overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humor, or
irrational beliefs.  The above was intended to be helpful, rather than
hurtful. Any perceived insults, innuendo, insinuations, belittlement,
offended sensibilities, or questioning of manhood, were purely
unintentional. Any impression that I may think you're dumber than dirt is in
your head, not mine...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 


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KR> min hp

[Wayne Tokarz]

More importantly, it's a Hirth put it in a snowmobile or something,
don't fly behind.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Boyd
Sent: April-07-14 5:26 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> min hp

Hey guys, what is the minimum horse power for the standard KR2S?
Would a 55hp Hirth work ok?
Bob in Frazeysburg Oh
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KR> Different materials

[Wayne Tokarz]

WOW, some serious mileage on the topic! I have de-bonded and re-bonded the
wing skins on a Grumman Cheetah,  very cool system very similar to hot melt
glue, Aluminum bonding is not black magic, and can be easily learned like
any other process, ( wet lay-up on foam?:)LOL ), it all comes down to
comfort level. I think it is a bad idea for anyone with low
experience/confidence/background, to be re-inventing the wheel. I think it
is great to experiment as many of us do with this great sport, but it should
always be undertaken with a modicum of knowledge of what we are attempting
to do. As said in one of my past posts, I once ran across a stock KR2 that
was all wood, the old guy did an amazing job and it looked perfectly
functional. I will note that the wings were perceived as being heavier than
others I had run across. I think in a situation like this it is best to pick
a design one is comfortable with and go for it. 
  Gary Morgan sure has some neat little planes, did he not once own a KR and
was it not a feature photo on the group site? Red Trim?  Plywood over foam
will yield an identical bond to fiberglass over foam, your peel point will
be the underlying foam in both cases. I would imagine the same would hold
true for most any substrate over foam, the foam itself is the weakest link
and more than adequate for the application as proven over years of KR flying
and abuse.

Just mho

Wayne





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KR> Cockpit EFB's

[Wayne Tokarz]

Just downloaded Fltplan during lunch break. H seems pretty good. Lots of
info, easy to load and seams fairly user friendly, I will be playing with it
over the next couple days and see how it goes.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of
laser147 at juno.com
Sent: February-24-14 11:35 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> Cockpit EFB's

In January Fltplan.com released a new and free (supported by ads) flight
planning, navigation & aeronautical info app for IOS that, from current
raves on AOPA's "Flight Bag" forum, already rivals 

KR> iPad vs. Android tablet for aviation

[Wayne Tokarz]

One thing I did notice is that not all software has Canadian maps eh. A
small problem for those of us on this side of the border. Anyone have a
recommendation on which is best for use in Canada? ADSB is of no use either
as we don't have that system here in Canada. So far I only notice Fore
Flight mentioning Canadian content.

Wayne

KR> rotax

[Wayne Tokarz]

Very Nice! Eduardo. The plane seems to perform quite well, I did note that
this particular KR appears to be built very light. Argentinians take
building airplanes very seriously judging by the photos. Some very nice
craftsmanship can be seen in many of the planes one can see.

Wayne 

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo
Barros
Sent: February-19-14 1:54 PM
To: samantha toner; KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> rotax

In argentina fly a Kr 2s with Rotax 582, 65 HP, is Pupato?s KR

KR> rotax

[Wayne Tokarz]

The plane as it sits suffers from C of G issues as is. A light weight two
stroke would make for a very long nose, the design just does not support
this type of power plant. With many years behind two strokes and having
owned a KR, I don't think, correction, I KNOW I would not fly a KR behind
one. Just my humble opinion.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of samantha
toner
Sent: February-19-14 6:18 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> rotax

Hi all has anyone considered using a 2 stroke rotax in a kr ? Pulsars fly
well of them any thoughts? Mark
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KR> Fuel Tanks.

[Wayne Tokarz]

Let's put this one to rest, In all the world of motor sports and vehicles,
only ONE plastic is used to make fuel tanks and gas cans, polyethylene,
period. Without any technical backing to this, other than a life time of
observation, and owning an assortment of vehicles. I only know of 3
materials used to contain fuel in the aviation world, (must be a reason for
it), metal, (either aluminum or steel), rubber, (bladders), vinyl-ester
resins in composite tanks. Pretty sure I'll get corrected on this one! LOL.
There is only so much we can do to our little planes, but with fuel problems
being the no.1 cause of small plane crashes and home builts in particular, I
sure as heck would not want to be statistic, so I would be very conservative
in my fuel system/tank design.

Rant of the day, LOL
Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of jon kimmel
Sent: February-18-14 10:54 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks.

I recently questioned why there was a difference between pvc pipe and pvc
fence posts...i looked at a site called weatherables.comtheir vinyl
fence posts are definitely pvc.  I e-mailed them and asked why there might
be a difference and they didn't know.  I thought that the difference might
be in the manufacturing process...maybe there's more porosity in the pipe.

https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/
https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/parts-for-sale
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KR> Fuel Tanks.

[Wayne Tokarz]

I really like this idea!

Wayne

How about using a larger tube such as a 12 inch and compress it to fit the
airfoil design. 
Mike Sylvester

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KR> New wing skin idea or not so new....

[Wayne Tokarz]

Hi Gary, Many years ago a friend of mine acquired,(in a trade), a "stock" KR
with trike gear and wood wings and turtle decks, even the canopy frame was
wood. As I recall the builder, (completely unknown to me), used about a
3/32" or 3mm birch plywood, over wood ribs, bulkheads, stringers, etc. He
was quite the craftsman. I lost track of it and even tried to find it again
years later, but never did. I recall we did a weight and balance on it and
I'm pretty sure it was fairly good for weight. No reason why it would not
work and be perfectly fine. Lots of work to get all the ribs just right.

Wayne

After looking in the archive, I didn't find results for wood wings.  Has
there been discussion about wood wings similar to that of GP4 or Tailwind?
Has anyone done this?

Gary
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KR> New wing skin idea

[Wayne Tokarz]

Awesome! Cheater! You have access to a CNC hot wire cutter! LOL. Very cool,
I did mine the old fashioned way, it was OK but yours are far superior. The
coremat is an excellent choice. I think you may be on the right track.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dene
Sent: February-14-14 9:14 AM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> New wing skin idea

Hi Wayne
I appreciate your good advice and wisdom, however, I have experience with
polystyrene foam in a KR wing being dissolved in flight and it is not good
for the heart!
I personally know a cozy builder that has had his tank spring a leak and had
to replace a lot of foam in the wing, a very delicate operation.
I build Whisper motor gliders for a living and their wings are 8m long each.
The cores are cut on a CNC hotwire cutter in 1m segments with the washout
already set. We join them with micro on a perfectly level table around the
spar and glass over one side at a time.
I have no worries about compromising the tortional strength of the wing as
the tank will be bonded to the inside of the wing skins. This will offer
much more ridgidity that the traditional methods. The bond between the
different pieces is not a concern for me, if it is dome properly the bond
will be at least as strong as if it was one piece. I plan on using 2mm or
3mm coremat as the core material

Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Builders of award winning aircraft
tel:27419560048
cell: 27845805003
Port Elizabeth
South Africa


-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Tokarz
Sent: 14 February, 2014 5:58 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> New wing skin idea

I think you will be compromising the torsional rigidity of the wings with
three pieces and relying on a bonded joint, ( I could be wrong here


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KR> New wing skin idea

[Wayne Tokarz]

  Just remembered this one, did it years ago on a special project. Use any
core you wish for front and back half of wing, and last a foam in the center
area. Cover the spars with a releasable covering, (please don't laugh, but
duct tape works really well for this!), lay up the whole wing as per normal.
Cut the leading edge and slice the trailing edge, remove only the top or
bottom half. Do your backside layups on the two skins and bond it all
together. This is just the basic idea, I'm very sure you are more than
capable working out the details, ( gas cap, lines, baffles, etc.).

Just my humble two cents worth.
Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dene
Sent: February-13-14 10:48 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: KR> New wing skin idea

Hi guys
It is my plan to put full length wing tanks inside my wings between the
spars but because it is common practice here to use polystyrene for a core
and we all know what happens to poly foam when it even smells fuel, I have
been trying to come up with a way to get rid of foam all together without
having to produce a set of molds. I think I have a plan.

The cores are hot-wired from foam blocks as usual but the core that we would
normally use is discarded. The "female" form, which is cut with the washout
already set in it laid out on a flat table. A thin sheet of mylar or similar
is cut to the required dimensions and laid inside the foam form. Glass is
then laid up on that with a core material.
The skins can be made in three pieces: D box, centre section and trailing
edge, all with "overlap" for bonding over the spars.
All these can be bonded together over the spars.
This method, if done carefully and accurately should produce a pretty fair
wing skin that is strong, light and need very little fairing. Final washout
can still be tweaked at final bonding.

Any thoughts?

Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Builders of award winning aircraft
tel:27419560048
cell: 27845805003
Port Elizabeth
South Africa





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KR> New wing skin idea

[Wayne Tokarz]

I think you will be compromising the torsional rigidity of the wings with
three pieces and relying on a bonded joint, ( I could be wrong here). There
are lots of fuel resistant core materials available with which to do this.
Would it not be faster, cheaper and easier, (consideration given to your
location), to do a more conventional lay-up with a different core material.
All the long-ezes and cozy types have been doing it for years. I've done
lots of hot wiring in the past, there is a physical limitation of 5' that
you can hot wire a profile. I have worked on quickies, dragonflies and
long-ezes. We cut the cores in sections and then "VERY CAREFULLY" assemble
them to form the main core. The KR wing is too long to wire cut without a
lot of wire drag that will dish your wing shape. 

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dene
Sent: February-13-14 10:48 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: KR> New wing skin idea

Hi guys
It is my plan to put full length wing tanks inside my wings between the
spars but because it is common practice here to use polystyrene for a core
and we all know what happens to poly foam when it even smells fuel, I have
been trying to come up with a way to get rid of foam all together without
having to produce a set of molds. I think I have a plan.

The cores are hot-wired from foam blocks as usual but the core that we would
normally use is discarded. The "female" form, which is cut with the washout
already set in it laid out on a flat table. A thin sheet of mylar or similar
is cut to the required dimensions and laid inside the foam form. Glass is
then laid up on that with a core material.
The skins can be made in three pieces: D box, centre section and trailing
edge, all with "overlap" for bonding over the spars.
All these can be bonded together over the spars.
This method, if done carefully and accurately should produce a pretty fair
wing skin that is strong, light and need very little fairing. Final washout
can still be tweaked at final bonding.

Any thoughts?

Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Builders of award winning aircraft
tel:27419560048
cell: 27845805003
Port Elizabeth
South Africa





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KR> The KR2 or Sonerai 2 is a funeral waiting to happen

[Wayne Tokarz]

I would not lose one second of sleep, or give this guy one moments thought.
The internet is full of uneducated idiots who will spout off senseless
verbiage. It is very clear that this individual knows very little about
flying. I have been flying for over 32 years with mostly tail wheel time,
his comments about nose wheels is ludicrous. I used to own a 701, and the
nose wheel is a hindrance. I will never own another Zenair . KRs and
Sonnerais are GREAT little airplanes and a lot of bang for the buck.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Lange
Sent: February-13-14 7:47 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> The KR2 or Sonerai 2 is a funeral waiting to happen

Guys, 

I am not one to pick a fight on the internet, but we had a guy join
sonerai.net that was apprehensive about the design based on this comment:
"The KR2 or Sonerai 2 is a funeral waiting to happen"

This comment comes from the co-designer of the Sea-Era airplane (a very cool
little bird btw) and was posted on the HBA forum:
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/aircraft-design-aerodynamics-new-te
chnology/16362-zenith-kr2s-sonerai-safety-record-comparison-4.html#post20620
3

The above link is to the last page of the thread and shows both my comments
to him and his original asinine statement. Anyone else a member over there
and would like to defend our little airplanes?

Jeff Lange
Race 64 - Skye Racer
Blog: http://schmleff.blogspot.com
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/schmleff

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KR> 2013 KR Gathering Trip - Very Long Story.

[Wayne Tokarz]

Very nice Dan! I have been keeping an eye on this little bird for some time,
it looks like a really good machine.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Heath
Sent: February-12-14 10:31 AM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> 2013 KR Gathering Trip - Very Long Story.

Fools that they are.  LOL...



My Panther Building Documentation at  
PantherBuilder Web Site



Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC



But you are OK and will fly again.  I know it sucks not being able to fly
the plane you love so much.  I have been there a few times now with my KR in
the trees, my Clipper blown into our glider club trailer by a microburst or
small tornado, my Pacer ground looped by a friend, and a prop strike causing
a three week engine rebuild.  Can't keep me down and won't keep you down
either.  And for some reason AIG keeps selling me insurance at a good rate.





 Original Message 

Subject: KR> 2013 KR Gathering Trip - Very Long Story.

From: "Dan Heath" <  danrh at windstream.net>

List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Tue, February 11, 2014 4:13 pm

To: "'KRnet'" <  krnet at list.krnet.org>



I realize that a lot of time has passed since the Gathering last October. I
have planned on writing about the trip, but could not either bring myself to
do it, or did not think about doing so when I had the time.





After having worked diligently for almost a year, building and installing
wing tanks, removing the header tank, and installing my new Corvair engine,
in 2012, I was ready to head to the Gathering that year only to be sorely
disappointed by the onset of bad weather. Then arriving at Mt. Vernon, to
find that the weather was great for the duration, I was determined to make
the 2013 event.





But, not being able to help myself, I decided to install a new instrument
panel, which resulted in a complete re-wiring of the aircraft. I was able to
complete the task several weeks before Gathering time and just in time to go
to Camden to get my new Dynon Mode S transponder, certified. However, on the
trip back to CUB from Camden, I bounced and landed a little too much nose
down, which unknown to me at the time, caused the prop tip to strike and
severely damaged the prop. In an almost panic, I cried out to the KR Family
for help and it was not long before help arrived in the form of a Sterba
prop from Mark Langford. I could not install the spinner, so had to fly to
the Gathering without one. The important thing is that it got me and the
Black Bird to the annual celebration.





I departed CUB at about 10 am on Thursday morning, intending to fly on auto
pilot at 8500 ft, under ATC control. So, right after takeoff, I contacted
CAE and was set in the system and proceeded to climb to 8500. While
climbing, I tried to activate the Autopilot, which tested perfectly on the
ground, but it would not acquire. I kept getting an error on one of the
servos, so accepted the fact that I would be doing all the flying. 





The flight was un-eventful as I was passed from station to station on the
route to MVN. Not long after I started flying over the Smokey Mountains, I
began to encounter scattered clouds and did not want to get stuck below
them, so called for permission to climb to clear the clouds and permission
was granted to climb and remain VFR. This was repeated several times as I
got closer to the mountain range peak, which on my route was 6000 ft. I
began to see towering clouds in the distance and could tell that they were
thunder storms as confirmed by my Dynon Skyview. It was so cool to watch the
two towers grow, one taller than the other, until the tall one began to
break up at the top and the other stopped growing These towers were 2 or

3

thousand feet apart, and I had my sight set on flying between them. I knew
that once I cleared those, I would be heading down the other side of the
mountain range into the valley to my fuel stop. I had been climbing for
quite some time as I was almost mesmerized by the cloud cover and the two
towers that I was about to travel between. I could not help thinking about
what was happening and how impossible it might seem to some who had never
experienced such an adventure. It was almost like I was not there, like I
was outside of myself, watching a guy who built a box with wings on it,
flying between two towering clouds, a lot like I had experienced when
travelling in an airline. But it was me inside that box and as I was about
to cross over the peak and head down the other side to Upper Cumberland
Regional Airport in Tennessee, when I happened to notice that the Black
Bird's Corvair engine had taken us to almost 14,000 feet. I then realized
that I had been over 10,000 for some time now and began to check my physical
condition to be sure that I was not suffering from any delusions. I seemed
OK, but knew that I had to get down soon, so p

KR> Parabeam 3D fabric

[Wayne Tokarz]

WOW, very impressive product, certainly gets the ole bean a working on what
one can do with it.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of
brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com
Sent: February-10-14 12:51 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Parabeam 3D fabric

The resin is supposed to wick only through the vertical fibers and not fill
the voids.  Here is a video that is pretty interesting to watch.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSAgsiFp_G4

And here is the data sheet with the thicknesses and weights.

http://www.abic.se/pdf/ParabeamTechnicalDatasheet.pdf



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Parabeam 3D fabric
From: Tinyauto at aol.com
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Mon, February 10, 2014 9:47 am
To: krnet at list.krnet.org

Interesting stuff.

According to a Chinese manufacturer, they can make this stuff in carbon
fiber. The only other manufacture I have found is in the Netherlands. 
http://www.parabeam.nl/

One question I have with this product is how do you keep the space between
the two fabrics from saturating completely full of resin? If it did this, it
would be very heavy. The Chinese site says it is possible to use pour

foam to fill those voids in the Parabeam glass, but that isn't the normal
use. Here is a photo of the glass from the side:
http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/parabeam-bv/fiberglass-fabrics-3d-26847-18898
8.html
I think what is intended is just enough glass to fill those vertical looping
weaves but it sure does seam to me it would easily puddle inside and cause
the product to be very heavy. Any ideas on this? 

Also, from what I have read it will not do sharp corners well. Long gradual
curves are no problem, but I would guess the issue is the inner fabric would
buckle if trying to lay it into a sharp curved area of a female mold. 
Guessing here that the thin stuff would do a sharper radius than the thick
stuff. Looks like there should be a chart somewhere to use as a guideline
for this problem and there may be 

Though I am not building a KR, this group always talk about the most
interesting things and that is why I continue to read the daily postings.
Thank You!

Kevin Golden
Harrisonville, MO
Streak Shadow




 In a message dated 2/10/2014 8:24:43 A.M. Central Standard Time,
brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com writes:

I was wondering why they seem to have never done it in carbon fiber also.
Might just not be able to weave it correctly and get the spring back.

So far I found some large rolls on Ebay that work out to about $18/yard, but
it is the 1/2" thick stuff that is probably too thick for anything I would
want to do with it. Sounds high, but when compared with multiple layers of
glass and a core material it might not be that bad.

They make it from 3mm to 22mm thick. I would think the 3mm would be best for
something like a cowl or wheel pants and something in the 1/4"
range would be good for something like wing skins.

I sent a request on the web site for some samples and more info. I will let
you know what I find out.

Sam said that he does not know of anyone else using it. I would think that
it would have limited use for homebuilders except when used in a mold.

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Parabeam 3D fabric
From: "Mark Langford" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sun, February 09, 2014 8:45 pm
To: "KRnet" 

Brian Kraut wrote:

> Supposedly the resin goes to the outside layers and leaves an air 
> space in the middle so it winds up like a foam or Nomex core material 
> that is light and very strong.

Mark Lougheed and I looked at Parabeam back in the 90's, and it was
impressively strong but lightweight, but also very expensive. Let me know
when you find a price. I haven't heard anything about it lately (it was new
back then), so I figured it's been displaced by carbon fiber on Nomex, but
it probably has a niche with homebuilders...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com



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ht

KR> Other KR SITE

[Wayne Tokarz]

I have been using Yahoo groups for years, has always been a royal pain.
Nearly impossible to sign in , they change their protocols and lock you out,
they only want to pound the advertising into your face by forcing you into
using their accounts.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Doran Jaffas
Sent: February-10-14 2:46 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> Other KR SITE

Maybe I am too technically challenged... But I want to the other site to try
to sign up required Yahoo address. I tried to set up an email and I get to
the create an account part and nothing happens. The only thing a question
passwords keep coming up red but tried several times no luck.
Thought it might be interesting getting a couple of different websites and
share information crossline. Anyway guys and gals all is good this website!
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KR> Ercoup flying

[Wayne Tokarz]

I owned my ercoupe for quite a number of years and put hundreds of hours in it. 
The limited elevator was but apart of it. The controls were another very big 
part of it. Also there were no springs between them. There was a mixing 
bellcrank under the baggage bag. It was all hard connected with rod end 
bearings and had a very specific rigging procedure. I completely rebuilt mine 
in about 1986. It had a lot of dihedral and was capable of a lot of crosswind. 
Very easy to land, but still a lot of fun. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2014, at 12:21 PM, Larry&Sallie Flesner  
wrote:

> At 01:03 PM 1/31/2014, you wrote:
>> but the 'coupe had spring-mediated control linkage between the rudder and 
>> ailerons which provided automatic control coordination. This worked very 
>> well to prevent the cross-control stall problem, but made crabbing into a 
>> cross wind and slipping more difficult...not impossible.
> 
> 
> The cross-control stall was eliminated by limiting elevator travel so you 
> could not stall the main wing, not through interconnected controls.  The 
> Tripacer has interconnected aileron and rudder also but it will stall because 
> of greater elevator limits.  The Tripacer controls are spring connected so 
> you can override either control with the other.   Because you have no 
> independent rudder in an Ercoupe, you can't slip and must land in a crab in a 
> crosswind landing.  The gear is beefed up to handle greater side loads.  
> Because it has tricycle gear, it straightens itself out from a crabbed 
> touchdown.  Nice ideas for safety but basically makes it a mini van for sport 
> flying. :-)  It really seams "unnatural" to drive an Ercoupe down the taxi 
> way using the control wheel, just like in a car.  It just ain't 
> right...
> 
> Larry Flesner
> P.S. I seem to recall that if you got your license in a two control Ercoupe, 
> you were not licensed to fly a three control without further training / sign 
> off / etc.
> 
> 
> ___
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> options

KR> Cowling, altitudes, stall spin

[Wayne Tokarz]

I used to own an Ercoupe, it is a GREAT airplane. Lots of fun to fly. The
combination mixing the ailerons and rudders with washout and limited
elevator throw yielded an airplane that did stall or spin. You could get it
into a deep mush condition if you were in ground effect. This was bad as it
caused the aircraft to sort of drift sideways, causing people to panic and
crash. The correction was very easy but completely unnatural, forward stick!
And voila flying in control again! I did an extensive flight test with one
in the mid 80s and was never able to fully stall of spin the plane. Despite
the very large ailerons, performing rolls was slow but it did loop very
well! In the vertical it just flops over and starts to recover as speed
builds up.  Part of these flying characteristics, are a result of the
extreme differential in the ailerons and the rudders.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry&Sallie
Flesner
Sent: January-29-14 7:08 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Cowling, altitudes, stall spin

At 06:11 AM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
>On the stall spin note... There are airplanes with  different flying 
>characteristics I tend to agree with the other rwriter's statement 
>about please use the rudder For stall recovery. I would hate to see 
>someone who has an airplane with conventional flight characteristics 
>try to recover using aileron only in a stall as in most cases that is 
>an invitation for at the very least an unfortunate incident!
> Doran
++

I think what you mean to say is "use rudder to keep wings level in the
approach to a stall", not "use rudder for stall recovery".  Stall recovery
is release back pressure, add power.  Rudder is used in spin recovery to
stop rotation.

In the case of my KR, and I suspect others built with the same alignment,
using rudder input to keep wings level does not work.  You have to fly the
airplane depending on how it responses to control input.  They give us a
test period to determine such things.  My KR has the 3 1/2 degree washout in
the wing, as called for in the plans, and stalls from inboard to outboard
where the nose drops with the outer wing (ailerons) still effective.  Using
rudder at that point (in my KR) to lift a wing only aggravates the
situation.  It causes the nose to tuck down.  Other KR's may fly / respond
totally different, depending on their alignment / setup.  Also, in my KR,
the stall break is not sharp and it does not tend to drop a wing, just drop
the nose and fly straight ahead with the release of back pressure.

We are all taught in flight training to use rudder to keep wings level in
slow flight / stall.  How is that done in a "two control" 
Ercoupe ?  :-)

Larry Flesner


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KR> How many KRs in Canada

[Wayne Tokarz]

Cold Lake, Alberta here!

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Global
Solutions
Sent: January-28-14 11:09 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> How many KRs in Canada

Who on this list is from Canada?
Would be nice to arrange a get together in the warmer weather.
Regards
Stan


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KR> gathering forum idea

[Wayne Tokarz]

Having owned a body shop  and built many paint booths over the years, I have
developed an excellent design for one offs and "back-yard" types.  While
still using a used furnace motor and fan. The principle is very easy, DON'T
draw out the overspray and fumes, rather "blow" them out. It's a positive
pressure design. I will try to post some pics this weekend. I mount the fan
inside a box with two HEPA furnace filters on the sides. This is mounted to
the ceiling and outside wall of the paint booth and blow air into a wooden
plenum, (~ 4' X 8' X 2') that is also mounted on the ceiling but inside the
paint booth. The plenum has cut outs on one face and the bottom for 4
furnace filters. The entire booth is made out of sticks and poly. At the far
end of the booth is my "door" and it has along the bottom edge 3 furnace
filters. For those that are mathematically inclined, the number of filters
"blowing" air into the booth exceeds those "exhausting" out, there for you
get a pressure differential or positive pressure inside the booth vice
ambient air outside. You will have a combination of cross flow and
downdraught at the same time! The real benefit is that the positive pressure
in the booth will not just blow out the exhaust but will serve to blow out
every crack, crevice, joint, etc. in the booth, vice sucking in air, (dirty
unfiltered air) from those same areas. I control the quality of air going in
and the thus have a cleaner safer paint booth. 
  "Sucking" the over spray and fumes out means having a potentially
dangerous situation where the flammable fumes are drawn across an open
electric motor as well as gumming up the fan blades very quickly. Mine is
permanently mounted in a corner of my hanger and has folding walls that
swing out of the way when not in use. Takes 5 minutes to set up when I need,
of course that is not including moving everything out of the way first! LOL!
Over the years this system has served me very well and produced some pretty
darn good work. 

Wayne


I am more than happy to share any knowledge or experience I have with
painting and finishing and leave that up to Larry. I am currently getting
ready to paint my SCCA sports race car and will try to take plenty of
pictures of the process and my home made paint booth. The booth is a pretty
simple design with a down flow (air) idea. The idea is to basically pull air
in from the top and filter exhaust air our of the bottom back side. Its a
simple erector set style idea using ?2 X 3 lumber and polyethylene clear
sheeting, a few dense micron furnace filters to draw air in from the top and
push them out with a squirrel cage fan out of a used furnace to both filter
and exhaust air out of the bottom. ?Its all put together using screws so
that I can take it apart to store in my hanger. I have thought about re
doing it with PVC pipes and PVC elbows to allow putting it together and
taking it apart without using screws. Simply slip it together.?

Jeff York
KR2

KR> Something to amuse

[Wayne Tokarz]

Thanks Dene, that was a blast. Those guys were having a lot of good spirited
fun with their machines. 

Wayne

Corsair Enterprises Ltd.
Wayne & Kathy
office: 780-594-3456
fax: 780-594-4176
#1 5401 56 Ave
Mailing address:
P.O. Box 8166
Cold Lake, AB
T9M 1N1



-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dene Collett
Sent: June-10-13 1:42 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> Something to amuse

Damn I forgot to attach the link to the video taken today and now I'v lost
it!
Sorry guys
This is another video taken in the same spot in January this year.
Here it is: http://vimeo.com/58364692


Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Port Elizabeth
South Africa



> >-Original Message-
> >From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dene
Collett
> >Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:54 PM
> >To: 'KRnet'
> >Subject: KR> Something to amuse
> >
> >Hi guys
> >I though tthis short video would totally amuse you guys.
> >These guys get together just down the road from my house at the coast and
> >have a ball regularly.
> >I am planning on joining them with a model KR soon.
> >I have already built my son a P51 and almost completed a MIG-7.
> >Enjoy and apologies for it not being totally KR!
> >
> >
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Dene Collett
> >
> >Avlec Projects cc
> >
> >Port Elizabeth
> >
> >South Africa
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >___
> >Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> >To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
options
> >
> >
> >-
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6394 - Release Date: 06/08/13


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KR> Weight.

[Wayne Tokarz]

COOL! Thanks guys, some very useful information. I'm a bit of a minimalist,
however, safety, reasonable upgrades and modifications will all add-up. I
will now have to make my list, and live with the results.

Wayne T.

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert7721
Sent: May-22-13 8:42 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: Re: KR> Weight.

My original KR2S weight was 600 pounds at inspection in 2006. I was pretty
happy with that. Probably up to about 625 pounds by now. Max weight is 1100
pounds - that was calculated to keep the C.G. from going aft of the limit -
no other reason. VW Revmaster 2100 engine, just a header tank, no flaps or
belly board. Just basic VFR instruments at 1st flight. Since then I've added
lights, Dynon D6, Transponder, and MGL V6 radio. Over 480 hours flight on it
since 2006. 

Rob Schmitt
N1852Z
www.robert7721.com






-Original Message-


781 lbs! is that  not a bit on the heavy side? What do other planes
"typically" come in at? 


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KR> Weight & Balance

[Wayne Tokarz]

781 lbs! is that  not a bit on the heavy side? What do other planes
"typically" come in at? The spread sheet on the net is a bit dated and not
very complete. Not criticizing, just curious.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood
Sent: May-21-13 8:33 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> Weight & Balance

Empty weight is
781 pounds; FAA calculated gross is 1178 pounds for a useful load of 397
pounds.
With my tender body onboard the CG ranges from 12.4" full fuel to 11.2" 
Empty.
Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA




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KR> new panel for N891JF

[Wayne Tokarz]

WOW! What a dramatic change, very nice work.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford
Sent: April-21-13 7:39 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> new panel for N891JF

The new panel for N891JF is finally coming together.  See
http://www.n56ml.com/n891jf/panel/panel_trial_fit for a trial fit of the big
stuff mounted and almost ready to wire some stuff.  Details are at
http://www.n56ml.com/n891jf/panel .  I'm also working to change the canopy
from side-hinged to front-hinged.  Simple to do, I think.  More to come in
the next few weeks, I hope.  When I'm done I'll have a website that details
how I did all of this stuff...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com


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KR> prop sticking to hub

[Wayne Tokarz]

Sorry about the windshield...but it is done, safety glass cannot be buffed,
polished or anything. A single edge razor, (with care) is very good for
removing stuck or caked on debris from both the windshield and the hub. Care
must be exercised not to scratch anything. Using ANY product that requires a
"sanding motion" will invariably have an abrasive component to it and this
is to be avoided unless you are goal is to use abrasives to accomplish the
task, ie: sanding or polishing, not cleaning. Use a bar of soap and rub a
little on the back of the prop, polish lightly to smooth it out, use your
finger to get a little in the holes or on the drive dogs. Any automotive
paste wax will do the same thing, more IS NOT better. 

Wayne 

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Jones
Sent: April-20-13 6:38 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> prop sticking to hub

- Original Message -
From: "Randy Powell" 

> Make it stainless steel steel wool.   But I would still use a fine 
> scotchbrite pad on the hub and not steel wool.

Scotchbrite pads contain fine particles of steel that will embed themselves
in your wood prop and will scratch your hub. I did not know Scotchbrite pads
contained steel particles. I had just replaced a cracked windshield in my
car and somehow got a real hard substance like sap right in my drivers field
of view. Regular glass cleaner would not get it off and I just happened to
see my box of Scotchbrite pads and grabbed one thinking it would get it off
easily. Well it pretty much did and it also scratched my windshield and now
I have a very annoying spot right in my line of sight. I know this is off KR
now but if anyone knows a remedy to get the scratches out of my new
windshield I would appreciate you letting mme know. Thanks


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com




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KR> prop sticking to hub

[Wayne Tokarz]

Soap?yep, simple, I got this from some old guys he did it wy back when all 
there was, was wood props.



Wayne



From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of brian.kraut 
at eamanufacturing.com
Sent: April-19-13 7:57 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> prop sticking to hub



When I took off my Sterba wood prop today the crush plate was stuck to it and 
it took a rap from a soft hammer to get it off and some varnish came with it.  
It was stuck even worse to the hub and I really had a hell of a time getting it 
off and half of the varnish from the prop stayed stuck to the hub.  



I got the prop about 3 weeks ago so the varnish was well cured and it was only 
on the plane for two days and properly torqued.  I have had this problem with 
other Sterba props on different planes also.



Any suggestions on how I can keep it from sticking when I put it back on?  Not 
sure if a good wax would do it or not.  Thinking of maybe putting Saran wrap 
between the prop and the hub then trimming it after torquing the bolts.  Any 
better ideas?

KR> the aging of glass cloth

[Wayne Tokarz]

Very well spoken, I have years of composite manufacturing and repair in both 
the military and civilian world. Jeff is absolutely right on the money. Your 
cloth is more than fine for what we are doing. Besides, look at the types of 
glues, resins and ugg, dynil fabric that Ken designed and built planes with 
we are way ahead of where this little bird started are way overthinking it.  
  Build, sand, sand somemore, fly, smile, be happy

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Scott
Sent: March-28-13 3:09 PM
To: Craig Williams; KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> the aging of glass cloth

  towards the bottom of the page 
titles "Glass Finishes".

SWEET COMPOSITES
6211 RIDGE DRIVE, BETHESDA, MD 20816-2641 USA
301-229-2201 [9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. ET]

These guys are right down the road from you in Bethesda, MD, so you might want 
to stop by and talk to them in person.  If you read my previous post, you would 
see that the sizing is cleaned from the cloth after weaving.  Then the cloth is 
treated with Silane to enhance bonding with the glass resins.  The Silane does 
have a shelf life which can be shorter or longer depending on the conditions of 
storage.

This doesn't mean that you should toss out all your old glass cloth.  But you 
might want to use something with a recent manufacture date if you are building 
a structural component.  Strictly speaking, the majority of the glass work you 
will do on your KR is not structural.  I wouldn't hesitate to use the older 
glass cloths for most of what we do.  Most structural components in the KR are 
constructed of wood.  Even the wing and tail surfaces are not really considered 
structural components as the load bearing is done with wood spars that are 
bonded to a wooden fuselage.

Now, if you are doing something that's really a one off for a KR, like building 
your spars out of glass, then the age of the glass would be important.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

> - Original Message -
> From: Craig Williams
> Sent: 03/28/13 02:41 PM
> To: KRNet
> Subject: KR> the aging of glass cloth
> 
> Hmmm
> 
> The discussion on glass cloth having a shelf life is interesting but I can 
> find no documentation that states that the sizing used on fiberglass products 
> has a shelf life.  If it were so, you would be able to find something about 
> it someplace.  If someone can point me to a manufacturers web page or a white 
> paper or something that says it's an issue I sure would be interested in 
> reading it.  Otherwise I say it's a myth.
> 
> Craig
> www.kr2seafury.com


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KR> First Flight Issues - Elevator Trim

[Wayne Tokarz]

Nyrod seems to be a very popular product here in the KR group, but honestly,
I am confused, why would anyone use Nyrod at all? I have been a modeller for
over 40 years and a homebuilder/pilot for over 30, this is a terrible
product, we used to crash models because of how badly they would go out of
trim due to expansion co-efficient of this product. The outer sheath issue
you had Sid, has ALWAYS been an issue with this product and has caused more
than its fair share of grief in models. NOTHING known to man will stick to
it and because of its oily nylon composition, even clamps slide on it. I see
its attractiveness, but the reality of it is, do you want to trust your
investment and potentially your life on this? Yours should be a lesson to
all KRers. 
  On a positive note, I'm really happy this ended as well as it did and
obviously it was due in part to your most professional handling of the
situation and expert piloting skills. Thanks for sharing and helping
everyone to avoid another potential pitfall.

Wayne

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood
Sent: March-26-13 6:58 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> First Flight Issues - Elevator Trim

On the first flight, 3/23/13, moments after lift off, the elevator trim
jumped to Full Nose Up.  Trim control in the cockpit was non-responsive.  I
had to hold firm forward pressure on the stick to maintain level flight with
the stick position about neutral.  The bounced landing bent the nose strut.
Investigation after the flight revealed the epoxy seal on the sheath of the
Nyrod trim tab rod had broken.  The Nyrod center rod and the sheath were not
damaged.  The break is at the entrance to the horizontal stabilizer leading
edge inside the fuselage.  This allowed the sheath to move resulting in the
trim tab moving to the Full Nose Up position.  The fix is to secure the
Nyrod sheath.  This is the same practical installation requirements for any
Bowden cable.
NV aero is shipping a new nose strut.
Here are some pictures from my website showing the Trim Control in the
cockpit at Full Nose Down, the Elevator Trim Tab at Full Nose Up, and the
broken Nyrod sheath anchor area:

http://websites.expercraft.com/sidwood/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=71577

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA



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KR> Brian/ epoxy

[Wayne Tokarz]

Hi guys, I don't say much but here is my two cents worth. Brian, this flying
thing is a serious endeavor and fraught with pitfalls. Best not to cause
yourself more grief than needed. This little bird is a very frugal way to
get some good flying in, but like everything else, has limitations. Certain
epoxies are more sensitive than others to mixing ratios, it is critical to
follow manufactories directions in this respect. You said "Dynel" in one
post. I would very strongly recommend that you re-skin those area as you
will only have trouble over the long period and I don't know of any KRs
still flying with it as it is prone to cracking. When it comes to safety and
doing things right, this group is a pretty amazing bunch and will truly work
hard to help you have the most rewarding experience possible on this
wonderful adventure. I'm working on my second KR and plan to keep it super
simple and super light, like it was intended to be. I currently own/work
on/fly a KR-2, Pietenpol, Barracuda, Emeraude, and a Renegade, well most of
them are wood!



Wayne





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