KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Colin Rainey wrote: >> Unfortunately I have to agree with the local jurisdiction on their >> decision to prohibit the repair and construction of cars, trucks, and now >> light aircraft outside of a building and the storage of such items in >> side or backyards, regardless of its intended use.<< Many of us probably agree with you, but the "big deal" is the part in the legislation that prohibited: "Repairing, testing, operation, constructing, modifying or altering flying craft and airboats shall be prohibited in all residential districts..." Now you can't build or even change the oil in an airplane AT ALL! This is a big deal to all of us... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG
Steve and Colin You are both right. No one wants a junkyard next door, thats why there are laws like that but the reasonable man deal would work if we were dealing with reasonable people. My suggestion. Get the ACLU on our side. They are big on going to bat for minorities and scare the crap out minor polititians and annoy everyone. We are definitly a minority ! We have civil rights and that is what they are suppost to do ! Maybe we could turn their own guns on them, worked well for Gen. N. B. Forrest. This IS KR talk. Steve Bray Jackson, Tennessee >From: "Steve Glover" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "'KRnet'" >Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG >Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:34:15 -0700 > >Well Colin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is that >laws such as this is where we all have had our rights or civil liberties >encroached upon. Where are my rights when I cannot utilize my own >property, that I have paid for, for my entertainment or enjoyment as >long as I do not cause damage or harm to anyone. One could argue they >are "damaged" from having to view my plane. In that case I could give a >rats and they should close the curtain or get a life. I whole heartedly >agree that there is a limit to what one could/ should do in public view. >Your statement regarding abandoned or junk cars, etc. within a city >limit or neighborhood certainly would affect property values and >therefore damaging to others. But something like building a car, >aircraft, boat, or other constructive like hobby does not fall into this >category as long as the property in public view is maintained and not >used as a junk yard. > >This type of abuse of the political system is indicative of how liberal >our society has become in regards to the bleeding hearts or Democrats >who are, in my opinion the root cause of why our society has declined so >markedly in moral and ethical conviction. They must all be members of >the ACLU or any of these other organizations who think everybody owes >them something and will file a law suit just because they can. I also >have been on the enforcement side but there is a Reasonable Man's rule >that must apply. The problem is, there are very few reasonable men in >the political arena. > >I ordinarily abstain from this type of discussion on the net as it is a >waste of my time. However, this particular type of abuse of the system >irritates the fire out of me. > >This is not a flame toward you Colin, just my opinion. Now Back to KR >stuff, we have better things to do. > >Regards, > >Steve Glover >KR-2 N902G >AJO, Ca > > > > >-Original Message- >From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On >Behalf Of beverlyrai...@bellsouth.net >Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:12 PM >To: kr...@mylist.net >Subject: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws > > >Netters >Unfortunately I have to agree with the local jurisdiction on their >decision to prohibit the repair and construction of cars, trucks, and >now light aircraft outside of a building and the storage of such items >in side or backyards, regardless of its intended use. > >In cities like Jacksonville, where it is already a severe problem that >vehicles of all kinds find "themselves" first parked and then later, >parted out as "project" cars or trucks, to open up the possibility of >someone finding a loop hole to exploit, so that now they can have a auto >repair shop in their back yard, or driveway, due to undefined "projects" >present, would end up a massive problem for all residential property >owners. My old subdivision was governed by the City of Sanford Florida. >They had a city ordinance that no repairs to any automobile, truck, or >"vehicle" including trailers, could be accomplished in the open in your >driveway. Any repairs desired could be accomplished inside an enclosed >garage or out building, to include project car restorations, and >specifically my airplane in my single car garage. They knew about my >plane, and openly stated that as long as it was never stored outside, or >that repairs and construction were conducted inside the garage, that I >was fine and within the law. They KNEW it would or could take years to >finish; that was okay. > >By prohibiting the storage of parts of anything, planes or cars, or >machines, in the opne side or back yards, or in the driveways of >residential homes is nothing more than legislation that protects home >owner values. When it is inside your garage, out of sight from your >neighbor, and they want to interfere, it is a violation of your civil >rights. When your neighbor can see it, and can find it an eye sore, e
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
I seem to be missing something Colin. Are you not working on your airplane in an open carport on the side of your house? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of beverlyrai...@bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 9:12 PM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws Netters Unfortunately I have to agree with the local jurisdiction on their decision to prohibit the repair and construction of cars, trucks, and now light aircraft outside of a building and the storage of such items in side or backyards, regardless of its intended use. In cities like Jacksonville, where it is already a severe problem that vehicles of all kinds find "themselves" first parked and then later, parted out as "project" cars or trucks, to open up the possibility of someone finding a loop hole to exploit, so that now they can have a auto repair shop in their back yard, or driveway, due to undefined "projects" present, would end up a massive problem for all residential property owners. My old subdivision was governed by the City of Sanford Florida. They had a city ordinance that no repairs to any automobile, truck, or "vehicle" including trailers, could be accomplished in the open in your driveway. Any repairs desired could be accomplished inside an enclosed garage or out building, to include project car restorations, and specifically my airplane in my single car garage. They knew about my plane, and openly stated that as long as it was never stored outside, or that repairs and construction were conducted inside the garage, that I was fine and within the law. They KNEW it would or could take years to finish; that was okay. By prohibiting the storage of parts of anything, planes or cars, or machines, in the opne side or back yards, or in the driveways of residential homes is nothing more than legislation that protects home owner values. When it is inside your garage, out of sight from your neighbor, and they want to interfere, it is a violation of your civil rights. When your neighbor can see it, and can find it an eye sore, even if it is not one, then you are encroaching on your neighbor's rights. You might not like him storing a sign promoting Gay Rights propped against the side of his house, facing yours. To him, he might find your partially assembled plane peeking out from under a cover, just as offensive. WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND that many people DO NOT share our passion for flying, nor do they understand our commitment to its enjoyment. We already have too many pilots who beligerently assert their right to fly, even though they have been asked to conduct such operations with noise abatement, but disregard this request saying it is their right to fly! Years later the airport is shut down because there is only several hundred pilot votes to remain open, compared to many thousands non-pilot votes to close the airport. Like it or not, these are our neighbors. We have to find a way to compromise, or solos like the one that just happened are going to gradually become less and less frequent. They will just lock us out of their airspace, and then who knows what next Sorry about the length; but I can see both sides, and I have BEEN on the enforcement side. For every situation that has merit, there are 10 that are just blatent violations. We have to work with administrations for the common good, just like we work with the FAA, though we don't always agree with them Colin Rainey N96TA Ormond Beach, FL ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
--- Mark Langford wrote: > Now you can't build or even change the oil in an > airplane AT ALL! One man's junk is another man's treasure. I can' tell you how many flaming idiots who start a car project, only to leave it rusting inthe yard for ten years, will tell you that they are in the process of "building it". I have not said anything until now, but now I will say it. We are getting ONE SIDE of this story. I'd sure like to hear the neighbors chime in on this. My gut feeling has me thinking that it's more than just a problem of one airplane in a garage, just as the problem at my house was mor ethan just one Harley in the garageit was ten Harleys, late nights tuning them, and loud music and beer-drinking idiots. But that was ten years ago. Scott __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Building an airplane is considered by many to be a form of artwork. Where is our freedom of expression?? Mike Turner Jackson Mo - Original Message - From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 9:37 PM Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws >I seem to be missing something Colin. Are you not working on your airplane > in an open carport on the side of your house? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of beverlyrai...@bellsouth.net > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 9:12 PM > To: kr...@mylist.net > Subject: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws > > > Netters > Unfortunately I have to agree with the local jurisdiction on their > decision > to prohibit the repair and construction of cars, trucks, and now light > aircraft outside of a building and the storage of such items in side or > backyards, regardless of its intended use.
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last post. They are talking about not doing any maintenance or building an aircraft EVEN INSIDE AN ENCLOSED BUILDING, LIKE INSIDE YOUR GARAGE! That doesn't bother anybody? You can argue all day that some guy may be making all kinds of annoying noises, but there are "disturbing the peace" ordinances that should take care of that. What you're doing behind closed doors is your business, unless of course it's illegal (and we're talking child abuse/molestation, etc), and now building a homebuilt is illegal as well. That doesn't bother you guys? Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Scott: That may be but the way it is written your son could not even buildan r/c model airplane are air-boat. I call that overly broad and unreasonable. Most places would define a car as junk if it were not licensed and unkempt. and most that have such ordinances have as a tool to remediate a problem and not handle things as Brian described being treated. Did I miss something here? That being said I don't like living in incorporated areas either for they sooner or later get around to dictate your life chapter and verse and then charge you a premium in the for of taxes for you living in their borders. They also pass codes and ordinances to mandate how things should be doe and require that it all be either executed or approved by licenced persons, generally at a premium price because they "Got Ya"! Don Lively Burlington IA 52601 Scott William wrote: > --- Mark Langford wrote: > > Now you can't build or even change the oil in an > > airplane AT ALL! > > One man's junk is another man's treasure. > > I can' tell you how many flaming idiots who start a > car project, only to leave it rusting inthe yard for > ten years, will tell you that they are in the process > of "building it". > > I have not said anything until now, but now I will say > it. We are getting ONE SIDE of this story. I'd sure > like to hear the neighbors chime in on this. > > My gut feeling has me thinking that it's more than > just a problem of one airplane in a garage, just as > the problem at my house was mor ethan just one Harley > in the garageit was ten Harleys, late nights > tuning them, and loud music and beer-drinking idiots. > But that was ten years ago. > > Scott > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Mark is right where it concerns ANY prohibition in an enclosed structure. Brian, I have no problem with a man building for his own education, and learning, even if it is visible. But admittedly you are working on more than one project, and (not taking sides) unfortunately that puts your case into the realm of business, and not personal. If an individual has ANY kind of enclosure, either temporary or permanent, in which to work, and prudently makes "noise" during acceptable hours, then he should be allowed to follow his pursuit. As Mark pointed out, and I am in agreement with, though my initial over generalization did not indicate, the part of the law that we should be challenging is the part quoted which DOES restrict our civil liberties. That is your platform Brian, and anyone else who wishes to take this to another level. BUT, I am sorry if I offend or contradict, but in plain sight is bad, from the City's point of view, and I have to agree with it. If I were next door, I would not want 5 planes worth of parts under a tarp, taking away from value. I have one complete fuselage, being modified. That is a far cry from their gripe about mulitples. I believe in all that we do, and support it all. BUT, we must be careful and make sure that the parts that are valid in their complaint are complied with and the parts that are, such as limiting with an enclosure be struck down. I would encourage an appeal in the Federal Court System, and base it on a civil rights violation where the wording contains the parts, "Repairing, testing, operation, constructing, modifying or altering flying craft and airboats shall be prohibited in all residential districts..." and make them change the wording of the law to only restrict the parts that agree with code violations identical to that of cars and trucks. Then you are only limited to what is out in the open. If it came down to it, and I was complained on, I am prepared to enclose my awning to become an enclosed garage. Then I should be allowed to do whatever, so long as it does not endanger human life (the only other good reason to prohibit). Please do not mis-understand: I am not saying Brian or any one else is wrong. BUT, if what you are doing, falls into the criteria of code violation, those laws have been in effect for many years and have been affirmed by courts all over the US. Instead of needless expensive court battles to prove nothing, find out what to do to comply with code, and then do it. I have been given temporary permission by my subdivision HOA committee, so I made before hand that it was okay. If that is ever recended, then I move to plan B. The only way to beat this is to amend the law to allow for the responsible repair and maintenance, and construction in an acceptable way to the city. That is why AOPA nor EAA will enter the fight. It cannot be won if your goal is to have the whole law struck down. Challenge the part I quoted from Mark Langford and you have a leg to stand on. Otherwise it falls too easily into the category of code violation, and like it or not they will win! There is too much court precedence and enforcement to support them to repeal it. I am just trying to convey to everyone how they work, how they will win, and what you can do to challenge. Fight the good fight. Don't just take on city hall for kicks or because you have a bone to pick. It is only your rights until it adversely effects someone else. Everyone is too hung up on what I want and what I want to do. Basic tort law supports that the moment your pursuits have a negative effect on another person, they have a right to seek damages. In this case it is the city and their balance of property rights. Just because you own a piece of land, you cannot do any old thing you want to with it. I know that hurts but it is true. Everyone's feelings are valid and admirable. But they must be directed to the parts of the law that are wrong and have it amended to allow freedom with an enclosure. Colin N96TA > > From: "Mark Langford" > Date: 2006/07/18 Tue PM 09:42:51 EDT > To: "KRnet" > Subject: Re: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws > > Colin Rainey wrote: > > >> Unfortunately I have to agree with the local jurisdiction on their > >> decision to prohibit the repair and construction of cars, trucks, and now > >> light aircraft outside of a building and the storage of such items in > >> side or backyards, regardless of its intended use.<< > > Many of us probably agree with you, but the "big deal" is the part in the > legislation that prohibited: > "Repairing, testing, operation, constructing, modifying or altering flying > craft and airboats shall be prohibited in all residential districts..." > Now you can't build or even change the oil in an ai
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Colin Rainey wrote: >>Please do not mis-understand: I am not saying Brian or any one else is >>wrong. BUT, if what you are doing, falls into the criteria of code >>violation, those laws have been in effect for many years and have been >>affirmed by courts all over the US. << You may have missed the fact that this law was not "in effect for many years", but was enacted in the last week or so, especially to deal with Brian, since he'd fought city hall on the basis of existing laws and had already won several times. They couldn't beat him with existing laws, so they ginned up this new one especially for him. It's not fair, it's ridiculous, and it needs to be struck down, or we'll all eventually be living under something like it, and then building an airplane like I did, in my basement for 12 years, will cost about 100x more, because then you'll have to rent a hangar and drive 30 miles back and forth just to work on it for a few minutes... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
--- Mark Langford wrote: > You may have missed the fact that this law was not > "in effect for many > years", but was enacted in the last week or so, > especially to deal with > Brian, Again, I'd like to hear the other side of the story. If Brian has several airplane projects in his yard, and is operating as a business out of a residential unit, then the city is just reacting to it's inability to stop said activity with their existing laws. All of these are "if's", not speculation on my part. Here's somthing to ruffle feathers: If Brian has been operating a business out of his house, as the address on his website suggests, then the city's new law to prevent this is a direct result of Brian's actions, ie: circumventing existing ordinances. If THAT is the case, then we all don't have the city to blame for such restrictive new laws, but rather the lack of cooperation on the part of one memebr of that city. It's like this: There are many new laws restricting where motorcycles can be ridden,most of which were the direct result of motorcycles with loud exhaust pipes pissing people off with all the noise. So, who do we blame? The people who make the laws, or Mr. Loudpipe and his ignorance of his neighbor's right to peace? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
If they want to have that much control of your property thay need to be paying your mortgage , its that simple. Jim On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:36:55 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last post. They are > talking > about not doing any maintenance or building an aircraft EVEN INSIDE > AN > ENCLOSED BUILDING, LIKE INSIDE YOUR GARAGE! That doesn't bother > anybody? > You can argue all day that some guy may be making all kinds of > annoying > noises, but there are "disturbing the peace" ordinances that should > take > care of that. What you're doing behind closed doors is your > business, > unless of course it's illegal (and we're talking child > abuse/molestation, > etc), and now building a homebuilt is illegal as well. That doesn't > bother > you guys? > > Mark Langford, Harvest, AL > see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Perhaps the Jacksonville City Fathers should consider relocation to China or Russia where they would feel right at home and the people would be more receptive to their dictatorial policies? Been to Russia so I know where from I speak! Don Lively Burlington IA James Ferris wrote: > If they want to have that much control of your property thay need to be > paying your mortgage , its that simple. > Jim > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:36:55 -0500 "Mark Langford" > writes: > > I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last post. They are > > talking > > about not doing any maintenance or building an aircraft EVEN INSIDE > > AN > > ENCLOSED BUILDING, LIKE INSIDE YOUR GARAGE! That doesn't bother > > anybody? > > You can argue all day that some guy may be making all kinds of > > annoying > > noises, but there are "disturbing the peace" ordinances that should > > take > > care of that. What you're doing behind closed doors is your > > business, > > unless of course it's illegal (and we're talking child > > abuse/molestation, > > etc), and now building a homebuilt is illegal as well. That doesn't > > bother > > you guys? > > > > Mark Langford, Harvest, AL > > see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com > > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > > > > ___ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
There is another interresting part in the ordinances. The two parts seem to contradict each other. I established a right (by court order) to construct airplanes at my home before the ordinance. Any lawyers out there care to interpret this one?\ Sec. 1.108. Code does not affect prior offenses or rights. (a) Nothing in this Code or the ordinance adopting this Code affects any offense or act committed or done, any penalty or forfeiture incurred, or any contract or right established before the effective date of this Code. (b) The adoption of this Code does not authorize any use or the continuation of any use of a structure or premises in violation of any city ordinance on the effective date of this Code. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark Langford" Reply-To: KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:49:56 -0500 >Colin Rainey wrote: > >>>Please do not mis-understand: I am not saying Brian or any one else is >>>wrong. BUT, if what you are doing, falls into the criteria of code >>>violation, those laws have been in effect for many years and have been >>>affirmed by courts all over the US. << > >You may have missed the fact that this law was not "in effect for many >years", but was enacted in the last week or so, especially to deal with >Brian, since he'd fought city hall on the basis of existing laws and had >already won several times. They couldn't beat him with existing laws, so >they ginned up this new one especially for him. It's not fair, it's >ridiculous, and it needs to be struck down, or we'll all eventually be >living under something like it, and then building an airplane like I did, in >my basement for 12 years, will cost about 100x more, because then you'll >have to rent a hangar and drive 30 miles back and forth just to work on it >for a few minutes... > >Mark Langford, Harvest, AL >see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com >email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > >___ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.engalt.com
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
YES,. now can we please keep this quiet so the law makers in my town wont catch on. Maybe everyone needs to write the Jacksonville mayor. If they come up with this law in my town I will have to build a private room under my house just like the hidden "SPEAK EASY'S" during prohibition. Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama Mark Langford wrote: > I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last post. They are talking > about not doing any maintenance or building an aircraft EVEN INSIDE AN > ENCLOSED BUILDING, LIKE INSIDE YOUR GARAGE! That doesn't bother anybody? >That doesn't bother > you guys? >
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Guys, You know this really pi$$es me off just as much as the rest of you but off the hip comments do nothing to help the situation. If you really want to voice your opinion then why not do it where it will help Brian and his situation. Do you really think the officials in Jacksonville are monitoring the KR Net to see what Brian's friends think about his dilemma? Ha, don't kid yourself. So, we can continue to make useless posts here on the Net about what is happening in Jacksonville or we can contact Brian and ask him the names and e-mail addresses of the officials he is dealing with and voice our opinion to them directly. This may not sway the officials in Jacksonville to change their minds but it sure will let them know Brian is not the only one opposed to their plans. I was also amazed to hear that AOPA said there was nothing they could do to help but since this is an off airport circumstance, I guess that constitutes their decision so it will be interesting to see what EAA says. -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of D F Lively Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:00 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws Perhaps the Jacksonville City Fathers should consider relocation to China or Russia where they would feel right at home and the people would be more receptive to their dictatorial policies? Been to Russia so I know where from I speak! Don Lively Burlington IA James Ferris wrote: > If they want to have that much control of your property thay need to be > paying your mortgage , its that simple. > Jim > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:36:55 -0500 "Mark Langford" > writes: > > I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last post. They are > > talking > > about not doing any maintenance or building an aircraft EVEN INSIDE > > AN > > ENCLOSED BUILDING, LIKE INSIDE YOUR GARAGE! That doesn't bother > > anybody? > > You can argue all day that some guy may be making all kinds of > > annoying > > noises, but there are "disturbing the peace" ordinances that should > > take > > care of that. What you're doing behind closed doors is your > > business, > > unless of course it's illegal (and we're talking child > > abuse/molestation, > > etc), and now building a homebuilt is illegal as well. That doesn't > > bother > > you guys? > > > > Mark Langford, Harvest, AL > > see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com > > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > > > > ___ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
The RV list has already contacted the EAA attorney who volunteered to work with the Jacksonville attorney drafting the final ordinance. Seems the RV'er had some pull. More to follow. BTW, a member of the RV list in Jacksonville already contacted a representative from the local gov. who relayed to him Brian's name and the "problems" that brought about this action. The metal crowd is up in arms also and have moved to have something happen. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html do not archive _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
I have been trying to keep a low profile while I build a web site with all of the information and supporting doccuments and contacts. It will be at www.jaxairplane.com. It should be finished tonight sometime. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Jones Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:37 AM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws Guys, You know this really pi$$es me off just as much as the rest of you but off the hip comments do nothing to help the situation. If you really want to voice your opinion then why not do it where it will help Brian and his situation. Do you really think the officials in Jacksonville are monitoring the KR Net to see what Brian's friends think about his dilemma? Ha, don't kid yourself. So, we can continue to make useless posts here on the Net about what is happening in Jacksonville or we can contact Brian and ask him the names and e-mail addresses of the officials he is dealing with and voice our opinion to them directly. This may not sway the officials in Jacksonville to change their minds but it sure will let them know Brian is not the only one opposed to their plans. I was also amazed to hear that AOPA said there was nothing they could do to help but since this is an off airport circumstance, I guess that constitutes their decision so it will be interesting to see what EAA says. -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of D F Lively Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:00 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws Perhaps the Jacksonville City Fathers should consider relocation to China or Russia where they would feel right at home and the people would be more receptive to their dictatorial policies? Been to Russia so I know where from I speak! Don Lively Burlington IA James Ferris wrote: > If they want to have that much control of your property thay need to be > paying your mortgage , its that simple. > Jim > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:36:55 -0500 "Mark Langford" > writes: > > I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last post. They are > > talking > > about not doing any maintenance or building an aircraft EVEN INSIDE > > AN > > ENCLOSED BUILDING, LIKE INSIDE YOUR GARAGE! That doesn't bother > > anybody? > > You can argue all day that some guy may be making all kinds of > > annoying > > noises, but there are "disturbing the peace" ordinances that should > > take > > care of that. What you're doing behind closed doors is your > > business, > > unless of course it's illegal (and we're talking child > > abuse/molestation, > > etc), and now building a homebuilt is illegal as well. That doesn't > > bother > > you guys? > > > > Mark Langford, Harvest, AL > > see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com > > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > > > > ___ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG
I like your point of view. Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com -- Original Message -- From: "Steve Glover" Reply-To: KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:34:15 -0700 Well Colin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is that laws such as this is where we all have had our rights or civil liberties encroached upon. Where are my rights when I cannot utilize my own property, that I have paid for, for my entertainment or enjoyment as long as I do not cause damage or harm to anyone. One could argue they are "damaged" from having to view my plane. In that case I could give a rats and they should close the curtain or get a life. I whole heartedly agree that there is a limit to what one could/ should do in public view. Your statement regarding abandoned or junk cars, etc. within a city limit or neighborhood certainly would affect property values and therefore damaging to others. But something like building a car, aircraft, boat, or other constructive like hobby does not fall into this category as long as the property in public view is maintained and not used as a junk yard. This type of abuse of the political system is indicative of how liberal our society has become in regards to the bleeding hearts or Democrats who are, in my opinion the root cause of why our society has declined so markedly in moral and ethical conviction. They must all be members of the ACLU or any of these other organizations who think everybody owes them something and will file a law suit just because they can. I also have been on the enforcement side but there is a Reasonable Man's rule that must apply. The problem is, there are very few reasonable men in the political arena. I ordinarily abstain from this type of discussion on the net as it is a waste of my time. However, this particular type of abuse of the system irritates the fire out of me. This is not a flame toward you Colin, just my opinion. Now Back to KR stuff, we have better things to do. Regards, Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca Sent via the WebMail system at jrl-engineering.com
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG
I don't even mind the junk cars as long as they are kept straightened up in a line with the grass kept down around them. I have rebuilt a lot of "JUNK" items to like new condition including cars, tractors, etc and if there are laws requiring those items to be destroyed, then none of the rebuilds would have been possible. I would bet that if I were to restore an antique car, use it until I drove it 150,000 miles, then I still wouldn't have created as much polution as 1 new car being manufactured. Kevin. -Original Message- From: r...@jrl-engineering.com To: kr...@mylist.net Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:12 AM Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG I like your point of view. Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com -- Original Message -- From: "Steve Glover" Reply-To: KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:34:15 -0700 Well Colin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is that laws such as this is where we all have had our rights or civil liberties encroached upon. Where are my rights when I cannot utilize my own property, that I have paid for, for my entertainment or enjoyment as long as I do not cause damage or harm to anyone. One could argue they are "damaged" from having to view my plane. In that case I could give a rats and they should close the curtain or get a life. I whole heartedly agree that there is a limit to what one could/ should do in public view. Your statement regarding abandoned or junk cars, etc. within a city limit or neighborhood certainly would affect property values and therefore damaging to others. But something like building a car, aircraft, boat, or other constructive like hobby does not fall into this category as long as the property in public view is maintained and not used as a junk yard. This type of abuse of the political system is indicative of how liberal our society has become in regards to the bleeding hearts or Democrats who are, in my opinion the root cause of why our society has declined so markedly in moral and ethical conviction. They must all be members of the ACLU or any of these other organizations who think everybody owes them something and will file a law suit just because they can. I also have been on the enforcement side but there is a Reasonable Man's rule that must apply. The problem is, there are very few reasonable men in the political arena. I ordinarily abstain from this type of discussion on the net as it is a waste of my time. However, this particular type of abuse of the system irritates the fire out of me. This is not a flame toward you Colin, just my opinion. Now Back to KR stuff, we have better things to do. Regards, Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca Sent via the WebMail system at jrl-engineering.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
GREAT! Ronald R. Eason Sr. President / CEO Ph: 816-468-4091 Fax: 816-468-5465 http://www.jrl-engineering.com Our Attitude Makes The Difference! -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dana Overall Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:27 AM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws The RV list has already contacted the EAA attorney who volunteered to work with the Jacksonville attorney drafting the final ordinance. Seems the RV'er had some pull. More to follow. BTW, a member of the RV list in Jacksonville already contacted a representative from the local gov. who relayed to him Brian's name and the "problems" that brought about this action. The metal crowd is up in arms also and have moved to have something happen. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html do not archive _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG
Is there any chance we could keep the political statements off the list... I'm betting not everyone on the list is a non-democrat. Some might even have a "bleeding heart." Your note implies, no it states so directly, that such memebers are the root cause of societies problems. I really respect this list and all the incredibly valuable insights related to KR building that it offers. But that type of generalized comment offends me. Given the member size and diversity of the list, I suspect I may not be the only one so affected. Thanks. Tony Pickering Moscow Idaho > ---Original Message--- > From: R. Eason Sr. > Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG > Sent: 19 Jul '06 16:12 > > I like your point of view. > > Ronald R. Eason Sr. > Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office > J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. > 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. > Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Steve Glover" > Reply-To: KRnet > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:34:15 -0700 > > Well Colin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is that > laws such as this is where we all have had our rights or civil liberties > encroached upon. Where are my rights when I cannot utilize my own > property, that I have paid for, for my entertainment or enjoyment as > long as I do not cause damage or harm to anyone. One could argue they > are "damaged" from having to view my plane. In that case I could give a > rats and they should close the curtain or get a life. I whole heartedly > agree that there is a limit to what one could/ should do in public view. > Your statement regarding abandoned or junk cars, etc. within a city > limit or neighborhood certainly would affect property values and > therefore damaging to others. But something like building a car, > aircraft, boat, or other constructive like hobby does not fall into this > category as long as the property in public view is maintained and not > used as a junk yard. > > This type of abuse of the political system is indicative of how liberal > our society has become in regards to the bleeding hearts or Democrats > who are, in my opinion the root cause of why our society has declined so > markedly in moral and ethical conviction. They must all be members of > the ACLU or any of these other organizations who think everybody owes > them something and will file a law suit just because they can. I also > have been on the enforcement side but there is a Reasonable Man's rule > that must apply. The problem is, there are very few reasonable men in > the political arena. > > I ordinarily abstain from this type of discussion on the net as it is a > waste of my time. However, this particular type of abuse of the system > irritates the fire out of me. > > This is not a flame toward you Colin, just my opinion. Now Back to KR > stuff, we have better things to do. > > Regards, > > Steve Glover > KR-2 N902G > AJO, Ca > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via the WebMail system at jrl-engineering.com > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
I think I agree with the thread that you cannot create an eyesore that may affect values but that it does cross the line when you have an enclosed project. I currently have 2 VW's that do not work (a 63 and a 67) in my garage and it is nobody's business but mine what I do in my garage. In my neighborhood if you have a boat or an RV it must be behind a solid fence (I guess that would apply to planes as well). It cannot even be in your own driveway. That's just the way it was set up and I guess I agree with it. In other words, we should support Brian to a degree of enjoyment of his own personal property, but not the wholesale elimination of private property rights or the elimination of zoning regulations. The best way would be to email the mayor and city council. Just my thoughts on this serious matter. Ray New Orleans --- Mark Langford wrote: > I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last > post. They are talking > about not doing any maintenance or building an > aircraft EVEN INSIDE AN > ENCLOSED BUILDING, LIKE INSIDE YOUR GARAGE! That > doesn't bother anybody? > You can argue all day that some guy may be making > all kinds of annoying > noises, but there are "disturbing the peace" > ordinances that should take > care of that. What you're doing behind closed doors > is your business, > unless of course it's illegal (and we're talking > child abuse/molestation, > etc), and now building a homebuilt is illegal as > well. That doesn't bother > you guys? > > Mark Langford, Harvest, AL > see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG
If you have been around awhile, you will find stuff like this always comes up at some point. I am sure all do not necessarily fall into that generalized category (unless you happen to be a politician). And as I said, it is just my opinion If you would like to continue this discussion, you are welcome to e-mail off list. Regards, Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of michaela Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:22 PM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG Is there any chance we could keep the political statements off the list... I'm betting not everyone on the list is a non-democrat. Some might even have a "bleeding heart." Your note implies, no it states so directly, that such memebers are the root cause of societies problems. I really respect this list and all the incredibly valuable insights related to KR building that it offers. But that type of generalized comment offends me. Given the member size and diversity of the list, I suspect I may not be the only one so affected. Thanks. Tony Pickering Moscow Idaho > ---Original Message--- > From: R. Eason Sr. > Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG > Sent: 19 Jul '06 16:12 > > I like your point of view. > > Ronald R. Eason Sr. > Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office > J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. > 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. > Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Steve Glover" > Reply-To: KRnet > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:34:15 -0700 > > Well Colin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is that > laws such as this is where we all have had our rights or civil > liberties encroached upon. Where are my rights when I cannot utilize > my own property, that I have paid for, for my entertainment or > enjoyment as long as I do not cause damage or harm to anyone. One > could argue they are "damaged" from having to view my plane. In that > case I could give a rats and they should close the curtain or get a > life. I whole heartedly agree that there is a limit to what one > could/ should do in public view. Your statement regarding abandoned > or junk cars, etc. within a city limit or neighborhood certainly > would affect property values and therefore damaging to others. But > something like building a car, aircraft, boat, or other constructive > like hobby does not fall into this category as long as the property > in public view is maintained and not used as a junk yard. > > This type of abuse of the political system is indicative of how > liberal our society has become in regards to the bleeding hearts or > Democrats who are, in my opinion the root cause of why our society > has declined so markedly in moral and ethical conviction. They must > all be members of the ACLU or any of these other organizations who > think everybody owes them something and will file a law suit just > because they can. I also have been on the enforcement side but there > is a Reasonable Man's rule that must apply. The problem is, there are > very few reasonable men in the political arena. > > I ordinarily abstain from this type of discussion on the net as it is > a waste of my time. However, this particular type of abuse of the > system irritates the fire out of me. > > This is not a flame toward you Colin, just my opinion. Now Back to KR > stuff, we have better things to do. > > Regards, > > Steve Glover > KR-2 N902G > AJO, Ca > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via the WebMail system at jrl-engineering.com > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG
I agree with you Steve and anyone who has been around awhile there in California where there is a bimbo politician on ever corner would be savy to those conditions. Sincerely Jim On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:32:03 -0700 "Steve Glover" writes: > If you have been around awhile, you will find stuff like this always > comes up at some point. I am sure all do not necessarily fall into > that > generalized category (unless you happen to be a politician). And as > I > said, it is just my opinion If you would like to continue this > discussion, you are welcome to e-mail off list. > > Regards, > > Steve Glover > KR-2 N902G > AJO, Ca > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On > Behalf Of michaela > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:22 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG > > > Is there any chance we could keep the political statements off the > list... I'm betting not everyone on the list is a non-democrat. > Some > might even have a "bleeding heart." Your note implies, no it states > so > directly, that such memebers are the root cause of societies > problems. I > really respect this list and all the incredibly valuable insights > related to KR building that it offers. But that type of generalized > comment offends me. Given the member size and diversity of the list, > I > suspect I may not be the only one so affected. > > Thanks. > > Tony Pickering > Moscow Idaho > > > > > ---Original Message--- > > From: R. Eason Sr. > > Subject: RE: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG > > Sent: 19 Jul '06 16:12 > > > > I like your point of view. > > > > Ronald R. Eason Sr. > > Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office > > J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. > > 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. > > Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com > > > > > > -- Original Message -- > > From: "Steve Glover" > > Reply-To: KRnet > > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:34:15 -0700 > > > > Well Colin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is > that > > > laws such as this is where we all have had our rights or civil > > liberties encroached upon. Where are my rights when I cannot > utilize > > > my own property, that I have paid for, for my entertainment or > > enjoyment as long as I do not cause damage or harm to > anyone. One > > could argue they are "damaged" from having to view my plane. In > that > > > case I could give a rats and they should close the curtain or get > a > > life. I whole heartedly agree that there is a limit to what one > > > could/ should do in public view. Your statement regarding > abandoned > > or junk cars, etc. within a city limit or neighborhood certainly > > > would affect property values and therefore damaging to > others. But > > something like building a car, aircraft, boat, or other > constructive > > like hobby does not fall into this category as long as the > property > > in public view is maintained and not used as a junk yard. > > > > This type of abuse of the political system is indicative of how > > liberal our society has become in regards to the bleeding hearts > or > > Democrats who are, in my opinion the root cause of why our > society > > has declined so markedly in moral and ethical conviction. They > must > > all be members of the ACLU or any of these other organizations > who > > think everybody owes them something and will file a law suit just > > > because they can. I also have been on the enforcement side but > there > > > is a Reasonable Man's rule that must apply. The problem is, there > are > > > very few reasonable men in the political arena. > > > > I ordinarily abstain from this type of discussion on the net as > it is > > > a waste of my time. However, this particular type of abuse of the > > > system irritates the fire out of me. > > > > This is not a flame toward you Colin, just my opinion. Now Back > to KR > > > stuff, we have better things to do. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Glover > > KR-2 N902G > > AJO, Ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws
Netters Unfortunately I have to agree with the local jurisdiction on their decision to prohibit the repair and construction of cars, trucks, and now light aircraft outside of a building and the storage of such items in side or backyards, regardless of its intended use. In cities like Jacksonville, where it is already a severe problem that vehicles of all kinds find "themselves" first parked and then later, parted out as "project" cars or trucks, to open up the possibility of someone finding a loop hole to exploit, so that now they can have a auto repair shop in their back yard, or driveway, due to undefined "projects" present, would end up a massive problem for all residential property owners. My old subdivision was governed by the City of Sanford Florida. They had a city ordinance that no repairs to any automobile, truck, or "vehicle" including trailers, could be accomplished in the open in your driveway. Any repairs desired could be accomplished inside an enclosed garage or out building, to include project car restorations, and specifically my airplane in my single car garage. They knew about my plane, and openly stated that as long as it was never stored outside, or that repairs and construction were conducted inside the garage, that I was fine and within the law. They KNEW it would or could take years to finish; that was okay. By prohibiting the storage of parts of anything, planes or cars, or machines, in the opne side or back yards, or in the driveways of residential homes is nothing more than legislation that protects home owner values. When it is inside your garage, out of sight from your neighbor, and they want to interfere, it is a violation of your civil rights. When your neighbor can see it, and can find it an eye sore, even if it is not one, then you are encroaching on your neighbor's rights. You might not like him storing a sign promoting Gay Rights propped against the side of his house, facing yours. To him, he might find your partially assembled plane peeking out from under a cover, just as offensive. WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND that many people DO NOT share our passion for flying, nor do they understand our commitment to its enjoyment. We already have too many pilots who beligerently assert their right to fly, even though they have been asked to conduct such operations with noise abatement, but disregard this request saying it is their right to fly! Years later the airport is shut down because there is only several hundred pilot votes to remain open, compared to many thousands non-pilot votes to close the airport. Like it or not, these are our neighbors. We have to find a way to compromise, or solos like the one that just happened are going to gradually become less and less frequent. They will just lock us out of their airspace, and then who knows what next Sorry about the length; but I can see both sides, and I have BEEN on the enforcement side. For every situation that has merit, there are 10 that are just blatent violations. We have to work with administrations for the common good, just like we work with the FAA, though we don't always agree with them Colin Rainey N96TA Ormond Beach, FL
KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws LONG
Well Colin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is that laws such as this is where we all have had our rights or civil liberties encroached upon. Where are my rights when I cannot utilize my own property, that I have paid for, for my entertainment or enjoyment as long as I do not cause damage or harm to anyone. One could argue they are "damaged" from having to view my plane. In that case I could give a rats and they should close the curtain or get a life. I whole heartedly agree that there is a limit to what one could/ should do in public view. Your statement regarding abandoned or junk cars, etc. within a city limit or neighborhood certainly would affect property values and therefore damaging to others. But something like building a car, aircraft, boat, or other constructive like hobby does not fall into this category as long as the property in public view is maintained and not used as a junk yard. This type of abuse of the political system is indicative of how liberal our society has become in regards to the bleeding hearts or Democrats who are, in my opinion the root cause of why our society has declined so markedly in moral and ethical conviction. They must all be members of the ACLU or any of these other organizations who think everybody owes them something and will file a law suit just because they can. I also have been on the enforcement side but there is a Reasonable Man's rule that must apply. The problem is, there are very few reasonable men in the political arena. I ordinarily abstain from this type of discussion on the net as it is a waste of my time. However, this particular type of abuse of the system irritates the fire out of me. This is not a flame toward you Colin, just my opinion. Now Back to KR stuff, we have better things to do. Regards, Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of beverlyrai...@bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:12 PM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR> Anti junk/disabled anything laws Netters Unfortunately I have to agree with the local jurisdiction on their decision to prohibit the repair and construction of cars, trucks, and now light aircraft outside of a building and the storage of such items in side or backyards, regardless of its intended use. In cities like Jacksonville, where it is already a severe problem that vehicles of all kinds find "themselves" first parked and then later, parted out as "project" cars or trucks, to open up the possibility of someone finding a loop hole to exploit, so that now they can have a auto repair shop in their back yard, or driveway, due to undefined "projects" present, would end up a massive problem for all residential property owners. My old subdivision was governed by the City of Sanford Florida. They had a city ordinance that no repairs to any automobile, truck, or "vehicle" including trailers, could be accomplished in the open in your driveway. Any repairs desired could be accomplished inside an enclosed garage or out building, to include project car restorations, and specifically my airplane in my single car garage. They knew about my plane, and openly stated that as long as it was never stored outside, or that repairs and construction were conducted inside the garage, that I was fine and within the law. They KNEW it would or could take years to finish; that was okay. By prohibiting the storage of parts of anything, planes or cars, or machines, in the opne side or back yards, or in the driveways of residential homes is nothing more than legislation that protects home owner values. When it is inside your garage, out of sight from your neighbor, and they want to interfere, it is a violation of your civil rights. When your neighbor can see it, and can find it an eye sore, even if it is not one, then you are encroaching on your neighbor's rights. You might not like him storing a sign promoting Gay Rights propped against the side of his house, facing yours. To him, he might find your partially assembled plane peeking out from under a cover, just as offensive. WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND that many people DO NOT share our passion for flying, nor do they understand our commitment to its enjoyment. We already have too many pilots who beligerently assert their right to fly, even though they have been asked to conduct such operations with noise abatement, but disregard this request saying it is their right to fly! Years later the airport is shut down because there is only several hundred pilot votes to remain open, compared to many thousands non-pilot votes to close the airport. Like it or not, these are our neighbors. We have to find a way to compromise, or solos like the one that just happened are going to gradually become less and less frequent. They will just lock us out of their airspace, and then who knows what next Sorry abo
