Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers
On 10/17/11 12:21 AM, robinl...@socal.rr.com wrote: There's also a kind of metal nail that's fairly thick/long (by nail standards) and has a second ridge below the flat head. That makes a decent neck unless you're using really long lengths of thick thread (the neck isn't all that big). Most beginners probably don't need more than a yard or two on each bobbin, so that should be fine. You just need to find out the name of the nail to get. http://www.brockwhite.com/0p14i4137c1016/scaffold-nails/ http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/Prime-Source-16DUP-Bright-Duplex-Head-Scaffold-Nails/155814/Cat/1427 They are called scaffold nails -- the double head is to make them easy to pull out. The largest size at the local hardware store is a tad small, but one might be able to order a pound of a larger size. They make good bobbins for coarse thread, but could do with being chucked into a lathe to clean and neaten the neck. (Of course, that would leave raw steel that reaches out for oxygen and humidity, and stains thread even before it rusts -- but one might rub it with wax or paint before removing it from the lathe.) Skewer-and-bead bobbins would be good because one can have the children make their own; it's fun even if one has no intention of ever making lace. I once obtained a bag of seconds of bone beads, which were a lot of fun to play with. I still have two skewer-and-bead single-point bamboo knitting needles that I use as shawl pins. -- Joy Beeson http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/ http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/ http://n3f.home.comcast.net/ -- Writers' Exchange http://www.debeeson.net/LakeCam/LakeCam.shtml#content west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A. where it's raining again. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Demise of suppliers
Chris wrote about teaching crafts to young people in schools. I don't know what the current situation is in the UK with the National Curriculum in either primary of secondary schools (I retired in 1997), but when I was teaching there was no time for recreational subjects. I'm not putting lacemaking down, but that's what it would have been considered as. I know the National Curriculum has been altered drastically since I retired, but I'm sure there are still many restrictions on what can be included. While I was teaching(before I even looked at lacemaking), one of the maths teachers joined the community education classes in lacemaking being run in the evenings and suggested that perhaps it was something they could consider in the art department. The response was that it wasn't creative enough because the patterns were set - there was no scope for individual creativity! Admittedly I don't think the modern and creative lace using different fibres and techniques we see now were common then. The internet was only just coming on stream in schools, and there certainly weren't the number of lace web sites there are now. If the art teachers bothered to see what's being achieved, I'm sure they could include it in the curriculum. I don't know whether it's still the case, but students of school age (under 16) wouldn't have been able to join the evening lace classes because it was considered that they had enough to do coping with their school curriculum unless the school's head teacher signed to say it was relevant to their schoolwork and that the schoolwork wouldn't suffer. Slightly ridiculous as they could join the scouts, guides, go to dance classes, music classes or anything else outside school time but not anything run under community education. There is no need for it to be considered craft now. That term seems to lower people's view of it. Call it creative or art and you attract a whole different group. Silly really. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers - young lace makers
We are lucky to have a bit different situation in this part of Germany (Eastern Germany, former GDR). Here is a long tradition of professional lace making. Lace making was an offically recognized craft. Lace teacher were paid by the state and gave lessons not only in schools, but as well in clubs nearly for free. So young people had a good chance to learn lace making. Now, this was finished in 1989 - no schooling at the university, no apprentice training, because they could no longer earn money by making lace. Bu the tradition is still alive. Many parents want their children learn making lace and in nearly every household you find a pillow and a grandma or aunt, who can show it to children. So we have clubs and after school workshops also for children. This is a very special situation and we see, that we are losing the next generation against TV, computer and higher requirements of school. What we did as a local supplier, 15 years ago, was to install a childrens lace contest. They get a theme every year and are asked to make their own pattern. Most of them have a teacher who helps them working it. We have defined four groups: 7 to 10, 11 to 14, 15 to 18 years + group work. Every child gets a memory bobbin with inscription, a document and the first ten of every group a price (from money to voucher). We have a jury of three experienced teacher (teaching lace making and children). There are nearly 100 children taking part every year (not only from our area, but also from Western Germany, Spain, Belgium, Russia) and the prize award ceremony is a big thing, because all parents, siblings, friends are taking part. The works are exhibited in december, some of them are going to another place. All of his is very stressfull for us and nothing we can actually earn money with, but we believe it is an investment in the future. And it is great to see these children grow and develop their skills in the course of years. As I said, it is a sprecial situation and better than in many other countries, but I believe it is important to give children a chance and to encourage them. Gabriele http://www.kloeppelkiste.de - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers
Fantastic!! Is the fish you mention posted anywhere, so that those wishing to duplicate your success don't have to re-invent the wheel? Also, even at $1 a bobbin, it's not possible to send them home with a student who can't buy them on his/her own. Does anyone have an idea for homemade bobbins? Something that's quick to make, relatively sturdy? What are paper bobbins, are there other ideas out there? Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US, where we're in for another glorious day, if a bit cool. But it's October, and that's to be expected. -Original Message- From: Chris Brill-Packard cbpu...@yahoo.com Sent: Oct 15, 2011 8:22 PM To: Arachne Lace List email lace@arachne.com Cc: Arachne Moderator arachne.modera...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers  Yes, Jean the important question is young people taking up the craft â where are they? We had a successful lace demo on 9/25/2011, where 21 lace âfishâ where made by community members attending a Fall Fest.   Boys, girls and adults lined up to make their own lace âfishâ. Used colored threads, let them choose their own bead color for the eye, most finished in 15-20 minutes.  Siblings stood and watched and then made their own.  After watching their sibling do their fish, the next sibling was quicker. We have new lacers coming in November for beginning lessons â ages will vary. One person is a middle school teacher who plans on teaching bobbin lace to students during âstudy hallâ because the kids are asking to learn a hand craft.  As she laced her own fish, she felt that it was a craft to enhance math skills.  So instead of crocheting or knitting, she wants to learn bobbin lace to teach to her students.  So I will help her out with this endeavor.  This teacher stated that âHome Educationâ is coming back to the schoolsâ¦â¦whyâ¦.kids do not know how to cook which may be a reason behind our obesity levels due to fast food.  So the schools are looking at âHome Economicsâ again as a âlife skill classâ.   I do not have kids so I was not aware that âHome Ecâ is coming back.  The home education teachers are LOOKING for a HAND CRAFT to teach the students during the section on sewing.  So maybe we can approach teachers to ask what their needs are.  Maybe we can teach some teachers our craft to share with students and then once exposed, these students will join our groups and purchase those supplies.    Also, I was approached by a community college teacher stating that she was looking for a hand craft to teach as part of a back to basics for relaxation to counter the high tech world that students have these days.   I started lace making after seeing 8 bobbin lace pillows with 8 different types of lace in progress on the pillows at a âFiber Artsâ exhibit at a community college (1982).  My lace teacher found a community college arts teacher that became interested in her lace making techniques and invited her to exhibit during the 3 day show.  Maybe we can reach out and expose school and community college teachers to our âHand Craftâ?  Chris.in Cleveland, Ohio area where it is a very windy fall day! - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Demise of suppliers
Fellow Spiders, Well, now I am even more depressed. This week I got my email from Tracy about the end of The Lacemaker, but until catching up on my Arachne reading this morning I was unaware of Lacy Susan closing her doors. I hope the new owner will be able to continue without too much of a reduction of the stock. I read with interest all the discussion about the future of lacemaking and the ideas for recruiting new people, and I just thought I would add my 2 cents. I think the idea of expanding the demonstrating to other areas is a good one. I belong to an on-line quilting group and I couldn't help but notice over the years that both art quilts and crazy quilts are enjoying a big upswing in interest, and both employ a lot of lace. In my group, there was an increasing interest in the lace itself-- dying it, starching to create 3-D effects, and exploring different types of lace to embellish quilt projects. As interest picked up, a couple of members learned to tat, and then recruited more tatters by posting links to on-line tutorials and blogs about tatting. These people then made small motifs to use in their quilted projects. By posting the pictures of the finished projects, MORE people wanted to learn to tat to make their own embellishments. It seems to me, getting lacemakers to demonstrate at quilt shows and at fabric stores frequented by quilters would be a great way to find some new lacemakers in the quilting world. Earlier today, Lyn asked Also, even at $1 a bobbin, it's not possible to send them home with a student who can't buy them on his/her own. Does anyone have an idea for homemade bobbins? Something that's quick to make, relatively sturdy? What are paper bobbins, are there other ideas out there? I have just finished thinking about this because I recently volunteered to teach an on-line tutorial on beginning bobbin lace for the quilting message board. Every Friday, someone volunteers to teach a skill they have. It can be a small project, a new technique to accomplish a traditional pattern, a new skill, whatever. My class will span 2-3 Fridays and teach the basics of setting up, terminology, basic stitches, and a small easy project. Because the people interested have no background and don't know yet if they will like it enough to invest in nice pillows, bobbins, etc., I decided to have them make the bobbins and pillow. Though the class is not scheduled till January, there has been quite a bit of interest already, and many have expressed a desire to start making their supplies now. Pillows are easy, some insulation foam, felt, and a cotton cover. I looked around the internet and found instructions for making bobbins from a wood dowel, heavy wrapping paper, and pony beads. It is easy and inexpensive. Some people went strictly utilitarian using brown paper bags as their wrapping paper, some got really creative and used fancy scrapbooking paper and made their own color coordinated beads using polymer clay. They were beautiful! I also played around with the bead idea and came up with this fast, easy, and cheap bobbin: 3/16 inch wooden dowel--- 29 cents at craft store like Michael's 1 box wooden beads-- $3.99 at Walmart Cut dowel with craft knife in 4.5 inch lengths Glue 6 beads on one end of dowel for the handle Glue 1 bead on opposite end for head It took me about 10 minutes to cut and sand the dowel, and about 15 seconds to add the beads. I ended up with very attractive wooden bead bobbins that were very extremely easy and very reasonably priced. 2 boxes of beads will make 28 bobbins, So for under $10 you can have 14 pairs which will handle quite a few beginner edgings, samplers, or bookmarks. From the feedback I have gotten so far, I think we have 2 challenges when it comes to recruiting more lacemakers who in turn can support more suppliers. About half the people I spoke with in the group didn't know what bobbin lace was. The other half knew about it, but the price of a start up kit was too high for them when they had no idea if they would enjoy doing it. So first we must be seen and noticed to generate the interest, second we must present inexpensive alternatives to make sure people realize that they can try it out without much expense. Then if they like it and want to continue they may wish to invest in more substantial purchases, but if they don't like it, they aren't out $75- $150 for a beginners kit. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers
lynrbai...@desupernet.net wrote: Also, even at $1 a bobbin, it's not possible to send them home with a student who can't buy them on his/her own. Does anyone have an idea for homemade bobbins? Something that's quick to make, relatively sturdy? What are paper bobbins, are there other ideas out there? Paper bobbins are made by rolling paper tightly to make a cylinder. More paper (longer strip) is used for the body and head and less (shorter strip) paper for the neck. It's very inexpensive because you can use magazines or even junk mail. But they're not all that quick/easy. A faster/easier bobbin (not as inexpensive) is a bamboo skewer (for grilling pieces of meat/vegetables) with biggish wood or plastic beads glued on--one for a head and several for the body, with the bare skewer as the neck. Some people have made bobbins by whittling chopsticks. They can be gotten cheap, but those may need a good sanding to prevent splinters. There's also a kind of metal nail that's fairly thick/long (by nail standards) and has a second ridge below the flat head. That makes a decent neck unless you're using really long lengths of thick thread (the neck isn't all that big). Most beginners probably don't need more than a yard or two on each bobbin, so that should be fine. You just need to find out the name of the nail to get. For very short-term, you can use old-fashioned clothes pegs, the cylindrical kind, with two parallel legs, not the spring-loaded clips. Because there's no proper neck, they're not as nice as the other options, but they work. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers
There is also a very sad byproduct of the age of lacemakers increasing which we have seen in the military modeling world. If those coming in new to the craft are older with more disposible income they bring with them purchasing power. I believe that suppliers should make a profit - it is a thank you to them for finding the things that I need and supplying them. However, in the modeling world we have seen the cost of supplies start to increase year on year faster than inflation. I understand that if you are only producing a small amount of something it costs more per unit than if you make thousands but a model which cost £10 5 years ago now costs £40. Why? Because people will pay for it. We went to EuroMilitare (equivilant of the Xmas lace maker fair that used to be at the NEC for size and venue). There was fantastic model on display that was limited to 250 and only available at the show. I was in love and really wanted it. Hubby went to find out the cost and it was more than we were intending spending on the whole day. Hubby wanted to still buy it but I wouldn't because it was inflated and I wasn't going to play. My bocoytt was a complete waste of time because they sold out in a matter of hours. But I made my point to myself. I am worried that if the money is there prices will rocket. However, I don't think that many of our suppliers have caught up with inflation. The first pair of bone bobbins I bought in 1989 were £16 each and this is not far off what we often pay today. Books are more reasonable and far more available today. I am paying the same today for books as I did for similar ones over 20 years ago. In fact, many of the books I bought then are still available and cost the same now as then. But I do still worry. Kind Regards Liz Baker thelace...@btinternet.com My chronicle of my bobbins can be found at my website: http://thelacebee.weebly.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers
 Yes, Jean the important question is young people taking up the craft â where are they? We had a successful lace demo on 9/25/2011, where 21 lace âfishâ where made by community members attending a Fall Fest.   Boys, girls and adults lined up to make their own lace âfishâ. Used colored threads, let them choose their own bead color for the eye, most finished in 15-20 minutes.  Siblings stood and watched and then made their own.  After watching their sibling do their fish, the next sibling was quicker. We have new lacers coming in November for beginning lessons â ages will vary. One person is a middle school teacher who plans on teaching bobbin lace to students during âstudy hallâ because the kids are asking to learn a hand craft.  As she laced her own fish, she felt that it was a craft to enhance math skills.  So instead of crocheting or knitting, she wants to learn bobbin lace to teach to her students.  So I will help her out with this endeavor.  This teacher stated that âHome Educationâ is coming back to the schoolsâ¦â¦whyâ¦.kids do not know how to cook which may be a reason behind our obesity levels due to fast food.  So the schools are looking at âHome Economicsâ again as a âlife skill classâ.   I do not have kids so I was not aware that âHome Ecâ is coming back.  The home education teachers are LOOKING for a HAND CRAFT to teach the students during the section on sewing.  So maybe we can approach teachers to ask what their needs are.  Maybe we can teach some teachers our craft to share with students and then once exposed, these students will join our groups and purchase those supplies.    Also, I was approached by a community college teacher stating that she was looking for a hand craft to teach as part of a back to basics for relaxation to counter the high tech world that students have these days.   I started lace making after seeing 8 bobbin lace pillows with 8 different types of lace in progress on the pillows at a âFiber Artsâ exhibit at a community college (1982).  My lace teacher found a community college arts teacher that became interested in her lace making techniques and invited her to exhibit during the 3 day show.  Maybe we can reach out and expose school and community college teachers to our âHand Craftâ?  Chris.in Cleveland, Ohio area where it is a very windy fall day!  On 14 Oct 2011, at 08:07, Jean Nathan wrote: One of the problems is that once you've got your basic pillow, sufficient bobbins and (usually too many) books (for you to complete everything in it you want to), really the only thing you NEED is thread. And that won't keep a supplier in business. They rely, not only on newbies, but those of us who already have the basic supplies WANTING extra pillows, patterns, books, bobbins and other equipment .. Then there's the question are there sufficient young people taking up the craft and buying the supplies to replace those of us in our dotage who will eventually give up because we can no longer cope or go to join other lacemakers on a cloud. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK Chris Brill-Packard - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Demise of suppliers
One of the problems is that once you've got your basic pillow, sufficient bobbins and (usually too many) books (for you to complete everything in it you want to), really the only thing you NEED is thread. And that won't keep a supplier in business. They rely, not only on newbies, but those of us who already have the basic supplies WANTING extra pillows, patterns, books, bobbins and other equipment .. The there's the question are there sufficient young people taking up the craft and buying the supplies to replace those of us in our dotage who will eventually give up because we can no longer cope or go to join other lacemakers on a cloud. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers
Haha Jean I love the bit about the only thing you need... Reminds me of the start of my daughters shoe fetish 3 years old and saw red leather fur lined boots in a local shop. The conversation went along the lines of I want those boots... I want never gets... says I. madam waited till Grandma came Can we go to shops Grandma?, of course Grandma says yes... Madam shows Grandma the boots Grandma I NEED those boots to keep my toes nice and warm, guess who bought the boots (BTW, Kyra is now 25 and owns around 200 pairs of boots or shoes...) Now are you sure you got the Need and Want the right way round??? Sue in East Yorks On 14 Oct 2011, at 08:07, Jean Nathan wrote: One of the problems is that once you've got your basic pillow, sufficient bobbins and (usually too many) books (for you to complete everything in it you want to), really the only thing you NEED is thread. And that won't keep a supplier in business. They rely, not only on newbies, but those of us who already have the basic supplies WANTING extra pillows, patterns, books, bobbins and other equipment .. The there's the question are there sufficient young people taking up the craft and buying the supplies to replace those of us in our dotage who will eventually give up because we can no longer cope or go to join other lacemakers on a cloud. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Demise of suppliers
On 14 Oct 2011, at 08:07, Jean Nathan wrote: Then there's the question are there sufficient young people taking up the craft and buying the supplies to replace those of us in our dotage who will eventually give up because we can no longer cope or go to join other lacemakers on a cloud. Personally I think that that is the main issue, and I think that it's probably true world wide and not just here in UK, or US where this discussion began. The older ones stay with the craft until they are either unable to continue but there are very few new, younger lacemakers taking their places. Back in the 70s when I started learning BL we were glad to get hold of any sort of bobbins or thread and there were very few books published. Then the boom years came in the 80s and 90s with suppliers and bobbin makers galore, but gradually many of them decided they had had enough. Some of the businesses were sold as going concerns but but usually when that happened the new owners were not able to carry so much stock, and so the choices became more limited. Also the traders, like their customers, are ageing. I know that there are several UK suppliers who are near, if not past, pensionable age. With the current economic woes of the world and the fact that getting up early, driving for a couple of hours, shifting a van load of wares into a hall, greeting customers and then shifting most of it back to the van and driving home again knowing that the stock all has to be put away again for mail orders to be dealt with is physically demanding, and it wouldn't surprise me if the UK were to loose some of the long established lacemaking supplies business in the next year or so. I don't know what the answer to this is, although it is true that adult education has also declined significantly over the last few years which means that it is harder for a beginner to find the tuition they need and so goes on to learn some other craft that is more accessible. My only regret after the years I spent teaching in adult education is that not a single one of my students went on to become lace teachers themselves. Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
