RE: [lace] Lace precursers
Thanks for the words of encouragement - I think it is the right way to do it and from your experience I'm on the right track Regards Liz Beecher All - I've been emailing from my work email as I've been on nights and it gives me something to do, however, as of monday I start a new job and have moved my arachne list membership to one of my other emails mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - feel free to email me there My last night will be Thursday and so any emails after 1am Friday morning should go to one or other of the alternative addresses. -Original Message- From: Jean Barrett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 August 2003 09:15 To: Liz Beecher Cc: 'apcdlally'; lace arachne Subject: Re: [lace] Lace precursers Hi Liz, Keep on teaching just the way you are. No one will ever drop out of your classes through boredom which has happened I know. When I first started learning in about 1960, I was taught the first stitches, cloth half and whole stitch, plus cloth stitch diamonds and triangles on a straight pricking the first lesson. The next week I was started on a torchon hankie edging, just fans and triangles but I learned the basic moves very thoroughly and never looked back. Bookmarks were unheard of then so it was hankies or table linen. Jean in Cleveland U.K. On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 01:17 AM, Liz Beecher wrote: _ This message has been checked for all known viruses on behalf of Vivista by MessageLabs. http://www.messagelabs.com or Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vivista formerly Securicor Information Systems for further information http://www.vivista.co.uk ** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the individuals named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you should be aware that any dissemination, distribution, forwarding or other duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. The views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual author and not necessarily those of Vivista Limited. Prior to taking any action based upon this e-mail message you should seek appropriate confirmation of its authenticity. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the e-mail reply facility. ** _ This message has been checked for all known viruses on behalf of Vivista by MessageLabs. http://www.messagelabs.com or Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vivista formerly Securicor Information Systems for further information http://www.vivista.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace precursers
Hi Liz, Keep on teaching just the way you are. No one will ever drop out of your classes through boredom which has happened I know. When I first started learning in about 1960, I was taught the first stitches, cloth half and whole stitch, plus cloth stitch diamonds and triangles on a straight pricking the first lesson. The next week I was started on a torchon hankie edging, just fans and triangles but I learned the basic moves very thoroughly and never looked back. Bookmarks were unheard of then so it was hankies or table linen. Jean in Cleveland U.K. On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 01:17 AM, Liz Beecher wrote: - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace precursers
Hi Liz and Annette and Spiders! I agree with you completely! The only reason for doing Flanders or Paris before Binche is to take it in baby steps. But is is simply not necessary to work yards (or even inches) of baby steps before moving on. It makes sense to practice particular snowflakes if you haven't done them before, prior to incorporating them into a large piece. But the fact is, that if you are working continuous lace, the first two or three inches can be your practice and can be cut off later. I has made my worm bandages and a couple of simple Torchon bookmarks when I decided I needed to start some Bucks edgings to use on the Christening Gowns for two grandsons who were on their way. I began the Bucks two months after starting lacemaking, and made four yards of edging in the next nine months. But I must tell you, if I were to make that lace again now, it would look a great deal different! But that is fine, because of all the lace I've made, those first two pieces are the most significant and have the most treasured homes of all! Clay - Original Message - From: Liz Beecher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'apcdlally' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lace arachne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 8:17 PM Subject: RE: [lace] Lace precursers Annette Don't get me going on this one - ok I will. When I finally found a lace teacher she informed the class that before we could make anything we had to make worm bandages - Ok, so she didn't call them that but that is what they were - we spent 3 weeks just making long thin lengths of whole stich or half stich. I found a small beds pattern I wanted to make and was told that it would be 'ages, simply ages' before I could attempt it. So, I made torchon samplers for 6 months. Then I got fed up and went out and bought a few good books and instead of making a small piece of beds I taught myself honiton. So, 6 months after never having made lace before I was on honiton. OK, so some people just don't master certain types of lace but for those who can then they should be allowed to try everthing. Since then, I have been taught how to train people, as part of my job, speciallising in training people with learning difficulties. So now, I know that is what is really important that people see that they are creating something that has meaning - this gives a point to their learning - so I always start off with the Springett snake, when teaching, because when they have done that they know how to whole stitch and have something more interesting than a worm bandage. And when I'm asked - can I do this - I always say, Ok, lets look at the pattern and see what you know and what we need to practice or learn first and get them to identify the elements of the pattern - this gives them buyin to the learning. If they have the techniques then off they go - if not then I get them to practice the stitch or element that they don't have yet. Works for me. Regards Liz Beecher -Original Message- From: apcdlally [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 August 2003 00:45 To: lace arachne Subject: [lace] Lace precursers On Sunday, August 3, 2003 Bridget wrote: However I must persevere, as I have booked for a Binche course in February, and everybody says you need to grasp Flanders first. OK, Now you've really got me going! Surely, in the past all these different laces, being regional variations on a theme, were taught without the lace student having ANY knowledge of lace at all. Laceworkers in one village/lace school or whatever would not have been exposed to other laces first. It is quite possible for anyone to learn any lace without learning other laces first. I make and teach Honiton and I am getting SO frustrated that other lacemakers here will tell prospective students, both at demonstrations and at guild meetings, (and often in front of me) that before they can learn Honiton they must first do Torchon, Beds and Bucks. Not so. If you live in Devon - do you learn Torchon before you learn Honiton? of course you don't. I thought that this was a problem peculiar to Australia and to Honiton but apparently it happens in other parts of the world and with other laces too. So Bridget, go for it, do what you want to do and not what everybody says Just enjoy your lace. PS. Are there any of the Devon lace teachers on this list? I could do with some advice. Please respond off list. Thanks. Annette in Melbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ This message has been checked for all known viruses on behalf of Vivista by MessageLabs. http://www.messagelabs.com or Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vivista formerly Securicor Information Systems for further information http://www.vivista.co.uk
Re: [lace] Lace precursers
At 09:45 AM 8/4/2003 +1000, you wrote: It is quite possible for anyone to learn any lace without learning other laces first. This is also my opinion. However, I must say that sometimes having previous experience with other laces may make the learning curve a bit easier on some of the more difficult laces. I took a workshop on Binche several years ago, and still have never done Flanders. I must admit that my teacher frowned at me when I admitted to this, but I did OK with Binche. The teacher had to show me the Flanders stitch since I didn't know it, but otherwise I could follow her instructions. Now I must admit to working some snowflakes on my own ahead of the class, just to be sure that I could do them correctly. Four colors of thread were used so the thread paths could be tracked better. If the colors went out of sequence, then I goofed somewhere and had to re-do it. Thus I had no fear of 4-pair ground stitches when I started a Binche pattern. Someone once told me that the Flanders knowledge was to give experience in 4-pair stitches before doing Binche. I can see where the ring pair and worker switching techniques would also help with confidence in a new venture. I recommend having some removable arrows (from an office supply store) to mark the location of the work on the diagram---use several, in fact. I didn't want to write on my only copy of the diagram and cobbled some markers using scotch tape which I changed to arrows as soon as I got home. We have the good fortune and privilege of having many lace types available to us. Now, since I just got a new lace pillow in the mail, I think I'll initiate it with a pattern of Peniche Lace. Happy lacing, Alice in Oregon - July had no rain. Hoping for a shower soon. Oregon Country Lacemakers Arachne Secret Pal Administrator Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace precursers
Okay Alice! Since the list is so quiet, I'm going to ask you to tell us about your new pillow! I love vicarious thrills!! And also - tell me about Peniche lace - is it a Spanish lace? Clay - Original Message - From: alice howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [lace] Lace precursers At 09:45 AM 8/4/2003 +1000, you wrote: It is quite possible for anyone to learn any lace without learning other laces first. This is also my opinion. However, I must say that sometimes having previous experience with other laces may make the learning curve a bit easier on some of the more difficult laces. I took a workshop on Binche several years ago, and still have never done Flanders. I must admit that my teacher frowned at me when I admitted to this, but I did OK with Binche. The teacher had to show me the Flanders stitch since I didn't know it, but otherwise I could follow her instructions. Now I must admit to working some snowflakes on my own ahead of the class, just to be sure that I could do them correctly. Four colors of thread were used so the thread paths could be tracked better. If the colors went out of sequence, then I goofed somewhere and had to re-do it. Thus I had no fear of 4-pair ground stitches when I started a Binche pattern. Someone once told me that the Flanders knowledge was to give experience in 4-pair stitches before doing Binche. I can see where the ring pair and worker switching techniques would also help with confidence in a new venture. I recommend having some removable arrows (from an office supply store) to mark the location of the work on the diagram---use several, in fact. I didn't want to write on my only copy of the diagram and cobbled some markers using scotch tape which I changed to arrows as soon as I got home. We have the good fortune and privilege of having many lace types available to us. Now, since I just got a new lace pillow in the mail, I think I'll initiate it with a pattern of Peniche Lace. Happy lacing, Alice in Oregon - July had no rain. Hoping for a shower soon. Oregon Country Lacemakers Arachne Secret Pal Administrator Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Lace precursers
On Sunday, August 3, 2003 Bridget wrote: However I must persevere, as I have booked for a Binche course in February, and everybody says you need to grasp Flanders first. OK, Now you've really got me going! Surely, in the past all these different laces, being regional variations on a theme, were taught without the lace student having ANY knowledge of lace at all. Laceworkers in one village/lace school or whatever would not have been exposed to other laces first. It is quite possible for anyone to learn any lace without learning other laces first. I make and teach Honiton and I am getting SO frustrated that other lacemakers here will tell prospective students, both at demonstrations and at guild meetings, (and often in front of me) that before they can learn Honiton they must first do Torchon, Beds and Bucks. Not so. If you live in Devon - do you learn Torchon before you learn Honiton? of course you don't. I thought that this was a problem peculiar to Australia and to Honiton but apparently it happens in other parts of the world and with other laces too. So Bridget, go for it, do what you want to do and not what everybody says Just enjoy your lace. PS. Are there any of the Devon lace teachers on this list? I could do with some advice. Please respond off list. Thanks. Annette in Melbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Lace precursers
Annette Don't get me going on this one - ok I will. When I finally found a lace teacher she informed the class that before we could make anything we had to make worm bandages - Ok, so she didn't call them that but that is what they were - we spent 3 weeks just making long thin lengths of whole stich or half stich. I found a small beds pattern I wanted to make and was told that it would be 'ages, simply ages' before I could attempt it. So, I made torchon samplers for 6 months. Then I got fed up and went out and bought a few good books and instead of making a small piece of beds I taught myself honiton. So, 6 months after never having made lace before I was on honiton. OK, so some people just don't master certain types of lace but for those who can then they should be allowed to try everthing. Since then, I have been taught how to train people, as part of my job, speciallising in training people with learning difficulties. So now, I know that is what is really important that people see that they are creating something that has meaning - this gives a point to their learning - so I always start off with the Springett snake, when teaching, because when they have done that they know how to whole stitch and have something more interesting than a worm bandage. And when I'm asked - can I do this - I always say, Ok, lets look at the pattern and see what you know and what we need to practice or learn first and get them to identify the elements of the pattern - this gives them buyin to the learning. If they have the techniques then off they go - if not then I get them to practice the stitch or element that they don't have yet. Works for me. Regards Liz Beecher -Original Message- From: apcdlally [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 August 2003 00:45 To: lace arachne Subject: [lace] Lace precursers On Sunday, August 3, 2003 Bridget wrote: However I must persevere, as I have booked for a Binche course in February, and everybody says you need to grasp Flanders first. OK, Now you've really got me going! Surely, in the past all these different laces, being regional variations on a theme, were taught without the lace student having ANY knowledge of lace at all. Laceworkers in one village/lace school or whatever would not have been exposed to other laces first. It is quite possible for anyone to learn any lace without learning other laces first. I make and teach Honiton and I am getting SO frustrated that other lacemakers here will tell prospective students, both at demonstrations and at guild meetings, (and often in front of me) that before they can learn Honiton they must first do Torchon, Beds and Bucks. Not so. If you live in Devon - do you learn Torchon before you learn Honiton? of course you don't. I thought that this was a problem peculiar to Australia and to Honiton but apparently it happens in other parts of the world and with other laces too. So Bridget, go for it, do what you want to do and not what everybody says Just enjoy your lace. PS. Are there any of the Devon lace teachers on this list? I could do with some advice. Please respond off list. Thanks. Annette in Melbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ This message has been checked for all known viruses on behalf of Vivista by MessageLabs. http://www.messagelabs.com or Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vivista formerly Securicor Information Systems for further information http://www.vivista.co.uk ** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the individuals named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you should be aware that any dissemination, distribution, forwarding or other duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. The views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual author and not necessarily those of Vivista Limited. Prior to taking any action based upon this e-mail message you should seek appropriate confirmation of its authenticity. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the e-mail reply facility. ** _ This message has been checked for all known viruses on behalf of Vivista by MessageLabs. http://www.messagelabs.com or Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vivista formerly Securicor Information Systems for further information http://www.vivista.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
