Re: LI Cancer Drugs Face Long Road From Mice to Men
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 18:31:42 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For the media to report a "cure for cancer" as it did, is just as much a hoax (deliberate deception) as Piltdown Man. Ron ( The Disgrace to His Profession) HI Ron, Did you read the media stories on this? Did you read the NY Times story, which seems to be the center of the controversy? I don't think even the Times stated that this was a cure for cancer. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks and Solutions :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kaye, Hiya Kaysie, Your wish is my command. :) You've got your work cut out for you, though. Ed was much closer to being straightened out than I am. G Bill On Wed, 06 May 1998 14:42:47 -0400 Kaye [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kaye [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey BillyJ... Does this mean attitude adjustments should now be directed your way? Boy... I just DID get Ed straightened out... geez. My offer still stands... if you need me to do anything... like shut up or sumpin'.. just lemme know. :) K _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Viagra Falls?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 14:20:10 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-05-06 13:24:27 EDT, you write: I think that any trickle down associated with the Viagara product is a bad sign and indicates one should call the doctor immediately! :) Bill Only if it's blue, Bill. Of course there are those blinding headaches mentioned in the list of side effects, so... Interesting article in today's WashPost talking about "Viagra Divorce" -- similar in some ways to what they call Prozac Divorce -- wives who are fairly content with what they've got and don't really want some aging stud monkey in their bedchambers. Doc HI Doc, Call me Mr. Blue. :) IMO, marriages or relationships that depend upon sex as the sole reason for existing aren't strong enough to withstand many problems. But what do I know? ;) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Executive Privilege
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 19:30:29 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Clinton Said Ready To Appeal WASHINGTON (AP) - A decision has been made to appeal following a judge's refusal to block key legal questioning of White House aides, according to a Clinton confidant. A White House legal team met to discuss the battle over executive privilege. Earlier, President Clinton had said his claim of executive privilege in the Monica Lewinsky case was ``quite different'' from the landmark battle in the Watergate scandal over Richard Nixon's White House tapes. Of course he will appeal, so as to tie up the process another 6 months. Here he plans to appeal and previously denied that he invoked executive privilege...hmmm. Ron Hi Ron, Your bias against Clinton seems to cause you to misstate the facts. Clinton never denied invoking executive privilege. He never acknowledged invoking it. Big difference. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Cancer Drugs Face Long Road From Mice to Men
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, I have no quarrel with you. I do with your semantics but that is a small point. You do not make personal attacks like Mac and Bill when you have no logic or reason to back you up. I don't think you would call anyone a liar like they have even when you know someone is lying. :-} I never called you a liar. But I'd have a tad more respect for you if you were merely a liar. Whatever needs you have to feed your ego seems to require the posting of ridiculous and outrageous statements to elicit a strong response from many people followed by your back pedalling and denials, all the while boring people with long winded anecdotes that have nothing to do with what is being discussed. But I will be the first to acknowledge your right to post whatever you choose to post. Others can evaluate, decide and respond as they choose also. I realize this group is a bit tamer than what you encounter on the net news groups, but I think they make themselves understood quite clearly. As you've said, you certainly have the right to make a fool of yourself. The Constitution guarantees it! Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Cancer Drugs Face Long Road From Mice to Men
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 21:08:46 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-05-06 17:15:20 EDT, you write: But I DO think they should fast track these things and even give people who only have six months to live the opportunity to take the drug in spite of the fact it has not passed through the NDA process. They could be part of the Phase I clinical studies. By the time these things move through the beaurocracy it's too late for the people who don't have the time to wait for the NDA approval. I agree, and often that's what's done. In this case, as I understand it, they still need to make enough of the drug to begin human clinical trials. And that takes time. Doc Hi Doc, That's true and it is one thing to synthesize a small amount needed for animal studies and another to develop production even to pilot plant levels. What did they say...a year to get to the point for Phase I studies? Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Cancer Drugs Face Long Road From Mice to Men
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: The only way this could have been correctly labeled a hoax on the part of the researchers is if the research itself had not been done, had not been done as reported, and/or had not yielded the results reported. There is no evidence that any of those "if" statements are true. Ergo, no hoax The only way it could -- even stretching the language to its limits and beyond -- be labeled a hoax on the part of the media is if they had made up the story, misquoted the researchers, misstated the methodology or misstated the results. There is no evidence that any of those statements are true either. IMO what we have here is an interesting and promising development that has unfortunately been reported in the popular media in such a way that those unfamiliar with research did not understand it. The very first reports we read and heard all had the "two years until human testing" caveat attached. I'm sure people missed that, and it's not surprising that they did. But it was there. Language has parameters; it is not infinitely elastic. And "hoax" means deliberately deluding. Doc Hi Doc, Thank you. I think you've summarized the truth of this issue exactly. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Cancer Drugs Face Long Road From Mice to Men
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, I think this was the American Cancer Society posting a release from the National Cancer Institute. Bill On Wed, 06 May 1998 15:46:54 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: I am only familiar with the American Cancer Society. I don't know anything about the National one. I'm sorry. The address at the end of this post, after yours, is for the American Cancer Society. Sue Hi Terry: Yes the American Cancer Society did say something. Here is a copy of my post from yesterday. Sue I had read your report, Sue, and did not separate American Cancer Society from National Cancer Institute. I was going to look up NCI to see what it is. Can you tell me if is just an arm of the American Cancer Society or what? http://www.cancer.org/bottomnews.html -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI A Cruel Hoax - Guess not.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Ron, I guess this article proves once and for all that this is not a hoax, cruel or otherwise. The British researchers confirm that the research drugs do, indeed, show promise in the curing of some cancers. Bill On Wed, 6 May 1998 11:11:54 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: UK to test new cancer drug on humans By Patricia Reaney LONDON (Reuters) - British doctors said Wednesday they expect to begin human trials of a new cancer drug that cuts off blood supply to tumors ahead of U.S. counterparts who are working on a similar approach. Dr David Secher, director of drug development for the Cancer Research Campaign, said the charity hopes to test Combretastatin A4 on humans in November. "Our animal studies have been sufficiently encouraging for us to go into clinical studies. I think it is a very interesting area," Secher told Reuters. Unlike conventional treatments that target the cancer cells themselves, Combretastatin works by selectively damaging blood vessels that supply the cells with the oxygen and nutrients they need to survive and grow. It "starves" the cancer in a similar way to angiostatin and endostatin, two drugs which attracted worldwide interest this week after tests in the United States showed they completely wiped out tumors in mice. Combretastatin is a mad-made derivative of the extract of the African Bush Willow. It was discovered by Professor Bob Pettit, of Arizona State University, which has licensed it to Oxigene, a Swedish medical technology company. News of the U.S. trials of angiostatin and endostatin has sent shares soaring in EntreMed Inc, which has rights to those drugs, despite warnings that they might not produce the same results in humans. EntreMed said it would be at least a year before the drug combination could be tested on humans. The British researchers plan to begin Phase 1 trials for safety and to set the correct dose of Combretastatin in November at the Mount Vernon Hospital in Middlesex, southern England. Dr Dai Chaplin, who will conduct these trials, said the way Combretastatin damages the endothelial cells, which line the blood vessels in the tumor, may be quite different from the U.S. drug combination, but the end result is basically the same. Chaplin found in animal trials a single dose of Combretastatin could kill off up to 95 percent of solid tumor cells by starving them of their blood supply. "As more than 90 percent of cancers are solid tumors, or lumps, we are very excited about its potential as a powerful new weapon to treat cancer patients. It also opens the door for further development of other drugs working on the same principle," Chaplin added. The two-drug U.S. approach of starving cancerous cells was pioneered by Dr Judah Folkman of Boston Children's Hospital in Massachusetts. "It's a very exciting way to go. It's too early to know whether it is the right way to go but it is one of a number of new and exciting approaches," said Secher. Chaplin described the latest drugs as a whole new battlefield against cancer. "Our data and the data coming from Judah's lab in the U.S. is showing that these approaches can work. You're really targeting the blood vessels rather than the tumor cells and I'm sure there is going to be a lot more research which will prove you can do that," he said. To succeed in politics, it is often necessary to rise above your principles. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: Bill's badge; A cruel hoax?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 21:40:44 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've done with this discussion. I've stated my opinions, and see no need to restate them interminably. Next topic? Doc Hi Doc, Where's my badge? I hope that wasn't a cruel hoax. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Grand Jury secrecy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 14:20:12 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-05-06 13:26:21 EDT, you write: Not for a Grand Juror. They are bound by law to keep everything confidential forever. Bil Sounds good, but I suspect it's humanly impossible. Does anyone ever really keep everything confidential forever? Doc HI Doc, There's a big difference between what the law dictates and what people actually do. A ten minute drive on the interstate will illustrate that fact quite effectively. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Passive Smoker To Make Legal History
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, Wasn't there a similar class action suit brought by former flight attendants who worked during the days when smoking was allowed on airplanes? Bill On Wed, 06 May 1998 11:48:55 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Steve: The family of a nurse here in the States just tried this. They lost. Sue Passive Smoker To Make Legal History _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Cancer Drugs Face Long Road From Mice to Men
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 21:08:51 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-05-06 17:50:54 EDT, you write: But the press got a hold of this story and when they printed it either left off the fact that it won't be tested in humans for a while or put it at the very end of the story. That fact was reported on network TV and in the WashPost in the very first reports, Sue. I don't know about other papers, but I do know about this one. Doc Hi Doc, Another point is that cancer patients, more than anyone else, are aware of the long and frustrating process required to move a candidate drug from animal testing through the clinical trials to the marketplace. The real cruelty is the disease itself. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Daimler/Chrysler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: You dog, you've got all the hot stocks these days!!! And here I was just happy to be holding Bristol Myers Squibb. I think you should buy a round of drinks! Bill On Thu, 7 May 1998 12:46:29 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now this is big time news! I wondered why my Chrysler stock jumped 10 points yesterday, now I know. Rin Chrysler, Daimler-Benz Agree to Merge _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: Bill's badge; A cruel hoax?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Steve, Not to worry, old chap, I have a feeling that upon being pinned I won't be inclined to stay in one place for very long. Oooh, I get the chills just thinking about it. Her lap will still be available to you. :) Bill On Thu, 7 May 1998 20:49:59 +0100 Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey Bill you haven't got your eye on my seat in Doc's lap have you, we might just end up starting a flame war over that onelol. Steve : ) _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: Laws - what good are they?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 7 May 1998 15:03:53 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-05-07 11:28:47 EDT, you write: There's a big difference between what the law dictates and what people actually do. A ten minute drive on the interstate will illustrate that fact quite effectively. Bill There you go, Bill, messing with my perfectly good delusional system! Next you'll be telling me that people don't always pay taxes because they love the country, or something. Doc HI Doc, Gasp! I usually just call the IRS and ask them how much they need. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Nobel Scientist Denies Cancer Claim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, Thanks for posting this. I found the following excerpt interesting: Watson, in a letter to the editor published in today's Times, called the experiments ``the most exciting cancer research of my lifetime.'' But he also cautioned that ``the history of cancer research is littered with promised treatments that raised people's hopes, only for them to be dashed when the treatments were put to the test in humans.'' This tells me that if a Nobel Scientist calls these experiments the most exciting cancer research of his lifetime, then there IS something to these candidate compounds that makes them more promising that the many other drugs that have made their way into clinical studies. And it DOES qualify as a significant breakthrough, with respect to the results of the animal testing. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks and Solutions :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 09:56:36 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-05-06 02:23:31 EDT, you write: Hi Kathy: Does that mean he has to wear *The Uniform*, and only *The Uniform*? I hope. BG Hey Doc...another pinning ceremony. LOL I'm ready and willing! Just hope he's up for it. Doc No problem, Doc. Just got my Viagara prescription filled. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks and Solutions :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 06 May 1998 08:37:07 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm ready and willing! Just hope he's up for it. Doc No problem, Doc. Just got my Viagara prescription filled. :) Bill Well don't swallow till I get there. They say the stuff acts fast but wears off just as fast. Doc Hi Doc: I heard today that it can make you see everything in a blue haze too. Better than "rose colored glasses", I guess. :) Sue Damn, and here I thought I had downloaded a new colored background for my juno notes. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Little Rock Grand Jury
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, The real question is why release ANY of the tapes? It's not up to the public to indict anyone. It's not up to the public to convict anyone. Doesn't releasing the tapes poison any jury pool they could hope to draw from if there IS an indictment? I heard that a member of Burton's committee has resigned. Apparently he was the one who was pushing for the release of the tapes over the objections of several other committee members. Bill On Wed, 06 May 1998 09:06:18 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: 40 Million and nothing. :( Now this Dan Burton has made an ass out of himself. They played a lot of the tapes on Nightline last night, and IMO they exonerated Hillary pretty much. There are some calling for Burtons resignation now. I can't figure out what the guy was thinking when he put only excerpts out. Didn't he think that someone would start yelling and the whole thing would be released? As for McDougal, that was a complete waste. She made it quite clear that she wouldn't talk before she was ever called again. Sue _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks and Solutions :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 11:23:42 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-05-06 11:05:21 EDT, you write: I'm ready and willing! Just hope he's up for it. Doc No problem, Doc. Just got my Viagara prescription filled. :) Bill Well don't swallow till I get there. They say the stuff acts fast but wears off just as fast. Doc HI Doc, No problem...I've found that if you sew a couple of them just under the skin that they last a lot longer. But I hope you're not taking Greyhound! :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks and Solutions :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 6 May 1998 08:34:59 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well don't swallow till I get there. They say the stuff acts fast but wears off just as fast. Doc One hour to act, up to 6 hours to resolve. How long does it take from DC to MO? Should have plenty of time. Did Bill's insurance carrier deem this a medical necessity? Ron HI Ron, In my case they did. Something about it being a national disgrace to deprive the women of this country from enjoying a national treasure. But I don't understand that insurance lingo. I just cash the checks. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks and Solutions :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kathy, It's a pleasure to have the opportunity to help keep this great group of people together and enjoying the interesting discussions that are taking place. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Viagara Falls?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, I think that any trickle down associated with the Viagara product is a bad sign and indicates one should call the doctor immediately! :) Bill On Tue, 05 May 1998 19:18:50 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Is this what they mean by trickle down theory...that this one will even help the guy and gal on the street? BEG Sue _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: The Mother Ship Returns Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Vi, No problem. I have a lot of fun here, as you know. ;) Bill On Tue, 5 May 1998 19:27:29 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Freakin' Bill, You know d--- well I didn't see the planet! I saw the mother ship take off on its way back to the mother planet or some other starry destination. Glad to hear you are just kidding around! Be my guest, anytuime. :) Vi _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Grand Jury secrecy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Not for a Grand Juror. They are bound by law to keep everything confidential forever. Bill On Tue, 05 May 1998 19:32:02 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Aren't they disbanded now? If so can't they talk to anyone that they want to talk to once the case is over and done, like an ordinary jury. Sue _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks and Solutions :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, You know me, willing to do whatever is required for the law list. :) I've been training for a year for this position. Give it your best shot, Doc. Bill On Tue, 05 May 1998 23:30:34 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy: Does that mean he has to wear *The Uniform*, and only *The Uniform*? I hope. BG Hey Doc...another pinning ceremony. LOL Sue _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Little Rock Grand Jury
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 06 May 1998 13:17:38 -0400 moonshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moonshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, The real question is why release ANY of the tapes? It's not up to the public to indict anyone. It's not up to the public to convict anyone. Doesn't releasing the tapes poison any jury pool they could hope to draw from if there IS an indictment? I heard that a member of Burton's committee has resigned. Apparently he was the one who was pushing for the release of the tapes over the objections of several other committee members. Bill Afternoon Bill, It should have been Burton who resigned. This guy has been offered up as a sacrifice for a decision made by Burton. He admittedly went through the tapes and selected what would be released and how. From my perspective this was far more egregious than what clinton is being pursued for. WAKE UP PEOPLE There is danger in the air and you sit and act like you just don't care. ...Mac HI Mac, Yeah, with all the hysteria surrounding people wanting Clinton to resign you'd think that Burton would be on the hot seat for this one. Actually, whether he resigns or not he has already caused tremendous damage to the GOP and a lot of Republicans are incensed about it. It should be interesting to watch what happens to Burton's career. BTW, Burton is also the guy who still swears that Vince Foster was murdered, in spite of the results of four separate investigations concluding he committed suicide. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI A Very Cruel Hoax
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 04 May 1998 19:05:46 -0400 moonshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moonshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seems to me the doctors on this list might have something to say. The purported cancer cure ain't. Not yet anyway. Evenin', No one stated it is a cure. The doctor herself has been working with these two drugs for over a decade and through her research found positive results in the lab. Nowhere does she state she has found a cure. Your subject title is way off base and not supported by the facts. The real hoax, IMO, is your attempt to appear to a have grasp on reality and fact. ...Mac ...Mac Hi Mac, For what it's worth I think you and Ron are absolutely correct on this one. The newspaper stories I've been reading clearly present the reality of the situation with respect to this issue. A lot of time and additional research must be conducted before they will be close to determining that this drug will be effective in curing some types of cancer in humans. But the breakthrough in the animal testing is certainly a tremendous achievement and is deserving of a lot of medial coverage. I wish I had bought Entremed the day before this was announced and then sold it when it hit $80 a share. Timing is everything. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI A Very Cruel Hoax
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 4 May 1998 20:14:53 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moonshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seems to me the doctors on this list might have something to say. The purported cancer cure ain't. Not yet anyway. Evenin', No one stated it is a cure. The doctor herself has been working with these two drugs for over a decade and through her research found positive results in the lab. Nowhere does she state she has found a cure. Your subject title is way off base and not supported by the facts. The real hoax, IMO, is your attempt to appear to a have grasp on reality and fact. ...Mac Uh huh. If you have a mouse with cancer, Mac, you are in luck. If you are a human with cancer you better hold on for a while. One of the people that used the c-word was you, Mac. --- Doctors warn against euphoria on cancer drugs 03:55 p.m May 04, 1998 Eastern By Maggie Fox WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Doctors said Monday they were excited about a new way to attack cancer but warned against premature euphoria over drugs that may not work in people. The two drugs, angiostatin and endostatin, have completely wiped out tumors in mice. A feature story about the work published in the New York Times Sunday sent stock in EntreMed Inc., which has rights to the drugs, soaring. Shares in Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., which has an agreement with EntreMed, also shot up. ``The data are very impressive and compelling. But it is still mouse data. We need clinical data in humans before we can anoint them as miracle drugs,'' said Dr. Jim Pluda, an oncologist at the National Cancer Institute (NCI) who is overseeing research in this area. ``There have been a number of compounds in the past that have cured mice and did not translate into efficacy in human clinical trials. The field of oncology is littered with the bodies of agents that were the next cure for cancer.'' EntreMed Chief Financial Officer Nelson Campbell agreed, and declined to use the word ``cure.'' ``We're in preclinical studies and the proteins are not in humans yet. We do not use the 'c-word','' he said. He said it would be at least a year before the drug combination was tested in humans. Nonetheless the NCI has made their development a top priority. The drugs work to stop the growth of blood vessels that tumors need to grow and flourish. This process of growing arteries is called angiogenesis, so the drugs are known as angiogenesis inhibitors, or anti-angiogenesis drugs. Pluda compared the approach to trying to eliminate dandelions from a lawn. ``Normally we keep whacking off the top and the dandelion keeps growing back,'' he said in a telephone interview. ``But if you kill the roots of the dandelion, the whole plant dies. We are killing the mechanism by which the tumor cells get nutrition.'' There are few side-effects, unlike the standard treatments that use toxic drugs or X-rays. The drugs are naturally occurring agents. ``Angiostatin is actually a portion of a normal circulating blood product called plasminogen. Endostatin is a small fragment of a type of collagen called collagen 18 that is normally found in the body but localized around blood vessel cells,'' Pluda said. The two-drug approach was first reported in the science journal Nature in November 1997. It was developed by Dr. Judah Folkman, of Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts. But even Folkman remains cautious. '`If you have cancer and you are a mouse, we can take care of you,'' he told the New York Times. And he said it could be years before the drugs are ready to be tested in humans. The drugs may not be suitable for use in children or pregnant women. Angiogenesis is very important for the growth of unborn babies and children. ``That is an issue,'' Pluda said. Stocks in Rockville, Maryland-based EntreMed more than quadrupled in value on Monday. In early afternoon trading the stock the stock was up around 46 15/16 at 59 compared with Friday's close at 12 1/16. EntreMed is working with Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. to develop angiostatin. Options on Bristol-Myers also were active as the stock rallied to a new record high, but prices later settled back to around 110 at midday.Campbell said the extraordinary rise was due to the market catching up on news about the drugs. ``This is valid recognition of some outstanding data,'' Campbell said in a telephone interview. ``But this is not necessarily new data, so it's the market playing catch-up.'' Campbell said EntreMed is in talks with ``several other major pharmaceutical companies'' for a deal to develop endostatin. Best, Terry Isn't this an excellent example of the media showing the factual side of this issue and not touting this as some miracle
LI Re: Simpson's Sexuality
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Vi, Psst...latent homosexuality ain't the answer. VBG I've seen people theorizing that the Holocaust never happened. Yes, I think there IS a reason to get freaked out over certain types of "theorizing". If people don't get freaked out by some kinds of theorizing then those theories tend to be accepted as fact by others. And that can be a very bad thing for our society. Freakin' Bill G On Mon, 4 May 1998 19:52:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Sue, Good common sense answer! It may or may not entirely hit the mark, but is there any reason to get freaked out by theorizing as to possibie causes? (You didn't, BTW :)).. And to those who say they don't give a s---, two young people paid with their lives for Simpson's kind of insane coercion. It would be helpful to understand the dynamics underpinning such acts. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You Wrote: I would say that a lot of it may have to do with the fact that he has never had to take responsibility for any and everything that he has ever done, with people falling all over themselves to please and placate him. He has always called the shots. He has always controlled everyone and everything around him.. . . _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI A Very Promising Drug
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Afternoon Bill, Everything that I've seen reported so far has been positive although cautious. Which, like any medical breakthrough, needs to be researched more. To call it a hoax at this juncture is just plain wrong. If any of us could forsee the stock market we would all be fat cats!! It's a gamble and hat's off to those who owned the stock. ...Mac Hi Mac, I did get a side benefit from this as I own some Bristol Myers/Squibb stock and they have a piece of Entremed. BMYSQ was up about 9 points yesterday before finally closing up 3 1/2. I'll take it, considering the times I've been on the other side of the pendulum. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI A Very Promising Drug
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Tue, 5 May 1998 11:29:02 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually it closed at something like $57, but still that's way over the $12 it was going for earlier. One of our commentators remarked that it's a wonder no one thought of the "cut off the blood supply" approach before, and when I started to think about that it rings true. They've been doing it (experimentally? Ron?) for uterine fibroids and it seems to work well there, so why not for other solid tumors? I think it will be several years, maybe as few as five or as many as ten, before this is ready to be marketed if it does prove workable. But a hoax it is NOT! Cec Hi Doc, I would suspect the big difficulty is in being selective about cutting off the blood supply and not affecting other areas of the body. But I don't know enough about the processes to begin to guess what all the major factors are. I bet Entremed backs off quite a bit in the stock price department the next several days. I think I'd be taking my profit out right now if I had been smart enough to invest before the announcement. Of course, I had never heard of them before the announcement and it's tough to invest in a company I've never heard of. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI It is not a hoax--American Cancer Society Report
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, Yeah, but have they spent over 20 years in RD research??? LOL! Bill On Tue, 05 May 1998 09:15:35 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.cancer.org/bottomnews.html New drug combination eliminates cancer in mice Two new drugs are found to kill cancer in mice - human trials given top priority A combination of two new drugs has been proven to completely destroy cancers in laboratory mice. Now the question is: Will it work in humans? Nearly three decades of research have gone into this discovery, hailed as "the single most exciting thing on the horizon" of cancer treatment by Dr. Richard Klausner, National Cancer Institute Director. Human studies of the two drugs, angiostatin and endostatin, are expected to begin within a year. Decades of research Nearly thirty years ago, Dr. Judah Folkman, now a Harvard Medical School professor, realized that growth and spread of cancers seemed to depend on their ability to cause formation of nearby blood vessels to bring nourishment to the cancer cells. Folkman called this process angiogenesis, from the Greek words angio for vessel, and genesis, for beginning. Without angiogenesis, cancers could still form but would not be able to grow larger that about 1/16 inch, and would not be able to spread to other parts of the body. Over the following years, Folkman and his colleagues working at Boston Children's Hospital slowly unraveled most of the details of how cancer cells secrete substances that promote angiogenesis. More recently, Folkman's team and several other groups of angiogenesis researchers have identified and begun preliminary testing of several drugs that slow or prevent angiogenesis. Several have shown very promising results in animal tests and early stages of clinical trials in cancer patients. The discovery of angiostatin and endostatin In 1991, Folkman and research trainee Dr. Michael O'Reilly began a search for substances naturally produced by the body that might inhibit angiogenesis. They discovered that plasminogen, an enzyme important in breaking up blood clots, naturally splits into fragments, one of which is a potent angiogenesis inhibitor. They called this substance angiostatin. Their team soon discovered an even more powerful angiogenesis inhibitor, endostatin, that is formed when a type of collagen breaks into fragments. Collagens are a group of related proteins that give strength to bones, tendons and the walls of blood vessels. The most recent and exciting finding from Folkman's research team is that combining angiostatin and endostatin causes mouse cancers to disappear without a trace, even when examined under a microscope. Balanced with caution The atmosphere of hope and excitement these breakthroughs have generated needs to be balanced with caution, warns Folkman. Several experimental treatments have been highly successful in animals but have proven to be of limited value to humans. "We have to be careful with expectations" said Folkman. Next step: Clinical Trials The next step is clinical trials, which are expected to begin within a year. "I am putting nothing on higher priority than getting this into clinical trials" said Klausner. Because clinical trials of angiostatin and endostatin are not yet underway, patients may consider clinical trials of other anti-angiogenesis drugs such as TNP-470, carboxyamidotriazole, anti-VEGF, or thalidomide, says the American Cancer Society. Information on these clinical trials is available from the National Cancer Institute (1-800-4-Cancer). In addition to anti-angiogenesis drugs, several other promising new treatments are also being tested in clinical trials. The American Cancer Society spends over 91 million dollars on cancer research each year, including several angiogenesis research projects. Dr. Folkman received an American Cancer Society grant from 1964-1966 to support his cancer research training, and was awarded the ACS Medal of Honor in 1993, the organization's highest award. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Simpson's Sexuality
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: ROTFLMAOYou got me, Vi. Very funnyI've not got tears streaming from my eyes. I think you win the sarcasm prize of the month with this one. Bill On Tue, 05 May 1998 11:32:02 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Yvonnhe, It was my pleasure. I enjoyed our discussion as far as it went. I's too bad there is so little tolerance of expression that is not politically correct here. Such attitudes stifle freedom of speech. Back to theories, football is said by some to encourage homosexual tendencies in males - the "men only" rule, close personal contact , and the buttocks grabbing, and crotch shifting and scratching of the players. Even some of the terminology is suggestive of this: "tight end," for example. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, it is justice" - Anon. You wrote Thank you for your support . . . + + _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Ron's Opinion
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Tue, 5 May 1998 11:20:19 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Doc, DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Honestly, sometimes I think you guys deserve each other! It makes me want to say, "All three of you, go to your room!" or something. The cancer "cure" is neither a cure nor a hoax. It is simply news of a new drug that has worked in one species and may work in another. No it's not. A huge hype of old news is not "simply news." When the stock of a small very speculative developer of the drug goes up like a roman candle on the news and even drags a blue chip like Bristol-Meyer in its wake, when a sensational weekend story in the "NY Times" about a long-term rd program becomes breaking news that creates television specials, this ain't "simply news." This was neither "old" news nor a hoax. As I read it, it was a major breakthrough. They do animal studies all the time on thousands of drugs. When something shows this kind of a result it is, indeed, big news. Testing of that "may" will not take place for awhile. That's all there is to that. Now, can we get back to facts and stop fiddling with personalities, please? Doc (who's much too old to waste time on flame wars) You mean you won't help decide who is the biggest liar? Maybe I can help you out. :-} I spent over 20 years in RD. I think I know something about hype of technology. If Mac and Bill think I am lying again so be it. That was actually my job. I don't understand how your work experience proves whether you are a liar or not. (Note that I'm not accusing you of being a liar) I thought you had told everyone you worked for the CIA for many years. Perhaps you're a lot older than I am. :) Ron's a medical doctor and he seems to agree that this is not a hoax, even though it is a long way from being a product approved for use in humans. Based on all the other information I've read I'm inclined to believe Ron and others who have concluded this is not a hoax. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Simpson's Sexuality
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: ROTFLMAOYou got me, Vi. Very funnyI've not got tears streaming from my eyes. Actually, your typed comments caused my tears to role. Or don't you believe in Freudian slips either? Your tears got a part in a play or a movie?? LOL...sure I believe in Freudian slips. Also believe in typos and honest mistakes. Have to go now. I'm late for football practice. ROTFLMAO!!! Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater grand jury dismissed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, The Grand Jury members have to be careful that they are not caught leaking information about what went on in the proceedings. It is against the law and a person could go to jail for leaking things. Of course, an anonymous source could make some good pocket change if he/she wanted to take a chance. Bill On Tue, 05 May 1998 13:58:13 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I bet they have a news conference on Dateline or Nightline, one of those shows. :) How much money did this thing cost us and what did we get out of it, is what I would like to know. Are we going to be told all that, I wonder. Sue Sue Hi Sue, How long do you think it will be before we read leaks coming from anonymous former Grand Jury members? G Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI New Trial for the list, locally tried
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Fri, 01 May 1998 12:58:19 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I knew someone sat on a mountain or something, just didn't know who. I wonder if that race track person thinks he is responsible for saving a life. :) If Oral Roberts was so religious and believed in everything he was saying why did he want to interrupt "God's" plan. I thought that these guys were in a hurry to see the other side. BTW, he must have gotten his million dollars, hugh? What did he do with it? Bet on a horse. TIC Sorry I couldn't resist. Sue HI Sue, Naw, he only gambles on sure things. :) As far as I know he eventually made his goal as there are still millions of gullible people willing to send in their hard earned money. Oral Roberts and his family are quite wealthy, you know. Of course, they had to sell the City of Faith hospital and the university is in big financial difficulty. But they do take care of their personal priorities. Oral is in failing health these days and his son Richard is running things. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, INteresting information coming out about the Hubbell tapes. That whole fiasco is ridiculous, IMO. And Burton has really made an ass out of himself. I haven't heard Bill Clinton's name being mentioned much with respect to Whitewater any more. Of course, they have found bigger fish to fry in DC with respect to BC. So they have concentrated the Little Rock inquiry on HC. I don't think Susan Carpenter McMillan has jumped ship. I think she was asked to walk the plank. That's the name of the game. You're a hot item until you can't produce anything of value any more and then you are dumped. Of course, one could question whether she ever offered anything of value. The smart advisor would have told her to drop her suit in the first place. Bill On Fri, 01 May 1998 12:11:18 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I put the Hubbal tapes on here that I heard last night. They are really something. I have noticed in all of this stuff that I hear, read, and find on the web about Whitewater that it is always Hillary that they are talking about. Never Clinton himself. Have you actually heard his name brought into any of it? I think I heard one of the talking heads on MSNBC say that the President had to be impeached before he could be indicted. So I think you are right about this. I was so glad to see Susan McMillian jump ship. She should have done that a long time ago if she really wanted to help her friend Paula, IMO. She was part of the reason that Paula didn't get much sympathy. I wonder if all the talk about them attending that WH dinner had anything to do with it, or if she just didn't want to be part of a "losing battle". One thing for sure, friendship amongst the Washington elite doesn't seem to mean much. :( Sue Hi Sue, I missed the press conference but I read about it. My question about the Grand Jury was because everyone is wondering whether Ken Starr will indict Hillary and I was thinking that if the Grand Jury hands down the indictments then Starr would not be the one doing it. I don't think a sitting President can be indicted until he has been impeached and convicted. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: Simpson's Sexuality
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Vi, Oh, you're more than welcome to speculate about anything. That is certainly your right. As I said, I fall into the "who gives a shit" group when it comes to anyone's sexual orientation. I find it irrelevant to the type of person they are and I can certainly find other hang ups that are more interesting to me. BG BTW, I've heard that the rumors about Simpson's father being a closet homosexual were also part of a mis-information campaign and have become an urban myth. I don't know if this is true or not, however. Like I said, I don't give a shit. :) I DID hear that Simpson may have latent Negro tendencies however, and I plan to investigate that one. Bill On Mon, 4 May 1998 10:23:55 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Bill, Just because a psychological condition cannot be "scientifically" measured does not mean that we discard it, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. As laymen, we are free to speculate and apply the knowledge left us concerning whatever some scientists have spent their entire lives studying and classifying. What was said here about Simpson's possibly homesexual tendencies was not said to "piss him off" It was mere speculation about what caused him to be so abusive of Nicole and what exactly led him to finally butcher her and her friend, Any time there is an effect, there is a cause. I always want to know the probable cause of a vicious murder.and to seek all possible explanations, even if they may seem a little out in left field.. Not that it had any bearing on Simpson's sexual orientation, but his dad was a closet homosexual until he left left OJ's mother to live a different lifestyle. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: Hi Bill, Just because a psychological condition cannot be scientifically measured does not mean that we throw out the baby with the bath water. We are free to speculate based on whatever some scientists have spent their entire lives studying and classifying. What was said here about Simpson's possibly homesexual tendencies was not said to "piss him off" It was mere speculation about what caused him to be so abusive of Nicole and what exactly led him to finally butcher her and her friend, Any time there is an effect, there is a cause. I always want to know the probable cause of a vicious murder.and to seek all possible explanations, even if they may seem a little out in left field.. Not that it had any bearing on Simpson's sexual orientation, but his dad was a closet homosexual until he left left OJ's mother to live a different lifestyle. As for who may have helped S. after the crimes, I nominate Jason. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: IMO, the only reason the subject of latent homosexuality ever came up with respect to Simpson is because people thought this would be a way to really get to him and cause him much anger and distress. Many experts in this field refer to this as psycho-babble. As you, Terry and others have pointed out, something like this is impossible to define, impossible to measure and impossible to prove under true scientific conditions. It also falls under the "who gives a shit" category. _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI New Trial for the list, locally tried
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, I think they're all a bunch of crooks. They get rich off of the contributions of poor people. If they were truly emissaries of God they would turn a lot of that money around and give it to worthy causes. Someone should tell the people sending the money that it IS allowable for them to deal directly with God on anything they need to. Bill On Mon, 04 May 1998 10:58:49 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: That is really sad too. I remember when the Tammy and what's his name thing was going on. There were old people who couldn't even afford to buy themselves decent food, sending money to them. I think that they still are. Tammy and what's his name both have new ministries. :( I never could get into this tel-evangelical thing, or even these new born again churches. But that is just me. If they help someone then good, but it just isn't my thing. Doesn't Oral Roberts have a big university? There is one of them that has big, huge crusade thing here in So California all the time. In fact his son is taking over for him. And he has a huge church here in Riverside. The cops have to direct traffic every Sunday around the church. Harvest Festival is the name of the thing. The guy with the glass church in Orange County is another one. He got into trouble on an airplane recently for attacking one of the flight attendants. A whole bunch of them came forward and said he was always really rude and crude all the time. :( He does have a beautiful church though, and the Christmas pageant he puts on is awesome. Sue HI Sue, Naw, he only gambles on sure things. :) As far as I know he eventually made his goal as there are still millions of gullible people willing to send in their hard earned money. Oral Roberts and his family are quite wealthy, you know. Of course, they had to sell the City of Faith hospital and the university is in big financial difficulty. But they do take care of their personal priorities. Oral is in failing health these days and his son Richard is running things. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI List Ownership update
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Kathy, Shoot, if that's all you need then I'll gladly volunteer. I read every note anyway so it won't be changing anything. Bill On Mon, 04 May 1998 11:39:40 -0400 Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all :) I have been talking to Esosoft what I wanted to be done can not be done. Basically for someone else to take over as LO of this list they would have to start a new list, and this one would have to be disbanded, that doesn't sound like a solution to me at all. I have had two offers of help, one from Len the other from Kaye. Here is the basics, I have no choice I have to do the admin, the LO is the only one that receives the admin messages the assistant doesn't, we tried to have it set up that way before where the assistant gets the messages also, but they weren't able to do it that way. So basically this is what it comes down to if this is satisfactory, I need someone who has the time to read all the messages, I don't right now. I'm a bit overextended and I have to take care of some other projects right now. I can do the admin right now, the admin mainly consist of subbing the new people and unsubs, handling the bounces and config files and a bunch of boring stuff, that makes the list run :) I can be available if a problem arises but I don't foresee that happening. I appreciate any help in this matter. I know it's asking a lot and it's not a fun job, the only reward is my undying gratitude and appreciation :) This is what Ed used to do, but he also has some things in real life that are occupying him and he can't continue in his position. I do want to thank Ed for the job he did, he did a lot behind the scenes for me that freed up my time for the list, I hope you know Ed you were a wonderful help to me and I'll never forget it :) If you ever need anything you let me know :) The one thing is for the person willing to take up this request, you must be able to remain in communication with me and I with you :) So please keep that in mind :) Thanks :) -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Thanks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Vi, Excellent reply! Thanks for clarifying your opinion on this one. I think you've hit on the key element and that is an interaction between people who are different and who can eliminate their prejudices by personally experiencing the good things that those people can do. Bill On Sat, 2 May 1998 02:00:03 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Bill, I believe I stated that racial relations had improved. I didn't claim they had been eliminated. Now I'm saying that there may never be total acceptance between women and men and between racial groups until a change of heart on either side comes about. Well, that does seem to be an about face; yet, I believe that both statements, while seemingly contradictory, are true! And this is how I see it. Americans are more accepting of more women in positions of leadership and of various ethnic groups on the job, in social settings and intra-marriage - possibly because they have become more accustomed to it through government Civil Rights enforcement, along with more exposure to closer personal contact which undermines the stereotyping of sexes and races , along with misperceptions concerning their characteristics. But that does not mean that whites have internalized the idea of equal status of women with men or of equal status of ethnic groups with whites. A genuine change of heart has to bring that about and the more differences there are between women and men and between whites and other ethnic groups in appearance, attitude and customs the harder it is to bring about a genuine change of heart. In part, this estrangement may be biologically determined. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: Wait a minute!!! Several months ago you were touting the accomplishment in this country that racism and racial discrimination had been eliminated from our society. Now you're saying that no progress has been made and it is useless to try to make any social changes or solve social problems.. . . _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Lawyer in Brawley case jailed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:47:41 -0400 moonshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moonshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E wrote: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A lawyer for one of the three defendants in the Tawana Brawley slander trial spent the night in jail as punishment for his third contempt of Evenin' Kathy, Only one night for his third violation! Gee..Susan McDougal spent how many months for one violationsomething is wrong with the BIG picture. ...Mac HI Mac, Nice to see you back! The bunker is a bit muddy but still impenetrable. As long as the sump pump continues to work we are still in business. G Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: D.P.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, I tend to think that there might be an explanation on the physical side rather than the environmental side. Chemical imbalance perhaps. Genetic flaw. Or maybe a combination of those and an environmental factor. Whatever it is, it certainly is not seen that often thank goodness. Of course, once is too often for this kind of stuff. Bill On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:11:37 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi BIll: Makes me wonder what in the world could go so wrong in the life of a child that young to make him do such things, and laugh about it afterwards. The parents didn't seem like the type who would abuse him, but then one never knows I guess. He did tell his mother that he wanted to hurt/kill someone a few days before it happened. Sue HI Sue, IMO, for anyone to do something like this they must have very serious mental problems. So I don't expect them to show the emotions that we might expect in a normal person. And his attorney is going to say anything that might garner some sympathy in the court of public opinion. So I don't put much weight onto his statements. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, The big issue is the kind of immunity she will get. I think Starr will gladly give her use immunity, but Ginsberg wants total immunity for her. This thing is going to drag out for a long time, IMO. Ginsberg can appeal the judge's ruling about the immunity issue and that will add several months to the time frame. Bill On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:32:27 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: She may have a room mate in that jail cell this time. Monica has been told that she will not get immunity. In fact when this whole thing is finished they may have to built a jail just for the people who won't testify. Did Monica's mother get immunity? Geraldo was on the Today show this morning and mentioned that she got it. Personally I think that Monica will tell all, and tell the truth. Sue HI Sue, Now you see the key point in this debate. The assumption that she refuses to testify in order to cover up for Clinton is not reasonable. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Wife wins $45 Million
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Yeah, that's always a problem. Of course that has nothing to do with the fairness of the system. It has to do with the system's inability to quickly enforce child support orders and to chase down guys who move to different states to avoid paying it. Bill On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:48:52 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: And unfortunately some of the time the woman has to force child support. Sue HI Sue, Oh, I agree that in most cases the woman's life style suffers after a divorce, especially when small children are involved. Simply because in most cases the earning power of the woman is less than the man's. Child support and/or alimony rarely makes up the difference. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kathy, No, I wasn't forgetting those reports. As I recall they never really said what Sydney and Justin said or thought. They reported the opinions of the experts with respect to custody issues and didn't even deal with what they said or thought about the murders. The judge even stated that the results of the civil trial were not relevant to the issue of custody. Most of the actual interviews are extremely sensitive and confidential in order to protect the children's interest. And much of what we assume to be true came from the infamous leaks as opposed to what was released during the custody hearings. I stand by my opinion that we've never really heard what Sydney and Justin think about the murder of their mother or whether they think their father is innocent or guilty. Bill On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:02:02 -0400 Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill :) I think your forgetting the custody trial when some of the reports from the psychiatrist were released and those reports did say what Sydney and Justin thought, since the Psychs had talked to the kids. William J. Foristal wrote: _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Ex-Miss America apologizes to first lady over alleged one-night
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, After she went public with her statement that everything was consensual and then apologized to the First Lady I doubt if Starr is interested in her any more, if he was interested in the first place. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:31:33 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Well they aren't going to get this one. She left the country and is in hiding until this thing is over. Even if they do find her, she said, in a phone call to Jane Pauley they can't subpoena her where she is anyway. Sue Hi Sue, Yeah, with friends like that who needs Republicans. BG This is a good example of something that has no relevance with respect to any evidence that Clinton broke the law. And is a good example of something that people SHOULD be embarrassed about releasing to the public or investigating in any way. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI New Trial for the list, locally tried
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Kathy, He has that bad combination of being a politician as well as a religious zealot. He is probably incapable of learning anything and certainly incapable of keeping his mouth shut. :) Bill On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:57:03 -0400 Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill :) Yes this was a new trial they were reporting it all day here in Virginia Beach, it was the third time Robertson was being sued for libel, today though he settled out of court for a undisclosed sum, so much for that trial! You would think after three times the man would learn to keep his mouth shut. William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kathy, Is this a repeat of an old trial? I saw a trial like this on Court TV a long time ago. When I still got Court TV. I remember Robertson testifying. Bill -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI 24,000mph UFO buzzes Britain. Daily Mail April 24th, 1998.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Steve, I think the stealth bomber and several experimental aircraft have a triangular shape. I've seen several of the stealth bombers around here on training flights. Bill On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:02:41 +0100 Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No its not a Harrier I think there called AV8b's over there this was very different and made no noise, its just a large flying triangle theres no other way to describe it. My aircraft recognition is very good as I was top of my class at it in Germany where we had the pleasure of lots of USAF aircraft visiting us. Steve _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Now you see the key point in this debate. The assumption that she refuses to testify in order to cover up for Clinton is not reasonable. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:22:25 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I never even thought of that, if he has evidence why does he even need her in the first place. Unless he needs to back up that evidence. But if that were the case then it would be her word against his. Sue HI Sue, Yep, and the Clinton haters can't stand it. If Starr had evidence to impeach McDougal's testimony then he wouldn't need her testimony, would he? He wants to force her to lie and implicate Clinton because he has NO evidence to do this on its own merits. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Vi, Well, gee Vi, I guess we should just throw up our hands then and say that no one can change things or solve the problems we have in society. Sort of like the "boys will be boys" argument, eh? Like the woman who was raped asking for it by going into a dangerous place or wearing provocative clothing. Sorry, I don't buy that line. Do you think the progress that has been made in civil rights and women's rights would have been made if everyone simply shrugged and said the problems were inevitable because of the nature of man? To claim that the cops in the Rodney King beating acted within policy guidelines is not only ridiculous, it is absolutely incorrect, as evidenced by the emphasis on training and the use of the King video to show what is NOT acceptable or policy. And whether you want to justify and enjoy racist jokes is your decision. But I hardly think you can justify racial jokes by police officers done over police radios while they are on duty and supposedly protecting and serving ALL citizens. Perhaps it's easier to use the "boys will be boys" argument when you are not affected by this behavior. The problem is that if we don't speak out against this then we all WILL be affected by the behavior at some time in the future. No, we can't change things or solve problems if we choose to use the excuse that these problems are due to the nature of people and should be ignored. But don't kid yourself. That kind of attitude is an excellent enabler for the people who are a big part of the problem in society that results in incidents like the King beating. Bill On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:10:52 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Biil I'm not making excuses for these cops. They acted within standard police policy guidelines, so no ''excuse '' is called for. As for racial comments and jokes, you must be one of the "holier than thou'" I am not an enabler, nor do I condone putting down other people in a non-serious way, but the phenomenum exists and it is as old as man has been on the planet. I'm sure that blacks make "honkey" jokes, some of which I've heard and enjoyed. You want to change the world? Be my guest! Vi _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Wife wins $45 Million
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kathy, In my experience I found the court to be fair to both sides. Perhaps I was a lucky exception to the rule? I also think a lot has to do with the reasonableness and civility of the two parties in the divorce. A lot of money can be saved by sharing the same lawyer. But that only works when there is agreement on both sides. Bill On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:41:36 -0400 Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Obviously Ron you haven't visited most divorce courts or you wouldn't have said Women have always had the advantage in a divorce, quite the opposite is true. Most women lose more than men in a divorce, it's time the courts start recognizing what a housewife does, I think most of us realize that they don't just sit around doing nothing all day, while their husband is out working. Of course if you think different go hire someone to do all the jobs a housewife does then maybe you'll see the financial worth of a wife. Ronald Helm wrote: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lets hear it for the Judge. It's about time they came to their senses and do the right thing for the wives. Len Obviously Len has not been in the dame divorce court that I had the opportunity of viewing. Women have always had the advantage in a divorce court :-) Ron -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI The Rodney King Beating - The Other Story part two
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Vi, I disagree with their decision to drop the charges against Rodney King. However, when the police choose to break the law and inflict damage and harm against a citizen, they must pay the price in terms of criminal and civil trials that may result from their actions. Same is true for the Louima case. And the state must pay the price for its failure to train/control the actions of its employees. Unfortunately, it's usually the lawyers who get rich from these cases and not the people who were victimized. Just because King is a petty crook and a low life does not mean he does not have the same rights and protections that you and I have. Even a convicted felon, who does lose many basic rights, does not lose the right to avoid being beaten up by police officers. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:35:40 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Bill, Seems to me they paid for NOT breaking the law. Just as Rodney King was the law-breaker, it is the cops that got tried and went to jail. Ole Rodney ended up smelling like a rose, a millionaire free to continue his dissolute lifestyle. This is all too typical of alf our topsy-turvy times Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: . . .I"m sure King and the cops DO know exactly what went down. And they all paid for breaking the law. _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:29:22 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nothing in any of the stories I read mentioned scopes. Perhaps the accuracy was more a function of how closely the kids were clustered together and the shooting was more directional than aimed. Bill Initial reports mentioned a 30.06 with a scope being used in Jonesboro, but I have seen nothing since the first day. The media around here sure lost interest rapidly. Ron HI Ron, Same here. Perhaps that's a disturbing sign that these things are becoming so common place that they aren't hot news any more. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI The Rodney King Beating - The Other Story part two
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Joan, He was not paid money for breaking the law. He was paid money as compensation for pain and suffering that was due to the police breaking the law. That is an important distinction. And, as I understand it, the guy who made the most money is his lawyer. I don't think King is any better off from his experience with the LAPD. Money is certainly not the answer to his problems, but our laws do hold people responsible for monetary remuneration to compensate for pain and suffering due to an unlawful act. Even for acts that are lawful but deemed culpatory. Again, we have to try to separate our bias against King because of who and what he is and really look at the actions of everyone in this incident to draw a reasonable conclusion about it, IMO. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:37:59 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Bill, Seems as if Mr. King did quite nicely financially despite breaking the law. And who said crime didn't pay! G Joan ------ From: William J. Foristal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI The Rodney King Beating - The Other Story part two Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 5:07 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Vi, The video wasn't edited. They just didn't show the entire video. I"m sure King and the cops DO know exactly what went down. And they all paid for breaking the law. Bill On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:49:44 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Sue, The point is there was a lot that went on between King and the cops before the video was made, and most probably afterward. I heard no one say the video had been edited before it was aired on the TV news. Bottom line: the video didn't tell the whole story, but people like George Bush saw it, freaked out and declared there had been injustice in the Simi Valley verdict of "not guilty" in the cops' trial. And don't imagine that he who attends these trials comes away with the certainty that they know exactly what went down. They only know what the lawyers on either side want them to know and are competent enough to reveal. But I'll bet King and the cops know exactly what went down! :) Vi __ You wrote: . . .I just wish that they had shown that video from the beginning to thepublic. Maybe they did and I just missed it. I must have seen the other one a million times though. It may have helped to understand why the jury came to the verdict that they came to.. . . _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jackie: Prisons for Profit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Jackie, I have always had a fear of heights, and I conquered the Space Needle with no problem. :) Go for it! You'll love it. Also, the market folks will pack your fish and ship it home for you. Perhaps you can meet up with Ron and he can give you the insider's tour of the area. Mount Rainier is impressive too, so that could be another side trip for you. Perhaps you can find an apartment there. :) Have fun! Bill On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:34:44 -0500 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill Thanks for the hints--now will have to justify staying a few days to the spouse--have to figure out how to bring a big fish home in my purse (yah, sure). Got some stuff from the company putting on the workshop and wow I need a week or more. Wonder if the school would buy that I got stranded and I needed to stay awhile?? I really am excited that the school is willing to put out the money for me to have a wonderful time as well as learning some great stuff. Of course, I have to have a training session for faculty when I get back, but that is o.k. with me. I have saved your message and will take it with me. Still a little apprehensive about the space needle--forget the view, I want to sit away from the windows. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: And Seattle is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. My registration is verified and the secretary is making plane reservations. Now all I have to do is go to desensitization training so I can go up in the Space Needle and attend the dinner vbg jackief Hi Jackie, You'll love Seattle! And the Space Needle is no problem! Just close your eyes when you are on the elevator, if it bothers you. The view is great from the top. Even better than the CN Tower in Toronto, IMO. If you have a day or two extra you should make sure you get down to the market. Even if you don't buy anything it's fun to watch the guys throw those huge fish around as they wrap them up for customers. And a REALLY fun trip would be to take a ferry to Victoria, BC on Vancouver Island. Go to the Empress Hotel for a touch of Britain and attend the afternoon tea. Then go see Bouchart Gardens. They have newer boats that can make the crossing in about four hours. But you still need two days to spare to make it worth while. Have a great time! Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:44:56 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-27 17:27:34 EDT, you write: Oh, I did not intend that as a guess at why you have none :-). My first guess would be an umbilical herniorrhaphy. Now I still have two guesses left :-) Ron Got it in one. At birth, so I've never really had a belly button, innie or outie. Surely that makes me a deprived child, doesn't it, and excuses any awful things I do in future? Doc Hi Doc, It means you could go to the Naval Observatory and they would not see you. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Wife wins $45 Million
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Oh, I agree that in most cases the woman's life style suffers after a divorce, especially when small children are involved. Simply because in most cases the earning power of the woman is less than the man's. Child support and/or alimony rarely makes up the difference. Bill On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:01:39 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I didn't have any problems either, but then again I didn't want anything at all except out and my kids. I got both. Women are at a disadvantage in divorces though. Unless there is a lot of money, etc to be had, usually the life style of the woman and children drops considerably because of income. In California everything is split down the middle. And IMO that is the way it should be. If the majority of the money and property happens to have come into the marriage via the woman it is still split, just as it is if the money and property comes in via the man. IMO though there are no winners in a divorce, especially hard hit are the children. But sometimes things just can't be avoided. And someone always gets hurt either financially, or emotionally, or both. Sue Hi Kathy, In my experience I found the court to be fair to both sides. Perhaps I was a lucky exception to the rule? I also think a lot has to do with the reasonableness and civility of the two parties in the divorce. A lot of money can be saved by sharing the same lawyer. But that only works when there is agreement on both sides. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI New Trial for the list, locally tried
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kelly, Very nice to have you here. I look forward to seeing your opinions on the various issues being discussed. I agree with your assessment of Robertson. Bill On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:08:15 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kelly J West) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kelly J West) writes: Pat conveniently settled the case on the second day of jury selection. The amount of the settlement was kept private, but it was reported that this is the third defamation suit he has settled out of court since his now infamous "third rate mind" criticism of the law proffessors. Seems to me that the only person witha third rate mind is Pat himself. Kelly p.s. thanks for the welcome! I hope that I can contribute to this list as well as reap the benifits of others posts. On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:42:20 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Kathy, He has that bad combination of being a politician as well as a religious zealot. He is probably incapable of learning anything and certainly incapable of keeping his mouth shut. :) Bill On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:57:03 -0400 Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill :) Yes this was a new trial they were reporting it all day here in Virginia Beach, it was the third time Robertson was being sued for libel, today though he settled out of court for a undisclosed sum, so much for that trial! You would think after three times the man would learn to keep his mouth shut. William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kathy, Is this a repeat of an old trial? I saw a trial like this on Court TV a long time ago. When I still got Court TV. I remember Robertson testifying. Bill -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:21:21 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-29 11:48:22 EDT, you write: IMO, things haven't really changed much, even with the advent of the computer. The key is still to review a very large cross section of media and other information sources in order to get all sides of an issue or event so you can make the best possible assessment of what is true and what is legend. And sometimes even that is not enough. Bill For me there's an added step. Is it something about which I must make a decision or form an opinion? If not, I just leave it alone. If I must take some sort of action, I try to discern which, if any, of all the competing reports is most probable given common sense, and then hedge my bets (doing both puts and calls is a good example of that.) Doc (the last of the big time gamblers -- bet the favorite to show.) Hi Doc, If you engage in both puts and calls you might as well save your time. You are going to break even. :) Do you mean you choose not to form an opinion or choose not to express it. I don't have the will power to resist doing either. G Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, I haven't heard a thing from or about the Browns. The charity groups and support groups seemed to die off rather quickly. I am a bit suspicious of the real motivations for those groups and wonder if some people made some quick cash off of those groups. They had the perfect environment since so many people were emotionally involved in the case and ready to send their money in. Only think I've heard about Goldman is his TV special on justice in America. Even news of the Dream Team has dwindled to nothing. But as sad as it is, the stigma will never go away with respect to his kids. The first thing people will think of every time they meet them or hear their names is the fact that their father most likely murdered their mother. Bill On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:47:45 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi BIll: Actually it is a no win situation for these kids. No matter where they live or where they end up going they are always going to be known as the kids of a killer. If Simpson had just taken off after the trial and gone off somewhere and lived a very quiet life without all the hoopla that he created and is still creating, I think that the public sooner or later would have just forgotten this whole thing and gone on to something else. He is the one who keeps making the damning statements and creating the publicity and hatred of the public. And these kids are going to be the ones who will suffer from it. I haven't heard anything about the Browns lately have you? Also what ever happened to Denise and her fight against spousal abuse? I do still get mailings from the Nicole Simpson charity thing. But haven't gotten anything from the Ron Goldman one for months. Sue Hi Sue, Yeah, that was my point. We always hear things like "it was reported that", or an undisclosed source said that.etc. We never actually see or hear Sydney or Justin saying anything. So if you could tract back the trial of where these reports come from I'd bet we'd find they come from people who are biased for or against Simpson. And there is no way we can ever determine if Sydney or Justin actually did or said what was reported. I suppose that Justin's story he wrote where his father turned out to be the murderer in a school exercise was true, although the actual story was never released to the public. I think it's fair to assume that both kids will carry psychological problems throughout their lives because of the trauma they have experienced. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI New Trial for the list, locally tried
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kathy, Is this a repeat of an old trial? I saw a trial like this on Court TV a long time ago. When I still got Court TV. I remember Robertson testifying. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:42:58 -0400 Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all :) Today a new trial started here in Virginia Beach, I will be covering it for the list, the reason I am interested in this is I live about 6 minutes from Regent University which is a law school here in VA that is owned by Pat Robertson, recently it was announced CBN layed off 600 people, doing a bit of investigating, I see the reason to be due to the trial that started today, Pat Robertson is being sued for libel. The short history of this case is, back in 1994 Robertson fired the Dean of Regent Univ. several of the professors at Regent wrote letters of protest, Robertson wrote a letter back accusing them of having "third rate minds" evidently that started the ball rolling and some of their careers were ruined. Robertson is now being sued for $10 million dollars. I will do a more detailed summary of this tonight for the list :) -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: It would save a lot of time and money if that person turns out to be the "real Killer" also. SEG Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:56:59 -0700 "Yvonne " [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Yvonne " [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nope. According to the scuttle, Cochran says it wasn't Arnelle. And furthermore, Arnelle wasn't drunk. So, the call is out now for the person who was behind the driver's seat. -Original Message- From: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 2:46 PM Subject: Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Yvonne: Oh Geeze...she was sitting in the drivers seat, and the guy who lived there came out of his house to see what happened. She started apologizing right off the bat about it. LOL Oh weel, I bet Cochran figures out a way to get her off. Maybe Fuhrman was really the driver. TIC Sue Don't know if you've all heard the latest scuttle. A "reliable source" faxed the local KABC radio talk station early this a.m. Purported story is that the Simpson family has hired Mr Johnny to defend Arnelle. The proactive defense will be that the entire LAPD is out to get Simpson, Arnelle was not the driver so now prove your case. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, There was a comment about "gorillas in the mist". Also a racist joke that was a take off of a cereal commercial. Original was a commercial for "Nut n Honey" where a woman askes her husband what he's eating and she says "Nuttin' honey". The racist joke involved a black woman asking a black man the same question and the answer was "Nuttin' Bitch". There were a few others I don't remember. I don't see how anyone could try to justify or rationalize this behavior. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:56:01 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan: A while back I found the radio transmission on the web, but I can't remember now where it was that I found it. I do remember that there was something about "gorillas" in it, but can't remember the rest of it. Sue Hello Bill, Despite the fact that old habits die slowly, as they say :), professional behavior must prevail. I don't recall hearing of the racist comments made on the police radio, but there is no room for such comments over the radio or anywhere in the workplace. Can't control people in their homes or other private areas. I guess education and being raised without hatred is part of the answer, but so much racism within all races still exists, I don't see a lot of hope in the near future. However, it can be controlled on the job. Joan -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Justice
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:22:33 -0500 Richard Soderstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Soderstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill wrote Hi Sody, I take no pleasure in nor do I get any satisfaction when anyone dies. But I DO see the value and necessity in making sure that certain people are locked away and never allowed to walk free in our society. And I DO see the need to have strong laws that are enforced in a strong and expedient manner. But there is no way that I could ever think that executing a child was justified and could certainly derive no satisfaction nor pleasure from knowing that it was done, here or anywhere else. And whether we think precedent is indicative of justice, it is a strong and effective tool for advocates in the presentation of legal arguments. Bill Bill : How can you justify putting anyone in a cell for twenty five years?? I see no sense in our present system of criminal justice. Prisons if you must have them should be a sincere effort to reform the individual and getting him back as a productive member of society. If that is not possible than dispose of him so that he is no longer a burden on society. I can't imagine anything more horrible that sentencing a young person ( or an old person either) to Life Without Parole, really Life Without Hope.. On one hand we talk of assisted suicide and euthanasia as a relief for such a life and on the other condemn people to that very thing in the justice system. Someone suggested twenty five years for a thirteen year old. In jail until thirty eight?? What kind of a person will he be and what kind of life will he be able to lead?? I guess I am the Dr. Kevorkian of law and order. The dirty old Gandy Dancer Hi Sody, Oooh, you're really treading dangerous ground when you support executions to eliminate "burdens of society". IMO, it's a lot easier to justify locking someone up for 25 years than it is to justify killing them. In Hitler's time the Jews were considered burdens of society and they were systematically killed. I bet there are people in this country right now who would argue that the old the sick and the lame are burdens to society. I don't think a "burden to society" argument is very strong to support a death penalty. But I DO agree that the penal system must be structured to provide medical treatment where required as well as rehabilitation, where possible. Killing them all is simply not an option, IMO. And unless you are going to kill them all you will simply have to find a way to justify locking them up for whatever time periods are called for, including the rest of their lives for some individuals. IMO, the debate over the death penalty is quite separate from the debate over how prisons should be operated and how prisoners should be treated. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, That's the important point. Considering what a cop has to deal with and face on a daily basis I don't think ANY of us would fail to understand why they feel like beating the hell out of people. And that is exactly why they are trained to deal with this emotion and to suppress it while doing their jobs. I still think there are many more good cops than bad cops and slowly but surely we are seeing some solutions. It doesn't seem that the good cops are as committed to the code of silence as we saw in the past. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:40:58 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Unfortunately I don't think it really made that much of an impression on some. I watched the cops arrest the illegals here in Riverside on television, and they knew there was a news copter right above them (they looked up at it several time), but it didn't stop them from beating one of the aliens. After that chase though, I can understand why they were feeling the way that they were. Still doesn't excuse beating someone though. :( Sue HI Sue, And King was not armed. Glad to hear they used the tape to show what NOT to do. It certainly is a good example of it. The sad part is that the female CHP officer had the situation well in hand before the LAPD showed up and decided to have a beating party. It seems obvious that this sort of behavior was common practice for some cops and had it not been for the video tape they would have gotten away with this one too. I bet the good and honest cops are glad those rogue cops are finished in law enforcement. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:16:05 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I was commenting on what Simpson said the other day, about the kids never asking or mentioning their mother's death. According to him they haven't said a word, and he hasn't said anything to them. But he also said (during the custody hearings) that the Brown's had been filling their heads with lies, saying that he killed their mother and trying to turn them against him. Terry was just saying that in pictures of the family, Sydney looked very protective of her father. As far as I know the kids have never said anything at all to the media. I just feel that the kids know what is going on. Especially Sydney with her computer. Sue Hi Sue, Yeah, that was my point. We always hear things like "it was reported that", or an undisclosed source said that.etc. We never actually see or hear Sydney or Justin saying anything. So if you could tract back the trial of where these reports come from I'd bet we'd find they come from people who are biased for or against Simpson. And there is no way we can ever determine if Sydney or Justin actually did or said what was reported. I suppose that Justin's story he wrote where his father turned out to be the murderer in a school exercise was true, although the actual story was never released to the public. I think it's fair to assume that both kids will carry psychological problems throughout their lives because of the trauma they have experienced. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Linda McCartney's death
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:28:48 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-25 17:25:09 EDT, you write: don't know about the rest of the public, but I never felt a "need to know" this stuff. Bill Glad to hear I'm not the only one who doesn't feel a "need to know" other people's business. I thought I was lacking some necessary trait or something. Doc Hi Doc, More likely you have a necessary trait that is lacking in others. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Ex-Miss America apologizes to first lady over alleged one-night
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:35:27 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gracen believes the heavy media coverage of Clinton's alleged affair with a White House intern and the lengthy investigation into his past are ``embarrassing for America.'' I don't think an investigation of anything is "embarrassing for America". The only thing that is embarrassing for America is Clinton's "patterns of behavior". I don't even think William Foristal would consider the investigation embarrassing for America, maybe potentially embarrassing for Clinton, Bill? HI Ron, If there is credible and reasonable evidence to suggest that a president may have broken the law, then I think it is imperative that an independent investigation be conducted. Rather than embarrassing America I think it's a sign that the system works and no one is above the law. I DO think that people who bring false charges against anyone and that prosecutors who use their position to wage a poltiical battle that is more concerned with falsely convicting someone rather than engaging in a bona fide investigation should be the ones who are embarrassed. But how can a nation that has such a large percentage of its citizens watching shows like Jerry Springer really be embarrassed by the Starr investigation? :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, She has gone on record as offering to give her testimony in forums other than the Grand Jury as long as Starr was not involved. I guess Starr figured he may as well question Hillary Clinton again. At least she'll answer his questions. :) Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:45:48 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Yeah, right, like Starr would listen to me. BG Besides I think that if it were possible her lawyers or someone would have done it by now, if for no other reason than to keep her out of jail. I don't think that they will throw her in jail this time anyway. Her testimony isn't worth anything anyway. She is a convicted felon. Sue Hi Sue, That's a great suggestion. Maybe you should send a letter to Starr and copy in Janet Reno. I agree, we'll probably never know the complete and true story about Whitewater and the other allegations. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jackie: Prisons for Profit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: And Seattle is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. My registration is verified and the secretary is making plane reservations. Now all I have to do is go to desensitization training so I can go up in the Space Needle and attend the dinner vbg jackief Hi Jackie, You'll love Seattle! And the Space Needle is no problem! Just close your eyes when you are on the elevator, if it bothers you. The view is great from the top. Even better than the CN Tower in Toronto, IMO. If you have a day or two extra you should make sure you get down to the market. Even if you don't buy anything it's fun to watch the guys throw those huge fish around as they wrap them up for customers. And a REALLY fun trip would be to take a ferry to Victoria, BC on Vancouver Island. Go to the Empress Hotel for a touch of Britain and attend the afternoon tea. Then go see Bouchart Gardens. They have newer boats that can make the crossing in about four hours. But you still need two days to spare to make it worth while. Have a great time! Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:03:08 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . We are probably the only 2 who believe King had to be subdued and the officers were not totally at fault. Joan Oh no you are not the only two! Add my name to the list, and didn't the first jury acquit the police, the verdict that led to all of the riots. That case should never have been tried again. Ron Hi Ron, LOL...you see a tape of a crime being committed and you deny that it occurred. You see rumor, leaks and gossip about Clinton and insist that he is guilty. Amazing behavior for a very intelligent person. The federal trial was demanded by justice and justice was satisfied. Too bad they couldn't have had a federal trial for Simpson. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:26:35 -0500 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William J. Foristal wrote: The thing that amazed me was the apparent accuracy of the shooters. Not many shots missed. Bill Hi Bill I don't know but I don't think that would really be considered amazing in this area and possibly the South. Kids are taught gun shooting and safety at a very early age here. This is hunting and fishing country, remember. And Mitch spent his summers here, even after going south. And it sounds like Drew's family were also around guns. I think that is why it was such a shock--guns are more often seen as recreational rather than for protection and power. jackief Hi Jackie, Yeah, I know...but this was a lot different from target practice or even hunting animals. To think that 11 and 13 year old kids could have such accuracy in shooting other kids is very disturbing to me. It indicates a complete emotional separation from the reality of what they were doing. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: D.P.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, I don't think that these kids even formulate an idea of what the consequences might be. Too bad there are so many guns around that they never seem to have a problem getting their hands on one or two of them. I don't think that executing kids is the answer to the problem. Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:42:15 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Well, we now have another 14 year old in Penn who shot and killed a teacher. This is really getting out of hand. Even one is bad, but geeze, everyday we are reading about a new one. 14 seems to be the popular age for doing this. Wonder if that is because they know that nothing horrible is going to happen to them? Sue Hi Sue, I agree, and I certainly would not suggest that any kid get off lightly for committing murder. I just don't think the current methods are appropriate. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Yep, and the Clinton haters can't stand it. If Starr had evidence to impeach McDougal's testimony then he wouldn't need her testimony, would he? He wants to force her to lie and implicate Clinton because he has NO evidence to do this on its own merits. Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:01:57 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I bet that there ends up being a whole library of books that come out of this mess. And the one book that everyone will be waiting for is one from Hillary. (she won't write one though) Susan McDougal won't be made to testify again, IMO. Starr can't handle anymore public scorn, no one will believe her no matter what she says, and it just doesn't make sense to jail her again. If Starr has information that will get the Clintons, I doubt that anything that Susan has to say will make any difference one way or the other. Sue HI Sue, Excellent questions. She's not going to be hurting for money because she can sell her story as a book and probably a movie. I think that there will be a lot more information coming out about Mr. Starr and his investigating tactics with respect to Susan McDougal. And with his approval rating at a very low level now, this may just be the straw that breaks the elephant's back. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Joan, I agree with you completely! There was also some disturbing evidence that showed some racist comments over the police radio. This is the kind of foolish behavior that must be eliminated also. Bill On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:57:44 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Kathy, I recall your post about LAPD training. Hopefully it has improved with time and with the exposure that police force has received. I believe when it is necessary to subdue a prisoner attempting to avoid capture or to escape or to prevent that individual from harming someone, then force must be used. I believe King needed to be subdued as he did not succumb to capture willingly. The line appears to be at what point King was under control and how much physical force was still used when it was unnecessary. I believe there was abuse and that was wrong. On the other hand, I do not excuse King for the part he played. Had he not behaved as he did, a high speed chase would have been avoided and had he not resisted arrest and attacked the officers, no force would have been necessary. However, I certainly distinguish between necessary force and abuse. Abuse is not acceptable on the part of the criminal or the police. I understand your point. :) Joan -- From: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 1:16 PM Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan :) I disagree with you :) If you remember a couple of years ago I stated that the problem was in the training of the LAPD according to their training they were following the procedures used at the time. OTOH that does not lift the responsibility off of the officers and what they did, nor does it lift the responsibility off of RK and what he did. Joan Moyer wrote: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Vi, Glad the surgery was successful. I had a house on the market once for a year and it was a real worry since I had bought another. Glad to read your posts. We are probably the only 2 who believe King had to be subdued and the officers were not totally at fault. Joan -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Exactly, and that is why executing kids will never serve as a deterrent to other kids who may act on their compulsions. Now, keeping guns away from them would certainly be a better idea. And I DO support more severe penalties in the form of confinement in an appropriate institution for a very long time. Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:08:13 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Ouch!! Thank God that was all that happened. I did some pretty stupid things, similar to that, when I was a kid too. Sometimes I think it is a miracle that as many kids live to see adulthood as they do. :) You said the same thing that I was trying to say. I don't think that these kids even think of the consequences of shooting that gun. Death to a kid really has no meaning. They don't understand that dead is dead, and there is no changing it. And the movies and television don't make it any easier for them to understand. The "dead" guy always gets up and stars in another movie. :( Sue HI Sue, I think they knew that something horrible was going to happen if they squeezed that trigger, but another part of the child-like mind can be very compulsive. And the connection between squeezing that trigger as well as the distance between them and the victims was not enough to stop that compulsive action. Once the first shot was fired I imagine the rest were easy. I think everyone can remember foolish and compulsive actions done as a child. I got hit by a car once because of one when I was 13. Since there was never any traffic at this one intersection of two alleys I used to ride my bike at full speed right through it. I knew it was stupid and dangerous and even remember the thrill of the danger and knowing it was stupid. Sure enough, one day there was a car and bang, I went sailing throught the air. Luckily, all I got was a sprained wrist and a small gouge on my leg. And a very valuable lesson. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: How do you know that Starr has evidence that would impeach Susan McDougal? Another very irresponsible statement, IMO. Best, Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:00:49 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue, It is up to the jury to evaluate any witness. The great majority of people in the witness protection program are criminals themselves, convicted or not. Some who were not and left the program despite the threat to their personal security complained bitterly of their treatment as criminals. The reason Susan McDougal did not just go before the grand jury and lie for Clinton is that Starr has evidence that would impeach her. That is, of course, the source of the nonsensical claim that she was willing to go to jail to avoid having to go to jail. It is amazing that adults of reasonable intelligence can swallow such stuff. I can understand why a prosecutor might not put on minor and unnecessary witnesses as apparently happened in your jury duty when he found out the witnesses were convicted felons. Naturally a prosecutor would prefer only the most innocent and chaste of witnesses but they are not always available and are most unlikely as witnesses to conspiracy. Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: I can understand what you are saying, but I thought that if a person was a convicted felon their testimony wasn't considered any good (or something to that effect). When I was on jury duty a couple of the so called witnesses were excused because they had a felony record. Sue I doubt there have been many, if any, mob leaders or druglords that have been convicted without the testimony of fellow mobsters. Starr's methods of going up the chain of conspirators is the natural progression of conviction by all prosecutors in such cases. The unwillingness of such witnesses to testify is what keeps the mob bosses out of jail just as it is doing with the Clintons so far. Susan McDougal herself was convicted largely by the testimony of David Hale, who was a convicted perjurer. Naturally such testimony has to be backed by reasonable evidence. Best, Terry -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:04:42 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: How do you I don't answer questions in this forum from those who only indulge in personal attacks. Should you ever decide to clean yourself up and lay off the stuff then we can talk. If you wish to indulge to silly fantasy of believing Susan McDougal went to jail to avoid going to jail, continue on. The people you think are laughing with you may be laughing at you. Best, Terry Sorry you have such a thin skin. I would think that you of all people would have recognized the need to develop a thicker one. And your hesitation to answer the tough questions has been noticed when others have asked them also. :) Best, Bill PS: I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing near you. VBG _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Joan, I guess we should be encouraged by the progress that HAS been made over the past twenty to thirty years. I think as long as everyone continues to fight for the elimination of racial prejudice and discrimination that progress will continue. But I doubt if we will ever see the end of it completely. Perhaps future generations will. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:21:52 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Bill, Despite the fact that old habits die slowly, as they say :), professional behavior must prevail. I don't recall hearing of the racist comments made on the police radio, but there is no room for such comments over the radio or anywhere in the workplace. Can't control people in their homes or other private areas. I guess education and being raised without hatred is part of the answer, but so much racism within all races still exists, I don't see a lot of hope in the near future. However, it can be controlled on the job. Joan ------ From: William J. Foristal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 12:08 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Joan, I agree with you completely! There was also some disturbing evidence that showed some racist comments over the police radio. This is the kind of foolish behavior that must be eliminated also. Bill On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:57:44 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Kathy, I recall your post about LAPD training. Hopefully it has improved with time and with the exposure that police force has received. I believe when it is necessary to subdue a prisoner attempting to avoid capture or to escape or to prevent that individual from harming someone, then force must be used. I believe King needed to be subdued as he did not succumb to capture willingly. The line appears to be at what point King was under control and how much physical force was still used when it was unnecessary. I believe there was abuse and that was wrong. On the other hand, I do not excuse King for the part he played. Had he not behaved as he did, a high speed chase would have been avoided and had he not resisted arrest and attacked the officers, no force would have been necessary. However, I certainly distinguish between necessary force and abuse. Abuse is not acceptable on the part of the criminal or the police. I understand your point. :) Joan -- From: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 1:16 PM Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan :) I disagree with you :) If you remember a couple of years ago I stated that the problem was in the training of the LAPD according to their training they were following the procedures used at the time. OTOH that does not lift the responsibility off of the officers and what they did, nor does it lift the responsibility off of RK and what he did. Joan Moyer wrote: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Vi, Glad the surgery was successful. I had a house on the market once for a year and it was a real worry since I had bought another. Glad to read your posts. We are probably the only 2 who believe King had to be subdued and the officers were not totally at fault. Joan -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mai
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, And King was not armed. Glad to hear they used the tape to show what NOT to do. It certainly is a good example of it. The sad part is that the female CHP officer had the situation well in hand before the LAPD showed up and decided to have a beating party. It seems obvious that this sort of behavior was common practice for some cops and had it not been for the video tape they would have gotten away with this one too. I bet the good and honest cops are glad those rogue cops are finished in law enforcement. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:23:12 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: They use the Rodney King tape as a training tool to show what not to do now. So that in itself tells me that the cops didn't handle the situation right. At the beginning of the tape it shows King on the ground a few times, and getting up. But it also show about 8 or more cops standing around. Seems like there were more than enough cops there to subdue him without beating him. In fact one of the cops actually is shown with his foot on Kings neck, and still hitting him with a stick. Then the one with the foot on the neck, kicked him. Sue HI Sue, I agree with you and Kathy on this one, to a certain extent. I doubt if the LAPD training taught cops to continue to beat a perp once he was subdued and posed no threat to them or anyone else. And certainly Rodney King was to blame for much of what happened. He failed to stop when ordered to do so and failed to follow instructions initially when he finally got out of the car. He was under the influence of alcohol. However, in no way can we as a society choose to ignore the blame of the police officers in this incident. I'm the first to admit that these cops have an extremely difficult job to do. That is why they get such intensive and ongoing training in how to handle the situations they are likely to encounter. It is essential that they maintain control of their behavior 100% of the time. This is a tough task for situations where they may have seen a scumbag gun down one of their friends and then drop his weapon and raise his hands. The tempation to blow him away must be a tremendous one to resist. However, resist it they must. Just as they must resist the urge to beat the hell out of a guy who is subdued and helpless. Cops who choose not to resist this temptation make it so much more difficult for the majority of cops who do resist it. IMO, it doesn't matter what King was doing prior to the time he was subdued and helpless lying on the ground. (And let's not try to kid ourselves. The tape we saw showed clearly and undeniably that he WAS subdued and helpless). The choice those cops made to continue to beat the hell out of King, and to give in to their frustrations and anger, was a choice that was wrong and that demanded a response of punishment under the same law these guys were sworn to uphold. Anything less than this would create a society that admits that some people are above the law and that crime is defined not by what is done but also by who does it. It is ironic, IMO, that law and order people who talk long and loud about people being responsible for their actions and paying the price for their actions when they are against the law would be so quick to try to defend the cops in this situation and say that they were merely doing their jobs. These cops lost their careers and had their lives ruined because of THEIR actions and THEIR choices. Just like a drug user loses a career and ruins his life because of HIS choices. To condemn the druggie and support the cops is the height of hypocrisy, IMO. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Linda McCartney's death
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:58:29 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-24 10:54:54 EDT, you write: As I understand it, the investigation by Santa Barbara (which has now concluded) was strictly because the PR announcement said she died in Santa Barbara and they had not received any death certificate on her, which is required by law. Once they determined she had not died in Santa Barbara they ended the investigation. Bill Too bad they didn't investigate first and call the media later, instead of the other way around. Doc Hi Doc, More likely it was the media contacting them to check on cause of death, time..etc. Of course they could have answered "no comment" until they get further information. I don't know about the rest of the public, but I never felt a "need to know" this stuff. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:22:58 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No Terry I believe she said she went to jail *rather* than to testify the way Starr wanted her to. Jackie Today when she again refused to testify, and faces even harsher penalties, she stated or her attorney stated, "Susan McDougal does not believe in Starr's investigation". Now there is one brilliant reason to go to jail ! Ron HI Ron, What brilliant reason IS there to go to jail? Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Just the Truth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:46:19 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Starr doesn't want the truth. He wants testimony that will incriminate Clinton and he doesn't care how he gets it. Bill Starr has no agenda. His purpose in life is to clear the President of all these fallacious charges and prove that all this scandal was nothing but lies so that the moralistic, truthful, righteous character of our President will live on in his legacy, a thing that has always been Mr. Clinton's top priority. Ron HI Ron, ROTFLMAO!!! Your first sentence gave you away on this one. Too funny. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Evidence of New Planets Is Cited--Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Steve, And this stuff is a lot of fun to think about. People always say that living well is the best revenge, but I've always thought that being young was a close second. Compare where we were technologically speaking at the end of the 19th century with where we are as we end the 20th century. If we make the same progress in the 21st century we may be visiting those planets on a regular basis. Surely there will be colonies of earth citizens on the moon, space station-cities and other planets in our solar system. Bill On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:56:40 +0100 "Steve Wright" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Steve Wright" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: lol must have been using the wrong kind of marker peng, I suppose everything is easy in theory, little bits of research that fit the puzzle are starting to appear though, hopefully I am young enough to see how it will all pan out. Steve _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI NOW Will Not Back Paula Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:51:01 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron, "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They instead are throwing their support to the case that is presently before the Supreme Court, and are going before Congress, etc and lobbying for harder laws concerning this. Sue Good for NOW. This case, supported by NOW, could be potentially much more harmful to Clinton than Paula Jones case, especially in the Wiley mauling. Ron If the reports from the Supreme Court are correct, the justices were very hostile to the plaintiff and NOW will lose. Ordinarily that would be great news for NOW because they are best at mobilizing outrage. But as you know they have already cut their own throats by dividing women up into good girls and bad girls. Best, Terry Gee, are you saying that there are only "good" girls? What a romantic! LMAO! Best, Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI NOW Will Not Back Paula Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:25:17 -0500 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William J. Foristal wrote: Hi Jackie, Perhaps a better question than why NOW should support Jones is why the right wing whacko's, who have never cared about women's rights in the past, and who have tried to defeat any legislation designed to protect women's rights, are now so concerned about them. As always, their transparency is what destroys their credibility and intelligent groups like NOW recognize the wisdom of keeping a very safe distance from these political manipulators. Bill Hi Bill You are right, as Ireland pointed out when she reported why NOW was not supporting Paula. But, of course, NOW is not supporting Paul, the truthful, sweet little innocent because they are all enanamored with Clinton TIC. Funny, that someone has to be a Clinton lover if they don't go along with this political crap. jackief HI Jackie, I guess it's too much to expect the Clinton haters to have a lucid thought or two at this late stage of the process. G Prejudice and bias are quite blind when it comes to rational and critical thinking. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Perjury
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:08:13 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clintonistas are not bound by the rules of logic or they wouldn't be clintonistas. Best, Terry Hi Terry Well that just goes to prove I am not a Clintonite at least by your statement. Of course, I didn't know that being a member of a certain political party determined whether you used logic or not. That is really the best logical statement I have ever heard, almost as good as "trickle down" economic policy in a global economy will jump start the economy. Democratnon-logical person Republican---logical person jackief Hi Jackie, When you come to a totally false conclusion, perhaps you should re-examine your logic and your premise. I have been a registered Democrat all my life and was once even invited to the Democratic National Convention as a delegate. I have never voted for a Republican for president and have failed to vote for only two nominees of the Democratic Party. I voted against Clinton as a Republican masquerading as a Democrat. Best, Terry ROTFLMAO! (Psst, Jackie, usually at the end of this speech the bartender hollers out "Last call, everybody!") VBG Best, Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:38:21 -0500 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William J. Foristal wrote: Hi Jackie, As usual, your perception of issues transcends the bias and prejudice of others. :) Clearly it seems that if McDougal was refusing to answer questions in order to hide Clinton's guilt, then Clinton would have issued a presidential pardon to her to take the heat off of her. He could simply say that this woman is being persecuted as a political prisoner and this was against all the principles that our judicial system stands for. If he is not guilty, however, he does not need to take any chances with public sentiment and opinion that might be turned against him if he issues a pardon to McDougal. Bill Hi Bill And here I thought I was more difficult to understand than Kant : ). I just wonder how people can figure she is getting such a great payoff later--prison is no picnic, usually, for anyone. And I would imagine it is harder for someone that has been used to somewhat more in life than the average prisoner. Besides, by the time she gets out, I don't imagine Clinton would have the money for the big payoff as people seem to think. Oops, they just called Susan "Joan of Arc" on TV, they must be reading our posts (teehee). jackief Hi Jackie, Exactly! Using their own logic it is obvious that Susan McDougal's refusal to testify is more indicative of Clinton's innocence than his guilt. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI NOW Will Not Back Paula Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:31:59 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They instead are throwing their support to the case that is presently before the Supreme Court, and are going before Congress, etc and lobbying for harder laws concerning this. Sue Good for NOW. This case, supported by NOW, could be potentially much more harmful to Clinton than Paula Jones case, especially in the Wiley mauling. Ron HI Ron, That's not what the experts are saying, if you can believe the experts. Apparently this case before the Supreme Court has sufficient differences from any of the Clinton allegations that it will not affect the Jones appeal. And the Willey issue is not even a court case, so how could the Supreme Court ruling affect anything concerning Willey. And, of course, even if the Jones ruling is overturned they will still have to convince a jury with respect to liability. But we all know that the people behind Jones are not as concerned about a successful verdict as they are about continuing the political damage against the president. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Perjury
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:31:54 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perjury charges seldom leads to jailing according to court observers when Mark Fuhrman pled guilty. It is pure idiocy to claim Susan McDougal is willing to spend years in jail for contempt of court to avoid the odd prospect of being tried and convicted of perjury for telling the truth. Oh yeah. It is also very difficult to get a perjury conviction. Clintonistas are not bound by the rules of logic or they wouldn't be clintonistas. Best, Terry Using your self proclaimed logic then one would conclude that, if McDougal was trying to cover up for Clinton, (which assumes he is guilty of some crime), then all she has to do is testify and lie to cover up that crime. This is logical according to your premise since people are very rarely charged with perjury and even when they are, they are very rarely convicted. Following your logic further, this is solid evidence that Clinton is not guilty of any crime in the Whitewater case and McDougal has other reasons for not testifying before the Grand Jury. It seems that Clinton haters are only bound by the rules of logic that THEY define and that supports their ill founded and rush to judgment theories. The hilarious thing is how they chant the innocent until proven guilty mantra when it's one of THEIR people who is on the hot seat. This destroys the one thing more important than logic. Their credibility. Best, Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Perhaps if we knew the entire story about how Ken Starr and his henchmen have conducted the investigation with her we would understand why she refuses to testify before a Grand Jury that they are running. A witness at a Grand Jury does not have the privilege of having a lawyer present as would be afforded at a Congressional hearing. Bill On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:03:15 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Her lawyer issued a statement this morning saying that if a congressional hearing is called she will testify. Or if another prosecutor is put in place she will testify. I just felt like she was telling the truth when I heard her in that interview. I really don't know why she would not testify and take her chances unless she has been threatened by one side or the other, or something along those lines. But she definitely is sticking to her convictions. I just can't see where she has anything to gain herself by not testifying. Sue _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Just the Truth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:59:01 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Did you detect a little sarcasm in my post LOL. Ron HI Ron, LOL..yes I did and it was a classic! I appreciate good sarcasm even when it's directed at me. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Exclusive: Bush Defends Starr - Second Letter on Starr
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, Politics is a strange and interesting endeavor. It is very interesting to watch the posturing and spinning on all sides of the issues. LOL..poor Bush Sr. Now I see they hauled out his quote about Rodney King for that show you posted the transcripts on. What next? Bill On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:29:37 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Think that is really what happened? Makes sense when you think of the fact that his son is in number one place, right now, to be the GOP candidate for President. Not to mention the number one person in the public polls to be the next president. Sue HI Sue, LOL.Damage Contol, damage controlGOP to Mr. Bush, GOP to Mr. Bushyou MUST write another letter...you MUST write another letter Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Linda McCartney's death
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:16:30 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: An investigation has been launched into the death of Linda McCartney, By the Santa Barbara Sheriffs. Sue Probably another Vast Right Wing Conspiracy that caused her metastatic breast cancersheesh!Ron HI Ron, Actually it appears to be a shameless invasion of the McCartney family's privacy by a snooping media. Add to that the knee jerk suspicion of conspiracy and the readily available Internet to spread rumors and you have a typical pile of hogwash. It's been revealed that she did not die in Santa Barbara, but died at a family ranch in Tucson. The family wanted to be left alone to grieve and didn't want a swarm of media people descending on them. Now a rumor is being spread that her death was really an assisted suicide. The family strongly denies it. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Evidence of New Planets Is Cited--Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: H Steve, Gee, it it's that easy why have we not seen clear cut evidence that it has happened before? :) Bill On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:59:22 +0100 Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Light travels at 186,000 miles per second, but not in a straight line as gravity can twist the fabric of space and light will curve. The fastest time someone could travel from there to here is no time at all. Take a piece of paper and put a point with a marker at one end.Start position Now but a point at the other end of the paperdestination fold the paper over and push it through. Welcome to the world of time and space travel. Steve W -Original Message- From: Ronald Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 8:41 PM Subject: Re: LI Evidence of New Planets Is Cited--Steve "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: WASHINGTON (AP) -- The clearest evidence yet of new worlds forming beyond the sun has been found by astronomers using sensitive new heat-seeking instruments focused on a star some 220 light-years from Earth. I watched that report with interest. 220 light years away, someone help me, how many miles does light travel in a year? They would have to have some incredible mode of travel to visit us in California :-) Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Once again, you are correct. She completed her 18 month sentence on the contempt of court ruling and is now serving the sentence for the crime she was convicted of. If she really is keeping quiet to protect Clinton one might wonder why a presidential pardon was not part of the deal. Bill On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:42:25 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: I thought that she had already been convicted on the embezzlement thing and that she was serving her sentence right now. In fact they had to go get her out of prison today to take her to the grand jury thing. She has been released from jail for the Starr thing. In fact she was released the same day her ex died. Am I wrong here? Sue Hi Sue, Does the last give you any hint why Susan McDougal might not want to testify before the grand jury besides her fantastic claim she will prosecuted for telling the truth? Susan is awaiting trial on an embezzlement charge. I agree with you she has been caught between big boys playing mean and dirty. It is illegal but common to torture recalcitrant witnesses who may even fear for their lives or that of family if they testify. The law says they must be released when it becomes obvious they will not submit to pressure. Obviously Susan has shown she never will (read can). But it is Clinton who holds the aces rather than Starr. Best, Terry -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
