Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-12 Thread Aaron Skonnard 
Hey Tom,
 
It's good to see you're back in Utah, helping out with the Church's software strategy. It's encouraging to see. I was down there several months ago having lunch with Ben Galbraith, and several architects throughout the group chatting them up on their SOA strategies - it was interesting. Anyway, I hope all is well with you and your family since the last time we spoke during the Axiom days. Take care,

 
-aaron 
 
On 6/8/06, Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to define an "open source" strategy for the Church.  What does this mean?  Well, for years the Church has been a heavy user of open source technology.  Many of the back-end systems are all based upon open source software.  In fact, the Church has contributed to certain open source projects with improvements that it has made.  Because of sensitivity issues, the Church has asked the individual developers to submit changes upstream in the developers name instead of the Church's name.  My role, however, is not to get the Church to use more open source software but is to figure out how we can leverage the OSS community to help build applications that the Church does not have the resources to do. 
A little bit about me:I am the former chief technology officer of Linspire, Inc. (formally known as Lindows).  I resigned my post at Linspire to work on this project as I can see the huge benefit that enlisting the LDS development community can provide to the Church and to Church members.  I was with Linspire from the very beginning and have watched that company grow and become a success and am still involved with the leadership board of 
Freespire.org (a completely free version of Linspire that will be available this summer).  I am also the author of the original scriptures reader that ran on the Palm and CE devices (EZ Reader).  I also wrote the original Franklin Day Planner software (Ascend) that was sold by Franklin Covey for years.  I've been around the "block" for many years and have seen the rise and success of open source software and I am very enthusiastic to be a part of it.
As you think of the Church and the work that they do from a technology front, most of the work is done to benefit the Church as a whole.  By this I mean that the Church spends almost all of their technology resources in building programs that run the Church (membership records, financial, assets, missionary, family history, temple, etc).  Very little "technology" money is spent benefiting individual members.  That is why there are no "Duty to God" tracking software, scouting software, family preparedness software, ward mission software, etc.  There are a lot of members that have written programs to help them in their Church callings but the Church has never really looked at or authorized any of these for use by the Church membership as a whole.
My job is to try and change all of this by enlisting the LDS development community.  So my first job is to try and build an infrastructure to allow us all to communicate and collaborate on projects.  This mailing list (and the 
ldssoss.org website) is a good starting point but my vision is to take it so much further.  In the coming weeks I will share much more of our plans.  Please be patient because I have a lot to do to work within the parameters at the Church. 
One point of caution, however:One of the biggest concerns the Church has with endorsing or sponsoring a LDS Developers site is that the content on the site could get out of control.  Flame wars, rude behavior, religious debate, or other non-Christlike behavior will not be tolerated by the Church and will get any such endorsed site "unendorsed".  So it is up to us to show everyone and prove that we can work as a community to build great software that will benefit users and do all of this in a cooperative and Christlike way.  WE need to self moderate.
Please feel free to contact me individually or through this list with ideas, questions, concerns, etc.  I'd love to hear all of your thoughts.Tom
-- Tom Welch[EMAIL PROTECTED](801) 240-1609(858) 829-4614 - Cell 
--
NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
 intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.

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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-12 Thread Jesse Stay 

I agree - I think we underestimate the desire for the (both LDS and
non-LDS) community to write our own versions of this software.  I
would love for the Church to provide an example for the community to
emulate (or some specs/license to abide by at first), and then release
the code for the community to write our own useful versions of the
software.  I think the APIs we keep hearing about will make all this
very possible.

Perhaps breaking up the new PAF into components, and then opening up a
community spec for developing each of those components may help get
one off the ground fairly quickly.  You could then pick and choose the
component you want to work on and work with other developers at the
church on that component.   There would be a spec for the church to
get what they want out of it, and then the code could finally be
released as true open-source when the project is finished.  I'd
definitely volunteer for such an effort.

Jesse

On 6/12/06, Manfred Riem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi all,

I actually have a partial port of the current PAF to Java, but haven't
had much time to work on it. It is able to read and write information
to some degree. It has been tested on Windows, Mac OSX and FreeBSD.

Unfortunately I can't open up the source since I had to sign a license
and so forth. So if the Church can somehow open up that license a bit
More we could be well on our way with an Open-Sourced PAF.

Kind regards,
Manfred Riem
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.manorrock.org/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Fry
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:26 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

As previously mentioned on this list, I think that PAF would be an excelent
piece of software for the Church to open source. It is something that almost
everyone needs and that many people use. In my experience most volunteer
software development is done by people working on software that they use and
care about. That is where much of the motivation comes from. This would make
PAF a prime candidate for open source development.

Charles

-Original Message-
> From: Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...
> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:26:52 -0600
> To: LDS Open Source Software 
> Reply-To: LDS Open Source Software 
>
> My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to
> define an "open source" strategy for the Church.  What does this mean?
> Well, for years the Church has been a heavy user of open source
technology.
> Many of the back-end systems are all based upon open source software.
> In fact, the Church has contributed to certain open source projects
> with improvements that it has made.  Because of sensitivity issues,
> the Church has asked the individual developers to submit changes
> upstream in the developers name instead of the Church's name.  My
> role, however, is not to get the Church to use more open source
> software but is to figure out how we can leverage the OSS community to
> help build applications that the Church does not have the resources to do.
>
> *A little bit about me:*
>
> I am the former chief technology officer of Linspire, Inc
> <http://www.linspire.com>. (formally known as Lindows).  I resigned my
> post at Linspire to work on this project as I can see the huge benefit
> that enlisting the LDS development community can provide to the Church
> and to Church members.  I was with Linspire from the very beginning
> and have watched that company grow and become a success and am still
> involved with the leadership board of Freespire.org
> <http://www.freespire.org> (a completely free version of Linspire that
> will be available this summer).  I am also the author of the original
> scriptures reader that ran on the Palm and CE devices (EZ Reader).  I
> also wrote the original Franklin Day Planner software (Ascend) that
> was sold by Franklin Covey for years.  I've been around the "block"
> for many years and have seen the rise and success of open source
> software and I am very enthusiastic to be a part of it.
>
> As you think of the Church and the work that they do from a technology
> front, most of the work is done to benefit the Church as a whole.  By
> this I mean that the Church spends almost all of their technology
> resources in building programs that run the Church (membership
> records, financial, assets, missionary, family history, temple, etc).
> Very little "technology" money is spent benefiting individual members.
> That is why there are no "Duty to God" tracking software, scouting
> software, family preparedness software, ward mission software, etc.
> There are a lot of members that have written

Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-12 Thread Shane Hathaway 
Charles Fry wrote:
> As previously mentioned on this list, I think that PAF would be an
> excelent piece of software for the Church to open source. It is
> something that almost everyone needs and that many people use. In my
> experience most volunteer software development is done by people working
> on software that they use and care about. That is where much of the
> motivation comes from. This would make PAF a prime candidate for open
> source development.

I've heard discussions at the church about making PAF open source, but
the idea always gets a chilly reception.  No one has given me a
particular reason why it's a bad idea; they just don't seem to like it.
 My guesses:

- perhaps the code is embarrassingly ugly
- perhaps the code includes proprietary libraries
- perhaps it would hurt commercial genealogy software
- perhaps it's not aligned with our intended open source strategy

These are all excuses, though.  Ugly code?  Have some humility, just
release it.  Proprietary libraries?  Release the code in a nonfunctional
state, without the proprietary libraries, and let the community clean it
up.  Hurt commercial software?  Maybe for a short time, but there's a
lot of room for innovation; innovators will still sell.  Not aligned
with our strategy?  If that's so, then our strategy is not aligned with
the standard open source strategy, which is to release early and often.

So I'm a bit annoyed that the church hasn't released it.  However, PAF
currently has few advantages over GRAMPS and PHPGedView, so the open
source community may catch up anyway, at least in terms of functionality.

Shane

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RE: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-12 Thread Manfred Riem 
Hi all,

I actually have a partial port of the current PAF to Java, but haven't
had much time to work on it. It is able to read and write information
to some degree. It has been tested on Windows, Mac OSX and FreeBSD.

Unfortunately I can't open up the source since I had to sign a license
and so forth. So if the Church can somehow open up that license a bit
More we could be well on our way with an Open-Sourced PAF.

Kind regards,
Manfred Riem
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.manorrock.org/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Fry
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:26 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

As previously mentioned on this list, I think that PAF would be an excelent
piece of software for the Church to open source. It is something that almost
everyone needs and that many people use. In my experience most volunteer
software development is done by people working on software that they use and
care about. That is where much of the motivation comes from. This would make
PAF a prime candidate for open source development.

Charles

-Original Message-
> From: Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...
> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:26:52 -0600
> To: LDS Open Source Software 
> Reply-To: LDS Open Source Software 
> 
> My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to 
> define an "open source" strategy for the Church.  What does this mean?  
> Well, for years the Church has been a heavy user of open source
technology.
> Many of the back-end systems are all based upon open source software.  
> In fact, the Church has contributed to certain open source projects 
> with improvements that it has made.  Because of sensitivity issues, 
> the Church has asked the individual developers to submit changes 
> upstream in the developers name instead of the Church's name.  My 
> role, however, is not to get the Church to use more open source 
> software but is to figure out how we can leverage the OSS community to 
> help build applications that the Church does not have the resources to do.
> 
> *A little bit about me:*
> 
> I am the former chief technology officer of Linspire, Inc 
> <http://www.linspire.com>. (formally known as Lindows).  I resigned my 
> post at Linspire to work on this project as I can see the huge benefit 
> that enlisting the LDS development community can provide to the Church 
> and to Church members.  I was with Linspire from the very beginning 
> and have watched that company grow and become a success and am still 
> involved with the leadership board of Freespire.org 
> <http://www.freespire.org> (a completely free version of Linspire that 
> will be available this summer).  I am also the author of the original 
> scriptures reader that ran on the Palm and CE devices (EZ Reader).  I 
> also wrote the original Franklin Day Planner software (Ascend) that 
> was sold by Franklin Covey for years.  I've been around the "block" 
> for many years and have seen the rise and success of open source 
> software and I am very enthusiastic to be a part of it.
> 
> As you think of the Church and the work that they do from a technology 
> front, most of the work is done to benefit the Church as a whole.  By 
> this I mean that the Church spends almost all of their technology 
> resources in building programs that run the Church (membership 
> records, financial, assets, missionary, family history, temple, etc).  
> Very little "technology" money is spent benefiting individual members.  
> That is why there are no "Duty to God" tracking software, scouting 
> software, family preparedness software, ward mission software, etc.  
> There are a lot of members that have written programs to help them in 
> their Church callings but the Church has never really looked at or 
> authorized any of these for use by the Church membership as a whole.
> 
> My job is to try and change all of this by enlisting the LDS 
> development community.  So my first job is to try and build an 
> infrastructure to allow us all to communicate and collaborate on 
> projects.  This mailing list (and the ldssoss.org website) is a good 
> starting point but my vision is to take it so much further.  In the 
> coming weeks I will share much more of our plans.  Please be patient 
> because I have a lot to do to work within the parameters at the Church.
> 
> *One point of caution, however:*
> 
> One of the biggest concerns the Church has with endorsing or 
> sponsoring a LDS Developers site is that the content on the site could 
> get out of control.  Flame wars, rude behavior, religious debate, or 
> other non-Chr

Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-12 Thread Jesse Stay 

Actually, I think the church already is in the process of
Open-Sourcing PAF - I interviewed for a position working on this team:

http://ldschurch.recruitsoft.com/servlets/CareerSection?art_ip_action=FlowDispatcher&flowTypeNo=13&pageSeq=2&reqNo=15700&art_servlet_language=en&csNo=2

Jesse

On 6/12/06, Charles Fry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

As previously mentioned on this list, I think that PAF would be an
excelent piece of software for the Church to open source. It is
something that almost everyone needs and that many people use. In my
experience most volunteer software development is done by people working
on software that they use and care about. That is where much of the
motivation comes from. This would make PAF a prime candidate for open
source development.

Charles

-Original Message-
> From: Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...
> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:26:52 -0600
> To: LDS Open Source Software 
> Reply-To: LDS Open Source Software 
>
> My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to define
> an "open source" strategy for the Church.  What does this mean?  Well,
> for years the Church has been a heavy user of open source technology.
> Many of the back-end systems are all based upon open source software.
> In fact, the Church has contributed to certain open source projects with
> improvements that it has made.  Because of sensitivity issues, the
> Church has asked the individual developers to submit changes upstream in
> the developers name instead of the Church's name.  My role, however, is
> not to get the Church to use more open source software but is to figure
> out how we can leverage the OSS community to help build applications
> that the Church does not have the resources to do.
>
> *A little bit about me:*
>
> I am the former chief technology officer of Linspire, Inc
> . (formally known as Lindows).  I resigned my
> post at Linspire to work on this project as I can see the huge benefit
> that enlisting the LDS development community can provide to the Church
> and to Church members.  I was with Linspire from the very beginning and
> have watched that company grow and become a success and am still
> involved with the leadership board of Freespire.org
>  (a completely free version of Linspire that
> will be available this summer).  I am also the author of the original
> scriptures reader that ran on the Palm and CE devices (EZ Reader).  I
> also wrote the original Franklin Day Planner software (Ascend) that was
> sold by Franklin Covey for years.  I've been around the "block" for many
> years and have seen the rise and success of open source software and I
> am very enthusiastic to be a part of it.
>
> As you think of the Church and the work that they do from a technology
> front, most of the work is done to benefit the Church as a whole.  By
> this I mean that the Church spends almost all of their technology
> resources in building programs that run the Church (membership records,
> financial, assets, missionary, family history, temple, etc).  Very
> little "technology" money is spent benefiting individual members.  That
> is why there are no "Duty to God" tracking software, scouting software,
> family preparedness software, ward mission software, etc.  There are a
> lot of members that have written programs to help them in their Church
> callings but the Church has never really looked at or authorized any of
> these for use by the Church membership as a whole.
>
> My job is to try and change all of this by enlisting the LDS development
> community.  So my first job is to try and build an infrastructure to
> allow us all to communicate and collaborate on projects.  This mailing
> list (and the ldssoss.org website) is a good starting point but my
> vision is to take it so much further.  In the coming weeks I will share
> much more of our plans.  Please be patient because I have a lot to do to
> work within the parameters at the Church.
>
> *One point of caution, however:*
>
> One of the biggest concerns the Church has with endorsing or sponsoring
> a LDS Developers site is that the content on the site could get out of
> control.  Flame wars, rude behavior, religious debate, or other
> non-Christlike behavior will not be tolerated by the Church and will get
> any such endorsed site "unendorsed".  So it is up to us to show everyone
> and prove that we can work as a community to build great software that
> will benefit users and do all of this in a cooperative and Christlike
> way.  WE need to self moderate.
>
> Please feel free to contact me individually or through this list with
> ideas, questions, concerns, etc.  I'd love to hear all of your thoughts.
>
> Tom
> --
> Tom Welch
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (801) 240-1609
> (858) 829-4614 - Cell
>
> --
>
>
> NOTICE: This email message is for the sole us

Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-12 Thread Charles Fry 
As previously mentioned on this list, I think that PAF would be an
excelent piece of software for the Church to open source. It is
something that almost everyone needs and that many people use. In my
experience most volunteer software development is done by people working
on software that they use and care about. That is where much of the
motivation comes from. This would make PAF a prime candidate for open
source development.

Charles

-Original Message-
> From: Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...
> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:26:52 -0600
> To: LDS Open Source Software 
> Reply-To: LDS Open Source Software 
> 
> My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to define 
> an "open source" strategy for the Church.  What does this mean?  Well, 
> for years the Church has been a heavy user of open source technology.  
> Many of the back-end systems are all based upon open source software.  
> In fact, the Church has contributed to certain open source projects with 
> improvements that it has made.  Because of sensitivity issues, the 
> Church has asked the individual developers to submit changes upstream in 
> the developers name instead of the Church's name.  My role, however, is 
> not to get the Church to use more open source software but is to figure 
> out how we can leverage the OSS community to help build applications 
> that the Church does not have the resources to do.
> 
> *A little bit about me:*
> 
> I am the former chief technology officer of Linspire, Inc 
> . (formally known as Lindows).  I resigned my 
> post at Linspire to work on this project as I can see the huge benefit 
> that enlisting the LDS development community can provide to the Church 
> and to Church members.  I was with Linspire from the very beginning and 
> have watched that company grow and become a success and am still 
> involved with the leadership board of Freespire.org 
>  (a completely free version of Linspire that 
> will be available this summer).  I am also the author of the original 
> scriptures reader that ran on the Palm and CE devices (EZ Reader).  I 
> also wrote the original Franklin Day Planner software (Ascend) that was 
> sold by Franklin Covey for years.  I've been around the "block" for many 
> years and have seen the rise and success of open source software and I 
> am very enthusiastic to be a part of it.
> 
> As you think of the Church and the work that they do from a technology 
> front, most of the work is done to benefit the Church as a whole.  By 
> this I mean that the Church spends almost all of their technology 
> resources in building programs that run the Church (membership records, 
> financial, assets, missionary, family history, temple, etc).  Very 
> little "technology" money is spent benefiting individual members.  That 
> is why there are no "Duty to God" tracking software, scouting software, 
> family preparedness software, ward mission software, etc.  There are a 
> lot of members that have written programs to help them in their Church 
> callings but the Church has never really looked at or authorized any of 
> these for use by the Church membership as a whole.
> 
> My job is to try and change all of this by enlisting the LDS development 
> community.  So my first job is to try and build an infrastructure to 
> allow us all to communicate and collaborate on projects.  This mailing 
> list (and the ldssoss.org website) is a good starting point but my 
> vision is to take it so much further.  In the coming weeks I will share 
> much more of our plans.  Please be patient because I have a lot to do to 
> work within the parameters at the Church.
> 
> *One point of caution, however:*
> 
> One of the biggest concerns the Church has with endorsing or sponsoring 
> a LDS Developers site is that the content on the site could get out of 
> control.  Flame wars, rude behavior, religious debate, or other 
> non-Christlike behavior will not be tolerated by the Church and will get 
> any such endorsed site "unendorsed".  So it is up to us to show everyone 
> and prove that we can work as a community to build great software that 
> will benefit users and do all of this in a cooperative and Christlike 
> way.  WE need to self moderate.
> 
> Please feel free to contact me individually or through this list with 
> ideas, questions, concerns, etc.  I'd love to hear all of your thoughts.
> 
> Tom
> -- 
> Tom Welch
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (801) 240-1609
> (858) 829-4614 - Cell
> 
> --
> 
> 
> NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
> disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
> and destroy all copies of the o

RE: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-09 Thread Manfred Riem 
Hehehehehe,

Good one ;) Maybe we should consider something like the Google Summer code
camps?

Manfred Riem
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.manorrock.org/ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Hathaway
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 7:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

Jesse Stay wrote:
> You may want to try the Family History Department.  They are also 
> moving in the direction of OSS, and there are a couple teams hiring 
> there.

Yep, my group is hiring, and we really need more people who are educated in
open source methodology and tools.  I feel awfully lonely sometimes!
 I'd like to work with someone else who's not afraid of functional
programming, dynamic languages, portable code, distributed systems, kernel
hacking, emacs, vi, and Gentoo. :-)

Shane

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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Nathan 

On 6/8/06, Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Jesse Stay wrote:
> You may want to try the Family History Department.  They are also
> moving in the direction of OSS, and there are a couple teams hiring
> there.

Yep, my group is hiring, and we really need more people who are educated
in open source methodology and tools.  I feel awfully lonely sometimes!
 I'd like to work with someone else who's not afraid of functional
programming, dynamic languages, portable code, distributed systems,
kernel hacking, emacs, vi, and Gentoo. :-)


I'm not afraid!

...but I've already got a good job with people I like, and there's no
way I'd commute to SLC  :-P

I feel sorry for you, though.  Everyone's afraid of emacs AND vi up
there?  I mean, I can understand being afraid of one or the
other...but both?  Poor guy.  I'm lucky, in my immediate work area
everyone uses OS X and Linux, and we all at least know how to exit out
of emacs and vi, even if not everyone uses both.

~ Nathan
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RE: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Dave Wormell 
Glad to hear the Church hired you. I believe a church provided mailing
list and website with account logins would be the best method to
maintain a Christ like atmosphere. If someone abuses the privilege then
deny the account.


If any assistance is needed with PHP I would be honored to make a
contribution.




--dave wormell
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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Shane Hathaway 
Jesse Stay wrote:
> You may want to try the Family History Department.  They are also
> moving in the direction of OSS, and there are a couple teams hiring
> there.

Yep, my group is hiring, and we really need more people who are educated
in open source methodology and tools.  I feel awfully lonely sometimes!
 I'd like to work with someone else who's not afraid of functional
programming, dynamic languages, portable code, distributed systems,
kernel hacking, emacs, vi, and Gentoo. :-)

Shane

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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Jesse Stay 

You may want to try the Family History Department.  They are also
moving in the direction of OSS, and there are a couple teams hiring
there.

Jesse

On 6/8/06, Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

No job openings...sorry ;)

Tom

Slide wrote:
> Is there a new team at the Church that you are heading, or is it
> pulling from resources already within the Church's development group?
> I guess the main question is, are there going to be job openings? ;-)
> j/k
>
> On 6/8/06, Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Richard K Miller wrote:
>> >
>> > One thought I want to throw out is the importance of open APIs even
>> > when the code can't be open.  For instance, I doubt that MIS will ever
>> > be open sourced (understandably).  But as Dan Hanks has mentioned,
>> > offering an API with the same authentications and permissions as the
>> > web app would allow individual units to creatively solve problems they
>> > deal with.  They could automate the populating of a calendar with
>> > birthdays, or map out their ward members' addresses, or download
>> > birthdays and phone numbers into a PDA.  (All these have come up on
>> > this list.)  Jonathan Schwartz had said that it doesn't matter that
>> > Java isn't open source because the APIs are open and are decided by a
>> > community process.  Similarly, APIs for the ward directory, ward
>> > calendar, Boy Scouts, Young Women's, genealogy, etc. would spawn an
>> > ecosystem of development and volunteerism even if the code can't be
>> > open sourced (though that would be nice too.)
>> >
>> This has been discussed internally and it is our wish to create API's as
>> well.  It will take time for this to evolve but it is something we plan
>> on offering.  API's for not only the MIS but potentially other systems,
>> such as API's to the unit website calendar, etc.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Richard K. Miller
>> > www.richardkmiller.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Ldsoss mailing list
>> > Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
>> > http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Tom Welch
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> (801) 240-1609
>> (858) 829-4614 - Cell
>>
>>
>> 
--
>>
>>
>>
>> NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the
>>  intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
>>  privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
>>  disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
>>  intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
>>  and destroy all copies of the original message.
>>
>> 
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>>
>>
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> ___
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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Tom Welch 




Excellent!  Look forward to having you help out!

Tom

Brice Hunt wrote:

  
Tom Welch wrote:
  


My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to
define an "open source" strategy for the Church. What does this mean? 
Well, for years the Church has been a heavy user of open source
technology.  Many of the back-end systems are all based upon open
source software.  In fact, the Church has contributed to certain open
source projects with improvements that it has made.  Because of
sensitivity issues, the Church has asked the individual developers to
submit changes upstream in the developers name instead of the Church's
name.  My role, however, is not to get the Church to use more open
source software but is to figure out how we can leverage the OSS
community to help build applications that the Church does not have the
resources to do. 
  
Hi, Tom.  My name is Brice Hunt.  Welcome to the list.  For years
(since graduating college in 2002), I have been trying to get a
programming job at all sorts of places and have very consistently had
my resume screened out by human resource departments everywhere
(including the Church's HR department--but that was before the more
recent hiring procedures were put into place for the technology
departments).  The
few times that I have been able to directly contact a hiring manager,
it quickly became obvious that they were looking for someone with a lot
of previous management experience that could step right into the
management role or were looking for interns because they didn't want or
couldn't afford to pay a wage that would support a small family.  I
always ended up going to work for a farmer or a construction company (I
don't mind physical labor, I just love programming more). 
As my wife completes her A.A.S. degree in drafting and  is working in
her field of study, she is earning more money now than I ever have in
my entire life.  What does this mean to you?  It means that I am a
stay-at-home dad that home-schools my children, that is able to write
programs, and that has about 10-20 hours of spare time per week (most
weeks--not this summer, though) that I could dedicate to working on
open source projects in ways that would directly benefit the church. 
All I need is to be told what project to work on (or start) and what
functionality the church needs to add to the project (or what the goal
of the new project is).
  
  One
point of caution, however:

One of the biggest concerns the Church has with endorsing or sponsoring
a LDS Developers site is that the content on the site could get out of
control.  Flame wars, rude behavior, religious debate, or other
non-Christlike behavior will not be tolerated by the Church and will
get any such endorsed site "unendorsed".  So it is up to us to show
everyone and prove that we can work as a community to build great
software that will benefit users and do all of this in a cooperative
and Christlike way.  WE need to self moderate.
  
One thing I have observed is that the "flame wars" on this list seem to
be much more tame than on many other lists I've seen (e.g. Provo Linux
Users' Group).  I believe that with a little moderation from an
official within the church, the list would be even more tame and
cooperative because we could get official word on proper use of
information and church policy (seems to be the areas of most
contention) instead of endless debate.
  
Brice Hunt
  

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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Tom Welch 

No job openings...sorry ;)

Tom

Slide wrote:

Is there a new team at the Church that you are heading, or is it
pulling from resources already within the Church's development group?
I guess the main question is, are there going to be job openings? ;-)
j/k

On 6/8/06, Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Richard K Miller wrote:
>
> One thought I want to throw out is the importance of open APIs even
> when the code can't be open.  For instance, I doubt that MIS will ever
> be open sourced (understandably).  But as Dan Hanks has mentioned,
> offering an API with the same authentications and permissions as the
> web app would allow individual units to creatively solve problems they
> deal with.  They could automate the populating of a calendar with
> birthdays, or map out their ward members' addresses, or download
> birthdays and phone numbers into a PDA.  (All these have come up on
> this list.)  Jonathan Schwartz had said that it doesn't matter that
> Java isn't open source because the APIs are open and are decided by a
> community process.  Similarly, APIs for the ward directory, ward
> calendar, Boy Scouts, Young Women's, genealogy, etc. would spawn an
> ecosystem of development and volunteerism even if the code can't be
> open sourced (though that would be nice too.)
>
This has been discussed internally and it is our wish to create API's as
well.  It will take time for this to evolve but it is something we plan
on offering.  API's for not only the MIS but potentially other systems,
such as API's to the unit website calendar, etc.
>
>
>
> ---
> Richard K. Miller
> www.richardkmiller.com
>
>
>
> ___
> Ldsoss mailing list
> Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
> http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
>

--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(801) 240-1609
(858) 829-4614 - Cell


-- 




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 privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
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 intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Charles Fry 
> > One of the biggest concerns the Church has with endorsing or
> > sponsoring a LDS Developers site is that the content on the site could
> > get out of control.  Flame wars, rude behavior, religious debate, or
> > other non-Christlike behavior will not be tolerated by the Church and
> > will get any such endorsed site "unendorsed".  So it is up to us to
> > show everyone and prove that we can work as a community to build great
> > software that will benefit users and do all of this in a cooperative
> > and Christlike way.  WE need to self moderate.
> One thing I have observed is that the "flame wars" on this list seem to
> be much more tame than on many other lists I've seen (e.g. Provo Linux
> Users' Group).  I believe that with a little moderation from an official
> within the church, the list would be even more tame and cooperative
> because we could get official word on proper use of information and
> church policy (seems to be the areas of most contention) instead of
> endless debate.

I don't think that we really want to formally moderate this mailing
list. Further, I don't think that this mailing list should ever be
"official". If the Church starts Libre projects, they should have their
own associated mailing lists, and even then I doubt they should be
moderated. However there should be some enforcable expectation of
mailing list posts made by active project participants (i.e. poor
behavior should be allowed, but have its consequences).

Charles

-- 
Within this vale
Of toil
And sin
Your head grows bald
But not your chin
Burma-Shave
http://burma-shave.org/jingles/1955/within_this_vale
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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Brice Hunt 




Tom Welch wrote:

  
  
My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to
define an "open source" strategy for the Church. What does this mean? 
Well, for years the Church has been a heavy user of open source
technology.  Many of the back-end systems are all based upon open
source software.  In fact, the Church has contributed to certain open
source projects with improvements that it has made.  Because of
sensitivity issues, the Church has asked the individual developers to
submit changes upstream in the developers name instead of the Church's
name.  My role, however, is not to get the Church to use more open
source software but is to figure out how we can leverage the OSS
community to help build applications that the Church does not have the
resources to do. 

Hi, Tom.  My name is Brice Hunt.  Welcome to the list.  For years
(since graduating college in 2002), I have been trying to get a
programming job at all sorts of places and have very consistently had
my resume screened out by human resource departments everywhere
(including the Church's HR department--but that was before the more
recent hiring procedures were put into place for the technology
departments).  The
few times that I have been able to directly contact a hiring manager,
it quickly became obvious that they were looking for someone with a lot
of previous management experience that could step right into the
management role or were looking for interns because they didn't want or
couldn't afford to pay a wage that would support a small family.  I
always ended up going to work for a farmer or a construction company (I
don't mind physical labor, I just love programming more). 
As my wife completes her A.A.S. degree in drafting and  is working in
her field of study, she is earning more money now than I ever have in
my entire life.  What does this mean to you?  It means that I am a
stay-at-home dad that home-schools my children, that is able to write
programs, and that has about 10-20 hours of spare time per week (most
weeks--not this summer, though) that I could dedicate to working on
open source projects in ways that would directly benefit the church. 
All I need is to be told what project to work on (or start) and what
functionality the church needs to add to the project (or what the goal
of the new project is).

One
point of caution, however:
  
One of the biggest concerns the Church has with endorsing or sponsoring
a LDS Developers site is that the content on the site could get out of
control.  Flame wars, rude behavior, religious debate, or other
non-Christlike behavior will not be tolerated by the Church and will
get any such endorsed site "unendorsed".  So it is up to us to show
everyone and prove that we can work as a community to build great
software that will benefit users and do all of this in a cooperative
and Christlike way.  WE need to self moderate.

One thing I have observed is that the "flame wars" on this list seem to
be much more tame than on many other lists I've seen (e.g. Provo Linux
Users' Group).  I believe that with a little moderation from an
official within the church, the list would be even more tame and
cooperative because we could get official word on proper use of
information and church policy (seems to be the areas of most
contention) instead of endless debate.

Brice Hunt


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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Slide 

Is there a new team at the Church that you are heading, or is it
pulling from resources already within the Church's development group?
I guess the main question is, are there going to be job openings? ;-)
j/k

On 6/8/06, Tom Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Richard K Miller wrote:
>
> One thought I want to throw out is the importance of open APIs even
> when the code can't be open.  For instance, I doubt that MIS will ever
> be open sourced (understandably).  But as Dan Hanks has mentioned,
> offering an API with the same authentications and permissions as the
> web app would allow individual units to creatively solve problems they
> deal with.  They could automate the populating of a calendar with
> birthdays, or map out their ward members' addresses, or download
> birthdays and phone numbers into a PDA.  (All these have come up on
> this list.)  Jonathan Schwartz had said that it doesn't matter that
> Java isn't open source because the APIs are open and are decided by a
> community process.  Similarly, APIs for the ward directory, ward
> calendar, Boy Scouts, Young Women's, genealogy, etc. would spawn an
> ecosystem of development and volunteerism even if the code can't be
> open sourced (though that would be nice too.)
>
This has been discussed internally and it is our wish to create API's as
well.  It will take time for this to evolve but it is something we plan
on offering.  API's for not only the MIS but potentially other systems,
such as API's to the unit website calendar, etc.
>
>
>
> ---
> Richard K. Miller
> www.richardkmiller.com
>
>
>
> ___
> Ldsoss mailing list
> Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
> http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
>

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(801) 240-1609
(858) 829-4614 - Cell


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 privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Tom Welch 



Richard K Miller wrote:


One thought I want to throw out is the importance of open APIs even 
when the code can't be open.  For instance, I doubt that MIS will ever 
be open sourced (understandably).  But as Dan Hanks has mentioned, 
offering an API with the same authentications and permissions as the 
web app would allow individual units to creatively solve problems they 
deal with.  They could automate the populating of a calendar with 
birthdays, or map out their ward members' addresses, or download 
birthdays and phone numbers into a PDA.  (All these have come up on 
this list.)  Jonathan Schwartz had said that it doesn't matter that 
Java isn't open source because the APIs are open and are decided by a 
community process.  Similarly, APIs for the ward directory, ward 
calendar, Boy Scouts, Young Women's, genealogy, etc. would spawn an 
ecosystem of development and volunteerism even if the code can't be 
open sourced (though that would be nice too.)


This has been discussed internally and it is our wish to create API's as 
well.  It will take time for this to evolve but it is something we plan 
on offering.  API's for not only the MIS but potentially other systems, 
such as API's to the unit website calendar, etc.




---
Richard K. Miller
www.richardkmiller.com



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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Richard K Miller 



On Jun 8, 2006, at 8:26 AM, Tom Welch wrote:

My name is Tom Welch.  I was recently recruited by the  Church to  
define an "open source" strategy for the Church.  What does this  
mean?  Well, for years the Church has been a heavy user of open  
source technology.  Many of the back-end systems are all based upon  
open source software.  In fact, the Church has contributed to  
certain open source projects with improvements that it has made.   
Because of sensitivity issues, the Church has asked the individual  
developers to submit changes upstream in the developers name  
instead of the Church's name.  My role, however, is not to get the  
Church to use more open source software but is to figure out how we  
can leverage the OSS community to help build applications that the  
Church does not have the resources to do.


I'm excited for the Church to more fully use open source!  I think  
open source software can help save the widow's mite for better uses,  
and I believe there are dozens of talented developers on this list  
that will be glad to put their skills to work for the Church.   
Congratulations on your new position, and I'm glad to see the Church  
taking this stance.


One thought I want to throw out is the importance of open APIs even  
when the code can't be open.  For instance, I doubt that MIS will  
ever be open sourced (understandably).  But as Dan Hanks has  
mentioned, offering an API with the same authentications and  
permissions as the web app would allow individual units to creatively  
solve problems they deal with.  They could automate the populating of  
a calendar with birthdays, or map out their ward members' addresses,  
or download birthdays and phone numbers into a PDA.  (All these have  
come up on this list.)  Jonathan Schwartz had said that it doesn't  
matter that Java isn't open source because the APIs are open and are  
decided by a community process.  Similarly, APIs for the ward  
directory, ward calendar, Boy Scouts, Young Women's, genealogy, etc.  
would spawn an ecosystem of development and volunteerism even if the  
code can't be open sourced (though that would be nice too.)


Richard




---
Richard K. Miller
www.richardkmiller.com



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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Tom Welch 




Well said!

Tom

Thomas Haws wrote:
Tom Welch,
  
Your message highlights the great truth that spirituality is not
separable from our work as developers.  We cannot rise to the pinnacle
of our technical capabilities without developing in parallel our
socio-psycho-spiritual maturity as individuals and as a community. 
Jimbo Wales, founder of Wikipedia, courageously inserts this idea of
spirituality into interviews as a matter of habit by explaining matter
of factly that the real issue on which Wikipedia rises or falls is
Love--love for the world and love for the individuals in the community.
  
  
There was not long ago a great example of such a self-moderating LDS
forum where serious (?) work was done in an atmosphere of spiritual
maturity.  On the SAMU-L (Scriptural Antiquities and
Mormonism--Uncontentious) mailing list in the 1990s the tone was one of
peace, forebearance, and reverence.  So it can be done with
commitment.  Perhaps the parameter "Uncontentious" in the title was
key; sometimes we need a little reminder.
  
  
Thank you for sharing a wonderful introduction to yourself and a
wonderful vision for a new relationship between the LDS Church and the
LDS software development community through FLOSS ideals.  May we rise
to the vision.
  
-- 
Tom Haws 480-201-5476
OpenOffice.org v. MS Office:  Kids love OOo.  Wife didn't notice I
switched.  Get OOo free.
"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that
I am prepared to kill for" Gandhi
  

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Re: [Ldsoss] Let me formally introduce myself...

2006-06-08 Thread Thomas Haws 
Tom Welch,Your message highlights the great truth that spirituality is not separable from our work as developers.  We cannot rise to the pinnacle of our technical capabilities without developing in parallel our socio-psycho-spiritual maturity as individuals and as a community.  Jimbo Wales, founder of Wikipedia, courageously inserts this idea of spirituality into interviews as a matter of habit by explaining matter of factly that the real issue on which Wikipedia rises or falls is Love--love for the world and love for the individuals in the community.
There was not long ago a great example of such a self-moderating LDS forum where serious (?) work was done in an atmosphere of spiritual maturity.  On the SAMU-L (Scriptural Antiquities and Mormonism--Uncontentious) mailing list in the 1990s the tone was one of peace, forebearance, and reverence.  So it can be done with commitment.  Perhaps the parameter "Uncontentious" in the title was key; sometimes we need a little reminder.
Thank you for sharing a wonderful introduction to yourself and a
wonderful vision for a new relationship between the LDS Church and the
LDS software development community through FLOSS ideals.  May we rise to the vision.

-- Tom Haws 480-201-5476OpenOffice.org v. MS Office:  Kids love OOo.  Wife didn't notice I switched.  Get OOo free."There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for" Gandhi
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