leointeg installation feedback

[Ville M. Vainio]

I was trying to install the leo vscode plugin, and noted that it requires
leo installation directory etc.

If you have installed Leo with pip, this could all be optional, as you get
the directory by:

 python -c "import leo; import os; print(os.path.dirname(leo.__file__))"

(or somesuch)

Similarly, leo editor launch could be done by creating __main__.py in leo,
then you could launch leo by doing "python -m leo" without any knowledge
about directories

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Re: ENB: About mypy

[Ville M. Vainio]

FWIW, I noted that mypy is much better when run in --strict mode.
Otherwise, mypy will ignore some clear errors.

Also, there are some tools that can automate creating mypy annotations:
https://mypy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/existing_code.html#automate-annotation-of-legacy-code

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 2:51 PM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> An update.
>
> > Imo, static type checking adds little to python. If you want proper type
> checking, try rust or other typed languages.
>
> That's a hasty verdict. mypy runs off of annotations, so it's unfair to
> expect mypy to be much help without them!
>
> The annotations of the types returned from functions and methods are
> likely to be the most important. Such annotations cut the Gordian knot of
> type inferences. Local inferences are straightforward; inferring return
> types is much harder.
>
> > Impatience is the clear enemy here. The work is mundane, but I must not
> introduce any new bugs!
>
> Yesterday I completed the annotations for leoGlobals.py so that mypy now
> passes launchLeo.py.
>
> The work was indeed tedious. Afterward, I thought that a wax-on script,
> the companion of wax-off, would have saved me much of the tedium. But wait.
> Adding annotations for returned types is much harder than adding
> annotations for arguments, and wax-on would not help.
>
> Oh my. As I write this, I think I remember that my old make_stub_files (
> *msb*) project calculates returned types based on pattern matches of the
> values of all "return" statements. *Aha!* Time to experiment with msb!
>
> *Summary*
>
> Aha! My old make_stub_files project may be more valuable than I
> remembered. I'll delay writing the wax-on script.
>
> My focus for Leo 6.4 is to complete Leo's mypy command. I'll also
> carefully fix any bugs that mypy reveals.
>
> Except for leoGlobals.pyi, I will create no new stub files for Leo 6.4. I
> will *not* add annotations to Leo's source files themselves.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: ENB: Rust, Leo and Python

[Ville M. Vainio]

Quick note: Rust use for desktop apps is pretty much non-existent.

Most interesting "excuse" to use Rust could be using something like
https://github.com/PyO3/, to be used for creating native modules for use
from python

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Re: Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks, this is what I needed :)

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:45 PM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 1:58 AM Ville M. Vainio 
> wrote:
>
>> It requires contextual knowledge like "what is a theme file". The
>> question promises to answer the question about dark theme in particular, so
>> could add that to the example?
>>
>
> Good point. I have generalized the question and the answer:
> http://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#how-do-i-enable-a-theme-leo-file
>
> Edward
>
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> .
>

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Re: Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

It requires contextual knowledge like "what is a theme file". The question
promises to answer the question about dark theme in particular, so could
add that to the example?

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:15 PM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ville M. Vainio 
> wrote:
>
>> I have forgotten how to enable dark theme in Leo :).
>>
>> Googling brings up the FAQ:
>> https://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#how-can-i-use-a-dark-theme-in-leo
>>
>> ...but it's horribly technical. Time to improve the FAQ or the enabling
>> process?
>>
>
> I'm finally getting around to this. I don't think this is too nerdy:
> QQQ
> To enable a theme .leo file, put the following setting in
> myLeoSettings.leo:
> @string theme-name = 
> QQQ
>
> True, the rest of the FAQ entry is tedious, but that's only for custom
> themes.
>
> Edward
>
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> .
>

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Re: Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks for the wishes, we are doing fine. Schools in .fi are closed so
"home schooling" my sons, and working from home

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 7:15 PM Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> Hey,
>>
>
> Hi Ville! Nice to "see" you. I hope you and yours are doing well, being
> safe and healthy.
>
> -matt
>
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> 
> .
>

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Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

Hey,

Somehow, I have forgetter how to enable dark theme in Leo :).

Googling brings up the FAQ:
https://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#how-can-i-use-a-dark-theme-in-leo

...but it's horribly technical. Time to improve the FAQ or the enabling
process?

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Re: Keyboard hygiene

[Ville M. Vainio]

I am using these "lifestyle tweaks" with good success (ordered by increase
in difficulty, not necessarily priority ;):

- Mapped caps lock to ctrl

- Started using laptop touchpad instead of mouse. Touchpad is a bit slower,
but way more ergonomic. If I had a choice, I would pick macbook touchpad
over anything available for PC

- Made my own dvorak-derived keyboard layout:
https://github.com/vivainio/coder-dvorak

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 6:33 PM, john lunzer  wrote:

> Remapping your keyboard can also give you additional options, for example
> a quite popular one is to remap Caps Lock to Ctrl.
>
> Additionally you can consider computer foot pedals
>  which
> can activate modifier keys. There are a lot of different brands out there
> but this one seemed to be high quality.
>
> I had grand plans to buy computer foot pedals but I began to utilize a
> complex keyboard remapping which has done most of what I've wanted.
>
> There are lots of options!
>
> On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 10:19:39 AM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> Recent pains in my left thumb have gotten me to re-evaluate how I type.
>> My practice is improving. Rest and icing are also helping. The following
>> cause me pain:
>>
>> 1. Holding down the alt or ctrl key with left thumb.  I have often done
>> this when my right hand is hitting arrow keys.
>>
>> 2. Hitting *both* ctrl *and *C/V/X (cut/copy/paste) keys with left hand.
>> This is an ancient habit, hard to break. The *thumb* hits ctrl key, bent
>> under. This is a recipe for disaster.
>>
>> Imo, one must *never* hit a modifier key and a plain key with the same
>> hand. Hitting the alt & control keys simultaneously is ok, as long as the
>> thumb hits neither key. In fact, I prefer never to use either thumb on a
>> modifier key.
>>
>> There is now enough discomfort that the old habits are becoming obvious.
>> Rather than trying to "break" the old habits, which is likely impossible,
>> the plan is to form *new* habits:
>>
>> 1. *Stop*. Become fully aware of the pain.
>> 2. *Notice*. Evaluate what caused the pain.
>> 3. *Retrain*. Do the action several times the correct way, perhaps
>> experimenting with new finger combinations.
>>
>> Another part of the strategy is to avoid substituting the mouse for
>> keystrokes.  If anything, over-using the mouse is even more dangerous than
>> bad keyboard practice.
>>
>> I tend to fall into bad keyboard and mouse habits when impatient.  The
>> recent pains are a gift, in some sense, urging me to relax, slow down, and
>> do the right things.
>>
>> Edward
>>
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Re: Code Academy: real Leo programmers use git

[Ville M. Vainio]

Note that github provides a direct way tn edit files on the website.

E.g. go to
https://github.com/leo-editor/snippets/blob/master/examples/rst-tutorial/myDocument.html.txt

and click the pen icon.

This also works for people without commit rights; you can edit a file and
create a pull request without ever installing git :).

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:10 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Git *users* can create gists, like https://gist.github.com/tbnorth/6165576
>
> But https://github.com/leo-editor is a GitHub organization, not user, so
> it doesn't have gists, instead I made a separate repo. all members of
> leo-editor can push to: https://github.com/leo-editor/snippets
> I'd vote for that.  There's more junk, um, I mean invaluable and
> educational examples :-),  laying around at the top level than there should
> be, but as long it doesn't get worse and people (myself included) remember
> to put things in subfolders going forward, I think it will be ok.
>
> Does that seem like a workable option to you?  If it needed to look
> prettier, we could use github pages to make an index or something.
>
> BTW, anyone know how to stop google-groups hiding my email address (
> terry_n_br...@yahoo.com)? I can't find the setting.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> --
> *From:* Largo84 
> *To:* leo-editor 
> *Sent:* Friday, January 29, 2016 1:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Code Academy: real Leo programmers use git
>
> This is all great stuff. Yes, been using Git for a while now to stay
> current on the code base. I've often wondered if there's also an easier way
> to share code snippets and scripts. There's Leo wiki
>  that would be ideal for that, but it
> hasn't been edited in over 4 years. Is that something that can be revived?
>
> Rob...
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 11:37:59 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> If you are going to do interesting work on Leo and its plugins, you should
> be using Leo’s latest sources 
> from GitHub  using git
> . Once git is installed, getting the latest version
> of Leo is easy:
>
> git clone https://github.com/leo-editor/ leo-editor.git
> 
>
> Once you have done that, you can get the latest sources with:
>
> git pull
>
> Git is great in tracking history and reverting unwanted changes. And it
> has many other benefits.
>
> I've been wondering when to say this, but recent developments have forced
> my hand.  Today, as the result of our Code Academy discussion, I have added
> the p.u property and a keyword arg to c.editCommands. deleteNodeIcons.  If
> you don't use git you will quickly get out of the loop.
>
> Although git is unique behind the scenes, using git is very similar to
> using bzr or hg or any other SCCS.  To change Leo, you add files, you
> commit files, and you push files.  That's about it.
>
> I'll be happy to answer any git-related questions here.  Again, I
> *strongly* encourage all would-be Leo programmers to use Leo's git repo.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: My last lecture. Part 1: Why Leo is noteworthy

[Ville M. Vainio]

On single-letter names: .h and .b are "archetypal" properties of a
position. Think i,j and k in for-loops. There are only a couple of
properties like that. Longer names, while helping in the first few minutes
of investigating the API, would soon become tedious "nagging".

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Marcel Franke <
kugelfischtemp...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
> Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> Leo's API consists primarily of *generators*, such as c.all_positions(),
 p.self_and_subtree(), etc. and *properties*, such as p.b, p.h, p.gnx
 and p.v.u.

>>>
>>> One thing I always wondered about...is there a reason why Leos API is so
>>> unpythonic?
>>>
>>
>> ​How are they unpythonic?​
>>
>> ​How would you improve, say:
>>
>> for p in c.all_positions():
>> print(p.h)
>>
>
>
>
> for position in commander.find(all=True):
>
> print(position.headline)
>
>
> or
>
>
> for position in commander.walk('/**'):
>
> print(position.headline)
>
>
> or
>
>
> print('\n'.join(node for node in document.walk()))
>
> #Ok, kidding ;)
>
>
> Well, going for that simple example:
>
>
> Single-letter-names for objects and attributes is very bad style.
>
>
> Then there is the design-flaw to use a new method for every single
> edge-case of a general functionality,
>
> instead of using arguments and not poisoning the namespace.
>
>
> The position-object for example. has at least 12(!) methods for the simple
> task of walking
>
> the tree, not even including the methods from the commander-object
>
> Thats 11 more then neccessary, and 10 more then comfort demand.
>
>
> And then there are the broken generators like all_positions which always
> return the same object
>
> and just changes it's internal state.
>
> Personally I must say it's a pain to work with Leo's API, because there is
> many unpredictable behaviour,
> it's unneccessary time-consuming to find something and it's not as
> powerful as it could be.
> For me it's even even faster to use my own more pythonic API which only
> wraps some methods,
> then to always dig through that mountain.
>
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Re: ENB: Looking for my next big project

[Ville M. Vainio]

You may want to read up on Hindley-Milner type infererence. Here seems to
be a Python implementation:

http://smallshire.org.uk/sufficientlysmall/2010/04/11/a-hindley-milner-type-inference-implementation-in-python/

Apparently MyPy has type inference as well.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> This is an Engineering Notebook post.  Feel free to ignore.
>
> TL;DR: I'm looking for a problem that a) seems impossible and b) hasn't
> been significantly studied.  The problem I am thinking of involves
> gathering data in new ways to help devs understand programs (their own or
> other people's).
>
> = Introduction and motivation
>
> The original title of this post was going to be, "how to we know when
> something is impossible?"
>
> History is full of examples of seemingly impossible inventions.  In Leo's
> history, @clean is the best example.  For many years I had thought about
> the problem of doing without sentinels, and each time I looked at the
> problem I saw that sentinels were essential.  I finally saw that Leo can
> get the sentinels *from the outline itself*, thereby bypassing sentinels
> in external files.
>
> So proofs that something is impossible must be approached with skepticism.
>
> Contrary to popular opinion, however, it *is* sometimes possible to prove
> that something is impossible.  For example, Galois paved the way for the
> proof that for every *n* > 4, there exist polynomials of degree *n* which
> are not solvable by radicals
> .
> The immediate result is that some geometric constructions are impossible
> with just compass and straight edge.
>
> Let's turn to workarounds to practical impossibilities.  The traveling
> salesman problem
>  is known to
> be NP-hard, so there is good reason to suppose that no general, efficient,
> *perfect* solution will ever be found.  Indeed, given the actual answer
> to a particular NP-hard problem, it is often *still* NP-hard to verify
> that the answer correct!
>
> But consider this quote from the wikipedia page:
>
> "Even though the [traveling salesman] problem is computationally
> difficult, a large number of heuristics and exact methods are known, so
> that some instances with tens of thousands of cities can be solved
> completely and even problems with millions of cities can be approximated
> within a small fraction of 1%".
>
> So in engineering and mathematics there is a gray area surrounding the
> notion of impossibility.  Yes, something may be impossible, strictly
> speaking, but often that impossibility doesn't matter.
>
> = Translating Python to C: an impossible solved problem
>
> I am convinced that this problem, like the traveling salesman problem, is
> impossible *in some sense*.  Indeed, naive approaches to turning Python
> into C are almost certainly misguided foolishness.  Among the many gotchas
> that naive approaches fail to appreciate are the subtle semantic difference
> between Python objects and libraries and the (supposedly) corresponding C
> objects and libraries.  So a naive Python-to-C translator just isn't likely
> to happen.
>
> But just as with the traveling salesman problem, excellent workarounds are
> available now, and these workarounds are only going to get better.  cython
> allows construction of C extensions for Python using
> Python 3.x syntax.  The overview page
>  discusses the
> details.  Most importantly, from my point of view, optional type
> annotations can make cython programs almost arbitrarily efficient. I expect
> that good work is coming regarding type inference in Python.
>
> In short, converting Python code to C is *already* solved for many
> practical cases, and advances in type inference for Python will only
> improve matters.
>
> A Leo script that could contribute a bit to this general problem.  This
> script would convert naming conventions to type annotations.  I think this
> could be useful in a number of ways.  But this is a smallish project, no
> more than a week or so, I would guess.
>
> = A big, unsolved, unnoticed problem
>
> Over the last few years I have tried in vain to understand how various
> type-checking/inference algorithms have worked.  In particular, pylint and
> rope do excellent (if limited) type inference.  But even though I have
> studied the code as imported in Leo, have have not been able really to
> grasp what is going on. Neither pylint nor rope document the theory of
> operation. It seems that I need better tools to understand the code.
>
> Naturally, the tools would have to be tailored to each individual app.
> Understanding complex code is never going to be routine.
>
> So that's it.  Imo, all juicy projects must come from a real, urgently
> felt, need.  Understanding Python programs is a real need.  I'm not sure
> how urgent it 

Re: Increasing the "instant appeal" of Leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

Sublime doesn't support manual "completion" here - it just shows a
screenful of possible completions automatically on every keystroke, like
here:

http://www.sublimetext.com/screenshots/alpha_goto_anything2_large.png



On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:15 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
> john lunzer  wrote:
>
> > > 4. see if we could replace minibuffer with ctrl+shift+p like thing
> > > from sublime/atom/vscode. Much more "impressive" and modern.
> >
> > To terry, this is how sublime works. I agree that the pop-up style is
> > more "modern" but to a greater point, the minibuffer 99% of the time
> > is just taking up screen real estate and not doing anything. There is
> > not a lot of reason to have it there on the screen unless somebody
> > wants it there on the screen
>
> So the easy way is just to style the parent widget hidden when it
> doesn't have focus... but then it would bump the layout whenever it was
> un-hidden.  Might be worth testing that, I'd like that approach if it
> wasn't too disruptive.  If it is too disruptive, then pop-up would make
> sense, just have to make sure you get all the special Leo-ness in the
> editing of the line (completion etc.).
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Increasing the "instant appeal" of Leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

There is another thread on focusing on marketing instead of feature
development. I agree on this (esp. for features like vim-bindings, which
would likely be misplacement of limited development time, as vim users will
always be using vim and the result would be bad anyway).

There are some ideas to increase "instant appeal", which plays directly to
marketing (first step is to get people try leo, the second step is to make
them spend more than 15 minutes in it).

1. Make a dark theme the default, and ensure it looks good on Windows, OSX
and Linux. Make font sizes etc like those in atom, sublime text, Visual
Studio Code and Firefox Developer edition (just examples to reflect what I
consider "modern" look and feel).

Screenshots:

http://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/atom-editor-windows.jpg

http://www.johnpapa.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/vsc.png

http://www.cmstricks.com/assets/images/tutorials/soho-part1/template-tutorial%20(20).jpg

(we could even adjust tab look and feel to match this look!)

2. .ini or .json based configuration (instead of .leo format), again like
in Sublime Text or VSCode. Current system requires too much Leo buy-in
already

3. See if we could make tabs for node editors (richt click on node -> open
as tab). This is in line with how people use e.g. browsers these days. Like
"stickynote" but for tabs, that is

4. see if we could replace minibuffer with ctrl+shift+p like thing from
sublime/atom/vscode. Much more "impressive" and modern.

5. likewise, ctrl+p for "quick finding" nodes based on fuzzy matching on
headlines (like subliwe fuzzy matches file names on ctrl+p)

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Re: 3 important projects at once

[Ville M. Vainio]

As far as static typing for python goes, mypy seems to be the GvR-endorsed
solution these days: http://mypy-lang.org/




On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> I am now working on three projects simultaneously: Leo 5.1 (@clean), Leo
> as an external diff, and a web-based Leo viewer.
>
> @clean is the most important.  It promises a large increase in the number
> of people that use Leo. That will increase the usefulness of having a
> web-based viewer for Leo.  @clean also promises to make Leo a real choice
> for developers. That will make Leo as an external diff program more
> valuable.
>
> Edward
>
> P.S.  I have also started on a fourth project, a re-imagining of the
> static type checking project.  I think of it as a static *design* checker.
> The present plan is to replace almost all type inference with something
> simpler. This must take a back seat now to the other projects, but I'll be
> working on the project from time to time.
>
> EKR
>
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Re: Problems using IPython code. Less problems using IPython ideas

[Ville M. Vainio]

Hey, I saw that! ;-).

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 8:07 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 08:58:49 -0800 (PST)
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > **Important**:  Leo does *exactly* the same thing, but only for
> > certain known values, like c and g, and for certain "standard"
> > conventional names, such as s, s1 and s2 standing for strings, etc.
>
> Leo autocompletion also works with the vs-eval command.
>
> I have vs-eval bound to Alt-A, so I type
>
> import pipes
> pipes.
>
> and the Log says "No completions"
>
> but if I select the import line and hit Alt-A, or just put the cursor
> at the start of the line and hit Alt-A twice, then
> pipes. gives me completion for that module.
>
> vs-last and vs-last-pretty will put the output of the last vs-eval into
> the body.
>
> vs-eval, vs-last and vs-last-pretty are in the valuespace
> plugin, but not related to the mind bending complexity (just kidding,
> Ville ;-) of the rest of that module, rather they're there because it
> made sense to do their evaluations in the same namespace that
> valuespace uses.  And it saved making another plugin for some fairly
> simple commands, although I thing vs-eval has a bunch of heuristics to
> work out what vs-last-* should show for multi-line code.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Leo *for* web apps vs. Leo *as* a web app

[Ville M. Vainio]

Leo already works with ipython, but I'm aware we are talking about ipython
notebook here ;).

I think I did an experiment on this back in the day - it would involve
launching "ipython kernel" (that hosts all the data, and that is used as a
backend for the web frontend) in the Leo process. This would give ipython
notebook access to Leo's dom, and Leo could access the cells in ipython
notebook.


On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:45 PM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

> ​​
> ​On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Brad  wrote:
>
>> I understand. My thinking was that if you decide to move ahead, the
>> IPython (and more generally Jupyter) developers have gone through the
>> careful process (and pain) of designing an integrated, extensible system
>> (tornado, zmq, json, javascript) that may be of use in a more general
>> context. This might give the project a head start instead of having to
>> discover a workable system based on lower-level components.
>>
>
> ​The biggest win-win that I can see would be to "insinuate" Leo somehow
> into IPython.  Let's call this project **ipLeo**: Leo in the IPython world.
>
> It would be a win for IPython because it could give IPython Leo's DOM,
> scripting, outlines and clones.
>
> It would be a win for Leo because IPython is really big: it continues to
> get favorable mention in places like Nature and Science.  And IPython is
> attracting big bucks for development.  It's a popular, powerful and
> expanding platform.
>
> ipLeo may be feasible, especially with the jupyter architecture.  The
> fundamental rule, from my point of view, is **no fork of IPython**.  We can
> change IPython during prototyping and development of ipLeo, but eventually
> we will want to be able to offer some kind of IPython plugin that does
> ipLeo.
>
> This may be the new direction we have been looking for.  I see neither a
> need to contact the IPython team nor to ask their permission for us to
> start investigating the possibilities.
>
> Your comments please, Amigos.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

...and, should you choose to explore this path, I would be willing to set
up the development environment obviously :)

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Ville M. Vainio  wrote:

> Forgot link, I meant this:
>
> https://github.com/lukehoban/es6features
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Ville M. Vainio 
> wrote:
>
>> We are using Traceur and Browserify (through es6ify)
>> https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify
>>
>> This combo brings lots of sanity like "import" to JS development.
>>
>> Pretty much everything we want to use is available in Traceur. The
>> missing stuff is something we can live well without (like proxies).
>>
>> This is a good overview on what you get (most important ones are modules,
>> fat arrow, destructuring, spreads, classes)
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Edward K. Ream 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous
>>>> functions. It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anonymous functions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ​Thanks for this.  One less urgent project ;-)​
>>>
>>>
>>> We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
>>>> pretty horrible if you are used to Python),
>>>>
>>>
>>> ​I haven't been paying attention to es6 until now.  This compatibility
>>> diagram comes up first when googling es6:
>>> http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/
>>>
>>> From the diagram it appears that only compilers such as traceur support
>>> classes.  What tools do you use?  What assumptions do you make about
>>> availability of features?
>>>
>>> Edward
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

Forgot link, I meant this:

https://github.com/lukehoban/es6features

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Ville M. Vainio  wrote:

> We are using Traceur and Browserify (through es6ify)
> https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify
>
> This combo brings lots of sanity like "import" to JS development.
>
> Pretty much everything we want to use is available in Traceur. The missing
> stuff is something we can live well without (like proxies).
>
> This is a good overview on what you get (most important ones are modules,
> fat arrow, destructuring, spreads, classes)
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous functions.
>>> It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anonymous functions.
>>>
>>
>> ​Thanks for this.  One less urgent project ;-)​
>>
>>
>> We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
>>> pretty horrible if you are used to Python),
>>>
>>
>> ​I haven't been paying attention to es6 until now.  This compatibility
>> diagram comes up first when googling es6:
>> http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/
>>
>> From the diagram it appears that only compilers such as traceur support
>> classes.  What tools do you use?  What assumptions do you make about
>> availability of features?
>>
>> Edward
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>

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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

We are using Traceur and Browserify (through es6ify)
https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify

This combo brings lots of sanity like "import" to JS development.

Pretty much everything we want to use is available in Traceur. The missing
stuff is something we can live well without (like proxies).

This is a good overview on what you get (most important ones are modules,
fat arrow, destructuring, spreads, classes)

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous functions.
>> It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anonymous functions.
>>
>
> ​Thanks for this.  One less urgent project ;-)​
>
>
> We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
>> pretty horrible if you are used to Python),
>>
>
> ​I haven't been paying attention to es6 until now.  This compatibility
> diagram comes up first when googling es6:
> http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/
>
> From the diagram it appears that only compilers such as traceur support
> classes.  What tools do you use?  What assumptions do you make about
> availability of features?
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

Disclosure: I'm mostly a javascript developer these days :).

You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous functions.
It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anymous functions.

We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
pretty horrible if you are used to Python), and we do for-loops like this:

_.each(mylist, (el) => {
  console.log(el)
})

Here, you would want everything in single node.

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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

We'll see if/when that starts happening. If Python 2 is what companies use
in production, their developers will build also new packages to prioritize
python 2.

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Kent Tenney  wrote:

> > Anyway inevitably there will be packages not available for python3,
> (legacy)
>
> and newer packages will not be available for python2
> (because they leverage py3 features)
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:28 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor
>  wrote:
> > This thread has inspired me to get things working in Python3, i.e. Leo
> > plus all the plugins I use.
> >
> > I have PyQt5 installed in Python3, so this includes fixing Qt4/5 stuff.
> >
> > Notes so far:
> >
> > paramiko is a package for Ubuntu 14.04 for 2.7 but not 3, no big deal,
> > pip3 can install it.
> >
> > I've been loading the deceased plugin 'qtframecommands' from the .pyc
> > file for who knows how long.  :-)
> >
> > The livecode plugin uses https://pypi.python.org/pypi/meta, but this
> > happens
> >
> >   leo-editor:0> sudo pip3 install meta
> >   Downloading/unpacking meta
> > Downloading meta-0.4.1.tar.gz (45kB): 45kB downloaded
> > Running setup.py (path:/tmp/pip_build_root/meta/setup.py) egg_info
> >   for package meta
> >   Installing collected packages: meta
> > Running setup.py install for meta
> >
> >   Installing depyc script to /usr/local/bin
> > File
> >
>  "/usr/local/lib/python3.4/dist-packages/meta/bytecodetools/print_code.py",
> >   line 12 print instr ^
> >   SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >
> > odd that pip thinks it's available for py3.
> >
> > I think Leo's livecode plugin would be much better without the meta
> > dependency, it's being used for ast object to source code conversion,
> > maybe livecode could adequately guess at the code from the input code.
> > I.e. given input of "d[2][3:7] = 6*7" meta handles the recreation of
> > the d[2][3:7] part on the output side, I think.
> >
> > Anyway inevitably there will be packages not available for python3,
> > not a surprise.
> >
> > Cheers -Terry
> >
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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Further thought - it's still unclear which one is the dead end, python 2 or
python 3.

There is very little motivation still to prioritize python 3 when python 2
has all the users and developers - everyone ensures their stuff works on
python 2, and python 3 is "voluntary extra".

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Ville M. Vainio 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, I'm pretty pessimistic about Python 3 at this point. Python 2
>>> seems to be "good enough" for most people.
>>>
>>
>> ​I am not real optimistic about Python 3 myself.  ​
>>
>> ​As Kent says, more and more packages are being ported.  But Guido has
>> recently promised to support Python 2K until at least 2020 (a change from
>> 2015).  This indicates that all is not going well.
>>
>> My guess is that there are some big Python 2K shops that still have no
>> real notion about how they are going to transition to 3K.  It doesn't
>> matter how many people *have* made the transition as long as there are
>> important players who haven't or can't.
>>
>
> This is a complex topic.  Here are some further thoughts:
>
> Guido himself clearly believed (and probably still believes) that Python 2
> is *not* good enough.
>
> Otoh, Guido's remarks in recent PyCon keynote speeches indicate that he
> will never again attempt such a radical break with existing code.  He seems
> somewhat unhappy with the transition to Python 3.  That may be an
> understatement. Or not.  He has reasons to put a brave face on things.
>
> Kent's remark that more and more packages are being ported to Python 3 is
> more important than I originally acknowledged.  The available packages, not
> the problems of big shops, are what most people care about, or should care
> about.
>
> In some ways, the big shops don't matter all that much.  They can "take
> care of themselves" and they can always stick with Python 2.7.  When (not
> if) Python 2.7 is no longer supported, big shops can start paying the price
> that the core Python developers are now paying in supporting the Python 2
> code base.
>
> Finally, there are a growing list of reasons why Python 3 is simply better
> than Python 2.  I actually would *not* say that Python 3's support for
> unicode is one of those reasons, but that's debatable.  What is not
> debatable is that Python 3 has cool new features and modules that Python
> 2.8 will *never* have:
>
> - My favorite is pip install, the killer feature of Python 3.4.
>
> Yesterday I did "pip install ipython[all]" and everything Just
> Worked(tm).  This is the first time I have *ever* managed to install
> tornado on Windows, and thus the first time that "ipython notebook" has
> ever worked on windows.
>
> - The important asyncio module
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio.html is Python 3 only.
>
> Yes, there is a backport to Python 2:
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/trollius
>
> - Function annotations, https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/, will
> never be part of Python 2 unless they are supported in Python 2.8.
>
> - Similarly, the "yield from" syntax, pep 380,
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/, will never be part of Python 2.
>
> You can quibble about how important these features are (except, pip :-),
> but there is no doubt that Python 2 is a dead end.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

PIP is routinely used with python 2 - in fact a lot of modules in PyPI is
Python 2 only.

You can get it here: https://pip.pypa.io/en/latest/installing.html

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Ville M. Vainio 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, I'm pretty pessimistic about Python 3 at this point. Python 2
>>> seems to be "good enough" for most people.
>>>
>>
>> ​I am not real optimistic about Python 3 myself.  ​
>>
>> ​As Kent says, more and more packages are being ported.  But Guido has
>> recently promised to support Python 2K until at least 2020 (a change from
>> 2015).  This indicates that all is not going well.
>>
>> My guess is that there are some big Python 2K shops that still have no
>> real notion about how they are going to transition to 3K.  It doesn't
>> matter how many people *have* made the transition as long as there are
>> important players who haven't or can't.
>>
>
> This is a complex topic.  Here are some further thoughts:
>
> Guido himself clearly believed (and probably still believes) that Python 2
> is *not* good enough.
>
> Otoh, Guido's remarks in recent PyCon keynote speeches indicate that he
> will never again attempt such a radical break with existing code.  He seems
> somewhat unhappy with the transition to Python 3.  That may be an
> understatement. Or not.  He has reasons to put a brave face on things.
>
> Kent's remark that more and more packages are being ported to Python 3 is
> more important than I originally acknowledged.  The available packages, not
> the problems of big shops, are what most people care about, or should care
> about.
>
> In some ways, the big shops don't matter all that much.  They can "take
> care of themselves" and they can always stick with Python 2.7.  When (not
> if) Python 2.7 is no longer supported, big shops can start paying the price
> that the core Python developers are now paying in supporting the Python 2
> code base.
>
> Finally, there are a growing list of reasons why Python 3 is simply better
> than Python 2.  I actually would *not* say that Python 3's support for
> unicode is one of those reasons, but that's debatable.  What is not
> debatable is that Python 3 has cool new features and modules that Python
> 2.8 will *never* have:
>
> - My favorite is pip install, the killer feature of Python 3.4.
>
> Yesterday I did "pip install ipython[all]" and everything Just
> Worked(tm).  This is the first time I have *ever* managed to install
> tornado on Windows, and thus the first time that "ipython notebook" has
> ever worked on windows.
>
> - The important asyncio module
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio.html is Python 3 only.
>
> Yes, there is a backport to Python 2:
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/trollius
>
> - Function annotations, https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/, will
> never be part of Python 2 unless they are supported in Python 2.8.
>
> - Similarly, the "yield from" syntax, pep 380,
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/, will never be part of Python 2.
>
> You can quibble about how important these features are (except, pip :-),
> but there is no doubt that Python 2 is a dead end.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

FWIW, I'm pretty pessimistic about Python 3 at this point. Python 2 seems
to be "good enough" for most people.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Kent Tenney  wrote:

> I recently tried to switch to v3, as I remember, I was thwarted
> by problems having to do with PyQT in a virtualenv.
>
> I currently run Leo in a virtualenv, I think I linked to system
> files to make PyQT work, but I don't remember how I did it.
>
> So, I'd like a virtualenv with 3.x Python to run Leo from, but
> since 'pip install PyQT' doesn't work, I gave up.
>
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
> > I would like to have most (all?) Leo developers develop and test using
> 3.x.
> > Would that be a problem for anyone?
> >
> > Guido has stated that there will be no version 2.8 of Python:
> > http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0404/ (Hahaha: Pep 404)
> > although some disagree:
> > http://blog.startifact.com/posts/the-call-of-python-28.html
> > Considering that Guido is the BDFL, I rate the odds of Python 2.8 at less
> > that 1%.
> >
> > I expect to see people using Python 2.x for a long time, but Python 3.x
> > should be available for anyone who wants it, and not just on
> PythonAnywhere.
> >
> > Afaik, it is now possible to develop Leo using Python 3K exclusively.  In
> > particular, Python 3.4 supports pip, a big step forward.  For example,
> the
> > following work::
> >
> > pip install docutils
> > pip install pylint
> > pip install sphinx
> >
> > But pip does not appear able to install pyqt (I may be mistaken).
> >
> > Anyway, docutils, pylint and sphinx work fine (on Windows) with Python
> 3K.
> >
> > Your comments, please.
> >
> > Edward
> >
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Weird: Ctrl-Shift-x does not work w/ caps lock as additional control

[Ville M. Vainio]

I have followed roughly these instructions to make caps lock an additional
control:

http://www.kodiva.com/post/swapping-caps-lock-and-control-keys

Interesting side effect is that capslock + shift + x does not work!
Ctrl-shift-x works normally.

No particular action needed on this as it's a pretty rare setup, but just
posting it here for future reference.

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Re: How did I get dark theme again?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks. this works. leo-dark-0 seems to be working at least - the others I
tried need to be updated to new theme system, so  I guess it's time to roll
up my sleeves... (I want leo-dark-1).

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Davy Cottet  wrote:
>
> - To get the leo-dark-0, which is more a solarized dark theme, just copy
> the node "leo_dark theme 0" from file leo/config/themes.leo to your
> @settings.
>
> Be sure that you have no other @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet node in
> @settings.
>
> To get a darker theme see here :
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/leo-editor/j9oibfegjE8/Xaxt8pz89MUJ
>
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How did I get dark theme again?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I am finally getting around to trying to get leo looking "right" on my new
computer, but can't find the old way to configure the dark theme
(leo-dark-0). What do I need to do to get it? It's not in settings.leo
anymore.

On related note, on Windows the font is way too large compared to other
apps, so it may be good idea to adjust the default configuration a bit - in
the spirit of "first impressions matter", and configuration being hard.

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Re: Ville: ok to put setup.py in leo/dist folder?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Commented on github

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> Can you live with setup.py somewhere other than the top-level folder?
>
> Hiding setup.py seems like the only way to resolve git bug #81
> https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/81
>
> Various forms of this issue have been around for years.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Some smallish cleanups: one level of indirection is enough!

[Ville M. Vainio]

Great to see where this is going :). Should help make the code approachable
by other people as well.

As they say, great design is more about removing things than adding more
things.

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> I've just pushed a cleanup of Leo's qt tree code in qt_tree.py.  The new
> code eliminates the the BaseNativeTreeWidget class and moves all the
> functional code from the BaseNativeTreeWidget class to the LeoQtTree class,
> eliminating code that existed only to be over-ridden.  Sheesh.
>
> LeoQtTree is now a subclass of the LeoTree class (defined in leoFrame.py)
> as it should be.
>
> This continues the drive to eliminate unnecessary levels of redirection in
> the code.  I used to quote this saying, "there is no problem in computer
> science that can't be cured by one more level of indirection."  The snappy
> rejoinder was, "except for too many levels of indirection!" Indeed, I would
> modify the saying as follows: "Any more than one level of indirection is
> too many."  This might go too far in the other direction, but I think it is
> a better guide :-)
>
> I don't expect any problems with the new code because it consisted mostly
> of moving nodes around! The only tricky part was merging the ctors...
>
> All seems well, but please report any problems immediately.
>
> Edward
>
> P.S.  I plan no more reorgs of the code, but I was saying that a few days
> ago :-)  Otoh, everything seems about as simple as it could possibly be
> made, so there is hope that this really is the last munge...
>
> EKR
>
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Re: Wanted: w.getTextLength and p/v.get_b_length

[Ville M. Vainio]

Maybe QTextCursor could help

http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qtextcursor.html


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

> A head-slapping moment: the so-called high-level interfaced throughout
> Leo's core to interact with Leo's text panes lacks a way of getting the
> length of text *without* making a copy of the text.
>
> This is more than a slight oversight: I imagine there are several place
> were the code does s = w.getAllText() merely so it can use len(s)! This is
> a huge strain on the GC for large p.b.
>
> Worse, the absence of w.getTextLength() has lead to the most unfortunate
> LeoQTextEditWidget.lengthHelper, which calculated the length of the text
> using QTextCursor methods!  This is catastrophically slow for large text.
> This method was doubling node load times for large nodes.
>
> In other words, w.getTextLength() is an essential part of fixing git bug
> 28:
> https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/28
>
> But nooo... w.getTextLength() is far from easy to do.  There is no
> QTextEdit or QTextDocument method that delivers the length of the text!
> This is a *huge* hole in the QTextEdit and QTextDocument api's, but there
> is nothing we can do about that.
>
> The simplest thing that could possibly work would be::
>
> def getTextLength(self):
> w = self.widget
> return len(w.getAllText())
>
> But this would be a step backwards because it hides the fact that it is
> expensive.
>
> It might be possible to cache the value of w.getAllText in an "text
> changed" event handler in LeoQTextBrowser:(QTextBrowser).  But I would like
> to avoid this approach--any bug would lead to data loss or corruption. I
> may play around with this, but for now it's not likely to happen.  See
> below for a workaround.
>
> By analogy with w.getTextLength(), we can imagine a p.b_length method that
> would simply return len(p.v._bodyString).  This, at least, is worth doing.
>
> = Summary
>
> w.getTextLength() isn't trivial.  (Sounds of gnashing teeth.)
>
> Caching the value returned by w.getAllText() seems too dangerous.
>
> As a work-around, the crucial node-selection logic will attempt to
> minimize calls to w.getAllText.  There, and *only* there, it should be
> possible to create a *single* copy of the text and pass that copy around to
> all code that needs it.  It would be a complication, but a completely safe
> one.
>
> Otoh, p/v.b_length are trivial and useful.  They will be added asap.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Defining commands: @g.command is not always best

[Ville M. Vainio]

Note that g.command does not need to be at top level. You can define
functions using it in a function or method, capturing c, self or whatever
from enclosing scope.
 On Aug 15, 2014 2:37 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> This post discusses discusses problems with the @g.command decorator.
> Later sections discuss solutions. These later sections are ENB (Engineering
> Note Book) discussions, which can safely be ignored by all except the usual
> suspects...
>
> Promises to do something "today" don't always get kept because a seemingly
> simple task like adding an insert-file-name command becomes unbearable.
> Creating a better way to define commands has become urgent.
>
> = Background
>
> @g.command has its uses, especially in plugins.  It allows any code to
> define a new Leo command without having any access to Leo's core code.  For
> this reason alone, the @g.command decorator is here to stay.
>
> However, using @g.command to add Leo commands is often *way* too clumsy.
> There are several problems using @g.command.  To see these problems
> clearly, let's look at a typical example, from leoVim.py::
>
> @g.command(':gt')
> def vim_gt(event):
> '''cycle-focus'''
> c = event.get('c')
> if c and c.vimCommands:
> c.vimCommands.cycle_focus()
>
> This code sucks, for at least the following reasons:
>
> 1. It requires an outer-level function-name (vim_gt) that has no value
> except to the @g.command decorator itself.  This is useless verbiage and
> just clutters the namespace.  Worse, although the decorator doesn't require
> distinct names, disabling a pylint check for duplicate names would be way
> too dangerous.
>
> 2. It repeats the template code for each different command.  This is pure
> cruft. Worse, the tests for c and c.vimCommands would not be necessary in a
> subcommander.
>
> 3. It is usually bad design to define the command at the top level.
> Commands should be defined in the classes that contain their code!
>
> For all these reasons, vim-mode commands clearly should *not* be defined
> using the @g.command decorator.  The question is, how to define them
> cleanly?
>
> Everything from here on is an ENB entry.  Feel free to ignore, unless you
> are Terry ;-)
>
> = Motivation
>
> It would be possible to define vc commands in vc.finishCreate as is done
> by sub-commanders in leoEditCommands.py, but as I was thinking about this
> problem I discovered how to simplify the definition of almost *all* of
> Leo's commands.  This is too good to ignore, for the following reasons:
>
> 1. The simplifications to be described reduce order constraints during
> startup.  Any such reduction is, all by itself, extremely valuable, because
> such order constraints are the main complicating factor in the startup code.
>
> 2. As always, simplifications to complex code (and Leo's startup code is
> complex in hard-to-see ways) promise further simplifications.  No further
> simplifications are apparent *now*, but it would be bad practice not to
> simplify the code when I can.
>
> = Details
>
> At present, there are several ways (not sure how to count them ;-) to
> define large numbers of commands.  By defining a command I mean associating
> a string (the command's name) with a method of some class.
>
> Although details vary, the basic idea in each case is to define a
> **commands dict**, a Python dict whose keys are command names (Python
> strings) and whose values are methods.
>
> In particular, each subcommander in leoEditCommands.py defines a
> getPublicCommands method that returns a commands dict.
>
> ECM.finishCreateEditCommanders then merges all the commands dicts, like
> this::
>
> def finishCreateEditCommanders (self):
> '''Finish creating edit classes in the commander.
> Return the commands dictionary for all the classes.'''
> c,d = self.c,{}
> for name, theClass in self.classesList:
> theInstance = getattr(c,name)
> theInstance.finishCreate()
> theInstance.init()
> d2 = theInstance.getPublicCommands()
> if d2:
> d.update(d2)
> return d
>
> But none of this should be necessary.  Or rather, it should happen in a
> different place, and at no *particular* time.
>
> = A much better way to define commands.
>
> The basic problem with the code above is that it must happen at the exact
> instant that various finishCreate methods get called.  Yes, the present
> code works, but it depends *far* too much on code order during startup.
>
> We can remove *all* these unnecessary ordering constraints as follows:
>
> 1.  Define init phase 0: create ivars.
>
> This phase is trivial, for our present purposes.  Commands.__init__ will
> just define c.commandsDict and its inverse, as *empty* Python dictionaries.
>
> At present, the inverse of c.commandsDict is c.k.inverseCommandsDict.  How
> stupid is that?  It must be a c (Commands) ivar, not a c.k
> (KeyHandlerCla

[Python-ideas] Proposal: Use mypy syntax for function annotations

[Ville M. Vainio]

This is of interest reg. some recent discussions around the topic

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2014-August/028618.html

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Re: Tipp: Avoid conflicts when leo file is in source control

[Ville M. Vainio]

I think there is also a setting to NOT store expanded state in .leo files.
 On Aug 6, 2014 8:56 PM, "Zoltan Benedek"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't know whether is documented or not this idea, but I wanted to be
> sure, that is not lost.
>
> If your leo file is in source control management system (like git,
> mercurial, ...), you can face some useless conflicts/commit changes of the
> leo file.
>
> When some outline nodes are contracted/expanded the leo file changes,
> whether or not the outline structure has changed.
>
> In order to avoid useless changes of the leo file in SCMS you can run the
> 'contract-all' command before every commit.
>
> Best regards
>
>
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Re: Leo on Mac

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yes, I'm using Leo on Mac and works fine. Not hard to install either.


On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Zoltan Benedek  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm not a Mac user but have a lot of colleague's using Mac. I've read in
> the documentation that Leo is not recommended for Mac, because it's
> difficult to install.
>
> Now I see that is easier to install by HomeBrew.
>
> How stable is Leo on Mac?
>
> Can I recommend Leo for Mac users?
>
> Thanks
>
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Jedi autocompletion library for python

[Ville M. Vainio]

Something to evaluate:

https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi

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Re: Representing Leo outlines in git

[Ville M. Vainio]

I'm always here (reading), just not mustering enough time and energy to
write or contribute usefully :).



On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:46:29 PM UTC-5, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>>
>> Just as a quick stab - I was looking at camlistore through last few days.
>>
>> https://camlistore.org/
>>
>> It may be more natural fit for Leo outline management than git (as it's
>> more about direct content addressable content access than git). I have had
>> sketchy plans of reinventing something like camlistore from scratch, so
>> it's something I will be looking into anyway.
>>
>
> Great to hear from you again, Ville.  We've been missing your wisdom :-)
>
> camlistore looks very interesting, for many reasons.  In Leo's terms,
> distinction between an object and a blob is the distinction between a node
> (with gnx) and the various versions of it that may exist through time.
> I'll be studying camlistore closely.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Representing Leo outlines in git

[Ville M. Vainio]

Just as a quick stab - I was looking at camlistore through last few days.

https://camlistore.org/

It may be more natural fit for Leo outline management than git (as it's
more about direct content addressable content access than git). I have had
sketchy plans of reinventing something like camlistore from scratch, so
it's something I will be looking into anyway.


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> I've been studying the pro git book: http://git-scm.com/book and am now
> closely studying the internals chapter:
> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Internals
>
> Stimulated by Kent's work with db's, the question arises: is it possible
> to represent a Leo outline as a git object?
>
> I believe the answer is yes, and not just in the trivial sense that any
> content is a blob:
>
> - Every node's gnx, headline, body text and uA (and anything else) has a
> unique (sha-1) hash.
> - We could define (git) tree objects that contain the following entries:
> gnx, headline, body text, uA, parents, children.
> - Empty uA's would be represented by the hash for an empty string.
> - Parents and children entries would be other git tree objects.
>
> In this way, we could use git plumbing to build a git tree object
> representing an entire outline, with all the data contained in a .leo file.
>
> In other words, even though git is *content* addressable, the content can
> contain gnx's, so that nodes *identities* are preserved.
>
> Don't know whether any of this will be helpful in the current creative
> ferment, but I thought I would point it out.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: How to Ctrl-C a script started by Ctrl-B?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yeah, just press ctrl-c in the terminal you used to launch Leo
 On Jul 8, 2014 5:21 AM, "'Terry Brown' via leo-editor" <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jul 2014 18:55:11 -0700 (PDT)
> SegundoBob  wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know how to cancel a Leo-Editor script that is started by
> > Ctrl-B?
>
> I'm not sure if it can be done from Leo, I think the Ctrl-B scripts are
> run in the same process as Leo itself.  Would a solution involving
> sending the signal from the unix/linux command line be relevant to
> you?  Although that may kill Leo completely, so I'm not sure it would
> help.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> > I know how to use Ctrl-C to cancel a python script that is run from
> > the command line:
> >
> > import sys
> > import time
> >
> > idx = 0
> > try:
> > while True:
> > print '{0}\r'.format(idx),
> > sys.stdout.flush()
> > idx += 1
> > time.sleep(1)
> > except KeyboardInterrupt:
> > print '\nKeyboardInterrupt'
> > print('Bye')
> >
> >
> > But this does not work for a Leo-Editor script started by Ctrl-B.
> >
> > Since Leo-Editor is a PyQt4 application, I tried some of the
> > solutions suggested here:
> >
> >
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4938723/what-is-the-correct-way-to-make-my-pyqt-application-quit-when-killed-from-the-co
> >
> > But they don't work.
> >
> >
>
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Re: Coming soon: pep 8 (Upper-case) class names

[Ville M. Vainio]

pep8 style would probably be VNode. How about just Node now that we only
have vnodes?
On May 20, 2014 7:45 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> Using pep-8 naming conventions for classes is a simple step that helps
> distinguish types.  In the next few days I'll probably complete the
> transition in Leo's code base. That is, within Leo's core the calls to the
> ctors will now look like, for example::
>
> v = leoNodes.Vnode(...)
> p = Position(...)
>
> Don't panic: the old class names, like vnode and position, will continue
> to be defined (as aliases to the new class names) so all existing code,
> plugins and scripts should work as before.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Why Leo is not yet ready for prime time (for most users)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Git is sometimes used to maintain e.g. design assets and documentation.

I guess non-technical people will learn to use git when it's mandatory part
of their work.


On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 9 May 2014 20:13:17 -0700 (PDT)
> Richard Cranium  wrote:
>
> > Like all the non-technical people that managed to learn git?
>
> I don't quite understand your comment, and I'm considering trying to
> teach non-technical people git, so I'm curious.  Is there a context
> where you see a lot of non-technical people using git?  Via git-hub, or
> some other UI?  Or is it not as hard as it seems if it's explained
> right?
>
> Thanks, Terry
>
> > On Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:15:17 PM UTC-5, duf...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I am a long-time lurker on this newsgroup, and I have noticed that
> > > in the last few months there have been significant improvements to
> > > Leo, in the hopes of making it more accessible to the non-technical
> > > crowd. It was certainly a move in the right direction but, alas, I
> > > think it was not enough. The point of my argument is that Leo is
> > > still too technically-oriented, and this alienates so many
> > > potential users. You just have to read the posts on this newsgroup
> > > (as I have been doing for a long time), to realize that people with
> > > little or no programming experience are bound to find major
> > > difficulties in using Leo, from the very beginning. Just trying to
> > > configure the simplest (UI-related) settings is a major challenge.
> > > This issue was already raised in the past, but is yet to be solved.
> > >
> > > Why can't we (non-technical people) be relieved with having to
> > > tinker with the internal workings of Leo? Come to think of it, the
> > > overwhelming majority of modern programs are totally GUI-based, so
> > > that the settings can be easily changed via menus. Why can't we
> > > have this in Leo too, instead of having to learn technical jargon
> > > and manually modify settings files? I really don't get it.
> > >
> > > Please, consider doing something radical about it (e.g.
> > > refurbishing the default menus with all the main commands and
> > > settings, at least), or realistically Leo might be bound for
> > > extinction.
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > Duf
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Any mac user want an atom.io invire?

[Ville M. Vainio]

One more invitation to go, don't make me ask on Twitter whether anyone
wants it ;-).


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

> I have 3 invites to give. You need a mac to use it.
>
> Priority given for frequent committers, othewise it's first come first
> served :)
>

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Any mac user want an atom.io invire?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I have 3 invites to give. You need a mac to use it.

Priority given for frequent committers, othewise it's first come first
served :)

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Re: Nightly snapshots not up to date?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Are nightly snapshots needed anymore since you can just grab the source
from github?

Select "download zip" from the bottom right edge of

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor

Direct link

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/master.zip



On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Peter Mills wrote:

>
>
> On Sunday, April 6, 2014 8:26:30 AM UTC+10, Peter Mills wrote:
>>
>> Despite the file name of "leo-editor-snapshot-20140405.zip" in the
>> nightly snapshot page, the files therein appear to to be from 2014-02-13.
>>  A fish around in the files shows that viewrendered2.py is not included,
>> confirming the snapshot's age.  I'm now getting my updates from git, but a
>> friend I introduced to Leo seemed to end up with an old version by using
>> the nightly snapshot option.
>>
>
> (Forwarded from Terry)
>
> Thanks for the heads up, I'll have a look.
>
> yahoo isn't sending my mail, so forward this to the list if you would,
> thanks.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: git: done; Issue tracker?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I think we should have all the tickets in one place, i.e. github


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:24 PM, lewis  wrote:

> +1 for github. It's working fine for me.
> I tend towards leaving the old issues back on launchpad.
>
> Lewis
>
>
> On Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:46:08 AM UTC+11, Matt Wilkie wrote:
>>
>>
>> ~ issue migration is unecessary. Leave old stuff as old stuff and only
>> create new bugs/requests as they arise, link backwards as needed. 
>> (Nunit
>> )
>> 
>>
>> My personal opinion is that we should use all of GitHub's facilities:
>> code, issues, wiki, and perhaps even github pages for leoeditor.com.
>> Leo's internet presence is rather fractured and this is a good opportunity
>> to pull everything together into a more cohesive and integrated whole.
>>
>> I'd give the github-issue-importer a trial run or two. If it works out of
>> the box, great, otherwise proceed with "leave old stuff as old stuff".
>>
>> My 2c.
>>
>> -matt
>>
>>
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Re: Leo program fails to show content of a certain Leo outline ...

[Ville M. Vainio]

I just do "git init; git add foo.leo" in any directory where I do work I
would mind losing.

Of course this is not "cloud backup", but it's a useful local time machine
in case you screw up


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Fidel N  wrote:

> The way to do it with dropbox is just install, then drop the files in its
> folder.
> Then, they automatically backup any time the file changes.
>
> But Im interested on that, how would you do that with git?
>
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Re: Leo program fails to show content of a certain Leo outline ...

[Ville M. Vainio]

Or better yet, create local git repos and commit regularly.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Fidel N  wrote:

> I know for this time its probably too late, but I would suggest you to
> keep all your leo files in dropbox or alike.
> This way, all the previous versions up to 1 month are automatically stored
> (for free), so you can always roll back if something unexpected happens.
>
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Re: Tabbed UI weirdness on Mac

[Ville M. Vainio]

I have noted the same thing. I think this is a reason tabbed UI is not
default on mac :)


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:58 AM, Largo84  wrote:

> After much wailing and gnashing of teeth I finally got Leo to run on Mac
> OS (Mavericks). Now trying to get my tabbed UI I'm used to from Windows to
> work the same way on the Mac. A few things I see:
>
>1. --gui=qttabs is apparently not the default on this installation,
>any idea how to make it the default?
>2. When I launch Leo using --gui=qttabs I get a tabbed UI, but the
>usual menu bar at the top of the screen goes away (File, Edit, Outline,
>Plugins...etc.)
>3. Copying text from the log pane does not work (Command-C or
>Edit>Copy). Copying works fine from the body pane.
>
> Anyone else having similar experience or ideas on how to make the UI work
> on the Mac similar to Windows?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
>
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Re: unadorned node body

[Ville M. Vainio]

p.b gives you the body
On Feb 17, 2014 4:58 PM, "Kent Tenney"  wrote:

> Is there a way to retrieve the plain content of
> a node body? I am seeing p.script inserting an
> encoding line.
>
> Thanks,
> Kent
>
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Re: Warning: dealing with git line endings

[Ville M. Vainio]

Are we positive that we need .gitattributes at all? Is there a reason that
lines with LF would be converted to CRLF on local machine?

The way I see it, every line ending should be preserved as is, since Leo
doesn't require CRLF on windows, and doesn't benefit from those either.


On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Jacob Peck  wrote:

> On 2/14/2014 9:48 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> I am considering adding a .gitattributes file at the top level of the
>> repo containing:: text eol=lf
>>
>> If I am not mistaken, this forces all line endings to be Linux line
>> endings.  Without this setting, reStructuredText and/or Sphinx has trouble
>> with .rst files.
>>
>> However when I did "git add ." I got the following bizarre warnings:
>>
>> warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/LeoDocs.leo.
>> The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
>> warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/html/conf.py.
>> The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
>> warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/leoProjects.txt.
>> The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
>> warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/leoToDo.txt.
>> The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
>>
>> These messages seem exactly backwards.
>>
>> There are also some not-very-clear warnings at the end of this page:
>> https://help.github.com/articles/dealing-with-line-endings.
>>
>> I haven't committed or pushed anything.  Any advice about what to do next?
>>
>> Edward
>> --
>>
> According to this SO answer, you're fine: http://stackoverflow.com/a/
> 20653073
>
> What that setting does is converts all CRLF characters to LF characters
> during the commit -- so in the repo they will always be LF.  On
> checkout/clone/whatever, they'll be automatically converted to the
> appropriate ending for the platform you're on.
>
> The repo will *always* contain LF characters, regardless of the
> line-endings the committers use.
>
> That is, if I'm reading it right...
>
> -->Jake
>
>
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Re: How is the move to git going for you?

[Ville M. Vainio]

+1. No change needed here


On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Jacob Peck  wrote:

> On 2/14/2014 7:52 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> Should we restrict access to the git repo?  Your thoughts, please.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>>  Define 'restrict access'.  As it stands now, only those in the
> 'leo-editor' organization have write access.  We could change that, but
> it's currently in the same state it was over on bzr/launchpad, with a lower
> user count.
>
> If, for example, we changed it so that only you had write access, I feel
> like development would stagnate, as we'd need your approval to push things
> like plugins, quick bugfixes, etc.  I think, from experience with other
> projects, that having a single person with absolute control over a repo
> leads to significant delays in getting new code in master.
>
> A middle ground would be, say, four or five developers with write access
> to master, and everyone else works with pull requests... but I kind of
> dislike that idea too...
>
> Leo isn't, in my opinion, an unstable piece of software that would benefit
> from the walled garden approach.  The day-to-day state of the code in the
> repo is perfectly stable for power-users (due to the extensive unit tests
> and such), and often has important bugfixes that the previous release
> version doesn't.  I think the relatively open approach to handling repo
> permissions on launchpad has contributed to this, and I can't imagine
> walling of Leo's git repo would have a positive effect.
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> -->Jake
>
>
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Re: git: done; Issue tracker?

[Ville M. Vainio]

+1 for github, mainly because 'everyone' has github account and therefore
the effort to file a bug is very low for casual users. The speed is a big
plus as well.
On Feb 12, 2014 7:46 PM, "Matt Wilkie"  wrote:

> Something we haven't talked about in the migration yet is what to do with
> issues.
>
> In a brief survey of other projects I've learned:
>
> - Launchpad Issue tracker has more features than Github (in 2011 anyway,
> has probably changed a little bit. See OpenStack migration 
> plan,
> a good overview and evaluation of things to consider)
>
> + general consensus seems to be that in almost all respects GitHub is
> noticeably faster than Launchpad, something reflected in my personal
> experience, but perhaps not in China? c.f. ZoomQuiet in other thread.
>
> + there is an Launchpad to Github issue 
> importer,
> no idea how well it works. Hasn't had much commit activity, but that could
> because it  solves the problem and then isn't used again.
>
> ~ issue migration is unecessary. Leave old stuff as old stuff and only
> create new bugs/requests as they arise, link backwards as needed. 
> (Nunit
> )
> 
>
> My personal opinion is that we should use all of GitHub's facilities:
> code, issues, wiki, and perhaps even github pages for leoeditor.com.
> Leo's internet presence is rather fractured and this is a good opportunity
> to pull everything together into a more cohesive and integrated whole.
>
> I'd give the github-issue-importer a trial run or two. If it works out of
> the box, great, otherwise proceed with "leave old stuff as old stuff".
>
> My 2c.
>
> -matt
>
>
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Re: How is the move to git going for you?

[Ville M. Vainio]

It's better to use "git archive"

E.g;

git archive -o latest.zip HEAD


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Jacob Peck  wrote:

> On 2/12/2014 9:28 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:41:49 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> Sometime today I'll update Leo's home page to point to the new repo.
>>
>> What about the daily snapshots?  Can they capture the git repo?
>>
>>  Here's a bash script to make a .gz snapshot of a git repo:
>
> 
> #!/bin/bash
>
> repo="g...@github.com:leo-editor/leo-editor.git"
> reponame='leo-editor'
> destination="/some/path/to/work/from"
> destfile="leo-editor-snapshot"
>
> # logic
> cd $destination
> rm -rf $reponame
> git clone $repo
> tar cf ${destfile}.tar ${reponame}/*
> gzip ${destfile}.tar
> 
>
> Terry probably already knows all of that though :p
>
> -->Jake
>
>  Edward
>>
>
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Re: How is the move to git going for you?

[Ville M. Vainio]

"git gui" is a quirky tool that I wouldn't recommend for beginners. I
recommend installing SourceTree if you are on windows or mac:
http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/

Also: I have never heard of anyone using "credential store". Uploading the
ssh keys to github is the way to go.



On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Jacob Peck  wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2014 8:41 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>
>
>>  2. Storing credentials avoids having to type passwords:
>>> https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-
>>> credential-store.html
>>>
>>>  So does giving github your public ssh key: https://help.github.com/
>> articles/generating-ssh-keys
>>
>
> This works in github itself, but hasn't worked for me using git gui.
>
> My plan is to avoid git gui entirely, using the command line to launch
> difftool ( a gui diff).
>
> EKR
>
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Re: I'm back

[Ville M. Vainio]

Not just "sexy", it's the de facto standard version control solution in
2014. If you use anything besides git, you need pretty good rationale or
people are going to question the choice.



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Re: Ipython notebook, leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

My current thoughts on this:

- I have no bandwidth to create a full "qml notebook". That's why I have
changed my aspirations to actually using the web ipython notebook, and
hooking that up to data in leo instance somehow.

- Static reference to .ipynb is of limited usability. I have found myself
executing stuff in ipython notebook, more than I have just read through the
notebooks.

- My old "go to" solution would have been to just launch ipython kernel in
Leo process, but this seems fragile and it breaks between e.g. ubuntu
verisions. Therefore launching some rpc server in Leo and communicating
over socket seems like the safer thing to do (there is pre-existing work
around this, e.g. http://leoeditor.com/plugins.html#leoremote-py ; you
would just need convenient client library).

- I have no active development project around this currently; these things
usually happen when I have an acute need :).
 It's more like a background thought process.


On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:53 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

> Hi Ville,
>
> One of the things that brings me back again and again to this community,
> though most times I'm not a very visible user here, may be because most
> programming discussions escape my understanding, is the lot of interesting
> stuff happening here and a lot of affinities of thoughts on the
> possibilities. Some time ago I wrote about the combination of IPython + Le,
> offering the first the interactive rendering and computation, and the
> second, structure and deepness, here:
>
> http://mutabit.com/mutabit/default/wiki/ipython-deepness
>
> I don't know is there is someway of creating @ipython nodes for
> rendering/starting in a special body pane IPython notebooks coupled between
> them, but this seems a really good use case for scientific computing and an
> argument to think in a QML web enabled interface for collaboration in
> interactive web enabled scientific outlines.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> El 22/04/12 16:28, Ville M. Vainio escribió:
>
>  (idle late night thoughs)
>>
>> Attached is a screenshot of ipython notebook, if you haven't tried it yet.
>>
>> How I see it, this could be one possible arrangement for our "leo as a
>> grid" UI concept, enabled by exploration of the free-layout work.
>>
>> The notebook is a linear (1 dimensional) scrolling pane; I wonder
>> whether free-layout's splitter approach works with this one? Splitters
>> are more typically used in non-scrollable containers, but if it can be
>> made to work like this, great :).
>>
>> We can use this kind of linear arrangement even for deeper trees - if
>> a node is a child of parent, indent it a but more than a parent.
>> Practical benefit of this is that we could put "computation" at depth
>> 1, and the result of the computation as child of that, at depth 2.
>> Navigability is lost if we add much more depth, but 2 levels should be
>> just fine.
>>
>> PS. Incidentally, the ipython notebook work that started some years
>> ago was a spark for me to look at leo-ipython bridge, and actually
>> become a member of leo community ;-). I saw that leo offered a much
>> easier way to do a notebook/workbook like concept.
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Getting started with git workflow

[Ville M. Vainio]

There is a somewhat similar workflow that is more popular and better
supported by "boxed" tools, called "git flow":

https://github.com/nvie/gitflow

(the main difference seems to be readily available wrapper tools for branch
management, and "devel" branch).

I recommend we adopt that once we have got started. It is also natively
supported by SourceTree (i.e. there is "git flow" menu).

>From the start though, we don't necessarily need to adopt a "sophisticated"
flow like this, committing directly to master on first few weeks while
adapting to git seems ok. Even that will have benefits over bzr we are
currently using. I.e. I don't want to see "too complicated workflow"
becoming an obstacle in adopting git.



On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:12 AM, gf  wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 7:38:51 PM UTC+7, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> I guess it's pretty clear that migrating the repo from bzr won't be a big
>> problem.
>>
>> Are we otherwise clear on how to work with git? I guess the flow won't be
>> perfect from the get-go, i.e. we would continue using it quite a bit like
>> bzr - committing directly to master, merges instead of rebases etc.
>>
>> I also recommend win/mac users to check out SourceTree, which is quite
>> handy once you have grasped the basic git use:
>>
>> http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/ - private <http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/>
>>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> The git workflow adopted by the IPython developers is here:
>
>
> http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/dev/development/gitwash/development_workflow.html
>
> I believe that they gave this quite a bit of thought before adopting it.
>
> -gyro
>
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Getting started with git workflow

[Ville M. Vainio]

Hey,

I guess it's pretty clear that migrating the repo from bzr won't be a big
problem.

Are we otherwise clear on how to work with git? I guess the flow won't be
perfect from the get-go, i.e. we would continue using it quite a bit like
bzr - committing directly to master, merges instead of rebases etc.

I also recommend win/mac users to check out SourceTree, which is quite
handy once you have grasped the basic git use:

http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/

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Re: Init myLeoSettings from web

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yeah, but the attack vector is very small esp. if we use "reliable" hosts
like github, see e.g.

http://brunch.io/skeletons.html

The attraction would be getting started without understanding anything
about Leo, just how to run the command line.



On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Jacob Peck  wrote:

> On 1/6/2014 11:52 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
>> Here's an idea: new command line argument to launchleo:
>>
>> python launchleo.py --init=http://leoeditor.com/templates/trivial1.leo
>>
>> This would just copy the file from the url as your myLeoSettings.leo, as
>> a "starting point".
>>
>> We could use that in docs to bootstrap leo easily.
>>
> Neat idea, but could be a problem if someone compromised leoeditor.com...
> though I don't see that happening, I'm a paranoid type.
>
> The Io progamming language has a similar feature -- it can fetch and run
> Io source code from any generic URL, that I've used to effect in tutorials,
> hosting libraries from github and telling people to pull them in:
>
> Io> doURL("https://github.com/gatesphere/blog-resources/raw/
> master/downloads/source/io/LSystem.io")
>
> -->Jake
>
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Init myLeoSettings from web

[Ville M. Vainio]

Here's an idea: new command line argument to launchleo:

python launchleo.py --init=http://leoeditor.com/templates/trivial1.leo

This would just copy the file from the url as your myLeoSettings.leo, as a
"starting point".

We could use that in docs to bootstrap leo easily.

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Needed: ability to bind Ctrl ("Meta") key on Mac

[Ville M. Vainio]

What Qt calls "Ctrl" is actually called Cmd (or "Apple key") on mac.

There is actually a Ctrl key on the keyboard as well; it is called "Meta",
or Qt.MetaModifier by Qt

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16809139/qt-how-to-define-cmdkey-shortcut-for-mac

Id'd like to be able to bind keys like:

edit-headline = Meta+h

(incidentally, I bound f2 to edit-headline now since ctrl+h is "hide
window" on Mac).

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Re: [Leo Editor] "Emacs needs to move to git" (from bzr)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Well, I don't think we want a 3 gig repository for daily work.


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
>
>> I get 1.1 Mb / sec. downloand :-) but 87 Kb / sec.
>> upload
>>
>
>
> good point. I was thinking of standard dnld speeds. Unfortunately I've no
> idea what the upload payload size is. I think Jake's idea of breaking
> things into pieces is probably wise if this current attempt doesn't get far.
>
> -matt
>
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Re: Fw: [Leo Editor] "Emacs needs to move to git" (from bzr)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yes, bzr trunk will be enough for main git repo, and it's not like we would
be deleting the old repos in the process.
On Jan 5, 2014 1:50 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:
>
>> this is a more informative starting point
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19930832/converting-big-bzr-repository-to-git-what-to-expect.
>> Initial experiments look like it won't be too bad. I'll have more to report
>> later.
>>
>
> Thanks for this, Matt.  I personally would be happy just to migrate the
> history of the bzr trunk.  That will provide
>
> more than enough data for any future archeologists.
>
> Edward
>
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Nov 2013 theme system

[Ville M. Vainio]

I noted there is a reference to "Nov 2013 theme system" in themes.leo

I only noted this after creating a mac-friendly leo_dark_2 theme, not sure
if this should be ported to new scheme.

I basically changed font face to "Monaco" (based on suggestion by some leo
user earlier, can't recall who), and reduced font size to 12px.

PIc here:

https://plus.google.com/103097156557482112329/posts/Rhqyq8AmTqV

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Re: How to update a Leo outline from an external editor without closing the external editor

[Ville M. Vainio]

Right click -> refresh from disk


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:34 AM, wgw  wrote:

> Leo allows editing of a tree in an external editor; I use Sublime, mainly
> because I can see the whole tree as continuous text, edit it and then have
> it go magically back into tree form under Leo.
>
> The problem is that, though I close the temp file in Sublime, the tree is
> not updated in Leo until I close Sublime itself. I sometimes don't want to
> close Sublime at all.
>
> Is there any way to trigger that update manually?
>
> Some editors will flag external changes to the file being edited and when
> you come back to the editor screen it will ask if the file should be
> updated. That would do the trick for my Leo problem, but a manual update
> would work as well.
>
> Is this functionality already available?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bill
>
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Re: './external' or './extensions' for py module?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I would vote for "external" instead. "External" means "third party modules
that just happen to be bundled with Leo".


On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:
>
>> Working towards the goal of adding desktop & Startmenu shortcuts, and
>> file associations, in Windows when installing from pypi.python.org:
>>
>
> My apologies for the delay in responding.
>
>
> - I'm thinking of adding the winshell module  (28kb,
>> https://winshell.readthedocs.org/en/latest/) to make things easier.
>> Would it go in ./leo/external or ./leo/extensions?
>>
>
> I'm not real sure myself.  Looking at leoPy.leo, there seems to be @file
> nodes for the entries in the leo/external directory.  Furthermore, the
> docstring for  g.importExtension is:
>
> '''Try to import a module.  If that fails, try to import the module
> from Leo's extensions directory.
> moduleName is the module's name, without file extension.'''
>
> So the answer is, leo/extensions.
>
> I'll add readme.txt files to the extensions and external directories,
> clarifying this point.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: my 1st Leo Blog post

[Ville M. Vainio]

Looks fine from here :)


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> is up: http://leo-editor.github.io/register_leo.html
>
> It's my first time using Pelican and Github.io; hopefully it was done
> properly?
>
> -matt
>
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Re: Key handling broken on mac ("Option key")

[Ville M. Vainio]

Same problem - Option + 2 gives you "calltips on/off", instead of "@"
character you get in other programs.


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
>> I'll check when you have the fix in
>>
> Please test rev 6229.  Not tested on MacOS (I'm reinstalling on MacOS
> now), but as I read the diffs it should be equivalent to pre-rev 6107 code
> on MacOS.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Key handling broken on mac ("Option key")

[Ville M. Vainio]

I'll check when you have the fix in
On Nov 4, 2013 6:25 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:25:10 AM UTC-5, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>>
>> I am trying Leo on OSX with Finnish keyboard layout.
>>
>> To get the @ character, you have to press Option + 2. Option doubles as
>> "alt", so I guess it's misinterpreted as alt-2.
>>
>
> This should be fixed for 4.11 final.   According to the bzr logs, rev 6107
> claimed to be responsible.  The only substantial change was the "isPlain"
> logic in selfInsertCommand, in leoEditCommands.py.
>
> I'll attempt a fix today, but this will be mostly guesswork--I'll need
> help verifying that various keyboards work correctly.
>
> EKR
>
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PlantUML

[Ville M. Vainio]

A colleague was using PlantUML to draw flow diagrams.

I thought it seems pretty nifty - like higher level wrapper for GraphViz.
Integration to Leo, e.g. viewrendered feature, could be interesting

http://plantuml.sourceforge.net/screenshot.html

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Pysonar2

[Ville M. Vainio]

I know at least Edward likes this kind of stuff:

https://github.com/yinwang0/pysonar2

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Re: What does the 'go-anywhere' command do?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yes, it's one of those things that bumped into key handling complications.
It's ambition was to be like sublime text go-anywhere.
On Oct 28, 2013 7:53 PM, "Terry Brown"  wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 13:46:01 -0400
> Jacob Peck  wrote:
>
> > It's defined in quicksearch.py (a.k.a. the nav tab plugin).  It opens up
> > a widget in the top right, floating above whatever is there... and it
> > doesn't really do anything visible with anything you input.
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/leo-editor/epwszW5qh4Y
>
> not sure if it's considered finished though, don't use it.
>
> global-search is way cool though, from the `bigdash` plugin.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> > Very confusing.  It also lacks a docstring (like much of the
> > quicksearch.py commands).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -->Jake
> >
>
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Re: Please tell us: what are the benefits of Leo to *you*

[Ville M. Vainio]

- The outliner format helps me organise/reorganise my thoughts gradually,
instead of putting everything in the right place from the beginning. I
write a lot of body text with few headlines, and Leo's approach leaves lots
of space for the body text and therefore suits my workflow. I find that I
end up revisiting notes composed on Leo more often than notes slapped into
tools like Evernote or random files in the file system.

- With Leo, I can interleave "notes" (most of the content), generated files
and even random data and python scripts to manipulate that data. I process
this data in various tools, but Leo helps me group it together in "project
specific" Leo files.

- I know how to script the outline, so I can easily whip up different tools
for my needs that deal with the headline structure directly.

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Re: Key handling broken on mac ("Option key")

[Ville M. Vainio]

.. and what it actually does is, toggles Calltips on and off.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Ville M. Vainio  wrote:

> I am trying Leo on OSX with Finnish keyboard layout.
>
> To get the @ character, you have to press Option + 2. Option doubles as
> "alt", so I guess it's misinterpreted as alt-2.
>
> I recall there were email threads about alt gr, leo and international
> keyboards, but I thought there was a resolution for that problem back then
> (until I actually tried Leo on mac, that is).
>
> Apart from this glitch, getting Leo running on Mac is much easier than I
> remembered (just use homebrew to install PyQt).
>

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Key handling broken on mac ("Option key")

[Ville M. Vainio]

I am trying Leo on OSX with Finnish keyboard layout.

To get the @ character, you have to press Option + 2. Option doubles as
"alt", so I guess it's misinterpreted as alt-2.

I recall there were email threads about alt gr, leo and international
keyboards, but I thought there was a resolution for that problem back then
(until I actually tried Leo on mac, that is).

Apart from this glitch, getting Leo running on Mac is much easier than I
remembered (just use homebrew to install PyQt).

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Re: Rev 6151: g.execute_shell_commands

[Ville M. Vainio]

On related note, check threadutil.py / async_syscmd. It uses QProcess and
gives callback when command has been completed (avoiding threads completely
due to Qt even loop integration)

def async_syscmd(cmd, onfinished):
proc = QtCore.QProcess()

def cmd_handler(exitstatus):
out = proc.readAllStandardOutput()
err = proc.readAllStandardError()
#print "got",out, "e", err, "r", exitstatus
onfinished(exitstatus, out, err)

proc.finished[int].connect(cmd_handler)

proc.start(cmd)
#garbage.append(proc)



On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> The g.execute_shell_commands function executes a list of shell commands,
> each in a separate processes.
> *Important*: unlike subprocess.call, each command in the list is a
> separate command (commands are not concatenated).
>
> This function waits for each command to complete, unless the command
> starts with '&'. For example::
>
> g.execute_shell_commands(['echo hello','echo world','&pwd'])
>
> Here it is::
>
> def execute_shell_commands(commands,trace = False):
> '''
> Execute each shell command in a separate process.
> Wait for each command to complete, except those starting with '&'
> '''
> for command in commands:
> wait = not command.startswith('&')
> if command.startswith('&'): command = command[1:].strip()
> if trace: g.trace('wait',wait,'command',command)
> proc = subprocess.Popen(command,shell=True)
> if wait: proc.communicate()
>
> I have used g.execute_shell_command to great effect in @button make-sphinx
> in LeoDocs.leo.
> I'll discuss this next in a reply to the thread "@button make-html
> @key=Alt-period".
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Proposed workaround to refresh-from-disk problems

[Ville M. Vainio]

I use refresh-from-disk to sync outline with files I edited elsewhere.
Maybe we could use different string ("load from disk") for new nodes?
On Sep 26, 2013 7:51 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> Refresh from disk is the feature of Ville's contextmenu plugin that I use
> the most.  This post proposes a way to use refresh-from-disk safely, or
> mostly so.
>
> Any change discussed here will happen after b1 goes out the door, so there
> is plenty of time for discussion.  I encourage your comments.
>
> As discussed here:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/leo-editor/nIl3ud7Tbig,
> refresh-from-disk has severe problems when the refreshed file has been
> changed in the Leo outline.  But my workflow uses refresh-from-disk only to
> load external files into *empty* @file nodes.  The typical scenario is::
>
> 1. Create an @ node (that is, an @file, @auto or @edit node) for an
> already existing external file, one that has already been written by Leo.
>
> 2. Use refresh-from-disk (accessible at present only using right-click) to
> populate the @ node.
>
> Happily, Leo already has some infrastructure that remembers which @
> nodes Leo has read when loading the .leo file.  Leo will warn if we are
> about to overwrite a file that *wasn't* read during startup.
>
> I propose to use this infrastructure to enable refresh-from-disk only for
> @ nodes that a) are empty and b) were not read at startup.
>
> This should be safe, although not completely safe.  We can imagine a
> situation in which the never-read external file nevertheless shares a clone
> with the .leo file.  In that case, there will still be problems if the
> shared node has been altered somewhere in the .leo file.  Still this, is a
> remote possibility, much less likely than what triggered 1090950.  We
> have been living with bug 1090950 a long time; we can live with an even
> rarer bug for longer yet.
>
> The potential objection I see is that refresh-from-disk might be useful in
> other situation that the proposal seeks to outlaw.  Well, so be it.
> Refresh from disk on an altered, previously-read outline seems to dangerous
> to allow at present.
>
> BTW, there is always a workaround to problems with refresh-from-disk.
> Simply save the .leo file and reload.  The save will be safe for never-read
> @ nodes, provided that you say "no" when asked whether you want to
> overwrite the existing file!
>
> Your comments, please Amigos.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Ville, what is the status of leo.core.leoIPython.py?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Agree


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:27 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
>> That stuff is obsolete; valuaspace should be considered the "ipython
>> independent" successors of the work in leoNode etc.
>>
>
> Thanks for the clarification!
>
> As I was updating the documentation, I realized the new ipython-exec
> command doesn't work very much like the old
>
> push_ipython_script function.  For example, this doesn't work as before::
>
> QQQ
> Suppose that a node had the following contents::
>
> 1+2
> print("hello")
> 3+4
> def f(x):
> return x.upper()
> f('hello world')
>
> If you press alt+I on that node, you will see the following in Leo log
> window (IPython tab)::
>
> In: 1+2
> <2> 3
> In: 3+4
> <4> 7
> In: f('hello world')
> <6> 'HELLO WORLD'
> QQQ
>
> The new code just prints 'hello', with no change to IPython's history at
> all.
>
> This probably isn't too significant; it's just a change.  Do you agree?
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Ville, what is the status of leo.core.leoIPython.py?

[Ville M. Vainio]

That stuff is obsolete; valuaspace should be considered the "ipython
independent" successors of the work in leoNode etc.


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Edward K. Ream wrote:

> I suspect it may be useful, but it contains many old-style IPython imports.
>
> My *guess* is that most or all the stuff in GlobalIPythonManager is
> obsolete, but I'm not so sure about the leoNode class and all the rest.
>
> Much of the ILeo chapter in Leo's docs deals with these classes, so this
> is not a behind-the-scenes question.
>
> Please let me know your intentions.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Do something new?

[Ville M. Vainio]

If you feel like looking into something new around tools, there could be
worse choices than looking into git ;-).




On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> The thought recently popped into my head that I should "do something new".
>
> As I ponder this "advice", the only valuable contribution it seems to make
> (at present) is to encourage me to think more about making programming
> tools.  I do not intend to attempt major life changes.  Another phrase
> comes to mind: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ;-)
>
> Tools have always been my first love, so you could say that this advice is
> ironic!  Perhaps I really should more of my time to tutorials and
> marketing, but my heart will probably never be there.  But Imo we have only
> begun to scratch the surface of what analysis tools might add to
> programming.  And if there is any real point to my static type checking
> project,
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/python-static-type-checking, it
> would be to create one or more nifty new tools.
>
> Edward
>
>
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Fargo: Leo in the cloud :.)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Fargo is an outliner "in the cloud":

http://smallpicture.com/fargoPress.html

It was fun to see that crtl+u, d, l, r work ;-)

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Re: rich text

[Ville M. Vainio]

What if the nodes have nontrivial content?
 On Aug 15, 2013 3:03 PM, "Jacob Peck"  wrote:

> On 8/15/2013 7:38 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
>> I would speculate this causes huge performance regression when moving
>> through the tree with cursor keys (and e.g. across set of siblings where
>> every other node is @rich, every other is not). Am I wrong?
>>
>>
>>  I just tested this out.  There is a very minor slowdown on my machine -
> I wouldn't say it's enough to cause an issue.  Perhaps there is a solution
> though - only switch editors if the node stays selected for at least 0.5
> seconds?  Not sure of the logistics behind that.
>
> I used the following tree:
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  xmlns:leo="http://www.leo-**editor.org/2011/leo<http://www.leo-editor.org/2011/leo>"
> >
> 
> 
> Test
> **@rich blah
> **@norich blah
> **@rich blah
> **@norich blah
> **@rich blah
> **@norich blah
> **@rich blah
> **@norich blah
> **@rich blah
> **@norich blah
> **@rich blah
> **@norich blah
> 
> 
> 
>  str_mtime="1376567951.0" str_atime="1376567983.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567901.0" str_atime="1376567982.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567909.0" str_atime="1376567958.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567928.0" str_atime="1376567966.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567928.0" str_atime="1376567967.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567929.0" str_atime="1376567968.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567929.0" str_atime="1376567968.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567930.0" str_atime="1376567970.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567935.0" str_atime="1376567967.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567937.0" str_atime="1376567968.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567944.0" str_atime="1376567968.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567945.0" str_atime="1376567968.0">
>  str_mtime="1376567948.0" str_atime="1376567971.0">
> 
> 
> 
>
> -->Jake
>
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Re: rich text

[Ville M. Vainio]

I would speculate this causes huge performance regression when moving
through the tree with cursor keys (and e.g. across set of siblings where
every other node is @rich, every other is not). Am I wrong?


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Terry Brown wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:21:34 -0500
> Terry Brown  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:32:45 -0400
> > Jacob Peck  wrote:
> >
> > > Terry, any chance of supporting a '@rich' node type, such that when an
> > > @rich node is selected, it automatically switches to the CKEditor, and
> > > perhaps autosaves without user intervention?  I suppose that could be
> an
> > > add-on plugin, but it seems like it would make sense in the core of
> this
> > > plugin as well.
> >
> > Excellent idea.  So the rule would be:
> >
> > cke-text-open is called whenever a node is selected that includes
> > "@rich" in its headline, or is the descendant of a node which includes
> > "@rich" in its headline.
>
> This is pushed:
>
> @rich in the headline or first few lines (1000 characters) of a node or
> its ancestors will automatically open the rich text editor. @norich cancels
> this action. Manually opened editors are not affected.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> > And when rich text is opened by the above mechanism, it will be
> > automatically closed when a node not matching the above criteria is
> > selected.
> >
> > I don't know if you need any way of disabling the behavior, I suppose a
> > toggle wouldn't hurt, but you can access the Body pane when the rich
> > text pane is showing using the free_layout right click on the divider
> > functionality.
> >
> > Cheers -Terry
> >
>
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Re: rich text

[Ville M. Vainio]

Looks quite powerful, and something I could be interested in using :)

Apparently this can be themed to look less out-of-place w/ dark color
themes.


On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:30 PM, Terry Brown wrote:

> Got the CKEditor thing working :-)
>
> leo-editor-latest.zip is currently 5.7M
>
> with CKEditor included, it goes up to 7.0M, but now you can do stuff
> like the attached, so I think it's justified.
>
> It would also be a bit more overhead on an initial bzr pull.
>
> Any comments?  It seems to be working now, I'm going to wrap it up as a
> plugin.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Leo adoption and the Leo user community

[Ville M. Vainio]

On documenting side: time.to post more on the leo-editor blog :). I think
I'll post about full text search next (bigdash stuff)
On Aug 9, 2013 3:56 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:25 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I am a new user. (actually, I am still testing Leo),
>>
>
> Welcome aboard. Newbies often have the clearest picture of Leo's
> failings.  All of Leo's core developers take their opinions seriously.
>
>
>> and i could not help noticing that the use of Leo does not seem to be
>> very widespread.
>>
> Very few people talk about it and the user community seems to be quite
>> small.
>>
>
> It's hard to say.  For example, a single download to a professor can, and
> has, represented
>
> dozens or hundreds of users.  This reminds me: Leo should encourage users
> to send "postcards" to us so that we can have a better idea of who is
> actually using Leo.  Randy Pausch's Alice project (Alice.org) used to do
> this.  Not sure if it still does.
>
>> In terms of user adoption, it seems to me that Leo is nowhere near that
>> of other main text editors.
>>
>
> I think that's right.
>
>
>> Sure, Leo is in a category of its own, being an outlining editor, as
>> opposed to a simple editor, but should this not make it more popular,
>> instead of more obscure?
>>
>
> Not necessarily.  People have a large investment in their existing tool
> chain.  This makes us all reluctant to make big changes.
>
>
>> I really don't get it.
>> From what I have seen, Leo has excellent capabilities. And yet it is
>> still a semi-obscure application.
>>
>
>
>> What are the reasons for this? Is it just a matter of not being
>> publicized enough, or is there something else? Or, let's say, what are the
>> complaints that people have against Leo?
>>
>
> Leo's core developers have asked these questions often.  It's good to be
> reminded of them.
>
> It's true: I suck as a publicist ;-)  But there substantive problems as
> well, especially for teams:
>
> 1. Leo naturally wants to insert sentinels into external files.  This is
> the only *safe* way to retain outline structure.  Many people, especially
> those wanting to dis Leo, object to the sentinels.  True, there are
> alternatives to sentinels (using @auto and @shadow), but they aren't as
> powerful as @file.
>
> 2. Sharing .leo files themselves (rather than sharing the external files)
> is problematical.  There are workarounds (so-called "ref" files).  See the
> FAQ entry, How should I use Leo with bzr/git/hg/svn/cvs?,
> http://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#id21.
>
> Finally, you should realize that it was never my goal to displace emacs or
> vim.  My reasons for doing Leo were to create a tool that:
>
> 1. allows me to understand complex computer programs.
> 2. expands the power of scripting.
>
> Those are still my personal focus.  Having said that, it's recently become
> apparent that documenting what Leo can *already* do has top priority.  Here
> are the top three items on the list of desired outcomes for Leo:
>
> 1. Newbies can install Leo without problems.
> 2. Newbies can learn Leo's main features easily.
> 3. *Good* documentation exists for all important plugins and features.
>
>>
>> Please, help me to understand this puzzle.
>>
>
> HTH.  Thanks for your interesting question.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Leo History, the early years

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thought: if we ever move to git, it would be good to collect all the
history we have to the repo.
 On Aug 10, 2013 12:08 AM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:
>
>>
>> I've located the early years CVS (Concurrent Version System) 
>> repositoryand added that to the Ohloh entry.
>>>
>>
> Thanks.
>
>
>>
>> This narrows the remaining no-data gap in the open source incarnation of
>> Leo to 2 years (2006-2008). What source code management system was being
>> used during these years? is it still available somewhere?
>
>
> I think it was tigris svn.
>
> EKR
>
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Re: Ville, what's the status of QML notebook?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Not at this time. Still at prototype stage (otoh, I have a similar
initiative for improving ipython notebook integration, now that ipython
event loop integration broke down in latest ubuntu)
On Aug 10, 2013 4:13 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

>
>
> On Saturday, August 10, 2013 8:09:51 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> > Where is this work now, and how would you like it described in the
> release notes?
>
> Oh.  I see it's on the contrib branch.  Anything more you would like to
> say about it?
>
> EKR
>
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Re: Ville, should LeoReader be part of the highlights?

[Ville M. Vainio]

It's not related to specific leo version - rather, it's a standalone mobile
app.

Should not be highlighted.(yet). It works, but I plan to improve it a lot
still (during august)
On Aug 9, 2013 10:07 PM, "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> What's the status of this?
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Rich Text support in Leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

There is a rich tect editor "demo" in stickynotes plugin.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:07:14 +0200
> dufriz  wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the clarification.
> > >From what you wrote, I take it that no form of rich text support
> (whether
> > Microsoft's RTF or otherwise) is going to be added *natively* to Leo
> (i.e.
> > excluding plugins).
> > Of course, this is your choice as developers, but allow me to point out
> > that this limits considerably the chances of Leo to compete with other
> > applications such as Notecase and the like.
> >
> > What I would love to see is a *native* implementation of some form of
> rich
> > text (at the very least: font colors, sizes, italic, etc - that is, the
> > basics) within Leo. Only then would I be willing to adopt Leo as my main
> > production tool.
> > Having the export tools (to HTML and to RTF) are not good enough, because
> > what I need is to be able to *see* the projected outcome visually on the
> > screen, while I am working on it.
>
> Just a note that the `view rendered` plugin is a real time presentation
> of the final output of rst, md, etc.  But authoring is still in rst etc.
>
> I think what you're looking for could be added to Leo quite simple *if*
> there's a PyQt compatible Qt rich text editor out there somewhere, we
> just haven't found one yet.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> > I think the question ultimately boils down to: do we want to keep Leo as
> a
> > strictly (or 'mostly') programmer's tool, or should we be also looking at
> > at wider range of uses, such as information storage (PIM and the like)
> and
> > text production tool?
> >
> > >From what I understand, Leo has the potential of serving a wide range of
> > purposes, and it is a pity to see its power restrained.
> > Just adding some (native) support for rich text, in whichever form, will
> be
> > a great improvement.
> >
> > I only hope that the developer does not fail to see how crucial is the
> > point I am making, as it may determine the future success or failure of
> Leo.
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Edward K. Ream  >wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > I'll update the opening words of the docstring to emphasize that the
> > > plugin can render both markdown and rST
> > > .
> > >
> > > Done at rev 5852.
> > >
> > > EKR
> > >
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Mini projects (for my summer holiday)

[Ville M. Vainio]

I don't want to spam the list with my plans that may/may not happen, so
doing it in G+, here's the link:

https://plus.google.com/103097156557482112329/posts/6YhyMZrUUKs

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Re: Leo Reader for Android now up on Google play

[Ville M. Vainio]

Crashes? Ok, time to work on an update then :)
On Jul 7, 2013 1:30 PM, "lewis"  wrote:

> Ville,
>
> It's working well for me and the touch navigation around a leo file seems
> very natural. This is a great step for leo, even though it's only a reader
> at present.
> You are correct in saying you need to install OpenIntents file manager -
> selecting 'Open' without OpenIntents installed crashes Leo Reader.
>
> Thanks
> Lewis
>
> On Sunday, July 7, 2013 4:22:54 AM UTC+10, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>>
>> If you have an Android device, you can try it out:
>>
>> https://play.google.com/store/**apps/details?id=info.vv.**
>> leoreader&feature=search_**result#?t=**W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImluZm8udnYubG**
>> VvcmVhZGVyIl0.<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.vv.leoreader&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImluZm8udnYubGVvcmVhZGVyIl0.>
>>
>> You need to install OpenIntents file manager to make "open file" work.
>> Reasonable way to move .leo files to device is e.g. Dropbox.
>>
>> Needless to say it's not very polished, and it only reads .leo files (no
>> @file nodes etc).
>>
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Re: Rev 5832 adds new settings and completes the new colorizer

[Ville M. Vainio]

Quick observation: Leo feels much faster now (I move around with arrow keys
a lot).

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 9:28 PM, daniel  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Same here. Working several hours a day with apparently nothing wrong. It
> has been working very smoothly.
> Thanks for the great work.
>
> Cheers, Daniel
>
>
> On Friday, July 5, 2013 11:21:20 AM UTC-3, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> I plan no further work unless serious bugs are found. I have been using
>> the new colorer in approximately its present form for several days without
>> a hard crash.
>>
>> The two new settings are as follows, with the indicated defaults:
>>
>> @int colorer_max_lines = 100
>> The maximum number of lines to color at once, when NEW_COLORER is True.
>>
>> @int colorer_delay settings = 200
>> The delay, in milliseconds, to wait before resuming recoloring, when
>> NEW_COLORER is True.
>>
>> The new code has substantially better responsiveness than the old, but
>> you may want to tweak the settings above.  The present code looks like the
>> simplest thing that could possibly work, and is substantially simpler and
>> more robust than previous ideas.  Nevertheless, it is not perfect.
>> Handling very large files is always going to be a bit clumsy, at least
>> until the full text is recolored.  After that, recoloring is very fast, as
>> always.
>>
>> Edward
>>
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Leo Reader for Android now up on Google play

[Ville M. Vainio]

If you have an Android device, you can try it out:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.vv.leoreader&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImluZm8udnYubGVvcmVhZGVyIl0.

You need to install OpenIntents file manager to make "open file" work.
Reasonable way to move .leo files to device is e.g. Dropbox.

Needless to say it's not very polished, and it only reads .leo files (no
@file nodes etc).

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Re: High res icon for Leo needed (512 x 512)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks Fidel and Edward, I'll look into the icons this weekend.

The source code is here:

https://github.com/vivainio/leoreader

Leo "engine" related functionality is actually done in Xtend:

https://github.com/vivainio/leoreader/blob/master/src/com/w/LeoEngine.xtend

I recommend checking Xtend out, it makes Java feel like statically typed
python for most parts (type inference etc):

http://www.eclipse.org/xtend/



On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Fidel Pérez  wrote:

> This is the royalty free image used as source for that one:
>
>
> http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-tribal-lion-image3490018
>
> I did a google-image-search for it, and its the bigger size result it
> finds (and its pretty accurate, I have already found several youtube videos
> just by searching one snapshot).
>
> Hey, just in case you were planning to do that app open source, and if you
> developed it through Leo, I would love to be able to study that app myself
> since I am willing to make easy-quick programming systems, Im starting with
> inside-Leo one, but would love to go Android afterwards.
>
> Thanks for that app btw!
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 4, 2013 9:15:41 PM UTC+2, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>>
>> Is there a high res (512 x 512) icon for Leo somewhere?
>>
>> I've done a Leo file reader app for Android tablets (for bedtime reading
>> of .leo documents ;-), and would need a this kind of image in order to
>> publish the app.
>>
>> I don't want to scale up current small icons since they would look
>> horrilbe.
>>
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High res icon for Leo needed (512 x 512)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Is there a high res (512 x 512) icon for Leo somewhere?

I've done a Leo file reader app for Android tablets (for bedtime reading of
.leo documents ;-), and would need a this kind of image in order to publish
the app.

I don't want to scale up current small icons since they would look horrilbe.

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Re: Syntax coloring: same code, new strategies

[Ville M. Vainio]

I'm not sure interrupting the coloring is an important use case. If we
start coloring "lazily" (i.e. 0.5 - 1 sec after entering the node, users
should not be massively bothered by it).

Rewriting C++ code in python is probably a bad idea performancewise.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>>
>>> Could we start by doing the coloring as we do now, but only request it ~
>>> 1sec after the node has been selected? This way, you wouldn't see the
>>> slowdown from coloring when quickly moving around with cursor keys.
>>
>>
> The more I think of this topic, the more, um, "interesting"  it becomes.
>
> And I was wrong about qsh being just a wrapper.  There is some "real" code
> in the class.  For example: QSyntaxHighlighterPrivate::reformatBlocks.
>
> By creating our own version of this code it may be possible to
> "interruptable" coloring.  The idea is to stop coloring when any event
> appears.  Of course, the problem then becomes how to restart coloring!  The
> answer will depend on whether the event causes the text to change.
>
> Perhaps this is a harder problem than I thought, or maybe the Qt people
> just never thought that an interruptable syntax colorer would be useful.
>
> There are no guarantees, but a plausible first step would be to rewrite
> qsh in Python.  That way we will have full control over the scheduling of
> calls to (the overridden) highlightBlock method.  This is the gateway to
> all of Leo's colorizing code.  It calls the top-level recolor method,
> providing we aren't in @killcolor mode.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Syntax coloring: same code, new strategies

[Ville M. Vainio]

Could we start by doing the coloring as we do now, but only request it ~
1sec after the node has been selected? This way, you wouldn't see the
slowdown from coloring when quickly moving around with cursor keys.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> Two days ago I took a look at the QSyntaxHighlighter (qsh) source code:
> http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/blobs/4.7/src/gui/text/qsyntaxhighlighter.cpp
>
> I was a bit surprised to see that this is just a thin wrapper over
> QTextDocument methods.  Yes, qsh is a useful wrapper, but Leo could do
> without it. If we aren't tied to the qsh code, we are free to repackage it
> in different ways.  If nothing else, this is a useful thought experiment!
>
> The *vital* thing to keep in mind in the following discussion is that the
> vast bulk of Leo's present (complex!) coloring code will remain unchanged.
> I am only considering a slight repackaging of Leo's code.
>
> Suppose we did syntax coloring in a separate thread?  This might solve the
> performance problems completely!  Body text would appear *instantly* in the
> body pane, and the coloring would be applied "later". Of course, there are
> issues: all the "real" coloring must be done in the gui thread, so there is
> non-trivial coordination required.  In particular, the code would have to
> queue results that would then cause calls to setFormat in the main (gui)
> thread.
>
> This morning, when I arose, I saw a simpler alternative.  Suppose Leo does
> all coloring at idle time?  We get the same benefits, but with less
> complications.  No need for a separate thread: the idle-time code
> "simulates" a separate thread.  This is exciting. In essence, we just need
> to do the processing of the over-ridden rehighlight method at idle time.
> That is, Leo would recolor just one line at each idle time.  This keeps the
> response excellent.
>
> It might be possible to get a prototype working in just a few hours.  I'll
> do so asap.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Should this be on wishlist? - Qt change tree view when saving -

[Ville M. Vainio]

It should be considered a bug, not a wishlist item.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Fidel Pérez  wrote:

> Hi:
> When I save the leo file, instead of staying where I am on the leo tree,
> it will go and center the view on the selected node.
> So if I save before editing another node far away, it will focus back
> there, so I have to search for it again.
> I know I can solve it by "selecting the node i want to edit before saving"
> But imo what I suggest is more intuitive (and easy to understand) for the
> user. It took me a while to realize what was happening after I saved, and
> how to go back to where I was, it used to disorient me big time as a noob
> in Leo.
>
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Re: Why is node expansion state still stored in outline?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks for the tip/reminder. Any particular reason why this is not False by
default?

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
>> I think we have talked about this several times in the past :).
>>
>> The node expansion state is stored in the .leo file, routinely causing
>> merge conflicts.
>>
>
> You can use::
>
> @bool put_expansion_bits_in_leo_files = False
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Why is node expansion state still stored in outline?

[Ville M. Vainio]

If you want to higlight something, it's better to do that with:

- Clone: make a clone and put it as first node
- Tell the UNL

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Jacob Peck  wrote:

>  On 6/12/2013 8:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
> Expansion state is mostly locally interesting infomation. The exact reason
> to move expansion state to c.db would be to avoid synchronization problems
> when same leo file is edited in different places.
>
>  I agree, for the most part.  However, what about the case of someone
> trying to highlight a particular part of the outline?  They could expand
> the node, save the file, and share it.
>
> I think that the best way to approach this is to have it be an option on a
> per-outline basis.  Perhaps a `@settings -> @bool
> save-expansion-data-to-leo-file = True` in files/myLeoSettings.leo where
> users want the expansion data saved to the file instead of the DB?
>
> -->Jake
>
>  On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Jacob Peck  wrote:
>
>>  On 6/12/2013 8:33 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>>
>>> I think we have talked about this several times in the past :).
>>>
>>> The node expansion state is stored in the .leo file, routinely causing
>>> merge conflicts.
>>>
>>> E.g.
>>>
>>> Blah blah
>>>
>>> If there is a setting to store in c.db, it should be enabled by default.
>>>
>>>
>>>   Those who work on the same .leo from many different machines would
>> have a problem with that if they don't sync their DBs... and I've learned
>> the hard way that syncing the DB with some programs (SpiderOak) while Leo
>> is running can cause data-loss crashes.
>>
>> Not an argument for or against moving to c.db, just something to note.
>> -->Jake
>>
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Re: Why is node expansion state still stored in outline?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Expansion state is mostly locally interesting infomation. The exact reason
to move expansion state to c.db would be to avoid synchronization problems
when same leo file is edited in different places.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Jacob Peck  wrote:

> On 6/12/2013 8:33 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
>
>> I think we have talked about this several times in the past :).
>>
>> The node expansion state is stored in the .leo file, routinely causing
>> merge conflicts.
>>
>> E.g.
>>
>> Blah blah
>>
>> If there is a setting to store in c.db, it should be enabled by default.
>>
>>
>>  Those who work on the same .leo from many different machines would have
> a problem with that if they don't sync their DBs... and I've learned the
> hard way that syncing the DB with some programs (SpiderOak) while Leo is
> running can cause data-loss crashes.
>
> Not an argument for or against moving to c.db, just something to note.
> -->Jake
>
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