Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
+1! On Oct 15, 2013, at 16:16, Jillian C. York jilliancy...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall j...@cdt.org wrote: On 10/11/13 9:43 AM, LilBambi wrote: I hope others may also consider making the hard decision to join EFF in leaving this group until they can be more effective. It is scary to think that faith in a group of this nature can no longer be trusted because of government meddling. Frankly, I hope the opposite (that this spurs deeper engagement between civil society and GNI members). Hi - EFFer here. I agree with Joseph. We didn't leave so that others would follow, we left because we could no longer in good faith cosign GNI statements when companies can't be honest with us. I would sincerely hope that our leaving puts the remaining NGO representatives in a better position to push the companies harder. GNI membership offers quite a few benefits for many of the international (and domestic) groups that take part, so the best outcome here would be for it to become a stronger organization than it has been. Best, Jillian -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall Senior Staff Technologist Center for Democracy Technology 1634 I ST NW STE 1100 Washington DC 20006-4011 (p) 202-407-8825 (f) 202-637-0968 j...@cdt.org PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key fingerprint: BE7E A889 7742 8773 301B 4FA1 C0E2 6D90 F257 77F8 -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Note: I am slowly extricating myself from Gmail. Please change your address books to: jilliancy...@riseup.net or jill...@eff.org. US: +1-857-891-4244 | NL: +31-657086088 site: jilliancyork.com | twitter: @jilliancyork We must not be afraid of dreaming the seemingly impossible if we want the seemingly impossible to become a reality - Vaclav Havel -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
On 10/11/13 9:43 AM, LilBambi wrote: I hope others may also consider making the hard decision to join EFF in leaving this group until they can be more effective. It is scary to think that faith in a group of this nature can no longer be trusted because of government meddling. Frankly, I hope the opposite (that this spurs deeper engagement between civil society and GNI members). -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall Senior Staff Technologist Center for Democracy Technology 1634 I ST NW STE 1100 Washington DC 20006-4011 (p) 202-407-8825 (f) 202-637-0968 j...@cdt.org PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key fingerprint: BE7E A889 7742 8773 301B 4FA1 C0E2 6D90 F257 77F8 -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall j...@cdt.org wrote: On 10/11/13 9:43 AM, LilBambi wrote: I hope others may also consider making the hard decision to join EFF in leaving this group until they can be more effective. It is scary to think that faith in a group of this nature can no longer be trusted because of government meddling. Frankly, I hope the opposite (that this spurs deeper engagement between civil society and GNI members). Hi - EFFer here. I agree with Joseph. We didn't leave so that others would follow, we left because we could no longer in good faith cosign GNI statements when companies can't be honest with us. I would sincerely hope that our leaving puts the remaining NGO representatives in a better position to push the companies harder. GNI membership offers quite a few benefits for many of the international (and domestic) groups that take part, so the best outcome here would be for it to become a stronger organization than it has been. Best, Jillian -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall Senior Staff Technologist Center for Democracy Technology 1634 I ST NW STE 1100 Washington DC 20006-4011 (p) 202-407-8825 (f) 202-637-0968 j...@cdt.org PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key fingerprint: BE7E A889 7742 8773 301B 4FA1 C0E2 6D90 F257 77F8 -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- *Note: *I am slowly extricating myself from Gmail. Please change your address books to: jilliancy...@riseup.net or jill...@eff.org. US: +1-857-891-4244 | NL: +31-657086088 site: jilliancyork.com http://jilliancyork.com/* | * twitter: @jilliancyork* * We must not be afraid of dreaming the seemingly impossible if we want the seemingly impossible to become a reality - *Vaclav Havel* -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
I am sure that was a very hard move by EFF after being part of this group for five years. Corporate members being meddled with in regard to their security practices about their internal privacy and security systems is no way to effectively run any civil society that is hopeful of keeping people safe regarding their human rights. I hope others may also consider making the hard decision to join EFF in leaving this group until they can be more effective. It is scary to think that faith in a group of this nature can no longer be trusted because of government meddling. I think this is an important move. One that highlights just some of the dangers of this meddling. From the article: We know that many within the industry do not like or approve of such government interference, and GNI has, in statements, made it clear that member companies want permission from the US government to engage in greater transparency, EFF's International Director Danny O'Brien and Director for International Freedom of Expression Jillian C. York write in aletter to GNI leadership. However, until serious reforms of the US surveillance programs are in place, we no longer feel comfortable participating in the GNI process when we are not privy to the serious compromises GNI corporate members may be forced to make. Nor do we currently believe that audits of corporate practice, no matter how independent, will uncover the insecurities produced by the US government's—and potentially other governments'—behavior when operating clandestinely in the name of national security. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Yosem Companys compa...@stanford.edu wrote: From: pressl...@eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Release For Immediate Release: Thursday, October 10, 2013 Contact: Jillian C. York Director for International Freedom of Expression Electronic Frontier Foundation jill...@eff.org +1 415 436-9333 x118 EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative Citing Concerns Over NSA’s Impact on Corporate Members, EFF Leaves Industry Group San Francisco - The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today withdrew from the Global Network Initiative (GNI), citing a fundamental breakdown in confidence that the group's corporate members are able to speak freely about their own internal privacy and security systems in the wake of the National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance revelations. EFF has been a civil society member of the multi-stakeholder human rights group since GNI was founded in 2008 to advance freedom of expression and privacy in the global information and communication technologies sector. While much has been accomplished in these five years, EFF can no longer sign its name on joint statements knowing now that GNI's corporate members have been blocked from sharing crucial information about how the US government has meddled with these companies' security practices through programs such as PRISM and BULLRUN. We know that many within the industry do not like or approve of such government interference, and GNI has, in statements, made it clear that member companies want permission from the US government to engage in greater transparency, EFF's International Director Danny O'Brien and Director for International Freedom of Expression Jillian C. York write in a letter to GNI leadership. However, until serious reforms of the US surveillance programs are in place, we no longer feel comfortable participating in the GNI process when we are not privy to the serious compromises GNI corporate members may be forced to make. Nor do we currently believe that audits of corporate practice, no matter how independent, will uncover the insecurities produced by the US government's--and potentially other governments'--behavior when operating clandestinely in the name of national security. EFF's involvement with GNI included helping to define its founding principles over two years of negotiations; coordinating opposition to the United Kingdom's Communications Data Bill in 2011; releasing a paper addressing free-speech issues surrounding account deactivation and content removal; and collaborating with fellow members in internal international technical and policy analysis. However, EFF can no longer stand behind the credibility of what had been one of GNI's most significant achievements--third-party privacy and freedom of expression assessments of service providers, including Google, Microsoft and Yahoo. Moving forward, EFF plans to continue to provide guidance to the GNI and engage companies directly, but as an external organization. EFF supports the other organizations and individuals that continue to work within the GNI for the free speech and privacy rights of users worldwide. Although EFF is taking a step back, GNI can still serve an important role as a collaborative project between human rights groups, companies, investors and academics, York said. If the United States
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
I believe it was The right thing to do, just like eating Quaker Oats. Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato, Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes a...@acm.org +1 (817) 271-9619 On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:43 AM, LilBambi lilba...@gmail.com wrote: I am sure that was a very hard move by EFF after being part of this group for five years. Corporate members being meddled with in regard to their security practices about their internal privacy and security systems is no way to effectively run any civil society that is hopeful of keeping people safe regarding their human rights. I hope others may also consider making the hard decision to join EFF in leaving this group until they can be more effective. It is scary to think that faith in a group of this nature can no longer be trusted because of government meddling. I think this is an important move. One that highlights just some of the dangers of this meddling. From the article: We know that many within the industry do not like or approve of such government interference, and GNI has, in statements, made it clear that member companies want permission from the US government to engage in greater transparency, EFF's International Director Danny O'Brien and Director for International Freedom of Expression Jillian C. York write in aletter to GNI leadership. However, until serious reforms of the US surveillance programs are in place, we no longer feel comfortable participating in the GNI process when we are not privy to the serious compromises GNI corporate members may be forced to make. Nor do we currently believe that audits of corporate practice, no matter how independent, will uncover the insecurities produced by the US government's—and potentially other governments'—behavior when operating clandestinely in the name of national security. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Yosem Companys compa...@stanford.edu wrote: From: pressl...@eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Release For Immediate Release: Thursday, October 10, 2013 Contact: Jillian C. York Director for International Freedom of Expression Electronic Frontier Foundation jill...@eff.org +1 415 436-9333 x118 EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative Citing Concerns Over NSA’s Impact on Corporate Members, EFF Leaves Industry Group San Francisco - The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today withdrew from the Global Network Initiative (GNI), citing a fundamental breakdown in confidence that the group's corporate members are able to speak freely about their own internal privacy and security systems in the wake of the National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance revelations. EFF has been a civil society member of the multi-stakeholder human rights group since GNI was founded in 2008 to advance freedom of expression and privacy in the global information and communication technologies sector. While much has been accomplished in these five years, EFF can no longer sign its name on joint statements knowing now that GNI's corporate members have been blocked from sharing crucial information about how the US government has meddled with these companies' security practices through programs such as PRISM and BULLRUN. We know that many within the industry do not like or approve of such government interference, and GNI has, in statements, made it clear that member companies want permission from the US government to engage in greater transparency, EFF's International Director Danny O'Brien and Director for International Freedom of Expression Jillian C. York write in a letter to GNI leadership. However, until serious reforms of the US surveillance programs are in place, we no longer feel comfortable participating in the GNI process when we are not privy to the serious compromises GNI corporate members may be forced to make. Nor do we currently believe that audits of corporate practice, no matter how independent, will uncover the insecurities produced by the US government's--and potentially other governments'--behavior when operating clandestinely in the name of national security. EFF's involvement with GNI included helping to define its founding principles over two years of negotiations; coordinating opposition to the United Kingdom's Communications Data Bill in 2011; releasing a paper addressing free-speech issues surrounding account deactivation and content removal; and collaborating with fellow members in internal international technical and policy analysis. However, EFF can no longer stand behind the credibility of what had been one of GNI's most significant achievements--third-party privacy and freedom of expression assessments of service providers, including Google, Microsoft and Yahoo. Moving forward, EFF plans to continue to provide guidance to the GNI and engage companies directly, but as an external organization. EFF supports the other organizations and individuals that continue to work within
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
yeah, but we have to go further, and get the United Nations HQ The Heck out of the USA http://gadebate.un.org/68/venezuela-bolivarian-republic por eso y por mucho más! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G--xIaMTSuc Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato, Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes a...@acm.org +1 (817) 271-9619 On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Yosem Companys compa...@stanford.edu wrote: From: pressl...@eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Release For Immediate Release: Thursday, October 10, 2013 Contact: Jillian C. York Director for International Freedom of Expression Electronic Frontier Foundation jill...@eff.org +1 415 436-9333 x118 EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative Citing Concerns Over NSA’s Impact on Corporate Members, EFF Leaves Industry Group San Francisco - The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today withdrew from the Global Network Initiative (GNI), citing a fundamental breakdown in confidence that the group's corporate members are able to speak freely about their own internal privacy and security systems in the wake of the National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance revelations. EFF has been a civil society member of the multi-stakeholder human rights group since GNI was founded in 2008 to advance freedom of expression and privacy in the global information and communication technologies sector. While much has been accomplished in these five years, EFF can no longer sign its name on joint statements knowing now that GNI's corporate members have been blocked from sharing crucial information about how the US government has meddled with these companies' security practices through programs such as PRISM and BULLRUN. We know that many within the industry do not like or approve of such government interference, and GNI has, in statements, made it clear that member companies want permission from the US government to engage in greater transparency, EFF's International Director Danny O'Brien and Director for International Freedom of Expression Jillian C. York write in a letter to GNI leadership. However, until serious reforms of the US surveillance programs are in place, we no longer feel comfortable participating in the GNI process when we are not privy to the serious compromises GNI corporate members may be forced to make. Nor do we currently believe that audits of corporate practice, no matter how independent, will uncover the insecurities produced by the US government's--and potentially other governments'--behavior when operating clandestinely in the name of national security. EFF's involvement with GNI included helping to define its founding principles over two years of negotiations; coordinating opposition to the United Kingdom's Communications Data Bill in 2011; releasing a paper addressing free-speech issues surrounding account deactivation and content removal; and collaborating with fellow members in internal international technical and policy analysis. However, EFF can no longer stand behind the credibility of what had been one of GNI's most significant achievements--third-party privacy and freedom of expression assessments of service providers, including Google, Microsoft and Yahoo. Moving forward, EFF plans to continue to provide guidance to the GNI and engage companies directly, but as an external organization. EFF supports the other organizations and individuals that continue to work within the GNI for the free speech and privacy rights of users worldwide. Although EFF is taking a step back, GNI can still serve an important role as a collaborative project between human rights groups, companies, investors and academics, York said. If the United States government truly supports international 'Internet freedom,' it would recognize the damage its policies are doing to weaken such efforts and the world's confidence in American companies. For the text of the letter: https://www.eff.org/document/gni-resignation-letter-0 For this release: https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-resigns-global-network-initiative About EFF The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading organization protecting civil liberties in the digital world. Founded in 1990, we defend free speech online, fight illegal surveillance, promote the rights of digital innovators, and work to ensure that the rights and freedoms we enjoy are enhanced, rather than eroded, as our use of technology grows. EFF is a member-supported organization. Find out more at https://www.eff.org. -end- -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes alps6...@gmail.com wrote: yeah, but we have to go further, and get the United Nations HQ The Heck out of the USA If you want an impotent organization to be even moreso - then that's a good move. The problem is while all this isolate the US creates a lot of feel-good it entirely ignored the complicity of most World Leaders in the same ~exact~ abuses, duplicity, etc. So it's a great distraction from actually getting things done. If you really want to punish US arrogance - make it untenable for peers to play along and really isolate the US at a policy level and not just repeated symbolic ones. (Separate of my own political beliefs - I'm speaking tactical efficacy here.) -Ali -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
Yes, of course. BUT! Look at HISTORY Why did the US become the seat of the UN? And now, for THOSE SAME REASONS The US should NOT be the SEAT of the UN Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato, Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes a...@acm.org +1 (817) 271-9619 On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie a...@packetknife.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes alps6...@gmail.com wrote: yeah, but we have to go further, and get the United Nations HQ The Heck out of the USA If you want an impotent organization to be even moreso - then that's a good move. The problem is while all this isolate the US creates a lot of feel-good it entirely ignored the complicity of most World Leaders in the same ~exact~ abuses, duplicity, etc. So it's a great distraction from actually getting things done. If you really want to punish US arrogance - make it untenable for peers to play along and really isolate the US at a policy level and not just repeated symbolic ones. (Separate of my own political beliefs - I'm speaking tactical efficacy here.) -Ali -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] EFF Resigns from Global Network Initiative
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes alps6...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, of course. BUT! *snip* Then the rest is moot - that's my point. Unless you can substantially change the behavior of the permanents seats of the UN Security Council - ~where~ the figureheads meet changes nothing about the behavior of the States, espionage, etc. Symbolic gestures are what get us ~right back where we started~ every few years. In any case - I hope we see substantive changes in the behavior of the members of the Security Council as a whole. Which isn't to say I believe the UN itself has any meaningful bearing to that. -Ali -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
