subject:"\[Libreoffice\-qa\] Bugzilla Migration\: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345"

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 I felt like I was working hard to go through appropriate channels.
 Perhaps if I'd spent more time I could've gotten more input from other
 groups, but at this point I feel like I've already spent a ton of time
 on just this one little piece.

Yeah, you did well. I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...
I have missed ESC of nov 21st (my fault), but 'the guys doing the work
should choose'
is not 'the guys doing the work should organize a beauty pageant election'
On the dev side we are not used to 'vote'. decisions are usually just
taken. When there is some controversy, the interested parties expose
the merit of their respective positions, explaining the rational for
their choice (and I mean _rational_ not _feelings_).
That usually lead to either a compromise to address each other points,
or the parties rallying around the rational of one side (we all have
'opinions' on anything when asked... but more often than not we do not
_care_ that much about a given topic, so unless we have a strong
argument to offer we usually do not demand that our opinions be
counted as strongly as the one of the people intimately involved with
the work and problems associated with it.. iow 'pick your battle
wisely'  :-) )), or more often a combination of both.
in 3 years we where driven to a vote only once.. and even then that
was more to have each position 'on the record'.

So in that light I would point out again the criteria _I_ think are
relevant for the name here:
1/ short. the summary commit message is the 1st line of a commit
message, and is limited to 80 chars (72 preferred), and when a commit
refer to a bug we want the bug reference in that message.
2/ obvious meaning and easy to remember and type, as much as possible.

The opposition I've seen so far to lo# are centered around 'it can be
confused with the abbreviation of the product'. I think that is a
feature not a bug.
in the context of bugzilla the use will always be lo#number the #
make it clear that it is a bug number and remove any ambiguity...
furtheremore these _are_ libreoffice bugs.. lo = libreoffice, # = bug
here.  So, other abbreviation may have merit, and may prevails, but
discarding lo# for that reason seems a red herring to me.

for reference a quick grep of the log message give use the following uses:

fdo#
deb#
n#n
#inn#
rhbz#nn
CID#n
cp#
bnc#
abi#
i#
#n#
lp#n

and a mix bag of some mistyped variations thereof (like #fdo)


Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-07 Thread Mat M

Le Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:31:53 +0100, Robinson Tryon  
bishop.robin...@gmail.com a écrit:



On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Mat M m...@gmx.fr wrote:
You should have cross-posted the vote announcement on all concerned  
lists,

then you'd been more votes.


What are the 'concerned lists'? i10n? projects? website?  Lots of
people interact with the bugtracker, chief among them, the QA team.


Well, I second on Norbert thoughts, and I was just saying, that, if you go  
for a vote, an announcement to the whole bunch of lists might have brought  
people in, like enlightning Norbert's views.



For me, the abbreviation is just one small part of the bigger Bugzilla
migration plan:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal

The reason we're having a vote now is because
Nov 8 - I mentioned abbreviation in the proposal
Nov 10/11 - Discussed abbrevs on the QA list
Nov 18 - QA Meeting decided to ask ESC for input
Nov 21 - ESC offered suggestions; said the guys doing the work should  
choose.

Nov 21 - Looked for consensus on QA list
Dec 1 - Saw no consensus; Moving to vote on the QA list

I felt like I was working hard to go through appropriate channels.
Perhaps if I'd spent more time I could've gotten more input from other
groups, but at this point I feel like I've already spent a ton of time
on just this one little piece.


You worked hard, and that was appreciated, don't misunderstand me. But if  
you don't find a consensus on the QA list, you might ask for wider  
audience, so my remark. Not a critic in any way.

You did your best and we ackowledge that.
FWIW, I also appreciate all the bug metrics and follow-up QA provides, it  
is very nice and useful.



Well, if you want to mimic fdo, abbrev should be loo (libreoffice.org
instead of freedesktop.org)
loo is a good trade-off : more than 2, but less than 4; different of the
standard lo we use to shortcut LibreOffice


IIRC, in en-GB 'loo' == toilet
Well, I didn't check and that was more of a friday's troll than a real  
proposal.



(not that there aren't any piss-poor bug reports in FDO right now...)

;-)



BTW, I vote also for lo#


ok -- vote recorded.


If the devs really want lo#, just send in enough people to vote and
the outcome will be certain.

--R

brace yourselves, lo# is coming

Mat

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-07 Thread Robinson Tryon

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Robinson Tryon
 bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 I felt like I was working hard to go through appropriate channels...

 Yeah, you did well. I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...
 I have missed ESC of nov 21st (my fault), but 'the guys doing the work
 should choose'
 is not 'the guys doing the work should organize a beauty pageant election'

IMHO 'the guys doing the work should choose' means 'we're going to
leave it up to the best judgment of those people to decide'.

I thought that we had a bunch of okay abbreviations, and aside from
tdf# (which I wanted to reserve for future use), all of the other
names seemed good enough to me, and didn't raise any red flags when I
checked-in with the ESC.

So, with that information in hand, I figured that I would ask for
input from QA, first in the form of searching for consensus, and
second (if need be) as a voting process. QA doesn't get to make
decisions like this very often, so I thought it would be something fun
for us to decide as a team.

Alternatively, if we want to interpret this message as ' *only* the
guys doing the work should choose', then that's fine with me, too. By
my reckoning, that list includes

- Cloph (for fixing bots and websites, creating DNS redirects, and
generally putting up with all of my requests)
- Dennis Roczek (for a bunch of detailed bot work translating urls on the wiki)
- Andras Timar (for updating urls in the translations and core git repos)
- Tollef (Doing all of the work on the FDO end)
- Me (for doing a lot of legwork on the migration)
- Some others I've undoubtedly forgotten

 On the dev side we are not used to 'vote'. decisions are usually just
 taken. When there is some controversy, the interested parties expose
 the merit of their respective positions, explaining the rational for
 their choice (and I mean _rational_ not _feelings_).

ok

 That usually lead to either a compromise to address each other points,
 or the parties rallying around the rational of one side (we all have
 'opinions' on anything when asked... but more often than not we do not
 _care_ that much about a given topic, so unless we have a strong
 argument to offer we usually do not demand that our opinions be
 counted as strongly as the one of the people intimately involved with
 the work and problems associated with it.. iow 'pick your battle
 wisely'  :-) )), or more often a combination of both.
 in 3 years we where driven to a vote only once.. and even then that
 was more to have each position 'on the record'.

ok

 So in that light I would point out again the criteria _I_ think are
 relevant for the name here:

 1/ short. the summary commit message is the 1st line of a commit
 message, and is limited to 80 chars (72 preferred), and when a commit
 refer to a bug we want the bug reference in that message.
 2/ obvious meaning and easy to remember and type, as much as possible.

 The opposition I've seen so far to lo# are centered around 'it can be
 confused with the abbreviation of the product'. I think that is a
 feature not a bug.
 in the context of bugzilla the use will always be lo#number the #
 make it clear that it is a bug number and remove any ambiguity...
 furtheremore these _are_ libreoffice bugs.. lo = libreoffice, # = bug
 here.  So, other abbreviation may have merit, and may prevails, but
 discarding lo# for that reason seems a red herring to me.

 for reference a quick grep of the log message give use the following uses:

 fdo#
 deb#
 n#n
 #inn#
 rhbz#nn
 CID#n
 cp#
 bnc#
 abi#
 i#
 #n#
 lp#n

 and a mix bag of some mistyped variations thereof (like #fdo)

Up at the top of your email you said:
I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...

...but the length and breadth of your email belies that
characterization of this particular decision about abbreviations. This
is clearly not a bikeshed decision, or you and Mat would (hopefully)
not be so invested in what abbreviation is chosen.

If it's a big deal, then yes, I agree we should pay more attention to
it. If it's not a big deal, then we go ahead and pick from the list. I
just need to get a clear message, one way or the other.

I'm sympathetic to input from the developers, even at a late stage in
this process, which is precisely why I listened to Eike's comments and
wrote The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
messages).

Cheers,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 Up at the top of your email you said:
 I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...

 ...but the length and breadth of your email belies that
 characterization of this particular decision about abbreviations. This
 is clearly not a bikeshed decision, or you and Mat would (hopefully)
 not be so invested in what abbreviation is chosen.

A bikeshed is when we have very long discusion about something due to
the fact that it is a 'simple' problem, hence everyone feel is his
qualified to give some input...
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality
And yes, I'm guilty of it here... so I'll leave it be for now... if we
end up with xkcd# or lobz# I'll be annoyed, but I'll get over it :-D

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 I felt like I was working hard to go through appropriate channels.
 Perhaps if I'd spent more time I could've gotten more input from other
 groups, but at this point I feel like I've already spent a ton of time
 on just this one little piece.

Yeah, you did well. I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...
I have missed ESC of nov 21st (my fault), but 'the guys doing the work
should choose'
is not 'the guys doing the work should organize a beauty pageant election'
On the dev side we are not used to 'vote'. decisions are usually just
taken. When there is some controversy, the interested parties expose
the merit of their respective positions, explaining the rational for
their choice (and I mean _rational_ not _feelings_).
That usually lead to either a compromise to address each other points,
or the parties rallying around the rational of one side (we all have
'opinions' on anything when asked... but more often than not we do not
_care_ that much about a given topic, so unless we have a strong
argument to offer we usually do not demand that our opinions be
counted as strongly as the one of the people intimately involved with
the work and problems associated with it.. iow 'pick your battle
wisely'  :-) )), or more often a combination of both.
in 3 years we where driven to a vote only once.. and even then that
was more to have each position 'on the record'.

So in that light I would point out again the criteria _I_ think are
relevant for the name here:
1/ short. the summary commit message is the 1st line of a commit
message, and is limited to 80 chars (72 preferred), and when a commit
refer to a bug we want the bug reference in that message.
2/ obvious meaning and easy to remember and type, as much as possible.

The opposition I've seen so far to lo# are centered around 'it can be
confused with the abbreviation of the product'. I think that is a
feature not a bug.
in the context of bugzilla the use will always be lo#number the #
make it clear that it is a bug number and remove any ambiguity...
furtheremore these _are_ libreoffice bugs.. lo = libreoffice, # = bug
here.  So, other abbreviation may have merit, and may prevails, but
discarding lo# for that reason seems a red herring to me.

for reference a quick grep of the log message give use the following uses:

fdo#
deb#
n#n
#inn#
rhbz#nn
CID#n
cp#
bnc#
abi#
i#
#n#
lp#n

and a mix bag of some mistyped variations thereof (like #fdo)


Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-07 Thread Mat M

Le Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:31:53 +0100, Robinson Tryon  
bishop.robin...@gmail.com a écrit:



On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Mat M m...@gmx.fr wrote:
You should have cross-posted the vote announcement on all concerned  
lists,

then you'd been more votes.


What are the 'concerned lists'? i10n? projects? website?  Lots of
people interact with the bugtracker, chief among them, the QA team.


Well, I second on Norbert thoughts, and I was just saying, that, if you go  
for a vote, an announcement to the whole bunch of lists might have brought  
people in, like enlightning Norbert's views.



For me, the abbreviation is just one small part of the bigger Bugzilla
migration plan:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal

The reason we're having a vote now is because
Nov 8 - I mentioned abbreviation in the proposal
Nov 10/11 - Discussed abbrevs on the QA list
Nov 18 - QA Meeting decided to ask ESC for input
Nov 21 - ESC offered suggestions; said the guys doing the work should  
choose.

Nov 21 - Looked for consensus on QA list
Dec 1 - Saw no consensus; Moving to vote on the QA list

I felt like I was working hard to go through appropriate channels.
Perhaps if I'd spent more time I could've gotten more input from other
groups, but at this point I feel like I've already spent a ton of time
on just this one little piece.


You worked hard, and that was appreciated, don't misunderstand me. But if  
you don't find a consensus on the QA list, you might ask for wider  
audience, so my remark. Not a critic in any way.

You did your best and we ackowledge that.
FWIW, I also appreciate all the bug metrics and follow-up QA provides, it  
is very nice and useful.



Well, if you want to mimic fdo, abbrev should be loo (libreoffice.org
instead of freedesktop.org)
loo is a good trade-off : more than 2, but less than 4; different of the
standard lo we use to shortcut LibreOffice


IIRC, in en-GB 'loo' == toilet
Well, I didn't check and that was more of a friday's troll than a real  
proposal.



(not that there aren't any piss-poor bug reports in FDO right now...)

;-)



BTW, I vote also for lo#


ok -- vote recorded.


If the devs really want lo#, just send in enough people to vote and
the outcome will be certain.

--R

brace yourselves, lo# is coming

Mat

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-07 Thread mariosv

Hi Rob and All,

it is not easy understand what is happening.

We are voting after a right process to do it.
As Robinson wrote:

The reason we're having a vote now is because
Nov 8 - I mentioned abbreviation in the proposal
Nov 10/11 - Discussed abbrevs on the QA list
Nov 18 - QA Meeting decided to ask ESC for input
Nov 21 - ESC offered suggestions; said the guys doing the work should
choose.
Nov 21 - Looked for consensus on QA list
Dec 1 - Saw no consensus; Moving to vote on the QA list 

I think everyone in the project can vote here if they want.

IMHO, we need to finish the voting process, and communicate the results.

If some in the project are not agree, it's fine, they can report to the ESC
their reflections and inform their proposal.

In last term The Board can take a decision about what better fits for all in
the project.

Miguel Ángel.



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-07 Thread Robinson Tryon

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Robinson Tryon
 bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 I felt like I was working hard to go through appropriate channels...

 Yeah, you did well. I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...
 I have missed ESC of nov 21st (my fault), but 'the guys doing the work
 should choose'
 is not 'the guys doing the work should organize a beauty pageant election'

IMHO 'the guys doing the work should choose' means 'we're going to
leave it up to the best judgment of those people to decide'.

I thought that we had a bunch of okay abbreviations, and aside from
tdf# (which I wanted to reserve for future use), all of the other
names seemed good enough to me, and didn't raise any red flags when I
checked-in with the ESC.

So, with that information in hand, I figured that I would ask for
input from QA, first in the form of searching for consensus, and
second (if need be) as a voting process. QA doesn't get to make
decisions like this very often, so I thought it would be something fun
for us to decide as a team.

Alternatively, if we want to interpret this message as ' *only* the
guys doing the work should choose', then that's fine with me, too. By
my reckoning, that list includes

- Cloph (for fixing bots and websites, creating DNS redirects, and
generally putting up with all of my requests)
- Dennis Roczek (for a bunch of detailed bot work translating urls on the wiki)
- Andras Timar (for updating urls in the translations and core git repos)
- Tollef (Doing all of the work on the FDO end)
- Me (for doing a lot of legwork on the migration)
- Some others I've undoubtedly forgotten

 On the dev side we are not used to 'vote'. decisions are usually just
 taken. When there is some controversy, the interested parties expose
 the merit of their respective positions, explaining the rational for
 their choice (and I mean _rational_ not _feelings_).

ok

 That usually lead to either a compromise to address each other points,
 or the parties rallying around the rational of one side (we all have
 'opinions' on anything when asked... but more often than not we do not
 _care_ that much about a given topic, so unless we have a strong
 argument to offer we usually do not demand that our opinions be
 counted as strongly as the one of the people intimately involved with
 the work and problems associated with it.. iow 'pick your battle
 wisely'  :-) )), or more often a combination of both.
 in 3 years we where driven to a vote only once.. and even then that
 was more to have each position 'on the record'.

ok

 So in that light I would point out again the criteria _I_ think are
 relevant for the name here:

 1/ short. the summary commit message is the 1st line of a commit
 message, and is limited to 80 chars (72 preferred), and when a commit
 refer to a bug we want the bug reference in that message.
 2/ obvious meaning and easy to remember and type, as much as possible.

 The opposition I've seen so far to lo# are centered around 'it can be
 confused with the abbreviation of the product'. I think that is a
 feature not a bug.
 in the context of bugzilla the use will always be lo#number the #
 make it clear that it is a bug number and remove any ambiguity...
 furtheremore these _are_ libreoffice bugs.. lo = libreoffice, # = bug
 here.  So, other abbreviation may have merit, and may prevails, but
 discarding lo# for that reason seems a red herring to me.

 for reference a quick grep of the log message give use the following uses:

 fdo#
 deb#
 n#n
 #inn#
 rhbz#nn
 CID#n
 cp#
 bnc#
 abi#
 i#
 #n#
 lp#n

 and a mix bag of some mistyped variations thereof (like #fdo)

Up at the top of your email you said:
I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...

...but the length and breadth of your email belies that
characterization of this particular decision about abbreviations. This
is clearly not a bikeshed decision, or you and Mat would (hopefully)
not be so invested in what abbreviation is chosen.

If it's a big deal, then yes, I agree we should pay more attention to
it. If it's not a big deal, then we go ahead and pick from the list. I
just need to get a clear message, one way or the other.

I'm sympathetic to input from the developers, even at a late stage in
this process, which is precisely why I listened to Eike's comments and
wrote The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
messages).

Cheers,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 Up at the top of your email you said:
 I'm sorry I apparently started a bikeshed on this...

 ...but the length and breadth of your email belies that
 characterization of this particular decision about abbreviations. This
 is clearly not a bikeshed decision, or you and Mat would (hopefully)
 not be so invested in what abbreviation is chosen.

A bikeshed is when we have very long discusion about something due to
the fact that it is a 'simple' problem, hence everyone feel is his
qualified to give some input...
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality
And yes, I'm guilty of it here... so I'll leave it be for now... if we
end up with xkcd# or lobz# I'll be annoyed, but I'll get over it :-D

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-06 Thread Mat M


Hello Robinson, *

Le Fri, 06 Dec 2013 07:54:07 +0100, Robinson Tryon  
bishop.robin...@gmail.com a écrit:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com  
wrote:

but by a wide margin the only 4-char abbreviation in the
list has taken an early lead.

Sure, but if you were to ask that question on the dev-ml rather than
here.. I'd bet you you'd get many more vote for lo#


true.

I'd always like to have more devs listening-in on what we talk about
on the QA list...
;-)


You should have cross-posted the vote announcement on all concerned lists,  
then you'd been more votes.



PS: btw I don't see the appeal to want to stick characters in there to
re-inforce the idea that it is a bugzilla number... the # in it is
sufficient enough to make that clear
so the b/bz stuff is not only a waste of space.. but also completely
redundant. it is like climbing up or descending down...


Fair, fair. One other thing:
The abbreviation has a secondary purpose: to be used as shorthand for
the bugtracker. Using our two highest-profile options:
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LO
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LOBZ



Well, if you want to mimic fdo, abbrev should be loo (libreoffice.org  
instead of freedesktop.org)
loo is a good trade-off : more than 2, but less than 4; different of the  
standard lo we use to shortcut LibreOffice


BTW, I vote also for lo# if loo# has no access to the vote list ;)

Mat
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-06 Thread Robinson Tryon

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Mat M m...@gmx.fr wrote:
 You should have cross-posted the vote announcement on all concerned lists,
 then you'd been more votes.

What are the 'concerned lists'? i10n? projects? website?  Lots of
people interact with the bugtracker, chief among them, the QA team.

For me, the abbreviation is just one small part of the bigger Bugzilla
migration plan:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal

The reason we're having a vote now is because
Nov 8 - I mentioned abbreviation in the proposal
Nov 10/11 - Discussed abbrevs on the QA list
Nov 18 - QA Meeting decided to ask ESC for input
Nov 21 - ESC offered suggestions; said the guys doing the work should choose.
Nov 21 - Looked for consensus on QA list
Dec 1 - Saw no consensus; Moving to vote on the QA list

I felt like I was working hard to go through appropriate channels.
Perhaps if I'd spent more time I could've gotten more input from other
groups, but at this point I feel like I've already spent a ton of time
on just this one little piece.

 Well, if you want to mimic fdo, abbrev should be loo (libreoffice.org
 instead of freedesktop.org)
 loo is a good trade-off : more than 2, but less than 4; different of the
 standard lo we use to shortcut LibreOffice

IIRC, in en-GB 'loo' == toilet

(not that there aren't any piss-poor bug reports in FDO right now...)

 if loo# has no access to the vote list ;)

Given that I already outlined the parameters for voting, I'm not sure
it'd be appropriate for me to change them now.


 BTW, I vote also for lo#

ok -- vote recorded.


If the devs really want lo#, just send in enough people to vote and
the outcome will be certain.

--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-06 Thread Mat M


Hello Robinson, *

Le Fri, 06 Dec 2013 07:54:07 +0100, Robinson Tryon  
bishop.robin...@gmail.com a écrit:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com  
wrote:

but by a wide margin the only 4-char abbreviation in the
list has taken an early lead.

Sure, but if you were to ask that question on the dev-ml rather than
here.. I'd bet you you'd get many more vote for lo#


true.

I'd always like to have more devs listening-in on what we talk about
on the QA list...
;-)


You should have cross-posted the vote announcement on all concerned lists,  
then you'd been more votes.



PS: btw I don't see the appeal to want to stick characters in there to
re-inforce the idea that it is a bugzilla number... the # in it is
sufficient enough to make that clear
so the b/bz stuff is not only a waste of space.. but also completely
redundant. it is like climbing up or descending down...


Fair, fair. One other thing:
The abbreviation has a secondary purpose: to be used as shorthand for
the bugtracker. Using our two highest-profile options:
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LO
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LOBZ



Well, if you want to mimic fdo, abbrev should be loo (libreoffice.org  
instead of freedesktop.org)
loo is a good trade-off : more than 2, but less than 4; different of the  
standard lo we use to shortcut LibreOffice


BTW, I vote also for lo# if loo# has no access to the vote list ;)

Mat
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Eike Rathke er...@redhat.com wrote:

  * lo
 1st rank. YES!
...
  * lobz
 No, too long. Lobster, anyone?

 From my view of a developer who has to type and squeeze these into the
 alreay short enough commit summary line.

 Hi all -- thank you for voting! For those of you who haven't yet
 voted...do it! We'll close the voting process at the next QA call.

 Here's a quick summary of how the votes have been cast so far:
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal#We.27re_now_voting.21.21.21

 The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
 messages),

Yeah, and it is the dev that have to type it a lot, no ?

but by a wide margin the only 4-char abbreviation in the
 list has taken an early lead.
Sure, but if you were to ask that question on the dev-ml rather than
here.. I'd bet you you'd get many more vote for lo#

Norbert

PS: btw I don't see the appeal to want to stick characters in there to
re-inforce the idea that it is a bugzilla number... the # in it is
sufficient enough to make that clear
so the b/bz stuff is not only a waste of space.. but also completely
redundant. it is like climbing up or descending down...
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:

 The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
 messages),

 Yeah, and it is the dev that have to type it a lot, no ?

Sure -- and people on the Ask site, and QA people in FDO...err
insert abbreviation here, etc..

but by a wide margin the only 4-char abbreviation in the
 list has taken an early lead.
 Sure, but if you were to ask that question on the dev-ml rather than
 here.. I'd bet you you'd get many more vote for lo#

true.

I'd always like to have more devs listening-in on what we talk about
on the QA list...
;-)


 Norbert

 PS: btw I don't see the appeal to want to stick characters in there to
 re-inforce the idea that it is a bugzilla number... the # in it is
 sufficient enough to make that clear
 so the b/bz stuff is not only a waste of space.. but also completely
 redundant. it is like climbing up or descending down...

Fair, fair. One other thing:
The abbreviation has a secondary purpose: to be used as shorthand for
the bugtracker. Using our two highest-profile options:
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LO
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LOBZ

--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:

 The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
 messages),

 Yeah, and it is the dev that have to type it a lot, no ?

 Sure -- and people on the Ask site, and QA people in FDO...err
 insert abbreviation here, etc..

sure but the dev need to use the canonical abbreviation because we
have bot that use them to detect association between commit and bugs
that is not the case on Ask for instance

 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LO
 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LOBZ

How many place could one possibly be looking for 'regression' ... what
confusing meaning lo could have in this context... beside you could
use libreoffice bugzilla or 'salt mines' in that context it would not
matter much... it is human to human interractions... the issue is that
dev have to put stuff in their commit message to talk to Bot
so one cannot be as creative there :-)

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:
 sure but the dev need to use the canonical abbreviation because we
 have bot that use them to detect association between commit and bugs
 that is not the case on Ask for instance

technically speaking, the bot could recognize lo# as well as lobz#,
but I am strongly of the opinion that we should have just one
abbreviation! :-)


 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LO
 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LOBZ

 How many place could one possibly be looking for 'regression' ... what
 confusing meaning lo could have in this context... beside you could
 use libreoffice bugzilla or 'salt mines' in that context it would not
 matter much

I think I'll start using 'salt mines' as a euphemism from now on...

... it is human to human interractions... the issue is that
 dev have to put stuff in their commit message to talk to Bot
 so one cannot be as creative there :-)

true, the bots are kind of annoying in that regard :-)

--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:
 sure but the dev need to use the canonical abbreviation because we
 have bot that use them to detect association between commit and bugs
 that is not the case on Ask for instance

 technically speaking, the bot could recognize lo# as well as lobz#,
 but I am strongly of the opinion that we should have just one
 abbreviation! :-)

Agreed.. no argument there :-)


 I think I'll start using 'salt mines' as a euphemism from now on...

:-D , I thought you'd like it :-)

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Eike Rathke er...@redhat.com wrote:

  * lo
 1st rank. YES!
...
  * lobz
 No, too long. Lobster, anyone?

 From my view of a developer who has to type and squeeze these into the
 alreay short enough commit summary line.

Hi all -- thank you for voting! For those of you who haven't yet
voted...do it! We'll close the voting process at the next QA call.

Here's a quick summary of how the votes have been cast so far:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal#We.27re_now_voting.21.21.21

The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
messages), but by a wide margin the only 4-char abbreviation in the
list has taken an early lead.

--R,
thinking that LObster might not be the worst idea for our mascot :-)
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Eike Rathke er...@redhat.com wrote:

* lo
1st rank. YES!
...
* lobz
No, too long. Lobster, anyone?

From my view of a developer who has to type and squeeze these into the
alreay short enough commit summary line.

Hi all -- thank you for voting! For those of you who haven't yet
voted...do it! We'll close the voting process at the next QA call.

Here's a quick summary of how the votes have been cast so far:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal#We.27re_now_voting.21.21.21

The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
messages),

Yeah, and it is the dev that have to type it a lot, no ?

but by a wide margin the only 4-char abbreviation in the
list has taken an early lead.
Sure, but if you were to ask that question on the dev-ml rather than
here.. I'd bet you you'd get many more vote for lo#

Norbert

PS: btw I don't see the appeal to want to stick characters in there to
re-inforce the idea that it is a bugzilla number... the # in it is
sufficient enough to make that clear
so the b/bz stuff is not only a waste of space.. but also completely
redundant. it is like climbing up or descending down...
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:

 The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
 messages),

 Yeah, and it is the dev that have to type it a lot, no ?

Sure -- and people on the Ask site, and QA people in FDO...err
insert abbreviation here, etc..

but by a wide margin the only 4-char abbreviation in the
 list has taken an early lead.
 Sure, but if you were to ask that question on the dev-ml rather than
 here.. I'd bet you you'd get many more vote for lo#

true.

I'd always like to have more devs listening-in on what we talk about
on the QA list...
;-)


 Norbert

 PS: btw I don't see the appeal to want to stick characters in there to
 re-inforce the idea that it is a bugzilla number... the # in it is
 sufficient enough to make that clear
 so the b/bz stuff is not only a waste of space.. but also completely
 redundant. it is like climbing up or descending down...

Fair, fair. One other thing:
The abbreviation has a secondary purpose: to be used as shorthand for
the bugtracker. Using our two highest-profile options:
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LO
Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
at regressions on LOBZ

--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:

 The devs really like lo# (as it gives them more room in commit
 messages),

 Yeah, and it is the dev that have to type it a lot, no ?

 Sure -- and people on the Ask site, and QA people in FDO...err
 insert abbreviation here, etc..

sure but the dev need to use the canonical abbreviation because we
have bot that use them to detect association between commit and bugs
that is not the case on Ask for instance

 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LO
 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LOBZ

How many place could one possibly be looking for 'regression' ... what
confusing meaning lo could have in this context... beside you could
use libreoffice bugzilla or 'salt mines' in that context it would not
matter much... it is human to human interractions... the issue is that
dev have to put stuff in their commit message to talk to Bot
so one cannot be as creative there :-)

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:
 sure but the dev need to use the canonical abbreviation because we
 have bot that use them to detect association between commit and bugs
 that is not the case on Ask for instance

technically speaking, the bot could recognize lo# as well as lobz#,
but I am strongly of the opinion that we should have just one
abbreviation! :-)


 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LO
 Joel, go take a look at regressions on FDO = Joel, go take a look
 at regressions on LOBZ

 How many place could one possibly be looking for 'regression' ... what
 confusing meaning lo could have in this context... beside you could
 use libreoffice bugzilla or 'salt mines' in that context it would not
 matter much

I think I'll start using 'salt mines' as a euphemism from now on...

... it is human to human interractions... the issue is that
 dev have to put stuff in their commit message to talk to Bot
 so one cannot be as creative there :-)

true, the bots are kind of annoying in that regard :-)

--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote:
 sure but the dev need to use the canonical abbreviation because we
 have bot that use them to detect association between commit and bugs
 that is not the case on Ask for instance

 technically speaking, the bot could recognize lo# as well as lobz#,
 but I am strongly of the opinion that we should have just one
 abbreviation! :-)

Agreed.. no argument there :-)


 I think I'll start using 'salt mines' as a euphemism from now on...

:-D , I thought you'd like it :-)

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-02 Thread Norbert Thiebaud

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:12 AM, bjoern bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 06:51:55PM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
 The nice thing with putting everything under a LibreOffice
 bugtracker for now is that if in the future we do decide to migrate
 bugtracking for TDF-specific web infra to a separate instance, that's
 going to be a much smaller and simpler piece.

 This was what I was thinking of, yep.

I think that should not be 'in the future'. from the start the
libreoffice bugzilla should be libreoffice centric.
tdf-infra has it's own ways and likely will have way different
workflow than lo wrt the handling of these..
and yes, tdf is likely to one day have other product under its
umbrella, so not repeating the fdo situation, just somewhere else...
would be wise.

With the expeirence of setting a large bugzilla up likewe need... it
should not be that hard to creat a separate instance for infra...and
in the future a separate instance for other project that may come
along


Norbert

Note: that is why using lo/libo prefix is not only not an issue but in
fact desirable to associate strongly the bugzilla instance with the
product it tracks...
and as bjoern said.. the prefix is really lo#  and every instance
would be lo# that cannot be confuse with the porduct itself
anymore that fdo#nnn can be confused with fdo the org.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-02 Thread bjoern

On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 07:09:06AM -0600, Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
 With the expeirence of setting a large bugzilla up likewe need... it
 should not be that hard to creat a separate instance for infra...and
 in the future a separate instance for other project that may come
 along

Im pretty certain infra wont go with bugzilla though -- currently their
favourite is RedMine. But yeah, the original point made still stands mixing
LibreOffice the product with other issue tracking in the project is likely
unhelpful.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-02 Thread Norbert Thiebaud

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:21 AM, bjoern bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote:
 On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 07:09:06AM -0600, Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
 With the expeirence of setting a large bugzilla up likewe need... it
 should not be that hard to creat a separate instance for infra...and
 in the future a separate instance for other project that may come
 along

 Im pretty certain infra wont go with bugzilla though -- currently their
 favourite is RedMine.

Yeah, they are notorious for settling on obscure, never heard of (and
never heard of again :-) ) tools, like OTRS, sphynx, etc... :-D

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-02 Thread Robinson Tryon

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:21 AM, bjoern bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote:
 On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 07:09:06AM -0600, Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
 With the expeirence of setting a large bugzilla up likewe need... it
 should not be that hard to creat a separate instance for infra...and
 in the future a separate instance for other project that may come
 along

 Im pretty certain infra wont go with bugzilla though -- currently their
 favourite is RedMine. But yeah, the original point made still stands mixing
 LibreOffice the product with other issue tracking in the project is likely
 unhelpful.

Until someone in infra tells me otherwise, I'm going to assume that
all of the bugs and bugtracking categories covered under the
'LibreOffice' product on FDO will migrate to the new Bugzilla instance
being set up by Tollef. I'm quite supportive of carving-off all of our
non-LibreOffice-specific bugs and shoving them into a separate
bugtracker, but my thinking here is to focus on one step at a time.

--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-02 Thread bjoern

On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 08:45:33AM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
 Until someone in infra tells me otherwise, I'm going to assume that
 all of the bugs and bugtracking categories covered under the
 'LibreOffice' product on FDO will migrate to the new Bugzilla instance
 being set up by Tollef. I'm quite supportive of carving-off all of our
 non-LibreOffice-specific bugs and shoving them into a separate
 bugtracker, but my thinking here is to focus on one step at a time.

Yup.

Listen, I'm a politician which means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not
kissing babies I'm stealing their lollipops. But it also means I keep my
options open.
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-02 Thread Tommy

On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 19:31:47 +0100, Robinson Tryon  
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:





Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo
* lbz
* libo
* lo
* lob
* lobz


Thanks,
--R
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my two votes go to:
lob
lobz

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-01 Thread Robinson Tryon

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
 ...
 If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.

Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P

Voting Rules:
* Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting)
* Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use
* If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off

 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo
 * lbz
 * libo
 * lo
 * lob
 * lobz

Thanks,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-01 Thread Florian Reisinger

Hi,

I am voting for libo only ;)

Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
Florian Reisinger

 Am 01.12.2013 um 19:31 schrieb Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com:
 
 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
 bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
 ...
 If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.
 
 Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P
 
 Voting Rules:
 * Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting)
 * Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use
 * If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off
 
 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo
 * lbz
 * libo
 * lo
 * lob
 * lobz
 
 Thanks,
 --R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-01 Thread Thomas Hackert

Hello Robinson, *,
On Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2013 19:31 Robinson Tryon wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
 bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:
[new abbreviation for bugs.libreoffice.org]
 Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P
 
 Voting Rules:
 * Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like
 (Approval Voting) * Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for
 future use * If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off
 
 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo

+1

Have a nice evening
Thomas.

-- 
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posture, an intransigent mind, and a step that travels unlimited 
roads.
-- John Galt, in Ayn Rand's _Atlas Shrugged_

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-01 Thread V Stuart Foote

Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 12:31 PM

Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P

Voting Rules:
* Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting)
* Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use
* If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off

 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo -- No
* lbz -- Yes
* libo -- No
* lo -- No
* lob -- No
* lobz  -- Yes

Stuart
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-01 Thread Joren DC

Robinson Tryon schreef op 1/12/13 19:31:
 Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P Voting Rules: * Please
 vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting) *
 Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use * If there's no
 clear winner, we can have a run-off
 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo
No
 * lbz
Yes
 * libo
Yes
 * lo
No
 * lob
Yes
 * lobz
Yes

If I only can make 1 vote: libo

Kind regards,
Joren
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-01 Thread Jochen Schiffers


Hi Rob,

Am 01.12.2013 19:31, schrieb Robinson Tryon:
Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P Voting Rules: * Please 
vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting) * 
Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use * If there's no 
clear winner, we can have a run-off

I am voting for libo

Regards

Jochen
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-12-01 Thread Samuel Mehrbrodt


I like libo# and lobz#

Am 01.12.2013 19:31, schrieb Robinson Tryon:

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all,

Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
...
If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.

Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P

Voting Rules:
* Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting)
* Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use
* If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off


Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo
* lbz
* libo
* lo
* lob
* lobz

Thanks,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-23 Thread mariosv

+1 lobz, I think no confusions.

Miguel Ángel.



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-23 Thread Tommy

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 19:52:27 +0100, Robinson Tryon  
bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote:



Hi all,

Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)

...

Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo
please, avoid. I don't wanna be exposed to unpolite jokes about QA is  
doing blo job



* lbz

no. phonetically unfriendly.


* libo

no. abbreviation is already used to describe the software


* lo

no. it makes me think about J-Lo :-)


* lob

yes. easy to understand even for newbies: LOB#1234 = LibreOfficeBug#1234


* lobz

yes. same as before: LOBZ#1234 = LibreOfficeBugZilla#1234


* tdf

no. tdf is another thing.



so basically my first pick is lob and my second pick is lobz

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-22 Thread Thomas Hackert

Hello Jean-Baptiste, *,
On Donnerstag, 21. November 2013 22:02 Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
 Le 21/11/2013 19:52, Robinson Tryon a écrit :
 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo
 why not but not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good
 idea, risk of error with 0

I would prefer blo, as it is the short form for 
bugs.libreoffice.org ... ;) Maybe we could use b.l.o to circumvent 
the phonetical similarity to the English word blow ... ;)

 * lbz
 OK

To me, it sounds like a a name of a GNU/Linux package, -1

 * libo
 No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

+1

 * lo
 No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

+1

 * lob
 Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of
 error with 0

-1. The word Lob in German means something like kudos or 
praise. And there is a term in tennis, which is called lob as 
well ... :(

 * lobz
 Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of
 error with 0

0 ... I have not a clear opinion here, sorry ... :(

 * tdf
 No, tdf =/= LibreOffice

Yes, I think tdf is not that ideal. If TDF may take other projects 
under its wings, then it could lead to some kind of confusion ...
HTH
Thomas.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-22 Thread Rob Snelders


Hi,

My opinion:


Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo

no. The relation with the english word 'blow' is to big.


* lbz

Fine by me


* libo
* lo

no. I don't think that a abbrivation of the product is going to work


* lob
* lobz

Fine by me


* tdf
Here is the discussion about if we need to have 
bugs.documentfoundation.org. I don't think you want that because tdf can 
have other products. Only if you want this bugzilla only for libo then 
where will the bugs for the websites of tdf go? Will they stay at 
freedesktop or go to the libo-bugzilla? As you follow this rule they 
should go to somewhere else as the libo-bugzilla.


Greetings,
Rob Snelders



Cheers,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-22 Thread bjoern

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 06:51:55PM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
 The nice thing with putting everything under a LibreOffice
 bugtracker for now is that if in the future we do decide to migrate
 bugtracking for TDF-specific web infra to a separate instance, that's
 going to be a much smaller and simpler piece.

This was what I was thinking of, yep.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-21 Thread V Stuart Foote

Vote:

 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo -- NO
 * lbz -- YES, but only as alternative to tdf
 * libo -- NO
 * lo -- NO
 * lob -- NO
 * lobz -- NO
 * tdf -- YES, of course LibreOffice is not The Document Foundation, but TDF 
 is LibreOffice's home
   and the Foundations objective to nurture and develop office 
software that is free to use by everyone
   would be well represented by an association to a tdf#12345  
Bugzilla tracker.  The freedesktop.org--fdo--
   infrastructure support has served us well, and a tdf# 
notation for our own infrastructure would  be correct.

Stuart

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 4:59 PM, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote:
 * tdf -- YES, of course LibreOffice is not The Document Foundation, but TDF 
 is LibreOffice's home
and the Foundations objective to nurture and develop 
 office software that is free to use by everyone
would be well represented by an association to a tdf#12345 
  Bugzilla tracker.  The freedesktop.org--fdo--
infrastructure support has served us well, and a tdf# 
 notation for our own infrastructure would  be correct.


If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org

Thoughts??

--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-21 Thread bjoern

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 06:02:02PM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
 If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org

A big part of this exercise is to not have LibreOffice bug mixed with others
anymore. As such documentfoundation just seems wrong to me as tdf might have
other projects and if those use our bugzilla they will be guests on the
LibreOffice bugzilla because of the volume. We already essentially took over
fdo by volume, so lets keep this one dedicated to LO and LO only.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:02:32PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
  * libo
 No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself
 
  * lo
 No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

It will never be used standalone and lo#12345 isnt going to be confused.

  * lob
 Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
 with 0
 
  * lobz
 Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
 with 0

see above, no such issue as there is lo# as with all bug refs.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 6:38 PM, bjoern bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote:
 Hi,

 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 06:02:02PM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
 If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org

 A big part of this exercise is to not have LibreOffice bug mixed with others
 anymore. As such documentfoundation just seems wrong to me as tdf might have
 other projects and if those use our bugzilla they will be guests on the
 LibreOffice bugzilla because of the volume. We already essentially took over
 fdo by volume, so lets keep this one dedicated to LO and LO only.

Post-migration, candidates to be 'products' in the bugtracker include:
- LibreOffice application
- Android/iOS remote
- BSA
- Anything web-related for libreoffice
- Anything web-related for TDF

On the one hand, that list includes things that aren't strictly the
LibreOffice application. On the other hand, pretty much everything
else on that list
1) exists to support the LibreOffice application
2) is dwarfed by the bugtracking needs of the LibreOffice application

I see arguments from both sides, but I feel like the 800-lb
application on the list wins out.

The nice thing with putting everything under a LibreOffice
bugtracker for now is that if in the future we do decide to migrate
bugtracking for TDF-specific web infra to a separate instance, that's
going to be a much smaller and simpler piece.

Cheers,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-21 Thread V Stuart Foote

 -Original Message-
 From: Robinson Tryon [mailto:bishop.robin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:02 PM
 
 If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org
 
 Thoughts??

Well it would have the advantage of neutral Bugzilla support for any other TDF 
projects and infrastructure resources--e.g.  Tinderbox, Mail lists, Ask, WWW, 
wiki, Twitter, etc. 


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-21 Thread Jean-Baptiste Faure

Le 21/11/2013 19:52, Robinson Tryon a écrit :
 Hi all,
 [...]
 
 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo
why not but not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea,
risk of error with 0

 * lbz
OK

 * libo
No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

 * lo
No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

 * lob
Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
with 0

 * lobz
Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
with 0

 * tdf
No, tdf =/= LibreOffice

Best regards.
JBF

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[Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

Hi all,

Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)

Per our last meeting, I talked with the ESC about abbreviations:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/December_02#PENDING_ITEM:_Bugzilla_Migration_etc.

The ESC gave a few more suggestions, and said that the people doing
the work should choose -- so I figured I would email out to all of our
marvelous QA contributors and ask them to weigh-in!

For the next couple of days, please provide comments on the proposed
names. I suggest that you provide simple, direct reasons in favor of
(or against) particular names.

If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.

Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo
* lbz
* libo
* lo
* lob
* lobz
* tdf

Cheers,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

2013-11-21 Thread Florian Reisinger

Hi,

 Am 21.11.2013 um 19:52 schrieb Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
 
 Per our last meeting, I talked with the ESC about abbreviations:
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/December_02#PENDING_ITEM:_Bugzilla_Migration_etc.
 
 The ESC gave a few more suggestions, and said that the people doing
 the work should choose -- so I figured I would email out to all of our
 marvelous QA contributors and ask them to weigh-in!
 
 For the next couple of days, please provide comments on the proposed
 names. I suggest that you provide simple, direct reasons in favor of
 (or against) particular names.
 
 If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.

VOTED

 
 Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
 * blo

Adapts the current name shema..

 * lbz

Difficult to speak out as a word

 * libo

I guess, that this is my favorite

 * lo

I dislike that

 * lob

Would use this instead

 * lobz

Difficult to spell

 * tdf

LibreOffice != TDF, that, why I dislike that

 
 Cheers,
 --R

Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
Florian Reisinger
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345