Re: Linux distro chooser
=> distro picker always points to GNU Guix (: On 2021-10-29 12:48, Jean Louis wrote: > stuff ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* Michael McMahon [2021-10-28 17:23]: > I started working on a similar distro picker concept before I started at the > FSF, but I never finished it. > > My proof of concept is on my personal github: > https://github.com/TechnologyClassroom/distro-picker > > It depends on a choose your own adventure (CYOA) style free software JS > script based on JQuery. Thanks, great technically, but not ethically, especially in the context of free software, FSF and LibrePlanet: Many paths do not have ends. Loads of Buttons How Libre do you want your system to be? 1. Mostly Free Software; 2. I do not care; What would mean "mostly" free software?! As if you provide even one proprietary program that may put users at risk of surveillance or similar issue. Such chooser software in the context of free software shall not even question if it should offer proprietary software. "I do not care" is expression that is worldwide representing lack of responsibility. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
I started working on a similar distro picker concept before I started at the FSF, but I never finished it. My proof of concept is on my personal github: https://github.com/TechnologyClassroom/distro-picker It depends on a choose your own adventure (CYOA) style free software JS script based on JQuery. Best, Michael McMahon | Web Developer, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: 4337 2794 C8AD D5CA 8FCF FA6C D037 59DA B600 E3C0 https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org On 10/28/21 4:18 AM, Jean Louis wrote: * jahoti [2021-10-28 09:36]: Regarding Wi-Fi, I have used USB dongles that simply work with free operating systems. These I have used for years. Some Wi-Fi devices in computers work without problems anyway. Though these last years, I don't use Wi-Fi directly, I connect to mobile phone, USB tethering and mobile phone may connect to Wi-Fi. Now I am connected to Mi-Fi by USB tethering and use GNU/Linux notebook to route Internet to LAN and other computers. Thank you! I completely forgot USB tethering existed- it sounds like a much more practical technique than I had thought it was, which is good. Ways to connect to Internet: - USB tethering; - Wi-Fi, it can work or without USB Wi-Fi dongle; - wired LAN network to router connecting to Internet; - direct connection with wire from computer without Internet to computer with Internet; - ISDN dial-up and normal telephone dial up; - cable Internet; - Bluetooth tethering; This is computer I am working on right now, but I have many various others. HW probe of Lenovo ThinkPad T410 2516DC... #387ee22bc4 https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=387ee22bc4 ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
On 10/28/21 6:12 AM, Jean Louis wrote: * jahoti [2021-10-28 08:54]: For practical purposes, yes; it was based on someone else's first-hand account, the source of which I've misremembered and now cannot find. Regardless, your first-hand experience is much more informative, relevant, and fortunately also optimistic- thank you for sharing it! Could I ask how you deal with Wi-Fi? Regarding Wi-Fi, I have used USB dongles that simply work with free operating systems. These I have used for years. Some Wi-Fi devices in computers work without problems anyway. Though these last years, I don't use Wi-Fi directly, I connect to mobile phone, USB tethering and mobile phone may connect to Wi-Fi. Now I am connected to Mi-Fi by USB tethering and use GNU/Linux notebook to route Internet to LAN and other computers. Thank you! I completely forgot USB tethering existed- it sounds like a much more practical technique than I had thought it was, which is good. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
On 10/28/21 4:13 AM, Jean Louis wrote: * jahoti [2021-10-28 05:57]: I would not call it "Freedom Ladder", you give me impression it is something difficult, while I don't share that viewpoint. True as that may be, it is important to consider that switching to a new OS (even part-time) is a relatively large step, especially for those who don't do so regularly. If the experience does not begin well, there is a real risk people will give up and be less willing to try again in future. That's not to suggest recommending non-free distros, just that great care be taken to ensure people will not install the free ones only to be frustrated by them. Sounds like hypothetical statement, help me understand it better. For practical purposes, yes; it was based on someone else's first-hand account, the source of which I've misremembered and now cannot find. Regardless, your first-hand experience is much more informative, relevant, and fortunately also optimistic- thank you for sharing it! Could I ask how you deal with Wi-Fi? OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* jahoti [2021-10-28 08:54]: > For practical purposes, yes; it was based on someone else's first-hand > account, the source of which I've misremembered and now cannot find. > > Regardless, your first-hand experience is much more informative, relevant, > and fortunately also optimistic- thank you for sharing it! Could I ask how > you deal with Wi-Fi? Regarding Wi-Fi, I have used USB dongles that simply work with free operating systems. These I have used for years. Some Wi-Fi devices in computers work without problems anyway. Though these last years, I don't use Wi-Fi directly, I connect to mobile phone, USB tethering and mobile phone may connect to Wi-Fi. Now I am connected to Mi-Fi by USB tethering and use GNU/Linux notebook to route Internet to LAN and other computers. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
On 10/27/21 5:23 AM, Jean Louis wrote: * Arthur Torrey [2021-10-26 06:51]: IMHO given that a user starting on the Freedom Ladder probably has hardware that was purchased for a non-free OS, pointing them at an all-free distro is setting them up for a bad experience... Quite contrary, giving proprietary software to user without his knowledge is subjugating user to control of software makers, that has been shown over and over again to be bad experience. I would not call it "Freedom Ladder", you give me impression it is something difficult, while I don't share that viewpoint. True as that may be, it is important to consider that switching to a new OS (even part-time) is a relatively large step, especially for those who don't do so regularly. If the experience does not begin well, there is a real risk people will give up and be less willing to try again in future. That's not to suggest recommending non-free distros, just that great care be taken to ensure people will not install the free ones only to be frustrated by them. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* jahoti [2021-10-28 05:57]: > > I would not call it "Freedom Ladder", you give me impression it is > > something difficult, while I don't share that viewpoint. > > True as that may be, it is important to consider that switching to a > new OS (even part-time) is a relatively large step, especially for > those who don't do so regularly. If the experience does not begin > well, there is a real risk people will give up and be less willing > to try again in future. > > That's not to suggest recommending non-free distros, just that great > care be taken to ensure people will not install the free ones only > to be frustrated by them. Sounds like hypothetical statement, help me understand it better. Is that maybe your personal experience? Or did you convert computer for other people, how many computers did you convert to GNU/Linux? How many friends did you convert? I am doing the conversion since 1999. All of my friends got their computers converted. None of them gave up for reason that they were very much interested, in fact, they asked many questions, they were learning with interest and we had great time. I had maybe 10 computers in computer club and invited people to learn. Some of them asked me to come to their homes to install the system. None of those who ever entered computer club had any problems, they wanted to learn. Then I was doing seminar on GNU/Linux in Stuttgart, Germany, that was for 2 times. I did not experience frustration or less willingness. Quite contrary, people even paid quite a good money just to learn more about it. I have found a lot of willingness. That may be my luck, I tell you how it is. Staff members now don't complain and they use GNU/Linux. For them is totally irrelevant what system is there, most probably they don't know it. Majority of people don't install systems, you get the computer in the shop with the system on it. GNU/Linux is on many computers in Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Germany, Austria, so customer comes into shop and can choose the computer with OS installed already. In East Africa, they will install any OS by wish of the customer, as anyway all the software is gratis here, as nobody cares of copyrights. In general, people who will find GNU/Linux may have fundamental reason to use it, they may find the number of available software very comfortable and go for it, they may find the liberation from proprietary updates the main reason. Some will value the privacy that GNU/Linux offers. There is often some fundamental reason WHY they wish to use it. This reason drives users and with interest they learn anything. In office and house there are children using GNU/Linux system all time. There is engineer who uses Emacs to write reports, there is person who read 3 books in her life, uses GNUCash to write accounting reports, there are few other people who use the system all the time last 3 years without problem. It is my experience, and I am continuing with it. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* jahoti [2021-10-28 09:36]: > > Regarding Wi-Fi, I have used USB dongles that simply work with free > > operating systems. These I have used for years. Some Wi-Fi devices in > > computers work without problems anyway. > > > > Though these last years, I don't use Wi-Fi directly, I connect to > > mobile phone, USB tethering and mobile phone may connect to Wi-Fi. > > > > Now I am connected to Mi-Fi by USB tethering and use GNU/Linux > > notebook to route Internet to LAN and other computers. > > Thank you! I completely forgot USB tethering existed- it sounds like a much > more practical technique than I had thought it was, which is good. Ways to connect to Internet: - USB tethering; - Wi-Fi, it can work or without USB Wi-Fi dongle; - wired LAN network to router connecting to Internet; - direct connection with wire from computer without Internet to computer with Internet; - ISDN dial-up and normal telephone dial up; - cable Internet; - Bluetooth tethering; This is computer I am working on right now, but I have many various others. HW probe of Lenovo ThinkPad T410 2516DC... #387ee22bc4 https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=387ee22bc4 -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* Robert [2021-10-25 17:40]: > Hey Paul, > > thanks for sharing the Distrochooser. Looks nice, works great. Gladly, I > chose the right distro, depending on the chooser :). This is wrong mailing list to drive people to non-free software. Please see: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanet:About/Code_of_Conduct Advocate Freedom. The free software movement is first and foremost a social movement, so please be sure to have read our critical documents and understand our core philosophy. In accordance with 1-3, please do not be aggressive toward others who may not immediately share the same views. If we are not encouraging and respectful, we can't hope to gain their support. Frame issues and arguments in a way which is conducive to changing minds, not alienating visitors. People are unlikely to listen if they feel in any way like they're being attacked. They are much more receptive to ideas which are presented in a positive and constructive way. Being respectful doesn't mean sacrificing our core ideals; we should always frame the issues we work on in terms of those ideals. That means using language that foregrounds freedom, like referring to the operating system we promote as "GNU/Linux", talking about free software rather than open source, and encouraging people to try distributions that are fully committed to freedom. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* Arthur Torrey [2021-10-26 06:51]: > I also would point out that I AVOID the "all free" distros because I > pick up my hardware used / salvaged and it is FAR more important to > me that it WORKS than that I avoid binary blobs and other non-free > stuff of that sort (I do try to minimize it, but I do what it takes > to make my hardware work) I understand that as your perosnal decision. Though we have this LibrePlanet mailing list to promote fully free software. Not to promote proprietary software. Since years I use fully free software and all my personally wanted devices work, I could manage to get WiFi working, I connecte to mobile phones, my LAN works, my graphics works. Of course my case is special case, as I don't play games and don't use special graphics. I do use all kinds of computers, including Fujitsu, Lenovo Thinkpad, Toshiba, and others. Yet my case is not power user case. We promote using full free distributions: http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html > IMHO given that a user starting on the Freedom Ladder probably has > hardware that was purchased for a non-free OS, pointing them at an > all-free distro is setting them up for a bad experience... Quite contrary, giving proprietary software to user without his knowledge is subjugating user to control of software makers, that has been shown over and over again to be bad experience. I would not call it "Freedom Ladder", you give me impression it is something difficult, while I don't share that viewpoint. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
On 26/10/2021 02:22, jahoti via libreplanet-discuss wrote: On 10/25/21 2:31 PM, Greg Farough wrote: On Mon, Oct 25 2021, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote: Could the fsf not perhaps adapt the tool to work alongside freedom ladder? I think that's a good idea, as the current FSDG distro page doesn't do the best job of steering people toward a distro appropriate for them. We could adapt a site like this for our own purposes, one which gives the FSDG distros priority and wraps a similar questionnaire around them. As a matter of interest, does anybody know if the questionnaire used is available under a free license? The framework for the website is under the MPL 2.0 (https://github.com/distrochooser/distrochooser), yet the finer details of the actual selection algorithm are missing. Yeah, I got the impression there were several different licenses for this. Paul ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss -- Paul Sutton, Cert Cont Sci (Open) https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/ OpenPGP : 4350 91C4 C8FB 681B 23A6 7944 8EA9 1B51 E27E 3D99 Pronoun : him/his/he #TheYearofTheFediverse https://joinmastodon.org/ OpenPGP_0x8EA91B51E27E3D99.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
On 10/25/21 2:31 PM, Greg Farough wrote: On Mon, Oct 25 2021, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote: Could the fsf not perhaps adapt the tool to work alongside freedom ladder? I think that's a good idea, as the current FSDG distro page doesn't do the best job of steering people toward a distro appropriate for them. We could adapt a site like this for our own purposes, one which gives the FSDG distros priority and wraps a similar questionnaire around them. As a matter of interest, does anybody know if the questionnaire used is available under a free license? The framework for the website is under the MPL 2.0 (https://github.com/distrochooser/distrochooser), yet the finer details of the actual selection algorithm are missing. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
re: Linux distro chooser
I was rather underwhelmed - nice idea but the end was a HUGE list of distros, with very little info that would separate them. For instance, I said yes to user is visually impaired, and that got the same list w/ the addition of "Software for visually impaired people are installable (e. g. 'Orca')" to each entry except for Knoppix, which has extra stuff for this built in, and might be a best choice, but it was in the MIDDLE of the list... I gave feedback that they need to reduce the number of suggestions and make it a ranked list not just the list of most distros in the same order w/ +/-'s for each, as that really doesn't tell me much... I also would point out that I AVOID the "all free" distros because I pick up my hardware used / salvaged and it is FAR more important to me that it WORKS than that I avoid binary blobs and other non-free stuff of that sort (I do try to minimize it, but I do what it takes to make my hardware work) IMHO given that a user starting on the Freedom Ladder probably has hardware that was purchased for a non-free OS, pointing them at an all-free distro is setting them up for a bad experience... OTOH a distro like Debian that starts by installing only free (albeit w/ blobs in the kernel) software, but gives an error and points out the non-free drivers needed to make a functional system if needed is FAR more helpful, especially to those that aren't into the esoteric challenges of finding hardware that runs on free software (something not listed on most boxes...) ART --- Start Quote --- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 18:26:48 +0100 From: Paul Sutton To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Subject: Linux distro chooser Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Hi All I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a good linux distribution based on their needs. https://distrochooser.de/ Paul End Quote -- -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss [2021-10-24 20:28]: > Hi All > > I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a > good linux distribution based on their needs. > > https://distrochooser.de/ I don't agree it is even relevant for Libreplanet Discuss mailing list due to reason that it offers proprietary software. Quote: , | The (license) ideology of a distribution is a contentious | debate. There are distributions using mostly "free-licenses", others | also use "non-free" software. | | - [ ] I want to use free licenses as much as I can | | - [ ] I'm fine with non-free licenses as long as my system works ` Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
I find that distribution mostly doesn't matter. Sure something like gentoo is going to be hard but the choice of general distribution is of limited importance. Most things people want to do are supported by every general distribution. The exception ironically is fsf endorsed distributions because they miss firmware for common hardware. On Sun, 2021-10-24 at 18:26 +0100, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > Hi All > > I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people > find > a good linux distribution based on their needs. > > https://distrochooser.de/ > > Paul > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
On Mon, Oct 25 2021, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > On 25/10/2021 05:03, Jean Louis wrote: >> * Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss >> [2021-10-24 20:28]: >>> Hi All >>> >>> I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a >>> good linux distribution based on their needs. >>> >>> https://distrochooser.de/ >> I don't agree it is even relevant for Libreplanet Discuss mailing >> list >> due to reason that it offers proprietary software. It's definitely relevant and worth sharing, if only as inspiration for creating a similar tool. >> Quote: >> , >> | The (license) ideology of a distribution is a contentious >> | debate. There are distributions using mostly "free-licenses", others >> | also use "non-free" software. >> | >> | - [ ] I want to use free licenses as much as I can >> | >> | - [ ] I'm fine with non-free licenses as long as my system works But yes, due to the language there and some other problems we couldn't promote this site or use it in our campaign materials as-is. > Hi > > I do see the point being made here, however wasn't the idea behind > freedom ladder to perhaps take people on a journey that will end with > them using free software. So to begin with people will perhaps need > to use non-free to get something working, but the eventual aim is to > eliminate the need for non-free anything. > > With freedom ladder, if you start off with Windows and MS office then > a first step could be to start to use say Libreoffice so when you do > switch to Linux then you are familiar with the tools available, > perhaps switch to nextcloud for storage etc. > > We need to encourage people on that transitional journey, but take in > to account their usage needs. Rather than stopping them right at the > start by making that journey more of an abrupt change. > > > Could the fsf not perhaps adapt the tool to work alongside freedom > ladder? I think that's a good idea, as the current FSDG distro page doesn't do the best job of steering people toward a distro appropriate for them. We could adapt a site like this for our own purposes, one which gives the FSDG distros priority and wraps a similar questionnaire around them. Having distros that provide nonfree software on it would be okay *if* the distro chooser offers them a clear progression. For example: "You seem to be a user looking for an easy-to-run desktop OS. We recommend Trisquel. If you're unable to use Trisquel for whatever reason, we recommend using Ubuntu until you're ready to move to Trisquel." That way, it will never just say "run Ubuntu." That's not at all ideal. In situations where it would recommend Ubuntu, it's only as a stepping stone to Trisquel. We would need to be careful about the phrasing and presentation, but I think something like that could work. -g -- Greg Farough // Campaigns Manager Free Software Foundation Join the FSF and help us defend software freedom: https://my.fsf.org signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
Hey Paul, thanks for sharing the Distrochooser. Looks nice, works great. Gladly, I chose the right distro, depending on the chooser :). Am 24.10.21 um 19:26 schrieb Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss: Hi All I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a good linux distribution based on their needs. https://distrochooser.de/ Paul ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss Robert ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
* Paul Sutton [2021-10-25 11:09]: > I do see the point being made here, however wasn't the idea behind freedom > ladder to perhaps take people on a journey that will end with them using > free software. I think it is exactly what it does, it drives people to non-free software and to get into doubts, in order to have their system run properly. > So to begin with people will perhaps need to use non-free to get > something working, but the eventual aim is to eliminate the need for > non-free anything. It's not true. For years I don't use proprietary software apart from BIOS in some computers. Fully free FSF approved operating system distributions are listed here: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html Of course not every driver for every device will work, that is why I choose hardware that will work with software that is free. Not the other way around. > With freedom ladder, if you start off with Windows and MS office then a > first step could be to start to use say Libreoffice so when you do switch to > Linux then you are familiar with the tools available, perhaps switch to > nextcloud for storage etc. Nextcloud is anyway remote, majority of users don't know if it is free software or not. Back in 1999, I have been using proprietary system and I was surprised that I had 3 questions of support, the fourth one had a cost of 800 German marks at the time. There were secret codes that I had to obtain to run software on my computer PS/2. Otherwise it would not run. Those secret codes spent already my 3 questions of support. OS was constantly blocking my business, and I have spent so much Internet in few days that the bill left unpaid until today. Company forgot about me. I had to re-start the program over and over again and each time after 10-15 hours it froze the computer. When I changed to GNU/Linux I have written list of applications and found replacements in free software, learned it and deleted the abusive and useless non-multitasking Windoze. At that time point I have stopped using Warez, and found Perl and CPAN and other software and programming languages. Suddenly I could do so much more than what I could do with Windoze, at least so was the feeling. Out of disgruntled situation I have played the game xBill extensively. These days it is xBill and xLenart. Summary is that it is quite easy to switch to fully free operating system. I have converted many people's computers with little or no complaints. For employees I don't even tell them it is GNU/Linux, I just say, open up GNU Emacs, start TUTORIAL, and other few things like email, and they are doing well. Employees are also good to operate Mutt email client. > We need to encourage people on that transitional journey, but take in to > account their usage needs. When I am about to swim, I jump straight in the water. And I don't feel any transitional temperature adjustments that way. It is straight and easy. > Could the fsf not perhaps adapt the tool to work alongside freedom > ladder? FSF does have such projects, like https://www.fsf.org/windows/ -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Linux distro chooser
On 25/10/2021 05:03, Jean Louis wrote: * Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss [2021-10-24 20:28]: Hi All I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a good linux distribution based on their needs. https://distrochooser.de/ I don't agree it is even relevant for Libreplanet Discuss mailing list due to reason that it offers proprietary software. Quote: , | The (license) ideology of a distribution is a contentious | debate. There are distributions using mostly "free-licenses", others | also use "non-free" software. | | - [ ] I want to use free licenses as much as I can | | - [ ] I'm fine with non-free licenses as long as my system works ` Hi I do see the point being made here, however wasn't the idea behind freedom ladder to perhaps take people on a journey that will end with them using free software. So to begin with people will perhaps need to use non-free to get something working, but the eventual aim is to eliminate the need for non-free anything. With freedom ladder, if you start off with Windows and MS office then a first step could be to start to use say Libreoffice so when you do switch to Linux then you are familiar with the tools available, perhaps switch to nextcloud for storage etc. We need to encourage people on that transitional journey, but take in to account their usage needs. Rather than stopping them right at the start by making that journey more of an abrupt change. Could the fsf not perhaps adapt the tool to work alongside freedom ladder? Regards Paul OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Linux distro chooser
Hi All I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a good linux distribution based on their needs. https://distrochooser.de/ Paul -- Paul Sutton, Cert Cont Sci (Open) https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/ OpenPGP : 4350 91C4 C8FB 681B 23A6 7944 8EA9 1B51 E27E 3D99 Pronoun : him/his/he #TheYearofTheFediverse https://joinmastodon.org/ OpenPGP_0x8EA91B51E27E3D99.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
