Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Dominicus writes:
> Flaming Hakama by Elaine wrote
>>> I'm dealing with several of these MIDI errors during compilation of a
>>> long
>>> piece.
>>> "programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI."
>>>
>>> I tried to get rid of these by placing a starting volume, but alas, it's
>>> not
>>> that simple.
>>
>> The approach I use is to define some dynamics that don't print, and use
>> them when necessary.
>
> Indeed, I'm aware of this solution. But v2.18 won't state which line or
> measure is triggering the errors.
>
> Since I'm cleaning up a long piece, finding which notes eliminate the errors
> is non-trivial. Trial/error search is very time-consuming due to compile
> time and the hundreds of hairpins to review. Since the issue relates to
> starting volume, commenting out sections of the piece hoping to isolate to
> fewer measures injects its own set of issues.
>
> It would be a welcome enhancement to state either measure of line when
> raising this error. Has this been addressed in later versions?
-*- mode: compilation; default-directory: "/tmp/" -*-
Compilation started at Wed Oct 12 08:00:03
lilypond /tmp/ga.ly
GNU LilyPond 2.19.44
Processing `/tmp/ga.ly'
Parsing...
/tmp/ga.ly:1: warning: no \version statement found, please add
\version "2.19.44"
for future compatibility
Interpreting music...
/tmp/ga.ly:2:7: warning: (De)crescendo with unspecified starting volume in MIDI.
{ c1
\< }
MIDI output to `ga.midi'...
Success: compilation successfully completed
Compilation finished at Wed Oct 12 08:00:04
--
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
I'm dealing with several of these MIDI errors during compilation of a long piece. "programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI." I tried to get rid of these by placing a starting volume, but alas, it's not that simple. I'm not the original typesetter for the piece, and I have 250 bars to inspect and plenty of polyphonic sections. I'm compiling with v2.18.2. Do later LilyPond versions reveal the offending line# when raising this error? If not, it would be a welcome enhancement to specify the offending bar along with this error. I've spent hours searching for a hairpin in the haystack (pun intended) -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/MIDI-dynamics-parsing-error-tp162479p195255.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
On Tue, 2014-05-20 at 06:41 -0700, Knute Snortum wrote:
> (Note: the above code still emits a warning: Programming error:
> impossible or ambiguous (de) crescendo)
That's true - sorry, I was really commenting only on the "unspecified
starting volume" warning.
> One of the things I really liked about LilyPond was the ability to
> compile sheet music and MIDI from the same source.
That's exactly the same thought that I had when I started learning to
use LilyPond - the idea of producing multiple different kinds of output
for different purposes from the same source feels very attractive.
> It seems to me that this behavior is getting away from that value. I
> would think that in piano and choral music if you create a temporary
> voice, not only do you want the original dynamic to carry over into
> the temporary, you want any dynamic mark to carry over back into the
> original after the temporary is over.
I've often wondered the same thing - the default behavior of having a
separate dynamic performer per every Voice context probably works well
in cases where a Staff never contains more than a single Voice, but
especially with piano music, where it's convenient to use temporary
polyphony with new Voice contexts to achieve the intended layout, the
default behavior of Voices can easily give unsatisfactory (or even
surprising, if one doesn't know what's going on) results for MIDI unless
extra care is taken to work around this behavior.
> If I understand you correctly, the only way to set a dynamic change
> while temporary voices are active is to set the mark on one voice, set
> and omit it on the other(s), and set and omit it on the original voice
> once the temporary voices are done. This seems unnecessarily complex
> for a situation that I would think happens many times.
This is indeed a cumbersome solution, but at least it'll likely do the
job...
An alternative might be to try to remove the dynamic performer from all
Voice contexts, and add one to the Staff containing the voices instead
(this example still uses tags to reset the MIDI velocity level from \sf
to \mf to avoid the warnings):
\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
upper = \relative c \new Voice \with { \remove "Dynamic_performer" }
{
| gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
|
<<
\new Voice \with { \remove "Dynamic_performer" } { bf4 -\tag #'midi
\mf -\< a16 ( \sf gf' f
ef ) bf4 -\tag #'midi \mf \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) }
\new Voice \with { \remove "Dynamic_performer" } { 16 q q q
a4 16 q q q a4 }
>>
}
\score {
\new Staff = "up" {
\clef treble
\keepWithTag #'layout \upper
}
\layout {
}
}
\score {
\new Staff = "up" \with { \consists "Dynamic_performer" } {
\keepWithTag #'midi \upper
}
\midi {
\tempo 4 = 120
}
}
However, I'm not entirely sure how reliably this is guaranteed to work
(if at all) since I believe that at least some of the MIDI-related
performers are targeted to work correctly only within a particular type
of context and therefore cannot really be moved entirely freely between
different contexts. With this particular example, however, the end
result sounds to me as if the dynamic changes would get applied to all
Voices in the parallel music expression.
--
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Am 20.05.2014 15:41, schrieb Knute Snortum: (Note: the above code still emits a warning: Programming error: impossible or ambiguous (de) crescendo) One of the things I really liked about LilyPond was the ability to compile sheet music and MIDI from the same source. It seems to me that this behavior is getting away from that value. I would think that in piano and choral music if you create a temporary voice, not only do you want the original dynamic to carry over into the temporary, you want any dynamic mark to carry over back into the original after the temporary is over. If I understand you correctly, the only way to set a dynamic change while temporary voices are active is to set the mark on one voice, set and omit it on the other(s), and set and omit it on the original voice once the temporary voices are done. This seems unnecessarily complex for a situation that I would think happens many times. Perhaps it’s possible to move the Dynamics_engraver and _performer to staff level for this purpose? Best, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
(Note: the above code still emits a warning: Programming error: impossible
or ambiguous (de) crescendo)
One of the things I really liked about LilyPond was the ability to compile
sheet music and MIDI from the same source. It seems to me that this
behavior is getting away from that value. I would think that in piano and
choral music if you create a temporary voice, not only do you want the
original dynamic to carry over into the temporary, you want any dynamic
mark to carry over back into the original after the temporary is over.
If I understand you correctly, the only way to set a dynamic change while
temporary voices are active is to set the mark on one voice, set and omit
it on the other(s), and set and omit it on the original voice once the
temporary voices are done. This seems unnecessarily complex for a
situation that I would think happens many times.
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Heikki Tauriainen wrote:
> On Sun, 2014-05-18 at 10:40 -0700, Paul Morris wrote:
> > Conor Cook wrote
> > > It is my impression that a decrescendo starts where you are and gets
> > > quieter. Does Lilypond not have a default (e.g. mf) MIDI dynamic like
> > > Sibelius?
> >
> > Good point. Wouldn't it make sense to just use a default volume for
> MIDI,
> > if it has not been specified in the score with a dynamics mark, rather
> than
> > issuing this warning?
> >
> > -Paul
>
> When this warning is shown, LilyPond will actually use the middle of the
> available note velocity range as the starting velocity ("volume").
>
> (This is an exception to most other MIDI settings, such as the MIDI
> instrument, where no defaults are enforced if they are not set
> explicitly. However, for note velocities LilyPond likely needs to
> always use *some* value for MIDI output, which is probably why a default
> is used in this case.)
>
> However, one purpose of the warning is to direct the user's attention to
> input locations where the MIDI output is possibly not what the user
> might expect: for example, since every Voice has by default a separate
> dynamic performer for MIDI, the default volume can easily take effect
> "accidentally" in temporary polyphonic passages such as follows:
>
> \version "2.18.2"
>
> \score {
> \new Staff {
> \new Voice {
> % ... a long monophonic passage
> c'1\p
> <<
> \new Voice {
> c''2\> % starts at the default velocity, not \p
> g'2\!
> }
> \new Voice {
> c'1% this note also gets the default velocity
> }
> >>
> % ... continue with a single Voice
> }
> }
> \layout { }
> \midi { }
> }
>
> In this case the warning could be helpful in signaling the user that
> LilyPond may need some additional help in guessing the "correct" initial
> note velocities for the Voices in the temporary polyphonic passage.
>
> As to the original problem of including the \mf only in MIDI to suppress
> the warning, one could of course also use tags as a workaround, however
> at the cost of duplicating part of the music and the entire \score block
> (personally I nevertheless usually use this approach since, after the
> initial \score setup, it allows customizing MIDI output independently
> from the layout whenever needed):
>
>
> \version "2.18.2"
> \language "english"
>
> upper = \relative c {
> | gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
> gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
> |
> <<
> { \tag #'layout { bf4\< } \tag #'midi { bf4\mf\< } a16 ( \sf gf' f
> ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) }
> \\
> { 16 q q q a4 16 q q q a4 }
> >>
> }
>
> \score {
> \new Staff = "up" {
> \clef treble
> \keepWithTag #'layout \upper
> }
> \layout {
> }
> }
>
> \score {
> \new Staff = "up" {
> \keepWithTag #'midi \upper
> }
> \midi {
> \tempo 4 = 120
> }
> }
>
>
> Now that I looked at the original example, it looks like this example
> also triggers the creation of separate dynamic performers for the upper
> and lower parts of the << { ... } \\ { ... } >> passage. Therefore the
> crescendos in the upper part will probably have no effect on the notes
> in the lower part, all of which will then sound with the "default"
> volume (since no initial volume has been specified). If this is not
> what is intended (possibly not if looking at the typeset output), the
> explicit initial volume and the crescendos should be repeated also in
> the lower part to have them applied to these notes in MIDI...
>
> --
> Heikki Tauriainen
>
>
>
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>
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
On Sun, 2014-05-18 at 10:40 -0700, Paul Morris wrote:
> Conor Cook wrote
> > It is my impression that a decrescendo starts where you are and gets
> > quieter. Does Lilypond not have a default (e.g. mf) MIDI dynamic like
> > Sibelius?
>
> Good point. Wouldn't it make sense to just use a default volume for MIDI,
> if it has not been specified in the score with a dynamics mark, rather than
> issuing this warning?
>
> -Paul
When this warning is shown, LilyPond will actually use the middle of the
available note velocity range as the starting velocity ("volume").
(This is an exception to most other MIDI settings, such as the MIDI
instrument, where no defaults are enforced if they are not set
explicitly. However, for note velocities LilyPond likely needs to
always use *some* value for MIDI output, which is probably why a default
is used in this case.)
However, one purpose of the warning is to direct the user's attention to
input locations where the MIDI output is possibly not what the user
might expect: for example, since every Voice has by default a separate
dynamic performer for MIDI, the default volume can easily take effect
"accidentally" in temporary polyphonic passages such as follows:
\version "2.18.2"
\score {
\new Staff {
\new Voice {
% ... a long monophonic passage
c'1\p
<<
\new Voice {
c''2\> % starts at the default velocity, not \p
g'2\!
}
\new Voice {
c'1% this note also gets the default velocity
}
>>
% ... continue with a single Voice
}
}
\layout { }
\midi { }
}
In this case the warning could be helpful in signaling the user that
LilyPond may need some additional help in guessing the "correct" initial
note velocities for the Voices in the temporary polyphonic passage.
As to the original problem of including the \mf only in MIDI to suppress
the warning, one could of course also use tags as a workaround, however
at the cost of duplicating part of the music and the entire \score block
(personally I nevertheless usually use this approach since, after the
initial \score setup, it allows customizing MIDI output independently
from the layout whenever needed):
\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
upper = \relative c {
| gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
|
<<
{ \tag #'layout { bf4\< } \tag #'midi { bf4\mf\< } a16 ( \sf gf' f
ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) }
\\
{ 16 q q q a4 16 q q q a4 }
>>
}
\score {
\new Staff = "up" {
\clef treble
\keepWithTag #'layout \upper
}
\layout {
}
}
\score {
\new Staff = "up" {
\keepWithTag #'midi \upper
}
\midi {
\tempo 4 = 120
}
}
Now that I looked at the original example, it looks like this example
also triggers the creation of separate dynamic performers for the upper
and lower parts of the << { ... } \\ { ... } >> passage. Therefore the
crescendos in the upper part will probably have no effect on the notes
in the lower part, all of which will then sound with the "default"
volume (since no initial volume has been specified). If this is not
what is intended (possibly not if looking at the typeset output), the
explicit initial volume and the crescendos should be repeated also in
the lower part to have them applied to these notes in MIDI...
--
Heikki Tauriainen
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Thomas Morley writes:
> Sorry if I was not clear enough.
> I was looking for a method to circumvent the midi-error, but keep the
> visual output.
>
> Let me be a bit more verbose:
>
> The following gives nice visual output, though triggers an error with midi:
>
> { c'1\> c' c'\! }
>
> Inserting an expicit Dynamic resolves the midi-error, though, the
> Hairpin starts at the right of the DynamicText, ofcourse.
>
> { c'1\mf\> c' c'\! }
>
> Trying to remove the printed DynamicText via \hide or \omit or
> #point-stencil, leaves the Hairpin untouched, i.e. starting to the
> right of the now invisible or non-existent DynamicText-stencil.
> (Little different with \hide)
>
> { c'1-\hide\mf\> c' c'\! }
> { c'1-\omit\mf\> c' c'\! }
> { c'1-\tweak #'stencil #point-stencil \mf\> c' c'\! }
The question then is what the right look is. If the right look is the
one with the Midi error, and apparently it is what we get in other
situations, then arguably the code for typesetting the hairpin should
explicitly check for an _omitted_ stencil (one being #f) and in that
case revert to the anchorless behavior.
In short: if \omit does not do the trick now, I think it should (bug
report?). We don't have a separate override shortcut for point-stencil
in case one still wants an anchor around. The still-discussed
appearance override would allow using something like
\behold \markup \null \mf
in this function if it is really necessary for some case. But I think
that in the use case of \omit\mf, the desire really is to only have an
acoustic representation without a visual impact.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: /omit and /hide, was Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
It's sorted under the \ character: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/visibility-of-objects#index-_005comit-1 On Sun, 2014-05-18 at 09:33 -0500, Patrick or Cynthia Karl wrote: > On May 18, 2014, at 12:28:22 +0200, David Kastrup wrote: > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 12:28:22 +0200 > > From: David Kastrup > > To: Thomas Morley > > Subject: Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error > > > > > > If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding > > the stencil with point-stencil will work? > > Shouldn't \omit and \hide appear in the Notation Reference Manual, in > particular in Appendix E LilyPond command index? I cannot find either > command, neither in Appendix E nor by searching the Notation Manual. > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Conor Cook wrote > It is my impression that a decrescendo starts where you are and gets > quieter. Does Lilypond not have a default (e.g. mf) MIDI dynamic like > Sibelius? Good point. Wouldn't it make sense to just use a default volume for MIDI, if it has not been specified in the score with a dynamics mark, rather than issuing this warning? -Paul -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/MIDI-dynamics-parsing-error-tp162479p162563.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
2014-05-18 16:18 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
> Thomas Morley writes:
>
>> 2014-05-18 12:28 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
>>> Thomas Morley writes:
>>>
2014-05-18 7:20 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
> Knute Snortum writes:
>
>> My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a
>> dynamic
>> marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the
>> dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work?
Omitting the DynamicText.stencil will not cause the Hairpin to start as
usual.
Resetting the parent of the Hairpin my work:
\version "2.18.0"
\score
{
{
\once \override Hairpin.after-line-breaking =
#(lambda (grob)
(let ((dyn-txt (ly:spanner-bound grob LEFT)))
(ly:grob-set-property! dyn-txt 'stencil #f)
(ly:spanner-set-bound! grob LEFT (ly:grob-parent dyn-txt X
c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
}
\layout {}
\midi {}
}
>>>
>>> If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding
>>> the stencil with point-stencil will work?
>>
>> Using point-stencil doesn't work either.
>>
>> \version "2.18.0"
>>
>> \score
>> {
>> {
>>\override DynamicText.stencil = #point-stencil
>> c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
>> }
>> \layout {}
>> \midi {}
>> }
>
> Ok, I'll bite: what does "doesn't work" mean? I see the same results
> for overriding with point-stencil and omitting, and those results are
>
> a) without error message
> b) looking as expected when compared to the version with visible \mf
>
> Either way, I find the stopping position of the hairpin somewhat
> strange/early, but it is exactly the same as it would be without
> override.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
Sorry if I was not clear enough.
I was looking for a method to circumvent the midi-error, but keep the
visual output.
Let me be a bit more verbose:
The following gives nice visual output, though triggers an error with midi:
{ c'1\> c' c'\! }
Inserting an expicit Dynamic resolves the midi-error, though, the
Hairpin starts at the right of the DynamicText, ofcourse.
{ c'1\mf\> c' c'\! }
Trying to remove the printed DynamicText via \hide or \omit or
#point-stencil, leaves the Hairpin untouched, i.e. starting to the
right of the now invisible or non-existent DynamicText-stencil.
(Little different with \hide)
{ c'1-\hide\mf\> c' c'\! }
{ c'1-\omit\mf\> c' c'\! }
{ c'1-\tweak #'stencil #point-stencil \mf\> c' c'\! }
The only way I've found to get back the output without the explicit
DynamicText was to set Hairpins left-bound to DynamicText-parent (and
setting DynamicText.stencil #f ofcourse).
{
c'1\mf -\tweak #'after-line-breaking
#(lambda (grob)
(let ((dyn-txt (ly:spanner-bound grob LEFT)))
(ly:grob-set-property! dyn-txt 'stencil #f)
(ly:spanner-set-bound! grob LEFT
(ly:grob-parent dyn-txt X
\>
c' c'\!
}
Cheers,
Harm
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Re: /omit and /hide, was Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Patrick or Cynthia Karl writes: > On May 18, 2014, at 12:28:22 +0200, David Kastrup wrote: > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 12:28:22 +0200 >> From: David Kastrup >> To: Thomas Morley >> Subject: Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error >> >> >> If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding >> the stencil with point-stencil will work? > > Shouldn't \omit and \hide appear in the Notation Reference Manual, in > particular in Appendix E LilyPond command index? I cannot find either > command, neither in Appendix E nor by searching the Notation Manual. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/visibility-of-objects#index-_005comit> is to be found in the index http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/lilypond-index#lilypond-index_cp_symbol-16> under \omit -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: /omit and /hide, was Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Am 18.05.2014 16:33, schrieb Patrick or Cynthia Karl: On May 18, 2014, at 12:28:22 +0200, David Kastrup wrote: Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 12:28:22 +0200 From: David Kastrup To: Thomas Morley Subject: Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding the stencil with point-stencil will work? Shouldn't \omit and \hide appear in the Notation Reference Manual, in particular in Appendix E LilyPond command index? I cannot find either command, neither in Appendix E nor by searching the Notation Manual. I which manual version did you look? http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/available-music-functions#index-omit-1 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
/omit and /hide, was Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
On May 18, 2014, at 12:28:22 +0200, David Kastrup wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 12:28:22 +0200 > From: David Kastrup > To: Thomas Morley > Subject: Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error > > > If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding > the stencil with point-stencil will work? Shouldn't \omit and \hide appear in the Notation Reference Manual, in particular in Appendix E LilyPond command index? I cannot find either command, neither in Appendix E nor by searching the Notation Manual. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Thomas Morley writes:
> 2014-05-18 12:28 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
>> Thomas Morley writes:
>>
>>> 2014-05-18 7:20 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
Knute Snortum writes:
> My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a
> dynamic
> marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the
> dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work?
>>>
>>> Omitting the DynamicText.stencil will not cause the Hairpin to start as
>>> usual.
>>> Resetting the parent of the Hairpin my work:
>>>
>>> \version "2.18.0"
>>>
>>> \score
>>> {
>>> {
>>> \once \override Hairpin.after-line-breaking =
>>> #(lambda (grob)
>>> (let ((dyn-txt (ly:spanner-bound grob LEFT)))
>>>(ly:grob-set-property! dyn-txt 'stencil #f)
>>>(ly:spanner-set-bound! grob LEFT (ly:grob-parent dyn-txt X
>>> c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
>>> }
>>> \layout {}
>>> \midi {}
>>> }
>>
>> If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding
>> the stencil with point-stencil will work?
>
> Using point-stencil doesn't work either.
>
> \version "2.18.0"
>
> \score
> {
> {
>\override DynamicText.stencil = #point-stencil
> c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
> }
> \layout {}
> \midi {}
> }
Ok, I'll bite: what does "doesn't work" mean? I see the same results
for overriding with point-stencil and omitting, and those results are
a) without error message
b) looking as expected when compared to the version with visible \mf
Either way, I find the stopping position of the hairpin somewhat
strange/early, but it is exactly the same as it would be without
override.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
2014-05-18 12:28 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
> Thomas Morley writes:
>
>> 2014-05-18 7:20 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
>>> Knute Snortum writes:
>>>
My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a dynamic
marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the
dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work?
>>
>> Omitting the DynamicText.stencil will not cause the Hairpin to start as
>> usual.
>> Resetting the parent of the Hairpin my work:
>>
>> \version "2.18.0"
>>
>> \score
>> {
>> {
>> \once \override Hairpin.after-line-breaking =
>> #(lambda (grob)
>> (let ((dyn-txt (ly:spanner-bound grob LEFT)))
>>(ly:grob-set-property! dyn-txt 'stencil #f)
>>(ly:spanner-set-bound! grob LEFT (ly:grob-parent dyn-txt X
>> c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
>> }
>> \layout {}
>> \midi {}
>> }
>
> If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding
> the stencil with point-stencil will work?
>
> --
> David Kastrup
Using point-stencil doesn't work either.
\version "2.18.0"
\score
{
{
\override DynamicText.stencil = #point-stencil
c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
}
\layout {}
\midi {}
}
Cheers,
Harm
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Thanks! The \omit works better than the \hide. Knute Snortum (via Gmail) On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Paul Morris wrote: > Knute Snortum wrote > > My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a > > dynamic > > marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the > > dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work? > > \version "2.18.2" > > \once \omit DynamicText c-\mf > > There's also \hide, but I think you want \omit, more on these in the > manuals: > > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/visibility-of-objects#index-_005chide > > HTH, > -Paul > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/MIDI-dynamics-parsing-error-tp162479p162523.html > Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Thomas Morley writes:
> 2014-05-18 7:20 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
>> Knute Snortum writes:
>>
>>> My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a dynamic
>>> marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the
>>> dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work?
>
> Omitting the DynamicText.stencil will not cause the Hairpin to start as usual.
> Resetting the parent of the Hairpin my work:
>
> \version "2.18.0"
>
> \score
> {
> {
> \once \override Hairpin.after-line-breaking =
> #(lambda (grob)
> (let ((dyn-txt (ly:spanner-bound grob LEFT)))
>(ly:grob-set-property! dyn-txt 'stencil #f)
>(ly:spanner-set-bound! grob LEFT (ly:grob-parent dyn-txt X
> c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
> }
> \layout {}
> \midi {}
> }
If \omit is too strong and \hide leaves too much space, maybe overriding
the stencil with point-stencil will work?
--
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
2014-05-18 7:20 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :
> Knute Snortum writes:
>
>> My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a dynamic
>> marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the
>> dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work?
>
> Anything wrong with
>
>
>
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
Omitting the DynamicText.stencil will not cause the Hairpin to start as usual.
Resetting the parent of the Hairpin my work:
\version "2.18.0"
\score
{
{
\once \override Hairpin.after-line-breaking =
#(lambda (grob)
(let ((dyn-txt (ly:spanner-bound grob LEFT)))
(ly:grob-set-property! dyn-txt 'stencil #f)
(ly:spanner-set-bound! grob LEFT (ly:grob-parent dyn-txt X
c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
}
\layout {}
\midi {}
}
Cheers,
Harm
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Knute Snortum writes:
> My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a dynamic
> marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the
> dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work?
Anything wrong with
\version "2.18.0"
\score
{
{
c'1-\omit\mf\> c' c'\!
}
\layout {}
\midi {}
}
--
David Kastrup
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Knute Snortum wrote > (De)crescendo with unspecified starting volume in MIDI. > > programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI. > continuing, cross fingers BTW, I've run into this type of error before as well (with Mutopia files), and hadn't taken the time to figure out the cause, so thanks for that! -Paul -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/MIDI-dynamics-parsing-error-tp162479p162524.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Knute Snortum wrote > My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a > dynamic > marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the > dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work? \version "2.18.2" \once \omit DynamicText c-\mf There's also \hide, but I think you want \omit, more on these in the manuals: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/visibility-of-objects#index-_005chide HTH, -Paul -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/MIDI-dynamics-parsing-error-tp162479p162523.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
On 05/17/2014 07:15 PM, Knute Snortum wrote:
My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a
dynamic marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I
can hide the dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax
that will work?
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
Here you go, Knute. Not tested with MIDI, but the appearance should be
what you want:
\version "2.19.6"
{
\once \hide Staff.DynamicText c'1\mf\> c' c'\!
}
Cheers,
Colin
--
I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both
hands.
You need to be able to throw something back.
-Maya Angelou, poet (1928- )
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
My situation is I need to transcribe a crescendo starting without a dynamic
marking. If I put in a \mf then I don't get warning. If I can hide the
dynamic mark, all will be fine. Is there a \hide syntax that will work?
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Conor Cook wrote:
> It is my impression that a decrescendo starts where you are and gets
> quieter. Does Lilypond not have a default (e.g. mf) MIDI dynamic like
> Sibelius?
>
> Best,
> Conor Cook
>
> On May 16, 2014, at 4:32 PM, Simon Albrecht
> wrote:
>
> I recently encountered this problem in a composition of my own and just
> ignored the warning, because the MIDI dynamics rendition did not have any
> importance for me.
> As a matter of fact, this notation may seem illogical, but there are many
> occurences of it, and many have asked what it means. I find it pretty
> straightforward, once you have an idea of its use: With a decrescendo, its
> meaning is similar to an accent, only perhaps more gentle and espressivo;
> that is to say, start a little above the dynamic you previously had and
> return to it by means of a diminuendo. With a crescendo, there is some
> ambiguity: either you return to the dynamic value from before the
> crescendo, or you stay where you arrived through the crescendo. Other
> interpretations may be possible, but I don’t think unambiguity needs to be
> avoided, since it’s a question of style also: in the 18th century and
> beginning 19th, dynamics are specified with increasing exactness, but for a
> long time remain incomprehensive and from later perspective leave gaps,
> which the performer is required to fill himself. And it would be inadequate
> to eliminate these seeming inconsequencies, which are typical. As I said, I
> was very happy to have this in a composition of my own (which was actually
> kept in some early 19th century style) and it expressed exactly what I
> meant. So don’t be over-correct :-)
>
> Simon Albrecht
>
> Am 16.05.2014 18:15, schrieb Phil Holmes:
>
> Well, LilyPond has the same problem as a performer would. If you're
> crescendoing, at what dynamic are you starting from?
>
> --
> Phil Holmes
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Knute Snortum
> *To:* lilypond-user@gnu.org
> *Sent:* Friday, May 16, 2014 3:21 PM
> *Subject:* MIDI dynamics parsing error
>
> Short Description: I get an error from LilyPond that it can't figure out
> the MIDI volume to start a crescendo with in some situations.
>
> Details: The error message is...
>
> (De)crescendo with unspecified starting volume in MIDI.
> { bf4 %{ \mf %}
> \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf
> gf' f ef ) }
>
> programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
> continuing, cross fingers
>
>
> The source code is...
>
> \version "2.18.2"
> \language "english"
>
> upper = \relative c'''' {
> | gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
> gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
> |
> <<
> { bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf'
> f ef ) }
> \\
> { 16 q q q a4 16 q q q a4 }
> >>
> }
>
> \score {
> \new Staff = "up" {
> \clef treble
> \upper
> }
> \layout {
> }
> \midi {
> \tempo 4 = 120
> }
> }
>
> If you uncomment the \mf in line nine, the problem goes away. At first
> I thought this was because of the two voices, but when I compile the
> \relative part by itself, that is, no \score section, there is no warning.
>
> I'm assuming this is a bug in LilyPond and adding the \mf dynamic mark
> is a workaround. If not, please show me the correct way to do this.
>
> Since Mussorgsky didn't write the \mf, I want to hide it, but \hide
> Dynamics doesn't seem to work. How would I do this, or is there a better
> way around this problem?
>
> Knute Snortum
> (via Gmail)
>
> --
> ___
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> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
>
> ___
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> listlilypond-user@gnu.orghttps://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
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>
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>
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
It is my impression that a decrescendo starts where you are and gets quieter.
Does Lilypond not have a default (e.g. mf) MIDI dynamic like Sibelius?
Best,
Conor Cook
> On May 16, 2014, at 4:32 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:
>
> I recently encountered this problem in a composition of my own and just
> ignored the warning, because the MIDI dynamics rendition did not have any
> importance for me.
> As a matter of fact, this notation may seem illogical, but there are many
> occurences of it, and many have asked what it means. I find it pretty
> straightforward, once you have an idea of its use: With a decrescendo, its
> meaning is similar to an accent, only perhaps more gentle and espressivo;
> that is to say, start a little above the dynamic you previously had and
> return to it by means of a diminuendo. With a crescendo, there is some
> ambiguity: either you return to the dynamic value from before the crescendo,
> or you stay where you arrived through the crescendo. Other interpretations
> may be possible, but I don’t think unambiguity needs to be avoided, since
> it’s a question of style also: in the 18th century and beginning 19th,
> dynamics are specified with increasing exactness, but for a long time remain
> incomprehensive and from later perspective leave gaps, which the performer is
> required to fill himself. And it would be inadequate to eliminate these
> seeming inconsequencies, which are typical. As I said, I was very happy to
> have this in a composition of my own (which was actually kept in some early
> 19th century style) and it expressed exactly what I meant. So don’t be
> over-correct :-)
>
> Simon Albrecht
>
> Am 16.05.2014 18:15, schrieb Phil Holmes:
>> Well, LilyPond has the same problem as a performer would. If you're
>> crescendoing, at what dynamic are you starting from?
>>
>> --
>> Phil Holmes
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Knute Snortum
>> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 3:21 PM
>> Subject: MIDI dynamics parsing error
>>
>> Short Description: I get an error from LilyPond that it can't figure out the
>> MIDI volume to start a crescendo with in some situations.
>>
>> Details: The error message is...
>>
>> (De)crescendo with unspecified starting volume in MIDI.
>> { bf4 %{ \mf %}
>> \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f
>> ef ) }
>>
>> programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
>> continuing, cross fingers
>>
>> The source code is...
>>
>> \version "2.18.2"
>> \language "english"
>>
>> upper = \relative c'''' {
>> | gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
>> gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
>> |
>> <<
>> { bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f
>> ef ) }
>> \\
>> { 16 q q q a4 16 q q q a4 }
>> >>
>> }
>>
>> \score {
>> \new Staff = "up" {
>> \clef treble
>> \upper
>> }
>> \layout {
>> }
>> \midi {
>> \tempo 4 = 120
>> }
>> }
>>
>> If you uncomment the \mf in line nine, the problem goes away. At first I
>> thought this was because of the two voices, but when I compile the \relative
>> part by itself, that is, no \score section, there is no warning.
>>
>> I'm assuming this is a bug in LilyPond and adding the \mf dynamic mark is a
>> workaround. If not, please show me the correct way to do this.
>>
>> Since Mussorgsky didn't write the \mf, I want to hide it, but \hide Dynamics
>> doesn't seem to work. How would I do this, or is there a better way around
>> this problem?
>>
>> Knute Snortum
>> (via Gmail)
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>>
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>
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
I recently encountered this problem in a composition of my own and just
ignored the warning, because the MIDI dynamics rendition did not have
any importance for me.
As a matter of fact, this notation may seem illogical, but there are
many occurences of it, and many have asked what it means. I find it
pretty straightforward, once you have an idea of its use: With a
decrescendo, its meaning is similar to an accent, only perhaps more
gentle and espressivo; that is to say, start a little above the dynamic
you previously had and return to it by means of a diminuendo. With a
crescendo, there is some ambiguity: either you return to the dynamic
value from before the crescendo, or you stay where you arrived through
the crescendo. Other interpretations may be possible, but I don't think
unambiguity needs to be avoided, since it's a question of style also: in
the 18th century and beginning 19th, dynamics are specified with
increasing exactness, but for a long time remain incomprehensive and
from later perspective leave gaps, which the performer is required to
fill himself. And it would be inadequate to eliminate these seeming
inconsequencies, which are typical. As I said, I was very happy to have
this in a composition of my own (which was actually kept in some early
19th century style) and it expressed exactly what I meant. So don't be
over-correct :-)
Simon Albrecht
Am 16.05.2014 18:15, schrieb Phil Holmes:
Well, LilyPond has the same problem as a performer would. If you're
crescendoing, at what dynamic are you starting from?
--
Phil Holmes
- Original Message -
*From:* Knute Snortum <mailto:ksnor...@gmail.com>
*To:* lilypond-user@gnu.org <mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org>
*Sent:* Friday, May 16, 2014 3:21 PM
*Subject:* MIDI dynamics parsing error
Short Description: I get an error from LilyPond that it can't
figure out the MIDI volume to start a crescendo with in some
situations.
Details: The error message is...
(De)crescendo with unspecified starting volume in MIDI.
{ bf4 %{ \mf %}
\< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) }
programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
continuing, cross fingers
The source code is...
\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
upper = \relative c'''' {
| gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
|
<<
{ bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 (
\sf gf' f ef ) }
\\
{ 16 q q q a4 16 q q q a4 }
>>
}
\score {
\new Staff = "up" {
\clef treble
\upper
}
\layout {
}
\midi {
\tempo 4 = 120
}
}
If you uncomment the \mf in line nine, the problem goes away. At
first I thought this was because of the two voices, but when I
compile the \relative part by itself, that is, no \score section,
there is no warning.
I'm assuming this is a bug in LilyPond and adding the \mf dynamic
mark is a workaround. If not, please show me the correct way to do
this.
Since Mussorgsky didn't write the \mf, I want to hide it, but
\hide Dynamics doesn't seem to work. How would I do this, or is
there a better way around this problem?
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
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Re: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Well, LilyPond has the same problem as a performer would. If you're
crescendoing, at what dynamic are you starting from?
--
Phil Holmes
- Original Message -
From: Knute Snortum
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 3:21 PM
Subject: MIDI dynamics parsing error
Short Description: I get an error from LilyPond that it can't figure out the
MIDI volume to start a crescendo with in some situations.
Details: The error message is...
(De)crescendo with unspecified starting volume in MIDI.
{ bf4 %{ \mf %}
\< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf'
f ef ) }
programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
continuing, cross fingers
The source code is...
\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
upper = \relative c'''' {
| gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
|
<<
{ bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f
ef ) }
\\
{ 16 q q q a4 16 q q q a4 }
>>
}
\score {
\new Staff = "up" {
\clef treble
\upper
}
\layout {
}
\midi {
\tempo 4 = 120
}
}
If you uncomment the \mf in line nine, the problem goes away. At first I
thought this was because of the two voices, but when I compile the \relative
part by itself, that is, no \score section, there is no warning.
I'm assuming this is a bug in LilyPond and adding the \mf dynamic mark is a
workaround. If not, please show me the correct way to do this.
Since Mussorgsky didn't write the \mf, I want to hide it, but \hide Dynamics
doesn't seem to work. How would I do this, or is there a better way around
this problem?
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
--
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MIDI dynamics parsing error
Short Description: I get an error from LilyPond that it can't figure out
the MIDI volume to start a crescendo with in some situations.
Details: The error message is...
(De)crescendo with unspecified starting volume in MIDI.
{ bf4 %{ \mf %}
\< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf'
f ef ) }
programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
continuing, cross fingers
The source code is...
\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
upper = \relative c {
| gf16-. \f ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
gf-. \sf ef-. df-. cf-. bf ( \sf df cf af )
|
<<
{ bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf' f ef ) bf4 %{ \mf %} \< a16 ( \sf gf'
f ef ) }
\\
{ 16 q q q a4 16 q q q a4 }
>>
}
\score {
\new Staff = "up" {
\clef treble
\upper
}
\layout {
}
\midi {
\tempo 4 = 120
}
}
If you uncomment the \mf in line nine, the problem goes away. At first I
thought this was because of the two voices, but when I compile the
\relative part by itself, that is, no \score section, there is no warning.
I'm assuming this is a bug in LilyPond and adding the \mf dynamic mark is a
workaround. If not, please show me the correct way to do this.
Since Mussorgsky didn't write the \mf, I want to hide it, but \hide
Dynamics doesn't seem to work. How would I do this, or is there a better
way around this problem?
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
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