Re: Tuplet number collision when slurred

[Knute Snortum]

Not exactly what you asked for, but I think this looks better and is
less confusing:

{\clef alto \tupletDown \tuplet 3/2 {a8-3( g-2 f-1)}}

---
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 9:14 AM Jean-Julien Fleck
 wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I've got into a strange behavior of a \tuplet that can be seen with this code:
>
> {\clef alto \tuplet 3/2 {a8-3( g-2 f-1)}}
>
> to be compared with the same without the slur
>
> {\clef alto \tuplet 3/2 {a8-3 g-2 f-1}}
>
> for which there is no collision between fingering and tuplet number.
>
> In my little piece, I will just use \once\omit TupletNumber and I would be 
> done, but I think it could be a bug some would like to investigate (even if 
> it seems quite rare to occur).
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> JJ Fleck
> Physique et Informatique
> PCSI1 Lycée Kléber

Tuplet number collision when slurred

[Jean-Julien Fleck]

Hello,

I've got into a strange behavior of a \tuplet that can be seen with this
code:

{\clef alto \tuplet 3/2 {a8-3( g-2 f-1)}}

to be compared with the same without the slur

{\clef alto \tuplet 3/2 {a8-3 g-2 f-1}}

for which there is no collision between fingering and tuplet number.

In my little piece, I will just use \once\omit TupletNumber and I would be
done, but I think it could be a bug some would like to investigate (even if
it seems quite rare to occur).

Cheers,

-- 
JJ Fleck
Physique et Informatique
PCSI1 Lycée Kléber

Re: Tuplet number note size/font

[Andrew Bernard]

Sorry. I am guilty of using imprecise language. I use custom notehead 
stencils to achieve the look of the notes we want. Not a replacement 
custom font such as yours. [It's very successful but I confess I have 
never been able to make good breve noteheads.]


This sort of thing:

% for unfilled notes
sOne =
\markup
\override #'(filled . #t)
\path #0.01
#'((moveto    0.00  -0.35)
   (lineto    0.08  -0.28)
   (curveto   0.08  -0.32   0.10  -0.33   0.18  -0.33)
   (curveto   0.48  -0.33   1.03   0.08   1.03   0.28)
   (curveto   1.03   0.34   0.94   0.33   0.93   0.33)
   (curveto   0.65   0.33   0.08  -0.05   0.08  -0.28)
   (lineto    0.00  -0.35)
   (curveto   0.00   0.00   0.55   0.55   0.90   0.55)
   (curveto   1.00   0.55   1.10   0.50   1.10   0.35)
   (curveto   1.10   0.00   0.55  -0.55   0.20  -0.55)
   (curveto   0.05  -0.55   0.00  -0.45   0.00  -0.35))

And using this in the stencil.

Andrew

On 20/9/19 12:07 pm, Abraham Lee wrote:


Sorry, not a direct answer to your question, but how are you using a 
custom font for the notes? I’ve not had the problem with my fonts you 
are describing. Anything I can help with?




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Re: Tuplet number note size/font

[Abraham Lee]

Hey, Andrew!

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 6:43 PM Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> I am trying to use notes in tuplet numbers, fairly standard. I use a
> custom font for my scores and this may be interfering, but when I use
> say 16. or 8 for the note the stem length is almost zero and it looks ugly.
>
> How can I get access to the font used in tuplet numbers for the notes
> when you use them, as per the non-default tuplet number examples?


Sorry, not a direct answer to your question, but how are you using a custom
font for the notes? I’ve not had the problem with my fonts you are
describing. Anything I can help with?

Best,
Abraham

>
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Tuplet number note size/font

[Andrew Bernard]

I am trying to use notes in tuplet numbers, fairly standard. I use a 
custom font for my scores and this may be interfering, but when I use 
say 16. or 8 for the note the stem length is almost zero and it looks ugly.


How can I get access to the font used in tuplet numbers for the notes 
when you use them, as per the non-default tuplet number examples?


Andrew



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Re: moving tuplet number nearer to beam

[Werner LEMBERG]

> padding (for TupletNumber) only comes into effect for Y-offset when
> considering kneed beams:
> 
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> {
>   \tuplet 5/2 { b8[ b'' b b'' b] }
>   \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #1
>   \tuplet 5/2 { b8[ b'' b b'' b] }
> }
> 
> 
> Otherwise, the computation is simply the average of the end
> positions of the bracket (whether they are visible or not):
> 
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> {
>   \time 3/4
>   \tuplet 3/2 { d'4 f' e' }
>   \tuplet 3/2 { d'8 f' e' }
>   \override TupletBracket.positions = #'(5 . 4)
>   \tuplet 3/2 { d'4 f' e' }
>   \tuplet 3/2 { d'8 f' e' }
> }
> 
> 
> As such, the solution is to tweak the TupletBracket:
> 
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> <<
>   \new Staff \with {
> \magnifyStaff #(magstep -5)
> \override TupletBracket.padding = #(* 1.1 (magstep -5))
>   } { \tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] } }
>   \new Staff {
> \tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] } }
>>> 
> 
> 
> Note that 1.1 is the default value for padding, so I have simply
> reduced its value proportional to the desired magnification.

Thanks a lot for your analysis!  Some observations.

(1) I consider the `padding' property of the `TupletNumber' grob a
misnomer.  It should be rather something like
`kneed-beam-padding'.  Additionally, it should be added to the
`Tuplet_number' interface (and to `define-grob-properties.scm') so
that it gets documented properly.

(2) The units used for the two padding values are different, see
attached example.  Is there a reason for it?

I could provide a fix for (1), but I'm rather clueless for (2).


Werner
\paper {
  line-width = 10\cm
  indent = 0\cm
}

\version "2.19.82"

\markup "TupletNumber.padding vs. TupletBracket.padding"

{
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  \time 3/2
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 0" b b b b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #1
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"1, 0" b b b b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #1
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 1" b b b b] } |

  \break

  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 0" b'' b b'' b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #1
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"1, 0" b'' b b'' b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #1
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 1" b'' b b'' b] } |

  \break

  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 0" b b b b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #2
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"2, 0" b b b b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #2
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 2" b b b b] } |

  \break

  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 0" b'' b b'' b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #2
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #0
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"2, 0" b'' b b'' b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #0
  \once \override TupletBracket.padding = #2
  \tuplet 5/4 { b8[^"0, 2" b'' b b'' b] } |
}
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Re: moving tuplet number nearer to beam

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-04-01 1:16 pm, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

Folks,


if I use `\magnifyStaff', the tuplet number is too far away from the
beam.  How can I move it nearer to the beam?  Looking into
`tuplet-number.cc' I see a `padding' property with a default value of
0.5 (and which is apparently completely undocumented).  However, doing
something like

  \override TupletNumber.padding = #4

has zero effect...


padding (for TupletNumber) only comes into effect for Y-offset when 
considering kneed beams:



\version "2.19.82"
{
  \tuplet 5/2 { b8[ b'' b b'' b] }
  \once \override TupletNumber.padding = #1
  \tuplet 5/2 { b8[ b'' b b'' b] }
}


Otherwise, the computation is simply the average of the end positions of 
the bracket (whether they are visible or not):



\version "2.19.82"
{
  \time 3/4
  \tuplet 3/2 { d'4 f' e' }
  \tuplet 3/2 { d'8 f' e' }
  \override TupletBracket.positions = #'(5 . 4)
  \tuplet 3/2 { d'4 f' e' }
  \tuplet 3/2 { d'8 f' e' }
}


As such, the solution is to tweak the TupletBracket:


\version "2.19.82"
<<
  \new Staff \with {
\magnifyStaff #(magstep -5)
\override TupletBracket.padding = #(* 1.1 (magstep -5))
  } { \tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] } }
  \new Staff {
\tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] } }





Note that 1.1 is the default value for padding, so I have simply reduced 
its value proportional to the desired magnification.



-- Aaron Hill

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Re: moving tuplet number nearer to beam

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> if I use `\magnifyStaff', the tuplet number is too far away from
>> the beam.  How can I move it nearer to the beam?  Looking into
>> `tuplet-number.cc' I see a `padding' property with a default value
>> of 0.5 (and which is apparently completely undocumented).
> 
> There's a few ways to pad out the tuplet number depending on how you
> want to approach the padding.  Does this help?
> 
> <<
>   \new Staff \with {
>     \magnifyStaff #(magstep -5)
>   } {
>     % \tweak padding #1
>     \override TupletNumber.Y-offset = #2.3

This works, thanks.  However, this is an ad-hoc value for a certain
situation.  I would rather like to really adjust the padding...

What other ways do you suggest?  `\tweak padding' doesn't work for me.


Werner
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Re: moving tuplet number nearer to beam

[Ben]

On 4/1/2019 4:16 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

Folks,


if I use `\magnifyStaff', the tuplet number is too far away from the
beam.  How can I move it nearer to the beam?  Looking into
`tuplet-number.cc' I see a `padding' property with a default value of
0.5 (and which is apparently completely undocumented).  However, doing
something like

   \override TupletNumber.padding = #4

has zero effect...


 Werner


Hi Werner,

There's a few ways to pad out the tuplet number depending on how you 
want to approach the padding. Does this help?


<<
  \new Staff \with {
    \magnifyStaff #(magstep -5)
  } {
    % \tweak padding #1
    \override TupletNumber.Y-offset = #2.3
    \tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] }
  }

  \new Staff {
    \tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] }
  }
>>

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moving tuplet number nearer to beam

[Werner LEMBERG]

Folks,


if I use `\magnifyStaff', the tuplet number is too far away from the
beam.  How can I move it nearer to the beam?  Looking into
`tuplet-number.cc' I see a `padding' property with a default value of
0.5 (and which is apparently completely undocumented).  However, doing
something like

  \override TupletNumber.padding = #4

has zero effect...


Werner
<<
  \new Staff \with {
\magnifyStaff #(magstep -5)
  } { \tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] } }

  \new Staff {
\tuplet 3/2 { f'8[ g' a'] } }
>>
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how to get y-extent for tuplet number

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear community,
I have a problem with the spacing between the piano staff for the left hand
and the violin staff.
I would like to increase the distance.
Off course, I could do it generally, but I would like to do it for just a
few measures.
I tried it by changing the minimun-Y-extent for tupletnumber and tuplet
bracket, but this didn't work.
Is there another way to get the desired output?
Thanks for Your help!
Stefan
 % SNUPPET
\version "2.18.2"
% \include"bibliotheken.ly"
% definitions
\include"deutsch.ly"
re = { \change Staff = rechts }
li = { \change Staff = links }

rokt = #(define-music-function (parser location x) (ly:music?)
 #{ \re
\context Voice <<$x \transpose c c' { $x } >>
 #})
lokt = #(define-music-function (parser location x) (ly:music?)
 #{ \li
\context Voice <<$x \transpose c c, { $x } >>
 #})

rechts = { \ottava #2
 \tupletSpan 4 \tuplet 5/4 { \rokt h'''16 \lokt  as'''8 g'''  fis'''16
\rokt b''' \li a'''  \rokt as'''8
 \lokt  f'''16
   \rokt b'''4 \rokt h'''16 \li fis''' g''' \rokt b''' \li a''' }
}

links = {  \ottava #1 s1 }
Violin = { \ottava #1 h'''8( as'''8  g''' b''' a''' as''' f''' h''' )}
\score {
<<
\new PianoStaff  = "Klavier"
<<
\new Staff= "rechts" { \rechts }
   \new Staff = "links" { \links} >>

\new Staff \Violin
>>
}
% ENDE SNIPPET
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Re: Tuplet number and articulation

[Ben]

On 1/27/2018 10:29 AM, Thomas Morley wrote:

2018-01-27 15:26 GMT+01:00 Ben <soundsfromso...@gmail.com>:

On 1/26/2018 11:32 PM, Tiago Pereira wrote:

Hi, everybody!

In the example below, the tuplet number is moved upwards when the
articulation is added. How to prevent this from happening?

\relative c' {
 \stemUp
 \tuplet 3/2 4 {
 c8 d e f g a b c d e f g
 c,,8^> d e f^> g a b^> c d e^> f g }
}

Thanks anyway.


If you decide to break out the triplets and write them separately, you could
easily create overrides for each number and move them to taste, FYI.

\override TupletNumber #'Y-offset = #3

etc.

But, it's not as easy to do that when they are all grouped together the way
they are currently (3/2 4)


Why not:

\relative c' {
 \stemUp
 \override Script.outside-staff-priority = 0
 \tuplet 3/2 4 {
 c8 d e f g a b c d e f g
 c,,8^> d e f^> g a b^> c d e^> f g }
}

Cheers,
   Harm


Hi Harm!

So strange, I initially thought about staff priority and tried 
overriding it in Frescobaldi but I noticed no change in my output, so I 
figured maybe there was a conflict with stemUp or something. Turns out, 
it was user error on my part :) Just tried your code and it does the 
trick. I must have been half asleep or something.


Your solution is easy and works great, thank you!


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Re: Tuplet number and articulation

[Thomas Morley]

2018-01-27 15:26 GMT+01:00 Ben <soundsfromso...@gmail.com>:
> On 1/26/2018 11:32 PM, Tiago Pereira wrote:
>
> Hi, everybody!
>
> In the example below, the tuplet number is moved upwards when the
> articulation is added. How to prevent this from happening?
>
> \relative c' {
> \stemUp
> \tuplet 3/2 4 {
> c8 d e f g a b c d e f g
> c,,8^> d e f^> g a b^> c d e^> f g }
> }
>
> Thanks anyway.
>
>
> If you decide to break out the triplets and write them separately, you could
> easily create overrides for each number and move them to taste, FYI.
>
> \override TupletNumber #'Y-offset = #3
>
> etc.
>
> But, it's not as easy to do that when they are all grouped together the way
> they are currently (3/2 4)


Why not:

\relative c' {
\stemUp
\override Script.outside-staff-priority = 0
\tuplet 3/2 4 {
c8 d e f g a b c d e f g
c,,8^> d e f^> g a b^> c d e^> f g }
}

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Tuplet number and articulation

[Ben]

On 1/26/2018 11:32 PM, Tiago Pereira wrote:

Hi, everybody!

In the example below, the tuplet number is moved upwards when the 
articulation is added. How to prevent this from happening?


\relative c' {
    \stemUp
    \tuplet 3/2 4 {
    c8 d e f g a b c d e f g
    c,,8^> d e f^> g a b^> c d e^> f g }
}

Thanks anyway.



If you decide to break out the triplets and write them separately, you 
could easily create overrides for each number and move them to taste, FYI.


\override TupletNumber #'Y-offset = #3

etc.

But, it's not as easy to do that when they are all grouped together the 
way they are currently (3/2 4)
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Re: Tuplet number and articulation

[Ben]

On 1/26/2018 11:32 PM, Tiago Pereira wrote:

Hi, everybody!

In the example below, the tuplet number is moved upwards when the 
articulation is added. How to prevent this from happening?


\relative c' {
    \stemUp
    \tuplet 3/2 4 {
    c8 d e f g a b c d e f g
    c,,8^> d e f^> g a b^> c d e^> f g }
}

Thanks anyway.



Just curious, but why don't you have the accent marks below the notes?
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Tuplet number and articulation

[Tiago Pereira]

Hi, everybody!
In the example below, the tuplet number is moved upwards when the articulation 
is added. How to prevent this from happening?

\relative c' {
    \stemUp
    \tuplet 3/2 4 {
    c8 d e f g a b c d e f g
    c,,8^> d e f^> g a b^> c d e^> f g }
}
Thanks anyway.
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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi David,

Thank you for clarifying. This is all good to know.

Interestingly I uniformly set horizontal tuplet brackets so the vertical
offset for slanting brackets never occurred to me in my small utility
function.

Andrew



On 18 April 2017 at 22:33, David Nalesnik  wrote:

>
> No, I didn't say that.  You can certainly move the number, but the gap
> in the bracket will not follow--hence the whiteout in your function.
> (The number also will need some vertical adjustment when the bracket
> slopes.)
>
> As for independence at line breaks, you could plug your overrides into
> the function I gave above,use \alterBroken, or use the framework
> suggested at http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/extending/
> difficult-tweaks.
>
>
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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[David Nalesnik]

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Andrew Bernard
<andrew.bern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> I am curious about what you say here.
>
> On 18 April 2017 at 02:24, David Nalesnik <david.nales...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It isn't possible to shift the number within the bracket and have the gap
>> adjust, but you can lengthen the broken bracket:
>>
>
> This is a function I use all the time, and it seems to work for me.
>
> tupletNumberShift =
> #(define-music-function (offset)
>(number?)
>" Move tuplet number across.
>Offset is from left of tuplet bracket.
>"
>#{
>  \once \override TupletNumber.whiteout = ##t
>  \once \override Score.TupletNumber.layer = #3
>  \once \override TupletNumber.X-offset = $offset
>  \once \override TupletNumber.X-extent = #empty-interval
>#})
>
> But this will only work for the first part. Are you actually saying, more
> precisely, that it is not possible to shift the number in the broken part? I
> was just wanting to clarify for anybody referring to this thread in the
> future.


No, I didn't say that.  You can certainly move the number, but the gap
in the bracket will not follow--hence the whiteout in your function.
(The number also will need some vertical adjustment when the bracket
slopes.)

As for independence at line breaks, you could plug your overrides into
the function I gave above,use \alterBroken, or use the framework
suggested at 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/extending/difficult-tweaks.

David

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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi David,

I am curious about what you say here.

On 18 April 2017 at 02:24, David Nalesnik <david.nales...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> It isn't possible to shift the number within the bracket and have the gap
> adjust, but you can lengthen the broken bracket:
>
>
This is a function I use all the time, and it seems to work for me.

tupletNumberShift =
#(define-music-function (offset)
   (number?)
   " Move tuplet number across.
   Offset is from left of tuplet bracket.
   "
   #{
 \once \override TupletNumber.whiteout = ##t
 \once \override Score.TupletNumber.layer = #3
 \once \override TupletNumber.X-offset = $offset
 \once \override TupletNumber.X-extent = #empty-interval
   #})

But this will only work for the first part. Are you actually saying, more
precisely, that it is not possible to shift the number in the broken part?
I was just wanting to clarify for anybody referring to this thread in the
future.

Andrew
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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo]

> On Apr 17, 2017, at 11:24 AM, David Nalesnik <david.nales...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Juan,
> 
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo 
> <jccerri...@gmail.com <mailto:jccerri...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>> On Apr 12, 2017, at 8:38 AM, Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:thomasmorle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> It's not clear to me what you want. Could you post an image faked by a
>> graphic program?
> 
> 
> Sorry if I was not very clear describing what I’m looking for. 
> I wonder if there is a way of modifying the properties of the left and right 
> side of a broken tuplet (something similar to broken-left and broken right in 
> a TextSpanner).In the example provided, the innermost tuplet number of the 
> first bar needs to be shifted in order to be displayed correctly.
> 
> Here are two possible solutions to the placement problem of the default 
> lilypond output illustrated graphically:
> (the second voice in the example is only for breaking purposes)
> 
> The tuplet number displaced to the right only on the left broken side:
> 
> 
> It isn't possible to shift the number within the bracket and have the gap 
> adjust, but you can lengthen the broken bracket:
> 
> \version "2.19.57"
> 
> \layout {
>   ragged-right = ##t
>   \context {
> \Voice
> \remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
> \override Beam.breakable = ##t
> tupletFullLength = ##t
>   }
> }
> 
> <<
>   {
> \time 2/4
> r4
> \tuplet 3/2 {
>   c'4
>   \tweak TupletBracket.break-overshoot #'(-0.5 . 2)
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c' c' c' }
> }
>   }
>   \\
>   {
> r2 \break
> r2
>   }
> >> 
> 
> 
> The tuplet number omitted on the left broken side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is possible like so:
> 
> \version "2.19.57"
> 
> \layout {
>   ragged-right = ##t
>   \context {
> \Voice
> \remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
> \override Beam.breakable = ##t
> tupletFullLength = ##t
>   }
> }
> 
> #(define omit-tn-at-break
>(lambda (grob)
>  (let* ((rb (ly:spanner-bound grob RIGHT))
> (col (ly:item-get-column rb)))
>(if (= -1 (ly:item-break-dir col))
>(set! (ly:grob-property grob 'stencil) empty-stencil)
> <<
>   {
> \time 2/4
> r4
> \tuplet 3/2 {
>   c'4
>   \tweak TupletNumber.after-line-breaking #omit-tn-at-break
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c' c' c' }
> }
>   }
>   \\
>   {
> r2 \break
> r2
>   }
> >> 
> 
> %
> 
> Hope this is helpful—


Yes, this is exactly what I needed.
Many thanks!

jc

> 
> David

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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Juan,

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo <
jccerri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Apr 12, 2017, at 8:38 AM, Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> It's not clear to me what you want. Could you post an image faked by a
> graphic program?
>
>
> Sorry if I was not very clear describing what I’m looking for.
> I wonder if there is a way of modifying the properties of the left and
> right side of a broken tuplet (something similar to broken-left and broken
> right in a TextSpanner).In the example provided, the innermost tuplet
> number of the first bar needs to be shifted in order to be displayed
> correctly.
>
> Here are two possible solutions to the placement problem of the default
> lilypond output illustrated graphically:
> (the second voice in the example is only for breaking purposes)
>
> The tuplet number displaced to the right only on the left broken side:
>

It isn't possible to shift the number within the bracket and have the gap
adjust, but you can lengthen the broken bracket:

\version "2.19.57"

\layout {
  ragged-right = ##t
  \context {
\Voice
\remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
\override Beam.breakable = ##t
tupletFullLength = ##t
  }
}

<<
  {
\time 2/4
r4
\tuplet 3/2 {
  c'4
  \tweak TupletBracket.break-overshoot #'(-0.5 . 2)
  \tuplet 3/2 { c' c' c' }
}
  }
  \\
  {
r2 \break
r2
  }
>>


> The tuplet number omitted on the left broken side.
>
>
>
This is possible like so:

\version "2.19.57"

\layout {
  ragged-right = ##t
  \context {
\Voice
\remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
\override Beam.breakable = ##t
tupletFullLength = ##t
  }
}

#(define omit-tn-at-break
   (lambda (grob)
 (let* ((rb (ly:spanner-bound grob RIGHT))
(col (ly:item-get-column rb)))
   (if (= -1 (ly:item-break-dir col))
   (set! (ly:grob-property grob 'stencil) empty-stencil)
<<
  {
\time 2/4
r4
\tuplet 3/2 {
  c'4
  \tweak TupletNumber.after-line-breaking #omit-tn-at-break
  \tuplet 3/2 { c' c' c' }
}
  }
  \\
  {
r2 \break
r2
  }
>>

%

Hope this is helpful--

David
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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo]

Hello,

> On Apr 12, 2017, at 8:38 AM, Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's not clear to me what you want. Could you post an image faked by a
> graphic program?


Sorry if I was not very clear describing what I’m looking for. 
I wonder if there is a way of modifying the properties of the left and right 
side of a broken tuplet (something similar to broken-left and broken right in a 
TextSpanner).In the example provided, the innermost tuplet number of the first 
bar needs to be shifted in order to be displayed correctly.

Here are two possible solutions to the placement problem of the default 
lilypond output illustrated graphically:
(the second voice in the example is only for breaking purposes)

The tuplet number displaced to the right only on the left broken side:


The tuplet number omitted on the left broken side.



Any help would be greatly appreciated.
All best,

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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo]

> On Apr 12, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Andrew Bernard <andrew.bern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Juan,
> 
> I have various ways of doing this, but with all respect, this is really very 
> illegible engraving from the point of view of a player. Is this truly what 
> you want?

I am reproducing what the composer has written.  I see no issue with the tuplet 
over a barline (with us since Ives at least).  The placement of the tuplet 
number and the left side form of the bracket however are not ideal.

> Can you post a sketch of what is actually required? I half see what you are 
> getting at, but why do you need to split across the line to begin with? This 
> is most unfelicitous.
> 
> Andrew
> 


What I am looking for is something similar to the broken-right and broken-left 
properties of a text spanner, so that one can adjust the placement of the 
tuplet number on either side of the broken tuplet.

Here are two possible solutions illustrated graphically:

(the second voice in the example is only for breaking the bar to illustrate the 
problem)

The tuplet number displaced to the right only on the left broken side:


The tuplet number omitted on the left broken side.


All best,

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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Andrew Bernard]

Hello Juan,

I have various ways of doing this, but with all respect, this is really
very illegible engraving from the point of view of a player. Is this truly
what you want? Can you post a sketch of what is actually required? I half
see what you are getting at, but why do you need to split across the line
to begin with? This is most unfelicitous.

Andrew
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Re: placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Thomas Morley]

2017-04-11 21:26 GMT+02:00 Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo :
> Hello,
>
> Is there a way of changing the position of tuplet numbers in broken tuplets?
> In the following example I would like to be able to displace the lower three 
> in the first bar to the right.
> Any suggestions?

It's not clear to me what you want. Could you post an image faked by a
graphic program?

Cheers,
  Harm

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placement of tuplet number on broken tuplet

[Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo]

Hello,

Is there a way of changing the position of tuplet numbers in broken tuplets?
In the following example I would like to be able to displace the lower three in 
the first bar to the right.
Any suggestions?

all best,

jc

\version "2.19.57"

\layout {
  ragged-right = ##t
  \context {\Voice
\remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
\override Beam.breakable = ##t 
tupletFullLength = ##t
  }
}

<<
  {
\time 2/4
r4
\tuplet 3/2 {
  c'4
  \tuplet 3/2 { c' c' c' }
}
  }
  \\
  {
r2 \break
r2
  }
>>
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Re: Force tuplet number above notes

[Knute Snortum]

Even better, thanks!


---
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 2:01 PM, <u...@openlilylib.org> wrote:

> Am 2017-02-25 22:56, schrieb Knute Snortum:
>
> That works, thanks!
>>
>
> I'm at the wrong computer so I can't double-check right now, but I think
> the reason for this is that it's the tuplet *bracket* that is responsible
> for the direction, so you can't override the tuplet *number*'s direction
> independently.
>
> Instead of the explicit override you could probably also use the shorthand
> \tupletUp (optionally prepended with \once).
> Urs
>
>
>> ---
>> Knute Snortum
>> (via Gmail)
>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Jeffery Shivers <
>> jefferyshiv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Knute Snortum <ksnor...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am trying to get both tuplet numbers above the notes in the following
>>>> code.  I've tried \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP, but evidently
>>>> this
>>>> does not work.  What's the correct way to do this?
>>>>
>>>> \version "2.19.55"
>>>> \language "english"
>>>>
>>>> \relative {
>>>> \omit TupletBracket
>>>> \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP
>>>> \tuplet 3/2 2 { <ef' a gf'>4-> -> ->
>>>> -> -> -> }
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Maybe not the correct/best answer, but try it this way:
>>>
>>> == snip
>>> \relative {
>>> \override TupletBracket #'direction = #UP
>>> \omit TupletBracket
>>> \tuplet 3/2 2 {
>>> <ef' a gf'>4-> -> ->
>>> -> -> ->
>>> }
>>> }
>>> == snip
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Jeffery Shivers
>>> jefferyshivers.com
>>> soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers
>>>
>>
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>
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Re: Force tuplet number above notes

[Knute Snortum]

That works, thanks!


---
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Jeffery Shivers 
wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Knute Snortum  wrote:
> > I am trying to get both tuplet numbers above the notes in the following
> > code.  I've tried \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP, but evidently
> this
> > does not work.  What's the correct way to do this?
> >
> > \version "2.19.55"
> > \language "english"
> >
> > \relative {
> >   \omit TupletBracket
> >   \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP
> >   \tuplet 3/2 2 { 4-> -> ->
> > -> -> -> }
> > }
> >
>
> Maybe not the correct/best answer, but try it this way:
>
> == snip
> \relative {
>   \override TupletBracket #'direction = #UP
>   \omit TupletBracket
>   \tuplet 3/2 2 {
> 4-> -> ->
> -> -> ->
>   }
> }
> == snip
>
> --
>
> Jeffery Shivers
>  jefferyshivers.com
>  soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers
>
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Re: Force tuplet number above notes

[Jeffery Shivers]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Knute Snortum  wrote:
> I am trying to get both tuplet numbers above the notes in the following
> code.  I've tried \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP, but evidently this
> does not work.  What's the correct way to do this?
>
> \version "2.19.55"
> \language "english"
>
> \relative {
>   \omit TupletBracket
>   \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP
>   \tuplet 3/2 2 { 4-> -> ->
> -> -> -> }
> }
>

Maybe not the correct/best answer, but try it this way:

== snip
\relative {
  \override TupletBracket #'direction = #UP
  \omit TupletBracket
  \tuplet 3/2 2 {
4-> -> ->
-> -> ->
  }
}
== snip

-- 

Jeffery Shivers
 jefferyshivers.com
 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers

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Force tuplet number above notes

[Knute Snortum]

I am trying to get both tuplet numbers above the notes in the following
code.  I've tried \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP, but evidently
this does not work.  What's the correct way to do this?

\version "2.19.55"
\language "english"

\relative {
  \omit TupletBracket
  \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP
  \tuplet 3/2 2 { 4-> -> ->
-> -> -> }
}

---
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
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Re: Drop tuplet number?

[Simon Albrecht]

On 29.09.2016 12:55, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:

Hi Simon,

How about:

%%
\version "2.19.47"
{
  \omit TupletBracket
  %% optional:
  %\once\override TupletBracket.positions = #'()
  \voiceOne
  \partial 4
  \tweak positions #'()
  \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
  d''4
}
%%


Thanks, that’s great – it also plays well with
\override TupletNumber.outside-staff-priority = whatever

Best, Simon



Cheers,
Pierre

2016-09-28 16:39 GMT+02:00 Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de 
<mailto:simon.albre...@mail.de>>:


Hello,

in this snippet

%%
\version "2.19.47"
{
  \omit TupletBracket
  \voiceOne
  \partial 4
  \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
  d''4
}
%%

the tuplet number is positioned as if there were still a bracket.
Is it possible to ‘drop’ it into the gap, outside staff or maybe
even into the staff?

Best, Simon


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Re: Drop tuplet number?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Simon,

How about:

%%
\version "2.19.47"
{
  \omit TupletBracket
  %% optional:
  %\once\override TupletBracket.positions = #'()
  \voiceOne
  \partial 4
  \tweak positions #'()
  \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
  d''4
}
%%

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-09-28 16:39 GMT+02:00 Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de>:

> Hello,
>
> in this snippet
>
> %%
> \version "2.19.47"
> {
>   \omit TupletBracket
>   \voiceOne
>   \partial 4
>   \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
>   d''4
> }
> %%
>
> the tuplet number is positioned as if there were still a bracket.
> Is it possible to ‘drop’ it into the gap, outside staff or maybe even into
> the staff?
>
> Best, Simon
>
>
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Re: Drop tuplet number?

[Simon Albrecht]

On 28.09.2016 18:05, Karlin High wrote:

On 9/28/2016 9:49 AM, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Also, I’m sure I’ve already seen a solution with ‘slur-style’ tuplets,
or tuplet indication and slur merged. But I’m terribly bad at finding
such stuff from the archives or LSR. Can anyone please give a hint?

TIA, Simon

There was a discussion somewhere around here:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-04/msg00321.html


Yeah, thanks, that’s the one.
Best, Simon

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Re: Drop tuplet number?

[Karlin High]

On 9/28/2016 9:49 AM, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Also, I’m sure I’ve already seen a solution with ‘slur-style’ tuplets, 
> or tuplet indication and slur merged. But I’m terribly bad at finding 
> such stuff from the archives or LSR. Can anyone please give a hint?
>
> TIA, Simon 

There was a discussion somewhere around here:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-04/msg00321.html

April 15, 2016 or thereabouts. Subject is "Tuplet number direction." I'm 
not sure where it concludes.
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Drop tuplet number?

[Richard Shann]

On Wed, 2016-09-28 at 16:49 +0200, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Also, I’m sure I’ve already seen a solution with ‘slur-style’ tuplets, 
> or tuplet indication and slur merged. But I’m terribly bad at finding 
> such stuff from the archives or LSR. Can anyone please give a hint?

what I do is to execute the command in Denemo and then look at the
LilyPond output :)
But of course, that only works because I added the tuplet bracket as
slur command to Denemo when someone posted it recently on the mailing
list... There is a Command Center for searching for such commands.

Richard



> 
> TIA, Simon
> 
> On 28.09.2016 16:39, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > in this snippet
> >
> > %%
> > \version "2.19.47"
> > {
> >   \omit TupletBracket
> >   \voiceOne
> >   \partial 4
> >   \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
> >   d''4
> > }
> > %%
> >
> > the tuplet number is positioned as if there were still a bracket.
> > Is it possible to ‘drop’ it into the gap, outside staff or maybe even 
> > into the staff?
> >
> > Best, Simon
> >
> >
> >
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Re: Drop tuplet number?

[bart deruyter]

Hi, if I understand your question, this moves the tuplet number:

\version "2.19.47"
{
  \omit TupletBracket
  \voiceOne
  \partial 4
   \override TupletNumber #'Y-offset = #1.4
  \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
  d''4
}

Increase the number to position it higher, decrease it to get it lower.
There's also:
\override TupletNumber #'X-offset = #1.4
to move it horizontally.

HTH,
Bart

http://www.bartart3d.be/
On Twitter <https://twitter.com/Bart_Issimo>
On Identi.ca <http://identi.ca/bartart3d>
On Google+ <https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116379400376517483499/>

2016-09-28 16:49 GMT+02:00 Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de>:

> Also, I’m sure I’ve already seen a solution with ‘slur-style’ tuplets, or
> tuplet indication and slur merged. But I’m terribly bad at finding such
> stuff from the archives or LSR. Can anyone please give a hint?
>
> TIA, Simon
>
>
> On 28.09.2016 16:39, Simon Albrecht wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> in this snippet
>>
>> %%
>> \version "2.19.47"
>> {
>>   \omit TupletBracket
>>   \voiceOne
>>   \partial 4
>>   \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
>>   d''4
>> }
>> %%
>>
>> the tuplet number is positioned as if there were still a bracket.
>> Is it possible to ‘drop’ it into the gap, outside staff or maybe even
>> into the staff?
>>
>> Best, Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: Drop tuplet number?

[Simon Albrecht]

Also, I’m sure I’ve already seen a solution with ‘slur-style’ tuplets, 
or tuplet indication and slur merged. But I’m terribly bad at finding 
such stuff from the archives or LSR. Can anyone please give a hint?


TIA, Simon

On 28.09.2016 16:39, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Hello,

in this snippet

%%
\version "2.19.47"
{
  \omit TupletBracket
  \voiceOne
  \partial 4
  \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
  d''4
}
%%

the tuplet number is positioned as if there were still a bracket.
Is it possible to ‘drop’ it into the gap, outside staff or maybe even 
into the staff?


Best, Simon



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Drop tuplet number?

[Simon Albrecht]

Hello,

in this snippet

%%
\version "2.19.47"
{
  \omit TupletBracket
  \voiceOne
  \partial 4
  \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
  d''4
}
%%

the tuplet number is positioned as if there were still a bracket.
Is it possible to ‘drop’ it into the gap, outside staff or maybe even 
into the staff?


Best, Simon

\version "2.19.47"
{
  \omit TupletBracket
  \voiceOne
  \partial 4
  \tuplet 3/2 { bes'4 a'8 }
  d''4
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Re: Tuplet number direction

[David Kastrup]

David Wright  writes:

> On Fri 15 Apr 2016 at 10:23:55 (+0200), David Kastrup wrote:
>> 
>> Which would usually involve triplet brackets rather than hacking this
>> into partial note values at measure boundaries.  Which is how it was
>> done in the score I have been singing this from.
>
> Surely only two bars for each triplet, with three instances
> (naturally, because three was the whole point of the exercise).

It was 3 notes per 4 or even 8 bars.

> The triplets don't add any complications that aren't present
> already, ie if you want add barlines, you will get partial notes
> requiring ties all over.

Problem we were talking about were line breaks across tuplet markings
(brackets or slurs).

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[David Wright]

On Fri 15 Apr 2016 at 10:23:55 (+0200), David Kastrup wrote:
> "Phil Holmes"  writes:
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "David Kastrup" 
> > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 8:04 AM
> >> Simon Albrecht  writes:
> >>> On 15.04.2016 00:51, Thomas Morley wrote:
>  (1) The TupletNumbers are always inside the bow, I coded no
>  possibility to print the Number cutting the bow.
>  I maybe add it later.
>  (2) What to do at line-break?
> >>>
> >>> Wouldn’t it better do disallow line-breaks during tuplets
> >>> (i.e. \override TupletBracket.breakable = ##f – if that has an
> >>> effect), or at least ignore such situations for this particular style?
> >>> Clearly, there are situations where it would be better or even
> >>> necessary to break tuplets, but I don’t think such situations occur
> >>> before 1900,
> >>
> >> Josquin des Prez?  I've sung some Missa from him with wildly augmented
> >> triplets crossing a number of bars.  Timing them accurately took some
> >> math because at that speed there was no natural flow any more really.
> >>
> >> That would be early 16th century.
> 
> > Wouldn't have been notated like that in those days - they would have
> > used coloratio.
> 
> So?  Modern practices of printing Renaissance music are different from
> contemporary practices.  They are still different from modern practices
> of printing Classic music.
> 
> > So to notate it for singers today, you could do it any way that you
> > choose to make it look sensible.
> 
> Which would usually involve triplet brackets rather than hacking this
> into partial note values at measure boundaries.  Which is how it was
> done in the score I have been singing this from.

Surely only two bars for each triplet, with three instances
(naturally, because three was the whole point of the exercise).
The triplets don't add any complications that aren't present
already, ie if you want add barlines, you will get partial notes
requiring ties all over.

If I were typesetting it myself for amateur performers in church, say,
I'd probably write the triplets out as performed, ie 3 2 3 3 2 3 3 2 3
beats for each note, which ensures the sopranos are back together at
"simul" (excuse the pun, but hey, maybe that was also intended as part
of Josquin's conceit).

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-16 16:30 GMT+02:00 Trevor Daniels :
>
> Thomas Morley wrote Friday, April 15, 2016 11:25 PM
>
>> Agreed. I never considered to disallow tuplets over line-break.
>> Gould has nothing to say about it? (I still don't own the book...)
>
> She has a complete chapter devoted to tuplets.  She talks of tuplets
> across barlines (can be sub-divided with a tie or not, whichever is
> deemed to be most helpful) but with no explicit mention of tuplets
> across a system break, as far as I can see.

Thanks for the info.

>
> But if the tuplet is sub-divided across a barline, and that barline is
> at a system break, then all that is needed is a tied note extending
> across the break.  LP supports this already.

Indeed.
Though, I'm not aware we have a built-in-functionality to do this in
an automated way.
We_ have_ the completition_Head_engraver (or however it was
spelled...), but it's of kind all or nothing.

Nevertheless, I think I'll disregard something like

\score {
  \relative c'' { \tuplet 3/2 { c2 b \bar "" \break a } }
  \layout { line-width = 50 }
}

as a far too extreme border-case.


But here something really annoying, look at the out put of

\relative c''' {
  \voiceOne
  \repeat unfold 12 \times 2/3 { a'4 b, c \noBreak }
  \break
  \voiceTwo
  \repeat unfold 12 \times 2/3 { a,,,4 b' c, \noBreak }
}

You'll see the bracket already _wraps_ around the stems in the upper
staff, but not in the lower one. Furthermore this changes for the
upper staff, if not so tight spacing is forced or for lower pitches.
And again in the staff below the TupletBrackets doesn't change their
behaviour while doing loose spacing or higher pitches.

My codings for a tuplet-curve instead of a bracket rely on the
default-bracket. Up to now the behaviour of the brackets is hard to
predict with a reasonable coding, I guess a bug is in the game.


Thanks,
  Harm

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Trevor Daniels]

Thomas Morley wrote Friday, April 15, 2016 11:25 PM

> Agreed. I never considered to disallow tuplets over line-break.
> Gould has nothing to say about it? (I still don't own the book...)

She has a complete chapter devoted to tuplets.  She talks of tuplets
across barlines (can be sub-divided with a tie or not, whichever is 
deemed to be most helpful) but with no explicit mention of tuplets 
across a system break, as far as I can see.  

But if the tuplet is sub-divided across a barline, and that barline is
at a system break, then all that is needed is a tied note extending
across the break.  LP supports this already.

Trevor
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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> Nice!  One minor thing: If space allows, I would move the `3' a bit
>> nearer to the center to reduce the curvature of the slur.
> 
> You mean move the `3' nearer to the staff, right?

Yep.


Werner

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-15 19:07 GMT+02:00 David Nalesnik :

> Even if it is unlikely that an era of music which favors bow notation would
> require tuplets across bars or line breaks, it still makes sense to allow
> them for consistency.

Agreed. I never considered to disallow tuplets over line-break.
Gould has nothing to say about it? (I still don't own the book...)

I'm not always convinced by our current default either...

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-15 7:25 GMT+02:00 Werner LEMBERG :
>
>> Meanwhile I recoded it (using make-bow-stencil which is not
>> available in 2.18.2) making things way easier.
>
> Nice!  One minor thing: If space allows, I would move the `3' a bit
> nearer to the center to reduce the curvature of the slur.

You mean move the `3' nearer to the staff, right?

> Would that be possible?

No idea. I'll have a look asap, which may take some time, though.
I'm far to busy with non-lily-tasks ...

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[David Nalesnik]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Simon Albrecht 
wrote:

> On 15.04.2016 10:23, David Kastrup wrote:
>
>> Josquin des Prez?  I've sung some Missa from him with wildly augmented
 triplets crossing a number of bars.  Timing them accurately took some
 math because at that speed there was no natural flow any more really.
 That would be early 16th century.

>>>
>>> Wouldn't have been notated like that in those days - they would have
>>> used coloratio.
>>>
>> So?  Modern practices of printing Renaissance music are different from
>> contemporary practices.  They are still different from modern practices
>> of printing Classic music.
>>
>> So to notate it for singers today, you could do it any way that you
>>> choose to make it look sensible.
>>>
>> Which would usually involve triplet brackets
>>
>
> Exactly, brackets, not bows. So this isn’t relevant to the current thread
> either.
>
>
Even if it is unlikely that an era of music which favors bow notation would
require tuplets across bars or line breaks, it still makes sense to allow
them for consistency.  Besides, someone will come along who likes the look
of bows and requires a broken tuplet for a more recent style of music 

DN..
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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Simon Albrecht]

On 15.04.2016 10:23, David Kastrup wrote:

Josquin des Prez?  I've sung some Missa from him with wildly augmented
triplets crossing a number of bars.  Timing them accurately took some
math because at that speed there was no natural flow any more really.
That would be early 16th century.


Wouldn't have been notated like that in those days - they would have
used coloratio.

So?  Modern practices of printing Renaissance music are different from
contemporary practices.  They are still different from modern practices
of printing Classic music.


So to notate it for singers today, you could do it any way that you
choose to make it look sensible.

Which would usually involve triplet brackets


Exactly, brackets, not bows. So this isn’t relevant to the current 
thread either.


Best, Simon

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[David Kastrup]

David Kastrup  writes:

[...]

> "Phil Holmes"  writes:
>
>> So to notate it for singers today, you could do it any way that you
>> choose to make it look sensible.
>
> Which would usually involve triplet brackets rather than hacking this
> into partial note values at measure boundaries.  Which is how it was
> done in the score I have been singing this from.

Sigh.  "The former is how it was done in the score I have been singing
this from."  Like I would have expected it.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[David Kastrup]

"Phil Holmes" <m...@philholmes.net> writes:

> - Original Message - 
> From: "David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org>
> To: "Simon Albrecht" <simon.albre...@mail.de>
> Cc: "Thomas Morley" <thomasmorle...@gmail.com>; <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 8:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Tuplet number direction
>
>
>> Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de> writes:
>>
>>> On 15.04.2016 00:51, Thomas Morley wrote:
>>>> (1) The TupletNumbers are always inside the bow, I coded no
>>>> possibility to print the Number cutting the bow.
>>>> I maybe add it later.
>>>> (2) What to do at line-break?
>>>
>>> Wouldn’t it better do disallow line-breaks during tuplets
>>> (i.e. \override TupletBracket.breakable = ##f – if that has an
>>> effect), or at least ignore such situations for this particular style?
>>> Clearly, there are situations where it would be better or even
>>> necessary to break tuplets, but I don’t think such situations occur
>>> before 1900,
>>
>> Josquin des Prez?  I've sung some Missa from him with wildly augmented
>> triplets crossing a number of bars.  Timing them accurately took some
>> math because at that speed there was no natural flow any more really.
>>
>> That would be early 16th century.
>
> Wouldn't have been notated like that in those days - they would have
> used coloratio.

So?  Modern practices of printing Renaissance music are different from
contemporary practices.  They are still different from modern practices
of printing Classic music.

> So to notate it for singers today, you could do it any way that you
> choose to make it look sensible.

Which would usually involve triplet brackets rather than hacking this
into partial note values at measure boundaries.  Which is how it was
done in the score I have been singing this from.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: "David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org>

To: "Simon Albrecht" <simon.albre...@mail.de>
Cc: "Thomas Morley" <thomasmorle...@gmail.com>; <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: Tuplet number direction



Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de> writes:


On 15.04.2016 00:51, Thomas Morley wrote:

(1) The TupletNumbers are always inside the bow, I coded no
possibility to print the Number cutting the bow.
I maybe add it later.
(2) What to do at line-break?


Wouldn’t it better do disallow line-breaks during tuplets
(i.e. \override TupletBracket.breakable = ##f – if that has an
effect), or at least ignore such situations for this particular style?
Clearly, there are situations where it would be better or even
necessary to break tuplets, but I don’t think such situations occur
before 1900,


Josquin des Prez?  I've sung some Missa from him with wildly augmented
triplets crossing a number of bars.  Timing them accurately took some
math because at that speed there was no natural flow any more really.

That would be early 16th century.

--
David Kastrup



Wouldn't have been notated like that in those days - they would have used 
coloratio.  So to notate it for singers today, you could do it any way that 
you choose to make it look sensible.


--
Phil Holmes 



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Re: Tuplet number direction

[David Kastrup]

Simon Albrecht  writes:

> On 15.04.2016 00:51, Thomas Morley wrote:
>> (1) The TupletNumbers are always inside the bow, I coded no
>> possibility to print the Number cutting the bow.
>> I maybe add it later.
>> (2) What to do at line-break?
>
> Wouldn’t it better do disallow line-breaks during tuplets
> (i.e. \override TupletBracket.breakable = ##f – if that has an
> effect), or at least ignore such situations for this particular style?
> Clearly, there are situations where it would be better or even
> necessary to break tuplets, but I don’t think such situations occur
> before 1900,

Josquin des Prez?  I've sung some Missa from him with wildly augmented
triplets crossing a number of bars.  Timing them accurately took some
math because at that speed there was no natural flow any more really.

That would be early 16th century.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Meanwhile I recoded it (using make-bow-stencil which is not
> available in 2.18.2) making things way easier.

Nice!  One minor thing: If space allows, I would move the `3' a bit
nearer to the center to reduce the curvature of the slur.  Would that
be possible?


Werner

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Simon Albrecht]

On 15.04.2016 00:51, Thomas Morley wrote:

(1) The TupletNumbers are always inside the bow, I coded no
possibility to print the Number cutting the bow.
I maybe add it later.
(2) What to do at line-break?


Wouldn’t it better do disallow line-breaks during tuplets (i.e. 
\override TupletBracket.breakable = ##f – if that has an effect), or at 
least ignore such situations for this particular style? Clearly, there 
are situations where it would be better or even necessary to break 
tuplets, but I don’t think such situations occur before 1900, and as 
this is definitely emulating a notational practice of the 18th and 19th 
centuries such situations might be ignored, I think.


Best, Simon

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-13 23:28 GMT+02:00 Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com>:
> 2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann <rich...@rshann.plus.com>:
>> Thanks Abraham, that's most informative.
>> Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way to
>> say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
>> inside?
>
> I once made the attached code.
> Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs.
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm

Meanwhile I recoded it (using make-bow-stencil which is not available
in 2.18.2) making things way easier.

Though,
(1) The TupletNumbers are always inside the bow, I coded no
possibility to print the Number cutting the bow.
I maybe add it later.
(2) What to do at line-break? See RehearsalMark A and B.
Could somebody take a look what Gould says about it (and/or other
type-setting-bibles)?

For now I let the colored default _and_ the new bow print above each
other for easy compare.

Feedback appreciated !!

\version "2.19.36"

foo =
%\once
\override TupletBracket.stencil =
  #(lambda (grob)
 (let* ((x-pos (ly:grob-property grob 'X-positions))
(pos (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))
(dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
(edge-height (ly:grob-property grob 'edge-height)))
   (ly:stencil-add
 (stencil-with-color (ly:tuplet-bracket::print grob) red)
 (make-bow-stencil
   ;; start
   (cons (car x-pos) (- (car pos) (* dir (car edge-height
   ;; stop
   (cons (cdr x-pos) (- (cdr pos) (* dir (cdr edge-height
   ;; thickness, taken from IR for Slur
   0.12
   ;; angularity, value `0.6' is my choice,
   ;; TODO make angularity more flexible?
   0.6
   ;; bow-height, value `1' is my choice, adding average of edge-height
   ;; TODO do less steep curves by using a fraction of
   ;;  average-edge-height?
   (+ 1 (/ (+ (car edge-height) (cdr edge-height)) 2))
   ;; orientation
   dir

\relative c'' {
  \voiceOne

  %\override TupletBracket.staff-padding = #'()
  \foo
  \times 2/3 { a4 b c }
  \times 2/3 { a4 b c' }
  \times 2/3 { a,4 b c, }
  \times 2/3 { a'4 b, c }

  \voiceTwo

  \times 2/3 { a'4 b c }
  \times 2/3 { a4 b c' }
  \times 2/3 { a,4 b c, }
  \times 2/3 { a'4 b, c }

  \oneVoice
  \mark \default
  \times 2/3 { a1 b2 \break b c1 }
  \mark \default
  \times 2/3 { a1 b1 \bar "" \break c1 }

}


Cheers,
  Harm
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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Richard Shann]

On Thu, 2016-04-14 at 18:01 +0100, Richard Shann wrote:
> This looks very nice, thank you!
> I'll have to see how it interacts with the graphical slur shape tweaking
> code in Denemo.

Denemo will need some tweaking to make those shapes respond to graphical
editing, but I've added it to the Tuplets menu in Denemo as it works so
well. That way it won't get forgotten.
Once more thanks to all on the list.

Richard


> 
> Richard
> 
> On Thu, 2016-04-14 at 08:20 -0700, tisimst wrote:
> > Richard,
> > 
> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Richard Shann-2 [via Lilypond]
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 23:28 +0200, Thomas Morley wrote: 
> > > 2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann <[hidden email]>: 
> > > > Thanks Abraham, that's most informative. 
> > > > Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is
> > there a way to 
> > > > say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the
> > tuplet number 
> > > > inside? 
> > > 
> > > I once made the attached code. 
> > > Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs. 
> > 
> > Hmm, quite a battle to get that I see! In fact your code does
> > something 
> >     extra-fancy compared with the commonplace examples I see in
> > old prints, 
> > namely the tuplet number cuts into the slur. Typically the
> >     tuplet number 
> > is inside the slur, which happened by default in LilyPond once
> > I set the 
> > direction. I was hoping it might be possible just to set the
> > tuplet 
> > number direction to be the same as a slur would be - I don't
> > mind adding 
> > the slur manually.
> > 
> > 
> > Here's a customized variant of Harm's function that does more of what
> > you want by moving the slur outside the TupletNumber without cutting
> > it in half. Like Simon eluded to, though, it would need some work to
> > be robust enough to be incorporated into LilyPond core. Anyway, here's
> > the function for your enjoyment:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > \version "2.18.2"
> > 
> > 
> > tupletBracketToSlur = {
> >   % Use slur-stencil
> >   \override TupletBracket.stencil = #ly:slur::print
> >   
> >   %% Use 'thickness from Slur
> >   \override TupletBracket.thickness = #1.2
> >   
> >   %% 'control-points need to be set
> >   \override TupletBracket.control-points =
> > #(lambda (grob)
> >   (let* ((x-pos (ly:grob-property grob 'X-positions))
> >  (pos (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))
> >  (x-ln (interval-length x-pos))
> >  (dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
> >  ;; read out the height of the TupletBracket, maybe
> > negative!
> >  (height (- (cdr pos) (car pos)))
> >  ;; height-corr is introduced because sometimes the shape
> > of the
> >  ;; slur needs to be adjusted.
> >  ;; It is used in the 2nd/3rd control-point.
> >  ;; The value of 0.3 is found by trial and error
> >  (height-corr (* 0.3 dir height))
> >  (edge-height (ly:grob-property grob 'edge-height '(0.7 .
> > 0.7)))
> >  (pad 1.0))
> >  
> > (list
> >   ;; first cp
> >   (cons
> > (+ (car x-pos) 0.5)
> > (- (+ (* dir pad) (+ (car pos) (* -1 dir (car
> > edge-height
> >   (if (= dir -1)
> >   (if (> height 3)
> > (/ dir 2.0)
> > 0.0)
> >   (if (< height -3)
> > (/ dir 2.0)
> > 0.0
> >   ;; second cp
> >   (cons
> > (+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 1/4))
> > (+ (* dir pad) (+ (car pos) (* dir (+ 0.5 height-corr)
> >   ;; third cp
> >   (cons
> > (+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 3/4))
> > (+ (* dir pad) (+ (cdr pos) (* dir (- 0.5 height-corr)
> >   ;; fourth cp
> >   (cons
> > (- (cdr x-pos) 0.5)
> > (+ (* dir pad) (+ (cdr pos) (* -1 dir (cdr
> > edge-height)
> > )))
> >   
> >   \override TupletBracket.staff-padding = #'()
> > 
>

Re: Tuplet number direction

[Richard Shann]

This looks very nice, thank you!
I'll have to see how it interacts with the graphical slur shape tweaking
code in Denemo.

Richard

On Thu, 2016-04-14 at 08:20 -0700, tisimst wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Richard Shann-2 [via Lilypond]
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 23:28 +0200, Thomas Morley wrote: 
> > 2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann <[hidden email]>: 
> > > Thanks Abraham, that's most informative. 
> > > Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is
> there a way to 
> > > say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the
> tuplet number 
> > > inside? 
> > 
> > I once made the attached code. 
> > Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs. 
> 
> Hmm, quite a battle to get that I see! In fact your code does
> something 
> extra-fancy compared with the commonplace examples I see in
>     old prints, 
> namely the tuplet number cuts into the slur. Typically the
> tuplet number 
> is inside the slur, which happened by default in LilyPond once
> I set the 
> direction. I was hoping it might be possible just to set the
> tuplet 
> number direction to be the same as a slur would be - I don't
> mind adding 
> the slur manually.
> 
> 
> Here's a customized variant of Harm's function that does more of what
> you want by moving the slur outside the TupletNumber without cutting
> it in half. Like Simon eluded to, though, it would need some work to
> be robust enough to be incorporated into LilyPond core. Anyway, here's
> the function for your enjoyment:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> 
> 
> tupletBracketToSlur = {
>   % Use slur-stencil
>   \override TupletBracket.stencil = #ly:slur::print
>   
>   %% Use 'thickness from Slur
>   \override TupletBracket.thickness = #1.2
>   
>   %% 'control-points need to be set
>   \override TupletBracket.control-points =
> #(lambda (grob)
>   (let* ((x-pos (ly:grob-property grob 'X-positions))
>  (pos (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))
>  (x-ln (interval-length x-pos))
>  (dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
>  ;; read out the height of the TupletBracket, maybe
> negative!
>  (height (- (cdr pos) (car pos)))
>  ;; height-corr is introduced because sometimes the shape
> of the
>  ;; slur needs to be adjusted.
>  ;; It is used in the 2nd/3rd control-point.
>  ;; The value of 0.3 is found by trial and error
>  (height-corr (* 0.3 dir height))
>  (edge-height (ly:grob-property grob 'edge-height '(0.7 .
> 0.7)))
>  (pad 1.0))
>  
> (list
>   ;; first cp
>   (cons
> (+ (car x-pos) 0.5)
> (- (+ (* dir pad) (+ (car pos) (* -1 dir (car
> edge-height
>   (if (= dir -1)
>   (if (> height 3)
> (/ dir 2.0)
> 0.0)
>   (if (< height -3)
> (/ dir 2.0)
> 0.0
>   ;; second cp
>   (cons
> (+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 1/4))
> (+ (* dir pad) (+ (car pos) (* dir (+ 0.5 height-corr)
>   ;; third cp
>   (cons
> (+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 3/4))
> (+ (* dir pad) (+ (cdr pos) (* dir (- 0.5 height-corr)
>   ;; fourth cp
>   (cons
> (- (cdr x-pos) 0.5)
> (+ (* dir pad) (+ (cdr pos) (* -1 dir (cdr
> edge-height)
> )))
>   
>   \override TupletBracket.staff-padding = #'()
> 
> }
> 
> 
> %%% Example %
> 
> 
> 
> music = \relative c'' {
>   \tuplet 3/2 4 { a8 b c a b c' a, b c, a' b, c }
>   \tuplet 5/4 2 { a' b c d e a,, b c' d e }
>   \tuplet 5/4 2 { a b c, d e a b, c d, e }
>   \break
> }
> 
> 
> \layout {
>   indent = 0
>   \tupletBracketToSlur
>   \omit Staff.TimeSignature
> 
>   \omit Score.BarNumber
> }
> 
> 
> 
> \score {  
>   { \music }
>   \header { piece = "Default" }
> }
> 
> 
> \score {  
>   { \tupletUp \music }
>   \header { piece = "TupletBracket forced UP" }
> }
> 
> 
> \score {  
>   { \tupletDown \music }
>   \header { piece = "TupletBracket forced DOWN" }
> }
> 
> 
> \score {  
> 
>

Re: Tuplet number direction

[tisimst]

Richard,

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Richard Shann-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n189594...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 23:28 +0200, Thomas Morley wrote:
> > 2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann <[hidden email]
> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node=189594=0>>:
> > > Thanks Abraham, that's most informative.
> > > Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way
> to
> > > say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
> > > inside?
> >
> > I once made the attached code.
> > Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs.
>
> Hmm, quite a battle to get that I see! In fact your code does something
> extra-fancy compared with the commonplace examples I see in old prints,
> namely the tuplet number cuts into the slur. Typically the tuplet number
> is inside the slur, which happened by default in LilyPond once I set the
> direction. I was hoping it might be possible just to set the tuplet
> number direction to be the same as a slur would be - I don't mind adding
> the slur manually.
>

Here's a customized variant of Harm's function that does more of what you
want by moving the slur outside the TupletNumber without cutting it in
half. Like Simon eluded to, though, it would need some work to be robust
enough to be incorporated into LilyPond core. Anyway, here's the function
for your enjoyment:



\version "2.18.2"

tupletBracketToSlur = {
  % Use slur-stencil
  \override TupletBracket.stencil = #ly:slur::print

  %% Use 'thickness from Slur
  \override TupletBracket.thickness = #1.2

  %% 'control-points need to be set
  \override TupletBracket.control-points =
#(lambda (grob)
  (let* ((x-pos (ly:grob-property grob 'X-positions))
 (pos (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))
 (x-ln (interval-length x-pos))
 (dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
 ;; read out the height of the TupletBracket, maybe negative!
 (height (- (cdr pos) (car pos)))
 ;; height-corr is introduced because sometimes the shape of the
 ;; slur needs to be adjusted.
 ;; It is used in the 2nd/3rd control-point.
 ;; The value of 0.3 is found by trial and error
 (height-corr (* 0.3 dir height))
 (edge-height (ly:grob-property grob 'edge-height '(0.7 . 0.7)))
 (pad 1.0))

(list
  ;; first cp
  (cons
(+ (car x-pos) 0.5)
(- (+ (* dir pad) (+ (car pos) (* -1 dir (car edge-height
  (if (= dir -1)
  (if (> height 3)
(/ dir 2.0)
0.0)
  (if (< height -3)
(/ dir 2.0)
0.0
  ;; second cp
  (cons
(+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 1/4))
(+ (* dir pad) (+ (car pos) (* dir (+ 0.5 height-corr)
  ;; third cp
  (cons
(+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 3/4))
(+ (* dir pad) (+ (cdr pos) (* dir (- 0.5 height-corr)
  ;; fourth cp
  (cons
(- (cdr x-pos) 0.5)
(+ (* dir pad) (+ (cdr pos) (* -1 dir (cdr edge-height)
)))

  \override TupletBracket.staff-padding = #'()
}

%%% Example %

music = \relative c'' {
  \tuplet 3/2 4 { a8 b c a b c' a, b c, a' b, c }
  \tuplet 5/4 2 { a' b c d e a,, b c' d e }
  \tuplet 5/4 2 { a b c, d e a b, c d, e }
  \break
}

\layout {
  indent = 0
  \tupletBracketToSlur
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  \omit Score.BarNumber
}

\score {
  { \music }
  \header { piece = "Default" }
}

\score {
  { \tupletUp \music }
  \header { piece = "TupletBracket forced UP" }
}

\score {
  { \tupletDown \music }
  \header { piece = "TupletBracket forced DOWN" }
}

\score {
  { \voiceOne \music }
  \header { piece = "All forced UP (\voiceOne)" }
}

\score {
  { \voiceTwo \music }
  \header { piece = "All forced DOWN (\voiceTwo)" }
}



It does a pretty good job and follows the slope of the stems/beam, though
there are likely to be cases where the curve is not perfect (like one or
two in my example).

HTH,
Abraham




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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Richard Shann]

On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 23:28 +0200, Thomas Morley wrote:
> 2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann <rich...@rshann.plus.com>:
> > Thanks Abraham, that's most informative.
> > Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way to
> > say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
> > inside?
> 
> I once made the attached code.
> Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs.

Hmm, quite a battle to get that I see! In fact your code does something
extra-fancy compared with the commonplace examples I see in old prints,
namely the tuplet number cuts into the slur. Typically the tuplet number
is inside the slur, which happened by default in LilyPond once I set the
direction. I was hoping it might be possible just to set the tuplet
number direction to be the same as a slur would be - I don't mind adding
the slur manually.

Richard
 


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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Simon Albrecht]

On 14.04.2016 06:19, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

is there a way to say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with
the tuplet number inside?

I once made the attached code.

Very nice! LSR?

Actually, I would even like to see this directly in lilypond!  Such
triplet slurs are used very often in the engraving epoch lilypond
tries to mimick – it's not an exotic variant but almost as common as
squared brackets.


The question is how, and I think that making this ready for inclusion in 
LilyPond proper is still some work: as I wrote, it would be best to 
implement this as a style property heeded by the stencil callback. And 
it would need to be quite robust of course – don’t know if it is.


Best, Simon

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Werner LEMBERG]

>>> is there a way to say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with
>>> the tuplet number inside?
>>
>> I once made the attached code.
> 
> Very nice! LSR?

Actually, I would even like to see this directly in lilypond!  Such
triplet slurs are used very often in the engraving epoch lilypond
tries to mimick – it's not an exotic variant but almost as common as
squared brackets.


Werner
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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-13 23:54 GMT+02:00 Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de>:
> On 13.04.2016 23:28, Thomas Morley wrote:
>>
>> 2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann<rich...@rshann.plus.com>:
>>>
>>> Thanks Abraham, that's most informative.
>>> Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way to
>>> say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
>>> inside?
>>
>> I once made the attached code.
>> Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs.
>
>
> Very nice! LSR?
>
> Best, Simon

Sometimes I have the impression my whole library of custom-functions
and other codings could be implemented in the LSR.
Though, this is too much work for a single person (I did the sometimes
time-consuming coding already, I _am_ a LSR-maintainer, etc, etc).

May I remind you all at
http://lilypond.org/website/help-us.html

Among others you can read:
"
Simple tasks

No programming skills required!

Mailing list support: answer questions from fellow users.
Bug reporting: help users create proper Bug reports, and/or join the
Bug Squad to organize Issues.
Documentation: small changes can be proposed by following the
guidelines for Documentation suggestions.

LilyPond Snippet Repository (LSR): create and fix snippets following
the guidelines in Adding and editing snippets.

Discussions, reviews, and testing: the developers often ask for
feedback about new documentation, potential syntax changes, and
testing new features. Please contribute to these discussions!
"

The CG says more about LSR:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/contributor/adding-and-editing-snippets.html
"When you create (or find!) a nice snippet, if it is supported by the
LilyPond version running on the LSR, please add it to the LSR. [...]

My own codings are always public domain (unless otherwise stated)...

Simon, Malte, Joram, Urs, the bug-squad, ..., I know you do a lot
already, though we do need more helping people at all layers !!
Nearly everyone could do some of the tasks listed above !!

So this is a call to all, please think what _you_ can do.


Well, I'm overtired again, it's bedtime.

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Simon Albrecht]

On 13.04.2016 23:28, Thomas Morley wrote:

2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann<rich...@rshann.plus.com>:

Thanks Abraham, that's most informative.
Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way to
say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
inside?

I once made the attached code.
Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs.


Very nice! LSR?

Best, Simon

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-13 15:06 GMT+02:00 Richard Shann <rich...@rshann.plus.com>:
> Thanks Abraham, that's most informative.
> Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way to
> say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
> inside?

I once made the attached code.
Maybe you can adapt it to fit your needs.

Cheers,
  Harm
\version "2.18.0"

printTupletBow = {
  %% Use slur-stencil
  \override TupletBracket #'stencil = #ly:slur::print
  
  %% Use 'thickness from Slur
  \override TupletBracket #'thickness = #1.2
  
  %% Set 'layer to ensure without for TuoletNumber
  \override TupletBracket #'layer = #1
  \override TupletNumber #'layer = #2
  
  %% 'control-points need to be set
  \override TupletBracket #'control-points =
#(lambda (grob)
  (let* ((x-pos (ly:grob-property grob 'X-positions))
 (pos (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))
 (x-ln (interval-length x-pos))
 (dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
 ;; read out the height of the TupletBracket, maybe negativ!
 (height (- (cdr pos) (car pos)))
 ;; height-corr is introduced because sometimes the shape of the
 ;; slur needs to be adjusted.
 ;; It is used in 2nd/3rd controllpoint.
 ;; The value of 0.3 is found by try and error
 (height-corr (* 0.3 dir height))
 (edge-height (ly:grob-property grob 'edge-height '(0.7 . 0.7

(list 
  ;; first cp
  (cons 
(car x-pos) 
(+ (car pos) (* -1 dir (car edge-height
  ;; second cp
  (cons 
(+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 1/4)) 
(+ (car pos) (* dir (+ 0.5 height-corr
  ;; third cp
  (cons 
(+ (car x-pos) (* x-ln 3/4)) 
(+ (cdr pos) (* dir (- 0.5 height-corr
  ;; fourth cp
  (cons 
(cdr x-pos) 
(+ (cdr pos) (* -1 dir (cdr edge-height)))
   
  %% Give TupletNumber nicer padding
  \override TupletNumber #'stencil = 
#(lambda (grob)
   (let* ((stil (ly:tuplet-number::print grob))
  (x-ext (ly:stencil-extent stil X))
  ;; little more padding at left of the number
  (new-x-ext (cons (- (car x-ext) 0.1) (cdr x-ext)))
  (y-ext (ly:stencil-extent stil Y))
  ;; give TupletNumber a little more padding around
  (new-stil (ly:make-stencil 
  (ly:stencil-expr stil) 
  (interval-widen new-x-ext 0.1)
  (interval-widen y-ext 0.1
   
   (stencil-whiteout new-stil)))

%% Adjust TupletNumber in Y-direction
\override TupletNumber #'Y-offset = 
  #(lambda (grob) 
 (let* ((dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
(y-off (ly:tuplet-number::calc-y-offset grob)))
 ;; The value of 0.2 is found by try and error   
 (+ (* dir 0.2) y-off)))
}

\layout {
  \printTupletBow
}
	

\relative c'' {
  \voiceOne
  
  \times 2/3 { a4 b c }
  \times 2/3 { a4 b c' }
  \times 2/3 { a,4 b c, }
  \times 2/3 { a'4 b, c }
  
  \voiceTwo
  
  \times 2/3 { a'4 b c }
  \times 2/3 { a4 b c' }
  \times 2/3 { a,4 b c, }
  \times 2/3 { a'4 b, c }
}
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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Noeck]

Hi,

perhaps this goes into the right direction:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2011-10/msg00325.html

I thought I've seen more of this in the snippets, but I couldn't find
anything.

HTH,
Joram

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Simon Albrecht]

On 13.04.2016 15:06, Richard Shann wrote:

Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way to
say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
inside?


That would be great to have, and I think has been requested some times 
already. But I assume this would require a special stencil procedure.
Ideally of course one had a 'style property in TupletBracket, with 
something like 'bracket being the default, and 'slur available for 
overriding.


Best, Simon

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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Richard Shann]

Thanks Abraham, that's most informative.
Thinking about it, I wonder if I've missed something: is there a way to
say typeset the tuplet bracket like a slur, with the tuplet number
inside?
The reason I ask is that I came to this section of the manual because
when typesetting 18th c. music the tuplets are often accompanied by a
slur which one suspects are merely there to group the tuplet. So I put a
slur and then found the tuplet number (after suppressing the bracket)
was in the wrong direction.
Alternatively, is it possible to set this direction property so that it
is up or down following the same rule as slurs? (e.g. some
#slur::calc-direction procedure to set it to)?

Richard


On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 06:06 -0600, Abraham Lee wrote:
> Richard, et al,
> 
> 
> Many grob properties are given a function (like
> tuplet-number::calc-direction) rather than a static value (like UP)
> when the property depends on many factors. In other words, by default,
> it's as if the 'direction property was set with
> 
> 
> \override TupletNumber.direction = #tuplet-number::calc-direction
> 
> 
> This function accepts a TupletNumber grob object which is able to
> provide the information needed for tuplet-number::calc-direction to
> determine if the value should be UP, DOWN, CENTER, or even something
> else (like with kneed beams). So, by putting in one of those output
> values, like
> 
> 
> \override TupletNumber.direction = #UP
> 
> 
> you are just removing the original function from the loop since you
> are doing its job.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 4:17 AM, Richard Shann
> <rich...@rshann.plus.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 19:51 +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> > Above or below what object?
> >
> I think the direction of the tuplet bracket and number are
> calculated
> relative to the notes in the tuplet, though whether these
> constitute a
> single object or not, I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> Like I said before, the 'direction depends on a handful of things. In
> any case, no, the number and bracket are NOT a single object. So, say
> you have a passage of consecutive tuplets and you just want to show a
> few at the beginning like:
> 
> {
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
> }
> 
> 
> In order to not show BOTH number and bracket, you have to override
> BOTH, like:
> 
> {
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
>   \omit TupletNumber
>   \omit TupletBracket
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4_\markup { \italic simile } d' e' }  
> \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
> }
> 
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Abraham
> 



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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Abraham Lee]

Richard, et al,

Many grob properties are given a function (like
tuplet-number::calc-direction) rather than a static value (like UP) when
the property depends on many factors. In other words, by default, it's as
if the 'direction property was set with

\override TupletNumber.direction = #tuplet-number::calc-direction

This function accepts a TupletNumber grob object which is able to provide
the information needed for tuplet-number::calc-direction to determine if
the value should be UP, DOWN, CENTER, or even something else (like with
kneed beams). So, by putting in one of those output values, like

\override TupletNumber.direction = #UP

you are just removing the original function from the loop since you are
doing its job.


On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 4:17 AM, Richard Shann <rich...@rshann.plus.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 19:51 +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> > Above or below what object?
> >
> I think the direction of the tuplet bracket and number are calculated
> relative to the notes in the tuplet, though whether these constitute a
> single object or not, I'm not sure.


Like I said before, the 'direction depends on a handful of things. In any
case, no, the number and bracket are NOT a single object. So, say you have
a passage of consecutive tuplets and you just want to show a few at the
beginning like:

{
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
}

In order to not show BOTH number and bracket, you have to override BOTH,
like:

{
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
  \omit TupletNumber
  \omit TupletBracket
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4_\markup { \italic simile } d' e' }
\tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' }  \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 d' e' } |
}

HTH,
Abraham
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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Richard Shann]

On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 19:51 +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Above or below what object?
> 
I think the direction of the tuplet bracket and number are calculated
relative to the notes in the tuplet, though whether these constitute a
single object or not, I'm not sure.

Richard


> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> On 13/04/2016, 19:37, "lilypond-user on behalf of Richard Shann"
> <lilypond-user-bounces+andrew.bernard=gmail@gnu.org on behalf of
> rich...@rshann.plus.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> put the tuplet number above rather than below 



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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Richard Shann]

On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 11:00 +0100, Phil Holmes wrote:
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Richard Shann" <rich...@rshann.plus.com>
> To: <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 10:37 AM
> Subject: Tuplet number direction
> 
> 
> >I wonder if someone could illuminate the tuplet direction property - I
> > wanted to put the tuplet number above rather than below and looked up:
> >
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/internals/tupletnumber
> >
> > direction (direction):
> >
> >tuplet-number::calc-direction
> >
> >If side-axis is 0 (or X), then this property determines whether the
> > object is placed LEFT, CENTER or RIGHT with respect to the other object.
> > Otherwise, it determines whether the object is placed UP, CENTER or
> > DOWN. Numerical values may also be used: UP=1, DOWN=-1, LEFT=-1,
> > RIGHT=1, CENTER=0.
> >
> > from this I tried
> >
> > \override TupletBracket #'tuplet-number::calc-direction = #UP  (WRONG)
> >
> > which (having stared at LilyPond syntax over the years) looked fishy and
> > indeed did not work. So I resorted to stabbing in the dark:
> >
> >
> >  \override TupletBracket #'direction = #UP
> >
> > which does work. I wonder if some words of wisdom could help me and
> > others to go more directly to the answer in this (and other?) case(s).
> >
> > Richard
> 
> 
> I'm not an expert in the internals, but it looks to me that the IR lists the 
> properties with below the property, a default.  Thus the default font-shape 
> is 'italic, and the default direction is given by 
> tuplet-number::calc-direction.  Direction has an argument of (direction) and 
> it therefore expects a direction as the argument.  In this case, #UP is a 
> possible argument.

Ah, yes! that fits with the
 font-shape (symbol):

'italic 

entry, since tuplet numbers are usually in italics.
I think it would help to have the format of this information
(property-name default value ...) somewhere easily visible (e.g. an
"explain" link on the top of each box or headings or ...)

Thank you very much I feel that information may stick.

Richard






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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Shann" <rich...@rshann.plus.com>

To: <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 10:37 AM
Subject: Tuplet number direction



I wonder if someone could illuminate the tuplet direction property - I
wanted to put the tuplet number above rather than below and looked up:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/internals/tupletnumber

direction (direction):

   tuplet-number::calc-direction

   If side-axis is 0 (or X), then this property determines whether the
object is placed LEFT, CENTER or RIGHT with respect to the other object.
Otherwise, it determines whether the object is placed UP, CENTER or
DOWN. Numerical values may also be used: UP=1, DOWN=-1, LEFT=-1,
RIGHT=1, CENTER=0.

from this I tried

\override TupletBracket #'tuplet-number::calc-direction = #UP  (WRONG)

which (having stared at LilyPond syntax over the years) looked fishy and
indeed did not work. So I resorted to stabbing in the dark:


 \override TupletBracket #'direction = #UP

which does work. I wonder if some words of wisdom could help me and
others to go more directly to the answer in this (and other?) case(s).

Richard



I'm not an expert in the internals, but it looks to me that the IR lists the 
properties with below the property, a default.  Thus the default font-shape 
is 'italic, and the default direction is given by 
tuplet-number::calc-direction.  Direction has an argument of (direction) and 
it therefore expects a direction as the argument.  In this case, #UP is a 
possible argument.


--
Phil Holmes 



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Re: Tuplet number direction

[Andrew Bernard]

Above or below what object?

Andrew

On 13/04/2016, 19:37, "lilypond-user on behalf of Richard Shann" 
<lilypond-user-bounces+andrew.bernard=gmail@gnu.org on behalf of 
rich...@rshann.plus.com> wrote:

put the tuplet number above rather than below 

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Tuplet number direction

[Richard Shann]

I wonder if someone could illuminate the tuplet direction property - I
wanted to put the tuplet number above rather than below and looked up:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/internals/tupletnumber

direction (direction):

tuplet-number::calc-direction

If side-axis is 0 (or X), then this property determines whether the
object is placed LEFT, CENTER or RIGHT with respect to the other object.
Otherwise, it determines whether the object is placed UP, CENTER or
DOWN. Numerical values may also be used: UP=1, DOWN=-1, LEFT=-1,
RIGHT=1, CENTER=0. 

from this I tried

 \override TupletBracket #'tuplet-number::calc-direction = #UP  (WRONG)

which (having stared at LilyPond syntax over the years) looked fishy and
indeed did not work. So I resorted to stabbing in the dark:


  \override TupletBracket #'direction = #UP 

which does work. I wonder if some words of wisdom could help me and
others to go more directly to the answer in this (and other?) case(s).

Richard



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Re: Grace note kicks tuplet number away

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi all, I'd like to offer a small bounty for this issue. If anyone is able to
tackle this until the 15th of April (which is the deadline for my work which
is being affected by this) I am able to offer 15 EUR.

Cheers,
Gilberto



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Re: tuplet number

[David Kastrup]

Stanton Sanderson  writes:

>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Malte Meyn  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 18.01.2016 um 23:52 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek:
>>> In 2.18,
>>> 
>>> Tuplet - no number\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
>> 
>> Setting the stencil to ##f is exactly what \omit does ;) (\omit already
>> exists in 2.18).
>
> A third option to your first two, which proves quite useful in my case- 
> \once \undo \omit 

Well, only as of version 2.19.28 (before that \once would have been
ignored which would seem inconvenient but no showstopper for this use
case):

commit 314743a9769d8094d23cd45eb307b1485b41cb44
Author: David Kastrup 
Date:   Tue Sep 15 20:50:13 2015 +0200

Issue 4609/4: Move \once action from iterators to listeners

This ends the dependency of the events generated for \once\unset and
\once\set on the current context (bad for recording and replaying events
like with the part combiner and quoted music).  It also implements
\once\revert and makes every \once\override and \once\revert impervious
to any other overrides and reverts that may happen at the same time.

It's also worth noting that if you are planning to use \once \revert, it
generally is a worthwhile idea to use \temporary \override (or
\temporary \omit in this case) before: in case that the value to revert
to is established in the context (or its context definition) itself
(which it isn't here, as opposed to TabStaff), the old value to revert
to will only be available on the context's property stack when having
used a \temporary override.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: tuplet number

[David Kastrup]

Stanton Sanderson  writes:

> How does one revert  \omit TupletNumber to allow the number to appear for a 
> specific tuplet? In the following example, I would like to show the tupet 
> number in the second measure. Thanks in advance.
>
> Stan
>
> \version "2.19.35"
>  \relative c'' {
> c   \omit TupletNumber   \tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
> c  % \omit TupletNumber   
> \tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
> }

In 2.19.35 you can use

\once \undo \omit TupletNumber

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: tuplet number

[Stanton Sanderson]

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Malte Meyn  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 18.01.2016 um 23:52 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek:
>> In 2.18,
>> 
>> Tuplet - no number\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
> 
> Setting the stencil to ##f is exactly what \omit does ;) (\omit already
> exists in 2.18).

A third option to your first two, which proves quite useful in my case- 
\once \undo \omit 

Thanks for the explanation!

Stan

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Re: tuplet number

[Malte Meyn]

Am 18.01.2016 um 23:46 schrieb Stanton Sanderson:
> How does one revert  \omit TupletNumber to allow the number to appear for a 
> specific tuplet?

There are two options:

1. If you want to omit only one TupletNumber you can use \once:
… \once \omit TupletNumber \tuplet …
2. Revert the \omit using \undo:
… \omit TupletNumber \tuplet … \undo \omit TupletNumber …

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Re: tuplet number

[Malte Meyn]

Am 18.01.2016 um 23:52 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek:
> In 2.18,
> 
> Tuplet - no number\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f

Setting the stencil to ##f is exactly what \omit does ;) (\omit already
exists in 2.18)

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tuplet number

[Stanton Sanderson]

How does one revert  \omit TupletNumber to allow the number to appear for a 
specific tuplet? In the following example, I would like to show the tupet 
number in the second measure. Thanks in advance.

Stan

\version "2.19.35"
 \relative c'' {
c   \omit TupletNumber   \tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
c  % \omit TupletNumber   
\tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
}


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Re: tuplet number

[Stanton Sanderson]

Mark 

Thanks for the very complete answer. Malte’s method ( \undo \omit TupletNumber 
) is almost too obvious! Both work exactly aa hoped.

Stan
> On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:52 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek <carsonm...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> Stan,
> 
> In 2.18,
> 
> Tuplet - no bracket   \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
> Tuplet - no number\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
> Tuplet - number   \revert TupletNumber #'stencil
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
> Stanton Sanderson
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 2:46 PM
> To: LilyPond Users <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
> Subject: tuplet number
> 
> How does one revert  \omit TupletNumber to allow the number to appear for a
> specific tuplet? In the following example, I would like to show the tupet
> number in the second measure. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Stan
> 
> \version "2.19.35"
> \relative c'' {
>c   \omit TupletNumber   \tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
>c  % \omit TupletNumber   
>\tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
> }
> 


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RE: tuplet number

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Stan,

In 2.18,

Tuplet - no bracket \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
Tuplet - no number  \override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
Tuplet - number \revert TupletNumber #'stencil

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Stanton Sanderson
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 2:46 PM
To: LilyPond Users <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
Subject: tuplet number

How does one revert  \omit TupletNumber to allow the number to appear for a
specific tuplet? In the following example, I would like to show the tupet
number in the second measure. Thanks in advance.

Stan

\version "2.19.35"
 \relative c'' {
c   \omit TupletNumber   \tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
c  % \omit TupletNumber   
\tuplet 3/2 {c4 b8} c4 c |
}


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Grace note kicks tuplet number away

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi all,

When cross staffing, I found that sometimes a grace note in the middle of
the beam causes the tuplet number to move absurdly higher or lower:

\version "2.19.32"
\markup{"ugly"}
\autochange {
  \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c, c''' c,] } 
}
\markup{"pretty"}
\autochange {
  \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, c, c, c''' c,] } 
}

producing:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n184567/45.png> 

Strangely enough, the skyline isn't affected at all:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n184567/40.png> 

Also, to show the dependency on the grace position, see:

\version "2.19.32"
\autochange {
  \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c, c, c''' c,] } 
  \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c, c''' c,] } 
  \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c''' c,] } 
}

producing:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n184567/07.png> 

Does anyone know if is there a way of avoiding this issue?

Cheers,
Gilberto



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Re: Grace note kicks tuplet number away

[Simon Albrecht]

Hello Gilberto,

it seems the feature announced in 
<http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/changes/index> (at about 
2/3, search for ‘knee-to-beam’) has been implemented without providing 
for this situation. So we should create a follow-up for 
<http://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/3831/>.


Yours, Simon

On 07.12.2015 21:08, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

Hi all,

When cross staffing, I found that sometimes a grace note in the middle of
the beam causes the tuplet number to move absurdly higher or lower:

\version "2.19.32"
\markup{"ugly"}
\autochange {
   \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c, c''' c,] }
}
\markup{"pretty"}
\autochange {
   \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, c, c, c''' c,] }
}

producing:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n184567/45.png>

Strangely enough, the skyline isn't affected at all:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n184567/40.png>

Also, to show the dependency on the grace position, see:

\version "2.19.32"
\autochange {
   \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c, c, c''' c,] }
   \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c, c''' c,] }
   \tuplet 7/4 { c,32[ c, c, c, \grace{ c,8 } c,32 c''' c,] }
}

producing:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n184567/07.png>

Does anyone know if is there a way of avoiding this issue?

Cheers,
Gilberto



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Re: Grace note kicks tuplet number away

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your quick reply.


Simon Albrecht-2 wrote
> it seems the feature announced in 
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/changes/index; (at
> about 
> 2/3, search for ‘knee-to-beam’) has been implemented without providing 
> for this situation. So we should create a follow-up for 
> http://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/3831/;.

I see, so that explains why all other tuplets behave normally: when I
override them using \override TupletNumber.knee-to-beam = ##f all tuplets
are moved upwards, so it seems the new algorithm isn't taking grace notes
into consideration. I added this information mentioned here, as well as a
link to this discussion, to the issue tracker, but my post is pending
moderation.

Cheers,
Gilberto



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Moving tuplet number

[Andrew Bernard]

How can you move a tuplet number to a different position relative to the centre 
of the bracket, say 75% along rather than 50%?

I can use X-offset for the TupletNumber, but this reveals the gap in the 
bracket that is the room for the number. How does one move that as well?

Andrew



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Re: Moving tuplet number

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Andrew,

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Andrew Bernard andrew.bern...@gmail.com
wrote:

 How can you move a tuplet number to a different position relative to the
 centre of the bracket, say 75% along rather than 50%?

 I can use X-offset for the TupletNumber, but this reveals the gap in the
 bracket that is the room for the number. How does one move that as well?


Sorry, I don't believe that this is possible in any convenient way.   The
routine that draws the tuplet bracket simply puts the gap halfway along,
regardless of the number's position.  Fixing this would involve patching
the C++ code.

You could instead write a Scheme callback for TupletBracket.stencil which
would use the tuplet number's X-extent to determine the gap's position.
You'd of course have to reconstruct the bracket from scratch.

--David
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Re: Moving tuplet number

[Thomas Morley]

Hi Andrew,

2015-03-30 17:06 GMT+02:00 David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com:
 Hi Andrew,

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Andrew Bernard andrew.bern...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 How can you move a tuplet number to a different position relative to the
 centre of the bracket, say 75% along rather than 50%?

 I can use X-offset for the TupletNumber, but this reveals the gap in the
 bracket that is the room for the number. How does one move that as well?


 Sorry, I don't believe that this is possible in any convenient way.   The
 routine that draws the tuplet bracket simply puts the gap halfway along,
 regardless of the number's position.  Fixing this would involve patching the
 C++ code.

 You could instead write a Scheme callback for TupletBracket.stencil which
 would use the tuplet number's X-extent to determine the gap's position.
 You'd of course have to reconstruct the bracket from scratch.

 --David

not sure what you aim at. An example is always helpful, especially for
a none native speaker like me. ;)

Though, maybe the following may help:

\version 2.19.17

\relative c' {
\override TupletNumber.Y-offset =
#(lambda (grob)
  (let ((dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction)))
   (+ (ly:tuplet-number::calc-y-offset grob)
  (* dir 0.75

\override TupletNumber.X-extent = #empty-interval

%\voiceTwo
%\voiceOne
\times 2/3 {
c2 c c
}
}


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Moving tuplet number

[Andrew Bernard]

Gentlemen, Thank You!

Here’s a simplified example of the horizontal shift of the tuplet number that I 
want to achieve. The key to it is the understanding of the use of the X-extent 
property. Thank you so much for your help.

\version 2.19.17

bass = \relative c {
  \time 1/4
  \clef bass

  \once \override TupletNumber.text = #tuplet-number::calc-fraction-text
  \once \override TupletBracket.bracket-visibility = ##t
  \once \override TupletNumber.whiteout = ##t
  \override Score.TupletNumber.layer = #3
  \once \override TupletNumber.X-offset = #14
  \once \override TupletNumber.X-extent = #empty-interval
  \tuplet 7/8 { c32 bes c dis c d ees }
}

\score {
  \new Staff = \bass
}

The score I am engraving is a New Complexity school work, and the issue in the 
full context is to shift the tuplet number to avoid a messy collision in an 
extremely subtle score. This is an excellent solution for what I am doing.

I wonder if this would be a useful LSR snippet?

Andrew

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Re: Moving tuplet number

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm, Andrew--

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Thomas Morley thomasmorle...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi Andrew,

 2015-03-30 17:06 GMT+02:00 David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com:
  Hi Andrew,
 
  On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Andrew Bernard 
 andrew.bern...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  How can you move a tuplet number to a different position relative to the
  centre of the bracket, say 75% along rather than 50%?
 
  I can use X-offset for the TupletNumber, but this reveals the gap in the
  bracket that is the room for the number. How does one move that as well?
 
 
  Sorry, I don't believe that this is possible in any convenient way.   The
  routine that draws the tuplet bracket simply puts the gap halfway along,
  regardless of the number's position.  Fixing this would involve patching
 the
  C++ code.
 
  You could instead write a Scheme callback for TupletBracket.stencil which
  would use the tuplet number's X-extent to determine the gap's position.
  You'd of course have to reconstruct the bracket from scratch.
 
  --David

 not sure what you aim at. An example is always helpful, especially for
 a none native speaker like me. ;)


He's wanting to move the number along the bracket and have the gap go with
it.  Right now the gap is always dead center.



 Though, maybe the following may help:

 \version 2.19.17

 \relative c' {
 \override TupletNumber.Y-offset =
 #(lambda (grob)
   (let ((dir (ly:grob-property grob 'direction)))
(+ (ly:tuplet-number::calc-y-offset grob)
   (* dir 0.75

 \override TupletNumber.X-extent = #empty-interval

 %\voiceTwo
 %\voiceOne
 \times 2/3 {
 c2 c c
 }
 }


Thanks, Harm--this gives me an idea!  Draw an unbroken bracket as you do
above, then add a whiteout box to the TupletNumber:

 \version 2.19.17

\relative c' {
  \override TupletNumber.X-extent = #empty-interval
  \override TupletNumber.stencil =
  #(lambda (grob)
 (let* ((stil (ly:tuplet-number::print grob))
(stil-X (ly:stencil-extent stil X))
(stil-X (interval-widen stil-X 0.5))
(stil-Y (ly:stencil-extent stil Y))
(box (make-transparent-box-stencil stil-X stil-Y))
(whiteout (stencil-whiteout box)))
   (ly:stencil-add whiteout stil)))

  \offset X-offset 1 TupletNumber
  \times 2/3 {
c2 c c
  }
  \offset X-offset -1 TupletNumber
  \times 2/3 {
c2 c' e
  }
}

%%
--David
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Tuplet Number Down

[Knute Snortum]

I want the tuplet number to be below the notes.  I am evidently doing
something wrong.

\version 2.18.2

  \language english

  \relative c' {

\override TupletNumber.direction = #DOWN

\tuplet 3/2 { c8 d c } c4 c c

  }

}

Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
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Re: Tuplet Number Down

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

2014-10-13 20:08 GMT+02:00 Knute Snortum ksnor...@gmail.com:

 I want the tuplet number to be below the notes.  I am evidently doing
 something wrong.


Try :

\version 2.18.2
\language english
\relative c' {
  \tweak direction #DOWN
  \tuplet 3/2 { c8 d c } c4 c c
}

HTH,
Pierre
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Re: Tuplet Number Down

[Urs Liska]

The point of this is you don't want the tuplet *number* down but the whole 
thing.


Am 13. Oktober 2014 20:13:01 MESZ, schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider 
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com:
2014-10-13 20:08 GMT+02:00 Knute Snortum ksnor...@gmail.com:

 I want the tuplet number to be below the notes.  I am evidently doing
 something wrong.


Try :

\version 2.18.2
\language english
\relative c' {
  \tweak direction #DOWN
  \tuplet 3/2 { c8 d c } c4 c c
}

HTH,
Pierre




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Re: Tuplet Number Down

[Abraham Lee]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote:
The point of this is you don't want the tuplet *number* down but the 
whole thing.


Knute,

In other words, instead of TupletNumber, use TupletBracket. You can 
also use the shortcut \tupletDown :)


Regards,
Abraham

P.S. Can anyone tell us why TupletNumber supports the 'direction 
property at all? I tried them all (UP, DOWN, CENTER, RIGHT, LEFT) and 
it did nothing.
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Re: Tuplet Number Down

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Abraham,

2014-10-13 21:03 GMT+02:00 Abraham Lee tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com:


 P.S. Can anyone tell us why TupletNumber supports the 'direction property
 at all? I tried them all (UP, DOWN, CENTER, RIGHT, LEFT) and it did nothing.


I can't tell. Probably for historical reasons.
Actually, tuplet numbers are always placed according to the position of the
bracket, hidden or not. At least until v2.18.
Cheers,
Pierre
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Capped tuplet number

[Javier Ruiz-Alma]

Is it possible to add these caps to tuplet numbers?
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Fwd: Re: Capped tuplet number

[Malte Meyn]

I really should remember to always answer to the list ...

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Capped tuplet number
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2014 18:03:53 +0200
From: Malte Meyn lilyp...@maltemeyn.de
To: Javier Ruiz-Alma jav...@ruiz-alma.com

Of course it is. I don’t have an exact solution but I think one could
change the TupletNumber text to some \markup \center-column … You could
use the frown symbol from Unicode (U+2322). Or, instead of the
\center-column, you could try to use a combining inverted breve (U+0311)
or a similar symbol.

But why would you want that? For me these caps look like tuplet brackets
or slurs. But the Henle Urtext edition of Chopin’s first Ballade doesn’t
show slurs in bar 183, so I tend towards “probably these are tuplet
brackets”.

On 03.07.2014 17:52, Javier Ruiz-Alma wrote:

Is it possible to add these caps to tuplet numbers?



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Re: help on improving (kneed-beam tuplet-number) function

[David Nalesnik]

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:05 PM, David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.comwrote:


 I've got a newer version of this which allows you to make adjustments to
 the position of the tuplet number along the beam from the default centered
 position.  (This sometimes proves necessary when there's a collision.)
  I'll look around for it.


Found it!

Hopefully, the example should make it clear how to use the function.  (It
shows several examples of the tuplet number halfway along the beam and one
with the number displaced to the left.)

I've incorporated Harm's work with 'staff-space into the function, along
with a change to make it all work with 2.17.21.  (Though under Windows XP,
I've run into the problem with memory allocation, as for example when I
delete the \with block or set the fontsize to 0.)

--David


lsr-646-update.ly
Description: Binary data
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Re: help on improving (kneed-beam tuplet-number) function

[David Nalesnik]

oops--forgot to change the version statement back to 2.16.2.

--David
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help on improving (kneed-beam tuplet-number) function

[Karol Majewski]

Hi

Quite some time ago David Nalesnik wrote this amazing function:

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=646

The problem is that when I apply it to a staff with

{
  fontSize = #-3
  \override StaffSymbol #'staff-space = #(magstep -3)
}

... the tuplet numbers are still missplaced. My scheme programming skills are 
poor so I won't even try to improve this function. I'd be thankful if someone 
could do it... Perhaps it's not that difficult.

Best
KM



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Re: help on improving (kneed-beam tuplet-number) function

[Thomas Morley]

2013/7/9 Karol Majewski karo...@wp.pl:
 Hi

 Quite some time ago David Nalesnik wrote this amazing function:

 http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=646

 The problem is that when I apply it to a staff with

 {
   fontSize = #-3
   \override StaffSymbol #'staff-space = #(magstep -3)
 }

 ... the tuplet numbers are still missplaced. My scheme programming skills are 
 poor so I won't even try to improve this function. I'd be thankful if someone 
 could do it... Perhaps it's not that difficult.

 Best
 KM

Hi Karol,

I suppose you're on 2.16.2, otherwise you would have complained more. ;)

Anyway, attached an improved snippet taking staff-space into account.
Hope it's ok, I did some poor tests only.

Comments in code. Also, a hint to make it work with 2.17.


HTH,
  Harm


positioning-tuplet-numbers-close-to-kneed-beams-2-16.ly
Description: Binary data
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