Re: reasons why management don't want linux
> > > less software costs (one copy per engine vs one copy each for each >boxes) then > > > most other platforms. > > > > software costs lower. How many copies of Red Hat PC boxed set can >you buy > > for a VM license ;) > >How much is a SuSe Linux/390 distribution these days? A German user >told me yesterday that the cost is very far from insignificant. It can be downloaded at no charge. For a proper boxed distribution with CDs, Suse guy at Linuxworld last year quoted me IIRC $100. It wasn't very far from that figure at any rate. No idea what official Suse support costs are. Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: IBM's special expo at the start of LWE this year
I'll have a wander round the expo; 'no budget for the rest this year' :( Mike >Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers > >Has anyone who has registered to attend the event(s), gotten their >registration materials, as of Friday? I have not. I am looking forward >to Tuesday's mail, as the Monday is a holiday here. Regardless of that >fact, who on this list, has registered, besides myself? A show of >virtual hands please. >--- >Gregg C Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi >"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi >(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) >(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) http://www.corestore.org _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: reasons why management don't want linux
snip.. >It may not be a question of SuSE-on-S/390 versus no Linux-on-S/390, you >know. Further, it may well be going into a shop that wants to run Linux >on Intel boxes as well. Those shops usually want to use a single >vendor's Linux distributions across their platforms. There is at least >one distributor that lets you do this for evaluation purposes free of >charge. > >While Linux, pretty nearly, is Linux, it is quite useful to be able to >actually run it on the candidate platform. > >Further, I think the idea of a $4500 evaluation license is simply silly, >especially since you include support with it. If it's an *evaluation* >license, what do I need the support for? A much cheaper, no-support >license would be much more appropriate for evaluation purposes. "Can't >get it running without needing the support I haven't paid for," is >certainly a viable evaluation result, and would tell the evaluator a lot >about the ease of installation of the product. > >Adam Excuse me folks, I think there's something we've all forgotten here: this is a *Linux* distribution we're talking about here. You know, Linux, - that OS which is distributed under the GPL. Even if Suse won't sell media kits without support, refuse to make it available for free download etc, there's still nothing to prevent anyone who aquires a copy from making it available for free, 'as a service to the community'! The only questionmark is over YaST, which is under a Suse license, not GPL, but even that isn't a problem - my YaST license specifically states: 'All programmes derived from YaST, and all works derived thereof as a whole or parts thereof may only be disseminated with the amended sources and this licence in accordance with 2b). Making YaST or works derived thereof available free of charge together with SuSE Linux on FTP Servers and mailboxes is permitted if the licences on the software are observed.' It also states: 'It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. ' Note the words 'for payment'. If a site has got a copy of the latest Suse S/390 GA, there is nothing I can see to prevent them from making it available to one and all via FTP, or indeed from copying and distributing the media so long as they don't charge. I submit that this is a storm in a teacup, and Suse have made an error of judgment in trying to restrict distribution of *Linux*! It ain't called the GPV for nothing :-) A $4,500 evaluation license for Linux Perish the thought! Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: What happened to Linuxvm.Org?
>What happened to www.linuxvm.org? I just visited the site and found it >was a home page for Velocity Software. > >Is my memory failing and the url is really something else? > >? Nope that's correct and it really is Velocity: Registrant: Velocity Software, Inc. (LINUXVM2-DOM) 196-D Castro Street Mountain View, CA 94041 US Domain Name: LINUXVM.ORG They have linuxvm.com also. I guess whoever used to own those domains sold them to Velocity recently? - shows 'record updated' as 4th January. Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: SuSE: Announcement of beta, trial and evaluation versions of SuSE Linux Enterprise Server for S/390 and zSeries
snip... >The download location for the latest SuSE Linux Enterprise Server is: >ftp://nozzle.suse.de/pub/suse/s390/sles7-beta/31-bit/cd1/ >ftp://nozzle.suse.de/pub/suse/s390/sles7-beta/31-bit/cd2/ > > >Trial versions are based on the GA version of the current SLES versions. >Under >a special agreement you may use SuSE Linux Enterprise Server for S/390 and >zSeries for sixty (60) calendar days for testing purposes (e.g. proof of >concept). Trial versions must not be used in production, and they must not >be >redistributed. Installation support is not included in the trial version. sounds reasonable... except of course much of the distro is under GPL or other open-source licenses and the above conditions don't apply. Can you give a couple of examples of commonly-used bits which ARE provided under different licences, to which the above applies? Also, there's no mention of a charge for the 60-day trial version, or a location where it can be obtained... the only stuff on the Suse site I can find is the beta mentioned above, and the November GA release. Mike http://www.corestore.org _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: GNU Public Licence
snip... >b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, >that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the >Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at >no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. > >It seems quite clear to me that no one can charge extra for a >distribution that contains their own software, since that is obviously >a 'work' within the terms of the GNU Public Licence 2(b). I think you don't quite get the distinction between 'program' and 'distribution'. If I take the source code of, say the kernel itself, which is released under the GPL, and tweak it to produce the 'ross-super-kernel', I must release that under the GPL (if I choose to release it at all) - I can charge what I like for it, but what I can't do is take away the source, redistribution, and modification rights the GPL gives. Suse can tweak the kernel to produce the 'suse-super-kernel', and that likewise must be GPLed, BUT there's nothing to stop them from distributing that with YAST (which is entirely their own work) and putting whatever terms they like in the YAST license, up to and including a demand for you Eldest Son. In summary, the GPL is infective vertically but not horizontally. A distro may contain many different 'works' with different license terms, they do not interact. What you *can't* do is put an overall license or condition on the entire distribution which supercedes the terms of licenses (such as the GPL) under which individual components are distributed... my concern is that Suse are trying to give the impression that they can, or to achieve this end 'by the back door'. What >surprises me is that the word 'must' in 2(b) also seems to preclude a >bundled maintenance contract. Anyone adding value (under the terms of >2(b)) MUST (my emphasis) license their 'work' AS A WHOLE (my emphasis) >to me at no charge - and if I refuse their maintenance contract, they >still MUST license the 'work' at no charge no matter how much effort >they've put into it. No, maintenance is a seperate issue, not covered by GPL. And no-one ever MUST distribute under the GPL - they can sit on their code as long as like. But if they distribute it to just *one* person, that person is free to distribute it as they like - for a charge, or at no charge. And so on to the next person. >One wonders how you're supposed to make any money at this game. It's >obvious from "... in whole or in part contains or is derived from ..." >that you can add just as much "pay software" as you like - the result >still has to be shipped at no charge. No, they can charge what they like, always. What they *can't* do is restrict redistribution of GPL or similar software - *that's* why it can be hard to make money from Linux sales! :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: GNU Public Licence
snip.. >I'm not actually saying anything different. I wish SuSE well in their >efforts to sell maintenance and support - it's a major requirement for >corporate acceptance. Agreed entirely. Remember though, the nice thing about open-source is that, if you're a big/confident enough outfit, you're free to turn down the support contract from Vendor X, hire/train programmers, and bring it all in house. Not saying many would want to, but it's always there - you have the source, you have control. >Well, if their 'stuff' (YAST in your example) is not based on any GPL >licensed material in any way, then they have the full force of the law >behind them in restricting distributon of that. Given that their >audience is the corporate user and the physical medium will have a >mixture of stuff on it, the likelihood of redistribution is >vanishingly tiny - I would say they have nothing to worry about. Perfectly correct. Suse Linux (which is my favourite commercial distro btw, in spite of my reservations about their attitude to distributing S/390) wouldn't be a great deal of use without YAST! And AFAIK (and I don't very much - I may be very wrong) YAST is the only thing on the CDs which comes under a Suse-controlled license It is interesting to note however that the license terms for YAST only prevent its redistribution financially - you can't charge for it. Suse DO have 'the full force of law', they could easily have written a 'no redistribution at all' license for YAST, but they *didn't* - they specifically allowed it to be copied, modified, or made available for download freely, so long as you don't charge for it - they are the only folks who can make money off it, which is good and right. Mike _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: SuSE: Announcement of beta, trial and evaluation versions of SuSE Linux Enterprise Server for S/390 and zSeries
> > > > Under a special agreement you may use SuSE Linux Enterprise Server > > > > for S/390 and zSeries for sixty (60) calendar days for testing > > > > purposes (e.g. proof of concept). Trial versions must not be used in > > > > production, and they must not be redistributed. > > > > > isn't this a violation of section 6 of the GPL? > > > > The trial and evaluation versions contain "pay"-series software. > > > >I don't care about the payware. I do value the opportunity to freely >download and use Linux for my own purposes on my own terms. > >I may download and try other distributions, I will not do so with SuSE >on the terms outlined. Folks, I suggest we all hold fire on this one. I dropped in at Linuxworld New York at lunchtime and spoke to one of the Suse guys. He was *not* happy - this is apparently a 'rogue', possibly even unauthorised, press release, which may be badly-worded, inaccurate, or both. I suggest we await developments. Oh BTW - as far as I can make out, the issue of downloading a tryout of Suse 390 GA doesn't arise, it will only be available as a no-charge CD set, and the 'no production use' will be in the nature of a 'gentlemans agreement'. Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: SuSE: Announcement of beta,trial and evaluation versions of SuSE Linux Enterprise Server for S/390 andzSeries
>I just couldn't pass this one up... > > > The download location for the latest SuSE Linux Enterprise Server is: > > ftp://nozzle.suse.de/pub/suse/s390/sles7-beta/31-bit/cd1/ > > ftp://nozzle.suse.de/pub/suse/s390/sles7-beta/31-bit/cd2/ > > >OK, we are going to download this from a FTP site. That's the *beta*. Not production-quality GA. > > Trial versions are based on the GA version of the current SLES >versions. Under > > a special agreement you may use SuSE Linux Enterprise Server for S/390 >and > > zSeries for sixty (60) calendar days for testing purposes (e.g. proof >of > > concept). Trial versions must not be used in production, and they must >not be > > redistributed. Installation support is not included in the trial >version. > > >Now, wait for this... > > > After the 60-days trial period you might decide to purchase the full >product, > > or you return the software back to SuSE. > > >RETURN YOUR SOFTWARE BACK TO SUSE? > >Just what are we suppose to do? Upload the software back? N... re-read the press release (which as I commented earlier may well be unofficial and inaccurate, based on conversation with a Suse guy at Linuxworld). There are three 'test' options: download the beta, get GA on a free 60-day trial on CDROM, or get GA on a 6-month evaluation, with support, for $500. Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: SuSE: Announcement of beta,trial and evaluation versions of SuSELinux Enterprise Server for S/390 andzSeries
>I did reread the press release. It says "After the 60-days trial period >you >might decide to purchase the full product, or you return the software back >to >SuSE". > >Now, since you downloaded it, to return the software, are you suppose to >upload >it? > >(You must be working too muchno sense of humor ). Actually I'm full of a lousy rotten stinking cold and not firing on all cylinders. However: Re-read again! The sixty-day trial is an offer to try out the *current GA production release* at no charge for sixty days. This software is only available on CDROM - it can't be downloaded. You are also free to try the latest beta release, which *can* be downloaded, from the ftp given. That's a different release - it's beta, it's not GA, not production quality, (although I believe it's a pretty damn good beta), and the only support is an email address for bug reports . No sixty-day limit, and *obviously* you don't have to return it! :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: Linux/390 Community Members
Mark, Don't know if I qualify as more than a very occasional member of the community, but if you want a pic try my website at http://www.corestore.org/intro.html The least bad pics are to be found on the 'wedding photos' page! Cut paste and edit as you wish. Mike >For some time now, I've been wondering what a lot of the people that >participate in the mailing list look like. I've found that when you have a >visual image of someone that it's easier to relate to them as a person, >when >you only communicate via email. So, I've been trying to get pictures of >the >people who contribute to Linux/390, either through their work as >developers, >or by giving help in the mailing list (and of course, some do both!), so I >could put them on the linuxvm.org web site. > >I haven't gotten as many as I would like yet (only thirteen so far), but I >thought it was time to publish what I have. I'm missing a photograph for a >couple of people, and any biographical text for a couple others, but I >think >its a good start. Hopefully this will be an incentive to the people who >haven't responded at all yet to get back to me with something. In a couple >of cases, if I don't receive something soon, I'm going to start making >things up about them! Remember, I'm going to be at SHARE in March, and you >might not like what shows up on the web site from there! > >I've added a link to "community members" page on the left side of the main >page under (oddly enough) the "Community" header. You can go directly >there >by clicking on http://linuxvm.org/community/ if you so desire. > >As always, I appreciate any constructive feedback people are willing to >share with me, so let me know what you think of this addition. > >Mark Post http://www.corestore.org _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: Linux/390 Community Members
> > http://www.corestore.org/intro.html > >THIS could be PROMISING. >When we all run out of work, we can swipe Mike's >gas turbine to power our surplus 9672s and 3090s and what not. That's my cunning plan... recently got in touch with a guy who's about to give up on restoring a 370/148 as he can't get the power to run the 400Hz converter... but these aircraft turbine generators push out 400Hz as standard... :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: VM for Intel?
>But that was my question. Since IBM and VMWare are partnering on this >effort, would IBM have contributed any sort of functionality lifted from >z/VM? If not, why the partnership? Romney has stated that there are going >to be certain conceptual similarities, and I realized that from the >beginning. I was curious about just _how much_ similarity was going to >wind >up being there. The main roadblock to VM-type systems on Intel is the lack of the hardware support (which has been added to mainframe over the years) for efficient virtualisation. SIE etc. >There's been some discussion in the past (I think David >Boyes brought it up) that there's no reason why z/VM couldn't emulate >non-S/390 instructions on an S/390. Well it might then be possible to run M$ code on an S/390... that's the best possible reason for never doing any such thing... More seriously, the question would have to be how and why? The performance would *suck* - why waste all those MF mips emulating an Intel chip? Mike _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
OK who messed with the redbook?
Some amusment over on the Hercules list - the 'Linux on S/390' Redbook, SG244987, originally contained a chapter on running Linux on the Hercules emulator. Not surprising - it's known to be used by quite a few folks inside IBM. As of (apparently) March 21st, the Redbook has been revised (without incrementing the version number, contrary to normal IBM practice), and *all* references to Hercules have been carefully expunged! Anyone with a clue what's going on? Suspicious of rewriting history! Mike _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: OK who messed with the redbook?
> > As of (apparently) March 21st, the Redbook has been revised (without > > incrementing the version number, contrary to normal IBM > > practice), and *all* > > references to Hercules have been carefully expunged! > > Anyone with a clue what's going on? Suspicious of rewriting history! > >Pure speculation, but I would guess that Hercules has gotten far enough up >into IBM's radar in terms of licensing and intellectual property >"borrowing" >that they may be compelled to do something about it, and publishing >information like this in a IBM-sponsored publication is tacitly encouraging >such activities so the lawyers probably jumped on someone's head and had >the redbook quickly revised before some smart sea-lawyer grabbed onto it as >a copyright/intellectual property dilution. There might be something in that, but it strikes me very much as 'locking the stable door' if that was the thought process which occured: the redbook in question has been out for over six months. Pulling the Hercules references now seems pointless. Also, if IBM had substantive IP concerns about Herc (and there's no reason to suspect that they do), they would go after Jay, Roger, and the lead developers, not just pull references from a redbook! >The question now in *my* head is whether IBM will make the intelligent >choice: a hobbyist license or certification of Hercules for purchase of a >regular license, or the dumb choice: unleashing the lawyers and trying to >have Hercules eliminated via legal action. Let's hope it's the former -- it >would do wonders for the acceptance of the 390 as a viable application >architecture again. That question has been in a lot of peoples heads for some time, and I can think of very few people who would disagree with you. If they were foolish enough to go for the latter option - use legal muscle to shut down a very successful open-source operation (or try to shut it down; it would just go overseas, it ain't going away!) - they would loose a hell of a lot of the goodwill capital they've built up in the open-source community. Mike _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: OK who messed with the redbook?
> > Some amusment over on the Hercules list - the 'Linux on S/390' Redbook, > > SG244987, originally contained a chapter on running Linux on the >Hercules > > emulator. Not surprising - it's known to be used by quite a few folks >inside > > IBM. > >It was, certainly. Is it still? I've no idea - but no reason to believe it isn't. I've heard recent anecdotal evidence that it is - apparently it's rather hard for IBM insiders to get hold of Flex. But this is just anecdote. > > As of (apparently) March 21st, the Redbook has been revised (without > > incrementing the version number, contrary to normal IBM practice), and >*all* > > references to Hercules have been carefully expunged! > >Clearing the decks for a 'Cease and Desist'. IBM can hardly issue one if >some of its own >documentation seems to sanction Hercules. It's come a bit late, too - back >in Autumn I posted >that I expected it in mid-February, but I guess lawyers get paid by the >hour. I wondered what had become of that prediction. And, I suspect IBM lawyers are on the payroll. As I said, it's locking the stable door six months too late if that's the way they are thinking. Not to mention the use that IBM has made/is making of Hercules internally. IANAL, but I can only imagine these two facts would not look good if IBM ever *did* try to make a legal case against Hercules. >Biggest amusement on the Hercules lists at the moment is Phil Roberts >trying to get me banned >from the FLEX-ES list for posting a link to some obscenties. It's not the biggest amusment IMHO, but I certainly agree with your sentiments! (What? I just agreed with Phil Payne!) To be fair, he seems to have a bigger issue with the FLEX-ES list itself, a 'commercial' list being hosted on a university system, paid for by his tax dollars is the way he puts it. And an offensive-sounding 'humour' list, ditto. The Hercules crowd are big on >censorship of dissenting viewpoints. We're not big on folks who have no constructive comments, have never helped develop or test, have repeated the same old complaint ad nauseum, and have never even used the frigging software! >He doesn't appear to realise that the original was not >only written by one of his Hercules cronies, but it's still in the Hercules >archives. > >Physician heal thyself. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/message/16259 is the original. >Tells you more >about the Hercules effort in one post than a year of reading would do. Tells you more about the ability of Phil Payne to provoke flames from mild-mannered programmers. If you want to learn something about the Hercules effort, use the software! Phil, you got flamed. Most folks think you earned it, even if it was OTT. Get over it. Suggest we tread carefully to keep this on-topic for Linux... Hercules issues, feel free to take them to email or hercules-advocacy list. Mike _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: OK who messed with the redbook?
snip.. >According to Jay's site the product is called: "The Hercules System/370, >ESA/390, and >z/Architecture Emulator". > >That's three IBM trademarks, right there. No, that's the *title* of the *page* Phil! It tells you what the page is about (Hercules) and what that is (it's a System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture Emulator). Then it gives more detail: 'Hercules is an open source software implementation of the mainframe System/370 and ESA/390 architectures, in addition to the new 64-bit z/Architecture. Hercules runs under Linux, Windows 98, Windows NT, and Windows 2000.' The software is called Hercules, Phil! And just to prove we're not taking the piss, we respect the trademarks with the standard disclaimer at the bottom of the page: 'IBM, System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture are trademarks or registered trademarks of IBM Corporation. Other product names mentioned here are trademarks of other companies.' Sorry Phil, clean miss. I won't allow misinformation, even off-topic, to stand uncorrected. Mike _ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: comp.os.linux.s390
There are several news servers that listen on additional ports to get around this very problem - teranews, for one, listens on port 25, and several ports in the 750X range. Mike >My concern is if this list is turned into a newsgroup, I won't be able to >access it from work. I'm not conversant with accessing newsgroups (Netscape >takes care of it at home), but I suspect that our firewall will block any >attempts to access one from inside (Too many porn ones to distract >employees.) > > > -Original Message- > > From: David Boyes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:59 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.s390 > > > > > This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a > > > world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.s390. > > > > Please DO NOT link this mailing list to a Usenet group, or do it only at > > your site as a gated mailing list! The S/N ratio is high, and I'd like >to > > keep it that way. > > > > -- db _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: The Fish flame: the final word
>From: Phil Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> snip... >Armed with your refusals, I placed Yahoo 'on notice' of both the obscenity >and the libel with >a "Notice and Take Down". I indicated that I had already contacted the >moderators and had met >only with blank refusals - I included the URLs of both of your statements. >They responded >with a case number, immediately deleted the item in question, and I suspect >the current delays >in updating the Hercules group(s) may be because Yahoo are themselves now >moderating every >post. Actually the delays in updating were because Yahoo sucks. Normal 'service' (for want of a better term) has been resumed. Phil has now succeded in getting Yahoo to delete the original flame, and every post referencing it. Fortunately Jay is hosting a copy at his web site, http://www.conmicro.cx/fish-flame.html - just in case anyone on this list hasn't read it and wants to know what the fuss is about! I really hope we can lay this to rest soon. Mike _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Missing redbook chapter found!
I've done the obvious and posted the 'missing' chapter from the Linux/390 redbook on the web for those who need it. 47Kb, .rtf format. It's at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/files/ Now, I *think* you may need to be a member of the Hercules list to get access to the files area, but that's no great hardship, anyone sufficiently interested in Linux on Hercules probably *should* be a member anyway. I would suggest and appeal to all members of the open-source & Linux/390 community, wherever you link to the IBM redbook, please point out that a Very Very Useful chapter is missing from the 'official' copy, and include a link to the above file. Who knows, maybe IBM will even see sense and admit it was petty, spiteful, and utterly pointless to remove the damn chapter in the first place - and put it back. Mike _ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: comp.os.linux.s390
>You miss the point. This is not some challenge for the edu-weenies or >script kiddies to surmount. >It is a company policy/rule. Though shalt not ... It doesn't make any >difference how you do it >or why, violating the policy is grounds for dismissal. > >As I said earlier, "I can neither read nor post to usenet newsgroups," not >that I >haven't figured out how yet! Fair enough... it was your '...I suspect that our firewall will block...' line that made me think the problem was technical: if you had said 'we aren't allowed to access usenet as a company policy' then I would have realised it was irrelevant what your firewall did or didn't block :-) In case of *real* extremis you can always do what I do; if you have broadband at home, configure a VNC server on your home PC to run on an 'always open' port; you can then connect to that and use your home system from work. Very few companies are knowedgeable enough, or paranoid enough, to specifically prohibit the use of VNC! Mike _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: Missing redbook chapter found!
>From: Phil Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I've done the obvious and posted the 'missing' chapter from the >Linux/390 > > redbook on the web for those who need it. 47Kb, .rtf format. > > > > It's at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/files/ > >Dangerous. I doubt very much that an entire chapter that is so specific to >one topic can be >copied and redistributed so widely under 'fair use'. Suspected piffle. IANAL, but I have some familiarity with the concept of 'fair use'. Various factors go towards deciding whether 'fair use' is infringing or not, including: Amount used - well we've posted around 20 pages from over 500. The usual rule of thumb (it may even be a rule of law?) is that up to 10% is ok. Even IBM have conceded that the removal of this chapter constituted such a small change that it didn't justify incrementing the version number. Is the use non-commercial? - Yes. It's very clearly educational, no-one is making any money from posting this. Does the 'fair use' affect the ability of the copyright holder to market the work? No, doubly. First, anyone downloading the missing chapter is undoubtedly still going to want to get the rest of the book from IBM. Two, IBM *give* the damn thing away in the first place! They don't make a dime from it! To quote a useful source on copyright law: "The purpose of fair use is twofold: to protect the copyright holder's market monopoly while preventing the market monopoly from being used to inhibit (rather than promote) learning" One might cite this as a textbook example of using fair use to 'prevent the market monopoly being used to inhibit learning' (removing the pages from the redbook certainly seems designed to inhibit learning!). see http://www.usg.edu/admin/legal/copyright/copy.html > > I would suggest and appeal to all members of the open-source & Linux/390 > > community, wherever you link to the IBM redbook, please point out that a > > Very Very Useful chapter is missing from the 'official' copy, and >include a > > link to the above file. Who knows, maybe IBM will even see sense and >admit > > it was petty, spiteful, and utterly pointless to remove the damn chapter >in > > the first place - and put it back. > >No one knows what IBM's reason was. It may not have been petty, spiteful >or pointless - it >may have had some quite specific and entirely reasonable justification. > >Acting to frustrate IBM's obvious and deliberate purpose in such a brazen >manner is >ill-advised at best and not likely to persuade it to even tolerate Hercules >with equanimity. Really? Either the Hercules project made a contribution to the writing of the redbook, or it didn't. Brazenly (but stealthily) removing all trace of this from the book, and 'revoking' the credit given seems pretty spiteful to me, and revisionist - an attempt to pretend they didn't use Hercules. >Hosting both links to profanity and copyright infringements on a Yahoo >group seems to be >inviting Yahoo to shut it down preremptorily - hardly prudent behaviour >with a resource that >is such an important part of the effort. The freedom to link is vital - e.g. the MPAA/2600/DECSS situation. Yahoo themselves link to all kinds of morally dubious products - porn, gambling, rip-off products of various types. Not in a position to take the moral high ground there! And as stated above, I see no reason to believe posting the missing pages to be infringing. In any case, there's a growing consensus amongst Herculeans to abandon Yahoo anyway - their service has really deteriorated recently. Mike _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: Yet Another IBM Conspiracy Theory... unmasked
My first post on this subject didn't make it through moderation... You can get a copy from IBM, on their Taiwanese website (the Redbook IS in English!) - go to: http://www2.tw.ibm.com/cgi-bin/db2www/techdoc/index.d2w/report You'll see it listed about four items up from the bottom. Click on it, and a download process will start, eventually - it's a bit slow. I've put a copy on my website in case it is 'disappeared' from the Taiwan site - http://www.corestore.org/sg245944.zip is where to get it, but go easy - my bandwidth isn't infinite! Mike http://www.corestore.org That's OK, but it's not the final, released version. That's a preliminary copy, hence the "redpiece" name in the directory. I would really like to see the final release version. Anyone else? Mark Post _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Yet Another IBM Conspiracy Theory
It's slow. Go to the second URL, looks for the redbook title (left side near bottom), click on it, eventually a little 'download' window (in Chinese) pops up, and the download starts automatically. Eventually. Let me know how it goes. Mike http://www.corestore.org Are you sure about that? If I try to access the first URL, it just bounces me to the second one. I may have been too slow. Mark Post -Original Message----- From: Mike Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 5:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Yet Another IBM Conspiracy Theory Fortunately it's still available from IBM Taiwan, who it seems aren't singing from quite the same hymnsheet as the folks in the USA :) http://www2.tw.ibm.com/cgi-bin/db2www/techdoc/check.d2w/report?No=194 See also http://www2.tw.ibm.com/cgi-bin/db2www/techdoc/index.d2w/report Grab it before the Revisionists erase it too... a copy will be going up at http://www.corestore.org/sg245944.zip but I don't have infinite bandwidth... Mike (CC'ed to Mark in case I'm still banned from posting to Linux-390) http://www.corestore.org >The book itself is not in the cache at Google, but I and a number of other >people have copies (I know it was one of the more popular downloads). > >But, I did come across a pointer this message, dated October 24 2002, on >the >IBM-Main listserv: >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvtype?MVS-OE.33139 > >It's Mike MacIsaac, the lead author of that book explaining that he's been >ordered not to talk about why the book and the software were removed. >Sigh. >Sometimes I really _want_ to be wrong, and this was one of them. > >Well, I'll offer to send a copy of the book to anyone that wants one, and >doesn't have it (it's a little under 3MB in size). Maybe Giorgio Bellussi >will host this one too, if enough people think it's worthwhile. > >Mark Post > >-Original Message- >From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >John Summerfield >Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 4:51 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Yet Another IBM Conspiracy Theory > > >On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Mark Post wrote: > > > Ok, now someone's stolen an entire Redbook, and all the Open Source >tools > > that came with it (at least as far as _I_ can tell). > > > > Someone sent me an offlist email indicating that the "Open Source >Software > > for z/OS and OS/390" Redbook has been made to disappear, as well as the > > software that it discusses. I checked the FTP server, and there was a > > readme.txt file there indicating that all the software had been moved to > > IBM's "UNIX Tools & Toys" web page, which was what I recalled had been >done > > with it. When I went to that page, though, there was a notice that said > > "The Ported Tools section is being serviced and is not available at this > > time." Now, just what that means is unclear to me, but taken with the > > Redbook being missing, it's rather odd. > > > > Does anyone know how long the Ported Tools section has been down for > > "service?" Does anyone know where to find the official copy of the >Redbook? > >Is this time to disseminate unofficial copies? > >Is it in the Google cache? > >-- > > >Cheers >John. > >Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at >http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Yet Another IBM Conspiracy Theory
Fortunately it's still available from IBM Taiwan, who it seems aren't singing from quite the same hymnsheet as the folks in the USA :) http://www2.tw.ibm.com/cgi-bin/db2www/techdoc/check.d2w/report?No=194 See also http://www2.tw.ibm.com/cgi-bin/db2www/techdoc/index.d2w/report Grab it before the Revisionists erase it too... a copy will be going up at http://www.corestore.org/sg245944.zip but I don't have infinite bandwidth... Mike (CC'ed to Mark in case I'm still banned from posting to Linux-390) http://www.corestore.org The book itself is not in the cache at Google, but I and a number of other people have copies (I know it was one of the more popular downloads). But, I did come across a pointer this message, dated October 24 2002, on the IBM-Main listserv: http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvtype?MVS-OE.33139 It's Mike MacIsaac, the lead author of that book explaining that he's been ordered not to talk about why the book and the software were removed. Sigh. Sometimes I really _want_ to be wrong, and this was one of them. Well, I'll offer to send a copy of the book to anyone that wants one, and doesn't have it (it's a little under 3MB in size). Maybe Giorgio Bellussi will host this one too, if enough people think it's worthwhile. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 4:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Yet Another IBM Conspiracy Theory On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Mark Post wrote: > Ok, now someone's stolen an entire Redbook, and all the Open Source tools > that came with it (at least as far as _I_ can tell). > > Someone sent me an offlist email indicating that the "Open Source Software > for z/OS and OS/390" Redbook has been made to disappear, as well as the > software that it discusses. I checked the FTP server, and there was a > readme.txt file there indicating that all the software had been moved to > IBM's "UNIX Tools & Toys" web page, which was what I recalled had been done > with it. When I went to that page, though, there was a notice that said > "The Ported Tools section is being serviced and is not available at this > time." Now, just what that means is unclear to me, but taken with the > Redbook being missing, it's rather odd. > > Does anyone know how long the Ported Tools section has been down for > "service?" Does anyone know where to find the official copy of the Redbook? Is this time to disseminate unofficial copies? Is it in the Google cache? -- Cheers John. Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Yet Another IBM Conspiracy Theory... light shed
Thanks for the good news Mike! I speak for myself and not for IBM. I should be working on CUPS and Samba printing, but this thread has created an itch I just have to scratch. I'll shed some light on the conspiracy theory, though you won't find a smoking gun :)) In October of this year, both the redbook and the code were pulled from IBM Web sites (apparently not as thoroughly as possible :) to be "serviced". Thanks for the update. I'm just rather perplexed at why such an apparently straightforward situation caused you to say (on IBM-MAIN): 'Indeed, the redbook and the associated code are no longer available. As to the reason, I was told what I could *not* say, but not what I could say, so you might guess as to the area of the business that decree came from.' That's a rather 'sinister' statement for a simple temporary withdrawal for update. I think you can understand where the conspiracy theory came from... given there have been other intimations of tension between open-sourcers and, shall we say, 'Luddites' in various bits of IBMs mainframe business? Like the folks who decided Hercules was an excellent development platform for Linux, and the folks who subsequently issued a Decree that It Never Happened... :) Mike _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: I got unsubscribed...
On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:03:19 +0100 Phil Payne said: >Subject: I got unsubscribed... > >People have been unsubscribed before, for reasons that no one ever had the guts to admit. Not on this list. If I do it, I'll admit to it. Generally it is bounces or out of office messages. I've never done anyone for content. I know Jay can be a red flag for you, but please keep the topic focused on the topic at hand. Without wishing to sound rude, balls. Phil is correct. I had occasion to post this to the Hercules list last year, at the time of the great 'IBM yanked all references to Hercules from the Linux/390 Redbook' debate: Subject: [hercules-390] Re: Posting the redbook Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:10:38 - From: "edamjr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well that went down like a lead balloon twelve hours after posting to the Linux-390 list that the missing chapter was available here, I was unsubscribed from the list. Not at my request. No warning, no discussion, not even the courtesy of a notification beyong the auto-generated 'unsubscribe' message. No-one on the [Linux-390] list knows I've been unsubscribed - there's been no 'announcement' on anything to do with this subject - so it hasn't been discussed there. Presume Mark Post did the deed, since it was done from an eds.com machine... I know Phil has also had the same treatment from Linux-390, so on this occasion I believe his ire is not directed at Jay. It has happened, more than once. Mike _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: so correct me if I am wrong
so correct me if i am wrong if you want to stay current with Linux (either Suse or RedHat) you are going to have to pay. I can't speak WRT RedHat, but with Suse you have a problem - they don't put the latest distro on their public ftp, you are reliant on 3rd parties if you want to download the lastest Suse distro. Suse will only sell you CDs, at a price. Anyone correct me if I am wrong? On a point of order, who *does* have SLES8 (or whatever the latest Suse is) available for download? Mike _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: so correct me if I am wrong
> so correct me if i am wrong > if you want to stay current with Linux (either Suse or RedHat) > you are going to have to pay. Yes. That's how they pay their bills. I was under the impression that they pay their bills primarily from the revenue stream they get for *support* - the GPL means they can't rely on revenue from selling *code* which can be freely redistributed? Mike _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: so correct me if I am wrong
I think YAST prevents you from doing so with SuSE, but I'm only going on hearsay. SuSE users are better-placed to suggest, but read the licence. YAST license permits free redistribution, but you can't charge. Maybe just the cost of the media if it's CD rather than FTP? Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: IFL speed.
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:27:30 -0600, Lucius, Leland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes, that's correct. The z900 uses the same processor chip as the z800, but it's clocked faster and better packaged. Think there's a jumper or two we could use on the z8s to overclock 'em? ;-) Unfortunately it's in the microcode. Fortunately I believe there's an 'underground' microcode patch you can tweak to 'fix' the 'problem' ;-) Mike -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: WTHOT: cinnamon rolls
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:49:54 -0500, Adam Thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 12:21:54PM -0600, Richard Troth wrote: Warning to all: The night Marilyn and I had some stew Dave had made (it was really good!) she went into labor with our first child. Presumably not *every* member of the L/390 community is going to meet the pre-reqs necessary for those conditions to apply. Too late, by a week... She Who Must Be Obeyed did the deed on Saturday :-) Mike, exhausted!
Re: SLES 8
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:43:56 +0100, Benny Thys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Our customer wants to install SuSE 8 (SLES 8) for S390 (working on a Multiprise 3000), does anyone know where it can be downloaded ? Benny Suse have chosen not to make it available on their FTP site. I think we have a copy someplace - if we do, I'll put it on my FTP site and post the location to the list. (This argument has been around before; I've checked the licenses, Suse don't make it available for free download, but there's nothing to stop anyone else redistributing it so long as they don't take money). Mike -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: SLES 8
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:14:05 -0600, Rich Smrcina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Then SuSE doesn't get compensated for their hard work, they stop making money and stop making a distribution. Who wins? This is Linux. Open-source. You can't make a business plan predicated on being able to raise revenue from selling the distro - unless you can sell in volume, shrink-wrapped, in CompUSA, to a certain predicatable percentage of those who use the distro. You make money from support - Suse charge a hefty per-engine fee, do they not? If Suse really wanted to prevent the complete distro from being redistributed, all they would have to do is change the Yast license terms from 'you can't charge for redistribution' to 'you can't redistribute'. I find the notion of seeking to restrict the distribution of open-source software, to make it hard to get hold of a copy, faintly amusing. Mike -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: SLES 8
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:14:36 +, Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 17:14, Rich Smrcina wrote: Then SuSE doesn't get compensated for their hard work, they stop making money and stop making a distribution. Who wins? *WHOSE* hard work Well said Alan.. Mike http://www.corestore.org -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: SLES 8
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:54:16 +0200, Tzafrir Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip.. * A major one: the distro is not worth much without the patches. What you download from that server is nice for testing, but it is still not enough for production, because it lacks, say, the latest sendmail patch. So if you try to install this server in a production environment, it will either break, or will be broken-into. And remember that the license of SuSE basically forbids everybody else to compit with SuSE in providing patches. So you basically have to have a support contract with SuSE. How exactly does that work? What license terms do Suse impose on, for instance, sendmail, in your example? I suspect the authors of sendmail might be surprised to discover that Suse forbid them to provide patches... The only 'license of SuSE' that's involved (AFAIK) is the Yast license... Mike -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Application Starterpack 3000?
Folks, Not sure how many of those IBM ever actually sold - I've spoken to a couple of hardware brokers who have handled hundreds of Multiprises but never *heard of* an Application Starterpack 3000... anyway, I'm looking for one. If anyone here knows someone who might be getting rid of one, or who knows a dealer/broker who might have one, please reply off-list. PS If you've never heard of ASP 3000 either, there's a page of pics of one at: http://linux.s390.org/gallery/ Thanks Mike http://www.corestore.org _ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
