Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Sat, 2006-10-28 at 02:32 -0400, Alan Altmark wrote: On Friday, 10/27/2006 at 04:12 ZE2, Martin Schwidefsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After the BogoMips number has entertained us once again I'm inclined to fix this stupid number. Yipee! :-) For replacement we could use the cpu capability that is reported by the store system information instruction in SYSIB 1.2.2. On our test system it reports a cpu capability of 1456 (System z type 2094 model 738/S38). The bogomips number is between ~3400 and ~4000 dependent on the phase of the moon and the my caffeine-level. With the attached patch the same number is report every time. Makes sense, doesn't it ? Is it possible to call it the BogoFactor instead of BogoMIPS? Esp. since there is no formal definition of the CPU Capability? At least the bogomips entry in the /proc/cpuinfo interface is fixed, we cannot just change it. I would leave it as it is. It seems that you should apply the adjustment factors and select the Primary, Secondary, or Alternate CPU capability as appropriate. Also, to quote the book, a lower value indicates a proportionally higher CPU capacity. Beyond that, there is no formal description of the algorithm used to generate this value. Hmmm... lower value ... hmmm From that I infer that it is related to cycle time in some undefined way, but that a value of 0 would represent an infinitely capable CPU. (I know, I'm making big leaps in my assumptions.) Arg, the cpu capacity gets lower for faster machines! Now I finally have understood why they introduced a floating point number in the interface. Lower value, that makes the number useless for bogomips. I'd have to invent some calculation like 100 / cpu capacity. BTW, I *love* the 42 answer on a Really Old Machine! But that would indicate a really fast machine! I can't use 42 as the answer for old machines.. too bad ;-) -- blue skies, Martin. Martin Schwidefsky Linux for zSeries Development Services IBM Deutschland Entwicklung GmbH Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
BTW, I *love* the 42 answer on a Really Old Machine! But that would indicate a really fast machine! I can't use 42 as the answer for old machines.. too bad ;-) 2.71828, aka e. After all, you guys spent all that money trademarking eServer for those machines. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 11:42 -0500, David Boyes wrote: BTW, I *love* the 42 answer on a Really Old Machine! But that would indicate a really fast machine! I can't use 42 as the answer for old machines.. too bad ;-) 2.71828, aka e. After all, you guys spent all that money trademarking eServer for those machines. But 2.71828 would be even faster than 42 .. -- blue skies, Martin. Martin Schwidefsky Linux for zSeries Development Services IBM Deutschland Entwicklung GmbH Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
2.71828, aka e. After all, you guys spent all that money trademarking eServer for those machines. But 2.71828 would be even faster than 42 .. Oy, now you want reality and comparability and all that...some people...geez. IF you want a bigger number, make it e billion. In the IPO filing for Google, in 2004, rather than a typical round-number amount of money, the company announced its intention to raise $2,718,281,828, which is e billion dollars to the nearest dollar. Read up on the properties of e and other cool math stuff at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_(mathematical_constant) . -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Martin Schwidefsky wrote: On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 11:42 -0500, David Boyes wrote: BTW, I *love* the 42 answer on a Really Old Machine! But that would indicate a really fast machine! I can't use 42 as the answer for old machines.. too bad ;-) 2.71828, aka e. After all, you guys spent all that money trademarking eServer for those machines. But 2.71828 would be even faster than 42 .. How about this: 1. Calculate the number, as at present. 2. Print the model number, from CPUID. Now, that would be _really_ bogus! Especially under Hercules. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Friday, 10/27/2006 at 04:12 ZE2, Martin Schwidefsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After the BogoMips number has entertained us once again I'm inclined to fix this stupid number. Yipee! For replacement we could use the cpu capability that is reported by the store system information instruction in SYSIB 1.2.2. On our test system it reports a cpu capability of 1456 (System z type 2094 model 738/S38). The bogomips number is between ~3400 and ~4000 dependent on the phase of the moon and the my caffeine-level. With the attached patch the same number is report every time. Makes sense, doesn't it ? Is it possible to call it the BogoFactor instead of BogoMIPS? Esp. since there is no formal definition of the CPU Capability? It seems that you should apply the adjustment factors and select the Primary, Secondary, or Alternate CPU capability as appropriate. Also, to quote the book, a lower value indicates a proportionally higher CPU capacity. Beyond that, there is no formal description of the algorithm used to generate this value. Hmmm... lower value ... hmmm From that I infer that it is related to cycle time in some undefined way, but that a value of 0 would represent an infinitely capable CPU. (I know, I'm making big leaps in my assumptions.) BTW, I *love* the 42 answer on a Really Old Machine! Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Indeed. Jaffe's Conjecture usually kicks into play. Jon snip A drama generally does not have a totally predictable outcome. Jon, I know that YOU know what happens to threads there that go on to long! :-) /snip -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 13:28 -0400, Alan Altmark wrote:
On Thursday, 10/26/2006 at 09:52 AST, Richard Troth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus.
It's a useless number.
He says, as if MIPS were not also a useless number. :-)
(yawn...scratch..scratch) So, I'm curious. Does that mean bogomips
has, like, O(n**2) level of bogocity? Kul.
After the BogoMips number has entertained us once again I'm inclined to
fix this stupid number. The only place where we use the result of the
bogomips calculation is in __spin_lock_debug(). Any number roughly in
the same range as the bogomips number will do for __spin_lock_debug().
For replacement we could use the cpu capability that is reported by the
store system information instruction in SYSIB 1.2.2. On our test system
it reports a cpu capability of 1456 (System z type 2094 model 738/S38).
The bogomips number is between ~3400 and ~4000 dependent on the phase of
the moon and the my caffeine-level. With the attached patch the same
number is report every time. Makes sense, doesn't it ?
--
blue skies,
Martin.
Martin Schwidefsky
Linux for zSeries Development Services
IBM Deutschland Entwicklung GmbH
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin.
--
Index: arch/s390/Kconfig
===
RCS file: /home/cvs/linux-2.5/arch/s390/Kconfig,v
retrieving revision 1.65
diff -u -r1.65 Kconfig
--- arch/s390/Kconfig 24 Oct 2006 12:04:11 - 1.65
+++ arch/s390/Kconfig 27 Oct 2006 13:41:49 -
@@ -26,10 +26,6 @@
bool
default y
-config GENERIC_CALIBRATE_DELAY
- bool
- default y
-
mainmenu Linux Kernel Configuration
config S390
Index: drivers/s390/sysinfo.c
===
RCS file: /home/cvs/linux-2.5/drivers/s390/sysinfo.c,v
retrieving revision 1.8
diff -u -r1.8 sysinfo.c
--- drivers/s390/sysinfo.c 20 Sep 2006 08:52:54 - 1.8
+++ drivers/s390/sysinfo.c 27 Oct 2006 13:41:49 -
@@ -9,6 +9,7 @@
#include linux/mm.h
#include linux/proc_fs.h
#include linux/init.h
+#include linux/delay.h
#include asm/ebcdic.h
struct sysinfo_1_1_1 {
@@ -351,3 +352,26 @@
__initcall(create_proc_sysinfo);
+/*
+ * calibrate the delay loop
+ */
+void __init calibrate_delay(void)
+{
+ struct sysinfo_1_2_2 *info = (void *) get_zeroed_page (GFP_KERNEL);
+ unsigned int capability;
+
+ if (stsi(info, 1, 2, 2) == -ENOSYS)
+ /*
+* Really old machine without stsi block for basic
+* cpu information. Report 42.0 bogomips.
+*/
+ capability = 42;
+ else
+ capability = info-capability;
+ loops_per_jiffy = capability * (50/HZ);
+ free_page((unsigned long) info);
+ /* Print the good old Bogomips line .. */
+ printk(KERN_DEBUG Calibrating delay loop (skipped)...
+ %lu.%02lu BogoMIPS preset\n, loops_per_jiffy/(50/HZ),
+ (loops_per_jiffy/(5000/HZ)) % 100);
+}
--
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Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Martin Schwidefsky wrote: Makes sense, doesn't it ? To me, it does. Interresting default value :-). -- Carsten Otte has stopped smoking: Ich habe in 5 Monate, 2 Tage und 23 Stunden schon 748,66 Euro gespart anstatt 3.119,44 Zigaretten zu kaufen. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Martin Schwidefsky wrote: On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 13:28 -0400, Alan Altmark wrote: On Thursday, 10/26/2006 at 09:52 AST, Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus. It's a useless number. He says, as if MIPS were not also a useless number. :-) (yawn...scratch..scratch) So, I'm curious. Does that mean bogomips has, like, O(n**2) level of bogocity? Kul. After the BogoMips number has entertained us once again I'm inclined to fix this stupid number. The only place where we use the result of the Gah! What will future generations do to entertain themselves? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Wouldn't be the Linux bogomips a good comparison parameter, since it comes in all Linux flavors? No. The bogomips number is determined by the result of a short timing loop, which is directly dependent on how much CPU is available to that specific virtual machine at the time it executes. You will get dramatically different numbers every time it runs if you are running in a shared resource environment like z/VM. Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus. It's a useless number. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Wouldn't be the Linux bogomips a good comparison parameter, since it comes in all Linux flavors? As the name indicates, the bogus bogomips rating is a very good indicator for comparing CPU performance. See this HowTo document for details: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/BogoMips/ so long, Carsten -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus. It's a useless number. He says, as if MIPS were not also a useless number. :-) -- R; -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Fargusson.Alan wrote:
Realize that MIPS actually means Misleading Indicator of Processor Speed.
I usually use a multiplier of .5 for CISC machines, which turns out about right
in most cases. For example someone recently posted that the clock is .8 GHz
for a z890 (which is 800 MHz), and that the MIPS is about 365. Most RISK
machines are about .7, and superscalar machines can be 2 to 3 instructions per
cycle.
Komputer?
There is a book by Henesy (sp?) and Peterson that talks about this in great
depth.
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LJ
Mace
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:39 AM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
I've been asked this question and have looked around
but can't seem to find an answer.
Consider the impact of optional features.
Floating-point and decimal arithmetic were optional features on early
S/360 models. I gather certain features (eg cryptographic?) are optional
on current zSeries.
We used a third-party firmware upgrade to make our S/370 model 145
functionally equivalent to a 148 for a 10%-30% improvement in performance.
VM works better with firmware assists.
In the 80s IBM reportedly implemented firmware assists for dfsort (and
maybe other software), improving its performance wrt syncsort, and
(probably) the S/370s wrt the PCM crowd.
To most people, the important measure is how well their C, Pl/1, COBOL
and Java programs run; the number of machine instructions run is only
one component of the equation; language and compiler are immensely
important too.
Programs compiled with Intel's icc (C compiler) reportedly run rings
around gcc on IA32 and IA64 computers. Different releases of gcc perform
differently, and probably relativities between hardware architectures
change from release to release: improved code generation for (say)
Pentium IV might not be matched by an equivalent improvement on zSeries,
Power* or *Sparc*.
Processor family is important; recent Intel IA32 processors clock way
below early Pentium IVs running at 3 Ghz or so, but have better
performance. One expects Xeons to outperform equivalently-clocked
Pentium* processors, and AMD processors, for a while at least,
outperformed Intel's processors.
Here's a crude test; I've published it here a few times in the past.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ cat bin/bm.perl
#!/usr/bin/perl
#use integer;
$i = 0;
while ($i 1)
{
$j = 0;
while ($j 1)
{
++$j;
}
++$i;
}
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$
Run it again without use integer commented out. Try it on different
computers.
I have here a Pentium IV 3.0, with hyperthreading enabled. It can run a
copy on each virtual CPU faster than my Sempron 2500+.
Consider too, the workload. I'd expect more IPS on z zSeries running
z/OS, COBOL (or Pl/1) applications against IMS than the same machine
running zlinux, PHP and DB2.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/
Please do not reply off-list
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Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Thursday, 10/26/2006 at 09:52 AST, Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus. It's a useless number. He says, as if MIPS were not also a useless number. :-) (yawn...scratch..scratch) So, I'm curious. Does that mean bogomips has, like, O(n**2) level of bogocity? Kul. -- Chuckie -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
OT:Re: [LINUX-390] what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Correct spelling of bogosity... http://www.cartalk.com/content/read-on/2006/09.16.html Apparently to get an accurate measurement of bogosity one would require a bogometer. Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 10/26/2006 01:28 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [LINUX-390] what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back On Thursday, 10/26/2006 at 09:52 AST, Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus. It's a useless number. He says, as if MIPS were not also a useless number. :-) (yawn...scratch..scratch) So, I'm curious. Does that mean bogomips has, like, O(n**2) level of bogocity? Kul. -- Chuckie -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
And remember that here, unlike some shop, BOGO != Buy One, Get One free -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Warren Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:37 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: OT:Re: [LINUX-390] what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back Correct spelling of bogosity... http://www.cartalk.com/content/read-on/2006/09.16.html Apparently to get an accurate measurement of bogosity one would require a bogometer. Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 10/26/2006 01:28 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [LINUX-390] what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back On Thursday, 10/26/2006 at 09:52 AST, Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus. It's a useless number. He says, as if MIPS were not also a useless number. :-) (yawn...scratch..scratch) So, I'm curious. Does that mean bogomips has, like, O(n**2) level of bogocity? Kul. -- Chuckie -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
OT: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Thursday, 10/26/2006 at 01:37 AST, Jeremy Warren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correct spelling of bogosity... Hey. I had only 2.5 hours of sleep last night, and had to get up early to to the airport. Besides, whaddaya think this is? IBM-MAIN? ;-) -- Chuckie -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
linux-390 = comedy IBM-MAIN = drama Jon snip Hey. I had only 2.5 hours of sleep last night, and had to get up early to to the airport. Besides, whaddaya think this is? IBM-MAIN? ;-) /snip -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
IBM-Main = Soap Opera, not drama. A drama generally does not have a totally predictable outcome. Jon, I know that YOU know what happens to threads there that go on to long! :-) Bob Richards -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Brock Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:18 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back linux-390 = comedy IBM-MAIN = drama Jon snip Hey. I had only 2.5 hours of sleep last night, and had to get up early to to the airport. Besides, whaddaya think this is? IBM-MAIN? ;-) /snip -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. SunTrust and Seeing beyond money are federally registered service marks of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: OT:Re: [LINUX-390] what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Jeremy Warren wrote: Correct spelling of bogosity... http://www.cartalk.com/content/read-on/2006/09.16.html Apparently to get an accurate measurement of bogosity one would require a bogometer. I prefer bogocity. Bogocity is near Robocity. Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 10/26/2006 01:28 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [LINUX-390] what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back On Thursday, 10/26/2006 at 09:52 AST, Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note the existence of bogo in the word -- for bogus. It's a useless number. He says, as if MIPS were not also a useless number. :-) (yawn...scratch..scratch) So, I'm curious. Does that mean bogomips has, like, O(n**2) level of bogocity? Kul. -- Chuckie -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Hi all, Wouldn't be the Linux bogomips a good comparison parameter, since it comes in all Linux flavors? Please people, don't get angry with me. I am just raising some measure units (and understand what that bogomips means anyway ;-) Regards. - Ulisses de Sousa Penna Analista Consultor - Banco do Brasil Fone: +55-61-3310-6320 Fax: +55-61-3310-6435 - -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
No. Bogomips seems even less reliable then MIPS ratings. I know that is hard to believe, but the bogomips measure is affected by things like virtualization, and various other factors. Virtualization can cause bogomips ratings to vary from time to time on the same system. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ulisses Penna Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:25 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back Hi all, Wouldn't be the Linux bogomips a good comparison parameter, since it comes in all Linux flavors? Please people, don't get angry with me. I am just raising some measure units (and understand what that bogomips means anyway ;-) Regards. - Ulisses de Sousa Penna Analista Consultor - Banco do Brasil Fone: +55-61-3310-6320 Fax: +55-61-3310-6435 - -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 18:24 -0300, Ulisses Penna wrote: Wouldn't be the Linux bogomips a good comparison parameter, since it comes in all Linux flavors? To compare what? Processors run at different rates depending on what instructions they are executing. There are cache effects, pipeline effects, storage bandwidth considerations. A tiny loop might run faster on machine 'A' than on machine 'B', while an unrolled version of the same code would run faster on machine 'B'. I don't know what bogomips measures, but it should be easy to find using Google code search. Go see what it's measuring and decide if that is a useful metric for your purposes. Please people, don't get angry with me. Nobody's angry, and these are not silly questions. We'd all like to be able to measure processors to decide which is better, if for no other reason than to keep the salesmen honest. But is a Maserati better than a Mack truck? Depends on what you want to do. I challenge you to come up with a single bogomips-like number that compares a Maserati to a Mack truck in any meaningful way. -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
I've been asked this question and have looked around but can't seem to find an answer. thanks in advance Mace __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
There is no real reliable conversion, Mace. Different instructions use different numbers of cycles, so it depends very much on your instruction mix.. To convert from GHz to cycle time, simply invert. Regards From: Linux on 390 Port on behalf of LJ Mace Sent: Tue 2006-10-24 15:38 To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back I've been asked this question and have looked around but can't seem to find an answer. thanks in advance Mace __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 06:38 -0700, LJ Mace wrote: I've been asked this question and have looked around but can't seem to find an answer. You can come up with a ratio yourself, but it will be meaningless. IBM doesn't publish MIPS for its S390/zSeries processors, so you'll have to go to a third party for their own inaccurate estimates. Having done that, you can probably find a mention in some of the IBM RD papers about base cycle times for their newer processors. (GHz is not something that IBM touts; it's an incidental data point in some of their architectural descriptions.) Pick one of the several clocks present on a modern processor, then divide it by the MIPS value that you got elsewhere and you'll have your answer. But what you'll also have is a dubious number, based on a misleading third-party performance estimate for a workload you'll never see, and a totally unrelated low-level hardware engineering detail. I cannot personally think of a less useful calculation. -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
GREAT ANSWER! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/24/06 9:07 AM On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 06:38 -0700, LJ Mace wrote: I've been asked this question and have looked around but can't seem to find an answer. You can come up with a ratio yourself, but it will be meaningless. IBM doesn't publish MIPS for its S390/zSeries processors, so you'll have to go to a third party for their own inaccurate estimates. Having done that, you can probably find a mention in some of the IBM RD papers about base cycle times for their newer processors. (GHz is not something that IBM touts; it's an incidental data point in some of their architectural descriptions.) Pick one of the several clocks present on a modern processor, then divide it by the MIPS value that you got elsewhere and you'll have your answer. But what you'll also have is a dubious number, based on a misleading third-party performance estimate for a workload you'll never see, and a totally unrelated low-level hardware engineering detail. I cannot personally think of a less useful calculation. -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
Realize that MIPS actually means Misleading Indicator of Processor Speed. I usually use a multiplier of .5 for CISC machines, which turns out about right in most cases. For example someone recently posted that the clock is .8 GHz for a z890 (which is 800 MHz), and that the MIPS is about 365. Most RISK machines are about .7, and superscalar machines can be 2 to 3 instructions per cycle. There is a book by Henesy (sp?) and Peterson that talks about this in great depth. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LJ Mace Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:39 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back I've been asked this question and have looked around but can't seem to find an answer. thanks in advance Mace __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
I've been asked this question and have looked around but can't seem to find an answer. Mace: As others have noted, this is a meaningless comparison. It is even meaningless on Intel and RISC (POWER) these days. The cycle time of a system has less and less to do with performance. A POWER5+ machine running at 1.9Ghz has dramatically greater performance than a POWER4 machine running at 1.9Ghz. Not only does processor design affect performance, but total system design. Something as basic as the size of the level2 (or even level 3) cache will make a huge difference. And of course with System z, the architectural differences (things like the SAP I/O processors, all the PowerPC procesors used in the I/O subsystemm, etc.) make a huge difference for certain workloads. We often see on this list people comparing performance of a compile on a 3Ghz x86 system to a 1.7 Ghz z9 EC system. Of course the x86 will be the z9 EC as the compile will run in memory on the x86. In real world business applications, they do not run all in memory and there is a large I/O component. Jim -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
what is the conversion from mips to Ghz or back
I've seen the number four presented by an IBMer as barton's number. After doing some measurements, 1 mip is about 4 Mhz. This means that for the workloads I measured, a 1Ghz processor using 25% of the CPU would use about 60 mips. When converting a windows workload to Linux on z, it was more like 5. For the z9, it is also closer to 5. This is very easily measured with the proper tools. you can do a before and after, capture the data for a month and analyze it to death. your number will still be about 4 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:38:49 -0700 From: LJ Mace [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been asked this question and have looked around but can't seem to find an answer. thanks in advance Mace __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20 http://mail.yahoo.com=20 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 If you can't measure it, I'm Just NOT interested!(tm) // Barton Robinson - CBW Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Velocity Software, IncMailing Address: 196-D Castro Street P.O. Box 390640 Mountain View, CA 94041 Mountain View, CA 94039-0640 VM Performance Hotline: 650-964-8867 Fax: 650-964-9012 Web Page: WWW.VELOCITY-SOFTWARE.COM // -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
