Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[linux-il]

Oron Peled wrote:

Now you reach something more interesting. At least on RedHat the zoneinfo
directory is part of the glibc-common RPM. Someone (Amos?) sugested
Nah, I opposed this idea for similar reasons to yours.

The solution is simple -- distros should have the zoneinfo data as a separate
package (how is it on debian?):
I was disappointed to just discover that debian contains the zone files
also in glibc. Maybe using "alternatives" will let us install an
"override" package?
--Amos

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Re: How to search for a key in a keyserver?

[linux-il]

Shaul Karl wrote:
  Any hints about the following:

$ gpg --keyserver http://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net --search-keys 517D0F0E
gpg: searching for "517D0F0E" from HKP server wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net
gpg: key "517D0F0E" not found on keyserver
  
? 517D0F0E is what I believe to be the key by which the kernel is
signed.
It's one of the weakest points in GPG/PGP - there is no real one
network of key servers as one would expect, but quite a few "islands".
Use the key server mentioned in http://kernel.org/signature.html
(wwwkeys.pgp.net).
Or I can mail you my copy if you trust me (my key was signed on
August Penguine II).
--Amos

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Re: Hebrew in Debian/Debian installer

[yuval tanny]

I installed today Debian with the new beta 3 installer. in the first screen, 
when you need to chose a language to continue the installation, I saw that 
the Hebrew sentence  show in the wrong way, like they say it would.
Maybe we can hack the translation file to present it in the opposite way? With 
bidiv or a small script?

Anyway, after the install was over there is a packages installation section. 
The default way is with "tasksel", a nice program that give you a nice 
interface to chose what programs you want to use:
  â ââ End-user 
ââ

ââ
  â [ ] Debian Jr.   
 
ââ
  â [ ] Desktop environment  
 



  â ââ Localization 
ââ

ââ
  â [ ] French environment   
 
ââ
  â [ ] German environment   
 
ââ
  â [ ] Greek environment
 
ââ
 
And so on.
I think it will be great if we succeed to push into it an "Hebrew environment" 
or just supply a simple virtual package for Hebrew speakers.

*The installer is very easy to use and it hardware auto detection detect all 
my hardware.


Yuval Tanny.
N‹§²æìr¸›zÇvf¢–Ú%Š{±ŠZÞçX§»+‚)pŠØm…ì(­Û²æìr¸›z)í…éÆyºÉè+º{ayÊ&™©ÝyÈhº{.nÇ+‰·¦j)eŠ{±ŠZÞçX§»+‚)

Resier-FS and nfs.

[Shaul Karl]

  2.6.4's CONFIG_REISERFS_FS says that

Additional patches are needed for NFS and quotas, please see
 for links.

I couldn't find those links, but I didn't search throughly. In addition,
a quick googling suggests that there are/were issues with the triplet
{nfs, lvm, journaling fs}. On the other hand, with google groups one is
more likely to read about problems then mere success.

  Any comments? Do the other journaling fs better then reiser when nfs,
lvm and quotas support are the _main criteria_ for choosing the fs?
-- 
"If you have an apple and I have  an apple and we  exchange apples then
you and I will still each have  one apple. But  if you have an idea and I
have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two
ideas." -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by  shaulk @ actcom . net . il)

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Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[Oron Peled]

On Thursday 18 March 2004 11:25, Yonah Russ wrote:
> ... Let's try to make the script 
> to run these updates part of standard distributions, part of the same 
> rpm that distributes the TZ files in the first place maybe. Let it add a 
> couple cronjobs/year which check: am I set to Israeli time, if yes- 
> update zicfile, if no- exit.
> 
> why shouldn't this be transparent to linux users?

Now you reach something more interesting. At least on RedHat the zoneinfo
directory is part of the glibc-common RPM. Someone (Amos?) sugested
that people would simply keep their glibc up-to-date. But this solution is
not good:
  - Maybe someone cannot upgrade the software (e.g: compatibility with
some applications)
  - Is it logical for the distro to issue a new release for a huge package
(glibc) just because the timezone data where changed somewhere on the
world?

The solution is simple -- distros should have the zoneinfo data as a separate
package (how is it on debian?):
  - The package would contain the zoneinfo files (for all timezones)
  - The post-install of the package would run zic as required.
  - The package version should be properly maintained (e.g: 2004.3.18-2)

This way we can use the normal distribution methods (apt-get, up2date, urpmi,
etc.)

Anyone want to issue a "feature-request" to FC or Mandrake?

-- 
Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron

There's nothing wrong with Windows 2000...
   ...that Linux can't fix


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Re: SNMP setup for MMSentre.

[Oded Arbel]

ביום חמישי 18 מרץ 2004, 17:48, נכתב על ידי Lalazari Yehuda:
> Hi,
>
> Can 
> be & i.p address as well ??

yes

-- 
Oded

::..
Bad command or file name.  Go stand in the corner.

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Kernel key

[Ira Abramov]

Sorry this is detached, I deleted the message before I found an
answer... I guess you are not searching right, see here:
http://mike.passwall.com/nblug/kernel-talk/gpg.txt

oddly, it works for strings from the name, not the keyid...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ gpg --search-keys [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gpg: searching for "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" from HKP server pgp.mit.edu
Keys 1-4 of 4 for "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
(1) Linux Kernel Archives Verification Key <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  1024 bit DSA key 517D0F0E, created 2000-10-09
(2) Linux Kernel Archives Verification Key <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  1024 bit DSA key 517D0F0E, created 2000-10-09

my guess is that if you know the KEYID they guess you will want to
import it anyway... because this works:

gpg --recv-keys 517D0F0E



-- 
Faster than a speeding bullet
Ira Abramov
http://ira.abramov.org/email/

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[HAIFUX LECTURE] Maxim Iorsh on Hebrew Fonts: History and Technology

[Orna Agmon]

Next Monday (22/3/2004), 18:30, the Haifa Linux Club will once
again meet to hear Maxim Iorsh talk about:

  Hebrew Fonts
History and Technology

Maxim has promised to shape his lecture according to the public requests.
The thread in which people expressed their interests is located at the
following URL:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00693.html

We meet in the Technion, Taub 3. See http://www.haifux.org.org/where/html
for arrival details.

You are all invited!

Future lectures include:

Staying in Linux - Trust and Open Source by Alon Altman on 29/3/2004
Ingo Molnar's O(1) scheduler by Erez Hadad on 19/4/2004
Staying in Linux - Firewall with IPtables by Adir Abraham on 3/5/2004
Firewall with IPtables by Adir Abraham on 10/5/2004
100'th lecture party + Staying in Linux - Quick and Dirty Bash by Eli
Billauer on 17/5/2004
Web hacking for fun and profit Alon Altman 24/5/2004
Linux kernel 2.6 by Muli Ben Yehuda 7/6/2004
User Mode Linux by Muli Ben-Yehuda 21/6/2004
Introduction to GnuCash by Baruch Even on 5/7/2004


We are always looking for interesting lecture ideas. Have a subject
you want to talk about? Or a subject you'd like to hear someone else
talk about? email us.
-- 
Orna Agmon

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~ladypine/


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Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[Ira Abramov]

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED], from the post of Thu, 18 Mar:
> 
> It's pretty transparent for Debian users - I never had to deal with this 
> on my Debian -
> the system is just up to date with no "Israel specific" tweaking.

I have opened bugs twice about DST starting or ending on the wrong
times. they keep using old TZ files while the ones on HUJI get updated,
I had to send them there to get a current version.

it's still much better than the Windows situation. I worked in a few
places that moved their time manually on the servers and stations since
microsoft stopped supporting auto-DST in Israel. it drove them nuts when
my linux sent "the wrong hours" on Email since they remained at UTC+2
and I was correctly at UTC+3. I would usually tell them to switch to
Baghdad time to have the correct shift because at the time I didn't know
how to edit the TZ definitions (it's hidden in MSDN somewhere), but it
didn't solve all the calendar entries moving around.

I prefer having to compile a little file once a year than have to mess
with THAT...

-- 
The colonel's secret recipe
Ira Abramov
http://ira.abramov.org/email/

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How to search for a key in a keyserver?

[Shaul Karl]

  Any hints about the following:

$ gpg --keyserver http://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net --search-keys 517D0F0E
gpg: searching for "517D0F0E" from HKP server wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net
gpg: key "517D0F0E" not found on keyserver
  
? 517D0F0E is what I believe to be the key by which the kernel is
signed.
-- 
"If you have an apple and I have  an apple and we  exchange apples then
you and I will still each have  one apple. But  if you have an idea and I
have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two
ideas." -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by  shaulk @ actcom . net . il)

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Bad MD5 for shrike-i386-disc1.iso ??

[Alexander Maryanovsky]

Hi.

It seems that the MD5 sum for the 1st ISO of RedHat 9 on both the TAU and  
Technion ftp sites don't match the one advertised by RedHat or  
linuxiso.org. The MD5 sum for this file at the TAU ftp site is:
400c7fb292c73b793fb722532abd09ad
(This file I personally downloaded. This is also what the Technion ftp  
site gives in their MD5SUM file).
while the MD5 sum advertised at RedHat and linuxiso.org is
34048ce4cd069b624f6e021ba63ecde5

Relevant links:
http://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/9/en/iso/i386/MD5SUM
http://www.linuxiso.org/md5sum.php/464/shrike-i386-disc1.iso.md5
ftp://ftp.tau.ac.il/pub/OS/RedHat/RedHat-9-iso/shrike-i386-disc1.iso
ftp://ftp.technion.ac.il/pub/Linux/RedHat-9.0/iso/MD5SUM
Alexander (aka Sasha) Maryanovsky.

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Re: remote bookmarks ?

[Uri Sharf]

On Thursday 18 March 2004 15:43, Michael Sternberg wrote:
>
> Did anybody tried to develop an extension for FireFox ? Is it suitable
> for writing such plug-in ?
>

Try Bookmarks Synchronizer (FTP)

There's an extension that stores/reterives the XBEL via ftp with autodownload 
and update.  I've used it for a while on Windows and Linux quite sucessfully.

See here: http://cgi29.plala.or.jp/~mozzarel/ - plus some other smart ideas 
and code as well.

-- 
Uri Sharf
Linmagazine Portal
http://linmagazine.co.il

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RE: remote bookmarks ?

[Michael Sternberg]

> -Original Message-
> Amichai Rotman
>
> How about mapping the Bookmark file to a location on the
> Local Network?

Not good. I want to reach it from home and from office(s).

> You could write a script to export it to XML and have it run
> as a ticker on the bottom of your site...

Not good enough - not automatic.. I want to chose a bookmark from
the browser, not to click on some link. And I want to choose
"Add Bookmark" in browser and have it added via CGI at my site,
to the correct group..

> -Original Message-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> How about the following:
> http://wwwampire.mozdev.org/

Setting up LDAP ? Requirement for Perl installed ? Even not reminding
using a Mozilla you can hardly call it lightweight solution. Besides
they are in early stages..

Did anybody tried to develop an extension for FireFox ? Is it suitable
for writing such plug-in ?

> On Wednesday 17 March 2004 14:19, Michael Sternberg wrote:
> > Does anybody know an Internet Browser with following capabilities:
> > 1. On start it loads bookmark list from some remote web site
> > 2. When bookmarking a page, the bookmark is automatically stored
> >at the same remote web site (with some help from CGI?)
> > 3. Have to be multiplatform, Linux and Windows at least..
> > 4. Optional - have to be lightweight
> > 5. Optional - possibility to secure transfer of bookmarks
> >
> > Now I do not want to store my bookmarks somewhere at Netscape
> > or Microsft HQ - the web site have to be mine.

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Re: Hebrew in Debian/Debian installer

[Diego Iastrubni]

I know... it's sad... since they (arabeyes) reported which part of the 
installer should be fixed. It looks like a 2 weeks job but no one has time 
for it.

I will keep my debian installation with only "C" defined :)



On Thursday 18 March 2004 15:37, Lior Kaplan wrote:
> For now, even the Arabs don't have someone to work on the BiDi... The
> Debian Installer people are asking both communities to help. So far - no
> one to the rescue.
>
> The translation process which I started and Shlomi did most will be
> obsolete without a way to display Hebrew the right way.
>
> So - If anyone could help - I'll thank him very much.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lior Kaplan
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.Guides.co.il
>
> Come to write at the forums: http://www.guides.co.il/forums
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Diego Iastrubni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Hebrew in Debian/Debian installer
>
> > On Wednesday 17 March 2004 13:50, yuval tanny wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > I read here:
> > > http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata
> > >
> > > that "Arabic and Hebrew display problems  The installer does not have
>
> the
>
> > > BIDI support necessary for proper display of Arabic and Hebrew text."
> > >
> > > Can someone write a quick report on Hebrew in Sarge? What is the
>
> currently
>
> > > state of the installer translation, the Hebrew packages that the
>
> installer
>
> > > will install (If I chose Hebrew...) and so on.
> >
> > the Arabeyes project was looking for someone to fix the bidi in the
>
> installer.
>
> > Join the devel list and ask them.
> >
> > about gtk...
> > I have heard that the gtk24 breaks some gtk22 appas. Be warned.
> >
> > > BTW,
> > > This is my first post to this list, I hope you can understand my bad
> > > English.
> >
> > We have seen worst :)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > diego,
> >
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> >
> >
> > =
> > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 

diego,

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html



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Re: building RPM and installing it

[Oded Arbel]

ביום חמישי 18 מרץ 2004, 14:35, נכתב על ידי Oded Arbel:
> ביום חמישי 18 מרץ 2004, 14:00, נכתב על ידי Shlomi Fish:
> > > /usr/src/redhat. When I wanded to check if it was installed (rpm -q) it
> > > said that the RPM is NOT installed.
> > > I have 2 questions:
> > > 1) Is this a normal behaviour?
> >
> > Yes, when installing a source RPM, rpm just installs the spec file, and
> > the sources of the RPM under the build directory so they can be built
> > there.
>
> it actually installs it into a special SRPMS directory

Sorry - that's SOURCES, I was confused.


-- 
Oded

::..
Everything that you know is wrong, but you can be straightened out.

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Re: Hebrew in Debian/Debian installer

[Lior Kaplan]

For now, even the Arabs don't have someone to work on the BiDi... The Debian
Installer people are asking both communities to help. So far - no one to the
rescue.

The translation process which I started and Shlomi did most will be obsolete
without a way to display Hebrew the right way.

So - If anyone could help - I'll thank him very much.

Regards,

Lior Kaplan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Guides.co.il

Come to write at the forums: http://www.guides.co.il/forums

- Original Message -
From: "Diego Iastrubni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hebrew in Debian/Debian installer


> On Wednesday 17 March 2004 13:50, yuval tanny wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > I read here:
> > http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata
> >
> > that "Arabic and Hebrew display problems  The installer does not have
the
> > BIDI support necessary for proper display of Arabic and Hebrew text."
> >
> > Can someone write a quick report on Hebrew in Sarge? What is the
currently
> > state of the installer translation, the Hebrew packages that the
installer
> > will install (If I chose Hebrew...) and so on.
> the Arabeyes project was looking for someone to fix the bidi in the
installer.
> Join the devel list and ask them.
>
> about gtk...
> I have heard that the gtk24 breaks some gtk22 appas. Be warned.
>
>
> > BTW,
> > This is my first post to this list, I hope you can understand my bad
> > English.
> We have seen worst :)
>
>
> --
>
> diego,
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>
>
> =
> To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


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Re: Hebrew in Debian/Debian installer

[Diego Iastrubni]

On Wednesday 17 March 2004 13:50, yuval tanny wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I read here:
> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata
>
> that "Arabic and Hebrew display problems  The installer does not have the
> BIDI support necessary for proper display of Arabic and Hebrew text."
>
> Can someone write a quick report on Hebrew in Sarge? What is the currently
> state of the installer translation, the Hebrew packages that the installer
> will install (If I chose Hebrew...) and so on.
the Arabeyes project was looking for someone to fix the bidi in the installer. 
Join the devel list and ask them.

about gtk...
I have heard that the gtk24 breaks some gtk22 appas. Be warned.


> BTW,
> This is my first post to this list, I hope you can understand my bad
> English.
We have seen worst :)


-- 

diego,

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html



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Re: remote bookmarks ?

[linux-il]

Michael Sternberg wrote:

Does anybody know an Internet Browser with following capabilities:
1. On start it loads bookmark list from some remote web site
2. When bookmarking a page, the bookmark is automatically stored
  at the same remote web site (with some help from CGI?)
3. Have to be multiplatform, Linux and Windows at least..
4. Optional - have to be lightweight
5. Optional - possibility to secure transfer of bookmarks
Now I do not want to store my bookmarks somewhere at Netscape
or Microsft HQ - the web site have to be mine.
 

How about the following:
http://wwwampire.mozdev.org/
?
--Amos

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Re: building RPM and installing it

[Oded Arbel]

ביום חמישי 18 מרץ 2004, 14:00, נכתב על ידי Shlomi Fish:
> > /usr/src/redhat. When I wanded to check if it was installed (rpm -q) it
> > said that the RPM is NOT installed.
> > I have 2 questions:
> > 1) Is this a normal behaviour?
>
> Yes, when installing a source RPM, rpm just installs the spec file, and the
> sources of the RPM under the build directory so they can be built there.

it actually installs it into a special SRPMS directory

> Only binary RPMs (i386, i586, etc. and noarch) can be installed into the
> system and RPM database.
>
> > 2) What is the debuginfo RPM for?

with newer RPM versions, when you build a package, after it strips the debug 
symbols from the binaries it bundles all the debug symbols in a special 
debuginfo package. if you want to debug the binaries you installed from 
binary rpm, you then install the debug info RPMs that add the debuging 
symbols to the installed binaries

-- 
Oded

::..
"Don't take life too serious. You'll never escape it alive anyway."
-- Elbert Hubbard

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Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[Oded Arbel]

ביום חמישי 18 מרץ 2004, 13:20, נכתב על ידי [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> Oded Arbel wrote:
> > You'll have major problems with that, especially the part where you
> > assume
> >
> >that everyone is connected to the internet all the time.
>
> You can enable/disable this, or you can do some clever tricks with
> if-up/if-down.

There are people who are not connected at all. besides, I don't want and "dial 
home devices" on my computer, especially not the kind that automaticly 
activate.

> >I don't think its an exageration to expect linux workstations to update
> > their glibc at least once a year - and that as transparent as you can
> > get: look at windows users - they do it all the time.
>
> Actually it sounds like an exageration to me - production systems want
> stability above all,

I'm not talking about production servers. note the word "workstations".
I'm refering to the kind of places where you want hands-off update of 
everything w/o bothering the user - linux desktops. I don't think its a 
stretch to expect linux desktop users to run up2date/rpmdrake/synaptic in 
order to get the latest _tried_and_tested_ packages from their distribution's 
package repositories.

> A separate script to update just the timezone should make people a
> little more comfortable
> with automatic updates.

You can put that in "production systems" aka servers. I'm sure the admin for 
those systems is qualified enough to download a deb/rpm/whatnot package from 
somewhere and install it on her own. you don't need to get that as part of 
the distribution. said admin is also probably qualified enough to write her 
own update script given a well known interface and a reliable update source - 
for example, a CVS repository on HUJI or something containing properly 
versioned timezone files.

-- 
Oded

::..
Reasons to Run Away 47-"You uncover the vampire lord's casket for staking 
(after destroying his minions before sunset) to find it empty..."

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Re: building RPM and installing it

[Shlomi Fish]

On Thursday 18 March 2004 13:32, you wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm running RH9.
> I created a spec file and build the RPMs (rpmbuild -ba  ).
> I wanted to check what I did, so I installed it (rpm -Uvh).
> When I installed the binaries RPM, all was good, but when I installed the
> source RPM, it only wrote the tar.gz file and the spec file under
> /usr/src/redhat. When I wanded to check if it was installed (rpm -q) it
> said that the RPM is NOT installed.
> I have 2 questions:
> 1) Is this a normal behaviour?

Yes, when installing a source RPM, rpm just installs the spec file, and the 
sources of the RPM under the build directory so they can be built there. Only 
binary RPMs (i386, i586, etc. and noarch) can be installed into the system 
and RPM database.

> 2) What is the debuginfo RPM for?
>

I have no idea what is a debuginfo RPM.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish


-
Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:http://shlomif.il.eu.org/

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
[Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.]

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Re: Gnu.org

[Leonid Podolny]

The site seems to be back. It's weird that I heard nothing about it 
being down.

Gal Gur-Arie wrote:
I'm connected via 013, I also checked it from a machine located in the 
US - i can NOT access this site.

It is possible that your friend's browser has some cached pages.

Cheers,
Gal
Leonid Podolny wrote:

Hi, list,
Gnu.org behaves really weird since yesterday. I can't access it 
neither from home, nor from work. Some friend of mine tried and 
accessed it without any problem. The problem seems to be ISP connected 
-- both at home and at work I access the net through 012, and that 
friend uses 014. Any ideas anyone?

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building RPM and installing it

[David Sapir]

Hi,
I'm running RH9.
I created a spec file and build the RPMs (rpmbuild -ba  ).
I wanted to check what I did, so I installed it (rpm -Uvh).
When I installed the binaries RPM, all was good, but when I installed the 
source RPM, it only wrote the tar.gz file and the spec file under 
/usr/src/redhat. When I wanded to check if it was installed (rpm -q) it said 
that the RPM is NOT installed.
I have 2 questions:
1) Is this a normal behaviour?
2) What is the debuginfo RPM for?

Thanks,
David.
_
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[linux-il]

Oded Arbel wrote:

You'll have major problems with that, especially the part where you 
assume

that everyone is connected to the internet all the time.
 

You can enable/disable this, or you can do some clever tricks with 
if-up/if-down.

The fact is that I don't find it necessary at all - just keep your glibc up to 
date and you always have the relevant timezone files. I've used RedHat, 
Mandrake and SuSE and after the first time DST automaticly kicked in I didn't 
think more of it.
I don't think its an exageration to expect linux workstations to update their 
glibc at least once a year - and that as transparent as you can get: look at 
windows users - they do it all the time.
 

Actually it sounds like an exageration to me - production systems want 
stability above all,
and automatic updates of glibc doesn't fit that need (I mean - you want 
to test a setup on
a "staging" system for a while before you change any bit in a production 
system), especially
with such a critical component as glibc.
A separate script to update just the timezone should make people a 
little more comfortable
with automatic updates.



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Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[linux-il]

Yonah Russ wrote:

Ok- mercy- I give up ntp. The point I was trying to make is that we 
all should get together and do it the same way. Let's try to make the 
script to run these updates part of standard distributions, part of 
the same rpm that distributes the TZ files in the first place maybe. 
Let it add a couple cronjobs/year which check: am I set to Israeli 
time, if yes- update zicfile, if no- exit.
Go ahead - it sounds like a simple script. Once you write such a script 
you can propose it to FC/Debian/Gentoo etc. It wouldn't even merit its 
own package but can be merged into the existing timezone packages.

Just drop the "If Israel then..." condition because:

1. See in http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm (and the tzdata* file 
under ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/,
reffered from the previous link) that as much as we think that we are so 
unique - timezones and DST's
shift around the world all the time (pan unintended).
2. A user on a system abroad (e.g. a webmail user visiting Israel) might 
want to see IST/IDT even
if the system time is not set to these timezones.

why shouldn't this be transparent to linux users?
It's pretty transparent for Debian users - I never had to deal with this 
on my Debian -
the system is just up to date with no "Israel specific" tweaking.

--Amos



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Re: Runtime changing of timezones

[Oleg Goldshmidt]

Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> however memorial day (or rather, memorial weekend), Thanksgiving and I
> think even halloween, not to mention christian events like ash sunday
> and good friday, are often celebrated on "second sunday of february" or
> "last friday of September" and similar dynamic dates.


Some American holidays extend weekends by being held on
Mondays. Labor Day comes to mind.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Runtime changing of timezones

[Oleg Goldshmidt]

Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Quoting guy keren, from the post of Wed, 17 Mar:
> > ftp://ftp.cs.huji.ac.il/pub/tz/israel (look at the 'README' file) for easy
> > instructions for the madness called israeli summer-time ;)
> 
> the fun ain't over. just last week I read that Poraz plans to move us
> one time zone to the east... GMT+3 in winter and GMT+4 in summer! Like
> they had in the 1950s... life isn't dull :-)

Ouch. Given the extent of the interaction I - as so many others in
this country - have with people living 7, 8, or 10 hours to the West
this is not going to be fun. I hope even Poraz is not so stupid.

I used to live in a big industrial city that was 1 hour to the East of
Moscow (about 30 minutes ahead astronomically). The authorities in
that country had no qualms whatsoever about messing with space-time,
but at least they did it in the right direction, decreeing that the
time should be the same as in Moscow to improve communication.

The "decree time" was switched on and off several times, and so was
daylight saving time - independently. One amusing effect of that is
that I am unable to tell an astrologer the hour of my birth without
additional research. It actually helped me to dismiss several offers
to create a personal horoscope. ;-)

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[Oded Arbel]

ביום חמישי 18 מרץ 2004, 11:25, נכתב על ידי Yonah Russ:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I understand this completly (I've been through this myself when I
> > admin'ed at HUJI CS), and you are certainly right with your concernes.
> > I just think you are looking at the wrong direction.
> > Existing tools will help you do a "pull" protocol (cron+ftp, for
> > instance, BTW - NTP is a "pull" protocol too). If you'll get down to
> > write a "push" protocol (a mistake, IMHO, since clients go up and down
> > all the time and the server won't be able to track them all) then
> > you'll have to write your own protocol, and by then I don't see
> > the advantage of piggy-backing on NTP of all things.
> >
> > Look at this in another way - just like you setup NTP clients on all
> > the machines you are responsible for, setup another procedure to pull
> > the timezone file.
>
> Ok- mercy- I give up ntp. The point I was trying to make is that we all
> should get together and do it the same way. Let's try to make the script
> to run these updates part of standard distributions, part of the same
> rpm that distributes the TZ files in the first place maybe. Let it add a
> couple cronjobs/year which check: am I set to Israeli time, if yes-
> update zicfile, if no- exit.
>
> why shouldn't this be transparent to linux users?

You'll have major problems with that, especially the part where you assume 
that everyone is connected to the internet all the time.

The fact is that I don't find it necessary at all - just keep your glibc up to 
date and you always have the relevant timezone files. I've used RedHat, 
Mandrake and SuSE and after the first time DST automaticly kicked in I didn't 
think more of it.
I don't think its an exageration to expect linux workstations to update their 
glibc at least once a year - and that as transparent as you can get: look at 
windows users - they do it all the time.

-- 
Oded

::..
16. don't do that, it'll crash the sys SHIT
--Top 100 things you don't want the sysadmin to say

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Re: Israeli summer time - Was "Re: Runtime changing of timezones"

[Yonah Russ]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I understand this completly (I've been through this myself when I
admin'ed at HUJI CS), and you are certainly right with your concernes.
I just think you are looking at the wrong direction.
Existing tools will help you do a "pull" protocol (cron+ftp, for
instance, BTW - NTP is a "pull" protocol too). If you'll get down to
write a "push" protocol (a mistake, IMHO, since clients go up and down
all the time and the server won't be able to track them all) then
you'll have to write your own protocol, and by then I don't see
the advantage of piggy-backing on NTP of all things.
Look at this in another way - just like you setup NTP clients on all
the machines you are responsible for, setup another procedure to pull
the timezone file.
Ok- mercy- I give up ntp. The point I was trying to make is that we all 
should get together and do it the same way. Let's try to make the script 
to run these updates part of standard distributions, part of the same 
rpm that distributes the TZ files in the first place maybe. Let it add a 
couple cronjobs/year which check: am I set to Israeli time, if yes- 
update zicfile, if no- exit.

why shouldn't this be transparent to linux users?
yonah

yonah


Cheers,

--Amos

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