thread noise
Unsubscribing. This is the third time in 10 years that I unsubscribe from linux-il. A list is made by the people on it. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
linux-il moderation and spam filtering
Hello all, last week the spam filters on the list ate two of my messages. They were large messages and I put a lot of effort into them. In the past few weeks this has happened a few times. Obviously I have been wasting my time writing them. Subsequent reporting of a message by an admin did not make it appear. The time has come to ask the question whether ilnux-il admins will consider giving up spam filtering the mailing list. I am subscribed to a number of mailing lists and none filter or moderate postings without explicitly saying so and especially without offering recourse. linux-il is the only one. I consider that subscribed and verified (at least by email confirmation and captcha) members of a mailing list can be trusted to not flood the list with spam (which would result in their being banned). Electronic chaperones are not welcome. Especially chaperones which have proven that they will cause data loss as they did for me. I would like to have a clear answer about why the linux-il list has a spam filter although it is a closed list as any other, who decided o install it, and whether removing (not just for me) it is an option that will be considered. If the answer is no, I may consider unsubscribing. There is no point in posting to a Russian Roulette list that may delete those postings I put most effort into (and has done so repeatedly so far). I can follow the list from an archive without wasting any time composing messages that will be deleted. I am awaiting response, thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Was 'MySQL etc hardware whines': now some facts
flowing, but I will be the last one to dig the bypass channel that removes water from 'my' river, especially when there is not that much water to go around and the competition is polluting my water heavily and deliberately anyway, and you may have to point a gun at my head for me to dig in the first place. My point is that it's hard to tell someone that he can switch to Linux where he will find none of his familiar applications, and will be unable to open his data. Most of the time, they simply won't switch as much as they hate their windows. However, if they've switched to use a lot of high-quality, portable FOSS on Windows, then the switch would be trivial. People do not switch. You have to make them. There must be a strong incentive. I know at least one person who uses all OSS applications on an ancient Windows version and refuses to switch because there is on ActiveX control he uses to adjust pictures in a certain way for Ebay sales. No amount of demonstrations with other graphics programs could convince him. People are sheep and they buy m$ advertising, fud, and stories. If you want to promote OSS you need to understand at least as much consumer marketing and psychology as you understand coding. Every time someone ports an OSS application to Windows, the life of the Windows 'monopoly' (actually upgrading pyramid scheme) is prolonged. Wrong. Prove me wrong, after carefully reading what I wrote above. OSS developers who do that are working directly against OSS. Every time a necessary OSS database front end is made to work on Windows the number of potential OSS desktops decreases. STOP DOING THAT. You can convince a few people of this. But this is the Let's make sure no-one does this, because if someone does, then we're screwed. You're trying to make sure all people on the planet agree with you. You're trying to build a full consensus. However, if one person - just one - does this on his own and it's his right according to the licences of the software, then your entire co-operative non-activity collapses. Sorry, but such plans, *never* works. You really don't understand. When you port OSS to Windows with full features you DO NOT follow the native application level support, which is that of NOT supplying the full feature set, keeping some for the UPGRADE path. By simply FOLLOWING THE NATIVE MODEL you will help create an incentive to UPGRADE TO FULL OSS. This is EXACTLY what everyone does when writing software for Windows. Every OSS developer who works to port a necessary OSS application to Windows supports the Windows/PC upgrade spiral, and the pyramid scheme revenue model, and directly opposes the development and user base expansion of OSS users. No he does not. He just makes sure that people can use his software on their computers. Yes, but this explanation gets old after a while, assuming that the secondary goal of the developer is to increase OSS native platform users. I'll make it clear one more time: If anybody means by 'interoperability' supporting the continuation of the Windows pyramid 'blood line', then me and them do not speak the same language. Wow! What bitterness. Peter, have some common sense: if someone is running Windows on his machine, and has for a long time and you tell him: Please install Linux. It's a superior Operating System, but it cannot run any of your applications or open any of your existing data. is he going to switch? No, he's going to say: Fine! Linux may be superior, but I want to use my word processor, spreadsheet, web browser, etc. with the gigabytes of existing data, so there's no way I'm switching.. No, that's not the way it works. The way it works is, people need to do a new task Z. They are offered the solution using OSS application ozz. After a lot of whining about why it cannot be run on an ancient Windows 500MHz computer, they are shown a demo on a live boot system on the same machine. They are happy. But with more whining and swearing that their children are starving (typically in a Hertzlya Pituach villa), one 'temporarily' comes up with a solution that actually runs ozz using a 'temporary' dual boot arrangement involving a disk on key, a live cd, and a minimum of 10 minutes of boot waiting time. And guess what, in despite of regularly losing the live cd, they stay with that, because of the irreplaceable 'solitaire' game. This is human nature. Clearly if the 'temporary' solution would not have been implemented, then either this would have become a proper dual boot box, or a clean OSS box, or there would have been another OSS on the network, doing ozz. The mistake is the 'temportary' solution. Running X server on Windows to access the 'real' application on OSS is the wrong 'temporary' step. While doing this is necessary sometimes, it must be clear at all times that upgrading to full OSS desktop will bring large benefits immediately. This must be made clear at every step. To the point of making
Re: linux-il moderation and spam filtering
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: I think that there should be a way, like using a signing key signature that you register with the list in advance. Or simply using a text signature to enhance the accuracy of identifying you correctly. I suggest you start adding a distinct signature to your emails and wait a while for the spam filters to get this new info into the system. Of course, this is only a guess as to why they are not getting it that they emails are from you. Mailing list members are members because they signed in and were confirmed. There is no need for furhter id. That's the way it works all over the world. thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux-il moderation and spam filtering
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Mailing list members are members because they signed in and were confirmed. There is no need for furhter id. That's the way it works all over the world. You yourself pointed out in an earlier emails some insights about x86 work all over the world, that doesn't make it the right way :). Anyway, your header can be hijacked by anyone and they can impersonate you, this is SOP for spammers. You have to make more effort into proving who you are in order for the list to trust you more, thus, i suggested to add some kind of signature to improve. The way these things work is, 'don't fix it if it ain't broken'. While there is a way to abuse the list, it is unlikely to be used. Other lists with larger circulation are better targets for spam and the process is still not (or very seldomly) used. Thus using it 'preventively' is in the same class as requiring biometric authentication for an entire country's adult population to allow use of the internet, so as to prevent a potential teenager from potentially accessing a potentially damaging website once or twice (usually it's disgusting enough the first time). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Novell mac-pc ad spoofs
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: There are two ads on this, so scroll down... http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/2007/03/novell_launches.html There are more ads like that on youtube. But here is something wrt 'interoperability': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3CIrDkGOk0 Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Novell mac-pc ad spoofs
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: There are two ads on this, so scroll down... http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/2007/03/novell_launches.html Here are better ones from the same series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBgj96gGw9Y (and original Apple ads ... rofl) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONl6J7z7jmE (mac) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV_DHAMGtLYmode=relatedsearch= Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
off topic: pirates of silicon valley - the story of the pc
This is a movie about the story of the PC from Gates to recent developments (without *nix): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJu2GAkf2k (there are 8 or 9 parts) Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux-il moderation and spam filtering
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Ori Idan wrote: decisions made by the big bad non-existing IGLU CABAL. Linux_il is the only place in the world where non existing entity can make decisions :-) I'm not arguing. One cannot argue with a Bayesian filter. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux-il moderation and spam filtering
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Michael Vasiliev wrote: On Sunday March 25 2007, Aviram Jenik wrote: Here's an idea: why don't you, Peter, volunteer to be a moderator on this list? This will allow you to approve your own messages that are incorrectly flagged as spam, and also monitor all the censoring decisions made by the big bad non-existing IGLU CABAL. Not to mention take some load off the current moderator(s). Didn't want to play this card, but if you bring it to the table... List managers - is it feasible to add another moderator? While I'll happily offload a part of spamreading on another moderator, may I say that what Peter is so readily attributes to malice is simply a malfunction and lack of redundancy/communication in the admin team. It appears that both me and Ely got sick over the weekend and weren't able to deal with what seems to be a misconfiguration. I never said 'malice'. I said '***' ate my messages. I also asked a legitimate question about why the list has a spam filter in the first place. Did spam injection occur in the past ? If so, when ? (less than two years a ago ... ?) thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Driver for Infrared Device
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: I got an ancient infrared device PACKARED BELL - BPCS 146542 FCC ID: FODFMIR. It has a serial connector (DB9 pins). I don't have a remote for it. Is there a driver in linux that will support it? Also, is there a program to record a tv remote buttons and use it to operate, for example, amarok, etc... 10x. lirc Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: list police ate my message
The copy seems to have been deleted also. The message that was eaten (twice?) had Headers: Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:52:43 +0200 (IST) thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Blooming Filters (was: Re: [Job] MySQL consultation)
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Omer Zak wrote: On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 00:20 +0200, Peter wrote: You also probably want to read up on more advanced indexing methods (like Bloom and Blooming filters and such) than what's available with ordinary off the shelf databases. I searched for information about Blooming filters. Google gave me surprisingly irrelevant results when I looked up 'bloom' and 'blooming filter' (apparently, the term is used also in photography and botanics). The 'Blooming' name was an unfortunate choice. The people who came up with that are Israelis I think. Try to find their other academic work and trace them, and see where they 'play'. Maybe you can talk to them. However, the following does explain those filters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_filter Peter, can you suggest a summary article for the general subject of advanced indexing methods? I am not an expert on this, but any algorithm that runs in O(1) or close to that for the data size you use is a candidate. The data size should be obviously less than 2^32 for x86 at least in any indexable dimension if you want a reasonably smooth ride. Larger things (like 30 million record databases to be used in real-time) move up to better things like 64-bit x86 and up. F.ex. 30 million records will require less than 7 bits per entry just to keep a complete linear index in 3GB of RAM (the maximum usable you can put in a x86 32 bit machine). 7 bits is not enough to even make 30 million distinct pointers to 128 records in 3GB, leaving no room for an OS (let alone SQL). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Blooming Filters (was: Re: [Job] MySQL consultation)
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Perhaps some kind of a hardware solution can be used. I.e. attaching a pci with memory and addressing it's 64gb memory either directly (if you have 64 bit bus) or in two phases. It can also be any RAM space size you choose, but it will cost you (each additional bit doubles your costs :) ). So what you are advocating is an expensive RAM disk ? The process limit is still there. 32 bit cpu registers cannot easily manipulate more than 3 GB of data. Any index etc must be limited to this size. The runtime for accessing a 'ramdisk' will explode wrt running a single large process. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MySQL etc hardware whines
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, guy keren wrote: Peter wrote: Afaik the fastest servers (including Google and many others) do not use SQL for anything. An optimized hash table (tiered etc) should work much better than any SQL. funny you should mention google - because all their computers that run the google sites, are no-name 1U and 2U x86 rack-mountable PCs, combined into a set of large clusters. they use a replicating file-system + lots of communicatoins redundancy + monitoring software + lots of technicians and spare parts, to get the reliability they want. see this: http://www.linesave.co.uk/google_search_engine.html Yes but they are not 'mission critical'. I think that an example of what SQL can do is Ebay (which runs on Sun and use some sort of Java server technology). I think that the best example of OSS heavy load servers were ftp.cdrom.com (== Walnut Creek) who ran massive bandwidth and load on a few servers on FreeBSD (and Slackware Linux). In 1998 too! Nowadays Pr0n servers are among the highest loaded and fastest systems (and I often test network speed and so on using that as targets g - imagine what internet censorship would do to that - hehe). It is interesting to notice that certain pr0n urls load 8 times faster than the google front page under certain circumstances ... probably internet caching effects .. Peter article about Walnut Creek: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1998-11-20-001-05-OP = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Israeli Debian mirror: archive CD images
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Dmitry Sherman wrote: New Israeli Debian mirror: archive CD images http://www.debian.co.il/debian - Archive http://www.debian.co.il/debian-cd CD-IMAGES Thanks. Just a small q: why is Israel the only country on this planet that uses a commercial domain for a free distribution ? thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Blooming Filters (was: Re: [Job] MySQL consultation)
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Advocating is a strong word, i was suggesting. How exactly would you address 128gb,256gb? Unless of course your system board and CPU supports such sizes... The board does not care about sizes. Disk requests are serialized and they can be any lengths. Implementing a 1024 bit wide address counter to be pushed out serially to hardware is trivial even with an 8 bit cpu from 20 years ago. The problem is speed and size. Anything that fits in 1 register can be manipulated in 1 clock cycle or less, that is fast. Thus jumping around in an index or a tree using 32 bit integers on 32 bit hardware with ~3-4GB of RAM is not a problem. When more than 32 bits are needed things slow down a lot. It can go from 1 clock cycle to 4-5. When the 'local' data size is larger than the cache, things slow down to main memory speed. When that is not large enough, you start using disk seeks and VM swapping. Strictly speaking, a 32bit machine could handle 100TB or more of data, working as a Turing machine on the 100TB 'tape' (or tapes), but you really wouldn't want that (insert memories of recompiling Linux on i386 with 8MB ram here). One of the reasons RDBMSs 'like' to run on 'bare' partitions is exectly this: they prefer to use their own seek, hash, and striping algorythms instead of relying on the OS. So by the time any dimension of the problem touches on 2^32 things can slow down 10-1000 and worse times (even without script kiddies using SQL and PHP4 scripts to handle the output). As for 3GB, As i understand you must either have 2gb,4gb,... for this blooming filters, i.e. you need 4gb which does not leave much room for your kernel and apps in 32bit systems (and btw swapping is not really an option with this hash func). As for expensive, some memories There is no fixed size for Bloom filters, they are probabilistic. You can make a 10 bit Blooming filter, it depends on your hash algorythm. Its performance is limited by how many bits of storage you give it, how good your hash is, and how *few* items you store in it. Take a look at the pigeon hole principle (and the birthday coincidence probability) for clues on the probability limits involved. Bayesian filters (like bogofilter) are also closely related to this afaik. The point is that there are ways to build very fast speculative indexes over huge data sets without actually storing the data. This can reduce the number of actual (expensive) lookups by orders of magnitude. I am not sure what Google uses for algorythms internally but from my adventures with web publishing and so on I would say that they are using similar principles. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Blooming Filters (was: Re: [Job] MySQL consultation)
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: On Thursday 22 March 2007 16:18, Peter wrote: On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Advocating is a strong word, i was suggesting. How exactly would you address 128gb,256gb? Unless of course your system board and CPU supports such sizes... The board does not care about sizes. Disk requests are serialized and they can be any lengths. Implementing a 1024 bit wide address counter to be pushed out serially to hardware is trivial even with an 8 bit cpu from 20 years ago. The problem is speed and size. Anything that fits in And where prey tell, you can go to a store today and get a computer that support addressing of 1024 bits RAM? Wht are you assuming that the computer needs to be able to address 1024 bits of RAM if the address counter is made that wide (in software). You can easily map this 1024 bit address space so one part covers actual ram, another the video ram, another is mapped to a network drive, another ... it's called virtual memory, and it does not say anywhere that it is limited to one level. Of course this costs time. But ... Being realistic, you have a 32bit system in place and all you need is to implement the 2 or 4 gb blooming filter, why buy an insanely expansive new computer instead of just adding some PCI with some memory that would be good enough for your needs? Like an Asus battery backed ram drive in 50$ + as much ddrs you need. I think 1gb~=500nis *4 = 2000. ANS + 50$ = 2250nis. Because you don't need a Blooming filter 4GB in size. You need one Blooming filter 500MB in size, two 256MB, four 128MB, and the last two fit into the second 800NIS PC (the first 500MB fits into the first). Anyway the B. filter is not good for storing data but it could be good to check f.ex. hash keys present/absent in a cache quickly and cheaply. The idea is that there is no canned solution. There is hard work to be done to make something support 30E6 records in real time. A Bloom filter may be a part of it. Maybe not. But SQL is almost certainly a part of the problem and not of the solution ... again I'm not an expert here. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: list police ate my message
Again the list police ate a message of mine. No, it did not use any offensive language. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New Israeli Debian mirror: archive CD images
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Dmitry Sherman wrote: I am sorry, the debian.org.il domain is already taken. There is nothing to be sorry for. Good work. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Blooming Filters (was: Re: [Job] MySQL consultation)
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Listen, i did not suggest to map 1024 bits, i was using your example. What you are talking about is PCI and other buses. On the same 32bit address bus you can address many data buses using bridges, which is exactly what i said from the beginning and yes, as muli said earlier, it is slow. I am talking about virtual address spaces. Like Google as file system, NFS, and more. But it will not be fast. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
here's some fun about networks of trust
Self-building ones, no less: http://loaf.cantbedone.org/about.htm Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jpost stuck problems
I have sticking problems with jpost again. I would like to confirm this with others. Here are details: URL: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2cid=1173879134668pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull Symptoms: Page loads and displays but it never finishes loading. Opening any comment opens the popup but it remains empty (but with the ad) and loading attempt continues indefinitely. netstat shows open connections to: 212.143.162.141:80 66.249.93.147:80 64.191.208.106:80 64.191.208.106:80 66.249.93.99:80 Some of these URLs belong to Goolge, others belong to AKMAI and to something called Equinix (a global provider). Since I surf dozens of similar sites without any problems, I do not believe that the problem is at my end or at my ISP. I think that one of the ad serving or profiling url's gets 'stuck' under certain circumstances. Has anybody else seen this ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jpost stuck problems
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Amir Plivatsky wrote: As a work around, try to access it via the proxy nyud.net:8090 as follows: http://www.jpost.com.nyud.net:8090/REST_OF_URL (it may be SLOW). I don't think that there is a way for it to be SLOWER than NOT WORKING. I.e. everything is relative. thanks, I'll try it, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Job] MySQL consultation
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: With 30 million records in a database, I would seriously consider a different hardware platform. Some of the perform quite well with Linux some do not. 30 million records is not a lot. But it is too much if one expects to write things like SELECT * FROM baz WHERE foo ~ 'baz' SORT BY date; . And whoever expects that to be fixed by using faster hardware needs help. And whoever expects to handle the output of that command using a 'simple PHP4 script using a Zend [tm] optimizer for speed' needs a *LOT* of help. An example of an online something with x millions of records are the Whois servers. Afaik they do not use SQL, nor Oracle, they use custom solutions running on 'bare hardware' (e.g. dbm etc). You also probably want to read up on more advanced indexing methods (like Bloom and Blooming filters and such) than what's available with ordinary off the shelf databases. Incidentally 30 million records *require* 64 bit cpu and os, so it's not an 'x86' question at all. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Job] MySQL consultation
By the way, for example on how NOT to do SQL web programming see the white pages service at fwd.pulver.net or the search in Skype. Both of these have well under a million records usually and it takes minutes to hours to get answers. At least Skype starts displaying as soon as there is data. The fwd server will grind quietly with only one search key. Another example (better) is how htdig (web search engine) works. It uses dbm as backend. htdig is not the fastest engine in the world but one can have an answer on a compound query in a few seconds on a single user machine. Of course it takes half a day to build the indexes. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Linked lists
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Daniel Feiglin wrote: You have to see it to believe it: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7028023.html Hell! I thought that I invented linked lists (and doubly linked lists) in my very first programming assignment in 1971, using FORTRAN 4 on an IBM 7044 mf running $IBSYS. Darn! If I had only kept my box of source code punchcards ... You are not a Chinese-American employee of a US high tech company. Therefore you could not invent anything, let alone patent it. Peter -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- -- Type: TEXT/X-VCARD -- File: dilogsys.vcf = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: extract attachments from mail messages
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Oren Held wrote: uudecode? munpack Nahum Mizrahi wrote: Hi all, I am looking for a command line program that can extract attachments from mail messages and save them as files. I tried mutt, tnef and fetchmail but could not get any of them to do the job. I am sure there must be a way to do that using mutt or other command line mail client. Any ideas? Thanks, Nahum = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: extract attachments from mail messages
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote: Hi Nahum, You will have to write your own program in PHP or using Perl's MIME module. The learning curve is not trivial. What's wrong with munpack ?! Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: extract attachments from mail messages
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Nahum Mizrahi wrote:
There's nothing wrong with it except that ybe hadn't heard of it.
8-)
I try to compile it and thats what i get (configure went just fine)
I just got it and compiled it cleanly. Your system has weird libraries.
Type 'man malloc' and see in what header file malloc is defined (should
be in stdlib.h which is not included by unixos.c). If the manual says
something other than stdlib.h then you will have to work a little (patch
the program). Truth be said, the proto 'extern char *malloc();' is NOT
Posix clean, nor a clean prototype. ('void *malloc(int count);' is the
right way to do it).
PHP is the new BASIC. It has about as many bugs and promotes the same
kind of programming habits imho. I am subscribed to the usual
SecurityFocus mailing lists and PHP and PHP based applications rate
about as many advisories as any m$ 'tool'. This is of course due to its
popularity, but that is hardly an excuse.
Peter
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Scanners
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Daniel Feiglin wrote: I just parted with the princely sum of NIS 312 for a Canon Lide 25. Oh, well if it doesn't shape up, I can always put it on my wife's Windonkey. There are a couple of other similar supported cheapies like these: Genius 1200XE - NIS 243 Genius HR7 - NIS 389 Plustek 1200 - NIS 289 I suspect that the main differences are in quality of the electro mechanical components and scanning speed. More likely in the glue that holds the type label to the case imho. Notice that for the price of the Genius you can buy a HP all-in-one. (almost). Imho selling a no-name scanner for as much money as a name all-in-one is genius marketing. Thus the name is correct. I don't know about the rest. Also why aren't brand names like 'Dork' (vs. 'Genius') and 'Minustek' (vs 'Plustek') more popular. They certainly attract attention. Peter -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- -- Type: TEXT/X-VCARD -- File: dilogsys.vcf = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Scanners
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: On 19/03/07, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: about the rest. Also why aren't brand names like 'Dork' (vs. 'Genius') and 'Minustek' (vs 'Plustek') more popular. They certainly attract attention. Who said they aren't? What about Bug for a place to buy software or a defunct virus computer shop network? You are right ... but both are (were) Israeli companies. The local sense of humour (and 'wholesomeness') is ... different from the norm elsewhere. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenPBX compatible FXS/FXO cards
It's a matter of money versus need. I don't need something good, I need something that works. If I could afford them I would get the Sangoma cards. Take a look at an ATA/FXS/FXO: http://www.digiumcards.com/zoom_telephonics_5801_FXO_FXS.html http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/FXS-FXO+Converters More like this: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VoIP+Gateways Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenPBX compatible FXS/FXO cards
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Erez D wrote: i also looked for cheap fxo+fxs ata. and i picked up gradstream handytone and ... i had bad experiance with them. This is like 'There was a general protection failure. Press [OK]'. Could you please share the 'bad experience' with us ? thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open Asterisk - correct name.
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: Yesterday I mentioned OpenAsterisk as a fork from Asterisk. I was wrong. The name of the project is OpenPBX. Their web page is http://www.openpbx.org Yes, thanks for that. Still there is no description of the story behind it, but I'll find it. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenPBX compatible FXS/FXO cards
Thanks for explaining. It is possible that the unit was damaged or does not suit the Israeli phone system (which is slightly different from elsewhere). Usually there are ways for technicians to 'adapt' the unit for local use (this is esp. about leaving the Nezeq line open), even though what you describe sounds like a fault in the ATA FXO side. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using the code of dead project - Political question
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: Star Office (which is MOSTLY but not 100% open source), or OpenAsterisk which was created because the prime nonemployee contributor to Asterisk had his GPL'ed code sold out from under him. Do you have a reference on OpenAsterisk ? Google does not seem to know. thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Scanners
Imho, buy an all-in-one machine from HP etc. It all works great under Linux with cups hpijs and sane. The price is about $100. You get everything in one box (even a copier). Mine is a HP-1315 and I paid even less than $100 at Office Depot at the time (with rebate + it was a gift but that's beyond the point). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: find -mtime and wrong data return
find -type f -mtime +7 be careful, esp. if you do not use -type f . You can bracket 'between 7 and 9 days' etc with: find -type f -mtime +7 -a -mtime -9 This is useful for answering questions like 'wtf happened to my not-backed-up file xxx.c 3 days ago, pretty please $DEITY make there be a backup somewhere'. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
scheme compilation problem
Hello, I have a problem compiling mit scheme from sources. Has anybody seen this problem ? (there are 500+ hits on Google but no clear answer). thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mit scheme (-7.7.1) compilation bug
Error1: a typo in a source file (missing \n\ at end of line) in: src/microcode/pruxdld.c:79 Error2: Source compilation fails (linux i386 gcc-3.3.6) with: /utabmd.sh scheme: can't find a readable default for option -band. searched for file runtime.com in these directories: /usr/local/lib/mit-scheme Inconsistency detected. make[1]: *** [utabmd.bin] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/plp/download/scheme-7.7.1/src/microcode' make: *** [all] Error 2 Reason: utabmd.sh runs scheme with a nonexistant /usr/local/lib/mit-scheme runtime environment. The build fails for first-time builders and may succeed for people who have a working scheme and try to build the package. To confirm the bug, move /usr/local/lib/mit-scheme to /usr/local/lib/mit-scheme.moved and try to build. /usr/local/lib/mit-scheme does not exist at build time. any info is welcome, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: apache behind firewall
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Valery Reznic wrote: Good day. I have apache server behind firewall, which block all incoming connection and allow all outgoing and I'd like to access it from outside Is it a way to access this apache server from outside ? (something like ssh's option -R ) You are looking for port forwarding: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/forwarders.html Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: apache behind firewall
Q1: what kind of firewall ? NAT ? direct ? stateless ? stateful ? Q2: what type ? (linux, router, bsd, cisco ...) Peter _ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fax over VoIP
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: because the specifications just don't add up (the combination of the sound quality of VoIP and the requirements for a proper fax transmission). G711 is the SAME quality as POTS, or better. But you have to get rid of dropouts of any kind. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fax over VoIP
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Ira Abramov wrote: However I was specifically interested in Fax over VoIP, meaning I can hook up to the internet with a PC and no land line and send a fax through a VoIP session. whether it's my hosted server at an ISP where I don't want to install a phone line, or a laptop connected at a hotspot in a restaurant during lunch. a DOCSIS line is still tied to a specific modem at the end of your cable company's line at your home or office... You can fax over Voip and there is even a module for Asterisk for this. What you cannot do is fax reliably from a home DSL connection to a Voip PSTN termination. If the network load is high the connection will glitch and the remote fax will drop it after a number of retries. That's why you use a store-and-forward host in between (i.e. an Asterisk PBX running on a host with good bandwidth or directly at the PSTN origination hardware - aka FXO card present in Asterisk lingo). FYI G711 signalling is indistinguishable from PSTN from the end points, excepting in latency (it is even better than telco G711 because telcos use compression and bit stealing for signalling so the connection is not 64kBps clean as the Voip connection is - that's why intercontinental Voip connections often sound cleaner than even Nezeq local calls). Of course you will never fax over iLBC or GSM, only G711 will work. Usually it is best to buy services from a fax specialized company (like eFax). That allows you to do a lot of things for very little money (usually). Sometimes all you need is an IP as you can send G3 fax files directly to the server, and there are toolkits for bulk faxing and such. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Configuring BIND - DNS server
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Ariel Biener wrote: And of course no one said that you need to buy more hardware, just run two BIND servers on the same machine, each bound to its own IP address... I think that it is impolite to translate like that for geeks. They always know what is meant and only ask to start a small argument to see if they can find someone who does not. How would you even know if your service is abused ? Are you waiting for it to be abused ? What kind of technical (or management) decision is this ? The kind one takes after reading too many SANS security reports and too few HOWTOs (and strengthened by hearing voices that tell one what to do and who to suspect). http://www.zytrax.com/books/dns/ch4/ This is so unfair. Only official Microsoft documents are dogma. Everything else is to be considered communist propaganda. You are trying to corrupt him. He already knows the Truth. Each server must be installed with a valid license. Real geeks run many servers, each with its own operating system, and valid server license. And buy their children copies of Captain Copyright books and make sure they read them. Now, I can go on and quote tens of other resources on proper DNS configuration, however, I hope you get the picture. Communist propaganda ! Please stop ! sorry, I was bored and could not resist, sorry, so sorry (ok, I got over it), Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Adding hooks to user actions in linux shells
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Maxim Veksler wrote: On 3/8/07, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can overload PS1 with any code you want. It will run every time a PS1 prompt is displayed. Good tip, thank you. The answer of curse is PROMPT_COMMAND. http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/x264.html I actually meant what I said. PROMPT_COMMAND is also a possibility but: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ export PS1='$$:`date +%s` \$ ' 8376:1173442662 $ also works. Here is something more useful: export PS1='\u:[`jobs -p|wc -l`/`jobs -s|wc -l`] ' you can use a conditional and terminal control codes to colorize the nonzero stopped jobs for more effect (and ring a bell too since you're at it). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can a PHP script run in the background?
On Thu, 8 Mar 2007, Uri Even-Chen wrote: presses send, but I don't want the user to wait before he sees the confirmation message. Maybe I will just move the PHP script to the end of the file, after the /html tag. Will it work? use dhtml to fake the 'sending process' P = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can a PHP script run in the background?
On Thu, 8 Mar 2007, Uri Even-Chen wrote: On 3/8/07, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: use dhtml to fake the 'sending process' I'm not that familiar with dhtml. How do I do it? Use Javascript to show an animation of 'sending ... sending ... sent1' Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Random moves of the mouse
PS this is a reason for the claim that linux is not for the home user yet. I'm using windows since 95 on various hardwares, and never occured a problem with the crucial input/output (screen/keyboard/mouse). That would be 'Linux is not ready for desktops which use certain kinds of USB mice' ? I've never seen a problem with other mice, and with machines using only one USB pointer. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Peleg Wasserman wrote: The law was passed by 25 members of parliament, most of which come from religious factions. These people do not represent the majority of the people. No, they represent a fraction of the ruling coalition, which has passed hairier laws in the past, using the well-known quid pro quo arrangements with other coalition members from other parties. In this country the words 'don't worry only a few MKs voted for it' is a set of 'famous last words' because often such laws pass anyway due to the 'arrangements' between the coalition parties. Give me a stricter shabbat law and I'll give you some money for the kibbutzim, or vice versa. You know how it works. Second, while I do not agree with the way they decide speed limits (and I do enforce them every day), I see why a commission of experts can decide on speed limits based on empirical evidence, on the other hand I can see a lot of problems with a commission deciding on moral values, and porn after all is a moral value. The views of a Rabbi are totally Speed limits are related to physics, road and vehicle conditions, and psychology and driver experience. Probably 80% of experienced drivers would not pass a reaction test at the end of the day when driving home tired. Yet speed limits do not change by the time of day. Also they vary widely from country to country. But they do not change if it rains or snows, instead drivers are 'warned' to drive carefully. How come, since these are factors which influence the rate of accidents more than 'speed limits' ? Yet elsewhere people drive with almost 200 km/h for hours every day (on roads where this is permitted) and nothing interesting happens. Do you really think that a speed limit above 50 km/h and respecting it will save your life if an idiot runs into you at that speed, or if you hit a tree at that speed ? Did you know that the chances of death from being hit by a car are above 70% if the car is faster than 30 km/h and you do not get medical help immediately ? *whose* moral value is porn ? How do you define porn ? Pictures depicting nudity ? Pictures depicting more than one nude person ? Pictures depicting reproductive acts ? How do you know they are not simulating ? (in most cases porn artists are simulating). What if they are not nude ? What if they are pictures of people completely covered in, say, rubber diving suits and gas masks ? Is that porn ? If it's the guys from the diving club then it's not porn, but if they wear them far away from water then it's porn ? I very rarely watch porn and I have read enough to know that exposing an ankle or too much hair under an all-covering garb counts as porn in some places. Elsewhere little round disks pasted over the navel and nipples and having other details slightly blurred by 'clothes' thinner than paper is enough to consider a person 'decently covered' for public display purposes (as in advertising poster or magazine cover at any news stand). Where is your limit ? And do you think that such a limit can be defined democratically ? Let alone by the knesset ? So far there is a status quo of what can be displayed and what not. The status quo allows the majority of the public to go to the beach without wearing 18th century style bathing suits. Those who do not wish to participate don't. Newsstands who sell to modest customers do not have the magazines with the ladies on the front cover, and so on. While a kid could get easier access to porn from a home computer than from a newsstand, the method of the ISP filter (optional, not mandatory) is valid and working. Even my ISP has such a service: http://www.actcom.net.il/services/?page=%F1%E9%F0%E5%EF+%E0%FA%F8%E9%ED Who needs the knesset to make such laws ?! Peter P. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: adults. If a parent really want's they're kids looking at porn sites, they'll give them their password. Correct. And since they should have their own passwords and email why not buy them an internet account from an ISP that provides filtered service. Implementing password access at a cafe etc is impossible and undesirable, as everyone uses NAT and appears as one user. The filter would have to run at the cafe and provide differential login by age, and the filter would have to be updated every second as new sites are created. Public places are public because they are public. That includes airports, hotel lounges etc. Besides, are you aware of a url known as http://www.the-cloak.com ? There are thousands like it, and those used in China, NK etc also use encryption to make sure that no comrade or mullah from the thought police catches them. You cannot police a country because x teenagers might look at something, and you cannot police the internet in the first place because you so decided. So far the only means that have proven succesfull for muzzling servers have been legal. Places were shut down, servers confiscated. Two weeks later they started operating again from offshore servers, with multi-homing and backup servers in case some crazy commandos jump their new site somehow. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: No, they represent a fraction of the ruling coalition, which has passed hairier laws in the past, using the well-known quid pro quo arrangements with other coalition members from other parties. In this country the words 'don't worry only a few MKs voted for it' is a set of 'famous last words' because often such laws pass anyway due to the 'arrangements' between the coalition parties. Give me a stricter shabbat law and I'll give you some money for the kibbutzim, or vice versa. You know how it works. And before it becomes law it will be discussed and passed or vetoed by more and more members of knesset. The law of averages applies even in the quid pro quo dealings of political parties. On the average the laws passed will be reasonable and will represent the will of the majority even if that means that those opposing a stricter shabbat law thought it was worth passing if they could get money for kibbutzim. That is also part of the game. Since you are speaking of averages, as I demonstrated before: In any government coalition formed by minority fractions, ALL initiatives started by any one side are a minority initiative. It follows that no initiative would pass the vote of the others if it has any conflict of interest with them. But parties have exactly that to differentiate them, conflicts of interest. The reason *ANY* initiatives pass is the quid pro quo system in which one hand washes the other, and both wash the face. Exterior discussion is strongly opposed because the quid pro quo agreements are very difficult to make and maintain. There is alot of quid pro quoing going on behind closed doors. An external petition or other public involvment has the potential to throw a wrench in the works after the fact and cause *both* laws arranged in a quid pro quo not to pass. Strange as it seems, this is the way it works. You may have noticed that referendums and popular opinion polls are few and far between in Israeli politics. Ever wondered why ? That's one reason I am discouraged by politics in this country and do not take an interest. Since the law is targeted at people under the age of eighteen, I assume the commission will ask the question: Would I choose to show that to a 17 year old? As parents we make these decisions all the time and again it comes back to my original question- who actually wants their children to be looking at pornography? If there aren't legal definitions already, they'll be made- I'm sure that they won't as bad as you suggest. You are right to assume that I would rather stricter rules but I'll be happy with any rules. This is exactly like the laws that govern alcohool and tobacoo sales to children. They are there, and everyone breaks them every day, you can see kids under 18 smoking with a beer bottle in their hand everywhere. Why ? How ? Who ? Forget it. Speeding laws ? Guess who is breaking them (hint: teens). And you really think that a knesset law will implement a working control on the most dynamic media in existence, a feat that has eluded China and Iran ? Please. This is a technical forum, we all know what an IP tunnel and a SSL prxy can do. I just gave an example in the previous email. happy purim, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: Are you over 18? Type in your password and see whatever you want. Type your password WHERE in an Internet cafe ? And even if, what stops one to use https://www.the-cloak.com after that for free ? And one day after that is blocked https://some.where.else for NIS50 ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: On 3/3/07, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: adults. If a parent really want's they're kids looking at porn sites, they'll give them their password. Correct. And since they should have their own passwords and email why not buy them an internet account from an ISP that provides filtered service. Implementing password access at a cafe etc is impossible and undesirable, as everyone uses NAT and appears as one user. Actually- I know one of the developers of the Estonian online voting technology which identifies each voter based on a physical smart card and a password. which is exactly what is being discussed here- physical/biometric +password. I guess it's not too impossible to have a proxy at the ISP filter and require these forms of identification and I don't see why NAT makes a difference. Anyway- from what I hear, Internet cafe's are one of the more popular places in Estonia to vote. You are confusing a one to one relationship (surfer to voting center) with a one to many one (surfer vs. potentially an infinity or URLs). I've implemented several systems of this sort and you don't have to tell me that it's an uphill battle. I once blocked the municipality of Raanana or something like that because it's website was on shared hosting with a porn site (so goes the very small hosting business in Israel). Still, I don't have a problem with any law that attempts to fight that battle. Nor with the costs ? With the stupid childish mandatory software made by a company with 'exclusive' rights that happens to work only on Windows ? With the unceasing technical problems ? With crashed sessions when you try to surf your bank account the 7th time because the authentication software clashes with some gizmo you recently installed without knowing ? You are a technical person, you know what kind of pain it means to keep almost a million computers 'clean'. It requires 6*9. What software is 6*9 ?! Even without the definition of porn being what it is. And if you want to know what happens when things go wrong, here is an example from the land of all possibilities and freedom of speech, which has implemented a similar law in public libraries. A small mistake happened. Read on: http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article1464355.ece Oops, wrong popup ad from our trusty affiliates over whom we have almost no control. Now you popdown to jail for 40 years or so. So much for 'flexibility'. I leave it to your imagination what happens if such a thing occurs to an ISP or newspaper or magazine website after the law is implemented (even disregarding the possibility of someone doing it deliberately to cause trouble). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: You are confusing a one to one relationship (surfer to voting center) with a one to many one (surfer vs. potentially an infinity or URLs). No- I 'm suggesting a 1-1 relationship of surfer to ISP proxy. Try to think this through please. You go to an internet cafe. Open your laptop. Connect. To the wifi router which has an account at the cafe's ISP. The router makes you indistinguishable from the other 20 guests who use the cafe. If the ISP will implement the law then it will have to implement some kind of bridge to forward your VPN connection to your real ISP, and you can surf only through your ISP. This is technically impossible now, and utopical. How do they get paid ? The NAT in the wifi router makes you indistinguishable from the other guests. Captive session managers exist for wifi but they require a login at the router. Then you are paired by MAC with the session. Still this requires a very powerful router and then the filter to run on it. After all this, the way 'out' through a proxy on the net is still open, and always will be. Can you see where this is going ? You build a secure tunnel that leads to freedom as before. Nor with the costs ? With the stupid childish mandatory software made by a company with 'exclusive' rights that happens to work only on Windows ? With the unceasing technical problems ? With crashed sessions when you try to surf your bank account the 7th time because the authentication software clashes with some gizmo you recently installed without knowing ? I don't know what manditory software but I would guess that very little should be client side in such a set up- maximum a java applet for the physical identification which could be totally cross platform. ?! Please. You are talking about live distributed content filtering and a vpn to the ISP at least. Without this, a box in the middle (which can be anywhere on the net, including a 'cracked' router at a cafe etc) fixes the auth problem for good. As for your bank site-I highly doubt you would need to pass through the authentication system at all to browse it unless your bank is different than mine. Really ? According to the ideas in the law you could not get an IP without authentication. So you would certainly have to pass through the auth. Not to mention all the 'adult' webcams in this country (as you noticed) which are on the same subnets with everyone else. I don't see the connection- In this case the teacher was obviously negligent in leaving her computer open to use by students. Similar things occured in libraries and elsewhere. The teacher is not technically respnosible for what is happening. It was not her computer, she had no training and she had specific orders not to turn the machine off (and that also 'covers' covering it with a coat, even if that would not have started a fire after a long enough time). I leave it to your imagination what happens if such a thing occurs to an ISP or newspaper or magazine website after the law is implemented (even disregarding the possibility of someone doing it deliberately to cause trouble). I would actually suggest that ISPs have the option to use a third party system developed for the purpose. This third party system would be developed for by a company who wins a government bid and would be approved and maintained by/for the government. This could alleviate the problem of blame on the ISP side and fulfill the requirements of the law. ISPs not wishing to use the service would be open to legal action based on the quality of their solution. Sure, way to go. There will be yet another monopoly in this country. Mandatory chaperon software. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: enough (was Re: the great jerusalem firewall)
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007, Shlomo Solomon wrote: This completely off-topic thread has gone on far too long. Aside from two or three posts about possible LINUX issues, I fail to see why we are having this completely irrelevant discussion about porn, censorship, religion and who knows what else. ENOUGH I agree. I started this thread and now I declare it Godloosed. Now we must be the first ones to show our patriotism and support of the law-to-be by providing a low cost, secure, open source implementation of a highly reliable and configurable censorship daemon that will correspond to the requirements of the ministry in all respects, will work longer and crash less. I propose to call it mediumbrotherd. (big brother is taken - by Orwell). It could be a fork of the well-known squid (aka piovra) caching http proxy. Security could be handled by a guard dog, like Kerberos. Other details can be negotiated on a need-to-know basis. We could use two separate cvs servers so no developer can ever see the entire source code at one time. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
the great jerusalem firewall
We (more exactly *you*) are about to join Iran, China and North Korea. Are you ready ? http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3371412,00.html Peter P. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: I'm confused... is there any parent that wants their kids to freely and easily access pornography? Halevai the UN would treat pornography like they treat nuclear weapons. I am confused... is there any adult in this country who wants to be fingerprinted to be able to check his email or chat in an adult chat group (perhaps looking for a mate, perhaps not using very academic language all the time - i.e. without resorting to Victorian code along the lines of 'I wish I could tickle you softly' when someone means something entirely different, yes) ? By the way, your kids *do* go to the beach from time to time (without wearing blindfolds) ? Or not ? Sorry for asking, there is no need to answer, I'm just mumbling to myself. Of course I fully endorse setting up firewalls and content filters of any kind you wish at *your* premises. At a cost. And, g*d forbid the UN treat p0rn like they treat nuclear weapons, because if their treatment of Iran and Iraq and a couple of other countries (like NK) in the last ~17 years is any measure, then it would mean p0rn would be a minor misdemeanor ranked about equal to farting in public, to be punished with a pat on the back and the extraction of a promise not to do it again. Peter P. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote: I am confused... is there any adult in this country who wants to be fingerprinted to be able to check his email or chat in an adult chat group (perhaps looking for a mate, perhaps not using very academic language all the time - i.e. without resorting to Victorian code along the lines of 'I wish I could tickle you softly' when someone means something entirely different, yes) ? Someone with nothing to hide probably doesn't care. On the other hand, if their afraid that someone could find out what they're doing, maybe they shouldn't be doing it? Besides, I don't see any reason why the resulting identification system has to be personally traceable. The MI will strongly disagree. They are oh so near to nab all the potential kiddie p0rn lovers, and eavesdrop on everyone just in case (not that this does not happen already - I have had a quasi static IP on DSL for a few years now, without paying anything - ah the perks, the recognition !). And then there's the tax office, and politics (nothing like publishing a logged chat session to shoot down an inconvenient politician or officer's carreer five to ten years after the fact - see what they do in the US about this for details). By the way, your kids *do* go to the beach from time to time (without wearing blindfolds) ? Or not ? My kids are under 4 years old so they don't surf the web or the waves ;) but I don't really want them to be surfing porn sites when they grow up. By the time they grow up 8 year olds will likely crack public terminals using ninja handwaves and eyeblinks in front of the mandatory biometric id devices. Sorry for asking, there is no need to answer, I'm just mumbling to myself. Of course I fully endorse setting up firewalls and content filters of any kind you wish at *your* premises. At a cost. That's what people do now and it is less than effective. If you are worried about the investments necessary by the ISP's, I say start taxing porn users and take the money to pay the ISPs for their work. If this country can tax a $12k car into a 120k NIS car, they can tax porn users (and cigarette smokers while they're at it). As you say, 'That's what people do now and it is less than effective'. More exactly: the great china firewall has helped arrest about 20 times more potential political dissidents than kiddie p0rn amateurs, with excellent cooperation from the greatest technology Names from the land of all possibilities and freedom: CI*** Ya*** M** and G*. This has not stopped either piracy, p0rn, or political dissidence. On the contrary, all of these work much better now because they use cloaking, vpns, and things like tor.net as a standard, plus every blogger in China must use at least five pseudonyms since one of them was jailed for posting something inconvenient about some comrade or other. Egyptian bloggers recently learned the value of having untraceable nom de blogs recently, the hard way. As a result, nearly all downloads of tools which can implement these measures are blocked in China. That includes all Linux and BSD downloads of course, and many times access to linux mailing list archives. This country already 'shines' by being the only 'developed' country that does not have a Debian mirror, among other things. Just wait for what is coming next ? Do I have to dot the Is on how this affects Linux and BSD users in Israel ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
nearly nothing about taxation anyway (I come from one of the handicapped countries behind the Iron Curtain so I know more about five year planned disasters). I thought that I left that behind, but now it is catching up in the form of the great jerusalem firewall (there was considerable media censorship back then). I am so thrilled. NOT. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the great jerusalem firewall
professionals to set up content filters (like some kibbutzim and moshavim do) or use an appropriate ISP who provides this service for them. What is stopping you from using such a service ? And what is stopping those MKs who proposed the law from using it, come to think of it ? Are they very worried about the sheeple's horseshades being too wide ? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the current government and I certainly didn't vote for them, but there is nothing that stops the government from doing what you say and if they decide to do such a thing then apparently the majority of people around you would either choose to do something similar or they wouldn't care. Maybe you're just in the wrong country? This is not about who is in power. Maybe you're in the wrong century and prefer to forget all the precedents (including contemporary), many of which reflected we know how upon the history of the Jewish people ? It is not an accident that I compared this country with Iran, China and NK in the first message ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jpost + firefox = not good
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007, Dotan Cohen wrote: Firefox 2.x, Fedora Core 6 on Dell lappy using Actcom in Haifa. The site loads fine, and fast. But it sounds as if _your_ connection is slow or faulty. Where are you, and who is your ISP? I'm in TA my connection is not slow or faulty, and I use actcom. The problem is more subtle than that. I have f.ex. Opera and it works fine. The problem is a specific combination of FF 1.5.0.10 or 2.0, my firewall and ad blocks and the net. I am working on this on and off with support. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ghostscript command for viewing pages one at a time
-dNOPAUSE Changing resolution is not possible on the fly. PS is a programming language similar to FORTH (it uses IPN). You can do anything you want with it after you understand the language and the fact that what is being rendered may not be scalable sometimes. There should be a file called Use.htm installed on your system that will help a little. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ghostscript command for viewing pages one at a time
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Peter wrote: -dNOPAUSE Changing resolution is not possible on the fly. PS is a programming language similar to FORTH (it uses IPN). You can do anything you want with it after you understand the language and the fact that what is being rendered may not be scalable sometimes. There should be a file called Use.htm installed on your system that will help a little. Peter Thanks, but that only allows moving forward. It seems that I have no choice but to re-run gs whenever I need to change resolution or move between pages. Ghostview (gv) does almost exactly what you need. Take a look at how it works. It uses gs for rendering. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ghostscript command for viewing pages one at a time
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Peter wrote: Ghostview (gv) does almost exactly what you need. Take a look at how it works. It uses gs for rendering. Yeah, I know. gv doesn't do anything simple. It pretty much takes the input file apart (assuming I understood what it does correctly). Look, PS 'renders' pages in batches. The limits of a batch are usually at 'showpage'. Then and only then does gs output things. showpage is a PS command and it can be 'extended' easily by redefining it. The interpreter should pause at each page with -dNOPAUSE, exactly after showpage (or rather, inside it). I don't know how gv pages backwards, it is possible that it saves state and 'redoes' previous pages although I am not sure of this. gv does not have a huge memory footprint even when rendering 200+ page documents and it is very fast. So there must be a way. Imho get the source and take a peek. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jpost + firefox = not good
Has anyone got trouble loading jpost articles with FF ? try: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1171894527527pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull The page keeps loading for a long time, and displaying post replies opens a popup with all the trimmings and without the reply. And make sure all your UPSes are up and running. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
g++ compilation problem
Hi all, I have a compilation problem: when compiling opal-2.2.5 , g++ reports: 'g++: Internal error: Killed (program cc1plus)'. g++ is 'g++ (GCC) 3.3.6 (Debian 1:3.3.6-8)'. I would like to solve this without updating g++. Thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: g++ compilation problem
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Vassilii Khachaturov wrote: I have a compilation problem: when compiling opal-2.2.5 , g++ reports: 'g++: Internal error: Killed (program cc1plus)'. g++ is 'g++ (GCC) 3.3.6 (Debian 1:3.3.6-8)'. I would like to solve this without updating g++. I suggest to talk to the debian gcc team. If what they say is that you need to update, do it :) note that it is possible to have 1 gcc on the same machine, i.e., you can still have 3.3.6 as your default compiler, and only use 4.x.x as a non-default one by setting CC=... accordingly in the env. The last time I updated the compiler alone it was like being reborn aout 3 times. I would PREFER not to do that. And g++ says to file a bug report, not upgrade. thanks, Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: g++ compilation problem
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Baruch Even wrote: These days on Debian it's as simple as apt-get install g++-4.1 As you were told already, you can have multiple versions of gcc/g++ installed with ease. You are (wrongly) assuming that this can be done from woody - etch. Not so. There are other things I need to do before I can take that step. Peter P. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam in Wordpress
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007, Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Peter, from the post of Sat, 24 Feb: I am not a xenophobe I am a rudephobe. There are 2 to 4 rudes and 50 you were not talking about rude people, you were talking about how you fear for the safety of your cellphone and wallet every time you have to talk to an Israeli on the street. You imply that anybody I'd talk to would be Israeli. Now *that* is xenophobia ;-). Please re-read carefully what I wrote. In brief: I wrote that when someone (whom I do not know) talks *nicely* to me in (downtown) *TA* *then* I suspect secondary motives. that, my friend, is having a prejudice against the inhabitants of a country (even if it is the one you live in) Jumping to conclusions already ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam in Wordpress
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007, Ira Abramov wrote: Ahh, then you are a xenophobe. Have you considered a carreer in NOT being an Israeli? (that's rhetoric, no need to answer, this thread has gone off-topic enough). Is this the Israeli version of a godloose caluse in a message thread ? I am not a xenophobe I am a rudephobe. There are 2 to 4 rudes and 50 people/hour who aren't, who suffer because of that in the case noted. Don't worry about it, it is my problem. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ira, your email filter is really good. Can you breathe in there ?
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007, Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Peter, from the post of Thu, 22 Feb: - Transcript of session follows - ... while talking to kelly.abramov.org.: RCPT To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 451 Currently Sending Spam See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?192.114.47.64 what do you know... Actcom got listed in an RBL :-) Actcom gets listed in RBLs all the time because a) RBLs are stupid and don't understand legit business newsletters of which actcom users, who are companies, send a lot and b) RBLs like to list mail origins without checking them in general for sanity. This means that aol, yahoo etc are listed for spam ALL THE TIME and RBLs have heuristics that prevent such origins to be listed at all. Smaller isp companies which are neither small enough not to matter nor large enough to matter make it into RBLs, very often because irate users misuse or forget about mailing list accounts, opt ins, and such. That's why RBLs suck. Use a Bayesian filter of your own instead, it will learn what 'you' (or your company, or your list group) define as spam and keep it that way. When you use Akismet etc you use just that, and they should pay you for being the human turk who trains their filters by reporting falses. Oh yes, they let you do it for free. I have no problem with that, but I prefer to train my own filter. Message ccd to the list. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam in Wordpress
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007, Ira Abramov wrote: Speaking of respect, it would be a miracle if anybody would show any. I respect people who deserve it (hint, not people who take Alan's name in vain) Which Alan ? I'll see your Alan and raise you an ESR (author of Bogofilter). It's just proper for a dracnoic security measure to be implemented by a guy who is a known gun nut, I think. Either that, or a typo. In the land of bilk and honey people show respect when they have secondary motives. Sounds like California to me. Live there for a while, hated the awkwardness of the communication with people. It seems they ALWAYS have secondary AND tertiary motives (in soap operas - sometimes quaternary, and even quinary). To each his own horseshades. I come from Europe and I will never get used to rudeness. The clowns at the local grocery who invariably chat while standing in the door and will not budge to let clients in or out without shoving are risking their lives daily but they don't know it. There are people who try such things over there too. They try it ONCE. After that they no longer work there and get banned as clients. On the other hand, I've been living in TA for 15 years and I have developed a keen sense of danger when someone smiles openly and shakes my hand and chats me up. I immediately assure my back, pat my wallet to make sure it is still there, check that the cell phone is still in my pocket, and start the wayback machine to try to work out in what context I am about to be s*d, while keeping a lokout for any accomplices approaching. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: Wordpress Captcha
http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensa=Xoi=spellresnum=0ct=resultcd=1q=wordpress+captchaspell=1 Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Decorating a kernel function
What you need is to put a trampoline of sorts at the start of the function, this is similar to what kprobe does, the difference would be that kprobe places an int3 and you'll need to place a direct call to your replacing method. At the end of your function you need to call the original method, either bby temporarily restoring the original location or by copying it to another place and running it there. Hotpatching a reentrant function while timesharing is on is a really bad idea imho. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam in Wordpress
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Ira Abramov wrote: Humm, I guess the filter IS really strong. I'm resending, this time acting like a spammer and changing the spelling a bit. :-) Change it a bit more. I found it in the spam bin AGAIN. Now, if you could please stop the silly misuse of the term Turing test and give a bit more respect to the readers of this list, you may win back SOME of it one day. In a way when you said you failed the TURING TEST set up by CAPTCHA you actually confessed that you are part machine ... any borg parts inside ? (Windows CE powered pacemaker etc ? Small titanium bolts holding bones together - you know, borgification starts small) Speaking of respect, it would be a miracle if anybody would show any. Either that, or a typo. In the land of bilk and honey people show respect when they have secondary motives. the filters will actually junk my message, and force me to be politically correct, yes ? So, you know, I don't care what bra(i)ns the local great firewall uses for logic, if it makes me change the way I express myself then it's censorship. well, if you want to sell ... No, I don't sell and don't want to sell. I want to have human feedback when I exceed something or other. Not borg feedback. And speaking of borg standards, I will NOT have any standards imposed by entities who consider photographs of one's own children and family stored in one's own computer (or emailing them between family) 'child pornography' and then allow 'suspects' to exercise their liberty of speech by allowing them to make use of their MIRANDA rights. And make that three stopped emails (this is the third). You know, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and claims to be a swan. Come on. Besides on a subscribed mailing list filtering one's postings for spam is an insult. It implies that one is not trusted. it implies that SMTP is not trusted. and indeed it isn't. it SUCKS. So then it's like a bank where you register and open an account, put in money but are never allowed to withdraw any of it because 'your credit card and cheques may be forged' ? Have you read Kafka ? Esp. 'The Trial' ? Catch 22 ? Solzhenytsin ? You know, the safest way to live is to stop breathing and eating. That way no toxins can reach you. Of course life will be very short but it will be of the best quality, and with the least impact on the environment. I didn't make SMTP, I use it like everyone else. If there is another way to send email I am interested. P. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Decorating a kernel function
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Hi, Is it possible to replace a function in the kernel (using a module) without recompiling. This function is an exported function. Basically i wish to extend a functionality of a function (without asking for a stub at this point). Specifically the function void submit_bio(int rw, struct bio *bio) in /block/ll_rw_blk.c Not that i can't recompile the kernel, it is just that i want to create a module that would be able to be distributed with more convenience. The idea, of course, is to call the submit_bio using the new function but also do other stuff afterward. Basically i wish to extend the functionallity of block_dump (for fun and study purposes) to be centralized in some /proc entry with some stats. I remember that this is described in the linux drivers books or someplace like that. Afaik it involves moving the code of the original function or something like that. It is a two step process, with a loader stub doing some work, then the actual new function is loaded and patched (?) in. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: Or the timer expires and makes the waiter do some test and repeat job, which falls under my definition of busy wait (even if it gets to rest for a while between iterations). The wait consists in yielding. The process spends user time only while not in select() for timeout values which are not smaller than the fundamental timeslice. Huh?? When a group leader exits his parent gets SIGCHLD. That's one of those sticky PITA's of UNIX process programming. (I've just double-checked this with a quick program which demonstrate it). The only way I can remember to avoid receving SIGCHLD is by setting it's handler to SIG_IGN (ignore). A correctly written pgld has no parent. When it dies its exit signal goes to init. You are getting off subject - the original question was about how to find out that the other side of a socketpair has closed it. There is none. That's the point. You can monitor the pid to see if it went away. Worse if the process becomes a zombie then even that will not work. You cannot make assumptions about a resource someone else owns. That's why properly written daemons are important. They cannot become zombies (because init always exists). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam in Wordpress
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Uri Even-Chen wrote: Hi people, I have a Wordpress blog [http://www.speedy.net/uri/blog/] and I get lots of spam as responses. I don't have time to read all the spam and delete it. Is there a way to eliminate this spam? Or at least block the option of responding altogether? There are hundreds of spam responses to each article. Uri. Prefer Yehoshua's solution to Peter's, as it does not discriminate against blind. There are captcha implementations that use audio for the blind. ANY method that 'automatically' detects spam is a form of censorship and is far less than perfect. Essentially you are allownig a third party to judge answers for you. The linux-il spam filters prove this every other day by netting flase positives. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: I did not understand the current problem, however, just giving my 2c blindly so...: 1. Internet sockets using tcp protocol is the same as using select with a timeout since this is what the tcp protocol is doing. Timeouts. No. The internet sockets have a close() call which notifies the other side that this side went down. They also have a timeout in case this does not happen (SO_LINGER etc), or if the other side was nuked. Local sockets have none of these properties. The OS assumes that whoever made the sockets will take care of them. There is no nanny. 2. Can't all this discussion be solved by simply reading the /proc directory as a failsafe measure for whatever is the purpose of finding out if a process is still alive? There is no 'failsafe' external to a program. One can decide that a program works or not by inspecting its inputs and outputs from time to time. If there are none for some time one can decide that it is dead. But this can be wrong. Really important programs are actually executed in parallel on different computers and the outputs compared all the time. When the outputs of three such computers are not the same then two out of three decide that the third is 'wrong'. In general, it should be obvious to anyone having some common sense that a 'small simple program or wrapper' cannot guess whether a 'large complex program' is doing what it is supposed to do. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Essentially you are right that poking a system to see if it is alive can bite your hand. I wonder if there is a FOSS event engine out there aside from the one i know from IBM. Check out 'watcher' by kenneth ingham. It has a different purpose but it 'watches' things. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam in Wordpress
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Peter, from the post of Mon, 19 Feb: Prefer Yehoshua's solution to Peter's, as it does not discriminate against blind. funny, I find Captcha blindly discriminates against humans in general :-) It depends. It's just a Turing test. When artificial stupidity will be up to the level of the average user then we will need to worry. Not before. Meanwhile captcha with sound alternative is the most used Turing test on the net. It seems to work for sites with 10,000,000+ users. There are captcha implementations that use audio for the blind. ANY method that 'automatically' detects spam is a form of censorship and is far less than perfect. I think you need to read up a bit about what censorship is and isn't. Using dictionary words in a message that is filtered by a glorified Bayesian filter (even one sustained by humans) tends to be difficult. Can you guess what happens after 2000 messages training with words like doc... and pil... ? Then if I want to be just a little bit politically incorrect and use colloquial remarks like ene.. bu.. and pe... or di.. , the filters will actually junk my message, and force me to be politically correct, yes ? So, you know, I don't care what bra(i)ns the local great firewall uses for logic, if it makes me change the way I express myself then it's censorship. You know, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and claims to be a swan. Come on. Besides on a subscribed mailing list filtering one's postings for spam is an insult. It implies that one is not trusted. you would be surprised that Akismet and similar tools do smart filtering of text based on keywords and numbers of links, but definitely not based on ideas. they also allow you to save messages from the dumpsters if they had a false positive. It's hard enough to express myself without making up new words for doc... and pil.. and via... even without the filters. Essentially you are allownig a third party to judge answers for you. well, that judge is completely in your mercy, so it's hardly third party, now is it? you can overrule it, change its rules and so on. Yes but it's 'them', not 'me'. They are everywhere. Watch your back. What are you on about? next you'll be shouting you are opressed by the machines and how they are slowly taking over the world! You noticed too ! At last ! So I am not really crazy ? Wow, thanks, buddy. I really needed that. Stop reading SciFi for a month or two :-) I am reading this mailing list, that's plenty enough ... Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: looking for a drawing application
The drawing program in OO can draw pretty nice connected graphs (dynamically connected). They can be put directly into a presentation if needed. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
Which pid? The child may very well have forked and exited so the parent is actually talking to its grand-children, it could also be that multiple processes are sharing the same socketpair on the other side (that's another contingency I'll have to take care of). Then again - if the socketpair() is connected (e.g. SOCK_STREAM or SOCK_SEQPACKET) then the kernel will notify the parent as soon as the other side was closed. Remember we are talking about Unix domain sockets. See: http://www.erlenstar.demon.co.uk/unix/faq_2.html 1.1) last 2 paragraphs and 1.6), 1.7) . Note the part about 'not confusing inetd' at the end of 1.7). This is almost the problem you have. Any sockets which are not TCP sockets do not have a 'remote' close mechanism. This includes all UDP an unix domain sockets as well as fifos and other devices like that. All of these need to be taken care of by their respective applications. There is NO mechanism in the system to check or guarantee anything about them. They are entirely owned and operated by the process(es) that own them. If the remote goes away and these resources are accessed in blocking mode without a timeout then the accessing process will hang forever. This is normal. It is up to the programmer to prevent this. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: You are getting off subject - the original question was about how to find out that the other side of a socketpair has closed it. There is none. That's the point. You can monitor the pid to see if it went away. Worse if the process becomes a zombie then even that will not Which pid? The child may very well have forked and exited so the parent is actually talking to its grand-children, it could also be that multiple processes are sharing the same socketpair on the other side (that's another contingency I'll have to take care of). Then again - if the socketpair() is connected (e.g. SOCK_STREAM or SOCK_SEQPACKET) then the kernel will notify the parent as soon as the other side was closed. Remember we are talking about Unix domain sockets. Maybe I did not get the question. We seem to be talking past each other. man socket(2) says that SOCK_STREAM type sockets implement a timeout so they DO detect that the remote it not ok (by hiatus). SOCK_SEQPACKET seems to be mutually exclusive with nonblocking use. setsockopt(2) documents the timeouts which you can set. Peter (dense at 4AM) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: That's why you must use both a reaper and select() with timeout. What's the point of select(2) with a timeout? How long should the timeout be set and what should be checked when it's reached? Why wouldn't a child reaper be enough in the situation Baruch describes? In general - I'm very vey unfond of solutions which involve busy waits (and a select with a timeout is busy wait in my dictionary). This is not a busy wait at all. Select with a timeout yields until one of the sockets needs attention. It is very possible and very likely that there will be no SIGCHLD from a properly written deaemon child because it will become a process group leader. Also many daemons whose source is not available will go into the background and become a pgld as above and thus anything forking them will exit and give off a SIGCHLD. There is NO way to tell if a daemon is 'alive' or stuck etc excepting when it sends or receives data through a socket. The only part of the system that is able to detect this is the network subsystem, using iptables or the method applied by SE Linux. iptables can be 'booby trapped' to call a user mode application when packets are detected on certain ports. This can be used to open the firewall when needed if desired (like windows firewalls do). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Converting to UTF-8 encoding
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, Uri Even-Chen wrote: I wrote: Anyone knows about good UTF-8 text editors? Let me explain: I have to use it on Windows, and I need a search replace feature on many files simultaneously. Emacs ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux servers vs. Microsoft servers
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, Uri Even-Chen wrote: Hi Peter, On 2/18/07, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Basically, it is you who impressed the TCO of the current system on your father's firm. OK, I admit it's partly my fault. But it was not only my decision. It was about 10 years ago, my father consulted an expert and he recommended using Microsoft Access. It was my father who decided to use Access. I developed the application, it took me years and I don't want to do the same work all over again. So I guess we are stuck ;-) I can understand that but now it's time to get paid for the pain you suffered. Many times the 'second' take works much faster and better than the first, esp. if you did something very common among VB coders (known as 'spaghetti ad hoc' style). You might even enjoy doing it again. By the way, 10 years ago there was no PHP, no MySQL as far as I know, and no alternatives to Access. There was something called Magic, this might have been the only alternative. Even today, I don't know any application which has all the features of Access, and it has many features. But the problem is that Microsoft doesn't want it to be compatible with any non-Windows environment. And it's not. Access is not exactly the most renowned database product. I wrote some options you had then. Perl and web based applications were possible by then. If we were to hire a programmer or company to write the whole application again from scratch, it will probably cost us at least tens of thousands of dollars. And what for? Just so we will be able to say that we use Open Source technology? I don't think so. My father doesn't care about Open Source, he wants the work to be done. And the work is done using Access. Then, use Access. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Converting to UTF-8 encoding
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, Uri Even-Chen wrote: On 2/18/07, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Emacs ? Does it support UTF-8? Does it support search replace on many files simultaneously? Which version of Emacs (for Windows XP) do you recommend? And where do I download it? Uri. http://math.claremontmckenna.edu/ALee/emacs/emacs.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam in Wordpress
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, Uri Even-Chen wrote: Hi people, I have a Wordpress blog [http://www.speedy.net/uri/blog/] and I get lots of spam as responses. I don't have time to read all the spam and delete it. Is there a way to eliminate this spam? Or at least block the option of responding altogether? There are hundreds of spam responses to each article. Install captcha Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quickest way to list content of directory(s)
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Gilboa Davara wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-15 at 19:23 +0200, Peter wrote: On Thu, 15 Feb 2007, Gilboa Davara wrote: Small example. About two years ago I go bored, and decided to implement binary trees in (x86) Assembly. The end result was between 2-10 times faster then GCC (-O2/-O3) generated code. (Depending the size of the tree) The main reason being the lack of a 3 way comparison in C. (above/below/equal) And assembly lacks it too. !!!? cmp $eax,$ebx jb label_below ja label_above equal code Each jump is equivalent with a cache line flush. But in C you can get creative with compound statements: int x,y; register int t; (t = x - y) (((t 0) below()) || above()) || equal(); .. Which will only work if the below/above/equal are made of short statements which is a very problematic pre-requisite. inline int below(your,optional,arguments); will work fine. So will: #define below(a,b,c) (z=a+b+c) In my case I needed to store some additional information in each leaf - making each step a compound statement by itself. (which in-turn, rendered your compound less effective) Don't be so sure about that. A compound statement can be optimized very well. which wastes 1 register variable. Still, there is no guarantee that this generates faster code than an optimizing compiler (and gcc is not known among the best optimizing compilers). Rewriting above using binary operators and masks may be even faster. The same code was also tested under Visual Studio 2K3 and showed the same results. The assembly code was considerably faster then the VS generate binary. Assembly is not portable and it is a *** to debug. Yes, you can make it run faster. It's fun for the 1st few days, after that you need to change something or port it to a NSLU2 and things stop being nice very fast. Especially if someone else needs to compile your code. Atomic code execution should not require assembly because segment locking can be done using C (even if that C is inline assembly for some applications). A. I -was- talking about in-line assembly. B. How can I implement lock btX/inc/dec/sub/add in pure C? (Let alone using the resulting flags. [setXX]) BTW, another valid excuse to using assembly (at least in register-barren-world-known-as-i386) is the ability to trash the base pointer. (every register count.) Again, why are you assuming x86 assembly is the target ? It could be ARM or MIPS or PPC. Optimizing x86 makes sense for extreme driver writing, kernel code and such. Otherwise it makes little sense on a platform that doubles its MIPS speed every 2 years. lock exists only on x86 and it exists because x86 is a brainf***d architecture that allows 'long instructions' (once upon a time known as microcode) to be interrupted in the middle. I assure you that this is a very unique feature among CPUs. Think about it, it's the only popular CPU that can be proud of being theoretically able to throw an EINTR *inside* a machine code instruction. Modifying BP + small mistake = crash. Oops. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: Digging a bit more in the kernel source I see that since the SOCK_DGRAM sockets are not connected, closing one side won't bother to inform the other side about the shutdown. Switching to SOCK_SEQPACKET solved the problem. This means that privbind will depend on kernel 2.6.4 or above. Another option (to keep privbind more portable) is to try to move to stream sockets and implement message boundaries at the application level... Use select on the socket and implement timeouts. Also set a flag in the SIGCHLD handler of the parent to notify the relevant part of the code to stop listening. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Baruch Even wrote: You assume that the signal was received in the recv() call, you'll have a race condition where a child might die just before you go into recv() and the child is never reaped. The chance might be small to miniscule but it's still there. That's why you must use both a reaper and select() with timeout. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recvmsg on dgram socketpair blocks on open socket?
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Is there an added value in contrast of just using a simple server that accepts on low ports but bounces the packets to a low privileged port? The easy way to do this was discussed before, it's called port forwarding. It's done at the firewall level. See REDIRECT target in iptables manual. Implementing a mini-daemon or control script that runs under sudo to turn the feature on or off is trivial. E.g.: http://www.faqs.org/docs/iptables/targets.html iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT \ --to-ports 8080 Which allows you to run e.g. Apache as nonprivileged user on port 8080. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: script problem
Beware that ls prints several items per line. Try ls -1. Also numbers that start with 0 are interpreted as octal. They will cause strange things to happen to the output. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: script problem
By the way this can be done much better in Perl. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quickest way to list content of directory(s)
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007, Gilboa Davara wrote: Small example. About two years ago I go bored, and decided to implement binary trees in (x86) Assembly. The end result was between 2-10 times faster then GCC (-O2/-O3) generated code. (Depending the size of the tree) The main reason being the lack of a 3 way comparison in C. (above/below/equal) And assembly lacks it too. But in C you can get creative with compound statements: int x,y; register int t; (t = x - y) (((t 0) below()) || above()) || equal(); which wastes 1 register variable. Still, there is no guarantee that this generates faster code than an optimizing compiler (and gcc is not known among the best optimizing compilers). Rewriting above using binary operators and masks may be even faster. Atomic code execution should not require assembly because segment locking can be done using C (even if that C is inline assembly for some applications). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quickest way to list content of directory(s)
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Amos Shapira wrote: On 16/02/07, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Atomic code execution should not require assembly because segment locking can be done using C (even if that C is inline assembly for some applications). And how would you implement the lock on the segment? (assuming I guess correctly what you mean by segment locking, the closest I found was related to ELF file segments and POSIX file segment locking). By segment I mean the relevant variables of the process. Atomic code execution cannot be guaranteed at user level in a premptive multitasking system. However the system guarantees thread privacy. The only way to make things 'atomic' it to run the process with root privileges and switch the sheduler to SCHED_RR and assign it a high priority. Even so hw interrupts will interrupt it. So only kernel mode code can be 'atomic'. That or realtime extensions (which are equivalent to SCHED_RR in kernel mode). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quickest way to list content of directory(s)
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: On Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 08:18:16AM +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Just for the record, it is not at all clear that, on modern CPUs, code you write in machine code (or even Assembly) will, in fact, run faster. The compiler can be quite good at opimizing your code for machine language expression, often much better than you would be. However, a good assembly langunage programer can write code the is leaner and meaner than a compiler generates. In practical terms, a good C programmer can often write code that is close, and parallel processing CPUs where the order of instructions is critical a good compiler can outdo an assembly language programmer. HOW do you write 'lean and mean' assembly for a quad core board with AMD or Pentium stepping (to be chosen at runtime) ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
