Re: Qtext
Hi, I talked with Itzhak Mintz yesterday. He told me several things: 1. The only windows specific bit in Qtext is that certain classes inherit from a class for a generic window (something called hwindow). Everything else (including buttons, menus, fonts ...) is their own. I guess this should make the porting effort minimal. 2. He would like to be in contact with someone who is willing to take responsibility for the porting project. If there is someone who is willing to do this, please email me. 3. The algorithms are not patented. Furthermore, he claims that the same ideas that they use in QText can be applied in general to solve most of the bidi problems (in essence, the idea is that the standards should be changed so that all non-word characters will have a r2l version, so there will be a r2l '-', a r2l ' ' and so on). He said that if someone is interested in addopting it for the system level (whatever it means... I gather that bidi support is dealt with in QT, but I have no idea what happens with applications that are not QT based), he is willing to help. If someone is interested in this, please email me. He also showed me their last version for windows, and it *is* much better than whatever I saw so far (actually, it seems better than M$ word even without the bidi issues). Moshe PS: I'm going to miluim this Monday for a month, so if you want to contact him through me, send me an email before that. Moshe Kaminsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] [24/09/02 11:27]: Hi, When I was a kid, I used a word processor called Qtext on my dos machine. It was a freeware written by an Israeli guy, and had a better (by far) bidi support than any alternative I knew. Yesterday, I discovered that I work with the guy who wrote it in the same room. He told me that Qtext still exists, it is no longer a freeware (it belongs to his kibutz) and that it still has the best bidi support (they have only a window$ version). He also told me that the developement of Qtext has stopped, since people seem to prefer M$ word (apparently for the same obscure reasons they prefer other M$ software :). Anyway, he told me that they might be willing to sell the source. Since they ceased developing it, I guess the price won't be very high, and if it is possible to port it to linux, this might be the best bidi word processor we have (it also supports Arabic and nikud). My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Moshe -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:17:41 +0300, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: I talked with Itzhak Mintz yesterday. He told me several things: 2. He would like to be in contact with someone who is willing to take responsibility for the porting project. If there is someone who is willing to do this, please email me. As I have some exprience with both BiDi and Object-Pascal/Delphi, and think QText 5.5 was the best word-processor, ever, I'd be happy to volunteer for this job. Shay. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: Matitiahu Allouche [EMAIL PROTECTED] [27/09/02 13:29]: The main problem in a Bidi word processor is not how to transform logical to visual format. As Tzafrir Cohen mentioned, there are a number of libraries available for this purpose, which all generally produce the same results, the exceptions being for rather off-beat cases. The main problem is with the *interface*, mainly what should Delete, Backspace etc... perform, where the caret (or text cursor) should go after given operations, how to handle selection, to name a few important issues. Well, if you have the additional information that your character is a r2l character (even if it is a space or parentheses), this can help you decide what to do. I actually saw how both Backspace and selection work in QText, and it seems to work great. Neither of them made sense to me. Furthermore, Qtext conforms to the Win3.1 language switching convention, right-alt-shift always switches to Hebrew while left-alt-shift always switches to English, while Win9x uses both alt-shift simply as switch language, which means that the language shown on the toolbar is not necessarily the language Qtext writes in. -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Uri Bruck [EMAIL PROTECTED] [27/09/02 23:11]: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: Matitiahu Allouche [EMAIL PROTECTED] [27/09/02 13:29]: The main problem in a Bidi word processor is not how to transform logical to visual format. As Tzafrir Cohen mentioned, there are a number of libraries available for this purpose, which all generally produce the same results, the exceptions being for rather off-beat cases. The main problem is with the *interface*, mainly what should Delete, Backspace etc... perform, where the caret (or text cursor) should go after given operations, how to handle selection, to name a few important issues. Well, if you have the additional information that your character is a r2l character (even if it is a space or parentheses), this can help you decide what to do. I actually saw how both Backspace and selection work in QText, and it seems to work great. Neither of them made sense to me. Furthermore, Qtext conforms to the Win3.1 language switching convention, right-alt-shift always switches to Hebrew while left-alt-shift always switches to English, while Win9x uses both alt-shift simply as switch language, which means that the language shown on the toolbar is not necessarily the language Qtext writes in. QText does not use windows to handle bidi, but handles it internally. That's what makes it work. I think that being non windows compatible is a small price to pay for a working bidi support. -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net Moshe = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
Guy Baruch [EMAIL PROTECTED] [25/09/02 12:27]:
There's something in this thread I may be a bit too simple to understand.
I assume bidi support is really better than in current products, are the
algorithms
patented?
This question never occured to me, and he didn't mention anything about
it. I think that when he released the first versions, people were not
patenting algorithms, and I don't think he ever published the algorithm,
so my guess is that they are not patented. I'll ask him. Anyway, he
claims (and I believe him) that bidi support in Qtext is significantly
better than in M$ word.
Word8 (that is: Word97), you mean.
if so, I'm not really sure what good will releasing _the source_ to public
domain will do, at least for law-abiding entities ( {persons} \subset
{entities} ... :) ).
If , OTOH, there are no patents, than wouldn't releasing the source be
beneficial to other projects regardless of the porting effort ?
Yes, assuming the people who work there are willing to read the source,
extract the algorithms and apply them to those projects (which, I guess,
might be quite a lot of work). If they *are* willing to do this, perhaps
getting the algorithms will be easier than getting the source.
libbidiqtext may be nice, but...
Currently fribidi, IBM's ICU and QT3 both implement basically the same
algorithm for converting logical-visual text. (as defined in the unicode
standard). This standard does not define how an interactive application
that edits text should behave, and leaves a number of problematic issues,
but I tend to suspect that qtext's algorithms deviate from it.
Qtext itself is the immediate destination. The ability to read and do
something useful with qtext files would also be nice.
--
Tzafrir Cohen
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir
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Re: Qtext
Uri Bruck wrote: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: I guess a relevant bit of information here is that this program is written in Delphi, which is some variant of Pascal. As far as I can recall, Delphi was very similar in concept to visual C++ except that it was based on Pascal instead of C. Sort of MFC-like Not. unlike Visual C++, Delphi was really visual programming. you can compare it to Visual Basic (the product which it was developed to fight), except that VB suck and Delphi doesn't. the Borland Visual C++ killer is C++ Builder. Does the Windows version have its own Hebrew support or does it use Windows Hebrew support? QText uses direct GDI calls for everything - it even draws its own fonts. that way you can have hebrew (and other languages- the last version I worked with supported over 30 languages) even on english only windows. I think that porting that would be easier, as the number of API calls used will be relativly small. -- Oded ::.. There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear. -- Daniel Dennett = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
There's something in this thread I may be a bit too simple to understand.
I assume bidi support is really better than in current products, are the
algorithms
patented ?
if so, I'm not really sure what good will releasing _the source_ to public
domain will do, at least for law-abiding entities ( {persons} \subset
{entities} ... :) ).
If , OTOH, there are no patents, than wouldn't releasing the source be
beneficial to other projects regardless of the porting effort ?
To summarize, it seems to me the porting effort, requires that
the source be released, but IMHO its' feasibility should not hinder efforts
to release the source.
I, for one, am willing to donate a modest amount (~100 shekels) for the
explicit
purpose of releasing the source (unburdened by patents) to public domain.
Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
Hi,
When I was a kid, I used a word processor called Qtext on my dos
machine. It was a freeware written by an Israeli guy, and had a better
(by far) bidi support than any alternative I knew.
Yesterday, I discovered that I work with the guy who wrote it in the
same room. He told me that Qtext still exists, it is no longer a
freeware (it belongs to his kibutz) and that it still has the best bidi
support (they have only a window$ version). He also told me that the
developement of Qtext has stopped, since people seem to prefer M$ word
(apparently for the same obscure reasons they prefer other M$
software :). Anyway, he told me that they might be willing to sell the
source. Since they ceased developing it, I guess the price won't be very
high, and if it is possible to port it to linux, this might be the best
bidi word processor we have (it also supports Arabic and nikud).
My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it?
Moshe
--
Moshe Kaminsky
(Home) 08-9471073
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-- regards
+---
+ Guy Baruch , Plasma Laboratory, Weizmann Institue.
+ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+ phone: 972-8-934-2211
+---
They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.
--English folk poem, circa 1764
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Re: Qtext
On Wed, Sep 25, 2002, Guy Baruch wrote about Re: Qtext: +--- + Guy Baruch , Plasma Laboratory, Weizmann Institue. + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] + phone: 972-8-934-2211 +--- They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. --English folk poem, circa 1764 Interesting sig. People who don't know what this means might benefit from reading David Bollier's Reclaiming the Commons, at http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR27.3/bollier.html -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Sep 25 2002, 19 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |It is better to be thought a fool, then http://nadav.harel.org.il |to open your mouth and remove all doubt. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Guy Baruch [EMAIL PROTECTED] [25/09/02 12:27]:
There's something in this thread I may be a bit too simple to understand.
I assume bidi support is really better than in current products, are the
algorithms
patented ?
This question never occured to me, and he didn't mention anything about
it. I think that when he released the first versions, people were not
patenting algorithms, and I don't think he ever published the algorithm,
so my guess is that they are not patented. I'll ask him. Anyway, he
claims (and I believe him) that bidi support in Qtext is significantly
better than in M$ word.
if so, I'm not really sure what good will releasing _the source_ to public
domain will do, at least for law-abiding entities ( {persons} \subset
{entities} ... :) ).
If , OTOH, there are no patents, than wouldn't releasing the source be
beneficial to other projects regardless of the porting effort ?
Yes, assuming the people who work there are willing to read the source,
extract the algorithms and apply them to those projects (which, I guess,
might be quite a lot of work). If they *are* willing to do this, perhaps
getting the algorithms will be easier than getting the source.
To summarize, it seems to me the porting effort, requires that
the source be released, but IMHO its' feasibility should not hinder efforts
to release the source.
I, for one, am willing to donate a modest amount (~100 shekels) for the
explicit
purpose of releasing the source (unburdened by patents) to public domain.
Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
Hi,
When I was a kid, I used a word processor called Qtext on my dos
machine. It was a freeware written by an Israeli guy, and had a better
(by far) bidi support than any alternative I knew.
Yesterday, I discovered that I work with the guy who wrote it in the
same room. He told me that Qtext still exists, it is no longer a
freeware (it belongs to his kibutz) and that it still has the best bidi
support (they have only a window$ version). He also told me that the
developement of Qtext has stopped, since people seem to prefer M$ word
(apparently for the same obscure reasons they prefer other M$
software :). Anyway, he told me that they might be willing to sell the
source. Since they ceased developing it, I guess the price won't be very
high, and if it is possible to port it to linux, this might be the best
bidi word processor we have (it also supports Arabic and nikud).
My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it?
Moshe
--
Moshe Kaminsky
(Home) 08-9471073
=
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the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
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--
-- regards
+---
+ Guy Baruch , Plasma Laboratory, Weizmann Institue.
+ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+ phone: 972-8-934-2211
+---
They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.
--English folk poem, circa 1764
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Re: Qtext
Guy Baruch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I assume bidi support is really better than in current products, are the algorithms patented ? I presume that Qtext dates back to the blissful old days when algorithms could not be patented... -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Qtext
Hi, When I was a kid, I used a word processor called Qtext on my dos machine. It was a freeware written by an Israeli guy, and had a better (by far) bidi support than any alternative I knew. Yesterday, I discovered that I work with the guy who wrote it in the same room. He told me that Qtext still exists, it is no longer a freeware (it belongs to his kibutz) and that it still has the best bidi support (they have only a window$ version). He also told me that the developement of Qtext has stopped, since people seem to prefer M$ word (apparently for the same obscure reasons they prefer other M$ software :). Anyway, he told me that they might be willing to sell the source. Since they ceased developing it, I guess the price won't be very high, and if it is possible to port it to linux, this might be the best bidi word processor we have (it also supports Arabic and nikud). My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Moshe -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a 'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Too many journalists think that C4I really stands for Inteligence, Communication, Control, Computers and Consiparcy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Hi Moshe,
The source code was probably not written in a way that can be ported -
e.g. the display aspect is probably not isolated by a portability layer
but probably uses direct calles to MFC, OWL or some other proprietary
widget library that does not lend itself to portability. This would make
the source code worthless.
Regards,
- yba
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
Hi,
When I was a kid, I used a word processor called Qtext on my dos
machine. It was a freeware written by an Israeli guy, and had a better
(by far) bidi support than any alternative I knew.
Yesterday, I discovered that I work with the guy who wrote it in the
same room. He told me that Qtext still exists, it is no longer a
freeware (it belongs to his kibutz) and that it still has the best bidi
support (they have only a window$ version). He also told me that the
developement of Qtext has stopped, since people seem to prefer M$ word
(apparently for the same obscure reasons they prefer other M$
software :). Anyway, he told me that they might be willing to sell the
source. Since they ceased developing it, I guess the price won't be very
high, and if it is possible to port it to linux, this might be the best
bidi word processor we have (it also supports Arabic and nikud).
My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it?
Moshe
--
Moshe Kaminsky
(Home) 08-9471073
=
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the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
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RE: Qtext
do you think trhat porting QText to Linux is really feasible and worth the effort? i agree that the bidi support there was excellent, and i used to work with qtext for years, but qt's bidi support has become pretty mature, and i'm not sure if it's worth the effort of porting MFC or whatever windows code to linux, or if that won't mean rewriting the whole thing from scratch, practically. btw, the name, at least, is already linux-ready: it QText sounds perfect for a QT app :) Dvir Volk Editor in Chief Nana by NetVision _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Tel: 03-5652585 | Fax:03-6241952 | http://www.netvision.net.il http://www.nana.co.il NetVision LTD. Omega Center, Matam Haifa 31905 -Original Message- From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Qtext On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a 'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Too many journalists think that C4I really stands for Inteligence, Communication, Control, Computers and Consiparcy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Hi,
At least up till some stage, this was a dos thing, so probably at least
*that* can be ported. Even the latest version is a 16-bit application
(though it does run on the newer windows versions) - I don't know
exactly what this means, but I guess this might mean that the windows
specific components are quite mild. The guy who wrote this has never
worked on linux (or unix), but I'll ask him what he thinks.
I'm sure that there will be some work in porting it, but I think this
can be done, and I think it's a lesser problem than getting the sources.
* Jonathan Ben Avraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:38]:
Hi Moshe,
The source code was probably not written in a way that can be ported -
e.g. the display aspect is probably not isolated by a portability layer
but probably uses direct calles to MFC, OWL or some other proprietary
widget library that does not lend itself to portability. This would make
the source code worthless.
Regards,
- yba
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
Hi,
When I was a kid, I used a word processor called Qtext on my dos
machine. It was a freeware written by an Israeli guy, and had a better
(by far) bidi support than any alternative I knew.
Yesterday, I discovered that I work with the guy who wrote it in the
same room. He told me that Qtext still exists, it is no longer a
freeware (it belongs to his kibutz) and that it still has the best bidi
support (they have only a window$ version). He also told me that the
developement of Qtext has stopped, since people seem to prefer M$ word
(apparently for the same obscure reasons they prefer other M$
software :). Anyway, he told me that they might be willing to sell the
source. Since they ceased developing it, I guess the price won't be very
high, and if it is possible to port it to linux, this might be the best
bidi word processor we have (it also supports Arabic and nikud).
My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it?
Moshe
--
Moshe Kaminsky
(Home) 08-9471073
=
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Re: Qtext
* Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:40]: On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a 'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) Well, when I asked him, he said `we can talk'. Basically, I think it's a matter of negotiation, and to negotiate we need someone who at least might *possibly* buy the sources (definitely not me...). Moshe Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Too many journalists think that C4I really stands for Inteligence, Communication, Control, Computers and Consiparcy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Hi, About feasible, I don't really know, since I didn't see the code. I will ask (maybe someone else in the development team there _is_ familiar with linux). As for worth the effort, I find hebrew support in the existing processors quite unsatisfactory. In fact, last time I checked (KDE 3.0.2 and koffice about two months ago, and openoffice with some hebrew patch), it was even worse than M$ word, which is a nightmare by itself. Perhaps I missed something or maybe things have drastically improved since then, but otherwise I believe QText would be a big improvement. I agree it isn't worth rewriting the whole thing, but maybe it can be ported with some minor changes. Moshe PS is it just me, or does everyone get all the recent mails twice? * Dvir Volk [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:56]: do you think trhat porting QText to Linux is really feasible and worth the effort? i agree that the bidi support there was excellent, and i used to work with qtext for years, but qt's bidi support has become pretty mature, and i'm not sure if it's worth the effort of porting MFC or whatever windows code to linux, or if that won't mean rewriting the whole thing from scratch, practically. btw, the name, at least, is already linux-ready: it QText sounds perfect for a QT app :) Dvir Volk Editor in Chief Nana by NetVision _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Tel: 03-5652585 | Fax:03-6241952 | http://www.netvision.net.il http://www.nana.co.il NetVision LTD. Omega Center, Matam Haifa 31905 -Original Message- From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Qtext On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a 'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Too many journalists think that C4I really stands for Inteligence, Communication, Control, Computers and Consiparcy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
* Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:40]:
On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it?
Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a
'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-)
Well, when I asked him, he said `we can talk'. Basically, I think it's a
matter of negotiation, and to negotiate we need someone who at least
might *possibly* buy the sources (definitely not me...).
Moshe
You better do a code review with someone who understands porting issues
before you even think about prices.
- yba
Gilad.
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Re: Qtext
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If you like, and if you think this is ok, I think I can reresent both the body who may eventually shell out the money, and understand how much it is WORTH for the community. Before we start, however, is there anyone here who will vulenteer to do the actual porting work? If noone steps forward right now, there is no point in shelling out the money. ~Shachar Moshe Kaminsky wrote: |* Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:40]: | |On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: | |My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? | |Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a |'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) | | |Well, when I asked him, he said `we can talk'. Basically, I think it's a |matter of negotiation, and to negotiate we need someone who at least |might *possibly* buy the sources (definitely not me...). | |Moshe | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE9kC7Zg8ByFc29vOIRAuA1AJ4/ZK+yawbORgC8E07P66JYY1i+9wCgmAiS dqoxLmr+IT/UijDz+wGQ0NQ= =gi+F -END PGP SIGNATURE- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
If you like, and if you think this is ok, I think I can reresent both
the body who may eventually shell out the money, and understand how much
it is WORTH for the community.
Before we start, however, is there anyone here who will vulenteer to do
the actual porting work? If noone steps forward right now, there is no
point in shelling out the money.
~Shachar
That might depend on how much work the porting would take. Easier to get
volunteers for an easy port, hard to get volunteers for a messy port.
- yba
Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
|* Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:40]:
|
|On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote:
|
|My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it?
|
|Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a
|'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-)
|
|
|Well, when I asked him, he said `we can talk'. Basically, I think it's a
|matter of negotiation, and to negotiate we need someone who at least
|might *possibly* buy the sources (definitely not me...).
|
|Moshe
|
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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=gi+F
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Re: Qtext
On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:59:15AM +0300, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: * Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:40]: On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a 'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) Well, when I asked him, he said `we can talk'. Basically, I think it's a matter of negotiation, and to negotiate we need someone who at least might *possibly* buy the sources (definitely not me...). Does anyone still buy it? Does the Kibbutz still makes money of it? If not, isn't there a chance they will agree to give it away? The latest version seems to be from 1998. I believe they sold very few licenses since, say, 2000. People rarely buy 4 years old software, even without getting addicted to microsoft. About portability: The demo (you can (could?) download from www.qtext.com) works quite well with recent versions of wine. This might (or might not, I am not an expert) mean porting to libwine might be much easier, even though less portable (e.g. to other Unices), than to QT. I personally think that an existing program, that took, I guess, tens of man-years to develop, and will take maybe a few man-months to port, is worth having. I do not think anyone should start _now_ a new project, given openoffice, koffice and abiword already exist. But QText already exists, and I know some people that really liked some features of it (not me personally - I almost never use any wordprocessor, and prefer lyx when I have to). Another thing it might be useful for is people that still have qtext files. I know (from experience) that some files are very hard to move to word (or text, html, anything), especially using a lot of nikud. Last thing: a google search for HTML Page - Created by QText (with the quotes) has 3320 results. This means it was still used recently (also after the export to html feature was added). Moshe Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Too many journalists think that C4I really stands for Inteligence, Communication, Control, Computers and Consiparcy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Hi, Of course, this is an important question. I just thought that the first question is whether we have any chance of getting the source. Since you say that someone might possibly fund it, I'll try to dig some more details from the guy when I meet him (on Thursday), both about the price and the feasibility of porting. I guess a relevant bit of information here is that this program is written in Delphi, which is some variant of Pascal. For myself, I can say that if porting will turn out to be feasible, I'll be willing to take some part in it. My involvment will be limited, however, by the fact that I have no knowledge of any of the involved issues (I have some vague recollection of Pascal - another thing I did as a kid :), and also since the time I can spend on it is limited. Moshe PS You are most welcome to forward this to whoever you think appropriate. * Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 12:19]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If you like, and if you think this is ok, I think I can reresent both the body who may eventually shell out the money, and understand how much it is WORTH for the community. Before we start, however, is there anyone here who will vulenteer to do the actual porting work? If noone steps forward right now, there is no point in shelling out the money. ~Shachar Moshe Kaminsky wrote: |* Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:40]: | |On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: | |My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? | |Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a |'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) | | |Well, when I asked him, he said `we can talk'. Basically, I think it's a |matter of negotiation, and to negotiate we need someone who at least |might *possibly* buy the sources (definitely not me...). | |Moshe | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE9kC7Zg8ByFc29vOIRAuA1AJ4/ZK+yawbORgC8E07P66JYY1i+9wCgmAiS dqoxLmr+IT/UijDz+wGQ0NQ= =gi+F -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Linux, cause i reboot less often than windows users reinstall... -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:50:07PM +0300, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: I guess a relevant bit of information here is that this program is written in Delphi, which is some variant of Pascal. In this case I guess porting is quite a big project. Unless you use Borland's lovely Kylix (Delphi's spin into Linux), which probably will speed things ai lot. However - this tool is *not free*. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: Hi, Of course, this is an important question. I just thought that the first question is whether we have any chance of getting the source. Since you say that someone might possibly fund it, I'll try to dig some more details from the guy when I meet him (on Thursday), both about the price and the feasibility of porting. I guess a relevant bit of information here is that this program is written in Delphi, which is some variant of Pascal. As far as I can recall, Delphi was very similar in concept to visual C++ except that it was based on Pascal instead of C. Sort of MFC-like Does the Windows version have its own Hebrew support or does it use Windows Hebrew support? For myself, I can say that if porting will turn out to be feasible, I'll be willing to take some part in it. My involvment will be limited, however, by the fact that I have no knowledge of any of the involved issues (I have some vague recollection of Pascal - another thing I did as a kid :), and also since the time I can spend on it is limited. Moshe PS You are most welcome to forward this to whoever you think appropriate. -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
OK, if you say that this thing is Delphi like I suspected, then I'll do the porting to Kylix. Bring it on :) Oleg. - Original Message - From: Moshe Kaminsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Qtext Hi, Of course, this is an important question. I just thought that the first question is whether we have any chance of getting the source. Since you say that someone might possibly fund it, I'll try to dig some more details from the guy when I meet him (on Thursday), both about the price and the feasibility of porting. I guess a relevant bit of information here is that this program is written in Delphi, which is some variant of Pascal. For myself, I can say that if porting will turn out to be feasible, I'll be willing to take some part in it. My involvment will be limited, however, by the fact that I have no knowledge of any of the involved issues (I have some vague recollection of Pascal - another thing I did as a kid :), and also since the time I can spend on it is limited. Moshe PS You are most welcome to forward this to whoever you think appropriate. * Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 12:19]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If you like, and if you think this is ok, I think I can reresent both the body who may eventually shell out the money, and understand how much it is WORTH for the community. Before we start, however, is there anyone here who will vulenteer to do the actual porting work? If noone steps forward right now, there is no point in shelling out the money. ~Shachar Moshe Kaminsky wrote: |* Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020924 11:40]: | |On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 11:19, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: | |My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? | |Get us a number and we'll see how reasonable it is. Maybe we can have a |'Free Qtext!' funraiser or something... :-) | | |Well, when I asked him, he said `we can talk'. Basically, I think it's a |matter of negotiation, and to negotiate we need someone who at least |might *possibly* buy the sources (definitely not me...). | |Moshe | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE9kC7Zg8ByFc29vOIRAuA1AJ4/ZK+yawbORgC8E07P66JYY1i+9wCgmAiS dqoxLmr+IT/UijDz+wGQ0NQ= =gi+F -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Linux, cause i reboot less often than windows users reinstall... -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Kylix Open Edition is free. Check Borland site. Oleg. - Original Message - From: Dan Kenigsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Qtext On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:50:07PM +0300, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: I guess a relevant bit of information here is that this program is written in Delphi, which is some variant of Pascal. In this case I guess porting is quite a big project. Unless you use Borland's lovely Kylix (Delphi's spin into Linux), which probably will speed things ai lot. However - this tool is *not free*. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Does the Windows version have its own Hebrew support or does it use Windows Hebrew support? Delphi starting from 5 has it's own bidi algorithms. It does rely on Windows hebrew but with a little tweaking it can do without. Oleg. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Moshe Kaminsky wrote: Hi, At least up till some stage, this was a dos thing, so probably at least *that* can be ported. Even the latest version is a 16-bit application (though it does run on the newer windows versions) - I don't know exactly what this means, but I guess this might mean that the windows specific components are quite mild. The guy who wrote this has never worked on linux (or unix), but I'll ask him what he thinks. I'm sure that there will be some work in porting it, but I think this can be done, and I think it's a lesser problem than getting the sources. As far as I can remember, QText for dos was written in Pascal, and the Windows version was written with Delphi. This should make it rather easy to port by using Kylix, since I don't think they used too many non-Kylix wrapped API calls in there, and even if they did use a few, it shouldn't be a problem to rewrite a few APIs. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: About portability: The demo (you can (could?) download from www.qtext.com) works quite well with recent versions of wine. This might (or might not, I am not an expert) mean porting to libwine might be much easier, even though less portable (e.g. to other Unices), than to QT. If this thing is Delphy, libwine is out of the question unless you can recompile Delphy itself. As for it working with Wine - does the BiDi also work? If so, it more or less automatically means that there is no reliance on Windows BiDi. Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 14:08, Shachar Shemesh wrote: As for it working with Wine - does the BiDi also work? If so, it more or less automatically means that there is no reliance on Windows BiDi. Qtext does not rely on Widnosw idi support - Qtext works in Hebrew even on non Bidi versions of Windows 95. Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Too many journalists think that C4I really stands for Inteligence, Communication, Control, Computers and Consiparcy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Oleg wrote: Does the Windows version have its own Hebrew support or does it use Windows Hebrew support? Delphi starting from 5 has it's own bidi algorithms. It does rely on Windows hebrew but with a little tweaking it can do without. QText uses its own bidi implementation. It should work also on non-bidi windows (wine...). Bidi support in delphi/kylix may be something to work around. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: About portability: The demo (you can (could?) download from www.qtext.com) works quite well with recent versions of wine. Not here. qtext has problems with fonts. I kept getting error messages about problems accessing (or opening, I'm not sure) font files, and I could not see any Hebrew in the document (IIRC I could also not get any Hebrew in the menus) -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 02:08:08PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: About portability: The demo (you can (could?) download from www.qtext.com) works quite well with recent versions of wine. This might (or might not, I am not an expert) mean porting to libwine might be much easier, even though less portable (e.g. to other Unices), than to QT. If this thing is Delphy, libwine is out of the question unless you can recompile Delphy itself. As for it working with Wine - does the BiDi also work? If so, it more or less automatically means that there is no reliance on Windows BiDi. I think it works. It does have some problems (I think it has problems with shift or something), but places hebrew and english correctly inside each other. This is only a trivial test, with wine version 20011226 (the one I have installed). I also think it was deliberate, not using windows bidi, to make it work on foreign versions of windows. Shachar Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 02:40:01PM +0300, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: About portability: The demo (you can (could?) download from www.qtext.com) works quite well with recent versions of wine. Not here. qtext has problems with fonts. I kept getting error messages about problems accessing (or opening, I'm not sure) font files, and I could not see any Hebrew in the document (IIRC I could also not get any Hebrew in the menus) On which wine version? It used to be so for years, and I still get tons of messages about fonts, but see this http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~didi/qtext-wine-01.jpg This is with wine 20011226. All older versions that I tried (every few months) didn't show hebrew unless I invested *a lot* of effort, I didn't try newer ones. I will now try, and post if it doesn't work. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
