Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B: (B (B On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 04:10:44PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (B (B For the (aspirant) multilinguals among us, I would say no. The ability (B to change input methods on the fly, halfway through filling in a form, (B is somewhat cruicial. (B (B (For this, xim seems to be mostly useless.) (B (B Not so, at least for Korean. But I guess it depends on what IME (B you're using... The Ami input editor allows you to switch back and (B forth with a single keystroke. (B (BOnly between English (or whatever direct keyboard input does for you) (Band Korean. But Ami cannot switch to Japanese of course. (B (B I don't know what language you're (B trying to learn, but I suspect the IME for that language works (B similarly. (B (BIf you use an XIM for Japanese, you can usually only switch (Bbetween Japanese and English, if you use an XIM for Chinese, (Byou can usually only switch between Chinese and English. (B (BThere are some exceptions (SCIM, uim), but most XIM servers can only (Bswitch between direct keyboard input and the one language they are (Bdesigned for. That's not good for multilingual use. (B (B-- (BMike FABIAN [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.suse.de/~mfabian $B?gL2ITB-$O;E;v$NE([EMAIL PROTECTED](B (B (B-- (BLinux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels (BArchive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Mutt and UTF-8 (was Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support)
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 04:17:48PM +0100, Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: Recent versions of Debian use ncursesw, but Red Hat 9 seems to use slang: Ok, now I've gone through all the trouble of getting the latest mutt sources from CVS (because bulding 1.5.6 against slang is broken), updating my patches to work with the CVS version (and submitting a bug report to hopefully get them included), copmiling and installing it, and I re-discovered what my problem is with slang. I make heavy use of colorization for visual queues in mutt. I also strongly prefer my terminals to be a particular shade of dark blue. Using mutt with Slang makes that impossible. So I also have to set an environment variable to give Slang default colors that work. But it has to paint every character cell, which is very gross over a remote link. Yucky. Derek pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mutt and UTF-8 (was Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support)
On Wed, 5 May 2004, Derek Martin wrote: On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 04:17:48PM +0100, Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: Recent versions of Debian use ncursesw, but Red Hat 9 seems to use slang: Ok, now I've gone through all the trouble of getting the latest mutt sources from CVS (because bulding 1.5.6 against slang is broken), updating my patches to work with the CVS version (and submitting a bug report to hopefully get them included), copmiling and installing it, and I re-discovered what my problem is with slang. I make heavy use of colorization for visual queues in mutt. I also strongly prefer my terminals to be a particular shade of dark blue. Using mutt with Slang makes that impossible. So I also have to set an environment variable to give Slang default colors that work. But it has to paint every character cell, which is very gross over a remote link. Redhat9 doesn't distribute ncursesw. Why not simply follow the advice and try that? -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 10:27:10PM +0900, Derek Martin wrote: ..[snip].. in Gaim. =8^) Now if only Mutt will work properly with UTF-8... Err... I'm reading these messages inside mutt, which in turn runs under a UTF-8 enabled xterm (uxterm), with the el_GR.UTF-8 locale. And let me tell you, it works great, and in fact it's been supporting UTF-8 for a long time now. Make sure that you have a fairly recent version of mutt, and that it's compiled against ncursesw, not plain ncurses or slang, and you should be set. The Debian unstable package is what I'm using, BTW. -- Vasilis Vasaitis A man is well or woe as he thinks himself so. -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
To be specific, I like te be able to switch back and forth between Vietnamese and Japanese. Right now, gtk+ input methods seem to be the best way to do that in a running app. Owen said that he mainly intended them to be wrappers for xim and ultimately iiimf. Not so, at least for Korean. But I guess it depends on what IME you're using... The Ami input editor allows you to switch back and forth with a single keystroke. I don't know what language you're trying to learn, but I suspect the IME for that language works similarly. -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 09:29:50PM +0300, Vasilis Vasaitis wrote: On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 10:27:10PM +0900, Derek Martin wrote: ..[snip].. in Gaim. =8^) Now if only Mutt will work properly with UTF-8... Err... I'm reading these messages inside mutt, which in turn runs under a UTF-8 enabled xterm (uxterm), with the el_GR.UTF-8 locale. And let me tell you, it works great, and in fact it's been supporting UTF-8 for a long time now. It seems to have problems with double-width asian characters. It works fine with European character sets... Make sure that you have a fairly recent version of mutt, and that it's compiled against ncursesw, not plain ncurses or slang, and you should be set. The Debian unstable package is what I'm using, BTW. Well, I'm running red hat 9, which AFAIK doesn't have ncursesw, and I don't want to be bothered to be mucking with critical libraries from source. Not because I can't, but because I can't be bothered... FWIW, Every other program I use with Korean works fine in xterm. Only Mutt blows up. So I think it's a bug in Mutt anyway... I'm only two development releases behind IIRC, and I did download the source for the latest a couple of weeks ago, but these days I'm too busy to be upgrading half the libraries and all the software on my system just so one trivial feature will work properly. Mutt works fine with ko_KR/EUC-KR, so I just use that. I can probably wait until the next time I need to upgrade my distribution to make the necessary changes. Derek pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: in Gaim. =8^) Now if only Mutt will work properly with UTF-8... Err... I'm reading these messages inside mutt, which in turn runs under a UTF-8 enabled xterm (uxterm), with the el_GR.UTF-8 locale. And let me tell you, it works great, and in fact it's been supporting UTF-8 for a long time now. It seems to have problems with double-width asian characters. It works fine with European character sets... Mutt is supposed to and has been known to work with double-width characters, provided it has an appropriate terminal library, such as ncursesw or a UTF-8 version of slang. Recent versions of Debian use ncursesw, but Red Hat 9 seems to use slang: $ cat /etc/redhat-release Red Hat Linux release 9 (Shrike) $ ldd /usr/bin/mutt libslang-utf8.so.1 = /usr/lib/libslang-utf8.so.1 (0x4002b000) ... Judging by the library name this is supposed to work, so can you describe a reproducible bug? Edmund -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 04:17:48PM +0100, Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: Judging by the library name this is supposed to work, so can you describe a reproducible bug? I don't use Red Hat's RPM for mutt, because it has a number of annoying problems and isn't configured the way I want it to be. It's also not shipped with my patches included... ;-) http://www.pizzashack.org/mutt So I build my own mutt -- but my build uses ncurses. I'll try rebuilding it against slang, but I seem to recall that this causes some other problem I'll give it a shot. Thanks! pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
Kaixo! On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 07:32:24PM +0200, Jan Willem Stumpel wrote: 1. Most GTK+ programs allow right-clicking in text boxes to change the input method, but Mozilla, unfortunately, does not. Try right-clicking on the URL input field. Input fields inside of html pages are indeed not right-clickable to select the input method -- Ki ça vos våye bén, Pablo Saratxaga http://chanae.walon.org/pablo/ PGP Key available, key ID: 0xD9B85466 [you can write me in Walloon, Spanish, French, English, Catalan or Esperanto] [min povas skribi en valona, esperanta, angla aux latinidaj lingvoj] pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
Pablo Saratxaga wrote: On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 07:32:24PM +0200, Jan Willem Stumpel wrote: 1. Most GTK+ programs allow right-clicking in text boxes to change the input method, but Mozilla, unfortunately, does not. Try right-clicking on the URL input field. Of course I tried that -- but it never gives me a choice of input methods. What version of Mozilla do you use? I have Mozilla 1.6, Debian package 1.6-5. Regards, Jan -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 07:32:24PM +0200, Jan Willem Stumpel wrote: Thanks very much, this clears up a lot. A few more questions: 1. Most GTK+ programs allow right-clicking in text boxes to change the input method, but Mozilla, unfortunately, does not. But it *is* affected by the GTK_IM_MODULE=xim environment variable, so it appears to be a GTK+ program all right. In fact, starting Mozilla (from the command line) with GTK_IM_MODULE=im-ja mozilla works, resulting in a Mozilla which accepts Japanese input -- without using kinput2! Now it would be extremely nice if this could also be done (somehow) dynamically, on the fly. GTK+ programs seem to be able to do this, so (I think) Mozilla should be able to do it also. Is there a way to achieve this? Mozilla twists and turns GTK+ to its whims, so the result is very different than usual GTK+ applications. AFAIK, there's no equivalent method to switch input method; if it's important for you, you could try filing a bug report in their bugzilla, asking for the Input Methods submenu to be added to the input box context menu. 2. In programs which *do* allow right-clicking for input method selection, the default input method is (apparently) less useful than the xim input method, because of the less-than-perfect Compose implementation in default. Is there a way to make xim the default? Anyway, what exactly is the default in the input methods menu? Where is it defined? It's already been stated that you can specify GTK_IM_MODULE=xim in your environment, which makes all applications use that by default. Isn't that good enough for you? -- Vasilis Vasaitis A man is well or woe as he thinks himself so. -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
For the (aspirant) multilinguals among us, I would say no. The ability to change input methods on the fly, halfway through filling in a form, is somewhat cruicial. (For this, xim seems to be mostly useless.) It's already been stated that you can specify GTK_IM_MODULE=xim in your environment, which makes all applications use that by default. Isn't that good enough for you? -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 04:10:44PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the (aspirant) multilinguals among us, I would say no. The ability to change input methods on the fly, halfway through filling in a form, is somewhat cruicial. (For this, xim seems to be mostly useless.) Not so, at least for Korean. But I guess it depends on what IME you're using... The Ami input editor allows you to switch back and forth with a single keystroke. I don't know what language you're trying to learn, but I suspect the IME for that language works similarly. Derek pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 05:10:42PM +0300, Vasilis Vasaitis wrote: Programs that use the GTK+ library use GTK+'s own composition mechanism by default, instead of the one supplied by X. Do you know why that is? You can switch that temporarily for a text box, by right clicking on it and selecting Input Methods - X Input Method. Or, you can switch it permanently for all applications, by setting GTM_IM_MODULE=xim among your environment variables. Thanks for posting that... I'd been trying to figure out a way to do that for some time. I never could find anything useful about it though. Is there some place where it's documented, should I want to refer to or quote it in the future? Derek pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: JOE editor has just added UTF-8 support
Vasilis Vasaitis wrote: Programs that use the GTK+ library use GTK+'s own composition mechanism by default, instead of the one supplied by X. Thanks very much.. but why? Why two different methods? You can switch that temporarily for a text box, by right clicking on it and selecting Input Methods - X Input Method. Or, you can switch it permanently for all applications, by setting GTM_IM_MODULE=xim among your environment variables. Yes, this works (of course you meant GTK_IM_MODULE, not GTM_IM_MODULE !) I can input in Mozilla now! Well, I don't need it on a daily basis, but it is nice that it's there if I want it.. Regards, Jan -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
