[IFWP] Re: [ga] History (IFWP.ORG)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:16:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Marc Schneiders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: William X Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ga] History (IFWP.ORG) On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, at 17:48 [=GMT-0700], William X Walsh wrote: Friday, Friday, September 07, 2001, 5:04:12 PM, Marc Schneiders wrote: For those who are into internet history: ifwp.org is in the air again. The mailing list archive can be accessed via http://list.ifwp.org/ Richard Sexton has kept it for us. And still serves it. May it serve the future. God no, may it fade into oblivion. With the anarchist way that Sexton runs his lists, it is pretty much as useless as the NSI domain policy was for anything substantive. There is good anarchy. I see nothing in the archives to indicate that it is serving any purpose lately, The domain was out of the org-tld zone for a year or so. Hope that explains it for you. Now it is alive again. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] Reviving this list
Hi Marc, Good job snagging IFWP.org. It needs to be preserved as part of the historical record. Is there any way to get the old web pages back on line? Either that, or a new summary of the IFWP would be great -- something that newcomers could read and immediately understand how the IFWP was hijacked to form ICANN. FWIW, I got a verbal summary online at: http://www.iperdome.com/images/iperdome1.ra Jay. At 9/7/01 05:10 PM, Marc Schneiders wrote: There are plans, now the domain IFWP.ORG is working again, to revive the ifwp.org mailing list. More to follow soon. The idea is to let it be a replacement for the [EMAIL PROTECTED] (earlier @internic.net) list, that, eh, mmm, let's say, died. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ Jay Fenello, Internet Coaching http://www.Fenello.com ... 678-585-9765 http://www.YourWebPartner.com ... Web Support http://www.AligningWithPurpose.com ... for a Better World --- A new civilization is emerging in our lives, and blind men everywhere are trying to suppress it. -- Alvin Toffler
[IFWP] BOUNCE list@ifwp.org: Non-member submission from [William X Walsh william@userfriendly.com]
Hannibal Lecter was right: eat the rude. Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 03:23:04 -0700 From: William X Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: William X Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marc Schneiders [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re[2]: [ga] History (IFWP.ORG) In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturday, Saturday, September 08, 2001, 3:16:52 AM, Marc Schneiders wrote: God no, may it fade into oblivion. With the anarchist way that Sexton runs his lists, it is pretty much as useless as the NSI domain policy was for anything substantive. There is good anarchy. Well, in that case it seems well suited to those who advocate the anarchy namespace (lack of) management model. I see nothing in the archives to indicate that it is serving any purpose lately, The domain was out of the org-tld zone for a year or so. Hope that explains it for you. Now it is alive again. It's been back for quite a while. Months. -- Best regards, William X Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Userfriendly.com Domains The most advanced domain lookup tool on the net DNS Services from $1.65/mo -- But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig. -- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001). [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] Reviving this list
Ok, here's a trivia question for the DNS community. Who remembers the meaning of the acronym GIAW?* Notes about it are still online at http://www.domainhandbook.com/giaw.html Other links to IFWP related documents are at http://www.domainhandbook.com/ifwp.html although I confess I haven't checked these in several years. I have archived many of the documents off line but don't feel compelled to find and post them I think the IFWP acronym needs a new updated name since we are three years beyond the International Forum on the White Paper. Ideas? *Global Incorporation Alliance Workshop, with thanks to Tony Rutkowski --Ellen Rony P.S. Subscriber info for the list, please. I want to change my email address. Thanks. Hi Marc, Good job snagging IFWP.org. It needs to be preserved as part of the historical record. Is there any way to get the old web pages back on line? Either that, or a new summary of the IFWP would be great -- something that newcomers could read and immediately understand how the IFWP was hijacked to form ICANN. FWIW, I got a verbal summary online at: http://www.iperdome.com/images/iperdome1.ra Jay. At 9/7/01 05:10 PM, Marc Schneiders wrote: There are plans, now the domain IFWP.ORG is working again, to revive the ifwp.org mailing list. More to follow soon. The idea is to let it be a replacement for the [EMAIL PROTECTED] (earlier @internic.net) list, that, eh, mmm, let's say, died. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ Jay Fenello, Internet Coaching http://www.Fenello.com ... 678-585-9765 http://www.YourWebPartner.com ... Web Support http://www.AligningWithPurpose.com ... for a Better World --- A new civilization is emerging in our lives, and blind men every-where are trying to suppress it. -- Alvin Toffler ^ Ellen Rony )/_http://www.domainhandbook.com Co-author \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Domain Name Handbook /) ) +1 415.435.5010 ---/' The more people I meet, the more I like my cockatiel.
[IFWP] alg@opengovt.open.org ?
Does anybody recognize this address? It's bouncing and there is nobody subscribed under this address; it's the target of an alias and before I go to the trouble of huntnig them down I thought I'd ask if anybody recognized it. -- But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig. -- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001). [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
Wrongaroonie, Einar -- The goal is a decentralized network of independent democracies, just as we need individuals practicing reponsible self rule from a common global sense of our deep interactivity. That how genuine freedom and democracy can work best. Isn't it time for us humans to outgrow our addiction to despots? Or do we still fear adulthood? -- ken Ken Freed, Publisher Media Visions Journal http://www.media-visions.com Deep literacy makes global sense. And then we can undertake to create a global constitution for the Global Economy, and then take on any other edge controlled environments which also surely\ need to have a constitution, to apply Centralized Democratic Government. Enjoy your trip;-)... At 12:47 -0600 07/09/01, Ken Freed wrote: Seems to me any effort to work within ICANN to acheive network democracy is innately an act of self-deception, continuing the public lie that ICANN is a legitimate government. It isn't. There has never been a public vote to privatise our public Internet. There has never been a public vote to grant any governance power to ICANN. The emperor is clothed in a fabric of veiled delusions. I still advocate a global Internet constitution, so we have a governmewnt of laws not committees. Ken Freed Media Visions Journal http://www.media-visions.com Deep literacy makes global sense (fixed) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 08:21:30 -0500 From: ooblick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Why wake up? (Re: [IFWP] Is this list up? (Test, ignore, sorry)) To: Dan Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2001 12:18:55.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE94E8F0:01C13604] Hear hear. So i am going on vacation. The fix was in from the get go and all we were was pawns to lend legitimacy to their fabricated claims of consensus. See you next week. I'm going diving. Original Message --- From: Dan Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: Why wake up? (Re: [IFWP] Is this list up? (Test, ignore, sorry)) Well to counter your argument I would say that I went to IFWP meetings all over the globe, went to an ICANN meeting or two. I worked on the at-large issue in good faith in the first Membership Advisory Committee. I believe I was very awake during the entire process, with gusts to diligent. What did all that work get? not much I think. I am not funded to work on lost causes. Those that go to Montevideo are funded to act and more than a couple of them will have a pre-set agenda. Unless you want to fund everyone on this list to show up and make a presence felt, I think sleeping is the more economical course. Marc Schneiders wrote: Why we should wake up fast? Quite a few people are on their way to Montevideo right now. A couple of them may try to determine a lot of things on their own there without real input from those affected. The ALSC preliminary report leaves not much hope for a change to the better. Now, if it would be a good, thorough, well argued report, in whi -- But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig. -- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001). [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
Wrongaroonie, Einar -- The goal is a decentralized network of independent democracies, just as we need individuals practicing reponsible self rule from a common global sense of our deep interactivity. That how genuine freedom and democracy can work best. Isn't it time for us humans to outgrow our addiction to despots? Or do we still fear adulthood? -- ken Ken Freed, Publisher Media Visions Journal http://www.media-visions.com Deep literacy makes global sense. ken I am sure you mean well but while you are pursuing vour idyllic VISION the ICANNite mafia is out there building the cage that will render our wishes irrelevant.. after 3 years ICANN's iron boot is only getting more and more brazen. they will laugh at anything we do until someone either invests in taking them out by lawsuit or until someone replaces DNS and makes them irrelevant. these debates about a better governance mechanism are tiresome because they do not deflect ICANN one nano meter from the path it is on. here is an essay co authored by myself and dave hughes yesterday...send it where you wish The Real ICANN, by Gordon Cook and Dave Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Australian Smoking Gun With .com .org .net and all the other GTLDs under its firm control, the Real ICANN is now snuffing out independent country code domains and putting them under the same contractual assurances that GTLDs are. This has just begun with the Australian country code domain that has been taken away from Robert Elz, an Australian university professor who had done the task for free for more than 10 years. It has been taken without cause, without hearing, and without due process. ICANN has established a ccTLD Sponsorship Agreement. According to Michael Froomkins analysis see the url below the door is wide open for any group of people in any nation to form an organization to run that country's country code domain name. Such a group can then seek the government's blessing and, by telling ICANN, it will subscribe to the agreement, it has likely reason to believe that ICANN will certify it if the government agrees. With this pledge of fealty from the newly formed ICANN country code compliant entity, ICANN can then take the domain name away from the current administrator and give it to the new entity that wants to run it on behalf of ICANN. The government then is presented with the opportunity to agree to the ICANN action, which the Australian government has done. The result is collusion between the ICANN and the government that permits ICANN to effectively internationalize a formal national resource and by saying that it is just following ICANN's request, execute an end run around any existing due process constraints. With the .us country code domain the Real ICANN has accomplished that same goal through Karen Rose who has been positioned in NTIA by ICANN's corporate founders to give US government blessing to do what the extra legal forces behind ICANN want. Karen has executed a bid for an administrator of the US country code domain. You can bet the winner will agree to play by the ICANN rules of the ccTLD Sponsorship Agreement. From every thing that we can tell by talking to numerous sources Karen effectively has become an unsupervised agent operating largely on behalf of the entities she is supposed to regulate. Her 'charges' tell her what they want and generally they get it. The agreement of the US government to the actions of ICANN has been reality for three full years. Bottom line is that in this instance ICANN, in a series of lawless actions, is about gain the ability to dictate the terms under which both American citizens and citizens of other countries can hang out a cyberspace address shingle for a web site. The REAL ICANN versus the Public ICANN The public ICANN is being sold as a democratic organization, founded on the basis of California non profit law, respectful of it broad consensus of support by Internet users. This public ICANN is a deception that is presented to distract attention from the real ICANN. The Real ICANN is acting on its own authority without the backing of national law or international treat to take control of the Internet's naming system and thereby gain a strangle hold over the ability of individual people and small businesses to work, live and express themselves in cyberspace. Having no legal authority to take away the property rights inherent in the Australian country code domain it has nevertheless just done so. How could this happen? It has happened as the result of three years of gradual accretion of power by its staff -- Stuart Lynn as President, Vint Cerf Chairman of the Board, Andrew Mclaughlin as chief policy officer and by counsel Joe Sims and Louis Touton and ex president Michael Roberts as on going consultant. ICANN's Board is there as window dressing and is informed by staff after-the-fact of decisions that are expected to be rubber stamped. Let us step back and
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
I agree with Gordon on this; we don't need gevernance. We didn't have any to build the network and it's generally harder to build somehing than run it. -- But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig. -- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001). [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
Hi Everyone,
For an excellent summary of where we are
heading, check out the online book:
http://www.winwinworld.net/book/
I've embraced many of the concept there,
as can be seen on:
http://www.fenello.com
http://www.aligningwithpurpose.com
FYI FWIW,
Jay.
At 9/8/01 02:27 PM, Ken Freed wrote:
Wrongaroonie, Einar --
The goal is a decentralized network of independent democracies,
just as we need individuals practicing reponsible self rule from a
common global sense of our deep interactivity. That how genuine
freedom and democracy can work best. Isn't it time for us humans
to outgrow our addiction to despots? Or do we still fear adulthood?
-- ken
Ken Freed, Publisher
Media Visions Journal
http://www.media-visions.com
Deep literacy makes global sense.
And then we can undertake to create a global constitution for the
Global Economy, and then take on any other edge controlled
environments which also surely\ need to have a constitution, to apply
Centralized Democratic Government.
Enjoy your trip;-)...
At 12:47 -0600 07/09/01, Ken Freed wrote:
Seems to me any effort to work within ICANN
to acheive network democracy is innately an
act of self-deception, continuing the public lie
that ICANN is a legitimate government. It isn't.
There has never been a public vote to privatise
our public Internet. There has never been a public
vote to grant any governance power to ICANN. The
emperor is clothed in a fabric of veiled delusions.
I still advocate a global Internet constitution, so we
have a governmewnt of laws not committees.
Ken Freed
Media Visions Journal
http://www.media-visions.com
Deep literacy makes global sense
(fixed)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 08:21:30 -0500
From: ooblick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re: Why wake up? (Re: [IFWP] Is this list up? (Test,
ignore,
sorry))
To: Dan Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2001 12:18:55.0359 (UTC)
FILETIME=[EE94E8F0:01C13604]
Hear hear. So i am going on vacation. The fix was in from the get go
and all we were was pawns to lend legitimacy to their fabricated claims
of consensus.
See you next week. I'm going diving.
Original Message ---
From: Dan Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: Why wake up? (Re: [IFWP] Is this list up? (Test, ignore,
sorry))
Well to counter your argument I would say that I went to IFWP meetings
all over
the globe, went to an ICANN meeting or two. I worked on the at-large
issue in
good faith in the first Membership Advisory Committee. I believe
I was
very awake
during the entire process, with gusts to diligent. What did all that
work get?
not much I think. I am not funded to work on lost causes.
Those that go to
Montevideo are funded to act and more than a couple of them will
have a
pre-set
agenda. Unless you want to fund everyone on this list to show up
and make a
presence felt, I think sleeping is the more economical course.
Marc Schneiders wrote:
Why we should wake up fast? Quite a few people are on their way to
Montevideo right now. A couple of them may try to determine a
lot of
things on their own there without real input from those
affected. The
ALSC preliminary report leaves not much hope for a change to the
better. Now, if it would be a good, thorough, well argued report, in
whi
--
But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on
it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig.
-- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist.
LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001).
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+++
Jay Fenello, Internet Coaching
http://www.Fenello.com ... 678-585-9765
http://www.YourWebPartner.com ... Web Support
http://www.AligningWithPurpose.com ... for a Better World
---
A new civilization is emerging in our lives, and blind men
everywhere are trying to suppress it. -- Alvin Toffler
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
Glad to see my comments are stimulating good discourse!
That's half the battle, the other half is finding viable actions.
Someone offer a realistic way to stop ICANN, and I'll listen,
and do what I can to help. I remain a practical idealist.
E.g., What about the idea of a lawsuit challenging
ICANN's legitimacy as a vehicle of privatisation?
I agree that talk is cheap, what can we DO?
-- ken
P.S. Network democracy could help build politcal democracy.
Without a guiding vision, one wanders about blind lost.
Hi Everyone,
For an excellent summary of where we are
heading, check out the online book:
http://www.winwinworld.net/book/
I've embraced many of the concept there,
as can be seen on:
http://www.fenello.com
http://www.aligningwithpurpose.com
FYI FWIW,
Jay.
At 9/8/01 02:27 PM, Ken Freed wrote:
Wrongaroonie, Einar --
The goal is a decentralized network of independent democracies,
just as we need individuals practicing reponsible self rule from a
common global sense of our deep interactivity. That how genuine
freedom and democracy can work best. Isn't it time for us humans
to outgrow our addiction to despots? Or do we still fear adulthood?
-- ken
Ken Freed, Publisher
Media Visions Journal
http://www.media-visions.com
Deep literacy makes global sense.
And then we can undertake to create a global constitution for the
Global Economy, and then take on any other edge controlled
environments which also surely\ need to have a constitution, to apply
Centralized Democratic Government.
Enjoy your trip;-)...
At 12:47 -0600 07/09/01, Ken Freed wrote:
Seems to me any effort to work within ICANN
to acheive network democracy is innately an
act of self-deception, continuing the public lie
that ICANN is a legitimate government. It isn't.
There has never been a public vote to privatise
our public Internet. There has never been a public
vote to grant any governance power to ICANN. The
emperor is clothed in a fabric of veiled delusions.
I still advocate a global Internet constitution, so we
have a governmewnt of laws not committees.
Ken Freed
Media Visions Journal
http://www.media-visions.com
Deep literacy makes global sense
(fixed)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 08:21:30 -0500
From: ooblick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re: Why wake up? (Re: [IFWP] Is this list up? (Test,
ignore,
sorry))
To: Dan Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2001 12:18:55.0359 (UTC)
FILETIME=[EE94E8F0:01C13604]
Hear hear. So i am going on vacation. The fix was in from the get go
and all we were was pawns to lend legitimacy to their fabricated
claims
of consensus.
See you next week. I'm going diving.
Original Message ---
From: Dan Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: Why wake up? (Re: [IFWP] Is this list up? (Test, ignore,
sorry))
Well to counter your argument I would say that I went to IFWP
meetings
all over
the globe, went to an ICANN meeting or two. I worked on the at-large
issue in
good faith in the first Membership Advisory Committee. I believe
I was
very awake
during the entire process, with gusts to diligent. What did all that
work get?
not much I think. I am not funded to work on lost causes.
Those that go to
Montevideo are funded to act and more than a couple of them will
have a
pre-set
agenda. Unless you want to fund everyone on this list to show up
and make a
presence felt, I think sleeping is the more economical course.
Marc Schneiders wrote:
Why we should wake up fast? Quite a few people are on their way to
Montevideo right now. A couple of them may try to determine a
lot of
things on their own there without real input from those
affected. The
ALSC preliminary report leaves not much hope for a change to the
better. Now, if it would be a good, thorough, well argued
report, in
whi
--
But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on
it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig.
-- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist.
LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001).
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+++
Jay Fenello, Internet Coaching
http://www.Fenello.com ... 678-585-9765
http://www.YourWebPartner.com ... Web Support
http://www.AligningWithPurpose.com ... for a Better World
---
A new civilization is emerging in our lives, and blind men
every-where are trying to suppress it. -- Alvin Toffler
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
Hiya, Stef. How's tricks? You wrote: Einar Stefferud wrote: And then we can undertake to create a global constitution for the Global Economy They've beaten us to it. It's called the WTO. and then take on any other edge controlled environments which also surely need to have a constitution, to apply Centralized Democratic Government. You mean like: Say America's a democracy or I'll bust your head!? M.S.
Re: [IFWP] Reviving this list
Marc Schneiders wrote: There are plans, now the domain IFWP.ORG is working again, to revive the ifwp.org mailing list. Fine with me, but how about keeping Crocker and Crispin off it this time? M.S.
