[WSG] Background Image Bullets
Hi all, I have noticed a problem with a large local file for quite some time without any online presence to get much in the line of answers. I noticed the other day that the listmatic site, http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/ shows the same effect. That site shows a background image bullet problem that affects files with many list bullets formed using the background image method. I see this result running Mozilla 1.7 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616) on Win XP (Home) with SP2. It first shows up when I scroll down to the item Anton Andreasson's Big Boxes under the heading Experimental lists--the image is doubled up vertically as if the no repeat failed for that item. If I then scroll the entry up off the screen at the top and back down into view, or move another window over it then off again, or just hit Reload, the image is restored to its proper rendering. I get a similar result scrolling up from down on the page with some variation in which items are affected with varying distances scrolled down and back up--commonly this is the Using images for bullets entry. I asked Russ about this and his answer was I have never noticed this behaviour but it is fascinating. It sounds like a rendering bug in Mozilla so probably very little that could be done about it. You could look through their bug reports to see if it is mentioned. Feel free to post to the WSG to see if others have experienced this issue. Would be interesting to see if others have experienced it. I did have a brief look at the bug reports back when I first noticed the effect but didn't see anything that sounded like what I was seeing-- it's very likely I just don't know the correct wording and perhaps it's been there all along. Does anyone recognize this? Have a cure for it? -- Regards, Gene Falck [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Yahoo Javascript Library - Word of Warning
Sorry for the slightly off topic post but I know a couple of people from the yahoo library read this mailing list and it is tangentially related to web standards as it brings up scary dialog boxes to the user. We've been using the yahoo libraries throughout our website but noticed that when they're used on a particular secure (https) page of the website we were getting a page warning (do you want to load non secure elements on this page). A bit of packet sniffing later it turns out that through out the yahoo libraries they are making calls to images hosted externally. It seems the libraries are trying to detect https connections but in this case are failing, causing the warning. They could be doing this to cache images between sites using the YUI libraries, however if you're the paranoid type then they could be using it to track usage / visitors to your site. Either way it's quite interesting and if you are trying to track down the elusive secure and non-secure warning message then this could be it. I'll forward that to the YUI team. It is an implementation issue though. If you don't want to use the images in the YUI, you can override them in each of the widgets. The images in use in the example pages and the presets for panel for example (the close button) are put on akamai, to make sure they get to you as fast as possible. This problem appears with any asset not inside the same https domain, not the YUI fault. cheers Chris -- Chris Heilmann Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] The usability of a frame-style layout
-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Friday, 29 September 2006 2:40 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] The usability of a frame-style layout On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:15:47 +1000, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: [...] However, with css we now have the ability to imitate frames in an accessible and search-engine friendly way for browsers that support it. So the question comes back to usability (and maybe aesthetics): wouldn't it be more user-friendly to always make the primary navigation available to users, no matter what part of the page they are looking at? Interesting concept Andreas. Your idea has already been realized to a degree in Opera. Opera has a navigation bar that users can turn on or off. It sits across the top of a page, and is populated by LINK elements in the HEAD section of a document. Do you happen to know any sites that work with this concept? So any sites that have LINK elements in the HEAD section that would show up in Opera? You may also be interested in PPK's revamped site. See for example the Blogs page, and activate the show site navigation link on the left. Is this what you had in mind? - Exactly. Well, I think there must be a better way to design it, so it doesn't overlap important content, but in the long run this is what I was thinking about. I guess I shouldn't have titled it frame-style - it took people off track with the discussion. But this is exactly the idea - why not provide navigation at all times to the user (in a standards compliant way of course)? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessability Reading Of WebPages Need Help
It is also good etiquette to make sure that you understand what the author meant, before you attack them, however nicely. In this case, I believe the intention was to point out a mis-written (bad) link, not as you assumed a (properly written) link to an unsuitable site. While the reason for the bad link was not explicitly stated, the alternative, correct link was. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Heilmann Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:44 PM Sorry if that sounded like chastising Christian, it wasn't meant to. Just a good mailing list etiquette reminder: If you attack something, provide proof why and give an alternative. -- Chris Heilmann *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessability Reading Of WebPages Need Help
On 9/29/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is also good etiquette to make sure that you understand what the author meant, before you attack them, however nicely. In this case, I believe the intention was to point out a mis-written (bad) link, not as you assumed a (properly written) link to an unsuitable site. While the reason for the bad link was not explicitly stated, the alternative, correct link was. Sorry there, I thought that was understood. For the record: www[dot]easyphp[dot]com is an adsense-spam site that was a typo on marvin's part, and http://www.easyphp.org was the intended site, which is a dev package for PHP, etc. Anyway, time to go back on-topic :) -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The usability of a frame-style layout
Opera has a navigation bar that users can turn on or off. It sits across the top of a page, and is populated by LINK elements in the HEAD section of a document. Do you happen to know any sites that work with this concept? So any sites that have LINK elements in the HEAD section that would show up in Opera? Mine does... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/toc_7a.html ...with a few shortcomings: 1: Opera doesn't support hierarchical links all that well, so I haven't added any 'child' links. 2: Mozilla's support is better, but it is slightly complex to use with its many dropdowns, so I have not used its support as base. 3: Lynx is superior in its support for link-relations, but that browser isn't widespread enough to add the extra link relations for. More about link relations here... http://www.w3.org/TR/relations.html You may also be interested in PPK's revamped site. See for example the Blogs page, and activate the show site navigation link on the left. Is this what you had in mind? - Exactly. Well, I think there must be a better way to design it, so it doesn't overlap important content, but in the long run this is what I was thinking about. I guess I shouldn't have titled it frame-style - it took people off track with the discussion. But this is exactly the idea - why not provide navigation at all times to the user (in a standards compliant way of course)? I think this page present what you want... http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/ It's as standard compliant as you may wish for, and I think even IE7 can handle it now. I use the same 'position: fixed' on my page (linked above), but the sidebar isn't populated with links since it's on a menu page. The difference is that even IE6 is apparently able to support it on my page, but that doesn't make IE6 standard compliant, I'm afraid. More about CSS frames here... http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200609/css_frames_v2_fullheight/ regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org (Away until 09/10/2006)
I will be out of the office until the 9 October 2006. Please contact Jacqueline Marcus on 9391 9967 or Martha Herewini on 9391 9048 for urgent requests. __ This email has been scanned for the NSW Department of Health by the MessageLabs Email Security System. The Department regularly monitors emails and attachments to ensure compliance with its Electronic Messaging Policy. _ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
Al Sparber wrote: dragged diagonally to the submenu item instead of along and then down. and menus vanish unless the mouse is That makes the menu totally unusable, in my opinion. Tis the Achilles heel of pure CSS menus. Hi All - back again and hopefully without any need for any javascript. If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. That makes the menu totally unusable, in my opinion ... is that a bit strong or is it me? I think the navigation on my page above is pretty straight forward to use and a lot better than some seen on the net - it certainly isn't 'totally unusable' - thank you. cheers, Max. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
On 29 Sep 2006, at 15:50, John 'Max' Maxwell wrote: Al Sparber wrote: dragged diagonally to the submenu item instead of along and then down. and menus vanish unless the mouse is That makes the menu totally unusable, in my opinion. Tis the Achilles heel of pure CSS menus. Hi All - back again and hopefully without any need for any javascript. If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. That makes the menu totally unusable, in my opinion ... is that a bit strong or is it me? I think the navigation on my page above is pretty straight forward to use and a lot better than some seen on the net - it certainly isn't 'totally unusable' - thank you. Hi John/Max Works fine on Safari 2.0.4 on Mac OS X 10.4.7. You might want to think about adding some visual clue that there is a pop-out menu to the appropriate items on the navigation, like small right-facing arrows flush to the RHS. As for the 'totally unusable' comment, I think what Al is pointing out is the issue with all CSS menus, in that you can't 'skip' the mouse diagonally into the pop-up menu diagonally from the main menu, as the menu disappears; it's a very subtle thing, but is easy to notice when you compare it to the OS-level pop-outs. I.E Seniors (a) Chiefs Quins Athletic Colts (b) Vets You can't move directly from (a) to (b), as the sub-menu disappears when you move diagonally down and right, away from (a). See http://www.mackido.com/Interface/hysteresis.html for a better explanation. HTH -- Andy Warwick, Creed New Media Ltd. Contact me: http://www.creed.co.uk/contact.htm Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/2XK5NOX5Z5TQK/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
From: John 'Max' Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi All - back again and hopefully without any need for any javascript. If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. That makes the menu totally unusable, in my opinion ... is that a bit strong or is it me? I think the navigation on my page above is pretty straight forward to use and a lot better than some seen on the net - it certainly isn't 'totally unusable' - thank you. I mouse over Seniors. I see the sub-menu. I want to click on Athletic. I jusr worked out and my arm muscles are a bit quivery. My natural tendency is to move my mouse diagonally, following the straightest possible path to my destination. The popout menu keeps snapping shut on me. I would say, this approach is more usable: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/listmenus/exp_vproto/ -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
That makes the menu totally unusable, in my opinion. Tis the Achilles heel of pure CSS menus. Hi All - back again and hopefully without any need for any javascript. If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. That makes the menu totally unusable, in my opinion ... is that a bit strong or is it me? I think the navigation on my page above is pretty straight forward to use and a lot better than some seen on the net - it certainly isn't 'totally unusable' - thank you. Yes, it is a bit strong but it has a lot of truth in it. Please stop flogging that dead horse of hopefully without any need for JavaScript. CSS was never meant to define behaviour, and you are completely at the mercy of the browser. At least with a bit of JavaScript doing the heavy behaviour lifting you can test if your menu system can be applied, you can determine whether the menu will fit the screen without causing scrollbars and you can make the functionality time delayed to allow for user mistakes. There is really nothing but an academic wow it can be done about CSS only solutions for menus. In case you care, I make my case here: http://www.wait-till-i.com/index.php?p=327 -- Chris Heilmann Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
John 'Max' Maxwell wrote: If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. Max. xp :: ie/ff/opera It is working for me in the above browsers. No problem holding the flyout for me. Nothing is perfect. So be it. Regards, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 11:22:05AM -0400, ~davidLaakso wrote: It is working for me in the above browsers. No problem holding the flyout for me. Nothing is perfect. It might not be possible to be perfect, but we should strive to produce the best $x possible. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
A I would say, this approach is more usable: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/listmenus/exp_vproto/ ? Surely if you try to go from 'bridges' to 'manhattan' it does the same thing - vanishes? Are you actually saying you prefer the alternative of a larger button as a 'method'? I presumed after your damning review that you were going to show me a whizz bang alternative that only a proper coder could achieve ... not a 'bigger button'. I'll take all the usability issues on board thanks but what I really meant was - does it work. Thanks again. Max. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
I have selected your response from a cast as the only one I feel even merits acknowledgement. Thank you for your response and advise I will indeed look at the other options. I am not quite sure what warrants the attitude of some of the posters on here but it really is tiresome. Coding skills you have - but people skills? It is true that they really rarely co-exist. Basically as the explanantion to use JavaScript and a timeout does allow you to offer the UI effect Andy was talking about? The article I posted explains in detail why CSS only solutions fail and what more you can achieve by making CSS and JavaScript work together. The post was commissioned by one of the admins of CSS-Discuss as exactly this discussion has been happening there over and over again. People skills also include dealing with criticism and filtering responses as to what is valuable to solve your problem for a wider audience. Simply judging others on a mailing list response is not enough for that. I found that I got the best results out of controversial discussions and some of the people I had real email fights with now work with me or have become very good contacts indeed. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
From: John 'Max' Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would say, this approach is more usable: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/listmenus/exp_vproto/ ? Surely if you try to go from 'bridges' to 'manhattan' it does the same thing - vanishes? It's a lot less likely to happen. We actually conducted a lab on this very menu, as it is to be a future product. Are you actually saying you prefer the alternative of a larger button as a 'method'? I presumed after your damning review that you were going to show me a whizz bang alternative that only a proper coder could achieve ... not a 'bigger button'. I apologize if you think my review was damning. I was trying to give you a little advice. You don't have to accept it. I'll take all the usability issues on board thanks but what I really meant was - does it work. From a purely mechanical standpoint, yes - it does function as I believe you intend it to. Sorry if you misunderstood my intentions and best of luck to you. -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
John 'Max' Maxwell wrote: If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. Max. xp :: ie/ff/opera It is working for me in the above browsers. No problem holding the flyout for me. Nothing is perfect. So be it. Regards, ~dL Hi Max, As David states your submenus work on a Windows XP machine using IE6, FireFox1.5, Opera 8. I did notice a strange gap in the bottom left hand side in IE6 however. I put a screenshot here: http://www.neighborwebmaster.com/examples/projectXie6.jpg I also tested Netscape 7.1. The submenus appear at the top of the browser instead of next to the parent menu item. I have a screenshot here: http://www.neighborwebmaster.com/examples/projectXns71.jpg If I have time later, I will see if I can figure out what is causing that behavior. Also, for all the people advocating using a JavaScript solution, remember to make sure the submenus are visible when JavaScript is turned off. A lot of the examples I have seen do not degrade nicely with JavaScript disabled - the submenus just become inaccessible. I know you *can* make the submenus work (by making them always visible) with JavaScript off, I just think sometimes people forget to test their sites with JavaScript off. Regards, Kepler Gelotte http://www.neighborwebmaster.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
Also, for all the people advocating using a JavaScript solution, remember to make sure the submenus are visible when JavaScript is turned off. A lot of the examples I have seen do not degrade nicely with JavaScript disabled - the submenus just become inaccessible. I know you *can* make the submenus work (by making them always visible) with JavaScript off, I just think sometimes people forget to test their sites with JavaScript off. It's very easy, but not always the best solution :-) Perhaps this article will at least explain my personal perspective on the matter: http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/accessibility/pop_integrated/index.htm -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
Kepler Gelotte wrote: John 'Max' Maxwell wrote: If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. Max. xp :: ie/ff/opera It is working for me in the above browsers. No problem holding the flyout for me. Nothing is perfect. So be it. Regards, ~dL Hi Max, As David states your submenus work on a Windows XP machine using IE6, FireFox1.5, Opera 8. I did notice a strange gap in the bottom left hand side in IE6 however. I put a screenshot here: http://www.neighborwebmaster.com/examples/projectXie6.jpg Hi Kepler, thanks for that - yeah I know about the gap at the bottom already on it. cheers, Max. ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
[WSG] Using real images for quotes in blockquote
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/using_real_images_for_quotes_in_blockquotes.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using real images for quotes in blockquote
On 9/29/06, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/using_real_images_for_quotes_in_blockquotes.asp The first thought that occurs to me - couldn't this be done using :before and :after instead? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using real images for quotes in blockquote
Matthew Pennell wrote: The first thought that occurs to me - couldn't this be done using :before and :after instead? Not in IE though... P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Background Image Bullets
Gene Falck wrote: That site shows a background image bullet problem that affects files with many list bullets formed using the background image method. I see this result running Mozilla 1.7 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616) on Win XP (Home) with SP2. Based on that string, the version you're running was released on 16 June 2004...I occasionally run version 1.7.8 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 and don't see the issue you mention. So yes, definitely looks like it was a bug (which has been fixed since 2004). In fact, it may have been around for a while (see this bugzilla report from 2002) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174981 P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Textarea attribues.
This subject has probably risen more times than one can count on their fingers, but I have been unable to find the argument online. What, exactly, is the idea behind keeping the attributes of rows and cols a requirement of a textarea in XHTML 1.0? It seems to me that these values reflect formatting rather than valid information. Jough ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] CSS flyout menu
Works in Mozilla suites ie7 (with a little design difference) Jack Kennard Web Designer http://www.WebSailingDesigns.com 770 933-2000 x233 Stay up to date with the latest travel technology on the web http://www.websailingdesigns.com/blog/ Win a free trip to Andalucia http://www.romanticislandgetawaytours.net/rss/ Stay in touch by Instant Messenger msn- [EMAIL PROTECTED] yahoo- javajoba Please do not use these for emails John 'Max' Maxwell wrote: Kepler Gelotte wrote: John 'Max' Maxwell wrote: If anyone has a second could they please take a look at this again at www.project.ex16.co.uk and let m eknow how the flyout menu performs on their specific set-up. Max. xp :: ie/ff/opera It is working for me in the above browsers. No problem holding the flyout for me. Nothing is perfect. So be it. Regards, ~dL Hi Max, As David states your submenus work on a Windows XP machine using IE6, FireFox1.5, Opera 8. I did notice a strange gap in the bottom left hand side in IE6 however. I put a screenshot here: http://www.neighborwebmaster.com/examples/projectXie6.jpg Hi Kepler, thanks for that - yeah I know about the gap at the bottom already on it. cheers, Max. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Image replacement menu that works with images off
I thought I'd post back to let you know what I came up with. It turned out that I was able to use Thierry's solution (http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/tip.asp). Result can be seen here http://geekministry.com/yeah/index.php If I'm using a BR before the text it is because of IE that shows tiny icons when images are turned off. Have a great weekend Kim John Faulds skrev: I wrote an article about styling a horizontal nav with the IR technique I mentioned previously: http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/single-image-replacement-rollovers-with-suckerfish-dropdowns/ It also includes a bit on how to combine it with Suckerfish Dropdowns, but the first part should relate to what you want. On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:15:36 +1000, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Maybe I should extend my question a bit. Here on this page http://geekministry.com/yeah/index.php I'm currently using Dan Cederholm/Pixi's solution http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2003/09/30/accessible_imagetab_rollovers.html which works very well with images on. The obvious problem is with images off. Is using a list the best way for a navigation? The reason I ask I because is because I want to follow best practice (at my level out in the fine art of doing web sites) and I think that using a list and css images (separating structure from presentation et al) must be better than using real nav buttons or shims/spacer gifs with alt texts... right? The thing I can't get my head around is how to have different size nav items without creating 4 css rules for each nav item. (similar to example 4 in this article http://tjkdesign.com/articles/tip.asp) but that would also require me to use a div for each nav item... right? I've probably been thinking so much over this problem that I might be overlooking a real simple solution. Thank you Kim John Faulds skrev: snip It should be pointed out that this method has problems when you resize the text (unless you've since found a way to fix that Mike). My recommendation would be: http://www.ryznardesign.com/web_coding/image_replacement/index.html --Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** --Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
And speaking of XHTML 1.0, I was surprised to also find a lot of presentational attributes still left in the table-related elements (table, tr, th, td, col etc), even in strict. Surely width, border, cellspacing, cellpadding, valign, halign could have been expunged from strict? True, but unlike 'row' and 'col' for textarea which are required, all attributes you have mentioned are implied [1]. What makes these different? I agree that there should be NO presentation attributes in XHTML strict, but if we are to have some why would they be required? [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd Jough *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
David Dorward wrote: On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 10:40:37PM +0100, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: And speaking of XHTML 1.0, I was surprised to also find a lot of presentational attributes still left in the table-related elements (table, tr, th, td, col etc), even in strict. Surely width, border, cellspacing, cellpadding, valign, halign could have been expunged from strict? The design predates CSS 2, so there wasn't a suitable alternative. XHTML 1.0 is dated 26 January 2000, while CSS 2 is 12 May 1998 ... or am I missing something here? P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 11:12:10PM +0100, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: The design predates CSS 2, so there wasn't a suitable alternative. XHTML 1.0 is dated 26 January 2000, while CSS 2 is 12 May 1998 ... or am I missing something here? XHTML 1.0 is a direct port (well, almost) of HTML 4.01 to XML. HTML 4.01 is a bug fix to HTML 4.0. HTML 4.0 came out in December '97. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
Jough wrote: True, but unlike 'row' and 'col' for textarea which are required, all attributes you have mentioned are implied [1]. What makes these different? I agree that there should be NO presentation attributes in XHTML strict, but if we are to have some why would they be required? [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd Ah, you're right, forgot about that...that's even worse, definitely. And yes, based on the definition of those attributes, there's really nothing beyond the presentation intended This attribute specifies the number of visible text lines. [...] This attribute specifies the visible width in average character widths. Maybe somebody from the W3C HTML list could enlighten us as to why these attributes were kept as required? Is it just for backwards compatibility? P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
Jough wrote: This subject has probably risen more times than one can count on their fingers, but I have been unable to find the argument online. What, exactly, is the idea behind keeping the attributes of 'rows' and 'cols' a requirement of a textarea in XHTML 1.0? It seems to me that these values reflect formatting rather than valid information. They provide useful size information in the absence of CSS. Unfortunately, UAs traditionally render textareas without an explicit size as a tiny little box that's difficult to use, so there was a practical need for them rather than a semantic need. However, the cols attribute is useful in conjunction with the non-standard wrap attribute (which is currently being standardised by the WHATWG) because it adds semantic information about where to insert line breaks. e.g. textarea wrap=hard cols=72 wrap lines at least every 72 characters and those line breaks will be submitted to the server. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
David Dorward wrote: On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 11:12:10PM +0100, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: The design predates CSS 2, so there wasn't a suitable alternative. XHTML 1.0 is dated 26 January 2000, while CSS 2 is 12 May 1998 ... or am I missing something here? XHTML 1.0 is a direct port (well, almost) of HTML 4.01 to XML. HTML 4.01 is a bug fix to HTML 4.0. HTML 4.0 came out in December '97. Ah, gotcha. It's starting to make sense, in a perverse sort of way. It still (maybe) leaves the question why XHTML 1.1 decided to keep them in the forms modules, since 1.1 is meant as a consistent, forward-looking document type cleanly separated from the deprecated, legacy functionality of HTML 4 Then again, maybe they felt that rows and cols weren't legacy functionality for some reason... P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
Jough wrote: What, exactly, is the idea behind keeping the attributes of ‘rows’ and ‘cols’ a requirement of a textarea in XHTML 1.0? It seems to me that these values reflect formatting rather than valid information. The problem with textarea is, how it should be displayed, when CSS is off? Should it default to 5, 10, 15, 20, ... rows? How wide should it be? Wide enough to write a poem, or as wide as the entire page? So, it's pretty clear, there has to be some way of telling the non-CSS browsers how to large the textarea should be. Maybe the textarea could have some default values, which would make the cols and rows optional, but it's pretty hard to agree what those default values should be. Maybe the guys in W3C just couldn't agree on a default value. -- Rene Saarsoo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Textarea attribues.
Rene Saarsoo wrote: The problem with textarea is, how it should be displayed, when CSS is off? Should it default to 5, 10, 15, 20, ... rows? How wide should it be? Wide enough to write a poem, or as wide as the entire page? But that's a UA issue, and UAs handle the same thing for inputs and selects already. Whether they do a good job or a bad one is certainly up for question, but taking the what if CSS is off approach can lead to an argument for reintroducing any presentational stuff back into the markup...i.e. it's a slippery slope. P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
