Re: [WSG] [OT] What happend to WebDesign-L?
I had a subscription to the WebDesign mailing list at http://webdesign-L.com/. Suddenly, a couple months ago, I stopped receiving any mail from the list. I have tried to re-subscribe, with no response. I have tried sending messages to the list-mom at both his list-mom address and his private address. I get a series of responses that my mail can't be delivered. Hi Carl: I have a problem with that list - I can receive messages but can't reply back. One night I did some researching and my ISP was on a spam list, but like nearly two years ago - but I think that may be the reason. I belong to many other lists though, css, wisewomen, evolt, etc and don't have any problems with them, so not sure what to make of it. I wish I could figure out how to clear it up, but like you I tried writing Steve Cameron directly and couldn't get through. But, haven't agonized too much about it since I have plenty of other places to participate and at least I can read the messages. Maybe someone might see these messages and contact Steve? I really like him as a "list Mom" and would be nice to contribute occasionally. best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 www.westendwebs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visited Links and Accessibility
One of the points in accessibility checks is that information conveyed using colour is also conveyed without. The most common way of doing visited links is to have them be a slightly different colour. It's my opinion that in a purely visual sense (because I don't know how screen readers announce visited links) this approach is inaccessible. Its become a major pet peeve of mine that people are not styling visited links at all, many times, now-a-days. I give as an example a recent page I was looking at of Google's. http://mail.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=1555 In the "old" days the browser would automatically tell you what was visited or not. Now, with css many times people aren't including them and so very aggravating. I find that "visited" information crucially helpful when visiting a site, especially something like my example, above. So, not sure what the best way is, but, I myself, tend to go with a lighter shade of the non-visited. Just do something! :) cheers Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 www.westendwebs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The Decline of Print Styles
One of the problems with it ... a lot of internal folks had a hard time figuring out why what was on the screen was not what was coming out of their printer. LOL! I take it, by "internal folks" you mean faculty types with, as one would expect, an education somewhat beyond a high school diploma. Not much hope for us external folks, then, is there? I ran into the same issue with my main clients. The woman that sends in reports of various grants was in the habit of printing off a copy of whatever she was writing about and sending that with the report. She was "taken back" the first time it didn't work. I ended up making a pdf and sending it to her, but it has "taken me back" because it threw me into a dilemna about how to deal with it all. I see her need and feel like its a legitimate need. and was I able to explain to her what was going on I don't think so! :) Other times I've put "print this page" button on the page because apparently "no one" knows how to print without that, much less to do print preview! (it doesn't help that the local newspaper has "print this page" which takes someone to a separate, all text, html page - style sheets? what are style sheets?) its a uphill road, i tell ya! BUT, I did get major points recently from a new site I did. I'd told her (and she's a good friend) that I was making "print style sheets" and she didn't have to understand what that was but it was a *good* thing. A bit later she'd had to do some research and was very underwhelmed at trying to print various pages and at using so much ink. All of a sudden she *got it* what I had done and like I said "major points"! So, sometimes the road levels out a bit. :) best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The Decline of Print Styles
Hi, After browsing some favored CSS sites, some by Standards Evangelist, there seems to be a decline in the use of print styles. Has some movement escaped my research? Hi, don't know about the Standards Evangelist but I do think people in general just haven't got there yet. For me, at least, there was a whole lot to learn before I approached making separate styles for print and I've just been doing it routinely very lately. That said, here's one I did just about a month ago that I'm particularly proud of and I just "know" that probably no one has seen this except me and the woman I did it for, so a bit of a chance to show it off (it was a conversion from an Excel sheet). As I look at it though, I also realize its probably not accessible for a screen reader, sigh ... the ones that other organizations did in Maine, though, were pretty much accessible to no one! http://www.katahdininstitute.org/scorecard-hs-lastname.html and here's one that I like, too. http://mainehumanities.org/onebook/books.html this whole area "should" print well. :) i got rid of the menu completely, substituted a black and white logo and took out color, etc. There was an issue with the logo substitution on a Mac in Firefox (if I'm remembering right) sort of shadowing itself. Ended up letting it go just because it would effect so few people. In looking at both of these, I see things I wish I had done differently, that's one of the "problems" with this work, one never seems to be able to get it perfect and i quickly become dissatisfied with work from only a few months ago. Anyway, I would like to see more discussion about print styles on these lists and problems/issues with the various browsers. cheers Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WebSite Feedback
Everyone should use Gmail, it would solve annoyances 1 to 4. but then we get a new annoyance, invariably. people who post two or three times because they're not seeing their initial message from gMail. I vote for "just be tolerant". best Donna On 11/25/06, Tee G. Peng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Nov 22, 2006, at 3:36 AM, Luke wrote: > I would like to remind you that there is a advertisement in you e-mail > signature. Your message implied that the message from Marvin was a disguise and that his true intention was to advertise some service. FIY, webmails like Yahoo, hotmail, MSN and many others auto insert advertisement at the bottom of the email and Marvin was using hotmail - there is nothing he could do about the advertisement accept unsub from hotmail. If it bugs you, you have the following options" 1) unsub; 2) make a complaint to WSG admin, have them block members who use yahoo, msn, hotmail and so on - let's pray god that your voice is heard and your existence at WSG is essential to the WSG existence so that it makes certain your compliant be heard and action be taken accordingly by WSG admin; or 3) be tolerate; nobody steps on your toes. And I would like to ask, which one annoys you most: 1) people who use html email with his/her big company logo and listed 20 lines of the service he/she offers 2) people who didn't turn off vacation notice 3) people who don't trim their messages in reply 4) people who uses hotmail or other webmail services and is innocent like Marvin but being accused by you Sincerely, Tee G. Peng *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ******* -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie dev tool for ie 6 standalone?
Related - IE7 came down the Automatic Update pipe yesterday, so can anyone point me in the direction or a reliable standalone IE6 that will run happily next to IE7, 5.5 and 5? here you go: http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE I'm running IE6, 5.5 and 5.1 as standalones and the main thing I was concerned about was that they read Conditional Comments correctly and it appears they do. Oh, you have 5.5 and 5 already - I did too, but the installation of IE7 "broke" their condtional comments bit - the download fixes all of them, plus they come with the version number in the title bar (you don't have to go in and edit the registry like before). I, like Tee, would like to know if anyone knows how to get the Developer's Toolbar to work with IE6. best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Hi Susie: I think I'm in a similar position to you with a website that will be re-designed soon by the "print" designer. She's great and really knows her stuff and understands the web somewhat (probably more than most traditional designers) and I've been thinking of trying to collect a few urls that might help broaden her (and them) out of the fixed layout bit into new, standards compliant design. I've just collected one at this point, perhaps you're familiar with it, I know a lot of people on this list would be. http://www.westciv.com/style_master/house/index.html I plan on pointing out how the background is fixed, the menu bit in the top right (helps keep the regular menu from being so big and I'm always having to "fight" dropdowns, too, so helps in that). and I'll point out how it shrinks or expands to fit the browser. If this is the sort of thing you're looking for good, maybe you'll get some more urls (i could use them, too). Either I didn't understand or just about everyone else was not "on point". ;) cheers Donna Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: Hi there Where I work (Qld Uni) we work in a team to develop websites, which usually consist of an instructional designer, a graphic designer, and a web developer and/or programmer. The graphic designers do the graphic design/layout, and the web developers/programmers do the programming, including CSS. Up till recently our graphic designers have been used to designing for a table layout producing a Photoshop file that we then cut up. They have varying degrees of CSS knowledge, but mostly very little, so they¹re not really aware of what Œgraphic effects¹ can be created using CSS. Lately they¹ve been creating an ImageReady layout file and associated stylesheet, which I find completely unusable!! I always have to start again from scratch. We¹re having a GD/programmer meeting tomorrow to try and broaden people¹s knowledge, and work out a few guidelines about the Œrubbery line¹ between the GD and the Programmer¹s CSS responsibility. Does anyone have any experience here, or can point to any resources that might assist? Cheers susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
I have a little online store paying through Paypal, using their shopping cart. So the buy button opens up a new window and you're into Paypal. Hi - i've been looking at PayPal lately and thought i haven't done a cart I've seen that PayPal automatically sets the target in the form. If I was setting one up, I would just take that out (test to make sure it still worked, I would think it would) and then you'd just be opening in the same window, which feels much better. best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE 7 freezes liquid, jello
It would be great though if someone who has both IE7 and Opera could tell us how the Zooms are similar or different. IE7 zooms your page right off the right edge of the screen creating a horizontal scrollbar. :/ Opera confines its zoom to within the window. Are you sure about Opera? My Opera creates a horizontal scrollbar (granted I need to upgrade it) but it seems "logical" to me that a Zoom would do that (after all its increasing *everything* on the page, text, graphics, everything). If opera confined its zoom to within the window how would one know there was other material available? Or does the latest Opera have a different type of Zoom maybe, a magnifier best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE 7 freezes liquid, jello
Liquid designs, sized with percentage width, and the brilliant "Jello layout" from Mike Purvis[1] behave in a bizarre manner in IE 7 when page zoom is applied. It's as though the entire page grows or shrinks regardless of the window constraints, throwing a horizontal scrollbar when zoomed in (Ctrl +), and occupying only part of the browser window when zoomed out (Ctrl -). Even Nick Cowie's "Elastic fluid design" [2] suffers this fate. Does anyone have a solution? Hi David: I'm curious how this differs from Opera's zoom. That's the way Opera seems to work to me. I don't even have IE7 yet but have been thinking that its having "Zoom" will mean a lot more attention paid to dealing with its Zoom. I saw in a screen shot that the Zoom is very "out-front", being on the bottom-right of the status bar, so that means more people will be using it. Its a totally different thing than increasing the font-size and I'm assuming there will be more discussion of it, as IE7 becomes more prevalent. Just realized I have my "invite" from MS to download IE7!! That little update icon has been showing for a bit but I hadn't bothered to check it (I don't have auto updates on). Yes, I guess its time, November 1 is what they said and now it is November 2. Well, it will have to wait, I want to check out the "standalone IE6" stuff first. It would be great though if someone who has both IE7 and Opera could tell us how the Zooms are similar or different. Best Donna Cordially, David -- [1] <http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/jello-expo.html> [2] <http://nickcowie.com/2006/elastic-fluid-design-some-notes/> *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] web05 and other web conference links
Thanks for those Adam! very good. i'm still looking for webessentials '05 though. found Jeffrey Veen's site and an number of other references to it but the link seems to be down. at here, from Veen's page http://www.veen.com/jeff/archives/000793.html I go to: http://webessentials.org/ and get a "Bad Request (Invalid Hostname)" is it just "off the web", I wouldn't think so! best Donna WebVisions (Portland, 2006) - http://webvisionsevent.com/ I didn't speak at WebVisions, but I did a followup presentation for my company located here: http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2006/08/24/webvisions-2006-recap-my-presentation/ Carson Workshops Future of Web Apps San Fran - http://www.carsonworkshops.com/summit/ WSG meetup in London (how I found out about this fine list was listening to the podcasts) - http://muffinresearch.co.uk/wsg/ (Each speaker's own blog has links to the presentation and audio... I have talked about that here: http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2006/10/25/microformats-vs-the-semantic-web-big-s-big-w/ ) SXSW 2006 - http://2006.sxsw.com/coverage/podcasts/ There are a ton more, but those are the ones I've listened to recently. adam On 10/27/06, Donna Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi everyone: could someone send me the link to web05 (that was in Australia) and perhaps other more recent conferences. Looking for examples of using podcasts and also how people ended up putting their supporting materials on the web (i.e. power point slides, that sort of thing). I have listened to most of the web05 podcasts and really enjoyed them but downloaded them "way back" and can't find the link again. Okay, maybe I'm lazy, and could probably find it but other people might be interested in re-visiting it anyway. many thanks Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] web05 and other web conference links
Hi everyone: could someone send me the link to web05 (that was in Australia) and perhaps other more recent conferences. Looking for examples of using podcasts and also how people ended up putting their supporting materials on the web (i.e. power point slides, that sort of thing). I have listened to most of the web05 podcasts and really enjoyed them but downloaded them "way back" and can't find the link again. Okay, maybe I'm lazy, and could probably find it but other people might be interested in re-visiting it anyway. many thanks Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] "cell" is not a member of a group specified for any attribute.
Tee, see if this is what you want: column 1 column 2 column 3 column 1 column 2 You had the word "cell" and the validator was complaing about that, then I adjusted the colspan, - you can adjust to suit yourself. didn't actually validate it but used that Tidy extension I keep talking about and it flagged the problem. cheers Donna, now let's see if i can get back to work. :) Tee G. Peng wrote: Hi, I am doing a table layout that has 3 columns and 3 sections in row. The first two sections have 3 columns but I want the last section to have only 2 columns. My markup is such column 1 column 2 column 3 column 1 column 2 W3C validator give me the "cell" is not a member of a group specified for any attribute." error. How do I do to achieve desired layout and satify validator? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ******* -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Forget about Opera and Mac (and Windows Vista) ??
Taco Fleur wrote: Have you used that yourself? Is anyone else using it? If I understand it correctly, the pool gets build up till there is enough money to buy a subscription and then that login gets shared among everyone? No, everyone doesn't share the same login, its totally separate from anyone else and I imagine all the pools are set up like that. I've been a part of a pool for going on two years now and love it and its about $20/year. On a sleepy Saturday afternoon someone on the CSS list proposed a pool, someone else said "off-topic", but I'd already jumped at the opportunity! Still think those prices are out of this world, they would get everyone signing up if they brought their prices down.. I think they're generous for allowing pools, myself. and it been a big aid in learning css and also a aid to show to clients, you can make a "public url", to help get across the point that the world is bigger than their own particular browser. best, Donna -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 5:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Forget about Opera and Mac (and Windows Vista) ?? Not if you sign up to a group purchase: http://www.fundable.org/groupactions/BrowserCamGroup On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:47:28 +1000, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: PS: is there anything else out there other than http://www.browsercam.com They seem to be pretty pricy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design Web & print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ******* -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Forget about Opera and Mac (and Windows Vista) ??
Taco Fleur wrote: I thought I'd post this question as a separate item, as it probably got lost in my previous post. Should I be thinking about fixing up the issues in Opera and on the Mac or just say "tough luck!" All pages validate www.pacificfox.com.au, and I have no idea what is causing the issues, mainly with the 4 top buttons. http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=294234 7966358.JPG (Explorer 5.2 on Mac) 7966370.JPG (Opera) 7966382.JPG (Opera) And then there is http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=294540 Internet Explorer V7 I have no experience with IE7, is it maybe still in Beta, is that why it is displaying this badly? The pages validate properly. Any help, hints etc. much appreciated. Hi Taco: I agree with the folks that say "fix it". One thing is, some things are messed up in mozilla (on a PC); likely if you fixed it for Safari it would be fixed for mozilla, too. Mozilla is a pretty easy download and I go back and forth between it and Firefox and it has a few things that I like better than Firefox, you might want to get it, too. I think your design is very attractive, btw! best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a new IE bug? maybe not
Hi Tee! > http://new.marinersq.com/html/aerobics-3.html The only thing I see that the right column drops to the bottom is when I resize the text to smaller. Is there a way to fix? I checked in mozilla and firefox and it does the same in those, also. Its so unusual for there to be a problem when the text "goes smaller" - I'll have to start checking for that, too. Usually I just make it bigger. Thought I'd mention this because I imagine you can see the borders and such in firefox and that would help deal with it. I think the problem is related to how you're defining the width in "container" and "right". "container defined with em and right with set pixels. But not sure what you should do about it! cheers Donna Regards, tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ******* -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] In-page font sizer
Hello list, I¹m looking for a simple, tried and true method of allowing a user to increase/decrease font size on a page no, not by using browser settings. You know... You see an icon of a big ŒA¹ and a little Œa¹ and clicking them increases/decreases page font size... Any links to examples/how-tos are appreciated. Off-list replies are fine if this will avoid a Œmines better¹ war. This is the one I used recently. I found the directions really easy to follow. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/relafont/ The client wanted it, and they also work with a lot of "cognitive challenged" people and thought it would be a lot easier for them to *see* a button rather than having to teach them about browser re-sizing (which the client, herself, didn't know about until I told her). best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Outlook messes up the DOCTYPE???
Hi Bojana: I’ve got a problem with the doctype. The following code is in the code for the html page (in a browser): "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";> However, when this page is sent to an email address using the send this page via email option it strips out the loose doctype, and the source code for the email says: very interesting, I don't think I've ever seen that addressed anywhere. I doubt if many people "send a page as e-mail" from IE but I have known at least one that did it regularly, and, of course, you don't have any control over whether or not someone does. I haven't seen this addressed in relationship to IE7 either, maybe I missed it? Maybe someone could bring us up to speed on that, or if someone has the ear of MS, ask them. I have also tried replacing the transitional doctype with the loose one, so that there is only one doctype, but outlook just converted it to transitional … Why is this happening? How do I make sure that the outlook picks up the loose doctype? so, how much does it matter? I mean, how much difference does it make in how it looks? I would be surprised if there is any real solution (other than re-programming Outlook/Express) but look forward to hearing what more knowledgeable folks have to say. cheers, Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] tabs (was target=_blank)
"but i think almost every tab browser user would use the tabs." Are you guessing or is this what you have observed? When watching other people use computers - which I try to do whenever I get a chance - I have yet to see anyone except for the most web savvy use tabs. And these are people who are using Firefox, and one friend using IE7, every day. I don't suppose I'm typical, but i don't like tabs and don't use them very often. I prefer new browser windows and mainly its because i get around with "alt tabbing" through my windows. I don't like being married to the mouse and while I've learned one can Ctrl Tab, to go from tabbed page to tabbed page, i still prefer all my windows be open. Part of it is that a bunch of tabs at the top add considrably to the browser chrome, another part is that i'm used to looking in the bar at the bottom (task bar?) - with a bunch of tabs in one browser window, you can't tell what else is there, it just shows the active one. Alt tabbing works great for me and I routinely have 3 browsers open and maybe 15 or so windows and doing it all from the keyboard. cheers Donna No doubt this will change over time, but IMHO I feel it is too early to assume that everyone who can uses tabbed browsing. And I guess there will be some people who will always prefer not to. -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] to Donna re: annoying unsubscribe messages, etc.
"Just to publish a minority opinion! I consider these sorts of exchanges entertaining and I don't mind them at all. It makes me wonder if folks know how to thread their e-mail - for me the thread "unsubscribe" takes up exactly one space with its 14 messages underneath, but hidden." The problem lies not when you have individual messages, but when you're getting the list in digest format. When I first signed on, about a week ago, I was getting digest format, and I couldn't get through it every day because everything was repeated about a dozen times, and I couldn't make heads or tails of what subject was what. Then I tried to do individual emails, and I was so overwhelmed by the sheer amount of them (I'm a business owner, so I get at least 50-100 emails a day in addition to the emails from this group) that I found myself deleting all of them without even thinking about reading them simply because I couldn't get to any of the emails I really NEEDED to be reading. Hi Dani: We're sorta neighbors, by the way. Yes, not trimming really is hard on digest users, in particular. About individual e-mails. It sounds like you had the messages coming into your "regular in-box"?. Have you tried setting up a filter so that they go into a separate folder? I'm sure I couldn't manage these lists if they all went into my regular in-box, but with them being totally separate they don't interfer with other things I'm trying to get done. I'm more than happy to help you with a filter if you'd like. But, perhaps it should be off-list. I wonder if there should be a page we could point people to, to help in setting up filters with various e-mail clients (and threading). Maybe there is and i just don't know about it. I don't think we can assume that everyone knows how to do that sort of thing (maybe Dani does though and I just "mis-read"). times, yet never in the context of the most recent question I posed to the list (IE6 seeming to ignore the white-space attribute), yikes, can appreciate your frustration! I just re-read your original post and probably one reason you didn't get any responses is because you didn't have a url or a screen shot. I actually thought about answering it earlier but it would have been a "wild semi-uneducated" guess on my part. One thing that does come to mind though, is italics involved? There is an IE italics bug, here's the article on it, just in case. http://positioniseverything.net/explorer/italicbug-ie.html (helped me keep what hair i have left) all the best, Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] unsubscribe
And the number of stupid messages everyday makes me want to get away from this verbosity as well. A policy on who can send a dozen dumb emails a day to annoy everyone. Sick of so much crap as well. How do you define "dumb emails" ? And why do you top - post, leaving us guessing what you refer to and add a list of 6 quoted footers nobody needs. I agree that frivolous emails on a mailing list are annoying, but personally I tend to think that you should do some things right before complaining about the quality of other posts. Verbosity is quoting what is not needed, too. Just to publish a minority opinion! I consider these sorts of exchanges entertaining and I don't mind them at all. It makes me wonder if folks know how to thread their e-mail - for me the thread "unsubscribe" takes up exactly one space with its 14 messages underneath, but hidden. I can easily open and close with my arrow keys, so ... not a big deal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not campaigning for useless messages but I don't understand the complaining either. (just for clarity, I'm referring to the first quote, not Christian's, who obviously makes good points). Okay, maybe I should "get a life", too. :) cheers, Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
How many people on this thread are actually using IE7? I am, for one, with a standalone solution. If you run the standalone versions you are going to have problems. It's not a clean solution. I never had any problems and I use all the standalone versions I could get, from IE3 to IE7. I've not had any problems, that i know of with my standalone 5.5 and 5.01. Virtual PC may be free now, but the guest operating systems aren't, AFAIK. Besides, my Windows is legit, but it's the home edition and Virtual PC doesn't run on it (I know I should have chosen the professional version, but that was not an option at the time because the machine I wanted was not sold with it... It's sometimes hard to live in a small country!). Yes, i found that out, too, and unfortunately I have xp home. (and I don't live in a small country (usa)) but was told it "didn't matter" and i've regretted in the past and regret it even more now. my "plan" is to just wait to get IE7 until its ready via regular updating download. (in the meantime, i'm in a browsercam pool and can check IE7 there). Then, install IE6 as a standalone. I think the last one from here http://browsers.evolt.org/?ie/32bit/standalone seems to most likely. wonder if anyone has any opinion on my "plan" and/or choice of download? and does anyone know if this IE6 standalone works essentially the way the earlier ones do? best Donna Regards, Roberto ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
Just read that here too: http://mezzoblue.com/archives/2006/07/27/priority/ If the timing is as Dave suggests, that doesn't leave much time to get everything behaving in IE7! Time to start stressing!!! *smile* so, yes, more changes coming on fast - never much time to relax, eh. Having XP sp2, even though i don't have anything set on automatic, I imagine I'll download it when its available SO I want my "stand-alone" IE6 - does anyone know if there is one or being worked on? And, if we ever decide to have a web designers hall of fame, i'd vote for the guy (even though i don't remember his name, i'd look it up) who figured out how to do the stand-alone IEs - that was/is so remarkable! cheers Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Media print strange things
Hi Eugenio:
Try this for starters,
you have:
try putting a media reference on your "main style sheet", like so:
that should separate the two style sheets for blending together. I
think the way you had it, it was probably defaulting to media="all".
hth
Donna
TuteC wrote:
Hello again. I´ll try to explain some weird problems I have with the
printing css file ("imprimir.css" in http://www.fanus.com.ar/Dev/).
In IE and Firefox, when I try to print the page as I see it, it prints
it witout background images nor sidebar as I want, but it keeps the
header and sidebar space wasting quite a lot of paper. It seems to mix
both style sheets.
Now, if I try seeing the CSS for printing with the web developer tool
of Firefox, it looks like it disallows all CSS files presenting only
the structure. But when I try yo print like this, it looks in the
preview as I describe in "imprimir.css", with minor errors I should
solve.
What´s happening?
Thanks in advance for your help;
Eugenio.
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******
--
Donna Jones
Portland, Maine
207 772 0266
http://www.westendwebs.com/
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Re: [WSG] pop-ups
I thought this was a very neat solution (without popups): http://juicystudio.com/article/form-help-without-popups.html I just triple-bookmarked that (a habit when i consider something important). very neat and i like the fact that the "help" icon toggles with "enter key", all of it is very keyboard accessible. best, Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Wide Horizontal Navbar issues
Anyway that certainly made the page look really weird when I added padding onto the body element. And the scrollbar was still there. And then, when I took out the 100% width for the top banner, that knocked out the repeating banner background, which is there to make the page liquid and bring the banner right across. Any further thoughts? Hi Susie: I just added this, width: 99%; on your html, body that made the scroll go away, not sure if its the best way or not but worked. I did it in foxfire, using the edit css bit. cheers donna Thanks susie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Print style sheets - still struggling!
Hi Donna, and thanks. I wrote a follow up, the next day, saying that I'd fixed it. What it was, there was a' text-align : justify' in the main (screen) css and this was (for some reason) confusing the floats in the print CSS. Changing it to 'text-align : left' in the print CSS worked wonders! But thanks anyway! ah and i didn't see your follow-up - never let it be said that I'm "ahead of the curve". ;) -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Print style sheets - still struggling!
Hi Bob: I am still battling with print style sheets - In particular, I have several property descriptions on the holiday site, [1], and I'm failing to get a decent print out. Some are OK, some are awful, and I can't see what the difference is. If you go to the site, pick 'holiday homes', then 'Constantine', then 'Curlews' and look at 'full details', you will find that the print style produces a reasonable print-out from firefox, but rubbish from IE. The problem is all tied up with the images being floated left and right: in FF there is no problem, but in IE I don't get any word wrap and the images stand alone. It's a mess. The two style sheets for these details are at [2] and [3]. If anyone has had experience of this and how to overcome it, I'd be really, really, thrilled. you know what, i looked at Curlews in IE6 and it was perfect. I noticed an option I'd never noticed before, the option to "print selected frame" maybe that's a clue that will help. the issue is w/ the frames, somehow, maybe. Donna [1] www.raintreehouse.co.uk [2] http://www.rhh.myzen.co.uk/rhh/css/propertydetails.css (media='all') [3] http://www.rhh.myzen.co.uk/rhh/css/property_print.css (media='print') Many thanks-- Best Regards, Bob McClelland Cornwall (UK) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] print styles and all that.
Donna Jones wrote: Wonder what Eric meant by "shift the floats" - curious, do you still have the link? Hi Donna, Yep - http://www.alistapart.com/articles/goingtoprint/ I've done better since I put them back, I must say! Hi Bob: just glanced at the article, thanks. I think I had seen it before, need to read it thoroughly probably. anyhoo, you mean you've done better since you've added the floats back in? I think what Eric was talking about was when a large element is floated (it doesn't work right in the Gecko browsers), and A List Apart is mainly large articles. It would seem like your images would have been floated but since they are not large that the float shouldn't be a problem for them. I may be missing something ;) noticed something else last night that i forgot to mention. your document doesn't validate, you have this, http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";> in there "extra" and it needs to come out. I think that's the only problem. I've been using the Tidy extension http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/ on pages, as I go. Tells me immediately, locally or on the web, whether there is a problem or not. couldn't "live" without it. cheers Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] print styles and all that.
Thanks Dan, I started that way, but then I read Eric Meyer on ALA telling me to always shift the floats! Also, whilst fine in FF, IE still doesn't word wrap, even with the floats. As most of the audience for this site will be using IE, it's a bit of a problem! Perhaps I should convert to pdf!(NO - I'm joking, honest!) yeah, sure you're joking. ;) Wonder what Eric meant by "shift the floats" - curious, do you still have the link? anyhoo, I always do as Daniel suggested, and I "think" I more-or-less picked that up from Eric. Also, in one of Eric's books (don't remember if its the red or blue) there is a print sheet chapter. One of his hints that i use a lot is to re-name the links so you can see on-screen what you're doing in the print. using "aural" in the normal screen area (aural isn't supported by any browser yet, so ) and using "screen" is what would normally be print. original: media="print"> change to: media="screen"> just did a print for the above, tonight. but print is rather new to me and i do think there is not enough information about it! this one went rather smoothly, unless there is something I'm not seeing (very possible). it really seems like IE shouldn't be having a problem with the wraps. cheers Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] scrolling sidebar
http://www.hobotraveler.com/template_SIDEBAR_JAVASCRIPT.shtml But what _is_ more user-friendly: splitting a long document into several pages to make navigation somewhat easier and then making the user constantly jump from one page to the other - or a navigation bar that would nicely scroll down as people are reading the content. Hi Christine: I think it depends on the user. For me having a long document is preferable to having it split into separate pages. But, I guess I do "scroll" differently than most people e.g. to get to the top of the page, i hit the "Home" key, "end" for bottom. And to scroll, I use the arrow keys. All of that, imho, is easier on my hands and there is a sense of more control and easier control with the arrows and I vary fingers a lot. (one just has to get the focus into the page which can be done with the tab key). If it could be done well (which might not be possible at the moment), it should be considered more user-friendly imho. i do wish more people knew how to scroll w/out using the mouse, i think then it wouldn't be as much of a design issue. cheers Donna Regards, Christine No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/309 - Release Date: 4/11/2006 -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Please Vote for your Favorite
Christian Montoya wrote: Hello listers, Liquid Designs reached 100 entries yesterday and I figured the best way to celebrate would be to let everyone decide the best design out of those 100. I had a team of 4 guest reviewers pick their favorites and they came up with 7 finalists. Please take a moment to vote for your favorite one. Voting will continue until midnight Saturday (EST). http://cssliquid.com/2006/news/100-gallery-entries-now-vote-for-the-best/ Hi Christian: is the voting really working right. When I clicked on the bottom-right one to view it, the radio button was also selected, even though i didn't necessarily mean to vote for it. and, in looking at the results the first site has far the most votes which made me wonder further if they got the vote by people starting down the list with the intent to look at all of them but voted instead. Neat idea! cheers Donna -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
