RE: [SPAM] RE: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motio

[STRINGFELLOW Mike (Con)]

I vaguely remember that work Paul – but I’m amazed you’ve got all those figures 
in your head still!

 

I think Sezai might be able to attest to any general issues using a well set up 
SQL/SharePoint/SAN infrastructure. If funds allow, my experience has been that 
a well configured vmware solution is preferable given all the manageability 
benefits, with few issues arising.

 

Mike

 

MOSSuMS

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2008 2:50 PM
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motio

 

(put my CIsco hat on for a sec)..  In terms of IO and bottlenecks I did some 
work on this a few years back when we contractually had to guarantee a minimim 
media streaming throughput on a gigabit network. 

Once you go beyond 100mbit (and any virtual server infrastructure likely uses 
several teamed gigabit adapters), the PCI bus kicks in as an IO constraint. But 
PCI-X specification took care of that as it at the time did 133MB/s or 
1064Mb/sec (gigabit speed - and this was 6 years ago so and is faster now).

So once you move past bus speeds, for us, disk IO constraints kicked in at 
around 5-600mbit/sec. Of course, there are lots of dependencies here, but we 
were testing on seriously good hardware (for its time) on large compaq raid 
arrays. If we streamed data from memory, we acheived 992mbit on a gigabit 
network. If we read from disk it went down to 600-650mbit.

Even based on figures from 6 years ago, 600mbit is plenty to handle a heavy 
load SQL server for most sites :-)

Now VM or no VM, if the disk infrastructure is on a SAN, we know that PCI 
bottlenecks are unlikely to become an issue and fibre channel is 2 or 4 
gigabit. You could still hit constraints if enough VM's worked hard enough at 
he same time, but for the most part, it all comes down to the disk 
infrastucture you have.

I do know of companies that run production VM's because they have all of the 
same advantages of using VM's for Dev, but they always put their data on a 
fast, redundant disk infrastructire. They planned things properly by estimating 
future peak I/O requirements of their VM's and ensured that the VM hardware was 
sized for those peak loads.

Thus I don't see a problem with SharePoint/SQL on production VM's when properly 
sized and planned for. In fact I know IBM engineers who swear by this 
arrangment for Exchange as well (and Microsoft definitely does not support 
exchange on VM's)

regards

Paul


On Wed Feb 6 13:26 , Dave Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Mainly networking issues and high proc and IO's that choke a virtual 
server.  You need one heck of a virtual environment for a SQL server. Since 
MOSS makes many more calls than the previous version of SharePoint, SQL 
utilization goes up.
Dave P.







Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:06:46 +0900
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: Re: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motio

Dave is there any way you could elaborate more on "not seen SQL do 
well" just out of interest.

Thanks
Jeremy Thake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

On Feb 6, 2008 1:55 PM, Dave Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 > wrote:

I have seen several issues with MOSS when you virtualize SQL.  It is 
not recommended. You can virtualize the WFE's, but I have not seen SQL do well 
in a virtual environment.
What are the specs on the virtual environment?
 
Dave P.







Subject: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motion
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:03:08 +1100
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com 
 

Hi all,

We currently have a client who has a virtual SharePoint environment. 
Virtual Web/Application Server and a virtual SQL Server.

We are seeing, when the web/application server is v-motion, a whole 
stack of database connectivity errors appear in the event log, the SharePoint 
logs bloat to massive size and owstimer.exe is peaking out.

My initial investigation has revealed that while v-motion is happening, 
network connectivity between the web/application server and the SQL server is 
lost.

Has anyone encountered this before, as this seems like a common setup 
and if so, is there a work around for this (we have currently set the 
web/application and SQL server not to v-motion and be static).

Thanks,

- Adelaide SharePoint User group - http://www.aspug.org.au 
  (Comming Soon!)

- My Blog: http://www.danielbrown.id.au  

ý Please consider the envrionment before printing this email.

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Re: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motion

[Bill Williamson]

By "while it is vmotion" do you mean "While we are actively moving it
between physical VM hosts" ?

If so what did you expect?

If not, we need more details.

VMotion is what lets you reallocate a live running VM in a VMWare
cluster from one physical host to another, while running against their
propriatary SAN provider, and it shoudl not be TYPICALLY done except
in the case of taking down the physical machine.

For those of you who don't know, what it does is create an in-space
copy of RAM and state, move that to another server, all the while
keeping a "changelog" of things that happen.  Once the initial state
is synced, it syncs the changelog iterively until the new VM is the
same as the old, and then it switches out networking/etc.  It's
amazing that something like it works, but one caveat is it DOES NOT
work with active socket connections (which will time out in most
circumstances).

On 2/6/08, Daniel Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> We currently have a client who has a virtual SharePoint environment. Virtual
> Web/Application Server and a virtual SQL Server.
>
> We are seeing, when the web/application server is v-motion, a whole stack of
> database connectivity errors appear in the event log, the SharePoint logs
> bloat to massive size and owstimer.exe is peaking out.
>
> My initial investigation has revealed that while v-motion is happening,
> network connectivity between the web/application server and the SQL server
> is lost.
>
> Has anyone encountered this before, as this seems like a common setup and if
> so, is there a work around for this (we have currently set the
> web/application and SQL server not to v-motion and be static).
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Adelaide SharePoint User group - http://www.aspug.org.au (Comming Soon!)
>
> - My Blog: http://www.danielbrown.id.au
>
> ý Please consider the envrionment before printing this email.
>
>
>
> ---
> OzMOSS.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list
> with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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RE: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motion

[Daniel Brown]

What did I expect? 

Hmm maybe that the point of this email as I'm not a ESX, VMWare or V-Motion 
expert? I sort out other people who may have the knowledge to help me provide a 
solution. As I've never dealt with SharePoint in an environment using V-Motion!

So now, I have some facts and such to go back to our VM person who can handle 
it appropriately with key pieces of information!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Williamson
Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2008 7:01 PM
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: Re: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motion

By "while it is vmotion" do you mean "While we are actively moving it
between physical VM hosts" ?

If so what did you expect?

If not, we need more details.

VMotion is what lets you reallocate a live running VM in a VMWare
cluster from one physical host to another, while running against their
propriatary SAN provider, and it shoudl not be TYPICALLY done except
in the case of taking down the physical machine.

For those of you who don't know, what it does is create an in-space
copy of RAM and state, move that to another server, all the while
keeping a "changelog" of things that happen.  Once the initial state
is synced, it syncs the changelog iterively until the new VM is the
same as the old, and then it switches out networking/etc.  It's
amazing that something like it works, but one caveat is it DOES NOT
work with active socket connections (which will time out in most
circumstances).

On 2/6/08, Daniel Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> We currently have a client who has a virtual SharePoint environment. Virtual
> Web/Application Server and a virtual SQL Server.
>
> We are seeing, when the web/application server is v-motion, a whole stack of
> database connectivity errors appear in the event log, the SharePoint logs
> bloat to massive size and owstimer.exe is peaking out.
>
> My initial investigation has revealed that while v-motion is happening,
> network connectivity between the web/application server and the SQL server
> is lost.
>
> Has anyone encountered this before, as this seems like a common setup and if
> so, is there a work around for this (we have currently set the
> web/application and SQL server not to v-motion and be static).
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Adelaide SharePoint User group - http://www.aspug.org.au (Comming Soon!)
>
> - My Blog: http://www.danielbrown.id.au
>
> ý Please consider the envrionment before printing this email.
>
>
>
> ---
> OzMOSS.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list
> with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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RE: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motion

[Aaron Saikovski]

It would be interesting what Windows server 2008 virtualisation brings to the 
table in regards to performance etc...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Brown
Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2008 7:49 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motion

What did I expect? 

Hmm maybe that the point of this email as I'm not a ESX, VMWare or V-Motion 
expert? I sort out other people who may have the knowledge to help me provide a 
solution. As I've never dealt with SharePoint in an environment using V-Motion!

So now, I have some facts and such to go back to our VM person who can handle 
it appropriately with key pieces of information!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Williamson
Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2008 7:01 PM
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: Re: [OzMOSS] MOSS & V-Motion

By "while it is vmotion" do you mean "While we are actively moving it
between physical VM hosts" ?

If so what did you expect?

If not, we need more details.

VMotion is what lets you reallocate a live running VM in a VMWare
cluster from one physical host to another, while running against their
propriatary SAN provider, and it shoudl not be TYPICALLY done except
in the case of taking down the physical machine.

For those of you who don't know, what it does is create an in-space
copy of RAM and state, move that to another server, all the while
keeping a "changelog" of things that happen.  Once the initial state
is synced, it syncs the changelog iterively until the new VM is the
same as the old, and then it switches out networking/etc.  It's
amazing that something like it works, but one caveat is it DOES NOT
work with active socket connections (which will time out in most
circumstances).

On 2/6/08, Daniel Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> We currently have a client who has a virtual SharePoint environment. Virtual
> Web/Application Server and a virtual SQL Server.
>
> We are seeing, when the web/application server is v-motion, a whole stack of
> database connectivity errors appear in the event log, the SharePoint logs
> bloat to massive size and owstimer.exe is peaking out.
>
> My initial investigation has revealed that while v-motion is happening,
> network connectivity between the web/application server and the SQL server
> is lost.
>
> Has anyone encountered this before, as this seems like a common setup and if
> so, is there a work around for this (we have currently set the
> web/application and SQL server not to v-motion and be static).
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Adelaide SharePoint User group - http://www.aspug.org.au (Comming Soon!)
>
> - My Blog: http://www.danielbrown.id.au
>
> ý Please consider the envrionment before printing this email.
>
>
>
> ---
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> with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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RE: [OzMOSS] MOSS as a HRIS system

[Aaron Saikovski]

I am working with a client at the moment that is writing their own and
just linking to it from Sharepoint.  That way when system updates occur
it is transparent to the user. But the gotcha is having to maintain two
separate systems.

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jeremy Thake
Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2008 5:21 PM
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] MOSS as a HRIS system

 

I've had a few queries about MOSS as an HRIS system. Just wondered if
there were any bolt on products out there by partners yet that leverage
MOSS to provide functions of an HRIS system? Or any bespoke products
that have strong integration with SharePoint?

Thanks,
Jeremy Thake
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[OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[Greg Mulholland]

Hi There All

Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our single
server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, sites, doc
library's, lists etc etc.

I thought of drawing this up in excel or somtehing but i was wondering if
there was a tool others new of that would help the automation of this
process. Anyone know of such?

Thanks

Greg Mulholland



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RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[Daniel Brown]

Hi Greg,

I'm not sure how well they would fit in to what you need, but at first
glance, the Worksheets could provide a solution for you.

I haven't done these myself, however I am looking at doing the, when
currently priorities are finished off.

Link:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library/49cf7edd-14ee-445b-8a
b0-1d1339f2435f1033.mspx?mfr=true

Cheers,

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Greg Mulholland
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 11:46 AM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

Hi There All

Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our
single
server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, sites,
doc
library's, lists etc etc.

I thought of drawing this up in excel or somtehing but i was wondering
if
there was a tool others new of that would help the automation of this
process. Anyone know of such?

Thanks

Greg Mulholland



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list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[Dave Porter]

You can also use Visio 2007 to import a site and it will build it out.
Dave P.



> Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:25:06 
> +1100> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com> > Hi Greg,> > I'm 
> not sure how well they would fit in to what you need, but at first> glance, 
> the Worksheets could provide a solution for you.> > I haven't done these 
> myself, however I am looking at doing the, when> currently priorities are 
> finished off.> > Link:> 
> http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library/49cf7edd-14ee-445b-8a> 
> b0-1d1339f2435f1033.mspx?mfr=true> > Cheers,> > Daniel> > > -Original 
> Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf> Of 
> Greg Mulholland> Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 11:46 AM> To: 
> listserver@ozMOSS.com> Subject: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007> > Hi There 
> All> > Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our> 
> single> server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, 
> sites,> doc> library's, lists etc etc.> > I thought of drawing this up in 
> excel or somtehing but i was wondering> if> there was a tool others new of 
> that would help the automation of this> process. Anyone know of such?> > 
> Thanks> > Greg Mulholland> > > > 
> ---> 
> OzMOSS.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the> list 
> with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.> Powered by mailenable.com - List managed 
> by www.readify.net> > > > > 
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RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[pculmsee]

Hi
Just make sure you document things like GAC'd DLL's and any manual edits to web.config that developers have asked you to put in there. There are a few ways to enumerate the guts of a farm/ssp/site collection, but that sort of stuff gets easily missed and it is that stuff that will hurt you during a move or recovery.
From a governance point of view of documenting farms/sites, my mantra is if its not given to me as a solution, I ain't putting it on :-) 
It's preferable to document, "deploy solution x, y and z" than it is to say "whack DLL x into GAC and edit web.config ... "
regards
Paul


On Thu Feb 7 9:25 , 'Daniel Brown' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi Greg,

I'm not sure how well they would fit in to what you need, but at first
glance, the Worksheets could provide a solution for you.

I haven't done these myself, however I am looking at doing the, when
currently priorities are finished off.

Link:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library/49cf7edd-14ee-445b-8a
b0-1d1339f2435f1033.mspx?mfr=true

Cheers,

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Greg Mulholland
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 11:46 AM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

Hi There All

Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our
single
server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, sites,
doc
library's, lists etc etc.

I thought of drawing this up in excel or somtehing but i was wondering
if
there was a tool others new of that would help the automation of this
process. Anyone know of such?

Thanks

Greg Mulholland



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RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[Aaron Saikovski]

Be interested in seeing how this works

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Dave Porter
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 12:41 PM
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

 

You can also use Visio 2007 to import a site and it will build it out.
Dave P.








> Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:25:06 +1100
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> I'm not sure how well they would fit in to what you need, but at first
> glance, the Worksheets could provide a solution for you.
> 
> I haven't done these myself, however I am looking at doing the, when
> currently priorities are finished off.
> 
> Link:
>
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library/49cf7edd-14ee-445b-8a
> b0-1d1339f2435f1033.mspx?mfr=true
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Greg Mulholland
> Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 11:46 AM
> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
> Subject: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
> 
> Hi There All
> 
> Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our
> single
> server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, sites,
> doc
> library's, lists etc etc.
> 
> I thought of drawing this up in excel or somtehing but i was wondering
> if
> there was a tool others new of that would help the automation of this
> process. Anyone know of such?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Greg Mulholland
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> OzMOSS.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the
> list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

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RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[Hans Molleman]

Visio allows you to create a sitemap of your portal structure

File > New> Software and Database > Web Site Map
In the url dialog, provide your MOSS url, eg http://moss.company.org
Then it will go to work, that might take a while.

The result is a huge tree with not-so-good names/titles.
You can apply some filters to get rid of certain entries.

Not sure if that's what you are after?


Hans Molleman | SharePoint Consultant |livePoint | SharePoint Solutions
E [EMAIL PROTECTED]| w +61 2 9929 6333 | m +61 (0) 
449 09 909 5



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 13:12
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

Be interested in seeing how this works

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Porter
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 12:41 PM
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

You can also use Visio 2007 to import a site and it will build it out.
Dave P.




> Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:25:06 +1100
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> I'm not sure how well they would fit in to what you need, but at first
> glance, the Worksheets could provide a solution for you.
>
> I haven't done these myself, however I am looking at doing the, when
> currently priorities are finished off.
>
> Link:
> http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library/49cf7edd-14ee-445b-8a
> b0-1d1339f2435f1033.mspx?mfr=true
>
> Cheers,
>
> Daniel
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Greg Mulholland
> Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 11:46 AM
> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
> Subject: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
>
> Hi There All
>
> Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our
> single
> server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, sites,
> doc
> library's, lists etc etc.
>
> I thought of drawing this up in excel or somtehing but i was wondering
> if
> there was a tool others new of that would help the automation of this
> process. Anyone know of such?
>
> Thanks
>
> Greg Mulholland
>
>
>
> ---
> OzMOSS.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the
> list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
> Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
>
>
>
>
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> with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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>
>
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RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[Aaron Saikovski]

nice

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Hans Molleman
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:03 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

 

Visio allows you to create a sitemap of your portal structure

 

File > New> Software and Database > Web Site Map

In the url dialog, provide your MOSS url, eg http://moss.company.org

Then it will go to work, that might take a while.

 

The result is a huge tree with not-so-good names/titles.

You can apply some filters to get rid of certain entries.

 

Not sure if that's what you are after?

 

 

Hans Molleman | SharePoint Consultant |livePoint | SharePoint Solutions

E [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | w +61 2 9929
6333 | m +61 (0) 449 09 909 5

 

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 13:12
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

 

Be interested in seeing how this works

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Dave Porter
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 12:41 PM
To: listserver@ozmoss.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

 

You can also use Visio 2007 to import a site and it will build it out.
Dave P.






> Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:25:06 +1100
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> I'm not sure how well they would fit in to what you need, but at first
> glance, the Worksheets could provide a solution for you.
> 
> I haven't done these myself, however I am looking at doing the, when
> currently priorities are finished off.
> 
> Link:
>
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library/49cf7edd-14ee-445b-8a
> b0-1d1339f2435f1033.mspx?mfr=true
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Greg Mulholland
> Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 11:46 AM
> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
> Subject: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
> 
> Hi There All
> 
> Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our
> single
> server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, sites,
> doc
> library's, lists etc etc.
> 
> I thought of drawing this up in excel or somtehing but i was wondering
> if
> there was a tool others new of that would help the automation of this
> process. Anyone know of such?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Greg Mulholland
> 
> 
> 
> ---
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 

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RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007

[Greg Mulholland]

Thanks everyone for the replies. The Visio way does sound kinda cool and
should do what i am looking for. Fairly simle to keep up to date i would
have thought as well.

Cheers

Greg

> Looks like what he meant is generating a site map. Visio has a site map
> generation capability, in which it crawls a site and creates an image. You
> can limit it in levels and links (otherwise you may end up with a huge
> map).
> Sadly it does not recognise SharePoint sites specially, and treats them as
> regular sites - so you will get a map that includes every document and
> list item, and the site settings etc, but you can configure it to ignore
> non aspx documents.
> [cid:image001.png@01C8698F.7E8786B0]
> [cid:image002.png@01C8698F.DECFF6B0]
>
> [cid:image003.png@01C86993.E22B32D0]
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Aaron Saikovski
> Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:12 PM
> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
> Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
>
> Be interested in seeing how this works
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Dave Porter
> Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 12:41 PM
> To: listserver@ozmoss.com
> Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
>
> You can also use Visio 2007 to import a site and it will build it out.
> Dave P.
>
>
> 
>
>> Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:25:06 +1100
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> I'm not sure how well they would fit in to what you need, but at first
>> glance, the Worksheets could provide a solution for you.
>>
>> I haven't done these myself, however I am looking at doing the, when
>> currently priorities are finished off.
>>
>> Link:
>> http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library/49cf7edd-14ee-445b-8a
>> b0-1d1339f2435f1033.mspx?mfr=true
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of Greg Mulholland
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 11:46 AM
>> To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
>> Subject: [OzMOSS] Documenting MOSS 2007
>>
>> Hi There All
>>
>> Ive been asked to perfrom an in depth documentation process for our
>> single
>> server moss farm. This should include list of site collections, sites,
>> doc
>> library's, lists etc etc.
>>
>> I thought of drawing this up in excel or somtehing but i was wondering
>> if
>> there was a tool others new of that would help the automation of this
>> process. Anyone know of such?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Greg Mulholland
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> OzMOSS.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the
>> list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
>> Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
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>> list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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>>
>>
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[OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Aaron Saikovski]

Dear All,

I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the
life of me how this works.

If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the
changes be reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need
to recreate the sites?

Can you refresh my memory.

 

 

Cheers,

Aaron




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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Hodges, Kristen]

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force
it to reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.
This is MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Dear All,

I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the
life of me how this works.

If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the
changes be reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need
to recreate the sites?

Can you refresh my memory.

 

 

Cheers,

Aaron

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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Ishai Sagi]

Depends what changes...changes to aspx pages will affect the existing ones.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force it to 
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is 
MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Dear All,
I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the life of 
me how this works.
If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that 
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes be 
reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate the 
sites?
Can you refresh my memory.


Cheers,
Aaron
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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Hodgson, John]

However I remember with WSS 2.0 you could actually make changes to an existing 
Site Def and certain changes would come through to sites already based on those 
definitions.

Especially items like new fields that are added at the end of a List definition 
or changes to an ASPX page that forms part of the site def, I expect this is 
still the same with MOSS unless someone has experienced otherwise.

John Hodgson
Lead Solution Consultant
HP Consulting & Integration
0411 242 880 mobile | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.hp.com

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force it to 
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is 
MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Dear All,
I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the life of 
me how this works.
If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that 
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes be 
reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate the 
sites?
Can you refresh my memory.


Cheers,
Aaron
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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Clayton James]

Site Definition ONET.xml

Changes to the Site Definitions ONET.XML file won’t be reflected in sites that 
have previously been created. Changes will only be reflected only when you 
create new sites.

 

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using notepad or VS.Net

If these pages are modified with notepad or VS.net (not SPD) and existing sites 
haven’t customised these pages using SPD then yes existing sites will take on 
these changes.

 

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using SPD

 If the .aspx pages have been customised using SPD then they are stored in the 
content database so changes to the original files on file system won’t change 
existing sites.

 

Cheers

CJ

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 01:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Depends what changes…changes to aspx pages will affect the existing ones. 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Sadly no it won’t pick up the changes automatically… but you can force it to 
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is 
MOSS 2007 I’m talking about here of course.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Dear All,

I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can’t remember for the life of 
me how this works.

If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that 
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes be 
reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate the 
sites?

Can you refresh my memory.

 

 

Cheers,

Aaron

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 05/02/2008 
08:57 PM


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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Aaron Saikovski]

Cool..confirms what i thought

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force
it to reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.
This is MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Dear All,

I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the
life of me how this works.

If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the
changes be reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need
to recreate the sites?

Can you refresh my memory.

 

 

Cheers,

Aaron

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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Aaron Saikovski]

Thats what i thought

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Depends what changes...changes to aspx pages will affect the existing
ones. 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force
it to reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.
This is MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Dear All,

I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the
life of me how this works.

If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the
changes be reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need
to recreate the sites?

Can you refresh my memory.

 

 

Cheers,

Aaron

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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Sezai KOMUR]

ONET.xml is used for PROVISIONING new sites, but if the site definition 
contains .aspx files then these are actually read from the file system every 
time (unless customised)

Changes in ONET.xml are read from the XML file the next time you create a site.

So you are stuck if you want your existing site to make use of changes in 
ONET.xml. You will need to 'magically' export out the content from your 
existing site, then re-create the site (provision a new site) using the updated 
site definition, then 'magically' re-import it in.

'magically' - using a custom built or third party content import/export tool
Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clayton James
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:18 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Site Definition ONET.xml
Changes to the Site Definitions ONET.XML file won't be reflected in sites that 
have previously been created. Changes will only be reflected only when you 
create new sites.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using notepad or VS.Net
If these pages are modified with notepad or VS.net (not SPD) and existing sites 
haven't customised these pages using SPD then yes existing sites will take on 
these changes.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using SPD
 If the .aspx pages have been customised using SPD then they are stored in the 
content database so changes to the original files on file system won't change 
existing sites.

Cheers
CJ


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 01:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Depends what changes...changes to aspx pages will affect the existing ones.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force it to 
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is 
MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Dear All,
I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the life of 
me how this works.
If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that 
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes be 
reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate the 
sites?
Can you refresh my memory.


Cheers,
Aaron
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 05/02/2008 
08:57 PM


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 05/02/2008 
08:57 PM
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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Peter Vranich]

If you haven’t customised the site from the Site Definition.  You can reset
to site definition which “should” pick up the new changes. Right?

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Sezai KOMUR
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 3:29 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

ONET.xml is used for PROVISIONING new sites, but if the site definition
contains .aspx files then these are actually read from the file system every
time (unless customised)

 

Changes in ONET.xml are read from the XML file the next time you create a
site.

 

So you are stuck if you want your existing site to make use of changes in
ONET.xml. You will need to ‘magically’ export out the content from your
existing site, then re-create the site (provision a new site) using the
updated site definition, then ‘magically’ re-import it in.

 

‘magically’ – using a custom built or third party content import/export tool

Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Clayton James
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:18 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Site Definition ONET.xml

Changes to the Site Definitions ONET.XML file won’t be reflected in sites
that have previously been created. Changes will only be reflected only when
you create new sites.

 

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using notepad or VS.Net

If these pages are modified with notepad or VS.net (not SPD) and existing
sites haven’t customised these pages using SPD then yes existing sites will
take on these changes.

 

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using SPD

 If the .aspx pages have been customised using SPD then they are stored in
the content database so changes to the original files on file system won’t
change existing sites.

 

Cheers

CJ

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 01:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Depends what changes…changes to aspx pages will affect the existing ones. 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Sadly no it won’t pick up the changes automatically… but you can force it to
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is
MOSS 2007 I’m talking about here of course.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Dear All,

I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can’t remember for the life
of me how this works.

If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes
be reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate
the sites?

Can you refresh my memory.

 

 

Cheers,

Aaron

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 05/02/2008
08:57 PM

 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 05/02/2008
08:57 PM

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[OzMOSS] TFS 2008 and MOSS 2007

[Prior, David]

Hi all,

 

I'm testing out TFS 2008 on a new server just to see what we can do with
it and why we would upgrade from TFS 2005.  I've read up on the
improvements and agree that we should move to 2008, but I was just
trying to work out what the benefits of going from WSS 3.0 (installed
with TFS 2008) to full blown MOSS 2007.

 

Has anyone deployed MOSS 2007 with their TFS 2008 installation? If so,
what additional stuff in MOSS are you using?

 

Once thing I want to try to set up is a Project Tasks web part that
reads the current Work Items and displays them as a gaant chart within
the portal.  I've tried doing this with WSS 3.0 but I can't figure out
how to point it to the TFS database. I figured I could use MOSS 2007 BDC
to do it, but am open to ideas?

 

Cheers,

 

David 


-

This communication may contain confidential information and/or copyright
material of KAZ Group Pty Ltd ABN 25 002 124 405 and its related bodies
corporate.  It may also be the subject of legal professional privilege.
If you are not an intended recipient, you must not keep, forward, copy,
use, save or rely on this communication and any such action is
unauthorised and prohibited.  If you have received this communication in
error, please reply to this e-mail to notify the sender of its incorrect
delivery, and then delete both it and your reply.

 




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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Clayton James]

In your scenario proposed Sezai I might be inclined to instead use Features to 
make changes to existing sites and update the site definition with a Feature 
reference for new sites created from the site definition.

 

1/ Create a Feature to add the new functionality to existing sites and deploy.

2/ Add the Feature reference (GUID) to the ONET.XML file so all new sites 
created from the site definition will have the new functionality.

 

This would eliminate on the import/export process.

 

CJ

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sezai KOMUR
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 02:29 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

ONET.xml is used for PROVISIONING new sites, but if the site definition 
contains .aspx files then these are actually read from the file system every 
time (unless customised)

 

Changes in ONET.xml are read from the XML file the next time you create a site.

 

So you are stuck if you want your existing site to make use of changes in 
ONET.xml. You will need to 'magically' export out the content from your 
existing site, then re-create the site (provision a new site) using the updated 
site definition, then 'magically' re-import it in.

 

'magically' - using a custom built or third party content import/export tool

Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
HYPERLINK "http://www.moss2007.com.au/"http://www.moss2007.com.au/

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clayton James
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:18 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Site Definition ONET.xml

Changes to the Site Definitions ONET.XML file won't be reflected in sites that 
have previously been created. Changes will only be reflected only when you 
create new sites.

 

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using notepad or VS.Net

If these pages are modified with notepad or VS.net (not SPD) and existing sites 
haven't customised these pages using SPD then yes existing sites will take on 
these changes.

 

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using SPD

 If the .aspx pages have been customised using SPD then they are stored in the 
content database so changes to the original files on file system won't change 
existing sites.

 

Cheers

CJ

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 01:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Depends what changes...changes to aspx pages will affect the existing ones. 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force it to 
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is 
MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

 

Dear All,

I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the life of 
me how this works.

If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that 
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes be 
reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate the 
sites?

Can you refresh my memory.

 

 

Cheers,

Aaron

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 05/02/2008 
08:57 PM

 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 05/02/2008 
08:57 PM

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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Sezai KOMUR]

You are right Clayton, that's a better way to do it. It's better to make use of 
features do the work, or you can change individual settings in the existing 
site with object model code, write a console app to modify specific site 
settings with code that you can't modify with the sharepoint UI or sharepoint 
designer.

It really depends on what you are specifically trying to do.

Import/export manually would also lose revisions and create/update user 
information and create/update times which is not good, and not an option in 
most cases.
Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clayton James
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:01 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

In your scenario proposed Sezai I might be inclined to instead use Features to 
make changes to existing sites and update the site definition with a Feature 
reference for new sites created from the site definition.

1/ Create a Feature to add the new functionality to existing sites and deploy.
2/ Add the Feature reference (GUID) to the ONET.XML file so all new sites 
created from the site definition will have the new functionality.

This would eliminate on the import/export process.

CJ

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sezai KOMUR
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 02:29 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

ONET.xml is used for PROVISIONING new sites, but if the site definition 
contains .aspx files then these are actually read from the file system every 
time (unless customised)

Changes in ONET.xml are read from the XML file the next time you create a site.

So you are stuck if you want your existing site to make use of changes in 
ONET.xml. You will need to 'magically' export out the content from your 
existing site, then re-create the site (provision a new site) using the updated 
site definition, then 'magically' re-import it in.

'magically' - using a custom built or third party content import/export tool
Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clayton James
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:18 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Site Definition ONET.xml
Changes to the Site Definitions ONET.XML file won't be reflected in sites that 
have previously been created. Changes will only be reflected only when you 
create new sites.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using notepad or VS.Net
If these pages are modified with notepad or VS.net (not SPD) and existing sites 
haven't customised these pages using SPD then yes existing sites will take on 
these changes.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using SPD
 If the .aspx pages have been customised using SPD then they are stored in the 
content database so changes to the original files on file system won't change 
existing sites.

Cheers
CJ


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 01:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Depends what changes...changes to aspx pages will affect the existing ones.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force it to 
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is 
MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Dear All,
I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the life of 
me how this works.
If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that 
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes be 
reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate the 
sites?
Can you refresh my memory.


Cheers,
Aaron
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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Sezai KOMUR]

Reset to site definition resets customised files in the site to the site 
definition, but it doesn't 'pick up' ONET.xml changes, which are only read 
during provisioning. It resets all customised pages.

Eg.

ONET.xml contains my custom feature -




It also contains some Publishing Settings





Now if I edit the ONET.xml file, such as commenting out the MyCustomActions 
feature and change the ChromeMasterUrl setting or the WelcomePageUrl setting to 
different values.
Then do an IIS reset, and then access the /_layouts/reghost.aspx page and 
select the Reset all pages in this site to site definition version option.
My site still has my Custom Actions feature enabled and it still has the old 
ChromeMasterUrl and WelcomePageUrl it hasn't 'picked up' ONET.xml changes.


Of course if you need to make these sorts of changes, you can easily 
activate/deactivate features separately as suggested by Clayton, you can also 
manually switch the Welcome Page and the Master Page for the site in site 
settings etc.

ONET.xml is only read when you provision a new site.
Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Vranich
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:50 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

If you haven't customised the site from the Site Definition.  You can reset to 
site definition which "should" pick up the new changes. Right?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sezai KOMUR
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 3:29 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

ONET.xml is used for PROVISIONING new sites, but if the site definition 
contains .aspx files then these are actually read from the file system every 
time (unless customised)

Changes in ONET.xml are read from the XML file the next time you create a site.

So you are stuck if you want your existing site to make use of changes in 
ONET.xml. You will need to 'magically' export out the content from your 
existing site, then re-create the site (provision a new site) using the updated 
site definition, then 'magically' re-import it in.

'magically' - using a custom built or third party content import/export tool
Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clayton James
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:18 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Site Definition ONET.xml
Changes to the Site Definitions ONET.XML file won't be reflected in sites that 
have previously been created. Changes will only be reflected only when you 
create new sites.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using notepad or VS.Net
If these pages are modified with notepad or VS.net (not SPD) and existing sites 
haven't customised these pages using SPD then yes existing sites will take on 
these changes.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using SPD
 If the .aspx pages have been customised using SPD then they are stored in the 
content database so changes to the original files on file system won't change 
existing sites.

Cheers
CJ


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 01:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Depends what changes...changes to aspx pages will affect the existing ones.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodges, Kristen
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:43 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Sadly no it won't pick up the changes automatically... but you can force it to 
reset to the Site Definition on a per site basis in site settings.  This is 
MOSS 2007 I'm talking about here of course.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Saikovski
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 2:41 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Dear All,
I am having a mental blank at the moment and I can't remember for the life of 
me how this works.
If I create a custom site definition, create a new site based on that 
definition, make changes to the original site definition. Will the changes be 
reflected in my sites based on that definition, or do I need to recreate the 
sites?
Can you refresh my memory.


Cheers,
Aaron
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RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

[Lee Marriage]

Adding my support to Claytons/Sezai's approach - From (painful) experience 
coupling functionality into ONET.xml is bad news... I tend to look at the Site 
Definition as a container for the Features I want 'plugged in' for a particular 
type of site.

Now, this may be a slight diversion on the topic but thought I'd put this out 
thereJ... Something that's been troubling me for a while is the activation of 
Features with properties!

As shown below, in ONET.xml you can specify properties to pass on to the 
feature property bag on activation/deactivation etc which is all well and 
good(you can also specify properties in the feature xml file). However, the 
problem comes when you want to subsequently activate/deactivate the feature on 
a particular site. Where would the Feature get these properties from because as 
stated before ONET.xml is only read at the time you create the site?!

Is it that one needs to provide alternative functionality when using Features 
with properties? Or is there another way of activating Features with properties 
on a per site basis.

Cheers,
Lee

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sezai KOMUR
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 4:20 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Reset to site definition resets customised files in the site to the site 
definition, but it doesn't 'pick up' ONET.xml changes, which are only read 
during provisioning. It resets all customised pages.

Eg.

ONET.xml contains my custom feature -




It also contains some Publishing Settings





Now if I edit the ONET.xml file, such as commenting out the MyCustomActions 
feature and change the ChromeMasterUrl setting or the WelcomePageUrl setting to 
different values.
Then do an IIS reset, and then access the /_layouts/reghost.aspx page and 
select the Reset all pages in this site to site definition version option.
My site still has my Custom Actions feature enabled and it still has the old 
ChromeMasterUrl and WelcomePageUrl it hasn't 'picked up' ONET.xml changes.


Of course if you need to make these sorts of changes, you can easily 
activate/deactivate features separately as suggested by Clayton, you can also 
manually switch the Welcome Page and the Master Page for the site in site 
settings etc.

ONET.xml is only read when you provision a new site.
Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Vranich
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:50 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

If you haven't customised the site from the Site Definition.  You can reset to 
site definition which "should" pick up the new changes. Right?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sezai KOMUR
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 3:29 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

ONET.xml is used for PROVISIONING new sites, but if the site definition 
contains .aspx files then these are actually read from the file system every 
time (unless customised)

Changes in ONET.xml are read from the XML file the next time you create a site.

So you are stuck if you want your existing site to make use of changes in 
ONET.xml. You will need to 'magically' export out the content from your 
existing site, then re-create the site (provision a new site) using the updated 
site definition, then 'magically' re-import it in.

'magically' - using a custom built or third party content import/export tool
Sezai Kömür
Senior Developer  - BEng, BSc - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  -  
http://www.moss2007.com.au/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clayton James
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2008 1:18 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Site Definition ONET.xml
Changes to the Site Definitions ONET.XML file won't be reflected in sites that 
have previously been created. Changes will only be reflected only when you 
create new sites.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using notepad or VS.Net
If these pages are modified with notepad or VS.net (not SPD) and existing sites 
haven't customised these pages using SPD then yes existing sites will take on 
these changes.

Site Definition .aspx pages modified using SPD
 If the .aspx pages have been customised using SPD then they are stored in the 
content database so changes to the original files on file system won't change 
existing sites.

Cheers
CJ


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ishai Sagi
Sent: Thursday, 07 February 2008 01:53 PM
To: listserver@ozMOSS.com
Subject: RE: [OzMOSS] custom site definition question

Depen