Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
On 04/13/2012 12:41 PM, Ben Okopnik wrote: On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 10:10:51AM -0400, SteveW wrote: That's waay to much to think about, Beng! Besides, given the size of our boats compared to Norm's, I'm sure you couldn't fit a milk jug float into your bilge as I certainly couldn't! Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant was the general principle of removing the switch from the wet, possibly oily, etc. muck in the bilge, which solves a large number of reliability problems *and* lets you use better quality, industrial-duty switches (instead of whatever the float switch manufacturer sticks you with.) Shallow bilge? No problem: use a long lever - say, a piece of SS TIG welding rod - and solder a carburetor float (or even glue a ping-pong ball) to it. Twist a single loop into the other end of the wire, about an inch from the end, and put a screw through it and into one of your frames right above the bilge. Float rises, back end of your see-saw comes down... fairly obvious how to proceed from there, right? Bonus: if you use the after-run circuit as I'd suggested, you already have a high-gain switch in place - the MOSFET. This means that you can use a low-power switch on the above float - a standard magnetic door sensor, with a sealed reed switch. No moving parts to wear out. All that's left is using a good-quality pump - say, a Johnson, with one of those nifty run-dry neoprene impellers. There ya go, a free engineering session for your dream bilge pump. :) Ben This seems like dejavu but I recall seeing a pump demonstrated at a SSCA meeting that had a controller built in. The pump would run at a specific interval, like every 5 minutes or so and the controller would measure the current draw. If there was no load on the pump, it would turn off. If there was a load it would monitor the current and shut off when the current dropped off after a slight delay. I'm thinking of using an Arduino to build same thing. Of course I'd still have a conventional pump for backup. Sounds like a fun project. I even went so far as to pick up some 0.1 ohm resistors. The Atmega328 has a reasonable ADC on board. Now if I can just find that round tuit. Jim. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
Yes, I do get a little behind from time to time... I thought about the second switch but took it one step farther and added both the second switch, a second pump (with two check valves leading to the same discharge pipe) and an alarm to tell me when this second pump came into action. Norm S/V Bandersnatch Lying Julington Creek FL I'll be adding a high water sensor in the bilge when I get around to it this summer but the system works okay as is. Or putting it another way, close enough for Government work! S ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
That's waay to much to think about, Ben g! Besides, given the size of our boats compared to Norm's, I'm sure you couldn't fit a milk jug float into your bilge as I certainly couldn't! S Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:04 AM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 10:09:39PM -0400, SteveW wrote: As always, Ben, you come through with the correct cold logic! (LOL!!!) It's that engineering/security mindset. Have to forcibly switch it off for stuff like flirting with cute girls, etc. :) I realize it's probably totally impractical and for myself, I'd stick a check valve onto the line 6 downstream from the outflow outlet on the pump and call it a day. But coming up with a practical innovative low cost run dry pump with enough pressure to 'clear' the line to the thru-hull would be an interesting intillectual exercise for a garage tinkerer. I'm one of those always looking for a completely dry (and sparkling clean - I'm talking eat off it clean) bilge. Haven’t found the boat that could meet that criteria yet. And I'm not going to spend the $$ to find a boat built around that kind of a bilge! Well, you could borrow part of Norm's excellent idea: use something like his milk-jug float to get the switch/whatever electronics you wanted to use well away from the water and the pump. The after-run circuit would be fairly simple: when the float switch closes, it not only powers the pump but also charges a capacitor through a resistor. When the switch opens, the voltage in the capacitor turns on a transistor (a MOSFET, I suppose) that sits across the switch contacts. Eventually - the delay depends on the resistor and the capacitor that were used - the cap discharges and unlatches the transistor. Let me know if you'd like me to send you a schematic. From the mechanical end of it, though, you'd still need to figure out how you're going to get to zero water in the bilge. Strum boxes won't do it; neither will a hose cut at an angle. You'll still need that pocket - but be aware that gruck will collect there and eventually plug up whatever pickup you're using. I think you might have to go with the Pareto Principle on this one. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 10:10:51AM -0400, SteveW wrote: That's waay to much to think about, Ben g! Besides, given the size of our boats compared to Norm's, I'm sure you couldn't fit a milk jug float into your bilge as I certainly couldn't! Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant was the general principle of removing the switch from the wet, possibly oily, etc. muck in the bilge, which solves a large number of reliability problems *and* lets you use better quality, industrial-duty switches (instead of whatever the float switch manufacturer sticks you with.) Shallow bilge? No problem: use a long lever - say, a piece of SS TIG welding rod - and solder a carburetor float (or even glue a ping-pong ball) to it. Twist a single loop into the other end of the wire, about an inch from the end, and put a screw through it and into one of your frames right above the bilge. Float rises, back end of your see-saw comes down... fairly obvious how to proceed from there, right? Bonus: if you use the after-run circuit as I'd suggested, you already have a high-gain switch in place - the MOSFET. This means that you can use a low-power switch on the above float - a standard magnetic door sensor, with a sealed reed switch. No moving parts to wear out. All that's left is using a good-quality pump - say, a Johnson, with one of those nifty run-dry neoprene impellers. There ya go, a free engineering session for your dream bilge pump. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
I think you might be one or two emails behind on this, Norm grins. My concept was something powerful enough to push enough air through the hose to completely eliminate any residual water in the hose which could backflow into the sump or bilge. In a perfect world, the float switch would come on and if you were standing outside looking at the above-water thru-hull, you'd see the water come out and then a big puff of nothing-but-air. Steve Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: banders...@earthlink.net Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 11:38 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... There are lots of dry-run pumps available, most every diaphragm pump. I have one for my domestic water that has run dry for hours on occasion without harm. It will push air if given an open discharge, as mine does every time I suck a tank dry and have to switch tanks. Norm S/V Bandersnatch Lying Julington Creek FL I wonder whether anyone makes a run-dry bilge pump which can continue to run and push air through the hose. Steve W ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
Thanks, Ben. I think I'll stay with the standard set up I've got and then use the wet/dry vac if I really want to get totally anal and clean and paint the bilge g! I'll be adding a high water sensor in the bilge when I get around to it this summer but the system works okay as is. Or putting it another way, close enough for Government work! S Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:41 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 10:10:51AM -0400, SteveW wrote: That's waay to much to think about, Ben g! Besides, given the size of our boats compared to Norm's, I'm sure you couldn't fit a milk jug float into your bilge as I certainly couldn't! Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant was the general principle of removing the switch from the wet, possibly oily, etc. muck in the bilge, which solves a large number of reliability problems *and* lets you use better quality, industrial-duty switches (instead of whatever the float switch manufacturer sticks you with.) Shallow bilge? No problem: use a long lever - say, a piece of SS TIG welding rod - and solder a carburetor float (or even glue a ping-pong ball) to it. Twist a single loop into the other end of the wire, about an inch from the end, and put a screw through it and into one of your frames right above the bilge. Float rises, back end of your see-saw comes down... fairly obvious how to proceed from there, right? Bonus: if you use the after-run circuit as I'd suggested, you already have a high-gain switch in place - the MOSFET. This means that you can use a low-power switch on the above float - a standard magnetic door sensor, with a sealed reed switch. No moving parts to wear out. All that's left is using a good-quality pump - say, a Johnson, with one of those nifty run-dry neoprene impellers. There ya go, a free engineering session for your dream bilge pump. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 06:05:42PM -0400, SteveW wrote: Thanks, Ben. I think I'll stay with the standard set up I've got and then use the wet/dry vac if I really want to get totally anal and clean and paint the bilge g! Heh. That's my standard procedure, too. I'll be adding a high water sensor in the bilge when I get around to it this summer but the system works okay as is. That's on my project list as well! For some strange reason, we live-aboards tend to have stuff like that on our lists... maybe because we don't like waking up with water lapping at our toes??? Just a thought. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
live-aboards tend to have stuff like that on our lists... maybe because we don't like waking up with water lapping at our toes??? Just a thought. :) Water, no. Puppies and..oh, never mind. Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 6:56 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 06:05:42PM -0400, SteveW wrote: Thanks, Ben. I think I'll stay with the standard set up I've got and then use the wet/dry vac if I really want to get totally anal and clean and paint the bilge g! Heh. That's my standard procedure, too. I'll be adding a high water sensor in the bilge when I get around to it this summer but the system works okay as is. That's on my project list as well! For some strange reason, we live-aboards tend to have stuff like that on our lists... maybe because we don't like waking up with water lapping at our toes??? Just a thought. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
My shower sump consists of a well in the floor of the shower (all fiberglass over styrofoam) with a perforated sheet (the screen) of stainless covering it. The pump - one of those square Rule pumps - and float switch are in the sump. I like this pump because it is square and so fits the square well well, and the pump motor/impeller is easily removable for replacement without disturbing the plumbing. I clean the sump when the pump stops pumping properly and I have to go into it for service. I clean the screen whenever I notice debris (mostly hair) accumulating. Most of the trouble I have is with the float switch so I am adding a manual-off-auto switch (it's on the List). Another problem is that the sump is so small that the fall back of water returning to the sump after the pump shuts off raises the float to almost the point of turning on the pump again. A check valve (prone to fouling with hair) or larger sump (too much work) or manual switch (on the List) would be the cure for that. Norm S/V Bandersnatch Lying Julington Creek FL [Original Message] From: Lee A Licata lazilic...@gmail.com To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Date: 4/11/2012 10:41:58 AM Subject: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... Hi! Two of us live on board and from July- September last year, we took showers frequently and have used the head's sink nearly continuously from July to present. (After September, we took showers in the marina.do not think we stopped taking showers.!!) All this water goes to a 687 liter black water tank. While searching for a fresh water leak, come upon my shower sump that the head's sink and shower drain to. Was with a friend who noticed that the water inside was bluish. Admiral is away so he thought we should pop the cover and look. The smell was NOT that BAD but the water was beyond words. Used a wet dry vac to pull the water out, cleaned the screen that protected the pump, flushed some clean water thru the sump and used a brush to break free the big chunks, and closed it all back up... So, what does this list say... How often should I do this? Lee Cesme And, got the following off the 'net and thought I would ask if doing this procedure below periodically might also be helpful... Pour a 1/2 cup of baking soda down the drain followed by 1 cup of vinegar. The vinegar will react with the baking soda causing it to fizz and dissolve the hair. Allow the chemicals to combine and react together for 20 minutes. During this time, boil 6 cups of water. Pour the boiling water down the drain to flush out the baking soda and vinegar, as well as any residual hair. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:53:52 +0300, you wrote: Hi! Two of us live on board and from July- September last year, we took showers frequently and have used the head's sink nearly continuously from July to present. (After September, we took showers in the marina.do not think we stopped taking showers.!!) All this water goes to a 687 liter black water tank. While searching for a fresh water leak, come upon my shower sump that the head's sink and shower drain to. Was with a friend who noticed that the water inside was bluish. Admiral is away so he thought we should pop the cover and look. The smell was NOT that BAD but the water was beyond words. Used a wet dry vac to pull the water out, cleaned the screen that protected the pump, flushed some clean water thru the sump and used a brush to break free the big chunks, and closed it all back up... So, what does this list say... How often should I do this? Lee Cesme Our black water sumps are holding tanks - we pump out when necessary but don't scrub or anything. I don't understand why your shower water goes into a black water sump. We have a separate grey water sump. Our grey water sump is a square oil water separator box in the bilge with an automatic pump in it. (Bob fabricated this box) All the shower and sink water goes into this box and is automatically pumped out when the water reaches a set level. The oil water separator ensures that oil from the bilge is not pumped out with the soapy water. We carry 400 gallons of water and when there is just the two of us we sometimes have to shock the tanks. Normally we do this in the spring. When we do that, the Clorox water all goes into the bilge and sump and cleans it out. Other than that, we don't need to clean the bilge area. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
There's your explanation, Norm. I wonder whether anyone makes a run-dry bilge pump which can continue to run and push air through the hose. Could be a nice research project for someone with a lot of time on their hands :-) ! Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: banders...@earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 12:09 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... Steve, Wonderful to be back in touch with you! The shower sump is a foot or two below the waterline. The sump hose dumps into the galley sink drains just under the sink. The shower sump pump comes on when the Rule switch rises and pumps until the switch falls enough to shut off the pump then the water in the hose from the pump to the sink drains falls back into the shower sump. This amount of water is enough to raise the level in the sump to just below the level that will turn the pump back on. Under some conditions the pump will actually constantly cycle so I installed a temporary switch to stop that. Since the automatic switch works most of the time, I will install in a convenient location and on-off-auto switch which I consider the easiest fix. It's just not on the top List page yet. The end of the discharge hose is above the pump so the water will not drain out the discharge end when the pump stops. I cannot shorten the discharge hose. I have no above-the-waterline thru hulls except for the two diesel exhausts. Norm S/V Bandersnatch Lying Julington Creek FL Norm, I'm not sure how a manual on/off switch would solve the problem. Isn't the issue really how high the pump discharge is from wherever discharge water ends up? My thinking is that if the discharge end of the hose is sufficiently below the pump then there wouldn’t be any backflow since gravity or head pressure should completely empty the hose. I'd think the only way to eliminate the issue would be not only a run dry pump, but a pump strong enough to push sufficient air through the hose to push the remaining water completely out of the hose into whatever it goes to, either an above waterline thru-hull or a really, really deep bilge or something. S ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
Hey, Steve - On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 12:54:55PM -0400, SteveW wrote: There's your explanation, Norm. I wonder whether anyone makes a run-dry bilge pump which can continue to run and push air through the hose. I know of a number of pumps that can run dry indefinitely, but most of them are bigger than what's normally used as bilge pumps and aren't 12V. They also cost a good bit. Possibly a reasonable solution for the bigger boats, not so much for the average yacht. The key factor here seems to be that there's a very small market for this type of application - so the costs and the implementation time are going to be high. Most people just have a small pocket in the bilge, where the pump lives, and don't mind carrying the extra pint or so of water. From the tech perspective, how would such a pump know when to stop pumping? You could have an after-run circuit that would make it pump for, say, an extra 60 seconds after the float switch shut off, but adding electronics to a bilge pump just doesn't sound like a great idea - and would add even more to the cost. Could be a nice research project for someone with a lot of time on their hands :-) ! Seems like figuring out how to get around the size/power/complexity/cost issues would be the big challenge here. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
As always, Ben, you come through with the correct cold logic! (LOL!!!) I realize it's probably totally impractical and for myself, I'd stick a check valve onto the line 6 downstream from the outflow outlet on the pump and call it a day. But coming up with a practical innovative low cost run dry pump with enough pressure to 'clear' the line to the thru-hull would be an interesting intillectual exercise for a garage tinkerer. I'm one of those always looking for a completely dry (and sparkling clean - I'm talking eat off it clean) bilge. Haven’t found the boat that could meet that criteria yet. And I'm not going to spend the $$ to find a boat built around that kind of a bilge! I'll go back to looking for the Holy Grail with the rest of the Monty Python crew S Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:15 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... Hey, Steve - On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 12:54:55PM -0400, SteveW wrote: There's your explanation, Norm. I wonder whether anyone makes a run-dry bilge pump which can continue to run and push air through the hose. I know of a number of pumps that can run dry indefinitely, but most of them are bigger than what's normally used as bilge pumps and aren't 12V. They also cost a good bit. Possibly a reasonable solution for the bigger boats, not so much for the average yacht. The key factor here seems to be that there's a very small market for this type of application - so the costs and the implementation time are going to be high. Most people just have a small pocket in the bilge, where the pump lives, and don't mind carrying the extra pint or so of water. From the tech perspective, how would such a pump know when to stop pumping? You could have an after-run circuit that would make it pump for, say, an extra 60 seconds after the float switch shut off, but adding electronics to a bilge pump just doesn't sound like a great idea - and would add even more to the cost. Could be a nice research project for someone with a lot of time on their hands :-) ! Seems like figuring out how to get around the size/power/complexity/cost issues would be the big challenge here. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 10:09:39PM -0400, SteveW wrote: As always, Ben, you come through with the correct cold logic! (LOL!!!) It's that engineering/security mindset. Have to forcibly switch it off for stuff like flirting with cute girls, etc. :) I realize it's probably totally impractical and for myself, I'd stick a check valve onto the line 6 downstream from the outflow outlet on the pump and call it a day. But coming up with a practical innovative low cost run dry pump with enough pressure to 'clear' the line to the thru-hull would be an interesting intillectual exercise for a garage tinkerer. I'm one of those always looking for a completely dry (and sparkling clean - I'm talking eat off it clean) bilge. Haven’t found the boat that could meet that criteria yet. And I'm not going to spend the $$ to find a boat built around that kind of a bilge! Well, you could borrow part of Norm's excellent idea: use something like his milk-jug float to get the switch/whatever electronics you wanted to use well away from the water and the pump. The after-run circuit would be fairly simple: when the float switch closes, it not only powers the pump but also charges a capacitor through a resistor. When the switch opens, the voltage in the capacitor turns on a transistor (a MOSFET, I suppose) that sits across the switch contacts. Eventually - the delay depends on the resistor and the capacitor that were used - the cap discharges and unlatches the transistor. Let me know if you'd like me to send you a schematic. From the mechanical end of it, though, you'd still need to figure out how you're going to get to zero water in the bilge. Strum boxes won't do it; neither will a hose cut at an angle. You'll still need that pocket - but be aware that gruck will collect there and eventually plug up whatever pickup you're using. I think you might have to go with the Pareto Principle on this one. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:53:52 +0300 From: Lee A Licata lazilicata@... Subject: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... So, what does this list say... How often should I do this? I clean mine every time I clean the head in general. Mine is easy to reach and only takes a minute to keep up instead of letting it become a major job. sail fast and eat well, dave S/V Auspicious ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump...
We clean ours about once a month. -Anita Why Knot IP-37-33 Us - Austin, TX Boat - Punta Gorda, FL In a message dated 4/11/2012 11:17:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, dskoln...@gmail.com writes: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:53:52 +0300 From: Lee A Licata lazilicata@... Subject: [Liveaboard] How often do you clean your shower sump... So, what does this list say... How often should I do this? I clean mine every time I clean the head in general. Mine is easy to reach and only takes a minute to keep up instead of letting it become a major job. sail fast and eat well, dave S/V Auspicious ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
