Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: OK, so I was just being nosy - as opposed to being in the position of offering a job - and noticed Alex is: a) younger than me (makes a change!), and b) went to UMIST. Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Absolutely. It'd be terribly inconsiderate. :hides his .signature. ~~C. -- Chris Ball. Department of Computation, UMIST, England. [EMAIL PROTECTED] || http://printf.net/ finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chris Ball wrote: [ I sent this earlier on, but it doesn't seem to have gone through - I'm trying again using the address I subscribed with, but I'm sure I've used a non-subscription address before. Are postings subscriber only ..? ] Yes. postings are subscriber only - It's just the moderation fairy tries to make things appear as seemless as possible :O /J\
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad threading. Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good... Roger
Re: Good Accountants
Robin Szemeti wrote: now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and No, no, no, that's _not_ all it is. IE is a set of distributed objects that between them handle those things that you might want to do related to HTTP and the rendering of HTML and assocciated technologies. That's MUCH more than just a browser. Once IE is installed on your system it becomes relatively simple to make an excel spreadsheet where some cell has a value that is the result of an HTTP request. This is not something AFAIK that Opera or Netscape do. I think Mozilla is trying to be more like this, but I never use it so I don't know. I do know that Mozilla appears to be just as 'lightweight' as IE. The tragedy is that all these great objects and classes tend to be only accessible from inside stuff like VBA or VB or MSVC++. Maybe Perl's DCOM bindings on Win32 are robust enough now that I can use perl to script the IE objects, I don't know. Jon, who is now at a company that uses Netscape Messenger as the corporate mail client. Weep. But at least they keep ports 22 and 23 open on the firewall. Yay.
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: Well, if you're daft enough to install Turdpoke you deserve all you get. In my defence your Honour, this relates to the BL[1] period of my life and I am now a reformed character. I have worshipped at The Shrine Of The Penguin for many moons now, broken bread with Linus and I won't be going back to the cult od Gates[2]. [1] Before Linux [2] Well .. unless the client is paying .. hey .. I'am a contractor after all .. -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:41:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: [ and don't even ask me about the time Demon distributed some pox ridden disk with IE4.1 on it ..'err I just installed the latest version of Turnpike and seem to have inherited IE4 .. how do I get rid of it as its screwed my desktop and folders' 'easy sir just do remove-programs etc' 'err hello .. Ive done that and my desktop is *still* screwed .. my folders appear as some sort of poxy browser with a stop button and back-forward buttons and they didn't before and I dont want them' ' err sorry sir .. it does some things to the kernel that can't be removed' now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and unnecessarily predjudiced against it. ] Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. -Dom (always preferred green anyway)
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:23:16AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Robin Szemeti wrote: now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and No, no, no, that's _not_ all it is. IE is a set of distributed objects that between them handle those things that you might want to do related to HTTP and the rendering of HTML and assocciated technologies. That's MUCH more than just a browser. Once IE is installed on your system it becomes relatively simple to make an excel spreadsheet where some cell has a value that is the result of an HTTP request. This is not something AFAIK that Opera or Netscape do. I think Mozilla is trying to be more like this, but I never use it so I don't know. I do know that Mozilla appears to be just as 'lightweight' as IE. The tragedy is that all these great objects and classes tend to be only accessible from inside stuff like VBA or VB or MSVC++. Maybe Perl's DCOM bindings on Win32 are robust enough now that I can use perl to script the IE objects, I don't know. It's pretty easily manageable from within Python, last time that I looked, and it should work pretty well inside Perl, too. Mozilla will be nice and able to do all this, it's basically reimplemented COM as XPCOM for its own use. Which is all very well and good, but there's no easy way (yet) to get at XPCOM from outside of mozilla. ActiveState are working on this, though and there was a recent announcement about Perl/Python XPCOM integration being available as a preview release. Probably worth checking out... -Dom
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. umm .. I went for the 'format from the ground up' method and took it as an opportunity to rod the thing out ;) -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:21:35AM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad threading. Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good... Junkbuster++ I don't use it for busting junk, but because I can quickly and easily change its settings with a shell script, instead of having to fuck around in Netscape's menus to change proxies. I really just use it as a mere proxy, either going straight to the rest of the net or via ssh port forwarding to another proxy elsewhere. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lucy McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Given the number of people I've seen from Manchester Uni at the technical meetings, probably not... -- rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/ Bsc(Hons) Computer Science University of Manchester Graduated 1995
Re: Good Accountants
From: Chris Heathcote [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 27/4/01 11:08 am, Rob Partington wrote: about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Given the number of people I've seen from Manchester Uni at the technical meetings, probably not... Y'see I was a Salford problem kid... I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Shame about the footballs teams though. Barbie.
Re: Good Accountants
[ I sent this earlier on, but it doesn't seem to have gone through - I'm trying again using the address I subscribed with, but I'm sure I've used a non-subscription address before. Are postings subscriber only ..? ] On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: OK, so I was just being nosy - as opposed to being in the position of offering a job - and noticed Alex is: a) younger than me (makes a change!), and b) went to UMIST. Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Absolutely. It'd be terribly inconsiderate. :hides his .signature. ~C. -- Chris Ball. Department of Computation, UMIST, England. [EMAIL PROTECTED] || http://printf.net/ finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have dragged it on for a few more... Martin
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have dragged it on for a few more... umm 94?95? -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:59:53PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have dragged it on for a few more... umm 94?95? More likely late 96 early 97. -Dom
Re: Good Accountants
Chris Ball wrote: Are postings subscriber only ..? ] As far as I know, yes; Jonathan Stowe has to hand-approve non-subscriber postings for them to make it to the list. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Good Accountants
Philip Newton wrote: Chris Ball wrote: Are postings subscriber only ..? ] Subscriber not even, more like. I bet this email never makes it to the list for a start. I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Philip Newton wrote: Chris Ball wrote: Are postings subscriber only ..? ] Subscriber not even, more like. I bet this email never makes it to the list for a start. I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Well, it is based on Python, which might cause a few stirrings around here... -Dom
Re: Good Accountants
Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Well, it is based on Python, which might cause a few stirrings around here... You think the Perl community is proud of the majordomo code? Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Given that I didn't learn perl until after I graduated, and Buffy isn't Manc-specific, then probably :-) Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy probably won't interest most of london.pm Alex -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Good Accountants (?)
Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy probably won't interest most of london.pm How can you fall over doing one step forward one step backward with your arms out for balance? Or was it the one where you hold you arms over your head in an impression of someone trying to get out of a too-tight jumper in slow motion? -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote: I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Ahem. I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-) dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Oh, the irony. - Abigail
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Actually that's my fault I said I'd look into it about a year ago (or so it feels). I'll do it this weekend. As to whether penderel gets used for this mailing list is something someone else would decide... Paul
Re: Good Accountants
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that don't use IE - that's kinda silly. On a random band's site that number is more like, per hits: 3959719 IE 662895 Netscape 10 the rest It's a pity, but it's life. (And Barclays lets you use NS) -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: Good Accountants
Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: well .. it *does* handle them .. but ,,, errr .. sort of non cascading IYSWIM ... No it doesn't. It has almost no clue about stylesheets at all. Have you ever developed a CSS site for Netscape? And got it to work in anything like a sensible timeframe? Yes, I did. It needs tuning but it's pretty much there. *snip* Hmm, IE does stop almost immediately. THe Mac version in OS X requires a couple of presses but it's pretty well behaved otherwise (when it's not crashing or preventing me from copying the address line to the clipboard, bah). I've actually had more trouble getting Netscape to stop, YMMV, etc. NS's DNS handling is the suckiest. Blocks bloody everything. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: Good Accountants (?)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:15PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: How can you fall over doing one step forward one step backward with your arms out for balance? Or was it the one where you hold you arms over your head in an impression of someone trying to get out of a too-tight jumper in slow motion? Actually, in Manchester, one traditionally dances to the Sisters either with a four-way country reel, or the Can-Can. Sobriety is not an option :-) Alex -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:55:06PM -0400, Alex Page wrote: Blimey, there's an Oxford perl mongers! You mean I'm not the only perl coder in this city?!? No. -- I find that anthropomorphism really doesn't help me with a place full of bugs. -- Megahal (trained on asr), 1998-11-06
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:00:40PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:55:06PM -0400, Alex Page wrote: Blimey, there's an Oxford perl mongers! You mean I'm not the only perl coder in this city?!? No. By which I mean, yes, you're not. And, of course, we've got Malcolm Beattie, who ranks as one of Perl's minor dieties. -- Will your long-winded speeches never end? What ails you that you keep on arguing? -- Job 16:3
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:26:04PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote: I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Ahem. I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-) Yes yes, that's OK. We'll permit the colonials to have their little delusions. We all know that The Bronze is the centre of the universe. -- David Cantrell | Not particularly a Biffy fan at all | Gimme Willow Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
Where do you live? DJ Adams recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see them last night for the first time. They are going to set up my new company for me too. They like IT contractors, and the partner I met with talked to me for about 30 minutes on ways to avoid IR35 :-) Very professional, I like them so far. Based in Kingston and have other offices around Surrey. On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account? -- Robert - Original Message - From: Gareth Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 April 2001 09:09 Subject: Good Accountants Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited to much larger companies. Thanks Gareth Harper
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: Where do you live? DJ Adams recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see them last night for the first time. They are going to set up my new company for me too. They like IT contractors, and the partner I met with talked to me for about 30 minutes on ways to avoid IR35 :-) sound like a 'contractors accountant' .. mine (Lowson Ward in Birmingham) do nothing other than accounting for contractors and know all the relevant bits. Very often a 'general' accountant doesn't seem to know all the little wrinkles that one who specialises in contractors does. Well worth getting the right sort. Very professional, I like them so far. Based in Kingston and have other offices around Surrey. On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account? Flemings Premier Banking 01708 713317 basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone service and all that stuff. most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to. I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Gareth Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 April 2001 09:09 Subject: Good Accountants Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited to much larger companies. Thanks Gareth Harper -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
Robin Szemeti wrote: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: Where do you live? DJ Adams recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see them last night for the first time. They are going to set up my new company for me too. They like IT contractors, and the partner I met with talked to me for about 30 minutes on ways to avoid IR35 :-) sound like a 'contractors accountant' .. mine (Lowson Ward in Birmingham) do nothing other than accounting for contractors and know all the relevant bits. Very often a 'general' accountant doesn't seem to know all the little wrinkles that one who specialises in contractors does. Well worth getting the right sort. Very professional, I like them so far. Based in Kingston and have other offices around Surrey. On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account? Flemings Premier Banking 01708 713317 basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone service and all that stuff. most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to. I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors. +1 the service I've found to be excellent, they call you sir on the phone and sound like they mean it, quite shocking these day's. Greg -- Robert - Original Message - From: Gareth Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 April 2001 09:09 Subject: Good Accountants Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited to much larger companies. Thanks Gareth Harper -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
Robert Shiels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account? Oxymoron. I went with Barclays because they gave 12 months free banking and could group the online banking with my personal accounts. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: Good Accountants
From: Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account? Flemings Premier Banking 01708 713317 basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone service and all that stuff. most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to. I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors. Interesting. Flemings was actually recommended to me by Menzies last night. So my accountant is clueful on this too, which is encouraging. Thanks. /Robert
Online Banking (was: Re: Good Accountants)
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:49:34AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: I went with Barclays because they gave 12 months free banking and could group the online banking with my personal accounts. On a side issue, do you know of any online banks that allow personal accounts to download historical data? I spent quite a while on Saturday writing scripts to download statement data from lloydstsb.co.uk and then discovered that it only went back about 2 statements. Upon ring them up, I was told that they were planning to introduce a feature that would let you go back 4 or 5 statements or something equally pathetic. *sigh*. -Dom
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: Flemings Premier Banking 01708 713317 basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone service and all that stuff. most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to. I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors. +1 the service I've found to be excellent, they call you sir on the phone and sound like they mean it, quite shocking these day's. yup .. unlike most banks they seem to reallise that they are privileged to be looking after your money for you. http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it whatsoever. If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such manifest incompetence. well apart from a crap website, they are a good very bank ... personally I'd rather they put their efforts into banking rather than web design ... its just a fad after all. Egg: have a good website .. and service at least as good as oh .. I dunno .. BT?. .. easily. The big diffrence is: when they do eventually answer the phone they charge you 2.50. BT at least try and sell you something before slapping a charge on. -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:39:45AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: Flemings Premier Banking 01708 713317 God help you if you put your company into dormancy however. Then they get really arsey since you're not depositing huge amounts of cash into it any more. They unilaterally decided to close my account a few months back effectively ruining my health insurance policy and delaying payments to my accountants. The only way (at least with HSBC) of setting up a new business acct is from a director or company secretary so I have had to find one of those and send form 288a flying across the atlantic. flemings--, Paul
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:52:59PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it whatsoever. If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such manifest incompetence. And [EMAIL PROTECTED] bounces. Oh dear. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:13:50PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it whatsoever. If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such manifest incompetence. well apart from a crap website, they are a good very bank ... personally I'd rather they put their efforts into banking rather than web design ... its just a fad after all. Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that don't use IE - that's kinda silly. And unprofessional. Sure, the bank no doubt subcontracted the work to some numijahors, but that they accepted and launched it like that does raise concerns about their quality control. I did go on to look at it using IE, for I know that first impressions can be misleading, and the site still sucks - it's hard to find any way of getting feedback to them electronically, for example - but if using IE, it doesn't suck much more than any other corporate site. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:02:48PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that don't use IE - that's kinda silly. And unprofessional. Sure, the bank Anything that displays in IE will display fine in Opera. Mozilla is OK. Netscape 4.x deserves to have sites intentionally break it (ooh, tricky, miss a closing table tag!) because it is shit must die. I did go on to look at it using IE, for I know that first impressions can I share your pain. It has this utterly obnoxious browser-resize to full screen even though it's designed for a fixed size viewing area! Retards! Try http://www.hsbc.co.uk/ Paul
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: Anything that displays in IE will display fine in Opera. Mozilla is OK. Netscape 4.x deserves to have sites intentionally break it (ooh, tricky, miss a closing table tag!) because it is shit must die. depends dunnit ... on the one hand i _almost_ like IE as it displays images as they load and doesn't wait unitl it has em all b4 showing you the page (unless width and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7 OTOH its so far from being standards compliant it must die. its bloatware taken to new levels. what is it? 75mb+ .. for a web browser .. ? and thats even though theyve hidden half of it in whats laughingly reffered to as a kernel! I like nutscrape for setting stuff up with because it is a bit picky ... it does fall over on errors and thats what you want for quick 'almost right on the first pass' stuff .. then you feed it through validator.w3c.org and its done innit. What would be nice would be a nutscrape-alike that put colored blobs or somesuch where errors were.. with hyperlinks to details of the error ... ;) Back in the days when I had a windows PC I had Opera 3.x .. it was great .. light and fast, tables were a 'bit odd' but I liked it. I tried the Linux beta but it had a todo list that went 'doesn't display text, or pictures. backround doesn't work yet. Can't load from network' or some equally trivial things .. that was 1 year ago .. maybe its time to revisit. -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:04:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: depends dunnit ... Not really, Netscape 4.x sucks. No two ways about it. and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7 OTOH its so far from being You mean it handles them at all. CSS in Netscape is so bad as to be a joke. I mean, come on -- this is a *1996* invention!! One of the reasons the web still sucks is 'cos of f**king Netscape and no-CSS. standards compliant it must die. its bloatware taken to new levels. what is it? 75mb+ .. for a web browser .. ? No, silly, it's part of the operating system :-) But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue? That's about 20p. I like nutscrape for setting stuff up with because it is a bit picky ... Use a validator rather than a broken HTML parser. it does fall over on errors and thats what you want for quick 'almost right on the first pass' stuff .. then you feed it through No you don't. You want a proper validator built right into your editor (see: HomeSite) nutscrape-alike that put colored blobs or somesuch where errors were.. with hyperlinks to details of the error ... ;) See above :-) Linux beta but it had a todo list that went 'doesn't display text, or pictures. backround doesn't work yet. Can't load from network' or some equally trivial things .. that was 1 year ago .. maybe its time to revisit. It's actually usable now I hear. Opera on Windows is great! Paul
Re: Good Accountants
At 10:04 PM 2001.04.26 +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: What would be nice would be a nutscrape-alike that put colored blobs or somesuch where errors were.. with hyperlinks to details of the error ... ;) Starting point: Using CSS as a Diagnostic Tool http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/07/21/magazine/css_tool.html [...] stylesheets can be used to: · See exactly how tables are structured · Figure out how table cells are aligned · Quickly see which images on a page still need ALT text · Point out where you still have FONT tags lurking in your markup · Expose the overall page structure 'course you need a newer browser for it to work as advertised, but it seems to me like a clever solution to the problem... -- Chris Devers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:20:35PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue?
That's about 20p.
Where do you get sensible disk (including backup) that cheap? We'd all
like to know...
Sorry, my mistake, 14p. 80GB for $216 + $2 for a hacksaw. Cut into
a little over a thousand pieces. Hand out at parties.
You backup your copy of IE? LOL
Ghost?
*I* don't have IE.
MBM
--
Matthew Byng-Maddick [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 20 8980 5714 (Home)
http://colondot.net/ +44 7956 613942 (Mobile)
perl -e '$i=sub{length($_[0])-1};$_= \n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ ;while(
$i($_)){print unpack xx$i($_).a1, $_ ;$_=unpacka.$i($_),$_}print'
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: well .. it *does* handle them .. but ,,, errr .. sort of non cascading IYSWIM ... No it doesn't. It has almost no clue about stylesheets at all. Have you ever developed a CSS site for Netscape? And got it to work in anything like a sensible timeframe? I don't care tuppence about 75mb of disc space .. its the 'half of all your available memory and most of your processor' that does my head in. You're right, that rampant hyperbole is really convincing me :-) None of my IE sessions are consuming more than a 1% of CPU. When they do use CPU it's hardly for long. Why are people complaining about RAM CPU? It is *sooo* cheap and will get cheaper faster yet. We are talking about displaying a few words and pictures on a screen not Right, and compilers are just turn .c files into something you can run. How hard can that be? bloated. Opera proves that. I do not require my web browser to do any of the following: run active-X, Flash, any form of streaming video. it It doesn't, that's what plugins are for. It just do happens that millions of people like to watch Flash movies so they come pre-bundled. I mean, why draw the line there? Toss out images and other ghastly things like ability to work with handicapped people, etc, etc. should never, ever attempt to download anything on its own, install anything or upgrade anything. ever. at all. ever. When I hit the stop button it is because i want it to stop. dead. now. I do not want it to continue what its doing because it thinks it knows best. it must stop Hmm, IE does stop almost immediately. THe Mac version in OS X requires a couple of presses but it's pretty well behaved otherwise (when it's not crashing or preventing me from copying the address line to the clipboard, bah). I've actually had more trouble getting Netscape to stop, YMMV, etc. loading the page NOW. IE fails many if not all of those test. I'm a bit of a browser luddite im afraid. http://lynx.browser.org/ Paul
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:04:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: on the one hand i _almost_ like IE as it displays images as they load and doesn't wait unitl it has em all b4 showing you the page (unless width and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7 Yeah, I was redoing my CV the other day (it's at http://www.cpio.org/~grimoire/cv.html if you want to employ me...) and IE handled things very nicely. I'm not exactly using complicated CSS, but the fact that it worked at all surprised me. The one thing that's really bugging me is the lack of support for paged media - I've got a very simple rule that says that you should avoid page-breaking after the employer's name / details (so you get at least one paragraph of the job description in), but have yet to find a browser that works for this. Alex -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it whatsoever. If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such manifest incompetence. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:04:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: depends dunnit ... Not really, Netscape 4.x sucks. No two ways about it. and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7 OTOH its so far from being You mean it handles them at all. CSS in Netscape is so bad as to be a joke. I mean, come on -- this is a *1996* invention!! One of the reasons the web still sucks is 'cos of f**king Netscape and no-CSS. well .. it *does* handle them .. but ,,, errr .. sort of non cascading IYSWIM ... But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue? That's about 20p. I don't care tuppence about 75mb of disc space .. its the 'half of all your available memory and most of your processor' that does my head in. We are talking about displaying a few words and pictures on a screen not running a spacecraft. Web browsers do NOT need to be that big and bloated. Opera proves that. I do not require my web browser to do any of the following: run active-X, Flash, any form of streaming video. it should never, ever attempt to download anything on its own, install anything or upgrade anything. ever. at all. ever. When I hit the stop button it is because i want it to stop. dead. now. I do not want it to continue what its doing because it thinks it knows best. it must stop loading the page NOW. IE fails many if not all of those test. I'm a bit of a browser luddite im afraid. I like nutscrape for setting stuff up with because it is a bit picky ... Use a validator rather than a broken HTML parser. Its not borken .. just 'picky' ;) it does fall over on errors and thats what you want for quick 'almost right on the first pass' stuff .. then you feed it through No you don't. You want a proper validator built right into your editor (see: HomeSite) umm .. ok .. i'll look It's actually usable now I hear. Opera on Windows is great! opera on windows was the one thing that made windows even vaguely tolerable .. but not that tolerable. actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad threading. -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
