Year 2K2 problem

[Paul Makepeace]

Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,

http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html

Upper right corner. Oh, man.

P (viewing from Konqueror, fwiw)

Re: TPJ

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Lucy McWilliam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hum.  Not everything is about making money.  

Unless you're not making any.

-- 
David Hodgkinson, Wizard for Hirehttp://www.davehodgkinson.com
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
Deep Purple Family Tree news  http://www.slashrock.com
   Interim Technical Director, Web Architecture Consultant for hire

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Newton, Philip]

Paul Makepeace wrote:
> Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> 
> http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> 
> Upper right corner. Oh, man.

What is it you see? I saw nothing (NS with JS off), 2002 (MSIE 5.5), and
2002 (NS 4.73 with JS on). Did you see 19102 or something, maybe?

Looks like it's probably this bit of code:

var year=time.getYear();

if ((navigator.appName == "Microsoft Internet Explorer") && (year <
2000))  
year="19" + year;
if (navigator.appName == "Netscape")
year=1900 + year;
document.write(lmonth + " ");
document.write(date + ", " + year);

>From what I recall, it was a poorly documented part of JavaScript, with
Microsoft and Netscape returning different values. IIRC, Microsoft returns
..., 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001, 2002, ... while Netscape returns ..., 97, 98,
99, 100, 101, 102, ... . I also seem to recall that there is another
interface to fetch the date which is better documented and which is
recommended, but am too lazy to go and look it up.

Whether including the current date on a web page in this manner serves any
useful purpose or not is beyond the scope of this discussions.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Paul Makepeace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> 
> http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> 
> Upper right corner. Oh, man.

January 16, 2002


-- 
David Hodgkinson, Wizard for Hirehttp://www.davehodgkinson.com
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
Deep Purple Family Tree news  http://www.slashrock.com
   Interim Technical Director, Web Architecture Consultant for hire

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Newton, Philip]

Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> January 16, 2002

I see "January 15, 2002" on all three browsers I tried it out with.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Barbie]

From: "Dave Hodgkinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Paul Makepeace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> >
> > http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> >
> > Upper right corner. Oh, man.
>
> January 16, 2002

Wow, that's impressive. Can you tell me what will be the winner in 4.15 a
Newmarket too?

Barbie

Re: Buffy series 6 first episode video

[Mark Fowler]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Chris Carline wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 12:51:53PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
> > [2] Tivo doesn't work with cable
> Works with my cable (NTL). What cable do you have?

Telewest digital.

Oh, then I have to get round to watching the episodes before my Tivo fills 
up too.  (Yes, I have been known to be as disorganised as that)

Later.

Mark.

-- 
s''  Mark Fowler London.pm   Bath.pm
 http://www.twoshortplanks.com/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t->Tputs(cl);for$w(split/  +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t->Tgoto(cm,$_,$y)." $w";select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Steve Rushe]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:34:21AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> 
> http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> 
> Upper right corner. Oh, man.

Well I see what you're on about, so you're not alone!

JanuaryÊ15,Ê3902 (on Omniweb 4.0.6)

Steve

-- 
Steve Rushe - www.deeden.co.uk

Dotcom Optionaire

Theatre tickets available

[Simon Wilcox]

I have 4 spare tickets for tonights performance of A Day in the Death of
Joe Egg.

If anyone is interested, please let me know.

Time:   7:30pm
Venue:  Comedy Theatre, 6 Panton Street, SW1
Cost:   £22.50 (group rate reduced from £32.50)

Simon.

-- 
"I demand to have some booze"

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Tom Insam]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:23:15AM +0100, Newton, Philip wrote:
> Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> > 
> > http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> > 
> > Upper right corner. Oh, man.
> 
> What is it you see? I saw nothing (NS with JS off), 2002 (MSIE 5.5), and
> 2002 (NS 4.73 with JS on). Did you see 19102 or something, maybe?

Galeon (well, mozilla really, I guess) gets the year right, but thinks it's
tomorrow...

-- 
I went in2 the classroom and B-gan to chek that all the softwear I had
orderd was on the copmuters. It wasnt. So I had 2 install web swervers and
SQL databasses on ten copmuters in the 1 hour B4 the class arived. (CURSE
SPIT MURDER DACKA-DACKA-FOOM!!!)  --  molesworth the Teecher, Charlie Stross

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Andy Williams]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Steve Rushe wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:34:21AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> >
> > http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> >
> > Upper right corner. Oh, man.
>
> Well I see what you're on about, so you're not alone!
>
> JanuaryÊ15,Ê3902 (on Omniweb 4.0.6)
>
> Steve
>
I get
January 15,102
on Opera 5.02

Andy

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[the hatter]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Steve Rushe wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:34:21AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> > 
> > http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> > 
> > Upper right corner. Oh, man.
> 
> Well I see what you're on about, so you're not alone!
> 
> JanuaryÊ15,Ê3902 (on Omniweb 4.0.6)


And in opera I get "January 15, 102"



the hatter

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Newton, Philip]

Steve Rushe wrote:
> JanuaryÊ15,Ê3902 (on Omniweb 4.0.6)

OK, I found something:

http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/js/client/jsref/date.htm#1194138

This says that JavaScript 1.3 and above return (year - 1900) in all cases,
while JavaScript 1.2 and below had the ..., 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001, 2002,
... behaviour.

It also notes that the method is "deprecated" in JS 1.3 and suggests using
getFullYear instead.

So your browser assumes that if you are "Netscape", then you have at least
JS 1.3 (giving 102, to which it adds 1900), and if you aren't, that you have
at most JS 1.2 (giving 2002, which it keeps as-is).

I guess it's a case of "didn't RTFM" -- either the chap who coded that bit
of JavaScript or the implementor of the JS in the browser you used?

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: warning trace.

[Mark Fowler]

On 14 Jan 2002, Dominic Mitchell wrote:

> Possibly.  From Carp(3):
> 
> perl -MCarp=verbose script.pl
> 
> Should enable backtraces on carp/croak/cluck.  Assuming
> File::Spec::Unix uses them instead of plain old warn...

It's a perl warning (note lower case) that's throwing the warning not 
anything in File::Spec::Unix.  I'd already tried this first too ;-)  
 
> Another alternative is to install an __WARN__ handler which will print
> tha backtrace for you using caller().  Make sure it gets installed
> early, mind.

I tried this suggestion.  I can't seem to get caller to work from the
__WARN__ signal - I don't think it's running on the same stack.

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Robin Houston wrote:

> use Carp;
> BEGIN { *CORE::GLOBAL::warn = \&Carp::cluck }

Gave this a shot.

>From what I can tell, perl (note lower case) doesn't use warn() for 
warnings.  Also, this looks like it could get very messy if you call warn 
with a blessed reference, as my understanding is cluck will then try and 
call the core warn function... (note, I haven't tried this, but reading 
the documentation...)

Five minutes ago Richard Clamp wrote:

> $SIG{__WARN__} = sub { use diagnostics; die }; 

Ooh, now this works.  Cool.  Produces output that looks like

Died at diag.pl line 6 (#1)

(F) You passed die() an empty string (the equivalent of die "") or
you called it with no args and both $@ and $_ were empty.

Uncaught exception from user code:
Died at diag.pl line 6.
main::__ANON__('Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) at 
diag.pl line ...') called at diag.pl line 12
main::foo(undef, 'my', 'dirs') called at diag.pl line 14

Nice.  

Later.

Mark.

-- 
s''  Mark Fowler London.pm   Bath.pm
 http://www.twoshortplanks.com/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t->Tputs(cl);for$w(split/  +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t->Tgoto(cm,$_,$y)." $w";select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}

Re: TPJ

[Simon Wistow]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 07:37:31PM +, Jonathan Stowe said:
> As a complete aside, does anyone know how to determine which are new
> modules rather than just new releases from the stuff that gets pumped
> out by PAUSE and CPAN ? 

Get a list of new module releases and either

1. without having updated your 0\d-{whatever}.txt.gz since
   the last time you ran the script check to see if the
   module's in that. If it's not then it's new.

2. Foreach module go to the authors directory on $CPAN_MIRROR
   and then check to see if there are previosu versions.


There may be easier ways.

See http://www.twoshortplanks.com/simon/perl/cpanscore.html for horrid
02package.details munging.


Simon

BCS members?

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Given that codix was packed to the gunnels at the last meet, I was
thinking that a Large Company might be worth approaching since they'd
have theatres and and equipment stuff that could be used.

IBM sprang to mind. I consulted an ex-IBM greybeard and he reckoned
that all you needed was an IBM-er with BCS connections and they'd play
ball.

Anyone fit, or know anyone who fits, that description?

We could block book the Wheel too.

Anyone?

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Struan Donald]

* at 15/01 11:58 + robin szemeti said:
> 
> A 7-Page Interpretive Report created for your unique type. Simple to take 
> 93-question test online in the privacy of your home or office. Results 
> typically within 48 hours. Report in Adobe .pdf format. 

93 questions? they have enough trouble getting people to fill out the
census even with the threat of a fine and that has nothing like 93
questions. who on earth is going to fill out a 93 question online form
in the hope of getting back some useless and almost certainly
fundamentally flawed[1] personality description?

s

[1] i seem to recall that most of these thing display a large degree
of cultural bias.

Threads availability and support

[Ivor Williams]

Hi there,

Anyone know what stage the threads work is at?

CPAN lists perl threads as a "big project", and I gather that some
_experimental_ stuff went into 5.6.1.

Anyone know what date and/or release this is targetted towards?

Ivor Williams
Sopra Mentor Consultant
LIFFE Core Systems Development
Extn: 2436   Mobile: 07752 234832



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RE: Year 2K2 problem

[Ivor Williams]

* at 15/01 11:58 + robin szemeti said:
> 
> A 7-Page Interpretive Report created for your unique type. Simple to take 
> 93-question test online in the privacy of your home or office. Results 
> typically within 48 hours. Report in Adobe .pdf format. 

Anybody curious enough might like to try the "Enneagram test" based on 9
personality types.

Try http://www.duniho.com/fergus/enneagram/test/ for a test with 28
questions in a proper web app that gives you instant results.

Ivor.


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modification, and/or distribution of this email may be unlawful. If you 
have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately 
and delete it from your system. The views expressed in this message 
do not necessarily reflect those of LIFFE (Holdings) Plc or any of its 
subsidiary companies.
---

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[the hatter]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Newton, Philip wrote:

> This says that JavaScript 1.3 and above return (year - 1900) in all cases,
> while JavaScript 1.2 and below had the ..., 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001, 2002,
> ... behaviour.

That would make opera cleverer than I thought - if change my 'identify as'
between opera/ns/ie I get the full range of years (102, 2002, 19102)
whereas I'd thought that would only affect the headers sent to the server,
not the data that javascript works from and how opera itself renders
pages.


the hatter

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Ivor Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Try http://www.duniho.com/fergus/enneagram/test/ for a test with 28
> questions in a proper web app that gives you instant results.

Got me pegged.


-- 
David Hodgkinson, Wizard for Hirehttp://www.davehodgkinson.com
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
Deep Purple Family Tree news  http://www.slashrock.com
   Interim Technical Director, Web Architecture Consultant for hire

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Natalie Ford]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:58:24AM +, robin szemeti wrote:
> jan 15 102 in konqueror

sounds like a konqueror bug, then.  :/

-- 
Natalie Ford .. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

OT perl question

[nemesis]

Anyone know of a way of telling whether a perl script was called as a 
CGI (via the apache webserver) or directly (as in as a cron script or 
command line)?

Will.

-- 
*claw claw* *fang*
*shred* *rip* *ad hominem* *slash*
(more attacks will require consultancy fees.)
  -Nix.

penderel

[Greg McCarroll]

So what is the status of new membership application for Penderel? How
much are we charging these days? It seems to me that we don't have
that large of a % of the users on this mailing list using the machine,
should we have a Grade B account for people on a budget, perhaps they
could be quota'd and not be allowed to run daemon processes.

Thoughts?

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: OT perl question

[Chris Devers]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, nemesis wrote:

> Anyone know of a way of telling whether a perl script was called as a
> CGI (via the apache webserver) or directly (as in as a cron script or
> command line)? 

Take a look at %ENV. I'm guessing that $ENV{'SERVER_NAME'} et al won't be
set when running as a cron job, but will be under cgi. Just try it out and
pick an environment variable that seems reliable; SERVER* seems likely to
me.

-- 
Chris Devers
sig here

RE: [OT] Wireless Networking

[Richard Clyne]

I just thought that I'd give a followup in case anyone is interested.

(if not - you get it anyway!)

I bought a Netgear MR314 Router.  Reviews seemed to say it had a few
limitations compared to other boxes, but they seem to cost a lot more.
At 125 GBP (+VAT) I'll accept limitations.  Now comes the real work as I
try to get all the systems to talk to each other.

Eventually I'd like to see if there are other 802.11b users in the High
Wycombe/Hazlemere area to look at how well a community net could work in
a hilly area.

Also, I found that Smoothwall has forked to a project called IPCop.
IPCop seems to actively promote the GPL side, so it'll be interesting to
see which project moves forward better.  I'm trying IPCop at the moment.

Thanks for all the help,
Richard

> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Clyne 
> Sent: 08 January 2002 10:44
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  [OT] Wireless Networking
> 
> I am just about to purchase some 802.11b bits to link my home network
> to my iPaq (+other bits in the future)  The iPaq will be running WinCE
> or Linux (I keep changing my mind over what to run) and will need a
> PCMCIA card.  I am thinking that I'd prefer a basic access point
> rather than a card in a PC.  At the moment I'm looking at the Netgear
> range.  Any comments about Netgear vs other manufacturers, or
> suggestions on a good place to buy the bits?
> Thanks
> Richard
> Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam
> possit materiari?
> 
> 

Re: OT perl question

[Struan Donald]

* at 15/01 15:21 + nemesis said:
> 
> Anyone know of a way of telling whether a perl script was called as a 
> CGI (via the apache webserver) or directly (as in as a cron script or 
> command line)?

will be a whole load of exciting CGI type things in %ENV if it's a cgi
call so you could test for those.

s

Re: OT perl question

[Tommie M. Jones]

use getpwnam to find out who the user is.


http://www.atlantageek.com
Get inside Atlanta's Tech scene

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, nemesis wrote:

>
> Anyone know of a way of telling whether a perl script was called as a
> CGI (via the apache webserver) or directly (as in as a cron script or
> command line)?
>
> Will.
>
> --
> *claw claw* *fang*
> *shred* *rip* *ad hominem* *slash*
> (more attacks will require consultancy fees.)
>   -Nix.
>
>
>

Re: OT perl question

[Dominic Mitchell]

nemesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Anyone know of a way of telling whether a perl script was called as a
> CGI (via the apache webserver) or directly (as in as a cron script or
> command line)?

if (exists $ENV{SERVER_NAME}) {
print "I'm a cgi (probably)\n";
} else {
print "I don't appear to be a cgi\n";
}

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |

Re: OT perl question

[David Cantrell]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:26:42PM +, Struan Donald wrote:
> * at 15/01 15:21 + nemesis said:
> > Anyone know of a way of telling whether a perl script was called as a 
> > CGI (via the apache webserver) or directly (as in as a cron script or 
> > command line)?
> will be a whole load of exciting CGI type things in %ENV if it's a cgi
> call so you could test for those.

That may break if the environment happens to look like a CGI.  Which may, of
course, be what you want to happen.  A more reliable method would be to
detect whether you have a terminal or not.

In C, you want isatty(3).  In perl, try stat()ing STDIN.  My very quick
tests show me that the _rdev_ field changes from 34835 when STDIN is a
terminal to 0 when stdin is a pipe.  Don't rely on those numbers being
portable though.  There might be something on CPAN which wraps this up
all nice n' neat for you.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Some people, when confronted with a problem, think ``I know, I'll use
  regular expressions.'' Now they have two problems.-- jwz

Re: OT perl question

[nemesis]

Dominic Mitchell wrote:

> nemesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> 
>>Anyone know of a way of telling whether a perl script was called as a
>>CGI (via the apache webserver) or directly (as in as a cron script or
>>command line)?
>>
> 
> if (exists $ENV{SERVER_NAME}) {
> print "I'm a cgi (probably)\n";
> } else {
> print "I don't appear to be a cgi\n";
> }


Thanks to everyone who helped.  I will dump all the $ENV variable see 
what I can see in the different cases.

Will.





-- 
*claw claw* *fang*
*shred* *rip* *ad hominem* *slash*
(more attacks will require consultancy fees.)
  -Nix.

Re: OT perl question

[Robin Houston]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 04:06:40PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> In C, you want isatty(3).  In perl, try stat()ing STDIN.

Or just use:

  if (-t) { ...}

Pretty unreliable though - what if you used it in a pipe?  I think the
environment is a better way to go. It's actually pretty useful that
you can then simulate "CGI mode" on the command line for testing.

 .robin.

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Chris Benson]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:34:21AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> 
> http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> 
> Upper right corner. Oh, man.
> 
> P (viewing from Konqueror, fwiw)

January 15, 102

Opera 6.0 Technology Preview 2
-- 
Chris Benson

Re: Guns and 'puters was Re: Wingate was Re: black hat hackers

[anthony . fisher]

> whereas a .303 rifle may only cause slight bruising/annoyance.

Have you ever *held* a .303 rifle?

Tony

--
Anthony Fisher, Web Developer, Sophos Anti-Virus
Real Business/CBI Growing Business Awards: Company of the Year
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tel: 01235 559933, Web: www.sophos.com

Re: OT perl question

[Dominic Mitchell]

nemesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Thanks to everyone who helped.  I will dump all the $ENV variable see
> what I can see in the different cases.

Alternatively, have a look at some of the test cgi scripts that come
with apache.  I was far too lazy to actually write a CGI to find that
one out.  :-)

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |

Re: Wingate was Re: black hat hackers

[Andrew Bowman]

From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> If they are allowing someone to use their machine to attack me, then
*they*
> are attacking me.  Not securing their own box is a sin of ommission as
> opposed to a sin of commission, so I'll let them off with a sound flaming
> instead of cutting their balls off.  Being incapable of securing their own
> box is not an admissible defence.

This'll be a different David Cantrell from the one that was opposing the
American's pursuit of Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan on (void) then...

;-)

Andrew.

P.S. This is a one liner - not an invitation to discuss Afghan politics!

Re: Guns and 'puters was Re: Wingate was Re: black hat hackers

[nemesis]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>>whereas a .303 rifle may only cause slight bruising/annoyance.
>>
> 
> Have you ever *held* a .303 rifle?


There is less chance of a 486 jamming in the banisters on the way down, 
so you retain the edge.  Of course you need the element of surprise, a 
man holding a 486 will earn less respect than a man holding the correct 
end of a .303 if he is seen.  That said, a freind of mine once got 
mugged by a man who walked up to him holding a tin[0] opener (the old 
sort that hurt your hands with the twisty handle).  He said
   "give he your wallet"
My freind laughed at him as he brandished the can empiercement device. 
The man then hit him and took his wallet.

My freind was not carrying a 486 unfortunatly so a comparison cannot be 
made as to the effectiveness it would have against the tin opener 
although this would be a worthy experiment, if a dangerous one.


[0]This was originally accidently written as a tim opener, which it could be argued 
was the same thing as a tin opener as long as the offensive end was being pointed at a 
person going by the correct name.


Will.

-- 
*claw claw* *fang*
*shred* *rip* *ad hominem* *slash*
(more attacks will require consultancy fees.)
  -Nix.

Re: Wingate was Re: black hat hackers

[Greg McCarroll]

* Andrew Bowman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > If they are allowing someone to use their machine to attack me, then
> *they*
> > are attacking me.  Not securing their own box is a sin of ommission as
> > opposed to a sin of commission, so I'll let them off with a sound flaming
> > instead of cutting their balls off.  Being incapable of securing their own
> > box is not an admissible defence.
> 
> This'll be a different David Cantrell from the one that was opposing the
> American's pursuit of Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan on (void) then...
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Andrew.
> 
> P.S. This is a one liner - not an invitation to discuss Afghan politics!
> 

no its not, its 5 lines at least! bah, you tories will munge statistics any
old way to try and support your point!

;-)

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: Guns and 'puters was Re: Wingate was Re: black hat hackers

[Wesley Darlington]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 06:14:08PM +, nemesis wrote:
>  a 
> man holding a 486 will earn less respect than a man holding the correct 
> end of a .303 if he is seen.  

That's a beautiful image, one that deserves to have some quotes
tortured in its general direction...

o Nobody move, he's got a 486!

o I know what you're thinking. Did he fire 487 shots or only 486? Well,
  to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track
  myself. But being as this is an Intel 32-bit cpu, the most powerful cpu 
  in the world, and would knock your head clean off, you've got to ask
  yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?

o That's not a CPU ... _This_ is a CPU!
 
:-),
Wesley.

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Paul Makepeace]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:18:32PM -, Ivor Williams wrote:
> Anybody curious enough might like to try the "Enneagram test" based on 9
> personality types.
> 
> Try http://www.duniho.com/fergus/enneagram/test/ for a test with 28
> questions in a proper web app that gives you instant results.

http://www.colorgenics.com/ is interesting and was spookily accurate for
me last night. (Mood & personality). Then there's the famous
Myers-Briggs, http://www.knowyourtype.com/ and passim.

P

Interested in coming to a meeting and talking about Generic Persistence layer

[Scott Bradley]

I am relatively new to Perl but have found it to be 
a very powerful expressive language. Two aspects Perl Im especially 
interested in are Patterns and efforts towards enterprise perl. 

 
 
 A pattern which caught my eye recently was 
the Apache::Session modules design. I tweaked it slightly so thats its more a 
generic persistence layer. Id be interested in discussing this with some people. 
Im based in NW London. See below for an example usage. 
 
 
 The benefits of this are that you can all your business objects are hashs and 
theres no need to worry about the specific storage used ( ie store as a 
serialized hash or as table attributes / switch from MySQL to Oracle  ). 

 
 
 
TO CREATE NEW OBJECTS IN THE DB:
==
 

for a single key, 
--
 
# if you know the key value you want to 
use


my @key = [ "person0001" ] ;
my $aPerson = Person::MySQL->new( @key 
)
 
# if you dont  
my $aPerson = Person::MySQL->new( 
)
 
# the _personId maps to a personId key field in the Person table

#then behaves exactly as the Apache::Session object.
my $id = $aPerson->{_personId};
 
 
 
 
and for mutiple keys
-
 

#you want to create a new object using the key 
elements(can use some or all )
my @key = [ "person0001", "EMPLOYEE" ] 
;
my $anEmp = PersonRole::MySQL->new( @key 
)
 
# if you dont   
my $anEmp = Person::Role::MySQL->new( 
)
 

# the _personId maps to a personId key field in the Role table

# the _roleId maps to a roleId key field in the Role table
my $id = $anEmp->{_personId};
my $role =  $anEmp->{_roleId};
 
 
TO  READ OBJECTS FROM THE DB
===
 

for a single key, 
--
 
my @key = [ "person0001" ] ;
my $aPerson = Person::MySQL->readFromDB( @key 
)
 
for n keys,
---
 

my @key = [ "person0001", "EMPLOYEE" ] 
;
my $anEmployee = 
Person::Role::MySQL->readFromDB( @key );
 
 
You get the idea anyway. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:22:01AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:

>  Then there's the famous
> Myers-Briggs, http://www.knowyourtype.com/ and passim.

Hold on.  We're not going to have this thread all over again are we?

-- 
Paul Johnson - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pjcj.net

Re: OT perl question

[Paul Makepeace]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 05:27:45PM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> nemesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Thanks to everyone who helped.  I will dump all the $ENV variable see
> > what I can see in the different cases.
> 
> Alternatively, have a look at some of the test cgi scripts that come
> with apache.  I was far too lazy to actually write a CGI to find that
> one out.  :-)

Here's one I prepared earlier,

http://realprogrammers.com/cgi-bin/env.cgi
http://realprogrammers.com/cgi-bin/src.cgi?env.cgi (source)

..which provides a dump of the environment variables and allows you to
play with a variety of GET & POST queries.

N.B.: This script is running under mod_perl so you'll see MOD_PERL =>
mod_perl/1.26 and PERL_SEND_HEADER => On as well as GATEWAY_INTERFACE =>
CGI-Perl/1.1

HTH,
P

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Paul Makepeace]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:08:15PM +0100, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:22:01AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> 
> >  Then there's the famous
> > Myers-Briggs, http://www.knowyourtype.com/ and passim.
> 
> Hold on.  We're not going to have this thread all over again are we?

I dunno, I'm not getting matches on "myers-briggs" or "briggs" for the
last 24,000 messages in London.pm's mail folder.

P

Re: failure notice

[Jonathan Stowe]

On 15 Jan 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> This is the mail delivery agent at messagelabs.com.
> I was not able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 212.187.234.33 does not like recipient.
> Remote host said: 550 Relaying is prohibited
> Giving up on 212.187.234.33.
>

Can one of my colleagues remember this the next time the topic comes up :)

/J\

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, the hatter wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Steve Rushe wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:34:21AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > > Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this,
> > >
> > > http://www.knowyourtype.com/mbti.html
> > >
> > > Upper right corner. Oh, man.
> >
> > Well I see what you're on about, so you're not alone!
> >
> > JanuaryÊ15,Ê3902 (on Omniweb 4.0.6)
>
>
> And in opera I get "January 15, 102"
>

I get "January 15, 19102" in Opera when it is identifying itself as MSIE
5.0 and "January 15, 102" when identifying as Opera - its perfectly
correct when it identifies itself as a Mozilla of any sort :)

There's a moral of some sort there ...

/I\

Re: Year 2K2 problem

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:20:58PM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:08:15PM +0100, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:22:01AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > 
> > >  Then there's the famous
> > > Myers-Briggs, http://www.knowyourtype.com/ and passim.
> > 
> > Hold on.  We're not going to have this thread all over again are we?
> 
> I dunno, I'm not getting matches on "myers-briggs" or "briggs" for the
> last 24,000 messages in London.pm's mail folder.

How about www.knowyourtype.com in your message that started this thread?

:-)

-- 
Paul Johnson - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pjcj.net

Re: Threads availability and support

[Nicholas Clark]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:23:06PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:06:00PM -, Ivor Williams wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > Anyone know what stage the threads work is at?
> > CPAN lists perl threads as a "big project", and I gather that some
> > _experimental_ stuff went into 5.6.1.
> > Anyone know what date and/or release this is targetted towards?
> 
> They should work in 5.8, as I understand it.
> I don't remember hearing if this will be "stable new feature", or
> "it works, but we're still calling it experimental".

I believe that ithreads were "experimental" in 5.6
(in that there was no perl level interface to make a thread, but the
underlying ithreads mechanism is what is used to fake fork() on Windows)

I'm not sure what they're going to be called in 5.8, or whether they'll be
"stable" or stable. I think more leaning towards the latter, but maybe I'm
an optimist. I fear that PerlIO is going to lean slightly towards the former,
despite our best efforts.
(for instance a current problem with HP UX restarting IO if an alarm fires
during a read for perlio, but not with stdio. So I infer HP SUX stdio does
some jiggery pokery) (oops. did I sound biased anywhere?)

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:06:00PM -, Ivor Williams wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> Anyone know what stage the threads work is at?
> 
> CPAN lists perl threads as a "big project", and I gather that some
> _experimental_ stuff went into 5.6.1.
> 
> Anyone know what date and/or release this is targetted towards?

There should be a 5.7.3 out soon, which it is hoped many people will try out
with their code (not in production) and report back any bugs or problems
found, so that they can be fixed by 5.8
(rather than people downloading 5.8 and finding that it can't go into
production because it does something wrong. It's too late then)

However, IIRC the main current delay is that Arthur Bergman not only has a
job, but for some reason[1] it is expecting him to devote lots of time to it
(more than usual, and for a couple of months now) and so he's not been able
to deal with some nasty ithreads on Win32 issues. Unfortunately it seems
that only busy people such as Arthur really understand the guts of ithreads.

Nicholas Clark

1: "we have work for you to do" seems to be a very good reason to be honest.
   It makes you feel wanted. And hence not likely to get the push.
-- 
ENOJOB http://www.ccl4.org/~nick/CV.html

Re: OT perl question

[Nicholas Clark]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 04:15:29PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'd be very surprised if you have a terminal in a cron job (which was
> one possibility from the original requirements above). You can
> probably also use POSIX::isatty() from perl but I haven't checked
> it in detail, or the -t file test, which checks if a filehandle is
> opened to a tty.

Does a CGI always run with a socket as STDOUT?
(in that running with a CGI-faked ENV as part of a pipe in a cron job is
going to look awfuly like being run from a web server)

Or will there be servers that run the CGI with the output to a pipe and in
turn pump that to the client?

Maybe this is all too complex for the purposes of original question.

Nicholas Clark
-- 
ENOJOB http://www.ccl4.org/~nick/CV.html

Re: Wingate was Re: black hat hackers

[David Cantrell]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 06:05:20PM -, Andrew Bowman wrote:
> From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > If they are allowing someone to use their machine to attack me, then
> *they*
> > are attacking me.  Not securing their own box is a sin of ommission as
> > opposed to a sin of commission, so I'll let them off with a sound flaming
> > instead of cutting their balls off.  Being incapable of securing their own
> > box is not an admissible defence.
> This'll be a different David Cantrell from the one that was opposing the
> American's pursuit of Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan on (void) then...

No.  If you were to make the bogus comparison you imply, then you would
see that that nice Mr. Bush should in fact have written nasty emails to
his Afghan opposite number, instead of ordering the murder of yet more
innocents.

Sub-thread filtered, respond off-list if you give a shit.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Blessed are the pessimists, for they test their backups
-- anon

Re: Wingate was Re: black hat hackers

[Andrew Bowman]

From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > If they are allowing someone to use their machine to attack me, then
> > *they*
> > > are attacking me.  Not securing their own box is a sin of ommission as
> > > opposed to a sin of commission, so I'll let them off with a sound
flaming
> > > instead of cutting their balls off.  Being incapable of securing their
own
> > > box is not an admissible defence.
> > This'll be a different David Cantrell from the one that was opposing the
> > American's pursuit of Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan on (void) then...
>
> No.  If you were to make the bogus comparison you imply, then you would
> see that that nice Mr. Bush should in fact have written nasty emails to
> his Afghan opposite number, instead of ordering the murder of yet more
> innocents.

Ops! Seems we're a bit touchy, in spite of the smiley and the note about
humourous one-liners rather than serious debate (both snipped from the
above).

Apologies all for lighting the red touchpaper!

Andrew.

Re: Interested in coming to a meeting and talking about Generic Persistence layer

[Greg McCarroll]

* Scott Bradley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 

First of all, welcome! And I hope to meet you at the next social
meeting or technical meeting (assuming there is a technical meeting
and assuming i dont skive from it and go roleplaying instead ;-) )

>I am relatively new to Perl but have found it to be a very powerful
>expressive language. Two aspects Perl Im especially interested in are
>Patterns and efforts towards enterprise perl.

I know there is an enterprise perl list you might be interested in for
the later,

List-Subscribe: 

Also I believe that the guy behind

 http://www.patternsinperl.com/

is holding weekling seminars or workshops about this somewhere in
London. He has probably got a mailing list going as well.

What do you think about patterns in perl, do you think we need as many
as languages like C++ / Java ? I.e. are all the patterns in the Go4
book useful for dynamic languages like Perl?

> A pattern which caught my eye recently was the Apache::Session
>modules design. I tweaked it slightly so thats its more a generic
>persistence layer. Id be interested in discussing this with some
>people. Im based in NW London. See below for an example usage.

Paul can chip in here and discuss upcoming meetings.

> The benefits of this are that you can all your business objects are
>hashs and theres no need to worry about the specific storage used ( ie
>store as a serialized hash or as table attributes / switch from MySQL
>to Oracle  ).

Of course there is a cunning difference between Session memory and
generally Persistent data. However it is so cunning that it has hidden
from me again and is probably somewhere in the implementation ;-)

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/