Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:11:51AM +, Dave Cross wrote: Unfortunately, I happen to know that the system Nick is working on is targetting Perl 5.004_04. Wow, and I thought I had to deal with primitive tools in targeting 5.005003. Those new-fangled doohickies are so nice, but you never really notice until you lose them. -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OSX
On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 10:52:07PM +, David Cantrell wrote: It is traditional to: a) post your comment *after* what you're replying to; b) only quote relevant snippets, not the whole damn message; Quite. c) have some grounding in reality Absolutely. I've just written a zero-length quine, and you can't do that without both feet firmly on the ground :) I'll publish it in a few days, when I've chosen a licence. -- Nick
Re: Is it a bird ?
Newton, Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Chris Devers wrote: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Newton, Philip wrote: Chris Devers wrote: I while back -- several years now I guess -- I saw an example program that would run under, among a few others, iirc Perl C and Shell. Maybe things like Basic Cobol too. Like this? http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/chogan/Web/polyglot this looks to be an elaborate Hello world, and I seem to remember it being a quine. I've never heard of a Cobol quine. And writing a quine in one language can be hard enough, and writing a program that's correct in several languages also, without the need to combine the two. There is at least one quine that works for almost every programming language; the empty quine. But that's cheating really. -- Piers It is a truth universally acknowledged that a language in possession of a rich syntax must be in need of a rewrite. -- Jane Austen?
Re: Callbacks in class definition woe
Ivor Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jonathan Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
$self-{rb}-addHook('invoke-on-contents',
\$self-invoke_on_contents);
I get
WWW::Robot: SCALAR(0x526e3c) is not a function reference; Ignoring it
And if I try
$self-{rb}-addHook('invoke-on-contents',
\{$self-invoke_on_contents});
You need a wrapper for your object method. addHook is expecting a code ref,
but does not know anything about the first (implied) argument, i.e. the
object reference.
I suggest
$self-{rb}-addHook('invoke-on-contents',
sub {my $foo = $self; $foo-invoke_on_contents});
The intermediary $foo makes the anonymous sub into a closure.
Ooh look, it's currying:
sub reify_method {
my $self = shift;
my $method = shift;
my @args = @_;
return sub { $self-$method(@args, @_) };
}
sub make_callback_spec {
my $self = shift;
my $hook_name = shift;
my $method= shift || $hook_name;
my @args = @_;
return ($hook_name,
$self-reify_method($method, @args));
}
Then, later.
$self-{rb}-addHook($self-make_callback_spec('invoke-on-contents'));
'reify' means 'to make into a thing'.
--
Piers
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a language in
possession of a rich syntax must be in need of a rewrite.
-- Jane Austen?
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 12:16:30AM +, Nick Cleaton said:
: $CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
: $CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
: $CGI::POST_MAX = 100;
: $CGI::POST_MAX = 100;
There must be a better way, but what ?
{
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
?
Re: OSX
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Simon Wistow wrote:
The granularity of software will become finer in order to extract more
money from you. Of course this will be marketed as being cheaper for
people who don't use all the 'power' features - you'll get billed for
suing the spell checker. And the printer. And changing fonts.
I have a free spell checker. And a free printer driver. And a lot of
free fonts [1].
Surely all that will happen is that free software will become more
prevalent. Giving me finer grains where I can plug in my free software is
fine by me, but I fail to see how it helps Apple make money.
Later.
Mark.
[1] And before you say it, under windows too. Go GNU.
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Simon Wistow wrote:
{
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
Never do this without comments.
{
# turn off warnings for this block
# assigning directly to CGI's settings
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
Later.
Mark.
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
JOBS: Web developer / Lead designer
Fotango (http://www.fotango.com/), where James and I work, are looking to fill two positions. Maybe you know somebody... Please contact: Simon Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Web Developer (Javascript / HTML / DHTML...) 2+ years experience of web development in a commercial environment working with a design team. Skills to include: Javascript, HTML / DHTML / Style sheets, Windows / Linux environments, Basic SQL statements, Perl (moderate level of ability, preferably classes etc). CVS, mod_perl, XML / SOAP / WSDL, MySQL, Some modelling and analysis experience, Knowledge and/or experience of the photographic industry Some experience with Microsoft Technologies (VBScript / ASP) The main responsibility will be to: Build a number of professional photographic sites and to be involved in the construction of a major multinational web services system. Other responsibilities will include: Production of work from concept to completed article. (This is a hands-on role). Providing expertise in web development for the professional market. Liase with design team, system team and business groups for the production of sites. Maintaining an awareness of appropriate technology. ** Graphic / Web Designer - Team Leader 4+ years experience of Web Design including workflow generation, layout and graphic and web design. To include: Photoshop. Illustrator or Freehand. HTML / DHTML / Style sheets. Windows / Apple environment. Corporate experience. Team management skills. Proven portfolio of work. Quark Express Understanding of Linux environment Knowledge and/or experience of the photographic industry The main responsibility will be to: Lead the design team in the production of corporate web sites for large multinational company and specifically be involved in the production of professional photo web sites. Other responsibilities will include: Production of design work from concept to completed article. (This is a hands-on role). Providing in-depth expertise in web design, offline design and surrounding areas. Organise the running of the design group including day-to-day management. Liase with third party suppliers for design material and work. Providing advice and guidance to other groups regarding design. Maintaining an awareness of appropriate technology. Evaluate performance of the team; conduct reviews and manage resources as necessary. Cheers, Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Nanoware...http://www.nanoware.org/ ... Divers do it deeper
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:05:49AM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
{
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
?
I'm assuming the ? is because you haven't tried it, right?
Didn't wfm on 5.005_03 anyhow.
--
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OSX
From: Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] The granularity of software will become finer in order to extract more money from you. Of course this will be marketed as being cheaper for people who don't use all the 'power' features - you'll get billed for suing the spell checker. And the printer. And changing fonts. Hence little or no experimentation and companies will become reliant on Task Wizards which will aggregate a number of tasks into one and for a lower price. Everything will become more homegenised. Part of this will be that accessing stuff over the network will cost you because it;s just another app. So Apple Shares will become revenue earners. So buy shares in them. I'm not convinced by the micro-payments model. I like to know exactly what something is costing me, otherwise how can I budget. I suppose if there was a little counter in the task bar adding it up as I go along, and a complete breakdown available so that I can see what things are costing me what, this would help, but I've always been a fan of fixed fees as much as possible. I've recently subscribed to BTSurfanytime, and now I have no telephone call charges; this has liberated me tremendously. Imagine telling your wife and kids not to use the spell checker as it's costing too much money, that would be a real reason for people to switch away from Word to a free word processor. In the office environment it might work, that's the way I think Oracle and SAP bill to a certain extent, in that you pay for the number of users logged on. but if I was the manager of an IT department I'd be asking for a fixed fee license to give me unlimited access, which is what $big_swedish_phone_company did with SAP. I will be dragged kicking and screaming towards any system that makes me pay per listen to a new CD. /Robert
Re: OSX
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:13:17AM +, Mark Fowler said: I have a free spell checker. And a free printer driver. And a lot of free fonts [1]. But you're not everybody. And I mean that with the greatest respect. And there's no way that free software could get organised to provide something like an ASP. Of course this isn't necessarily a bad thing but since when has that stopped the braying masses. Surely all that will happen is that free software will become more prevalent. Giving me finer grains where I can plug in my free software is fine by me, but I fail to see how it helps Apple make money. Because, not everybody uses free software. And free software doesn't really make money. There will almost certainly always be non-[Ff]ree software. If the economic model I proposed does become a reality then that's how Apple (if they're still around) will make money. Anyway, my mail was a (not so clever) hijacking of Apple Shares to describe sharing FS volumes across networks (they're also called Apple Shares, see), instead of shares (as in 'stocks and ...') in the company Apple, and to promote a discussion of the future of software in the place of a series of one liners.
Re: OSX
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 10:51:08AM +, Simon Wistow said: Computing will end up as micropayments. As is already happening with music and games (c.f the Neo vs. SCEE (Sony) 'Messiah' court case recently [0]) and probably with software if I ever actually bothered ETRAILINGFOOTNOTE [0] http://makeashorterlink.com/?M52C2335 and http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/23814.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/23492.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/23391.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/23334.html
Re: OSX
Chris Devers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I learned about the trick here:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20010326231011108
Basically, they suggest the following shell script:
#!/bin/tcsh
DANGER WILL ROBINSON! csh scripting is evil. Don't do it. You'll
only end up hurt and upset.
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/language/versus/csh.html
sync
df
date
foreach language ( French Dutch Spanish Italian Swedish Portuguese German )
find / -name $language.lproj -type d -exec rm -r -- {} ; -prune
end
date
df
sync
...which would need to be run as root under the sudo command.
--
#!/bin/sh
languages=French Dutch Spanish Italian Swedish Portuguese German
findargs=
for lang in $languages
do
test -n $findargs findargs=$findargs -o
findargs=$findargs$lang -type d
done
df -k
find / $findargs -print | xargs rm -rf
df -k
--
Untested, but you get the idea. Stick an echo in front of the rm if
you want to see what it would do.
-Dom
--
| Semantico: creators of major online resources |
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Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:23:18AM +, Richard Clamp said: I'm assuming the ? is because you haven't tried it, right? Didn't wfm on 5.005_03 anyhow. Yeah, I didn't have quick access to an early Perl. Should have included more disclaimers.
Re: Callbacks in class definition woe
You need to close over $self. Try this:
$self-{rb}-addHook('invoke-on-contents', sub {$self-invoke_on_contents(@_)});
$self-{rb}-addHook('follow-url-test', sub {$self-follow_url_test(@_)});
.robin.
Yay! Thanks for those who responded, this now works, and one day I'll
properly understand why. In the meantime, does anyonw know why
WWW::Robot goes VERY slowly? It seems to take 30-60 seconds between
deciding a link is worth following and retrieving the contents of the
page. I'm testing on a bog standard apache serving flat files on the
local machine, so I've no idea what the hold-up is... Crafting my own
LWP retrieval functions operates at the expected high speed
--
Jonathan Peterson
Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, +44 (0)20 7383 6092
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OSX
* at 01/02 11:23 - Robert Shiels said: From: Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] summaryit'll all be micorpayments i tell you/summary I'm not convinced by the micro-payments model. I like to know exactly what something is costing me, otherwise how can I budget. I suppose if there was This is what I see as the fatal flaw in the micropayment model. If I'm a manager with a budget I don't want to have to say well in April the marketing department have a lot of copy to write so will be using the spell checker more than normal so I need to have $extra in the budget for that. And it's not like you can say the software budget's a bit tight so you can't use the spellchecker this week. Also it would seem like an administrative nightmare as if you assume power features will cost more to use then you have to have a system to restrict who can use them to control costs. And then you would want to make sure that people aren't making excessive use of some of the other features (can't use spell checking on internal email for example). It all seems to add a chunk of complexity into the system for no added benefit to the user, not to mention extra cost. The other thing is it goes against how people percieve software purchasing. At the moment you buy it and it's yours to use as much as you like. Overcoming that will a very hard sell I think. s
Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/01/002232mode=nestedtid=8 Dan Sugalski writes: I'm making a list of active perlmongers groups and their mailing lists, something that'll make communication with folks a lot easier for me. So, if you're part of an active perlmongers group, please send me (at dan @ sidhe . org) the group name, putative leader (if there is one), where it is, and either a contact e-mail address or a your group's mailing list posting address. (I do know about the big list'o groups on pm.org, but many are defunct or have no contact info) Perhaps our Fearless Leader, Paul, should do this? That way, Dan won't get one email from every Londoner to read that announcement. I see that acme has already posted a reply pointing to the XML file, but at least the London.pm entry is rather outdated (not only does it list Dave Cross as leader, but it thinks that the mailing list is [EMAIL PROTECTED], which hasn't been true for *quite* a while). Cheers, -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] datenrevision GmbH Co. OHG http://www.datenrevision.de a gedas company TEL +49-40-797 007-37 Cuxhavener Str. 36, D-21149 Hamburg FAX +49-40-797 007-10
RE: Callbacks in class definition woe
From: Jonathan Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote ... In the meantime, does anyonw know why WWW::Robot goes VERY slowly? It seems to take 30-60 seconds between deciding a link is worth following and retrieving the contents of the page. I'm testing on a bog standard apache serving flat files on the local machine, so I've no idea what the hold-up is... Crafting my own LWP retrieval functions operates at the expected high speed It may be worth using DProf or SmallProf to profile your application. Try changing the shebang line: #!/usr/local/bin/perl -d:DProf or #!/usr/local/bin/perl -d:SmallProf This will make the application run MUCH SLOWER, but will be able to tell you where it is spending its time. --- The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and solely for the intended addressee(s). Unauthorised reproduction, disclosure, modification, and/or distribution of this email may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system. The views expressed in this message do not necessarily reflect those of LIFFE (Holdings) Plc or any of its subsidiary companies. ---
Re: OSX
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:32:24AM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: -- #!/bin/sh languages=French Dutch Spanish Italian Swedish Portuguese German findargs= for lang in $languages do test -n $findargs findargs=$findargs -o findargs=$findargs$lang -type d done df -k find / $findargs -print | xargs rm -rf df -k -- Should there be a -name in there somewhere ? And let's hope nobody did mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx, 0755; mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx/French, 0755; or you're in deep doodoo. File::Find, you know it makes sense :) -- Nick
Re: Callbacks in class definition woe
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
In the meantime, does anyonw know why WWW::Robot goes VERY slowly? It
deciding a link is worth following and retrieving the contents of the
page.
It's probably being polite by default in order not to swamp a server it's
making requests deliberatly slowly
I'm testing on a bog standard apache serving flat files on the local
machine, so I've no idea what the hold-up is... Crafting my own LWP
retrieval functions operates at the expected high speed
Oh crank it up then.
Look at the REQUEST_DELAY attribute
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
From: Newton, Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan Sugalski writes: Has this request been posted on the group leaders list, which seem a far more sensible place to advertise it? I don't suppose every group leader for the UK user groups are subbed to London.pm. Barbie. -- Birmingham.pm : http://birmingham.pm.org/ Work : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rsync and Backup again ... problems
So, my auto back up went off ok last night but stopped half way through. The logs had the message : fonts/ediblepet.zip write failed on fonts/ediblepet.zip : Success unexpected EOF in read_timeout Googling for this error gets http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/RsyncingALargeFileBeginner#Other_notes * Do not use the -c option -- it was the cause of many of my early problems with rsync (resulting in the message unexpected EOF in read_timeout). It forces a particularly long calculation in order to determine whether the files are different. It is better (takes less processing time) to simply make sure that the date of the local file does not match the date of the remote file, using touch or similar to change the date on the local copy if necessary. Then the files will be recognized as different without the -c option. * An unexpected EOF on read_timeout error often indicates something is taking too much time on the server. Don't specify the -c option, don't rsync more than one large file in a single rsync command, etc. Anybody got any ideas?
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:40:39AM +, Simon Wistow wrote: Yeah, I didn't have quick access to an early Perl. Should have included more disclaimers. Is now when I mention it doesn't work on 5.6.1 or blead too? What are you counting as a non-early Perl? -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Barbie wrote:
Has this request been posted on the group leaders list, which seem a far
more sensible place to advertise it?
Er, if you need to change your details, surely you're not on that list.
I don't suppose every group leader for
the UK user groups are subbed to London.pm.
It's also at http://use.perl.org/
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: Rsync and Backup again ... problems
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Simon Wistow wrote:
Anybody got any ideas?
Looks like the server is timing out. Why not simply repeat...each time
you should get more and more data down until you reach the stage where
you're only syncing changes.
Later.
Mark.
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
Barbie wrote: From: Newton, Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan Sugalski writes: Has this request been posted on the group leaders list, which seem a far more sensible place to advertise it? No idea. I saw it on use.perl.org. I don't suppose every group leader for the UK user groups are subbed to London.pm. Probably not. I only wanted to inform London.pm since that's my group and the one I have an interest in having correct data for; I'd have mailed Dan myself but I thought it was better for *one* person (preferable Paul) to do so. If you feel cam.pm, bath.pm, birmingham.pm or younameit.pm needs to read this, feel free to forward the use.perl URL in my original message. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
From: Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Barbie wrote: Has this request been posted on the group leaders list, which seem a far more sensible place to advertise it? Er, if you need to change your details, surely you're not on that list. But he doesn't advertise on that list, then not every active list leader is going to know about the request. I don't suppose every group leader for the UK user groups are subbed to London.pm. It's also at http://use.perl.org/ Not everyone reads use Perl, which is why it would be better to send to the current group leaders listed, and assume that a list is defunct if you never receive a reply. Barbie.
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 12:39:40PM +, Richard Clamp said:
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:40:39AM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
Yeah, I didn't have quick access to an early Perl. Should have included
more disclaimers.
Is now when I mention it doesn't work on 5.6.1 or blead too?
What are you counting as a non-early Perl?
[simon@ns0 simon]$ cat try
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use CGI;
{
# turn off warnings for this block
# assigning directly to CGI's settings
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
exit 0;
[simon@ns0 simon]$ perl -v | head -2
This is perl, v5.6.0 built for i386-linux
[simon@ns0 simon]$ perl try
[simon@ns0 simon]$
Twas just a suggestion. Seemed to work on my machine.
Of course, with 5.6.0, I could have just used no warnings qw(once);
When you say doesn't work under 5.6.1 what do you mean?
works under
swistow@simonw ~ $ perl -v | head -2
This is perl, v5.6.1 built for i386-linux
swistow@simonw ~ $
for me. By works I mean doesn't squeal about errors.
I don't have anything earlier.
Oh wait, yes I do.
It also works under
$ perl -v | head -2
This is perl, version 5.005_03 built for sun4-solaris
$
which leads me to suspect that my definition of works is wrong.
.NOT! (was: OSX)
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:23:02AM -, Robert Shiels wrote: I will be dragged kicking and screaming towards any system that makes me pay per listen to a new CD. It doesn't have to be all bad. I'd rather pay 10p to listen to a CD once than pay 15 quid to buy it, find out it's shit, and then only ever listen to it once. Of course, the record companies (in their present state) would never do this because they all get very rich out of selling you shit for 15 quid that you only ever listen to once. :-) But to get back to the interesting issue... In my humble opinion, the application service provider model as Microsoft, AOL, et al, would like to imagine it it fundamentally flawed for at least, uhm, 3 good reasons I can't rant about off the top of my head: * No-one really knows how to do the component thing properly. COM isn't it, DCOM isn't it, .NOT? .NOT! Talking about the fine granularity of software components in the future will be great just as soon as someone figures out how to do it without the whole thing becoming a great sluggish, bloated and bloody tangled mess. * Microsoft software is shit. Not just in terms of performance, reliability or anything else like that, but because they keep pushing a proprietary Microsoft-wins-all model that real developers just aren't interested in. The millions of people like us will continue to write in Perl, Python, Ruby, etc., because we don't want their stupid Microsoft crap. We're not all going to buy into it so another way will always exist. * Solving the software crisis (of which this is just the latest silver bullet after structured programming, OOP, 4GLs, CASE Tools, UML, XML, Open Source, etc.) will most likely require several huge paradigm shifts. That's not going to happen under Microsoft's near-monopoly on personal computing because they're followers, not leaders. It'll probably require a new world order. In others words, Microsoft will have to topple before software engineering and personal computing really evolve to the next level. And by that time, I'll be too busy partying... :-) I'm going off on a rant now. EPLOTLOST. Time to eat lunch. A
Re: Rsync and Backup again ... problems
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 12:47:48PM +, Mark Fowler said: Looks like the server is timing out. Why not simply repeat...each time you should get more and more data down until you reach the stage where you're only syncing changes. That was what I guessed. I was hoping for a less clunky solution than, keep trying it till it works though. Bah. Software sucks.
RE: Callbacks in class definition woe
Jonathon Peterson wrote... [snip] Yay! Thanks for those who responded, this now works, and one day I'll properly understand why. In the meantime, does anyonw know why WWW::Robot goes VERY slowly? It seems to take 30-60 seconds between deciding a link is worth following and retrieving the contents of the page. I'm testing on a bog standard apache serving flat files on the local machine, so I've no idea what the hold-up is... Crafting my own LWP retrieval functions operates at the expected high speed Without looking at the code, I would assume that WWW::Robot is just obeying the guidelines (http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/guidelines.html) for nice robots. A quick cut and paste from it says... Robots consume a lot of resources. To minimise the impact, keep the following in mind: Walk, don't run Make sure your robot runs slowly: although robots can handle hundreds of documents per minute, this puts a large strain on a server, and is guaranteed to infuriate the server maintainer. Instead, put a sleep in, or if you're clever rotate queries between different servers in a round-robin fashion. Retrieving 1 document per minute is a lot better than one per second. One per 5 minutes is better still. Yes, your robot will take longer, but what's the rush, it's only a program. Just a guess... Rob ** For great Emap magazine subscription gift offers visit http://www.emapmagazines.co.uk ** The information in this email is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient of this message any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. Emap plc and or its subsidiaries do not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or other defects and accept no liability for any losses resulting from infected email transmissions. Please note that any views expressed in this email may be those of the originator and do not necessarily reflect those of this organisation.
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 12:26:17PM -, Barbie wrote: From: Newton, Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan Sugalski writes: Has this request been posted on the group leaders list, which seem a far more sensible place to advertise it? I don't suppose every group leader for the UK user groups are subbed to London.pm. Some of the group leaders didn't even know there was a group leaders list to subscribe to. Does this make me one of Dave Cross's one eyed kings? Random brainfart: is the diversity of Perl communities (use.perl.org, perl.com (to some extent), rhizo #perl, efnet #perl, comp.lang.perl.misc, perlmonks, the multiple PM groups) a strength or a weakness? Do people end up in the right place for them or just the first one they stumble on? Genuinely interested and definitely not wanting a 'group X is for l4m3rs' discussion... -- :: paul :: husk
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:03:57PM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 12:39:40PM +, Richard Clamp said:
[simon@ns0 simon]$ cat try
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use CGI;
{
# turn off warnings for this block
# assigning directly to CGI's settings
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
exit 0;
[simon@ns0 simon]$ perl -v | head -2
This is perl, v5.6.0 built for i386-linux
[simon@ns0 simon]$ perl try
[simon@ns0 simon]$
./try or perl -w try would be better tests.
It doesn't work because the local $^W = 0; is runtime but
the warning is compile time.
--
Nick
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Newton, Philip wrote: Barbie wrote: I don't suppose every group leader for the UK user groups are subbed to London.pm. If you feel cam.pm, bath.pm, birmingham.pm or younameit.pm needs to read this, feel free to forward the use.perl URL in my original message. Did it about 3am this morning ;-) Ta for the forward, though. I'm not sure I'm on the group leaders list. L. Thank Crunchie it's Friday.
Re: OSX
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 12:16:44PM +, Nick Cleaton wrote: And let's hope nobody did mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx, 0755; mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx/French, 0755; or you're in deep doodoo. Change find / $findargs -print | xargs rm -rf to find / $findargs -print0 | xargs -0 rm -rf and expect it to fail if you don't have GNU-compatible find and xargs. But the existence of those options is why I insist on having GNU-compatible find and xargs R -- He's a hate-fuelled crooked shaman who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a radical gypsy stripper from aristocratic European stock. They fight crime!
Re: Rsync and Backup again ... problems
Simon Wistow wrote: Software sucks. Welcome[1] to alt.sysadmin.recovery; our motto is all software sucks. Cheers, Philip [1] Disclaimer: this mailing list may or may not be a.s.r and I may or may not even follow that group at all. -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: OSX
On 1 Feb 2002, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
Chris Devers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
#!/bin/tcsh
DANGER WILL ROBINSON! csh scripting is evil. Don't do it. You'll
only end up hurt and upset.
Heh. I wasn't defending it, just parroting with the hope that a cleverer
solution would emerge if one were needed. And it has, sort of. Compare:
foreach language ( French Dutch Spanish Italian Swedish Portuguese German )
find / -name $language.lproj -type d -exec rm -r -- {} ; -prune
end
languages=French Dutch Spanish Italian Swedish Portuguese German
findargs=
for lang in $languages
do
test -n $findargs findargs=$findargs -o
findargs=$findargs$lang -type d
done
find / $findargs -print | xargs rm -rf
Your version is somewhat better, but isn't focusing on /lproj/, which
could be individual (xml?) text files, or directories containing other
test files, images, and maybe even more directories.
As I was saying in the followup message, the original algorithm looked
sloppy anyway, and just redoing it in Perl makes more sense. But I wasn't
bored enough to be the one to write it :)
--
Chris Devers
Okay, Gene... so, -1 x -1 should equal what? A South American!
[] no human can understand the Timecube and Gene responded
without missing a beat Yeah. I'm not human.
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:03:57PM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
which leads me to suspect that my definition of works is wrong.
No, just your understanding as to why your solution works. By using
CGI you're queering your own test. (See after sig)
Of course that does make me wonder why the OP doesn't just use CGI,
and see the pain fade.
--
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
richardc@mirth:~% perl -v | head -2 ; for i in foo bar baz ; do echo --- $i ; cat $i ;
echo --- ; perl -w $i ; done
This is perl, v5.6.1 built for powerpc-linux
--- foo
{
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
---
Name CGI::POST_MAX used only once: possible typo at foo line 5.
Name CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS used only once: possible typo at foo line 4.
--- bar
use CGI;
{
local $^W = 0;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
}
---
--- baz
use CGI;
$CGI::DISABLE_UPLOADS = 1;
$CGI::POST_MAX= 100;
---
richardc@mirth:~%
Re: .NOT! (was: OSX)
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 08:00, Andy Wardley wrote: uhm, 3 good reasons I can't rant about off the top of my head: * No-one really knows how to do the component thing properly. COM isn't it, DCOM isn't it, .NOT? .NOT! Talking about the fine granularity of software components in the future will be great just as soon as someone figures out how to do it without the whole thing becoming a great sluggish, bloated and bloody tangled mess. Moore will save us. We're at what, 2Ghz Intel chips now? When it hits 16Ghz many of today's apps will run properly. Of course MS will have built 5 more layers on top of everything by then, making sure application responsivness stays constant at best. * Microsoft software is shit. Not just in terms of performance, reliability or anything else like that, but because they keep pushing a proprietary Microsoft-wins-all model that real developers just aren't interested in. The scary thing is that the people who *pay* programmers like it when somebody tells them, look! pointy clicky! no thinking! * Solving the software crisis (of which this is just the latest silver bullet after structured programming, OOP, 4GLs, CASE Tools, UML, XML, Open Source, etc.) will most likely require several huge paradigm shifts. That's not going to happen under Microsoft's near-monopoly on personal computing because they're followers, not leaders. It'll probably require a new world order. In others words, Microsoft will have to topple before software engineering and personal computing really evolve to the next level. And by that time, I'll be too busy partying... :-) I doubt you'll be partying when MS is toppled. Whatever comes next is sure to be worse. Think government issued licenses for programmers. Register with the police if you own a compiler. You will be protected from evil hacker d00ds, whether you want it or not. Our society depends on quality software. Can't have amateurs messing with things like that. -- mike Pretzel schmetzel, the guy was drunk
Re: OSX
Nick Cleaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:32:24AM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: -- #!/bin/sh languages=French Dutch Spanish Italian Swedish Portuguese German findargs= for lang in $languages do test -n $findargs findargs=$findargs -o findargs=$findargs$lang -type d done df -k find / $findargs -print | xargs rm -rf df -k -- Should there be a -name in there somewhere ? Absolutely. I blew it. And let's hope nobody did mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx, 0755; mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx/French, 0755; or you're in deep doodoo. Yup. But this /is/ a mac. File::Find, you know it makes sense :) Ick, File::Find is a nasty interface. -Dom -- | Semantico: creators of major online resources | | URL: http://www.semantico.com/ | | Tel: +44 (1273) 72 | | Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
From: Paul Mison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some of the group leaders didn't even know there was a group leaders list to subscribe to. Does this make me one of Dave Cross's one eyed kings? It did mention the list in the appropriate blurb when I first set up Birmingham.pm, so I can only assume that the blurb has now changed. That's perhaps why there hasn't been many announcements on it in the last year. Random brainfart: is the diversity of Perl communities a strength or a weakness? Do people end up in the right place for them or just the first one they stumble on? I think however anyone stumbles on the community is a good thing. The fact that the community is so diverse is a strength. Not everyone is interested in user groups, just as not everyone has the time to use IRC. Personally I think the community as a whole benefits from all the avenues of interest, even those forums we come across (provided someone tells them where to go for the real goods of course) for newbies. Barbie.
Diversity [was Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups]
Paul Mison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] writes: Random brainfart: is the diversity of Perl communities (use.perl.org, perl.com (to some extent), rhizo #perl, efnet #perl, comp.lang.perl.misc, perlmonks, the multiple PM groups) a strength or a weakness? Do people end up in the right place for them or just the first one they stumble on? I think that the answer to the second question is 'Yes', taking the 'or' as an 'inclusive or'. Most of us have discovered Perl at some stage in our career and found a suitable list (I am using the term list here generically to include mailing lists, discussion groups, IRCs, etc). The list was right (hopefully) at the time for the job required, e.g. CGI scripts. However, subscribing to a list exposes the human to a number of Perl community 'tentacles', and they find themselves subscribing to other lists. If the human is boring, busy or under boss surveilance (3 b's), they will probably just stay on the original list. But these are not the people who contribute directly to the community, they are the audience for the perl quality crusade. If the list is of poor quality, when the tentacle crosses the list, it is the duty of conscientious perl mon(ger|k)s to rectify the situation (nice work with CGI101, Dave! :-)). Watch the Principle of Emergence, or Process of Evolution in action! If we lose a few lists through lack of interest, this will not harm the community, but will focus people on the extant active lists. There is no need for executive action to terminate or merge active lists - besides, this goes against the grain as we are a bottom-up community. A general lack of interest in all the Perl lists would indicate that the language is dead, and we are all programming in something else, such as Perlby-Jython++. :-) Ivor. --- The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and solely for the intended addressee(s). Unauthorised reproduction, disclosure, modification, and/or distribution of this email may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system. The views expressed in this message do not necessarily reflect those of LIFFE (Holdings) Plc or any of its subsidiary companies. ---
Re: Is it a bird ?
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 09:52:51AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is at least one quine that works for almost every programming language; the empty quine. But that's cheating really. [robin@puffinry robin]$ touch empty.c [robin@puffinry robin]$ gcc empty.c /usr/lib/crt1.o(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `main' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status [robin@puffinry robin]$ touch empty.f [robin@puffinry robin]$ f2c empty.f empty.f: [robin@puffinry robin]$ gcc empty.c -lf2c -lm /usr/lib/libf2c.so: undefined reference to `MAIN__' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status [robin@puffinry robin]$ touch empty.hs [robin@puffinry robin]$ ghc empty.hs empty.hs:0: Module `Main' must include a definition for `Main.main' Compilation had errors etc... Really it only seems to work for shell-like languages. .robin.
Re: .NOT! (was: OSX)
From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] The scary thing is that the people who *pay* programmers like it when somebody tells them, look! pointy clicky! no thinking! I actually remember when M$ marketed Windoze as an operating system for managers, so that programmers could get on with the real issues. Barbie.
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:27:58PM +, Simon Wistow wrote: On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:10:06PM +, Nick Cleaton said: ./try or perl -w try would be better tests. Ah, I thought that Perl parsed the shebang line even if it was passed the program as a filename It does. In your tests the use of CGI.pm defines the symbols, so you're not going to get a used once warning from them no matter how hard you prod them. /me learns something new everyday First reproduce the bug, then fix it? Careful how you write tests, lest bugs become Heisenbugs? Embrace really are quite whiny? Mine was the latter. -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OSX
On 1 Feb 2002, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: $ mkdir fred barney; cd fred barney; pwd Hehehe... % mkdir fred Unmatched . % sh localhost% mkdir fred dquote barney localhost% tcsh % cd frTAB % cd fred\ barney/ cd: Too many arguments. % rmdir fred\ barney/ rmdir: fred: No such file or directory rmdir: barney: No such file or directory % exit localhost% ls fred' 'barney localhost% rmdir fred' 'barney localhost% ls fred' 'barney ls: fred barney: No such file or directory localhost% quit Wiseguy... :) -- Chris Devers Okay, Gene... so, -1 x -1 should equal what? A South American! [] no human can understand the Timecube and Gene responded without missing a beat Yeah. I'm not human.
Re: OSX
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randal L. Schwartz) writes: Dominic == Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And let's hope nobody did mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx, 0755; mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx/French, 0755; or you're in deep doodoo. Dominic Yup. But this /is/ a mac. Why would that make it any different? I demo'ed a newline-containing directory name just yesterday in class on my OSX box. No difference whatsoever, except that the owner is less likely to do daft things in /tmp. :-) -Dom -- | Semantico: creators of major online resources | | URL: http://www.semantico.com/ | | Tel: +44 (1273) 72 | | Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |
Re: OSX
Dominic == Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And let's hope nobody did mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx, 0755; mkdir /tmp/x\n/\nx/French, 0755; or you're in deep doodoo. Dominic Yup. But this /is/ a mac. Why would that make it any different? I demo'ed a newline-containing directory name just yesterday in class on my OSX box. $ mkdir fred barney; cd fred barney; pwd Works just fine. I didn't look to see what the Finder would do with that, however. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: OSX
From: Randal L. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe you didn't hear about the iTunes upgrade fiasco, where a misquoted shell parameter caused people to lose entire disks if they happened to have a space in the volume name (which nearly everyone I know does). My volume was called Macintosh HD, with a space. I've just clicked on it on the desktop and changed it to MacintoshHD without a space. Can anyone verify for me that this is OK, and that I won't have problems booting from that volume or any other weirdness. /Robert
Re: OSX
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Robert Shiels wrote: My volume was called Macintosh HD, with a space. I've just clicked on it on the desktop and changed it to MacintoshHD without a space. Can anyone verify for me that this is OK, and that I won't have problems booting from that volume or any other weirdness. I would think you're fine, though you can check the startup disc in OSX System Preferences or OS9 Control Panels to be sure (and make sure you didn't break any symlinks by doing that). You still need to be careful though, because you still have, e.g.: /Applications/Internet\ Explorer.app/Contents/Frameworks/MS\ XML\ Library.cfm/Contents/Resources/Swedish.lproj/Localized.rsrc ...with spaces all over the place, and not just the partition name. -- Chris Devers Okay, Gene... so, -1 x -1 should equal what? A South American! [] no human can understand the Timecube and Gene responded without missing a beat Yeah. I'm not human.
Diversity (was Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups)
Paul Mison wrote: Random brainfart: is the diversity of Perl communities (use.perl.org, perl.com (to some extent), rhizo #perl, efnet #perl, comp.lang.perl.misc, perlmonks, the multiple PM groups) a strength or a weakness? Add at least [EMAIL PROTECTED] (sp?) and c.l.p.moderated. Not to mention the dozens of places where Perl programmers congregate which we may or may not consider part of the Perl community (assorted bulletin boards, Yahoo clubs, mailing lists, ... where it's sometimes a case of blind leading the blind). Do people end up in the right place for them or just the first one they stumble on? I don't know... but I think if either of those, then the latter. I don't think most people take the time to evaluate all those groups, even if they learn of them (which I think not every does very quickly). I'd say most of them take a while to get used to -- for example, Perlmonks is a lot different from clp.misc, which is a lot different from #perl (either of them). A different group of people, different focus, different attitudes to various subjects, ... Some people may try out something for a week or so but don't take the time to get the hang of it to see whether they fit in there. So people may not be connecting with the people they should be [that is, which would benefit them]. Whether this is good or bad I don't know, but I perceive the situation as being rather split, with not a whole lot of intermingling between the various groups. Most people probably don't belong to more than two or three of those groups -- for example, I don't know how big the intersection between Perlmonks and clp.misc is. (use.perl.org appears not to have a whole lot of traffic anyway, so those on it may be the more active type of people and more likely to be on several different venues.) It's something I've also wondered about at times... my first contact was, I believe, comp.lang.perl.misc. I tried IRC for a while before (a) I found it's a great time-waster if you're not careful and (b) our company changed its firewall. I tried out Perlmonks for a week or so, and had a look around. I was on a couple of Perl-Win32-* mailing lists hosted by ActiveState until I apparently got unsubscribed automatically, probably following a mailer glitch in our company bouncing mails for too long -- which was OK, since the volume was fairly high and I found it hard to cope. I fell back to clp.misc because that's what I had known first, but I don't really know what all the different groups have to offer. (And now I don't follow that very closely any more, either, since my Usenet consumption was going over the top.) I think there's just not enough time to do everything ... be an active Perlmonk, do #perl on IRC, follow clpm, read Perlmonth [which I heard is dead now?], do the use.perl thing (discussion and/or diary), hang out with Perl mongers both IRL and on a mailing list, etc. etc. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Callbacks in class definition woe
It's probably being polite by default in order not to swamp a server it's making requests deliberatly slowly Look at the REQUEST_DELAY attribute Heh. When I read the docs I thought it said the default was a 1 second delay not a 1 minute delay. Doh. All hunky-dory now. -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, +44 (0)20 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:27:58PM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
Ah, I thought that Perl parsed the shebang line even if it was passed
the program as a filename
Yup, you're right, I was wrong. You learn something every day :)
As Richard points out, your solution works because of the 'use CGI'
rather than the 'local $^W = 0'.
The real problem seems to be that the CGI.pm that comes with Perl
5.00404 (version 2.36) doesn't have those variables, so even when
I 'use CGI' I get the warnings under 5.00404.
/usr/local/perl-5.00404/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; {local $^W = 0; $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
Name CGI::POST_MAX used only once: possible typo at -e line 1.
/usr/local/perl-5.00404/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; { $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
Name CGI::POST_MAX used only once: possible typo at -e line 1.
/usr/local/perl-5.00405/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; {local $^W = 0; $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-5.00405/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; { $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-5.005/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; {local $^W = 0; $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-5.005/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; { $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-5.00503/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; {local $^W = 0; $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-5.00503/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; { $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-560/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; {local $^W = 0; $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-560/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; { $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-561/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; {local $^W = 0; $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
/usr/local/perl-561/bin/perl -we 'use CGI; { $CGI::POST_MAX =
100;}'
--
Nick
Re: Diversity (was Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups)
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 15:26, Newton, Philip wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (sp?) You mean [EMAIL PROTECTED], methinks. - Chris. -- $a=printf.net; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Re: OSX
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:18:05PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Change find / $findargs -print | xargs rm -rf to find / $findargs -print0 | xargs -0 rm -rf Much better, but even then there's a race if there's a malicious local user. Some sort of extra logic to avoid descending into subdirectories writable by non-system users might be in order. and expect it to fail if you don't have GNU-compatible find and xargs. But the existence of those options is why I insist on having GNU-compatible find and xargs Change it to find / $findargs -delete and expect it to fail if your find is less good than the one that comes with FreeBSD :) /troll -- Nick
Re: OSX
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Nick Cleaton wrote: On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:18:05PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Change find / $findargs -print | xargs rm -rf to find / $findargs -print0 | xargs -0 rm -rf Much better, but even then there's a race if there's a malicious local user. Some sort of extra logic to avoid descending into subdirectories writable by non-system users might be in order. Well, assuming that you'll be the only connected user on a Mac isn't totally unreasonable, and in any event for a home machine you can just unplug the network line if you're that paranoid :) find / $findargs -delete and expect it to fail if your find is less good than the one that comes with FreeBSD :) /troll Doesn't seem valid for the default find command: [localhost Fri 11:03:07am ~]% touch foo [localhost Fri 11:03:15am ~]% find foo foo [localhost Fri 11:03:17am ~]% find foo -delete find: -delete: unknown option [localhost Fri 11:03:21am ~]% which find /usr/bin/find [localhost Fri 11:03:29am ~]% Which isn't to say that you couldn't install a different one... -- Chris Devers Okay, Gene... so, -1 x -1 should equal what? A South American! [] no human can understand the Timecube and Gene responded without missing a beat Yeah. I'm not human.
Linuxbierwanderung 2002
The venue for this year's Linuxbierwanderung has been decided. It will be based in the village of Doolin, Co. Clare, Ireland. See http://www.draiocht.net/lbw-ie/ for details. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david This is nice. Any idea what body-part it is?
Re: Diversity (was Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups)
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 04:26:20PM +0100, Newton, Philip wrote: I think there's just not enough time to do everything ... be an active Perlmonk, do #perl on IRC, follow clpm, read Perlmonth [which I heard is dead now?], do the use.perl thing (discussion and/or diary), hang out with Perl mongers both IRL and on a mailing list, etc. etc. No wonder there's no time left for anyone to patch perl5, write more regression tests for it, or write parrot. :-( (or do work. Maybe that's why so many .coms folded) Nicholas Clark -- EMCFT http://www.ccl4.org/~nick/CV.html
Re: Callbacks in class definition woe
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:44:20AM +, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Yay! Thanks for those who responded, this now works, and one day I'll properly understand why. In the meantime, does anyonw know why WWW::Robot goes VERY slowly? IIRC it has an option to throttle itself back so it doesn't overwhelm the server. Is that turned on? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Considering the number of wheels Microsoft has found reason to invent, one never ceases to be baffled by the minuscule number whose shape even vaguely resembles a circle. -- anon, on Usenet
Re: OSX
Dominic == Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dominic No difference whatsoever, except that the owner is less likely to do Dominic daft things in /tmp. :-) Maybe you didn't hear about the iTunes upgrade fiasco, where a misquoted shell parameter caused people to lose entire disks if they happened to have a space in the volume name (which nearly everyone I know does). Whitespace happens. Be prepared for it, or you will get bitten badly, not a matter of if, but WHEN. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Low budget applications
Just a thought... Thinking about Perl usage in the M25 radius area, I wonder how much takeup there is at the low budget end of the spectrum, in particular: Education Health Charities These seem to me to be ideal markets for Perl to become established in, where the advantages of open source software over commercial packages could be realised to the full. It would be encouraging to see some _application_ code in these areas appearing on CPAN. Any perlmongers working in this area? I was once a sysadmin in a hospital IT department - long before I knew perl. Perl would have been very useful for many aspects of this job. Ivor Williams Sopra Mentor Consultant LIFFE Core Systems Development Extn: 2436 Mobile: 07752 234832 --- The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and solely for the intended addressee(s). Unauthorised reproduction, disclosure, modification, and/or distribution of this email may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system. The views expressed in this message do not necessarily reflect those of LIFFE (Holdings) Plc or any of its subsidiary companies. ---
Re: Low budget applications
Sometime ago, I read about the use of open source software in the developing world, within schools etc. I think that there are a lot of organisations out there who would benefit from open source development in general. Unlike Big Bad Project Manager, Little Raju in india is not going to care whether or not someone has paid several hundred pounds for a license. Nice hippy though: GSO - geek services organisation, going off around the world and setting up linux boxes for half starved, starving people. fiq. On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Ivor Williams wrote: Just a thought... Thinking about Perl usage in the M25 radius area, I wonder how much takeup there is at the low budget end of the spectrum, in particular: Education Health Charities These seem to me to be ideal markets for Perl to become established in, where the advantages of open source software over commercial packages could be realised to the full. It would be encouraging to see some _application_ code in these areas appearing on CPAN. Any perlmongers working in this area? I was once a sysadmin in a hospital IT department - long before I knew perl. Perl would have been very useful for many aspects of this job. Ivor Williams Sopra Mentor Consultant LIFFE Core Systems Development Extn: 2436 Mobile: 07752 234832 --- The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and solely for the intended addressee(s). Unauthorised reproduction, disclosure, modification, and/or distribution of this email may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system. The views expressed in this message do not necessarily reflect those of LIFFE (Holdings) Plc or any of its subsidiary companies. ---
Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:07:58PM +, Paul Mison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Some of the group leaders didn't even know there was a group leaders list to subscribe to. Does this make me one of Dave Cross's one eyed kings? Ergh. One more handy-overy thing that I forgot to do. I'll take immediate(ish) action. Dave... -- Don't you boys know any _nice_ songs?
Re: botch to prevent a warning
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 03:40:53PM +, Nick Cleaton wrote: The real problem seems to be that the CGI.pm that comes with Perl 5.00404 (version 2.36) doesn't have those variables, so even when I 'use CGI' I get the warnings under 5.00404. Ah, but 2.36 doesn't even check those variables, so it probably doesn't have that behaviour either. Is it impossible to upgrade CGI.pm to something less ancient? The only place I could find a version of CGI.pm 2.36 was in the perl5.004.tar.gz source bundle, with the rcsid: $Id: CGI.pm,v 2.36 1997/5/10 8:22 lstein Exp $ Nineteen ninety seven! I'd doubt I was even born back then, but I have albums older than that :) -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: .NOT! (was: OSX)
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:00:11PM +, Andy Wardley wrote: It doesn't have to be all bad. I'd rather pay 10p to listen to a CD once than pay 15 quid to buy it, find out it's shit, and then only ever listen to it once. Except that I suspect it would be more like 100p - and even tho' I've got lots (50-100?) CDs I've only listened to once, That would be too much when some albums have been played hundreds of times ... -- Chris Benson
Re: OSX
From: robin szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Friday 01 February 2002 15:20, Chris Devers wrote: You still need to be careful though, because you still have, e.g.: /Applications/Internet\ Explorer.app/Contents/Frameworks/MS\ XML\ Library.cfm/Contents/Resources/Swedish.lproj/Localized.rsrc ...with spaces all over the place, and not just the partition name. surely the obvious way to resolve this and improve system security in several other ways is simply to delete the Internet\ Explorer sub-directory ? And use instead? Seriously, I'd like to know if something else has all the features and can be used for testing web page development. I've heard good things about iCab, should I delete IE and put in that instead? I need javascript too. /Robert PS - if this isn't boring people too much, an update on my adventures. I got DBI and DBD::mysql built and installed, and got a perl script working to select and display rows from one of my tables. I'm now thinking about porting a PHP web application I wrote to perl, I wonder if template toolkit will work on OSX.
Re: Diversity (was Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups)
Newton, == Newton, Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Newton, I think there's just not enough time to do everything ... be an active Newton, Perlmonk, do #perl on IRC, follow clpm, read Perlmonth [which I heard is Newton, dead now?], do the use.perl thing (discussion and/or diary), hang out with Newton, Perl mongers both IRL and on a mailing list, etc. etc. Unless you consider it your job, or (gasp) your life. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: OSX
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, robin szemeti wrote: On Friday 01 February 2002 15:20, Chris Devers wrote: /Applications/Internet\ Explorer.app/Contents/Frameworks/MS\ XML\ Library.cfm/Contents/Resources/Swedish.lproj/Localized.rsrc ...with spaces all over the place, and not just the partition name. surely the obvious way to resolve this and improve system security in several other ways is simply to delete the Internet\ Explorer sub-directory ? Uhh, maybe. But consider: % ls -1 /Applications | grep ' ' Address Book.app Image Capture.app Internet Connect.app Internet Explorer.app QuickTime Player.app System Preferences.app % % ls -1 / | grep ' ' AppleShare PDS Applications (Mac OS 9) Cleanup At Startup Desktop DB Desktop DF Desktop Folder Shutdown Check System Folder Temporary Items % % ls -1 ~/Library/ | grep ' ' Application Support FruitMenu Items Internet Plug-Ins Internet Search Sites Screen Savers % I could do without IE, and maybe Quicktime and a couple of the others. But I'm not getting rid of System Preferences, and I'm not going to trash my system's nor my account's preference folders, thankyouverymuch. And that's mostly default stuff, nevermind third party stuff of your own (the main third party thing from that list is FruitMenu, which I didn't like and keep meaning to delete -- the other things have to stay). This was not meant to be a lesson in how evil MSIE is. It was a lesson in the fact that filename spaces are here to stay, and any scripts you write and use need to be able to handle them robustly. -- Chris Devers Okay, Gene... so, -1 x -1 should equal what? A South American! [] no human can understand the Timecube and Gene responded without missing a beat Yeah. I'm not human.
Re: OSX
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, robin szemeti wrote: On Friday 01 February 2002 18:43, Robert Shiels wrote: other ways is simply to delete the Internet\ Explorer sub-directory ? And use instead? Seriously, I'd like to know if something else has all the features you mean features like: Trolling aside, please keep in mind that IE/Win32 and IE/MacOS are not the same application. From what I understand, they are developed by completely separate groups and have more or less completely separate codebases. As far as I know, ActiveX doesn't exist on MacOS -- Microsoft's software seems to function by other means, just like everything else on MacOS. shall I go on? Only if you promise to be a bit more relevant as you continue :) and can be used for testing web page development. doesn't Netscape do it for you? Well your choices there are Netscape 4.x, which requires you to launch Classic and, oh yeah, it sucks, or Netscape 6.0/Mozilla, which requires an obscene amount of resources -- even moreso under Aqua than other platforms I've tried it with, and much more than can be expected of a mere iMac -- and it's still not as nice as IE on many levels. So, speaking for myself, no, Netscape doesn't do anything for me. I've heard good things about iCab, should I delete IE and put in that instead? I need javascript too. dunno .. not tried iCab .. will Opera run under OSX? ... Yes I believe so. The other popular one is Omniweb, which I liked but not as much as I like IE. Still have it installed though, and use it from time to time. You do have some pretty good choices: just don't use Netscape :) -- Chris Devers Okay, Gene... so, -1 x -1 should equal what? A South American! [] no human can understand the Timecube and Gene responded without missing a beat Yeah. I'm not human.
Re: Diversity (was Re: Dan Sugalski calling all mongers groups)
On 1 Feb 2002, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Newton, == Newton, Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Newton, I think there's just not enough time to do everything ... be an Newton, active Perlmonk, do #perl on IRC, follow clpm, read Perlmonth Newton, [which I heard is dead now?], do the use.perl thing (discussion Newton, and/or diary), hang out with Perl mongers both IRL and on a Newton, mailing list, etc. etc. Unless you consider it your job, or (gasp) your life. :) Yeah, sometimes I even find time to other stuff between those activities. /J\
Re: Is it a bird ?
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Robin Houston wrote:
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 09:52:51AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is at least one quine that works for almost every programming
language; the empty quine. But that's cheating really.
[robin@puffinry robin]$ touch empty.c
[robin@puffinry robin]$ gcc empty.c
/usr/lib/crt1.o(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `main'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
Well I guess this had to come full circle as it started out with me
feeding random files from my home directory into perl to see what would
would happen :
[gellyfish@orpheus gellyfish]$ touch foo.c
[gellyfish@orpheus gellyfish]$ gcc foo.c
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/2.96/../../../crt1.o: In function
`_start':
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/2.96/../../../crt1.o(.text+0x18):
undefined reference to `main'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[gellyfish@orpheus gellyfish]$ gcc -D''=main(){} foo.c
command line: macro names must be identifiers
gcc: Internal error: Segmentation fault (program cpp0)
Please submit a full bug report.
See URL:http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/ for instructions.
;-}
Well I didn't succeed in finding any bugs in Perl
/J\
Re: OSX
Robert == Robert Shiels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert Seriously, I'd like to know if something else has all the features and can Robert be used for testing web page development. I've heard good things about iCab, Robert should I delete IE and put in that instead? I need javascript too. I use iCab as my primary browser. It's still sluggish on some things, and I'm not sure why. And there are times when it freaks out, so I have IE handy as well. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: OSX
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:49:24AM +, Simon Wistow wrote: On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:23:02AM -, Robert Shiels said: I'm not convinced by the micro-payments model. Neither am I. The best response to this I've seen is from the boys from Penny Arcade http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-06-22 Animated version at : http://www.damnspiffy.com/pa/pa003.htm and a send up of Scott 'Understanding Comics' Mcloud's I just can't stop thinking! strip at http://www.thecomicreader.com/html/icst/icst-6/icst-6.html Hmm, that last one seems like rather a ringing endorsement, and fairly well argued case for the implementation of micro-payments. (It is possible to do micro-payments with paypal, and there is even a web/xml interface to it. (Not a lot of people know that!)). Of course, there's vastly more to it than having a broker, and a good argument... Paul -- Paul Makepeace ... http://paulm.com/ What is my surname? Caffeine free Coke will probably not work on this. -- http://paulm.com/toys/surrealism/
