Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 19/11/2012 17:29, Dave Cross wrote: What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? I know Tim will not blow his own trumpet but ... One of the biggies was and is DBI. We used oraperl and ingperl (perl5 stuff) prior to DBI and did the oraperl v6 to v7 migration - even in those long ago days, perl was being used with real databases for real business apps. Another biggie was mod_perl,fastCGI and MP's precursor/ standin/placeholder - cgi-minisvr.
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? Templating modules (embperl, Template Toolkit and Mason) seemed a considerable step-forward for me at the time and hopefully contributed to more maintainable code. Matt
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Randy J. Ray rj...@blackperl.com: 1/ Technical What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? I'd be sure to mention the strong role Perl played in the emergence of CGI applications-- both the Perl 4 cgilib.pl and Perl 5's CGI.pm. I came in to Perl just a year or two before 5.000 rolled out, so I can't talk to much from the pre-5 era. (My job at the time was using Perl on a large scale to do software configuration management (20+ application scripts, 15+ libraries, ~70,000 LOC), which I ended up transitioning from Perl 4 to Perl 5.) Yeah. I'd already got CGI.pm, but had forgotten about cgilib.pl. Thanks for the reminder. 2/ Community What community initiatives should I cover? Can I mention TPI without giving some people nightmares? How much detail can I cover about Perl Mongers? Which conferences deserve a mention? Does anyone remember how and when YAS became TPF? Don't forget The Perl Journal. Not only was it a useful resource, it gave a number of people a leg up into going from just using Perl, to writing about it and becoming more active members of the community as a result. At least, that was the case with me-- Jon Orwant invited me to write about AutoLoader/AutoSplit after I'd done some work fleshing out the docs for the core, and that directly led into writing more, and eventually becoming a CPAN contributor, book author, etc. Already got TPJ on the list. I'm pretty sure that my article in TPJ was the first time I was paid for writing about Perl (an article about Symbol::Approx::Sub - just sneaked into the last standalone issue). Cheers, Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting David H. Adler d...@panix.com: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:29:29PM +, Dave Cross wrote: At the LPW on Saturday I'm giving a talk entitled 25 Years of Perl. I have the structure of the talk, and I have worked out most of the things that I want to cover. But I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything important. So I thought I'd turn to the london.pm hivemind. What parts of Perl's history do you think are important. I'm particularly interested in two areas. 1/ Technical What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? You're going to cover the Acme:: namespace, of course? [insert evil grin here] Yes. There's a couple of posts on Perl Monks that nicely trace the beginning of Leon's namespace :) 2/ Community What community initiatives should I cover? Can I mention TPI without giving some people nightmares? How much detail can I cover about Perl Mongers? Which conferences deserve a mention? Does anyone remember how and when YAS became TPF? If memory serves, YAS didn't become TPF. They were separate entities, as was Perl Mongers. At a certain point, Kevin decided he didn't want to run YAS anymore and brian decided not to run Perl Mongers anymore (they both had other stuff that was taking up their time). As a result, they were both absorbed into TPF. Wikipedia says PM became part of TPF in 2000, but that feels too early to me. You should probably check further for a real date. brian might know. Yeah, I'd think more like 2002. I'll check with Kevin and/or brian. Although it only goes up to 2002, the Perl Timeline (Elaine's work, iirc) at http://history.perl.org would probably be of some use to you. A lot of links there, too, including Jon Orwant's interview with Perl.com about the demise of TPI (sadly, not including his statement He was from the planet Blobnar). In other news, the entire first page of google results for blobnar orwant is the result of my sigfile. Elaine's history page is being a *big* help. More seriously, though, I think TPI is probably worth including, but I wouldn't dwell on it. I don't think anyone would like to dwell on it :) As far as detail on PM, what are you thinking of including. Unless you're referencing something from a non-public list, I can't imagine there's much that would be a problem. I'm pretty much sorted with Perl Mongers. I was involved with most of that. Cheers, Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Jacqui Caren jacqui.ca...@ntlworld.com: On 19/11/2012 17:29, Dave Cross wrote: What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? I know Tim will not blow his own trumpet but ... One of the biggies was and is DBI. We used oraperl and ingperl (perl5 stuff) prior to DBI and did the oraperl v6 to v7 migration - even in those long ago days, perl was being used with real databases for real business apps. I already had DBI on my list (of course!) Another biggie was mod_perl,fastCGI and MP's precursor/ standin/placeholder - cgi-minisvr. Got mod_perl and FastCGI. I'd never heard of cgi-minsvr. Thanks. Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Matt Freake matthew.d.fre...@gmail.com: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? Templating modules (embperl, Template Toolkit and Mason) seemed a considerable step-forward for me at the time and hopefully contributed to more maintainable code. Yeah. Got TT and Mason on my list. Was Embperl ever really important. I know I have a strong aversion to it (and I think you might also have the same aversion - engendered by the same project). Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:29:29PM +, Dave Cross wrote: At the LPW on Saturday I'm giving a talk entitled 25 Years of Perl. I have the structure of the talk, and I have worked out most of the things that I want to cover. But I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything important. So I thought I'd turn to the london.pm hivemind. What parts of Perl's history do you think are important. I'm particularly interested in two areas. 1/ Technical What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? While not a CPAN module, Matt's script archive needs to be mentioned. Althought it contained a lot of bad code, it certainly contributed to the notion that Perl was *the* web language. 2/ Community What community initiatives should I cover? Can I mention TPI without giving some people nightmares? How much detail can I cover about Perl Mongers? Which conferences deserve a mention? Does anyone remember how and when YAS became TPF? Conferences that need mentioning: TPC, German Perl Workshop (first Perl conference outside of TPC), YAPC, OSCON. And, considering where you're going to give the presentation: LPW. 2000 may be an interesting year: at YAPC::NA 19100, we saw the birth of YAS, the Perl 6 movement started at TPC 2000, and the first non-NA YAPC was held in London. It's slightly unfortunate that I've only been involved with Perl for about 60% of its lifetime. So anything you can share from the first ten years or so of Perl's existence would be *really* appreciated. I started using Perl in 1995, when the main focus on the community was on Usenet. At that time, it was just comp.lang.perl; the split into multiple groups was either late 1995, or early 1996. I first joined a Perl IRC channel in 1997, but I don't know when that channel started. But it was this channel that made YAPC happen (well, it was Kevin that did the work, but if it wasn't for the IRC channel, there would not have been demand, or participants for the first YAPC). I would love to hear your presentation, unfortunally, I couldn't get a trip to LPW funded. Abigail
Re: 25 Years of Perl
I don't know how much you can mention individuals without annoying the people you leave out, but it would be interesting to hear when some notables got involved in Perl, and what their first contributions were. I'll leave it to the reader to decide who they think those people should be. On 20 November 2012 10:27, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:29:29PM +, Dave Cross wrote: At the LPW on Saturday I'm giving a talk entitled 25 Years of Perl. I have the structure of the talk, and I have worked out most of the things that I want to cover. But I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything important. So I thought I'd turn to the london.pm hivemind. What parts of Perl's history do you think are important. I'm particularly interested in two areas. 1/ Technical What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? While not a CPAN module, Matt's script archive needs to be mentioned. Althought it contained a lot of bad code, it certainly contributed to the notion that Perl was *the* web language. 2/ Community What community initiatives should I cover? Can I mention TPI without giving some people nightmares? How much detail can I cover about Perl Mongers? Which conferences deserve a mention? Does anyone remember how and when YAS became TPF? Conferences that need mentioning: TPC, German Perl Workshop (first Perl conference outside of TPC), YAPC, OSCON. And, considering where you're going to give the presentation: LPW. 2000 may be an interesting year: at YAPC::NA 19100, we saw the birth of YAS, the Perl 6 movement started at TPC 2000, and the first non-NA YAPC was held in London. It's slightly unfortunate that I've only been involved with Perl for about 60% of its lifetime. So anything you can share from the first ten years or so of Perl's existence would be *really* appreciated. I started using Perl in 1995, when the main focus on the community was on Usenet. At that time, it was just comp.lang.perl; the split into multiple groups was either late 1995, or early 1996. I first joined a Perl IRC channel in 1997, but I don't know when that channel started. But it was this channel that made YAPC happen (well, it was Kevin that did the work, but if it wasn't for the IRC channel, there would not have been demand, or participants for the first YAPC). I would love to hear your presentation, unfortunally, I couldn't get a trip to LPW funded. Abigail -- Jasper
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Quoting Chris Benson chr...@ccandc.org: Back before there were modules: the earliest version I used (3.something) came with *2p utilities that were useful in their own right and enabled bootstrapping knowledge from find, sed and especially in my case awk: Weren't those utilities only removed from Perl in the last couple of years? a2p and s2p are still in blead today, and I'm not aware of a concrete plan to move them out to CPAN. But there were several Perl 4-era libraries (getopt.pl, open2.pl, etc) that got removed from core in 5.16, and now live on CPAN in Perl4::CoreLibs. -- Aaron Crane ** http://aaroncrane.co.uk/
Re: Duct Tape Quotation
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:02:05PM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: 1995 Economist 1 JulyThe..servers that make up the most popular part of the Internet are often written in Perl, and virtually all Web-based information exchanges are handled with the language. that is bizarre. they must be conflating cgi/perl apps with the web servers themselves. and no way did 100% of the web exchange run on perl. i can't guess percentage but c was in heavy use for crawlers and such. but this is not a quote from a technical source so it can be just amusing anyway. Maybe they are being economical with the truth (not sure when that phrase was invented either). More likely not knowing what they were talking about:
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Abigail abig...@abigail.be: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:29:29PM +, Dave Cross wrote: At the LPW on Saturday I'm giving a talk entitled 25 Years of Perl. I have the structure of the talk, and I have worked out most of the things that I want to cover. But I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything important. So I thought I'd turn to the london.pm hivemind. What parts of Perl's history do you think are important. I'm particularly interested in two areas. 1/ Technical What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? While not a CPAN module, Matt's script archive needs to be mentioned. Althought it contained a lot of bad code, it certainly contributed to the notion that Perl was *the* web language. I has already swallowed my pride and added Matt's scripts to the list :-/ 2/ Community What community initiatives should I cover? Can I mention TPI without giving some people nightmares? How much detail can I cover about Perl Mongers? Which conferences deserve a mention? Does anyone remember how and when YAS became TPF? Conferences that need mentioning: TPC, German Perl Workshop (first Perl conference outside of TPC), YAPC, OSCON. And, considering where you're going to give the presentation: LPW. 2000 may be an interesting year: at YAPC::NA 19100, we saw the birth of YAS, the Perl 6 movement started at TPC 2000, and the first non-NA YAPC was held in London. Yep. Got all of those. Need to check the date of the first German Perl Workshop - but I know that's on their web site. It's slightly unfortunate that I've only been involved with Perl for about 60% of its lifetime. So anything you can share from the first ten years or so of Perl's existence would be *really* appreciated. I started using Perl in 1995, when the main focus on the community was on Usenet. At that time, it was just comp.lang.perl; the split into multiple groups was either late 1995, or early 1996. I first joined a Perl IRC channel in 1997, but I don't know when that channel started. But it was this channel that made YAPC happen (well, it was Kevin that did the work, but if it wasn't for the IRC channel, there would not have been demand, or participants for the first YAPC). Interesting. I can't remember when I first joined a Perl IRC channel. Maybe 1998/9. I would love to hear your presentation, unfortunally, I couldn't get a trip to LPW funded. That's a shame. I don't know whether it'll be filmed. Perhaps I'll put together a screencast later on. Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Yeah. Got TT and Mason on my list. Was Embperl ever really important. I know I have a strong aversion to it (and I think you might also have the same aversion - engendered by the same project). That project was the only one where I used a proper templating system, so I felt obliged to mention it :-) I did struggle to find others using it though, when searching for support/online resources/etc (although Gerald himself was always very helpful)
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:29:29PM +, Dave Cross wrote: At the LPW on Saturday I'm giving a talk entitled 25 Years of Perl Great idea. An amusing anecdote from the very early days that illustrates how Perl attracted some of its early users is that merlyn relentlessly answered requests for Unix sed, awk, and shell help with snippets of *Perl* code. Indeed, he did this so often that posters began inserting No Perl please in their posts! As you might expect, that served only to increase the volume of Perl snippet responses. Because merlyn knew shell, sed and awk so well, he could answer questions in the requested language ... and then compare and contrast with a more elegant Perl solution. BTW, I believe this at least partly explains why merlyn formed part of the 2.7% who voted _against_ the formation of a separate comp.lang.perl newsgroup in 1989. The old use.perl.org links to verify this are broken unfortunately. Though I found a wayback machine link: http://web.archive.org/web/20041225063326/http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=10975cid=16619 Oh, and here is a (hopefully not broken) link to the original 1989 vote for comp.lang.perl, carried by 205 votes to 7: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/news.groups/bjii5Z9iJgY/RgAl62J00OUJ /-\
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 20 Nov 2012, at 09:09, Jacqui Caren jacqui.ca...@ntlworld.com wrote: I know Tim will not blow his own trumpet but ... One of the biggies was and is DBI. We take it so much for granted that you could connect to any number of different database engines with the same perl binary these days, or with any other programming language too, but really perl led the world here. This was quietly revolutionary. How many webhosts do we think would ship several perls for several different database engines? /j
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Andrew Savige ajsav...@yahoo.com.au: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:29:29PM +, Dave Cross wrote: At the LPW on Saturday I'm giving a talk entitled 25 Years of Perl Great idea. An amusing anecdote from the very early days that illustrates how Perl attracted some of its early users is that merlyn relentlessly answered requests for Unix sed, awk, and shell help with snippets of *Perl* code. Indeed, he did this so often that posters began inserting No Perl please in their posts! As you might expect, that served only to increase the volume of Perl snippet responses. Because merlyn knew shell, sed and awk so well, he could answer questions in the requested language ... and then compare and contrast with a more elegant Perl solution. BTW, I believe this at least partly explains why merlyn formed part of the 2.7% who voted _against_ the formation of a separate comp.lang.perl newsgroup in 1989. The old use.perl.org links to verify this are broken unfortunately. Though I found a wayback machine link: http://web.archive.org/web/20041225063326/http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=10975cid=16619 Thanks. I remember reading most of that before. Oh, and here is a (hopefully not broken) link to the original 1989 vote for comp.lang.perl, carried by 205 votes to 7: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/news.groups/bjii5Z9iJgY/RgAl62J00OUJ That, however, I hadn't thought of tracking down. Brilliant. Thank you! Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:09:34PM +, James Laver wrote: We take it so much for granted that you could connect to any number of different database engines with the same perl binary these days, or with any other programming language too, but really perl led the world here. This was quietly revolutionary. How many webhosts do we think would ship several perls for several different database engines? About as many as give you a choice of database engines. Approximately none. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david There's no problem so complex that it can't be solved by killing everyone even remotely associated with it
RE: 25 Years of Perl
Was Embperl ever really important. I know I have a strong aversion to it (and I think you might also have the same aversion - engendered by the same project). That project was the only one where I used a proper templating system, so I felt obliged to mention it :-) I did struggle to find others using it though, when searching for support/online resources/etc (although Gerald himself was always very helpful) I used Embperl some 7 years back, when I used to work for eBookers. And I must say, I really liked it, though I have moved to TT now, but Embperl was not bad. Thanks // AJ
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting David H. Adler d...@panix.com: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:29:29PM +, Dave Cross wrote: 2/ Community What community initiatives should I cover? Can I mention TPI without giving some people nightmares? How much detail can I cover about Perl Mongers? Which conferences deserve a mention? Does anyone remember how and when YAS became TPF? If memory serves, YAS didn't become TPF. They were separate entities, as was Perl Mongers. At a certain point, Kevin decided he didn't want to run YAS anymore and brian decided not to run Perl Mongers anymore (they both had other stuff that was taking up their time). As a result, they were both absorbed into TPF. Wikipedia says PM became part of TPF in 2000, but that feels too early to me. You should probably check further for a real date. brian might know. So it turns out that one of the best sources of information about this is... er... me... writing on Perl Monks in 2001. In July 2001, Perl Monks (and Perl Mongers) announced that they were merging with Yet Another Society (the people that organise the YAPC conferences). In December 2001, YAS announced that they were setting up an internal unit called The Perl Foundation to handle all of their Perl work (YAS also works with other Open Source technologies). Perl Monks and Perl Mongers both became part of The Perl Foundation. http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=203263 That davorg chap is awesome :-) Cheers, Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Andrew == Andrew Savige ajsav...@yahoo.com.au writes: Andrew An amusing anecdote from the very early days that illustrates how Andrew Perl attracted some of its early users is that merlyn relentlessly Andrew answered requests for Unix sed, awk, and shell help with snippets Andrew of *Perl* code. Indeed, he did this so often that posters began Andrew inserting No Perl please in their posts! As you might expect, Andrew that served only to increase the volume of Perl snippet Andrew responses. Those were good times. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 mer...@stonehenge.com URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 06:10:42AM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Andrew == Andrew Savige ajsav...@yahoo.com.au writes: Andrew An amusing anecdote from the very early days that illustrates how Andrew Perl attracted some of its early users is that merlyn relentlessly Andrew answered requests for Unix sed, awk, and shell help with snippets Andrew of *Perl* code. Indeed, he did this so often that posters began Andrew inserting No Perl please in their posts! As you might expect, Andrew that served only to increase the volume of Perl snippet Andrew responses. Those were good times. :) The same fun can be had on Perlmonks, by answering questions with shell one-liners. Abigail
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com: in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some actually learned perl. Yes. I'm well aware of the effects of Matt's scripts. In fact I think I may have already mentioned that in this very discussion. Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Simon Dick sim...@irrelevant.org: On 20 November 2012 15:45, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote: [ snip ] in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some actually learned perl. Especially FormMail.pl... I remember that one well... If anyone is unaware of the London Perl Mongers' reaction to Matt's scripts, you should probably read http://www.scriptarchive.com/nms.html Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Dave Cross said:
What parts of Perl's history do you think are important. I'm
particularly interested in two areas.
1/ Technical
2/ Community
FWIW, I think the decision to start with time-based releases of Perl5
was a good one, and probably worth mentioning. Not sure if that should
be filed under 1/ or 2/. :)
- Salve
--
#!/usr/bin/perl
sub AUTOLOAD{$AUTOLOAD=~/.*::(\d+)/;seek(DATA,$1,0);print# Salve Joshua Nilsen
getc DATA}$='};{';@_=unpack(C*,unpack(u*,':4@,$'.# s...@foo.no
'2!--5-(50P%$PL,!0X354UC-PP%/0\`'.\n));eval {'@_'}; __END__ is near! :)
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 11/20/2012 11:00 AM, Dave Cross wrote: Quoting Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com: in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some actually learned perl. Yes. I'm well aware of the effects of Matt's scripts. In fact I think I may have already mentioned that in this very discussion. you did but i didn't see that before i posted. the number of posts about matt's crap on usenet was enormous. it took the community way too long to rewrite them in clean safe code. that archive is now also forgotten as no one seems to mention them in the age of modern perl and such. uri
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:22:14AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: On 11/20/2012 11:00 AM, Dave Cross wrote: Quoting Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com: in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some actually learned perl. Yes. I'm well aware of the effects of Matt's scripts. In fact I think I may have already mentioned that in this very discussion. you did but i didn't see that before i posted. the number of posts about matt's crap on usenet was enormous. it took the community way too long to rewrite them in clean safe code. that archive is now also forgotten as no one seems to mention them in the age of modern perl and such. That's because the community missed something that the overwhelming majority still seems to miss: easy deployment of ready to use applications. Matt got that part right. Abigail
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Quoting Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com: On 11/20/2012 11:00 AM, Dave Cross wrote: Quoting Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com: in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some actually learned perl. Yes. I'm well aware of the effects of Matt's scripts. In fact I think I may have already mentioned that in this very discussion. you did but i didn't see that before i posted. the number of posts about matt's crap on usenet was enormous. it took the community way too long to rewrite them in clean safe code. I know quite a lot about that too. I drove that initiative :-) that archive is now also forgotten as no one seems to mention them in the age of modern perl and such. Watch this space - http://act.yapc.eu/lpw2012/talk/4239 ! Dave...
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Matt Freake matthew.d.fre...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Yeah. Got TT and Mason on my list. Was Embperl ever really important. I know I have a strong aversion to it (and I think you might also have the same aversion - engendered by the same project). That project was the only one where I used a proper templating system, so I felt obliged to mention it :-) I did struggle to find others using it though, when searching for support/online resources/etc (although Gerald himself was always very helpful) I used Embperl in my first Perl project: a web interface to control and graph (using GD, natch) the ISDN connection on the Linux box acting as a router for the home network. This must have been around 1997-1998. -- The surreality of the universe tends towards a maximum -- Skud's Law Never formulate a law or axiom that you're not prepared to live with the consequences of. -- Skud's Meta-Law
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 20 Nov 2012, at 13:37, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: [...] That davorg chap is awesome :-) We've all known this for years, but didn't want to flatter your ego too much by saying so :)
Re: 25 Years of Perl
Not sure if they would fit on the same league of DBI and TT, but to me LWP and WWW::Mechanize are also true PERL gems. On 19/11/2012 17:29, Dave Cross wrote: What CPAN modules deserve to be mentioned as part of Perl's history? Which Perl infrastructure projects are (or were) important? Are there any other technical things that need to be covered? I know Tim will not blow his own trumpet but ... One of the biggies was and is DBI. We used oraperl and ingperl (perl5 stuff) prior to DBI and did the oraperl v6 to v7 migration - even in those long ago days, perl was being used with real databases for real business apps. Another biggie was mod_perl,fastCGI and MP's precursor/ standin/placeholder - cgi-minisvr.
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 20 Nov 2012, at 16:30, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:22:14AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: On 11/20/2012 11:00 AM, Dave Cross wrote: Quoting Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com: in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some actually learned perl. Yes. I'm well aware of the effects of Matt's scripts. In fact I think I may have already mentioned that in this very discussion. you did but i didn't see that before i posted. the number of posts about matt's crap on usenet was enormous. it took the community way too long to rewrite them in clean safe code. that archive is now also forgotten as no one seems to mention them in the age of modern perl and such. That's because the community missed something that the overwhelming majority still seems to miss: easy deployment of ready to use applications. Matt got that part right. As did PHP. And the rest is history.
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 20/11/12 20:42, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: As did PHP. And the rest is history. Speaking of which, is it just a folk memory that suggests that the first 'P' in PHP once stood for perl?
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 11/20/12 1:10 PM, Dirk Koopman wrote: On 20/11/12 20:42, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: As did PHP. And the rest is history. Speaking of which, is it just a folk memory that suggests that the first 'P' in PHP once stood for perl? I thought, for the longest time, that PHP had originally been an acronym for Perl Hypertext Pages. But people deny that, so I can't be sure. -- Randy J. Ray Sunnyvale, CA http://www.rjray.org rj...@blackperl.com twitter.com/rjray Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 11/20/2012 04:17 PM, Randy J. Ray wrote: On 11/20/12 1:10 PM, Dirk Koopman wrote: On 20/11/12 20:42, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: As did PHP. And the rest is history. Speaking of which, is it just a folk memory that suggests that the first 'P' in PHP once stood for perl? I thought, for the longest time, that PHP had originally been an acronym for Perl Hypertext Pages. But people deny that, so I can't be sure. i recall it was perl home pages. and it definitely was written in perl in the earliest versions. note how much of the syntax and other stuff was stolen from perl and then ruined beyond all recognition. uri
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 21/11/2012, at 8:17 AM, Randy J. Ray wrote: On 11/20/12 1:10 PM, Dirk Koopman wrote: On 20/11/12 20:42, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: As did PHP. And the rest is history. Speaking of which, is it just a folk memory that suggests that the first 'P' in PHP once stood for perl? I thought, for the longest time, that PHP had originally been an acronym for Perl Hypertext Pages. But people deny that, so I can't be sure. I was understanding that it stood for Personal Home Page. Which is why at one point I called a Catalyst app I wrote for offline web publishing 'MyPHP' - which clearly stood for My Personal Home Page. I should probably rewrite it using Dancer or Flask or something.
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 21/11/2012, at 8:29 AM, Uri Guttman wrote: On 11/20/2012 04:17 PM, Randy J. Ray wrote: On 11/20/12 1:10 PM, Dirk Koopman wrote: On 20/11/12 20:42, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: As did PHP. And the rest is history. Speaking of which, is it just a folk memory that suggests that the first 'P' in PHP once stood for perl? I thought, for the longest time, that PHP had originally been an acronym for Perl Hypertext Pages. But people deny that, so I can't be sure. i recall it was perl home pages. and it definitely was written in perl in the earliest versions. note how much of the syntax and other stuff was stolen from perl and then ruined beyond all recognition. I was also under the impression that PHP took the worst bits of perl and went off on that trajectory.
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 20/11/12 21:17, Randy J. Ray wrote: On 11/20/12 1:10 PM, Dirk Koopman wrote: On 20/11/12 20:42, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: As did PHP. And the rest is history. Speaking of which, is it just a folk memory that suggests that the first 'P' in PHP once stood for perl? I thought, for the longest time, that PHP had originally been an acronym for Perl Hypertext Pages. But people deny that, so I can't be sure. Wikipedia says: PHP development began in 1994 when the programmer Rasmus Lerdorf initially created a set of Perl scripts he called Personal Home Page Tools to maintain his personal homepage. The scripts performed tasks such as displaying his résumé and recording his web-page traffic.[6][9][10] Lerdorf initially announced the release of PHP on the comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi Usenet discussion group on June 8, 1995.[11].
