Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:37:45PM +0100, Nigel Rantor wrote: You may all get your rocks ready for this one, I expect a stoning from the zealots. (and Lusercop because he can't resist a good stoning) :-) I don't tend to reply to buffy threads, not particularly agreeing with the apparent general trend towards liking it. As my current housemate once said in answer to my so what is all the fuss about BtVS and he replied I think the fuss is about two things I've never seen The Prisoner, though I'd like to, from the things I've heard about it. At the moment, though, I'm just too shattered to even try and lift the stone, let alone aiming it and throwing it. ;-) -- Lusercop.net - LARTing Lusers everywhere since 2002
Re: Ob-buffy
* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Twin Peaks winds me up. I remember being in school when it was on, and the kind of people who were into it suffered from two other co-morbidities: 1. They liked Marillion They liked Twin Peaks and Marillion? They clearly are people of exceptionally good taste, imagination and intellect. Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.org.uk/~gem/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED] msn://[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ob-buffy
Curiously, the original article (http://www.reason.com/0308/cr.vp.why.shtml) explains some of why I'm uneasy about buffy: the extent to which it carries Standardized American Memes (good and bad). American tolerance/demand for Moral Closure seems to be very high, cf. all those films where the guy who has been tempted by the dark side dies heroically, etc, etc, etc ... I'll stop here, before this ends up knee-deep in sex, religion, politics, or all three. [Pauses on bridge] [tempts ducks over with stale bread] [fattens ducks] [feeds ducks to trolls] WHAT?! WTF do you mean, best TV series ever? FFS, if I mailed the list and asked what the best way was to sort alphanumerics, find fish, harvest raspberries, or add one, there would be about fifteen different recommendations, two of which would involve Befunge. By the same toucan, best TV series is not a sensible thing to look for. And that's quite apart from being imprisoned in the Cult Zone of Prisoner, Buffy, Dr$Who, Twin Peaks, etc Still, at least it's not Eastenders. /rant ti'
Re: Ob-buffy
Tim Sweetman wrote: be about fifteen different recommendations, two of which would involve Befunge. By the same toucan, best TV series is not a sensible thing to Befunge the Vampire Slayer. That's the best TV series. Ever. -- Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Research Scientist, Expway http://expway.com/ 7FC0 6F5F D864 EFB8 08CE 8E74 58E6 D5DB 4889 2488
Re: Ob-buffy
T'was written... WTF do you mean, best TV series ever? Busty was great but what about the Avengers??? Gaz _ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile
Re: Ob-buffy
On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 11:29:12AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Twin Peaks winds me up. I remember being in school when it was on, and the kind of people who were into it suffered from two other co-morbidities: 1. They liked Marillion They liked Twin Peaks and Marillion? They clearly are people of exceptionally good taste, imagination and intellect. Uh... we've learned to ignore grep, right? :-) dha, who has actually seen Marillion live, but can't remember for whom they were opening... -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ A picture is worth several hundred thousand words... in the right haiku - Damian Conway
Re: Ob-buffy
On 3 Sep 2003 at 17:28, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Twin Peaks winds me up. I remember being in school when it was on, and the kind of people who were into it suffered from two other co-morbidities: 1. They liked Marillion 2. They tried to understand R.E.M. lyrics I never watched it but I remember that when I was in school (that would be around 1990, I think), the history teacher would occasionally threaten to give away what happened in a future Twin Peaks episode if people weren't attentive (when Germany was in the middle of the series but he had seen it all in Scotland, or something). Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ob-buffy
Nigel Rantor wrote: Hopefully Lynch hasn't completely given away the idea of coming back to TV... And Wild Palms was forgettable. Well, I saw it and now it is forgotten. I've seen it. I some point I was looking at the original comic books (never found them). It's true that the first episodes have some lynchean colour, (not mentioning the presence of Robert Loggia), but Lynch didn't participate in them, did he ? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106175/
Re: Ob-buffy
Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote: I've seen it. I some point I was looking at the original comic books (never found them). It's true that the first episodes have some lynchean colour, (not mentioning the presence of Robert Loggia), but Lynch didn't participate in them, did he ? Before I saw it I just got this weird vibe through the jungle that it was meant to be 'lynchean', and that ollie stone was directing it. To be honest, I think maybe they we're trying to imbue some of Twin Peaks' surreality but then again I only saw the series, I didn't read WP before hand so I'm not sure what the original they were working with was like. I don't beleive lynch participated, at least (as you point out on imdb) he isn't actually credited. Who knows what goes on though, these guys must get together and hack code (figurativley) with one another. Anyway, I remember being really excited when I heard about it, perhaps if I had my anti-hype muffs back then I wouldn't have been so disappointed. I think part of the problem was also that I missed a couple (because I didn't care about the story/characters anymore) and that just made it awful to follow. Actually, maybe I'll see if anyone has it and just watch it back-to-back...hmm... N p.s. Wow, I can ramble, can't I?
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 12:55:14PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: Frankly, I think comparing those shows to buffy is misguided. It's sort of like trying to compare 8 1/2 to the Philadelphia Story. Ok, maybe not quite *that* extreme. well, i'd prefer to watch Hepburn Grant in _Bringing Up Baby_; and i think Stewart is better when he's not *just* being nice (it's more interesting if there are complications) - especially in _The Man from Laramie_, also _Vertigo_. whereas 8½ is clearly Fellini's best film. so 8½ is better. OTOH, i've never seen more than a minute or 2 of Buffy, so i can't really compare it to anything. -- Phil Lanch0xD78D598DA6635CF32AB24593C98994B7D95B33E3 (i even know the passphrase: http://www.subtle.clara.co.uk/rephrase ) If I knew then what I know now, I would have said 'I don't recall'.
Re: Ob-buffy
On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 06:44:02PM +0100, Phil Lanch wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 12:55:14PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: Frankly, I think comparing those shows to buffy is misguided. It's sort of like trying to compare 8 1/2 to the Philadelphia Story. Ok, maybe not quite *that* extreme. well, i'd prefer to watch Hepburn Grant in _Bringing Up Baby_; and i think Stewart is better when he's not *just* being nice (it's more interesting if there are complications) - especially in _The Man from Laramie_, also _Vertigo_. whereas 8½ is clearly Fellini's best film. so 8½ is better. Of course, by that reasoning, Night of the Ghouls is better, as it's Ed Wood's best film. :-) I'll admit to Bringing Up Baby being better than Philadelphia Story, but I still think there's a disconnect there, as they're very different films, albeit less so than my original comparison. In any case, my point was that there are things that are sufficiently different that to call one better than the other isn't necessarily a reasonable thing. I'm quite sure that a whole lot of people do *not* think think 8 1/2 is good at all. Although they would be *wrong* :-), we're walking through the valley of personal preference more than anything else at that point. dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Its a whole new kind of boredom. - Ash (The ICT Tech with a soul)
Ob-buffy
http://www.reason.com/0308/cr.vp.why.shtml -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: Ob-buffy
On 3 Sep 2003, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: http://www.reason.com/0308/cr.vp.why.shtml Sorry for me this The mere existence of Buffy proves the declinists wrong about one thing: Hollywood commercialism can produce great art. Complex and evolving characters turns the whole article into shite. Hollywood commercialism had it's chance with Buffy and produced the movie - truly awful rubbish that nearly frightened any TV network from buying the show when Joss finally got complete control to make it himself. Still - it was the best TV ever made ;) Jason Clifford -- UKFSN.ORG Finance Free Software while you surf the 'net http://www.ukfsn.org/ ADSL Broadband available now
Re: Ob-buffy
At 08:38 -0700 9/3/03, Dave Cross wrote: Still - it was the best TV ever made ;) You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? Ah, the ignorance of youth... ;-) Liz
Re: Ob-buffy
Dave Cross wrote: From: Jason Clifford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/3/03 2:51:26 PM [ BtVS ] Still - it was the best TV ever made ;) You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? Have you seen the last episode of The Prisoner and if so would you also consider that to be the best TV ever made? Or maybe some of the worse... -- 1024/D9C69DF9 Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote: Still - it was the best TV ever made ;) You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? Ah, the ignorance of youth... ;-) I am not that young and I watched both The Prisoner and Twin Peaks. Neither is as good in my opinion. Jason Clifford -- UKFSN.ORG Finance Free Software while you surf the 'net http://www.ukfsn.org/ ADSL Broadband available now
Re: Ob-buffy
On 03/09/2003 at 17:16 +0200, Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote: Indeed BtVS is, at a rarely-precedented level, the work of one man. It's clear, when watching interviews of the scenarists or other members of the team, that Whedon had control over every aspect of the show. I know no other example of this on TV, except McGoohan and the Prisoner. Babylon 5 is an obvious counter-example, given JMS wrote most of the three central seasons single-handed as well as the overarching five-year arc. (Buffy, in so far as it had arcs, were single-season only. Nowhere near as impressive. Whedon wrote far fewer episodes too.) I don't think either Whedon or Straczynski had particularly strong bargaining powers positions with the studios, either. -- :: paul :: historic light cone
Re: Ob-buffy
Rafael == Rafael Garcia-Suarez [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rafael Indeed BtVS is, at a rarely-precedented level, the work of one man. Rafael It's clear, when watching interviews of the scenarists or other members Rafael of the team, that Whedon had control over every aspect of the show. I Rafael know no other example of this on TV, except McGoohan and the Prisoner. B5? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: Ob-buffy
Paul Mison wrote: Babylon 5 is an obvious counter-example, First time I encounter this title. I think it was never broadcast in France, at least not on a public channel. Or is it ancient ?
Re: Ob-buffy
Dave Cross wrote: You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? While Twin Peaks was pretty good, (and I enjoyed the companion movie as well), I don't think it has the same level of achievement and homogeneity than Buffy and the Prisoner. It's more like a testbed for Lynch's next movies. Hopefully Lynch hasn't completely given away the idea of coming back to TV...
Re: Ob-buffy
At 16:47 +0100 9/3/03, Steve Mynott wrote: Dave Cross wrote: Have you seen the last episode of The Prisoner and if so would you also consider that to be the best TV ever made? Or maybe some of the worse... A think a lot has been said and written about the last episode of The Prisoner. I'm pretty sure that that episode wasn't anywhere near what Patrick McGoohan intended: There are many theories, some quite fanciful, as to why The Prisoner was made up of seventeen episodes - an extremely unlikely number in anyone's book. The simple truth is that, despite it's cult status today, the series bombed on it's first showing and the production, over budget and out of time, was cancelled. The cast and crew, with sixteen episodes filmed (but not necessarily completed), were told that they could make only one more episode to wrap up the loose ends - an episode unwritten and unscripted, yet due to go into production the following week! From: http://www.the-prisoner-6.freeserve.co.uk/episode_aftermath.htm Liz
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote: Paul Mison wrote: Babylon 5 is an obvious counter-example, First time I encounter this title. I think it was never broadcast in France, at least not on a public channel. Or is it ancient ? It was on Canal + a few years ago. I don't think it ever made it to regular channels. Michel Rodriguez Perl amp; XML http://www.xmltwig.com
Re: Ob-buffy
Still - it was the best TV ever made ;) You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? Ah, the ignorance of youth... ;-) I am not that young and I watched both The Prisoner and Twin Peaks. Neither is as good in my opinion. Twin Peaks winds me up. I remember being in school when it was on, and the kind of people who were into it suffered from two other co-morbidities: 1. They liked Marillion 2. They tried to understand R.E.M. lyrics Neither is the sign of a well ordered mind. But yeah, the walking backwards bit was good. Anyway if we are ruling out comedies, then Northern Exposure was the best TV series ever made. Or Dr Who minus all the crap ones. Otherwise it's obviously The Simpsons :-)
Re: Ob-buffy
Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote: Dave Cross wrote: You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? While Twin Peaks was pretty good, (and I enjoyed the companion movie as well), I don't think it has the same level of achievement and homogeneity than Buffy and the Prisoner. It's more like a testbed for Lynch's next movies. Hopefully Lynch hasn't completely given away the idea of coming back to TV... And Wild Palms was forgettable. Well, I saw it and now it is forgotten. QED. It was a shame really, I liked TP, the movie was okay. Although I can't say I ever got as wildly excited as some of my friends. The Prisoner was great, dated far too easily, and it's a shame that no-one rated it when it came out so it died a very quick death in terms of production. B5 is awesome. I didn't get into it when it first came out and now need to see it all the way through. You may all get your rocks ready for this one, I expect a stoning from the zealots. (and Lusercop because he can't resist a good stoning) Buffy the TV series is a far too pale imitation of the movie to ever really make me watch it. Basically it just pisses me off. The plots and characters are, quite frankly, a bag of shite. I figure that since any Buffy criticism is going to be met with a hail of bullets I may as well tell you guys what I tell my friends. The worst thing they did was make it into a TV series. (Along with lots of other great movies like Highlander, American Grafitti etc etc). N
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 12:55:14PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:28:34PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Anyway if we are ruling out comedies, then Northern Exposure was the best TV series ever made. Or Dr Who minus all the crap ones. What? Crap DW?? Never! Timelash. R
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:28:34PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Still - it was the best TV ever made ;) You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? Ah, the ignorance of youth... ;-) I am not that young and I watched both The Prisoner and Twin Peaks. Neither is as good in my opinion. Frankly, I think comparing those shows to buffy is misguided. It's sort of like trying to compare 8 1/2 to the Philadelphia Story. Ok, maybe not quite *that* extreme. Twin Peaks winds me up. I remember being in school when it was on, and the kind of people who were into it suffered from two other co-morbidities: 1. They liked Marillion Nope. 2. They tried to understand R.E.M. lyrics Only if really bored. Twin Peaks was unique. It's a kind of television that pretty much doesn't exist otherwise. I find it hard to do any kind of comparisons to it. That said, I don't think it's something everyone will appreciate. Anyway if we are ruling out comedies, then Northern Exposure was the best TV series ever made. Or Dr Who minus all the crap ones. What? Crap DW?? Never! Well, ok, Revenge of the Cybermen. And The War Games is way too long. And those dinosaurs... Um. Forget I said anything. :-) Otherwise it's obviously The Simpsons :-) Ok, that's up there. dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ We honestly don't want to see another technicolored cow. - the #macintosh faq
Re: Ob-buffy
Nigel == Nigel Rantor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Nigel Buffy the TV series is a far too pale imitation of the movie to ever
Nigel really make me watch it. Basically it just pisses me off. The plots
Nigel and characters are, quite frankly, a bag of shite. I figure that since
Nigel any Buffy criticism is going to be met with a hail of bullets I may as
Nigel well tell you guys what I tell my friends.
And SMG has never been naked ('cept for a couple of nipple slips in
one of the Scream/Summer movies, I forget which), but Kristy Swanson
recently appeared in Playboy. Yum. That makes KS superior, and therefore
the movie superior.
:-)
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:16:58PM +0200, Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote: It's clear, when watching interviews of the scenarists or other members of the team, that Whedon had control over every aspect of the show. I know no other example of this on TV, except McGoohan and the Prisoner. David E. Kelly wrote almost every episode of all of his shows. I'm not sure how much control he had beyond that, but as he often had 3 of them running simultaneously, it's still quite an impressive feat... Tony
Re: Ob-buffy
David H. Adler wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:37:45PM +0100, Nigel Rantor wrote: Buffy the TV series is a far too pale imitation of the movie to ever really make me watch it. You realize, of course, that the movie was completely changed from its original concept and that the tv series is much closer to what the creator envisioned, right? Well, to be honest, when all is said and done I can only comment on whether or not I liked the finished product. Which I did. You may be right that the series is closer to the original author's vision but that really doesn't affect my opinion of the movie or tv show. So, yes, maybe I like something that the author wasn't completely happy with. Well, so what? I liked it. I still do. Just because something does not turn out as the author intended does not make it better or worse. Entertainment is littered with 'happy accidents'. Just checking. Thats cool. N
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 04:47:34PM +0100, Steve Mynott ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Dave Cross wrote: From: Jason Clifford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/3/03 2:51:26 PM [ BtVS ] Still - it was the best TV ever made ;) You jest surely. Have you never seen The Prisoner or Twin Peaks? Have you seen the last episode of The Prisoner and if so would you also consider that to be the best TV ever made? I've seen it many times. I have the DVD. I confess that the last episode isn't exactly my favourite but the series as a whole is brilliant. Or maybe some of the worse... Maybe just the most confusing :) Dave... -- Drugs are just bad m'kay
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:58:18PM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 12:55:14PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:28:34PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Anyway if we are ruling out comedies, then Northern Exposure was the best TV series ever made. Or Dr Who minus all the crap ones. What? Crap DW?? Never! Timelash. I submit. :-) -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Perl should only be studied as a second language. A good first language would be English. - Larry Wall
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 06:29:26PM +0100, Nigel Rantor wrote: David H. Adler wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:37:45PM +0100, Nigel Rantor wrote: Buffy the TV series is a far too pale imitation of the movie to ever really make me watch it. You realize, of course, that the movie was completely changed from its original concept and that the tv series is much closer to what the creator envisioned, right? Well, to be honest, when all is said and done I can only comment on whether or not I liked the finished product. Which I did. Granted. I was just having trouble with the pale imitation part of your argument. :-) dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Religious zealots have a tendency towards mental illness. You really shouldn't expect much more from people who spend that much time trying to prove that their imaginary friend is the *only* imaginary friend. - Mark Rogaski
Re: Ob-buffy
Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote: While Twin Peaks was pretty good, (and I enjoyed the companion movie as well), I don't think it has the same level of achievement and homogeneity than Buffy and the Prisoner. It's more like a testbed for Lynch's next movies. Hopefully Lynch hasn't completely given away the idea of coming back to TV... I couldn't stand Twin Peaks, thought it was utter dross. Same goes for B5. -- David Cantrell | Reprobate | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david While researching this email, I was forced to carry out some investigative work which unfortunately involved a bucket of puppies and a belt sander -- after JoeB, in the Monastery
