[LUTE] Merry Christmas!
Dear lutenists and hang around club ;-) I have now finished my small Christmas carol project of 2008. Three pieces were published a couple of days ago, and now there are two more: * Tuo armon valkokyyhky (related to Es ist ein Ros entsprungen) The melody was first time printed in the Speyer Hymnal, Cologne 1599. In 1609 Michael Praetorius published his version of the song. * Enkeli taivaan (related to Vom Himmel hoch) The melody was selected or composed by Martin Luther, and published first time in 1539 by Valentin Schumann in his Geistliche Lieder. The first Finnish version was published already in 1602 by Hemminki Maskulainen. You'll find all the tabulatures and links to the tubes in page http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/10_courseLute/Carols/ Direct tube links to these two new are: YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feudmiG4HlA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkT_P6ZZxjo Vimeo: http://www.vimeo.com/2571788 http://www.vimeo.com/2571842 It is possible to play these arrangements also by lutes having less than 10 courses: In some songs the basses are not used much, in many cases it is also easy to play the basses an octave higher. In all these arrangements my basses are tuned in white keys: C-D-E-F. I hope my modest tube versions show that the arrangements are playable. Perhaps they also help beginners to find out one way the pieces can be played? Merry Christmas to all and everybody! Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Merry Christmas!
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Arto Wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote: I have now finished my small Christmas carol project of 2008. No, you haven't. You haven't given us the Finnish Father Christmas links yet. David - eagerly waiting -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Recording, Lute Flute making
Ther DPA 4090 is an excellent little microphone, though perhaps a tad noisy for lute with a noise figure of 23dBA (reference 20µPa). Compared to the 10dBA or 11dba from the full line of Sennheiser and Schoeps omnis. A very nice mic nonetheless. dt At 01:00 PM 12/18/2008, you wrote: Dear Lutenetters, In the last few months there have been a few interesting topics and I have a couple of things on my Blog that might be of interest. In regard to the very interesting recording thread, you can find MP3's and a making of Video from the new Pantagruel CD Laydie Louthians Lilte. [1]http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=9492 8060blogID=455450070 It was recorded with a pair of DPA 4090 omni-directional microphones into a PC using a firewire interface. There is no added reverb, compression etc, or overdubs. Just in time for the recording sessions, Martin Shepherd delivered a new 7 course lute. He made some photos of the building process, which can be viewed at... [2]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=380159743 [3]http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=9492 8060blogID=40036 Our flute player upstaged me a bit, in that he built his own renaissance flute for the recording! With the help of the Recorder maker Tim Cranmore.. [4]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=393383588 [5]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=396053865 All the best Mark [6]www.pantagruel.de [7]www.myspace.com/pantagruelian -- References 1. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=94928060blogID=455450070 2. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928060blogID=380159743 3. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=94928060blogID=40036 4. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928060blogID=393383588 5. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928060blogID=396053865 6. http://www.pantagruel.de/ 7. http://www.myspace.com/pantagruelian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] OT: Day Job
Dear Rob, Some very nice guitar playing. Best wishes for Christmas, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com] Sent: 18 December 2008 23:22 To: lute List Subject: [LUTE] OT: Day Job This is my day job: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafdP07YdfUfeature=channel Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafdP07YdfUfeature=channel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Recording, Lute Flute making
Technically that is true, but the main source of noise on recording comes often from other sources than the equipment. We had problems with trucks and other farming things as it was harvest time. So we ended up recording quite late at night for most of the recording. It was also quite windy and you can hear very, very faintly the leaves in the trees blowing outside. But that said the CD is extremely quiet against all the early music recordings we tested it against. Just randomly took a lute CD from the shelf, Paul O'Dette Dowland Vol. 1 and it sounds like someone is using a hair dryer in the background :) Great CD, but I would be unhappy with that amount of background noise. All the best Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: David Tayler [mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Dezember 2008 10:18 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Recording, Lute Flute making Ther DPA 4090 is an excellent little microphone, though perhaps a tad noisy for lute with a noise figure of 23dBA (reference 20µPa). Compared to the 10dBA or 11dba from the full line of Sennheiser and Schoeps omnis. A very nice mic nonetheless. dt At 01:00 PM 12/18/2008, you wrote: Dear Lutenetters, In the last few months there have been a few interesting topics and I have a couple of things on my Blog that might be of interest. In regard to the very interesting recording thread, you can find MP3's and a making of Video from the new Pantagruel CD Laydie Louthians Lilte. [1]http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=9492 8060blogID=455450070 It was recorded with a pair of DPA 4090 omni-directional microphones into a PC using a firewire interface. There is no added reverb, compression etc, or overdubs. Just in time for the recording sessions, Martin Shepherd delivered a new 7 course lute. He made some photos of the building process, which can be viewed at... [2]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=380159743 [3]http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=9492 8060blogID=40036 Our flute player upstaged me a bit, in that he built his own renaissance flute for the recording! With the help of the Recorder maker Tim Cranmore.. [4]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=393383588 [5]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=396053865 All the best Mark [6]www.pantagruel.de [7]www.myspace.com/pantagruelian -- References 1. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=94928060blo gID=455450070 2. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928 060blogID=380159743 3. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=94928060blo gID=40036 4. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928 060blogID=393383588 5. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928 060blogID=396053865 6. http://www.pantagruel.de/ 7. http://www.myspace.com/pantagruelian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Recording, Lute Flute making
Regardless of the noise issue--which, by the way, is nicely controlled on your recording--I would still favour the MKH20, the Schoeps M2 or M2H (but not M2S) or, for a slightly richer sound, the DPA 4003. The thing about the 23dB noise figure is that it limits the mics usefulness for solo recording. It isn't a deal breaker. it just is unnecessary. One reason to have a lower noise floor in the mic is you have the flexibility to place the mic farther as well as near. On the other hand, the mics above have not only less noise but resolve a bit deeper into the sound. But don't take my word for it--record a bit with each and then do a blind taste test. Congratulations on the CD, it sounds great. dt At 01:39 AM 12/19/2008, you wrote: Technically that is true, but the main source of noise on recording comes often from other sources than the equipment. We had problems with trucks and other farming things as it was harvest time. So we ended up recording quite late at night for most of the recording. It was also quite windy and you can hear very, very faintly the leaves in the trees blowing outside. But that said the CD is extremely quiet against all the early music recordings we tested it against. Just randomly took a lute CD from the shelf, Paul O'Dette Dowland Vol. 1 and it sounds like someone is using a hair dryer in the background :) Great CD, but I would be unhappy with that amount of background noise. All the best Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: David Tayler [mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Dezember 2008 10:18 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Recording, Lute Flute making Ther DPA 4090 is an excellent little microphone, though perhaps a tad noisy for lute with a noise figure of 23dBA (reference 20µPa). Compared to the 10dBA or 11dba from the full line of Sennheiser and Schoeps omnis. A very nice mic nonetheless. dt At 01:00 PM 12/18/2008, you wrote: Dear Lutenetters, In the last few months there have been a few interesting topics and I have a couple of things on my Blog that might be of interest. In regard to the very interesting recording thread, you can find MP3's and a making of Video from the new Pantagruel CD Laydie Louthians Lilte. [1]http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=9492 8060blogID=455450070 It was recorded with a pair of DPA 4090 omni-directional microphones into a PC using a firewire interface. There is no added reverb, compression etc, or overdubs. Just in time for the recording sessions, Martin Shepherd delivered a new 7 course lute. He made some photos of the building process, which can be viewed at... [2]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=380159743 [3]http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=9492 8060blogID=40036 Our flute player upstaged me a bit, in that he built his own renaissance flute for the recording! With the help of the Recorder maker Tim Cranmore.. [4]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=393383588 [5]http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriend ID=94928060blogID=396053865 All the best Mark [6]www.pantagruel.de [7]www.myspace.com/pantagruelian -- References 1. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=94928060blo gID=455450070 2. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928 060blogID=380159743 3. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewfriendID=94928060blo gID=40036 4. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928 060blogID=393383588 5. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustomfriendID=94928 060blogID=396053865 6. http://www.pantagruel.de/ 7. http://www.myspace.com/pantagruelian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Peg count on Choc lute
Dear lutenists, Can anyone shed some light on this: Why doe the Choc liuto attiorbato in the Victoria and Albert Museum have 14 pegs on the first peghead? See: http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/furniture/musical_instruments/objects/object.php?action=id=4id2=0hits=page=pages=object_type=country=start_year=end_year=object=artist= Or: http://www.vam.ac.uk/apps/objects/1592_musical_instruments/images/fullsize/7756-1862.jpg Were there still players that used a double first course around the supposed-date-of-origin of this instrument (1650)? Or is it a restoration mistake? Or is there an esthetical reason for it, like the pleasing effect of having equal rows of pegs on both sides of the first peghead? I'm asking partly because Martin de Witte is in the process of making a copy of this instrument for me (I'm very excited) (actually, he's building TWO, one in grenadil and one in yew), and he asked if I wanted 13 or 14 pegs on the first head. I'm going for 14, but I'm very interested in your opinions! Thanks, Jelma van Amersfoort, Amsterdam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Jelma van Amersfoort jel...@gmail.com wrote: Dear lutenists, Can anyone shed some light on this: Why doe the Choc liuto attiorbato in the Victoria and Albert Museum have 14 pegs on the first peghead? Hoi Jelma Double first course. Have a look at all the wonderfull Sellas c attiorbatos in the Cité de la Musique in Paris, so many have a double first course. Even my small archlute has a double first. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Cantio Ruthenica LXXIV
http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/230.pdf http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/230.mp3 http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/230bl.mp3 Amitiés. Enjoy, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What to build.
Yes lighting is everything. I'm sure north light was the be all end all of lighting. Today I have seen luthiers do certain tasks at certain times of day when the light is right. I dream of a north light studio even a tiny one please. Ken -- Original message -- From: Timothy Motz tam...@buckeye-express.com Someone once told me that I needed to read the book, but that no one would really build lutes that way. Having read the book, I would agree. I'm glad he wrote the book and I refer to it a lot, but I wouldn't build a lute that way. Tim Motz On Dec 17, 2008, at 8:12 PM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008, kenp...@comcast.net said: Hi. I can't speak with authority but I think the Lundberg as great as it is did not work out as had been hoped. Yes, He gave a series of lectures in germany; the book pulls that material together. There was considerable trouble getting the results published, no one thought it could ever sell; I suspect he aimed the lectures at people with some experience in building, using a variety of methods. It really is hard to do things entirely using historical technology. Lighting is something we all take for granted for example, try working by lantern and firelight alone sometime; I will grant you modern windows (instead of oiled parchment in frames). -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
Yup-- The double first course is sorta the sleeper in historical lute performance. Along with the double course theorbos. The top course doubled sound terrific at a slightly lower pitch, seamless transition among the top three courses. dt At 04:47 AM 12/19/2008, you wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Jelma van Amersfoort jel...@gmail.com wrote: Dear lutenists, Can anyone shed some light on this: Why doe the Choc liuto attiorbato in the Victoria and Albert Museum have 14 pegs on the first peghead? Hoi Jelma Double first course. Have a look at all the wonderfull Sellas c attiorbatos in the Cité de la Musique in Paris, so many have a double first course. Even my small archlute has a double first. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
Slightly lower pitch, and slightly lower tension; it's two strings now and the whole course should feel (and sound) balanced vis-a-vis the other courses. It need not have literally the same tension as the second course; but the feel of balance should be a steady increase from bass to treble at a certain point- 4th or 3rd course, usually- not a sudden jump in tension. I have been bothered by the double-first issue for many years, and it was not until I had an instrument built on commission to a historic design that I could take advantage of the doubled first. Well worth the effort- one should at least try it; one can always remove a string. -Dan Yup-- The double first course is sorta the sleeper in historical lute performance. Along with the double course theorbos. The top course doubled sound terrific at a slightly lower pitch, seamless transition among the top three courses. dt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
On lutes, would it only have been nine course lutes that had this double first course (as the one Martin Shepherd recorded with recently, and Dowland is said to have played), or were 10c, or even some 11c lutes strung that way (even if there are no extant ones, can we be sure, they just did not survive, or is there some reference to them as dated or old fashioned)? If I remember correctly, Martin was recently playing 10c Jacques Gautier music with his 9c, so I suppose the ninth course is tuned to C-10, and has to be stopped down to obtain the D-9? Can most transitional 10c lute music be played on such a lute, a little like playing 8c lute music on a 7c lute, with the 7c tuned to D (as I usually do)? Would this work well with most transitional music (Cuthbert Hely, for example who seems to have been a contemporary of Jacques), or might there be a sort of break off point, where the double top or the 9c would be more incongruous? Anthony Le 19 déc. 08 à 23:06, Daniel Winheld a écrit : Slightly lower pitch, and slightly lower tension; it's two strings now and the whole course should feel (and sound) balanced vis-a-vis the other courses. It need not have literally the same tension as the second course; but the feel of balance should be a steady increase from bass to treble at a certain point- 4th or 3rd course, usually- not a sudden jump in tension. I have been bothered by the double-first issue for many years, and it was not until I had an instrument built on commission to a historic design that I could take advantage of the doubled first. Well worth the effort- one should at least try it; one can always remove a string. -Dan Yup-- The double first course is sorta the sleeper in historical lute performance. Along with the double course theorbos. The top course doubled sound terrific at a slightly lower pitch, seamless transition among the top three courses. dt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
Dear Anthony and All, The double top course is found on everything from 6c lutes to Mace's 12c lute, and everything inbetween. Three of our most popular 7c lutes from the Venere workshop, the 44cm C39, the 58.7cm lute in Bologna, and the 66.8cm C36, have their original bridges and pegboxes and a double top course. The double top course seems to have been relatively rare on 6c lutes, and by the late 17th C the author of the Burwell tutor explains the single 2nd on the 11c course by claiming that they could hardly ever find two strings to agree - a problem which would have been even more acute for a first course. But I think it is fairly certain that the single 2nd originated as a conversion feature (from 10c to 11c), and iconographic evidence suggests that a double 2nd was also quite common on 11c lutes. On 9 vs 10 courses - it's surprising how much music there seems to be for 9c, and often in MS sources you can see where the piece has been written for 9c, then adapted for 10. Just for the record, the pieces by John Sturt and Jacques Gaultier used only 9 courses, no need to stop any basses to get extra notes, though the source (ML) is one which is fairly consistently notated for 10. For these pieces, the 8th is Eb and the 9th Bb (nominal G tuning) - a very practical tuning which makes the keys of Eb and Bb quite accessible. Another nice 9c tuning is 8th to Eb and 9th to C, which is good for pieces in C minor. Of course you can't play all 10c music on a 9c lute, but there's lots of possibilities. Vallet indicates for each piece how many courses it needs, anything from 7 to 10. Perhaps the main disadvantage of the 9c lute is that you need to do more retuning of two or more of the basses for different keys, whereas on the 10c your main dilemma is whether to have the 8th at E or Eb. Gut basses are easier to retune than wound ones, by the way... Best wishes, Martin Anthony Hind wrote: On lutes, would it only have been nine course lutes that had this double first course (as the one Martin Shepherd recorded with recently, and Dowland is said to have played), or were 10c, or even some 11c lutes strung that way (even if there are no extant ones, can we be sure, they just did not survive, or is there some reference to them as dated or old fashioned)? If I remember correctly, Martin was recently playing 10c Jacques Gautier music with his 9c, so I suppose the ninth course is tuned to C-10, and has to be stopped down to obtain the D-9? Can most transitional 10c lute music be played on such a lute, a little like playing 8c lute music on a 7c lute, with the 7c tuned to D (as I usually do)? Would this work well with most transitional music (Cuthbert Hely, for example who seems to have been a contemporary of Jacques), or might there be a sort of break off point, where the double top or the 9c would be more incongruous? Anthony Le 19 déc. 08 à 23:06, Daniel Winheld a écrit : Slightly lower pitch, and slightly lower tension; it's two strings now and the whole course should feel (and sound) balanced vis-a-vis the other courses. It need not have literally the same tension as the second course; but the feel of balance should be a steady increase from bass to treble at a certain point- 4th or 3rd course, usually- not a sudden jump in tension. I have been bothered by the double-first issue for many years, and it was not until I had an instrument built on commission to a historic design that I could take advantage of the doubled first. Well worth the effort- one should at least try it; one can always remove a string. -Dan Yup-- The double first course is sorta the sleeper in historical lute performance. Along with the double course theorbos. The top course doubled sound terrific at a slightly lower pitch, seamless transition among the top three courses. dt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:24 AM, Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk wrote: Dear Anthony and All, The double top course is found on everything from 6c lutes to Mace's 12c lute, and everything inbetween. .. iconographic evidence suggests that a double 2nd was also quite common on 11c lutes. I had no idea. Can you point us to some? And are there 11-course instruments left with a double second, or even double first course? Or converted-to-13-course lutes that show that there has been originally a double second? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
I think relativeley rare is about right, maybe medium rare. There are enough examples that we know that there was a presence, and not truly rare, but not enough examples to think in terms of either or. Some very interseting iconography for earlier instruments as well. It is a terrific sound, and in some sense is easier, because you can strike the courses pretty close to the same way. I also think that from a technique point of view, that the double top course prevents some of the more moderm styles od striking the string from creeping in. dt At 03:24 PM 12/19/2008, you wrote: Dear Anthony and All, The double top course is found on everything from 6c lutes to Mace's 12c lute, and everything inbetween. Three of our most popular 7c lutes from the Venere workshop, the 44cm C39, the 58.7cm lute in Bologna, and the 66.8cm C36, have their original bridges and pegboxes and a double top course. The double top course seems to have been relatively rare on 6c lutes, and by the late 17th C the author of the Burwell tutor explains the single 2nd on the 11c course by claiming that they could hardly ever find two strings to agree - a problem which would have been even more acute for a first course. But I think it is fairly certain that the single 2nd originated as a conversion feature (from 10c to 11c), and iconographic evidence suggests that a double 2nd was also quite common on 11c lutes. On 9 vs 10 courses - it's surprising how much music there seems to be for 9c, and often in MS sources you can see where the piece has been written for 9c, then adapted for 10. Just for the record, the pieces by John Sturt and Jacques Gaultier used only 9 courses, no need to stop any basses to get extra notes, though the source (ML) is one which is fairly consistently notated for 10. For these pieces, the 8th is Eb and the 9th Bb (nominal G tuning) - a very practical tuning which makes the keys of Eb and Bb quite accessible. Another nice 9c tuning is 8th to Eb and 9th to C, which is good for pieces in C minor. Of course you can't play all 10c music on a 9c lute, but there's lots of possibilities. Vallet indicates for each piece how many courses it needs, anything from 7 to 10. Perhaps the main disadvantage of the 9c lute is that you need to do more retuning of two or more of the basses for different keys, whereas on the 10c your main dilemma is whether to have the 8th at E or Eb. Gut basses are easier to retune than wound ones, by the way... Best wishes, Martin Anthony Hind wrote: On lutes, would it only have been nine course lutes that had this double first course (as the one Martin Shepherd recorded with recently, and Dowland is said to have played), or were 10c, or even some 11c lutes strung that way (even if there are no extant ones, can we be sure, they just did not survive, or is there some reference to them as dated or old fashioned)? If I remember correctly, Martin was recently playing 10c Jacques Gautier music with his 9c, so I suppose the ninth course is tuned to C-10, and has to be stopped down to obtain the D-9? Can most transitional 10c lute music be played on such a lute, a little like playing 8c lute music on a 7c lute, with the 7c tuned to D (as I usually do)? Would this work well with most transitional music (Cuthbert Hely, for example who seems to have been a contemporary of Jacques), or might there be a sort of break off point, where the double top or the 9c would be more incongruous? Anthony Le 19 déc. 08 à 23:06, Daniel Winheld a écrit : Slightly lower pitch, and slightly lower tension; it's two strings now and the whole course should feel (and sound) balanced vis-a-vis the other courses. It need not have literally the same tension as the second course; but the feel of balance should be a steady increase from bass to treble at a certain point- 4th or 3rd course, usually- not a sudden jump in tension. I have been bothered by the double-first issue for many years, and it was not until I had an instrument built on commission to a historic design that I could take advantage of the doubled first. Well worth the effort- one should at least try it; one can always remove a string. -Dan Yup-- The double first course is sorta the sleeper in historical lute performance. Along with the double course theorbos. The top course doubled sound terrific at a slightly lower pitch, seamless transition among the top three courses. dt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Peg count on Choc lute
Everything BECOMES easier once you master that doubled first- (speaking only of my own experience, of course). Everything I knew about good tone production had to be enhanced ten fold in order to strike that first course cleanly, solidly, gently-but-firmly (or the other way around?) because I had got very used to hitting a single string with one kind or touch, or feel, and immediately altering the touch however slightly when moving to the second course. There's a reason why that 1st course is named chanterelle- there it is, right on top, and when you suddenly have TWO prima donnas having to sing in perfect unison the whole game tightens up. Very well worth it, however- much less splatting of carelessly struck strings anywhere on the lute, cleaner general sound. I find that (so far) I can switch between the doubled 1st on one instrument and singles pretty easily now. --Dan It is a terrific sound, and in some sense is easier, because you can strike the courses pretty close to the same way. I also think that from a technique point of view, that the double top course prevents some of the more moderm styles od striking the string from creeping in. dt At 03:24 PM 12/19/2008, you wrote: Dear Anthony and All, The double top course is found on everything from 6c lutes to Mace's 12c lute, and everything inbetween. Three of our most popular 7c lutes from the Venere workshop, the 44cm C39, the 58.7cm lute in Bologna, and the 66.8cm C36, have their original bridges and pegboxes and a double top course. The double top course seems to have been relatively rare on 6c lutes, and by the late 17th C the author of the Burwell tutor explains the single 2nd on the 11c course by claiming that they could hardly ever find two strings to agree - a problem which would have been even more acute for a first course. But I think it is fairly certain that the single 2nd originated as a conversion feature (from 10c to 11c), and iconographic evidence suggests that a double 2nd was also quite common on 11c lutes. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
