[BAROQUE-LUTE] 2 Baroque Lute recordings
Dear Lutenists In the last month I have received two excellent Baroque lute CDs, that very nicely complement each other. Both contain music by Kellner, but the pieces do not overlap, and while Ed Martin's CD also contains music by Conradi, in Miguel Serdoura's CD there is music by well known French lutenists, E. Gautier and J. Gallot, but also Les Baricades Mysterieueses by Francois Couperin. This can be played on 13c lute with little or no alteration. There are also two interesting pieces by the Saint-Luc, along side two better known pieces by Weiss. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GugCgg1pL._SS400_.jpg Extracts can be heard at http://tinyurl.com/8zlqup I do not want to compare these records, except to say that Ed Martin is playing on a gut strung Frei style lute, which Dan Larson baroqued from 7c to 11c, just as happened in the Baroque period. The recording has been made by sound engineer, Jakob Larson (a member of the Larson family?); and it succeeds in bringing out the subtle warm clarity of Ed's gut-string playing. I rather suppose J L has a close knowledge of lutes which has enabled him to make such an excellent recording: at last a lute recording that sounds like a lute, not like an amplified mandolin. Miguel Serdoura is playing with nylgut and Aquila nylgut wirewounds; however, his technique of damping the basses described on p.122 to 123 of his method, are such that I find no problem at all with basses drowning the other voices (as so often seems to happen with wirewounds). The sound engineer, Jiri Heger, works frequently with small Baroque ensembles, such as those of William Christie, http://www.musica-numeris.com/LEquipe/Lesing%C3%A9nieursduson/ Collaborateursr%C3%A9guliers/JiriHeger/tabid/175/language/en-US/ Default.aspx and again, he seems to have had the necessary understanding of lute sound, not to blur, in anyway, the pearl-like flowing clarity of Miguel's playing. I understand that little or no reverb was added, and only a slight frequency tweaking was necessary to bring out the speed of the initial attack, which was present on earphones, but slightly less so on lofi speaker based systems. I highly recommend both CDs, but do not want to try to compare the style of these two lutenists. I would prefer to add some anecdotes to show how both records pleasantly surprised the ears of some non- specialists. Ed Martin's CD: Just as I received Ed Martin's CD, I had to leave Paris for a small village 70 miles from Paris. While I was playing Ed's record to my daughter, three of her local friends happened to drop in. All three became very intent, wanting to know exactly what this beautiful music could be: the composer, the instrument, etc. I found out later that the young lady was an advanced viola student, while another was a self taught rock and folk guitarist, but they did not have any deep knowledge of lute music. When it was mentioned that I had an 11c lute, similar to the one they were hearing, they immediately wanted to see it, expressing amazement at its lightness and beauty, but also admiration that this was the type of instrument that could play such beautiful music. I think the fact that Ed's playing moved this small group of non specialists, tells us more about his record than would any words from a lute amateur, such as myself. Miguel's CD: Just before I left Paris, I received the following message from a great friend and colleague in linguistics, who is also a melomane and audiophile, very partial to his Couperin, and to French Baroque lute music. I have asked his permission to convey his message to you. Paris, 22 decembre 2008 Dear Anthony, Many thanks for the lovely record by Miguel Serdoura. As I told you, I knew all the pieces, included here, fairly well -with the exception of the two lovely pieces by Jacques de Saint-Luc- but of course Couperin's 'les baricades mysterieueses', the sixth piece of his sixieme ordre, is probably one of the best known harpsichord works of 18th century French music; however, I had never actually heard it played on the lute and I was particularly impressed by Serdoura's interpretation. As with all the other pieces in the record, he plays it rather more slowly than all previous interpretations known to me, and maybe because of that, with extreme 'retenue' and elegance. The same is true of his rendering of Ennemond Gaultier's very well-known 'la cascade', which I also very much like. This is much in the spirit of Hopkinson Smith's interpretation, I find; although again Serdoura plays more slowly (by almost three minutes actually, I just checked) and if possible, with even more subtle 'retenue' than 'the baricades mysterieueses'. The dominant impression of the record as a whole is for me one of nostalgic elegance, well suited to my present mood and so pleasantly at odds with the present scene, musical or otherwise! Very best, Jean-Yves Jean-Yves personally told me how much he had enjoyed this record,
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 2 Baroque Lute recordings
- Original Message - From: Anthony Hind anthony.h...@noos.fr To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] 2 Baroque Lute recordings | Dear Lutenists | In the last month I have received two excellent Baroque lute | CDs, that very nicely complement each other. Both contain music by | Kellner, but the pieces do not overlap, and while Ed Martin's CD also | contains music by Conradi, in Miguel Serdoura's CD there is music by | well known French lutenists, E. Gautier and J. Gallot, but also Les | Baricades Mysterieueses by Francois Couperin. This can be played on | 13c lute with little or no alteration. There are also two interesting | pieces by the Saint-Luc, along side two better known pieces by Weiss. | http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GugCgg1pL._SS400_.jpg | Extracts can be heard at | http://tinyurl.com/8zlqup | big snip I've always wondered, to what does the title Les Baricades Mysterieueses refer? --ajn To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 2 Baroque Lute recordings
| Dear Lutenists | In the last month I have received two excellent Baroque lute | CDs, that very nicely complement each other. Both contain music by | Kellner, but the pieces do not overlap, and while Ed Martin's CD also | contains music by Conradi, in Miguel Serdoura's CD there is music by | well known French lutenists, E. Gautier and J. Gallot, but also Les | Baricades Mysterieueses by Francois Couperin. This can be played on | 13c lute with little or no alteration. There are also two interesting | pieces by the Saint-Luc, along side two better known pieces by Weiss. | http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GugCgg1pL._SS400_.jpg | Extracts can be heard at | http://tinyurl.com/8zlqup | big snip I've always wondered, to what does the title Les Baricades Mysterieueses refer? --ajn Mysterious impediments, NOT roadblocks. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Mysterious whatnots
On Dec 28, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Arthur Ness wrote: I've always wondered, You and everyone else... to what does the title Les Baricades Mysterieueses refer? One theory is that it refers to the the repeated suspensions in the piece. Others are more fanciful. It's not the only baffling Couperin title. Baron, writing in 1727, complained that French composers naming of pieces smacked of charlatanry and affectation, as though the composer wanted to entertain with the name more than the music. You might look at: http://www.as.miami.edu/personal/sevnine/barricades.htm -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Mysterious whatnots
Thank you very much for posting that information and link, Howard. I see one of my former students, RXR, is quoted at the end of the Music section. That's typical of his music, to incorporate early music with contemporary ethnic musics such as that of the mariachi and the Mexican lullabye. I'll have to ask him what the Couperin title means to him. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Mozart's Serenade No. 11 in E flat, K. 375, performed by the Ensemble á Vent Français Bordeaux Aquitaine, Michel Arrignon, conductor. To download, click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ My Web Page: Scores http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ Other Matters: http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/musexx/ === - Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 12:23 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Mysterious whatnots | | On Dec 28, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Arthur Ness wrote: | | I've always wondered, | | You and everyone else... | | to what does the title Les Baricades | Mysterieueses refer? | | | One theory is that it refers to the the repeated suspensions in the | piece. Others are more fanciful. It's not the only baffling | Couperin title. Baron, writing in 1727, complained that French | composers’ naming of pieces “smacked of charlatanry and affectation, | as though the composer wanted to entertain with the name more than | the music.” | | You might look at: | | http://www.as.miami.edu/personal/sevnine/barricades.htm | -- | | To get on or off this list see list information at | http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html |
[LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier
Damian Sonner le tocsin, meant roughly to ring a peal of warning bells , but could also mean the bell used for such a warning. This would have come from earlier touquesain from Provencal tocaseneh. It seems that tocar (or toquer), distantly related to touch, comes from Latin toccāre make a sound like toc. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-touch.html and senh could be derived from Latin signum a sign - a signal, giving ancient French seing, later sein, and which took on the meaning of bell. My source is the historic dictionary of the French language, le Robert, but etymology of a single expression, even backed-up by such a dictionary is rarely safe. Around 1570 and for a certain period, the expression apparently took on a metaphoric meaning (Bossuet) to allert public oppinion. Best wishes Anthony Le 28 déc. 08 à 02:51, damian dlugolecki a écrit : You are quite right David. I just looked up 'tocsin' in my OED where the earliest usage in English is in 1598. I just assumed it was an earlier spelling of 'toxin' which led me to my incorrect interpretation. Never encountered the word 'tocsin' with that meaning. The OED reads, an alarm signal, sounded by ringing a bell or bells; used orig. and esp. in reference to France. Thanks for clearing that up. Damian Subject: [LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier I might have missed something here, getting into the discussion late (I rejoined today---hellew everyone), but doesn't the English word tocsin refer to the pealing of a bell? I always thought tocsin came from an old form of French. Could some form of the word have existed in French in the 17th century with a similar meaning? Used perhaps in similar sense to Vallet's piece depicting bells in a village church. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:48 PM, damian dlugolecki wrote: At the moment this is only a guess, but I believe the 'tocsin' of Mouton and that of D. Gautier have something to do with disease. The word 'toxin' only come into the English language during the 19th century. My OED defines it originally as A specific poison...produced by a microbe which causes a particular disease.' By this perhaps we can infer that this was closer to the original French meaning than to our current understanding of the word 'toxin' as some kinde of poison. There were many diseases like typhus, smallpox, cholera etc. that wiped out large numbers of people. I need to find a French dictionary like my OED. My Larousse does not have historical meanings or etymologies. In any case, the pieces by Gautier and Mouton are very similar, and it seems to me that the Mouton piece is transposition to f#m of D. Gautier's piece in e minor. The repeated low 'B' has a funerary feeling to me anyway and it appears throughout Mouton's piece as a low C#. But even though it is possible these 'tocsins' were about disease, they are gigues and should be played at faster tempos. Played in the salons of Paris during recurrences of 'la Peste' they were perhaps demonstrations of musical 'black humor.' -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier
damian dlugolecki wrote: G. Crona was kind enough to send a .jpg of the piece. At the moment this is only a guess, but I believe the 'tocsin' of Mouton and that of D. Gautier have something to do with disease. The word 'toxin' only come into the English language during the 19th century. My OED defines it originally as A specific poison...produced by a microbe which causes a particular disease.' By this perhaps we can infer that this was closer to the original French meaning than to our current understanding of the word 'toxin' as some kinde of poison. There were many diseases like typhus, smallpox, cholera etc. that wiped out large numbers of people. I need to find a French dictionary like my OED. My Larousse does not have historical meanings or etymologies. In any case, the pieces by Gautier and Mouton are very similar, and it seems to me that the Mouton piece is transposition to f#m of D. Gautier's piece in e minor. The repeated low 'B' has a funerary feeling to me anyway and it appears throughout Mouton's piece as a low C#. But even though it is possible these 'tocsins' were about disease, they are gigues and should be played at faster tempos. Played in the salons of Paris during recurrences of 'la Peste' they were perhaps demonstrations of musical 'black humor.' Damian The Livre de Tablature p.86-87 Goëss Théorbe 170-171 Are there general rules of performance for a French gigue in even metre like this one? I heard recordings of gigues by Froberger for the harpsichord (can't remember the performer) which were played extremely inegale, as though inegality was the major trait of gigues. Does the title (euqivalent to tocsin in modern French and English, I assume) indicate fast tempo? -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tocsin is an alarm sounded by a bell f rom the Old French touquesain charles
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What to build.
What an enjoyable thread, I will read the rest of it tomorrow to avoid being up until midnight Hawaiian time zone. But I must insert a comment on historical construction. I think I'll make a Greek lyre tomorrow, in my spare time. The tetrachord (and the name of the instrument escapes me) was truely that - a tonic and a perfect fourth (or fifth, depending on whether you start at the top or the bottom), and a couple of undefined intervals in between (actually there are definitions, but they are regional and ethnic). Mankind did evolve his skills, and depending on whether you are biblical or Darwinian it took either many millenia or a few. Music is one of them. Our western music is relatively unique in its evolution, our scales are basically modifications of the Greek, and our tuning temperaments are to a great extent caused by the desire for multi-voices in the Church. The oriental scales are quite different (and I use orient in the old sense that it include everything east of Eden). We can make a good guess that the virtuosos of olden days might have sounded a bit amateurish today, the materials and construction have improved - but that is not to knock them, simplicity has a beauty of its own. The lute is a development on the Arabic oud, as brought into Europe by either travelers or Moorish invaders (and probably both). The oud, and the early lute, was played with a pick (ok, plectrum is the proper term) and therefore a melody instrument as the tuning isn't amenable to a broad strum - and certainly not in the Arabic scale. So far as I'm concerned the music should advance, while also keeping the traditions of sound alive (as best we can judge them). I have a collection of medieval dance tunes I play on harp and psaltery, I know I'm not in their tuning as I tune to equal temperament. We should certainly explore the sounds of old, as best we can approximate them - but we should not worship at the temple of historic sound. When I first heard the Swingle Singers doing Bach's Brandenburgs in scat my reaction was that Bach would have loved it. He had a touch of the jazz musician in him in his use of variations around a fixed theme. As one whose primary instrument is voice I have tried to transcribe early notation of the monastic chants, but am also aware that the Gregorian chants were notated nearly a thousand years after the Pope's death. It is all interpretation with a bit of by guess and by golly. Notation was a late comer into the passing on of music (although there actually is some Greek notation from around 500 BC, but even that is as interpreted). Best, Jon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier
Hi all, My old dictionary gives this meaning... Tocsin: (tok-sin) [M.F. toquesing (O.F. toquer, to TOUCH, sing, SIGNAL)], n. An alarm-bell; the ringing of an alarm-bell, an alarm-signal. Church-bells have been used as an alarm in times past. Is this another possibility? Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: David Rastall [mailto:dlu...@verizon.net] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:15 AM To: damian dlugolecki Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier I might have missed something here, getting into the discussion late (I rejoined today---hellew everyone), but doesn't the English word tocsin refer to the pealing of a bell? I always thought tocsin came from an old form of French. Could some form of the word have existed in French in the 17th century with a similar meaning? Used perhaps in similar sense to Vallet's piece depicting bells in a village church. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier
Tocxin is tocsin in both French and English, an alarm bell which is musically depicted by the repeated bass notes. My former question was concerned with tempo. If it is agreed that alarm bells would usually be chimed as loud and fast as possible in case of emergency, was the gigue which bears that name supposed to be played that way, too? It's a sequel, so to say, of a short discussion that we had in December 2003 (Re: binary and ternary GIGUES). Mathias Anthony Hind anthony.h...@noos.fr schrieb: Damian Sonner le tocsin, meant roughly to ring a peal of warning bells , but could also mean the bell used for such a warning. This would have come from earlier touquesain from Provencal tocaseneh. It seems that tocar (or toquer), distantly related to touch, comes from Latin toccre make a sound like toc. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-touch.html and senh could be derived from Latin signum a sign - a signal, giving ancient French seing, later sein, and which took on the meaning of bell. My source is the historic dictionary of the French language, le Robert, but etymology of a single expression, even backed-up by such a dictionary is rarely safe. Around 1570 and for a certain period, the expression apparently took on a metaphoric meaning (Bossuet) to allert public oppinion. Best wishes Anthony Le 28 déc. 08 à 02:51, damian dlugolecki a écrit : You are quite right David. I just looked up 'tocsin' in my OED where the earliest usage in English is in 1598. I just assumed it was an earlier spelling of 'toxin' which led me to my incorrect interpretation. Never encountered the word 'tocsin' with that meaning. The OED reads, an alarm signal, sounded by ringing a bell or bells; used orig. and esp. in reference to France. Thanks for clearing that up. Damian Subject: [LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier I might have missed something here, getting into the discussion late (I rejoined today---hellew everyone), but doesn't the English word tocsin refer to the pealing of a bell? I always thought tocsin came from an old form of French. Could some form of the word have existed in French in the 17th century with a similar meaning? Used perhaps in similar sense to Vallet's piece depicting bells in a village church. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:48 PM, damian dlugolecki wrote: At the moment this is only a guess, but I believe the 'tocsin' of Mouton and that of D. Gautier have something to do with disease. The word 'toxin' only come into the English language during the 19th century. My OED defines it originally as A specific poison...produced by a microbe which causes a particular disease.' By this perhaps we can infer that this was closer to the original French meaning than to our current understanding of the word 'toxin' as some kinde of poison. There were many diseases like typhus, smallpox, cholera etc. that wiped out large numbers of people. I need to find a French dictionary like my OED. My Larousse does not have historical meanings or etymologies. In any case, the pieces by Gautier and Mouton are very similar, and it seems to me that the Mouton piece is transposition to f#m of D. Gautier's piece in e minor. The repeated low 'B' has a funerary feeling to me anyway and it appears throughout Mouton's piece as a low C#. But even though it is possible these 'tocsins' were about disease, they are gigues and should be played at faster tempos. Played in the salons of Paris during recurrences of 'la Peste' they were perhaps demonstrations of musical 'black humor.' To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier
I would imagine it could be binary. Anthony Le 28 déc. 08 à 13:56, Mathias Rösel a écrit : Tocxin is tocsin in both French and English, an alarm bell which is musically depicted by the repeated bass notes. My former question was concerned with tempo. If it is agreed that alarm bells would usually be chimed as loud and fast as possible in case of emergency, was the gigue which bears that name supposed to be played that way, too? It's a sequel, so to say, of a short discussion that we had in December 2003 (Re: binary and ternary GIGUES). Mathias Anthony Hind anthony.h...@noos.fr schrieb: Damian Sonner le tocsin, meant roughly to ring a peal of warning bells , but could also mean the bell used for such a warning. This would have come from earlier touquesain from Provencal tocaseneh. It seems that tocar (or toquer), distantly related to touch, comes from Latin toccre make a sound like toc. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-touch.html and senh could be derived from Latin signum a sign - a signal, giving ancient French seing, later sein, and which took on the meaning of bell. My source is the historic dictionary of the French language, le Robert, but etymology of a single expression, even backed-up by such a dictionary is rarely safe. Around 1570 and for a certain period, the expression apparently took on a metaphoric meaning (Bossuet) to allert public oppinion. Best wishes Anthony Le 28 déc. 08 à 02:51, damian dlugolecki a écrit : You are quite right David. I just looked up 'tocsin' in my OED where the earliest usage in English is in 1598. I just assumed it was an earlier spelling of 'toxin' which led me to my incorrect interpretation. Never encountered the word 'tocsin' with that meaning. The OED reads, an alarm signal, sounded by ringing a bell or bells; used orig. and esp. in reference to France. Thanks for clearing that up. Damian Subject: [LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier I might have missed something here, getting into the discussion late (I rejoined today---hellew everyone), but doesn't the English word tocsin refer to the pealing of a bell? I always thought tocsin came from an old form of French. Could some form of the word have existed in French in the 17th century with a similar meaning? Used perhaps in similar sense to Vallet's piece depicting bells in a village church. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:48 PM, damian dlugolecki wrote: At the moment this is only a guess, but I believe the 'tocsin' of Mouton and that of D. Gautier have something to do with disease. The word 'toxin' only come into the English language during the 19th century. My OED defines it originally as A specific poison...produced by a microbe which causes a particular disease.' By this perhaps we can infer that this was closer to the original French meaning than to our current understanding of the word 'toxin' as some kinde of poison. There were many diseases like typhus, smallpox, cholera etc. that wiped out large numbers of people. I need to find a French dictionary like my OED. My Larousse does not have historical meanings or etymologies. In any case, the pieces by Gautier and Mouton are very similar, and it seems to me that the Mouton piece is transposition to f#m of D. Gautier's piece in e minor. The repeated low 'B' has a funerary feeling to me anyway and it appears throughout Mouton's piece as a low C#. But even though it is possible these 'tocsins' were about disease, they are gigues and should be played at faster tempos. Played in the salons of Paris during recurrences of 'la Peste' they were perhaps demonstrations of musical 'black humor.' To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier
I would imagine it could be binary. Both Tocxin by Denis Gaultier and Toxin by Charles Mouton are gigues in 4/4 metre. I'd go so far as to say that there's a relationship discernible between the pieces of master and student in that both gigues have a very similar opening motif and both share the same rhythmic pattern in each measure of their respective second halves, i. e. with the bass note off-beat on 2nd half of 1st beat. That repeated bass note even being a 4 in both pieces (notwithstanding that it means B with Gaultier, C sharp with Mouton). With what I heard with Froberger gigues transferred to these 4/4 gigues, you would play them extremely inegale, IOW amounts of crotchets as sharpened ternary units. Gaultier seems to indicate that way of playing by stating rhythm more precisely in each one but last measure of both halves of his gigue. Still, would you perform Tocsin as loud and fast as possible, i. e. raising connotations of alarm? Mouton seems to indicate something of that kind by using means of chromatic escalation at the conclusions of the 1st half. Mathias Tocxin is tocsin in both French and English, an alarm bell which is musically depicted by the repeated bass notes. My former question was concerned with tempo. If it is agreed that alarm bells would usually be chimed as loud and fast as possible in case of emergency, was the gigue which bears that name supposed to be played that way, too? It's a sequel, so to say, of a short discussion that we had in December 2003 (Re: binary and ternary GIGUES). Mathias Anthony Hind anthony.h...@noos.fr schrieb: Damian Sonner le tocsin, meant roughly to ring a peal of warning bells , but could also mean the bell used for such a warning. This would have come from earlier touquesain from Provencal tocaseneh. It seems that tocar (or toquer), distantly related to touch, comes from Latin toccre make a sound like toc. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-touch.html and senh could be derived from Latin signum a sign - a signal, giving ancient French seing, later sein, and which took on the meaning of bell. My source is the historic dictionary of the French language, le Robert, but etymology of a single expression, even backed-up by such a dictionary is rarely safe. Around 1570 and for a certain period, the expression apparently took on a metaphoric meaning (Bossuet) to allert public oppinion. Best wishes Anthony Le 28 déc. 08 à 02:51, damian dlugolecki a écrit : You are quite right David. I just looked up 'tocsin' in my OED where the earliest usage in English is in 1598. I just assumed it was an earlier spelling of 'toxin' which led me to my incorrect interpretation. Never encountered the word 'tocsin' with that meaning. The OED reads, an alarm signal, sounded by ringing a bell or bells; used orig. and esp. in reference to France. Thanks for clearing that up. Damian Subject: [LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier I might have missed something here, getting into the discussion late (I rejoined today---hellew everyone), but doesn't the English word tocsin refer to the pealing of a bell? I always thought tocsin came from an old form of French. Could some form of the word have existed in French in the 17th century with a similar meaning? Used perhaps in similar sense to Vallet's piece depicting bells in a village church. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:48 PM, damian dlugolecki wrote: At the moment this is only a guess, but I believe the 'tocsin' of Mouton and that of D. Gautier have something to do with disease. The word 'toxin' only come into the English language during the 19th century. My OED defines it originally as A specific poison...produced by a microbe which causes a particular disease.' By this perhaps we can infer that this was closer to the original French meaning than to our current understanding of the word 'toxin' as some kinde of poison. There were many diseases like typhus, smallpox, cholera etc. that wiped out large numbers of people. I need to find a French dictionary like my OED. My Larousse does not have historical meanings or etymologies. In any case, the pieces by Gautier and Mouton are very similar, and it seems to me that the Mouton piece is transposition to f#m of D. Gautier's piece in e minor. The repeated low 'B' has a funerary feeling to me anyway and it appears throughout Mouton's piece as a low C#. But even though it is possible these 'tocsins' were about disease, they are gigues and should be played at faster tempos. Played in the salons of Paris during recurrences of 'la Peste' they were perhaps demonstrations of musical 'black humor.' To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What to build.
Jon, I've made two Greek lyres. The second one was better than the first. You can get turtle shells here: http:// www.skullsunlimited.com/. I recommend a snapping turtle shell; they're big enough to give you a large tympanum. The first lyre had rough branches for the arms; I ended up laminating 1/8 inch cherry over a form to make the arms on the second one, and that looked better. On the crosspiece, I used strips of leather over the wood to provide friction to tighten the strings, and little pieces of wood under the leathers to give you something to grasp to tighten the strings. If you look at details of lyres on Greek vases, they have something like that. And use goat hide for the tympanum; it's thinner and more supple than cow hide. Tandy Leather sells goat rawhide. I've been away from listservs for a while. When did you move to Hawaii? Tim On Dec 28, 2008, at 5:16 AM, Jon Murphy wrote: What an enjoyable thread, I will read the rest of it tomorrow to avoid being up until midnight Hawaiian time zone. But I must insert a comment on historical construction. I think I'll make a Greek lyre tomorrow, in my spare time. The tetrachord (and the name of the instrument escapes me) was truely that - a tonic and a perfect fourth (or fifth, depending on whether you start at the top or the bottom), and a couple of undefined intervals in between (actually there are definitions, but they are regional and ethnic). Mankind did evolve his skills, and depending on whether you are biblical or Darwinian it took either many millenia or a few. Music is one of them. Our western music is relatively unique in its evolution, our scales are basically modifications of the Greek, and our tuning temperaments are to a great extent caused by the desire for multi-voices in the Church. The oriental scales are quite different (and I use orient in the old sense that it include everything east of Eden). We can make a good guess that the virtuosos of olden days might have sounded a bit amateurish today, the materials and construction have improved - but that is not to knock them, simplicity has a beauty of its own. The lute is a development on the Arabic oud, as brought into Europe by either travelers or Moorish invaders (and probably both). The oud, and the early lute, was played with a pick (ok, plectrum is the proper term) and therefore a melody instrument as the tuning isn't amenable to a broad strum - and certainly not in the Arabic scale. So far as I'm concerned the music should advance, while also keeping the traditions of sound alive (as best we can judge them). I have a collection of medieval dance tunes I play on harp and psaltery, I know I'm not in their tuning as I tune to equal temperament. We should certainly explore the sounds of old, as best we can approximate them - but we should not worship at the temple of historic sound. When I first heard the Swingle Singers doing Bach's Brandenburgs in scat my reaction was that Bach would have loved it. He had a touch of the jazz musician in him in his use of variations around a fixed theme. As one whose primary instrument is voice I have tried to transcribe early notation of the monastic chants, but am also aware that the Gregorian chants were notated nearly a thousand years after the Pope's death. It is all interpretation with a bit of by guess and by golly. Notation was a late comer into the passing on of music (although there actually is some Greek notation from around 500 BC, but even that is as interpreted). Best, Jon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Good 2009
To all crisis ridden vocal, flute and string players in the world, May you all (except Igor) master the coming year like he is doing in this video. With creativity, talent and not least, humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU Pling we Ron Andrico schrieb: To All: In the spirit of the holidays, and because we were snowbound for a few days last week, we have added a few videos to our youtube page. The videos were an experiment with no enhancements, and some are from a live concert in honor of St. Lucy's Day, and the rest from our snowy home. Happy holidays to all. http://www.youtube.com/user/lutesongs Ron Andrico Donna Stewart www.mignarda.com __ Its the same Hotmail(R). If by same you mean up to 70% faster. [1]Get your account now. -- References 1. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Good 2009
Pling plong plung is my answer to the coming year. Hope we´ll make music like this year in hamburg, burg sternberg or kotzbus! wo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Orphenica [mailto:wer...@orphenica.de] Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2008 18:50 An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Good 2009 To all crisis ridden vocal, flute and string players in the world, May you all (except Igor) master the coming year like he is doing in this video. With creativity, talent and not least, humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU Pling we Ron Andrico schrieb: To All: In the spirit of the holidays, and because we were snowbound for a few days last week, we have added a few videos to our youtube page. The videos were an experiment with no enhancements, and some are from a live concert in honor of St. Lucy's Day, and the rest from our snowy home. Happy holidays to all. http://www.youtube.com/user/lutesongs Ron Andrico Donna Stewart www.mignarda.com __ Its the same Hotmail(R). If by same you mean up to 70% faster. [1]Get your account now. -- References 1. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_br oad1_122008 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Good 2009
Orphenica wrote: To all crisis ridden vocal, flute and string players in the world, May you all (except Igor) master the coming year like he is doing in this video. With creativity, talent and not least, humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU Pling we Ron Andrico schrieb: To All: In the spirit of the holidays, and because we were snowbound for a few days last week, we have added a few videos to our youtube page. The videos were an experiment with no enhancements, and some are from a live concert in honor of St. Lucy's Day, and the rest from our snowy home. Happy holidays to all. http://www.youtube.com/user/lutesongs Ron Andrico Donna Stewart www.mignarda.com __ Its the same Hotmail(R). If by same you mean up to 70% faster. [1]Get your account now. -- References 1. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html it might have been better with gut stringing!
[LUTE] Re: Good 2009
Single or double first course? All the best for 2009 and the rest! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Good 2009
Charles Browne schrieb: it might have been better with gut stringing! You are right! When I first met Toyohiko Satoh, it seemed to me that he was obesessed by the idea that most human problems, e.g. sloth, wrath, envy, bad mouth taste and lack of guitarists' stamina in adopting the lute originate in NOT using gut strings. When I held my first instrument with gut strings in my hands, I instantaneously knew how he was perfectly right ;-) Nonetheless all the best for the years to come (due to the financial crisis and the prices of gut already known as the Nylon years) we Charles Browne schrieb: it might have been better with gut stringing! Orphenica wrote: To all crisis ridden vocal, flute and string players in the world, May you all (except Igor) master the coming year like he is doing in this video. With creativity, talent and not least, humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU Pling we it might have been better with gut stringing! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Good 2009
Has anyone experimented w/ tuning their ren guitar into a ukelele? Sean Ducking Shoes Smith On Dec 28, 2008, at 4:10 PM, Orphenica wrote: Charles Browne schrieb: it might have been better with gut stringing! You are right! When I first met Toyohiko Satoh, it seemed to me that he was obesessed by the idea that most human problems, e.g. sloth, wrath, envy, bad mouth taste and lack of guitarists' stamina in adopting the lute originate in NOT using gut strings. When I held my first instrument with gut strings in my hands, I instantaneously knew how he was perfectly right ;-) Nonetheless all the best for the years to come (due to the financial crisis and the prices of gut already known as the Nylon years) we Charles Browne schrieb: it might have been better with gut stringing! Orphenica wrote: To all crisis ridden vocal, flute and string players in the world, May you all (except Igor) master the coming year like he is doing in this video. With creativity, talent and not least, humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU Pling we it might have been better with gut stringing! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
