[LUTE] Re: Luthier , Engineered Best , Fastest , Cheapest[Scanned]
And many years ago - before the main early music revival and Ovation- Maccaferro (Sp?) made a serious plastic guitar. Maccafero, of course, was the luthier made famous by Django Rheinhardt. Likewise, the turtleback instruments of Ovation are quite serviceable, but not the same as acoustic guitars. Even though they can be cheaper than acoustic guitars, and have many desirable qualities, a lot of acoustic guitarists have no interest in them whatsoever, because the characteristics are not those of acoustic guitars. Others, considering these sensibilities to be on the order of audiophiles who will fight to the death that they can hear things that they can't, couldn't care less, and form a small but paying audience (well, group of consumers.) These instruments are quite 20th/21st century... but they are something considerably less than even recreations of the originals. The world is filled with Middle-eastern lutes and bagpipes, cheap, unplayable, and not-quite-the-real-thing. Do we need more fo them, made from space-age materials, but specifically intended to be cheap? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luthier , Engineered Best , Fastest , Cheapest[Scanned]
And many years ago - before the main early music revival and Ovation-Maccaferro (Sp?) made a serious plastic guitar. Maccafero, of course, was the luthier made famous by Django Rheinhardt. Very correct, Daniel, although it would have been more germane to the point if you had also mentioned Maccaferri's plastic reeds, which were enough of a success that they continued to be made through WWII despite rationing. (They had the endorsement of Benny Goodman!) As for his plastic guitars, one biographer says, Alas, his Maccaferri plastic guitars, while conceived as a serious musical instrument, were not a market success. The article goes on to note that his plastic Ukes (with the Arthur Godfrey 'Chord Finder', basically an button-driven autoharp arrangement moulded into the neck over the fingerboard) _was_ a success. http://www.lutherie.net/mario_en.html I have no doubt that a good quality plastic uke will be readily accepted in the world-at-large, again, as the plastic recorder was accepted and has, indeed, grown both in volume and quality. These days, it is not outside reason for a semi-pro to consider a good Aulos or Yamaha plastic alto or tenor for solo work, and whole successful scholastic programs are based on inexpensive, but workable instruments. (With the reverse pressure from the fact that an important part of the art of playing recorder is dealing with the vagueries of wood, undulating bore shape, and fingerings which are individual to each historical recorder!) I could go on. Probably the best, and shortest, example is in plastic reeds, in which Maccaferri had such a hit. For the single-reed instruments, plastic reeds can be a godsend, and companies like Rico make many varieties, now. For the doublereeds... well, other than Keep one in the case for emergencies, then don't have emergencies, there isn't much to say. They're both reeds, but in one case, applying high technology materials worked well, and in the other, it has never caught on. (A side note, parallel to the Try parts of lutes and an association with real luthiers: for double reed instruments, pantograph reed profile copying machines are viable and useful. Bloody expensive, and you have to have something to copy, but at least you get something that, with a bit of tweaking, you can play music on.) So I reiterate: plastic lutes don't seem to me to be a wise way to try to establish rapid-prototyping as a viable manufacturing approach. Your mileage may vary. ray To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luthier , Engineered Best , Fastest , Cheapest[Scanned]
Ray and others I own a plastic Maccaferri ukulele. Apparently there were about 9 million of them sold (says Wikipedia). The 'chord-finder' gadget is not moulded onto the neck, but attaches with little hooks and straps. It is a real instrument, loud, bright, and has good intonation. By the way: I understand from recorder players that plastic recorders sound and behave a lot like surviving ivory recorders. I sometimes use the Maccaferri as the cheapest renaissance guitar ever - though not in concerts (yet) :-)) I would be highly interested to try a plastic lute. Jelma On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM, William Brohinsky tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: And many years ago - before the main early music revival and Ovation-Maccaferro (Sp?) made a serious plastic guitar. Maccafero, of course, was the luthier made famous by Django Rheinhardt. Very correct, Daniel, although it would have been more germane to the point if you had also mentioned Maccaferri's plastic reeds, which were enough of a success that they continued to be made through WWII despite rationing. (They had the endorsement of Benny Goodman!) As for his plastic guitars, one biographer says, Alas, his Maccaferri plastic guitars, while conceived as a serious musical instrument, were not a market success. The article goes on to note that his plastic Ukes (with the Arthur Godfrey 'Chord Finder', basically an button-driven autoharp arrangement moulded into the neck over the fingerboard) _was_ a success. http://www.lutherie.net/mario_en.html I have no doubt that a good quality plastic uke will be readily accepted in the world-at-large, again, as the plastic recorder was accepted and has, indeed, grown both in volume and quality. These days, it is not outside reason for a semi-pro to consider a good Aulos or Yamaha plastic alto or tenor for solo work, and whole successful scholastic programs are based on inexpensive, but workable instruments. (With the reverse pressure from the fact that an important part of the art of playing recorder is dealing with the vagueries of wood, undulating bore shape, and fingerings which are individual to each historical recorder!) I could go on. Probably the best, and shortest, example is in plastic reeds, in which Maccaferri had such a hit. For the single-reed instruments, plastic reeds can be a godsend, and companies like Rico make many varieties, now. For the doublereeds... well, other than Keep one in the case for emergencies, then don't have emergencies, there isn't much to say. They're both reeds, but in one case, applying high technology materials worked well, and in the other, it has never caught on. (A side note, parallel to the Try parts of lutes and an association with real luthiers: for double reed instruments, pantograph reed profile copying machines are viable and useful. Bloody expensive, and you have to have something to copy, but at least you get something that, with a bit of tweaking, you can play music on.) So I reiterate: plastic lutes don't seem to me to be a wise way to try to establish rapid-prototyping as a viable manufacturing approach. Your mileage may vary. ray To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luthier , Engineered Best , Fastest , Cheapest[Scanned]
On Fri, May 15, 2009, William Brohinsky tiorbin...@gmail.com said: Earlier in the renaissance revival, George Kelischek engineered inexpensive krummhorns using ABS plastic and plastic reeds. They were far cheaper than wooden krummhorns, and were intended to be quite popular with schools and amateur groups. His reeds were (are) a serious improvement over the state of the art (then available from EMS/London and Bradford); however, GK decided to employ metric tube, he also sold sleves so you could adap instruments as needed. They were expensive then, and are even more so now; but have worked well for me in every instrument I have prototyped that could use them - this decades later. I never tried his plastic crumhorns, the visual issues put me off from the get-go, but his reeds are a good thing. They might be being used in bagpipes today, if he still has them in the catalog there must be a market, GK is definately a man with an eye on the marketplace. A major benefit of plastic for woodwinds is that when they get funky you can give em a bath. Not just children who are fond of mixing food with music :-). There were a few plastic recorders made with removable blocks, replace the block with a carefully made cedar one and you had a very good instrument. One caution to all would-be makers, some composite materials exhibit thermo-plastic properties at temperatures not too much higher than comfortable room temperature; such will deform if left in a car parked in the sun. Yes, wooden instruments are often waxed externally, and the wax also softens under similar conditinos, glueing the instrument to its case lining (or bag), and high temperatures are also bad for glue joints; wise musicians plan car trips to avoid such risks, park under trees, on the shady side of the street etc. In this very list we have admitted on several occaisions that there is a need for inexpensive playable instruments. Give this fellows ideas some room, he just might be able to pull it off - and better for him to do so with honest advice. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luthier , Engineered Best , Fastest , Cheapest[Scanned]
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: In this very list we have admitted on several occaisions that there is a need for inexpensive playable instruments. Give this fellows ideas some room, he just might be able to pull it off - and better for him to do so with honest advice. Fair enough. There are plans of lutes available from various museums with instruments. The Hague Gemeentemuseum, for example, and Cité de la Musique in Paris, too, I believe. Robert Lundberg's book 'Historical Lute Construction' has basic plans of the Erlangen Series Lute Plans. The Guild of American Luthiers will send you these as full size blackline prints. It's a start. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luthier , Engineered Best , Fastest , Cheapest[Scanned]
Didn't know about the reeds, but I did have to glue a cracked, plastic uke back together once during my unfortunate year as a repair drone in a really 2nd rate guitar dealer/repair shop. As to the germanery of plastic reeds, we have been struggling for the past 30 years or more to get out from under the tyranny of plastic strings- Keep a spare .40 mm nylon treble in the case for emergencies, then don't have emergencies -if I may paraphrase. (Yes, I do just that!) I agree that the rapid-prototyping seems highly unlikely, plus Mustafa's commercially oriented pitch is unattractive, but as David Dana point out: In this very list we have admitted on several occasions that there is a need for inexpensive playable instruments. Give this fellow's ideas some room, he just might be able to pull it off - and better for him to do so with honest advice. Fair enough. There are plans of lutes available from various museums with instruments. The Hague Gemeentemuseum, for example, and Cité de la Musique in Paris, too, I believe. Robert Lundberg's book 'Historical Lute Construction' has basic plans of the Erlangen Series Lute Plans. The Guild of American Luthiers will send you these as full size blackline prints. It's a start. After all this talk, I must admit that I could really use a decent, acceptable sounding 8 course bread-and-butter Renaissance tenor work horse lute that would appear on my doorstep tomorrow AM for only $39.99 charged to my Visa. And I would string it in GUT! Irony and better sound in the same package- that's a two-fer. It's starting to sound a little Star Trekkish- Computer, (Patrick Stewart's voice) eight course Frei tenor, 62 cm. SL, A-415 pitch standard, and a dry martini, please. Dan Very correct, Daniel, although it would have been more germane to the point if you had also mentioned Maccaferri's plastic reeds, which were enough of a success that they continued to be made through WWII despite rationing. (They had the endorsement of Benny Goodman!) I could go on. Probably the best, and shortest, example is in plastic reeds, in which Maccaferri had such a hit. For the single-reed instruments, plastic reeds can be a godsend, and companies like Rico make many varieties, now. For the doublereeds... well, other than Keep one in the case for emergencies, then don't have emergencies, there isn't much to say. They're both reeds, but in one case, applying high technology materials worked well, and in the other, it has never caught on. (A side note, parallel to the Try parts of lutes and an association with real luthiers: for double reed instruments, pantograph reed profile copying machines are viable and useful. Bloody expensive, and you have to have something to copy, but at least you get something that, with a bit of tweaking, you can play music on.) So I reiterate: plastic lutes don't seem to me to be a wise way to try to establish rapid-prototyping as a viable manufacturing approach. Your mileage may vary. ray -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luthier , Engineered Best , Fastest , Cheapest[Scanned]
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net wrote: It's starting to sound a little Star Trekkish- Computer, (Patrick Stewart's voice) eight course Frei tenor, 62 cm. SL, A-415 pitch standard, and a dry martini, please. Earl grey, you mean. David - hidden trekky: boldy gowing forward, cannot find reverse -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Society 'closed' till 24th May / Paris summer school
On May 16, 2009, at 6:00 PM, lute...@aol.com wrote: Dear all I won't be able to reply to emails, send out orders etc between 16th and 24th May, as, God willing, I will be playing accompaniments for singers on a boat in Venice between those dates. In the meantime here are some details of one more summer school. - all the best, Chris Goodwin Congratulations Chris on what sounds like a dream gig. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
