[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments
I don't have a date - I'm thinking back 20 years or so. I imagine I got the information from Anne Hayman or Bill Taylor. Anne, if I remember her correctly, had some madcap theory to do with folk-lore, pixies, spiritual lay lines, and god-knows what else - although may be doing her a disservice. But neither Anne nor Bill gave any credence to my thory of b and b flat. Rob 2009/12/26 <[1]dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us> >The Scots/Irish clarsach (medieval wire-string harp) of yore had the >two central strings tuned to b, and were referred to as the 'two >sisters'. I have a couple of theories as to why this should be. 1) one >of them was b flat Thanks for the mention, this is the first I have heard of the 'two sisters', dont recall it in Roslyn Rensch's book on harps (my copy is the 1998 edition, I see a 2007 now). Any date for first mention? I am inclined to agree with you, scholars lacking solid evidence in either direction will argue all round the barn, but I see the practical side of it, b-flat is the first accidental needed, so would be the first provided. Keyboards, harp, hammered dulcimer; regular spacing between the courses is a major aspect in play, to violate it would not be done casually, there had to be some reason favoring the use of the 'two sisters', and having both b and b-flat available seems to me the only reason. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings/silk strings
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote: > this overcast December 26th. A very special "Thank You" to DvO for his > exceptional & encyclopedic website; I navigated to this page after > viewing the one he posted- > > http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/sashimisen/things_japanese/aware_f.html :-) Glad my private joys find a wider appreciation. > So how was dinner? OT: The day before I had cleaned a 2kg squid (google Giant Squid and Colossal Squid for mouthwatering and/or scary pictures), so we had some raw, as well carefully undercooked bits, cut and scored, with strips of eggplant, a few slivers of a chopped union (shapes matter) and half a dried chili, besides stir fried shrimps with sprouts and more union, leek and Turkish pepper, besides chicory and varied other vegetables from the oven, Junko made her inimitable Juntucky fried chicken bits (also known as unlucky fried chicken) and there were numerous other dishes with all sorts of tidbits. A glass of Belgian Tripple during cooking and a bottle of good Malbec on the table. Today was a bit more sober: cantatas by Graupner, Endler and Bach (3rd from the Weihnachtsoratorium). Rehearsal and concert on one day, very hip. Tomorrow we'll get another shot at it. -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments
>The Scots/Irish clarsach (medieval wire-string harp) of yore had the >two central strings tuned to b, and were referred to as the 'two >sisters'. I have a couple of theories as to why this should be. 1) one >of them was b flat Thanks for the mention, this is the first I have heard of the 'two sisters', dont recall it in Roslyn Rensch's book on harps (my copy is the 1998 edition, I see a 2007 now). Any date for first mention? I am inclined to agree with you, scholars lacking solid evidence in either direction will argue all round the barn, but I see the practical side of it, b-flat is the first accidental needed, so would be the first provided. Keyboards, harp, hammered dulcimer; regular spacing between the courses is a major aspect in play, to violate it would not be done casually, there had to be some reason favoring the use of the 'two sisters', and having both b and b-flat available seems to me the only reason. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tye
I know Tye's In Nomine's for viols and in my opinion they are amongst the top ensemble pieces of the mid 16th century. Merry Christmas to y'all (late, but even so!) Lex van Sante Op 26 dec 2009, om 14:54 heeft Peter Martin het volgende geschreven: Matthew Spring's book contains a reference to Christopher Tye's Acts of The Apostles, published in 1553, with music "to synge and also play upon the Lute". However, Tye's book (available on EEBO) doesn't have any lute tablature, just four voice parts. Has anyone tried doing these songs on lute? Worth the effort? P -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dd tunings/silk strings
Apparently i lost the track of who is looking for the silk strings. Please e-mail me directly. alexander On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:25:44 -0800 Daniel Winheld wrote: >Thanks everyone. Hope to make contact with Rakov in regard to silk >strings. > > Playing from the Siena Ms. on my last pair of gut trebles this >morning- (doubled first on my "Chambure" copy vihuela) during the >gentle haze of a happy holiday hangover is a most poignant moment on >this overcast December 26th. A very special "Thank You" to DvO for his >exceptional & encyclopedic website; I navigated to this page after >viewing the one he posted- > >http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/sashimisen/things_japanese/aware_f.html > > "Mono no Aware - A Sensitivity to Things" > >In and of itself, the right hangover can put one directly into an >intense state of Mono no Aware, and this page on it is a must reading >for musicians on this list. Two more candidates for sublime Mono no >Aware that I've encountered lately are "Ego flos campi" from the Song >of Songs set by Jacob Clemens non Papa (Achingly positive) and "Je >Prens Congie" by Nicolas Gombert (achingly negative, like "Mille >Regretz" but sadder) > >Happy Interholiday Moments to all- Dan > > http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/sashimisen/things_japanese/koto_f.ht > ml > > David - going to cook now :-) > >So how was dinner? > > -- > >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings/silk strings
Thanks everyone. Hope to make contact with Rakov in regard to silk strings. Playing from the Siena Ms. on my last pair of gut trebles this morning- (doubled first on my "Chambure" copy vihuela) during the gentle haze of a happy holiday hangover is a most poignant moment on this overcast December 26th. A very special "Thank You" to DvO for his exceptional & encyclopedic website; I navigated to this page after viewing the one he posted- http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/sashimisen/things_japanese/aware_f.html "Mono no Aware - A Sensitivity to Things" In and of itself, the right hangover can put one directly into an intense state of Mono no Aware, and this page on it is a must reading for musicians on this list. Two more candidates for sublime Mono no Aware that I've encountered lately are "Ego flos campi" from the Song of Songs set by Jacob Clemens non Papa (Achingly positive) and "Je Prens Congie" by Nicolas Gombert (achingly negative, like "Mille Regretz" but sadder) Happy Interholiday Moments to all- Dan http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/sashimisen/things_japanese/koto_f.ht ml David - going to cook now :-) So how was dinner? -- -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments
The top string is a, two bottom - e. The lowest string is fingered with the thumb, and the chords are built like: (from the bottom) e-a-c, and such. a On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:48:19 -0500 (EST) dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > > > I'm not sure I understand the question :) > > The problem is MusicXML, which records only fret and midi-pitch for modern > tabulature. > > Modern tabulature is basically french form using numerals. Guitar, banjo, > and mandolin (possibly bouzuki and modern cittern too) are published in > modern tabulature; and musicXML is becoming a popular plain-text file > format. > > I am not sure that it is enough to record fret and pitch (as musicXML does). > > I am reminded here that this is not good enough for some tunings of > 5-string banjo where it leaves a series of ambiguous notes on courses 1 & > 5. > > I am not familiar with balalaika play to know if the doubbled top strings > are commonly stopped independantly, or always played as a single course. > -- > Dana Emery > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments
> I'm not sure I understand the question :) The problem is MusicXML, which records only fret and midi-pitch for modern tabulature. Modern tabulature is basically french form using numerals. Guitar, banjo, and mandolin (possibly bouzuki and modern cittern too) are published in modern tabulature; and musicXML is becoming a popular plain-text file format. I am not sure that it is enough to record fret and pitch (as musicXML does). I am reminded here that this is not good enough for some tunings of 5-string banjo where it leaves a series of ambiguous notes on courses 1 & 5. I am not familiar with balalaika play to know if the doubbled top strings are commonly stopped independantly, or always played as a single course. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tye
Hello Christopher, Tye's book sets out the first 14 chapters of the Acts of the Apostles, from the New Testament, rewritten in rhyming couplets. At the head of each chapter is a setting for four voices of the first couple of verses. The music looks simple, but has some compositional tricks in it: chapter 9 has two voices in canon and chapter 14 has all four. The interest for me is not just that this is early in the Protestant adventure (though Tye's timing was not that great, since 1553 was the year that 'Bloody' Mary came to the throne), but also - a) that it's very early in the English lute adventure, at least in terms of surviving music b) that Tye is one of the great 16th century English composers c) that the book was dedicated to Prince (sic) Edward, himself a lutenist according to Spring (p. 54). Tye is bold enough in his preface to suggest that the king should play these verses on his lute instead of songs of 'wanton love'. So it would be great if they were indeed viable lute repertoire. Peter 2009/12/26 Christopher Stetson <[1]cstet...@smith.edu> I've worked some from Richard Allison's "Psalmes of David..." years ago, but not Tye. I'd have to check, but I remember Allison as having lute, cittern, and bass (viol) parts, along with vocal quartet. It was interesting, but IMO it depends how Protestant you want to get whether they're worth the effort. Tye's 1553 publication date, so early in the English Protestant adventure, might make it illuminating. Do you know what the relation is to the New Testament book of the same name? Best, and keep playing yet again, Chris. >>> Peter Martin <[2]peter.l...@gmail.com> 12/26/2009 8:54 AM >>> Matthew Spring's book contains a reference to Christopher Tye's Acts of The Apostles, published in 1553, with music "to synge and also play upon the Lute". However, Tye's book (available on EEBO) doesn't have any lute tablature, just four voice parts. Has anyone tried doing these songs on lute? Worth the effort? P -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute -- References 1. mailto:cstet...@smith.edu 2. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[LUTE] Re: Tye
I've worked some from Richard Allison's "Psalmes of David..." years ago, but not Tye. I'd have to check, but I remember Allison as having lute, cittern, and bass (viol) parts, along with vocal quartet. It was interesting, but IMO it depends how Protestant you want to get whether they're worth the effort. Tye's 1553 publication date, so early in the English Protestant adventure, might make it illuminating. Do you know what the relation is to the New Testament book of the same name? Best, and keep playing yet again, Chris. >>> Peter Martin 12/26/2009 8:54 AM >>> Matthew Spring's book contains a reference to Christopher Tye's Acts of The Apostles, published in 1553, with music "to synge and also play upon the Lute". However, Tye's book (available on EEBO) doesn't have any lute tablature, just four voice parts. Has anyone tried doing these songs on lute? Worth the effort? P -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[LUTE] Re: Silk String Sources
It might be -- wonderful place, definitely stop by if you're in SF -- but most Chinese instrument makers, at least the mainstream ones, have gone over to "modern" materials like steel, nylon, or nylon wound over metal, for strings. As David v. O. points out, though, Japanese shamisen and koto players still favor silk. As per my other email, Alexander Rakov would be my first stop. Best to all, and still keep playing, Chris. >>> Daniel Winheld 12/26/2009 8:03 AM >>> This place might be worth checking out. Next time I'm in Chinatown for dim sum I will. Some years ago I went there and discovered that Erhu bows don't work for bass viols; I had forgotten about that place since then. [1]http://www.clarionmusic.com/ Ron- That is Rakov, not Batov? I would be very interested in his strings also. (treble trouble, as usual) > David: >You would do well to contact Alexander Rakov, the silk string >specialist who contributes regularly to this list. I've tried his silk >strings on my six-course lute and found the trebles to be, well, silky >and also clear and strong. They are remarkably consistent and the >basses far more responsive than gut basses I have used. >Best wishes, >Ron Andrico >www.mignarda.com >> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:49:26 +0100 >> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> From: davidvanooi...@gmail.com >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments > >> California has a lively community of koto and shamisen players, it >> shouldn't be too difficult to find some thinner gauges, silk strings >> for shamisen to try out on your mandolin or lute. >> >> David -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.clarionmusic.com/ 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[LUTE] Re: Silk String Sources
Yes, and he's quick, personable, and easy to deal with (Hi, Alexander!). I've got his silk strings on several of my Asian instruments, and have been meaning to send him off an email about silk for my 10-course. I'm surprised he hasn't responded to this thread yet, in fact. I hope it's because he's having a nice holiday. Best to all, and keep playing, Chris. >>> Ron Andrico 12/26/2009 9:31 AM >>> Dan: It's Rakov, as Roman points out. He is generally quiet about it but has been making fine strings for several years and published an interesting article on silk strings in the Lute News 58, June 2001. Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com alexander > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 05:03:31 -0800 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: dwinh...@comcast.net > Subject: [LUTE] Silk String Sources > > This place might be worth checking out. Next time I'm in Chinatown > for dim sum I will. Some years ago I went there and discovered that > Erhu bows don't work for bass viols; I had forgotten about that place > since then. > > [1]http://www.clarionmusic.com/ > > Ron- That is Rakov, not Batov? I would be very interested in his > strings also. (treble trouble, as usual) > > > David: > > You would do well to contact Alexander Rakov, the silk string > > specialist who contributes regularly to this list. I've tried his silk > > strings on my six-course lute and found the trebles to be, well, silky > > and also clear and strong. They are remarkably consistent and the > > basses far more responsive than gut basses I have used. > > Best wishes, > > Ron Andrico > > www.mignarda.com > > > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:49:26 +0100 > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > From: davidvanooi...@gmail.com > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments > > > > > California has a lively community of koto and shamisen players, it > > > shouldn't be too difficult to find some thinner gauges, silk strings > > > for shamisen to try out on your mandolin or lute. > > > > > > David > > -- > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. [3]http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ -- References 1. http://www.clarionmusic.com/ 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute 3. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
[LUTE] Re: Silk String Sources
Dan: It's Rakov, as Roman points out. He is generally quiet about it but has been making fine strings for several years and published an interesting article on silk strings in the Lute News 58, June 2001. Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com alexander > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 05:03:31 -0800 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: dwinh...@comcast.net > Subject: [LUTE] Silk String Sources > > This place might be worth checking out. Next time I'm in Chinatown > for dim sum I will. Some years ago I went there and discovered that > Erhu bows don't work for bass viols; I had forgotten about that place > since then. > > http://www.clarionmusic.com/ > > Ron- That is Rakov, not Batov? I would be very interested in his > strings also. (treble trouble, as usual) > > > David: > > You would do well to contact Alexander Rakov, the silk string > > specialist who contributes regularly to this list. I've tried his silk > > strings on my six-course lute and found the trebles to be, well, silky > > and also clear and strong. They are remarkably consistent and the > > basses far more responsive than gut basses I have used. > > Best wishes, > > Ron Andrico > > www.mignarda.com > > > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:49:26 +0100 > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > From: davidvanooi...@gmail.com > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments > > > > > California has a lively community of koto and shamisen players, it > > > shouldn't be too difficult to find some thinner gauges, silk strings > > > for shamisen to try out on your mandolin or lute. > > > > > > David > > -- > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
[LUTE] Tye
Matthew Spring's book contains a reference to Christopher Tye's Acts of The Apostles, published in 1553, with music "to synge and also play upon the Lute". However, Tye's book (available on EEBO) doesn't have any lute tablature, just four voice parts. Has anyone tried doing these songs on lute? Worth the effort? P -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Silk String Sources
RaYkov. RT - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" To: Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Silk String Sources This place might be worth checking out. Next time I'm in Chinatown for dim sum I will. Some years ago I went there and discovered that Erhu bows don't work for bass viols; I had forgotten about that place since then. http://www.clarionmusic.com/ Ron- That is Rakov, not Batov? I would be very interested in his strings also. (treble trouble, as usual) David: You would do well to contact Alexander Rakov, the silk string specialist who contributes regularly to this list. I've tried his silk strings on my six-course lute and found the trebles to be, well, silky and also clear and strong. They are remarkably consistent and the basses far more responsive than gut basses I have used. Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:49:26 +0100 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: davidvanooi...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments > California has a lively community of koto and shamisen players, it > shouldn't be too difficult to find some thinner gauges, silk strings > for shamisen to try out on your mandolin or lute. > > David -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Silk String Sources
This place might be worth checking out. Next time I'm in Chinatown for dim sum I will. Some years ago I went there and discovered that Erhu bows don't work for bass viols; I had forgotten about that place since then. http://www.clarionmusic.com/ Ron- That is Rakov, not Batov? I would be very interested in his strings also. (treble trouble, as usual) > David: >You would do well to contact Alexander Rakov, the silk string >specialist who contributes regularly to this list. I've tried his silk >strings on my six-course lute and found the trebles to be, well, silky >and also clear and strong. They are remarkably consistent and the >basses far more responsive than gut basses I have used. >Best wishes, >Ron Andrico >www.mignarda.com >> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:49:26 +0100 >> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> From: davidvanooi...@gmail.com >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments > >> California has a lively community of koto and shamisen players, it >> shouldn't be too difficult to find some thinner gauges, silk strings >> for shamisen to try out on your mandolin or lute. >> >> David -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments
David: You would do well to contact Alexander Rakov, the silk string specialist who contributes regularly to this list. I've tried his silk strings on my six-course lute and found the trebles to be, well, silky and also clear and strong. They are remarkably consistent and the basses far more responsive than gut basses I have used. Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:49:26 +0100 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: davidvanooi...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments > > On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 7:18 AM, David Tayler wrote: > > David--I'm sorry if I asked you this before, but can the silk koto > > strings be adapted for lute trebles? > > Koto strings are too thick, I should think. Perhaps one can get a > thinner set, but that would still be too thick. It's one size fits > all, as the movable bridges decide the pitch. > Shamisen (three strings) uses thinner gauges. These strings are > stretched very easily, quite the opposite from gut, and are used at > different pitches over quite a range. One even has to tune to a > different tuning during a piece quite frequently. For my shamisen I > have some silk strings - nylon too, big difference! - but never tried > these on a lute. > California has a lively community of koto and shamisen players, it > shouldn't be too difficult to find some thinner gauges, silk strings > for shamisen to try out on your mandolin or lute. > > David > -- > *** > David van Ooijen > davidvanooi...@gmail.com > www.davidvanooijen.nl > *** > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
[LUTE] Hoppy Smith Documentary????
Hi all, I recently was reading a short bio on Miguel Ysrael (formerly Miguel Serdoura) and noticed that 'in 2000 he took part in a television documentary devoted to the lutenist Hopkinson Smith' I couldn't find anything else on the web mentioning it Does anyone know about this? Oskar __ Meet singles at ninemsn dating [1]Looking for a great date? -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Q on odd tunings for plucked instruments
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 7:18 AM, David Tayler wrote: > David--I'm sorry if I asked you this before, but can the silk koto > strings be adapted for lute trebles? Koto strings are too thick, I should think. Perhaps one can get a thinner set, but that would still be too thick. It's one size fits all, as the movable bridges decide the pitch. Shamisen (three strings) uses thinner gauges. These strings are stretched very easily, quite the opposite from gut, and are used at different pitches over quite a range. One even has to tune to a different tuning during a piece quite frequently. For my shamisen I have some silk strings - nylon too, big difference! - but never tried these on a lute. California has a lively community of koto and shamisen players, it shouldn't be too difficult to find some thinner gauges, silk strings for shamisen to try out on your mandolin or lute. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
