[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord
Am 22.11.2010, 13:49 Uhr, schrieb Nicolás Valencia nivalenl...@gmail.com: Dear all, According to Richard Stone's article, Weiss's Concerted Music: A Catalogue with Commentary, published in the latest LSA Journal, some duets by Weiss include alternate instrumentations, i.e. lute flute, lute lute or lute harpsichord, although only the lute part survived. I have Stones edition of the Weiss Lute Concerti here, and I guess the article draws on the introduction there? Unfortunately some of the SC numbers Stone gives for the Salzburg Lautencodex pieces don't match the numbers in the catalogues on the SLWeiss-site. For example, Stone has SC 27 + 57 for no. III, the catalogues 27 + 52. For no. V Stone has SC 68, aginst 69 in the web incipits. And so on. Can anyone shed some light on this? Best regards, Stephan BTW: Does anyone have the Salzburg MS (M III 25)? I can' find it indexed on the website of the library. I know Stone, Schroeder and Cardin's reconstructions for flute lute and lute lute, but I was wondering if there's any lute harpsichord recording of these duets. Any other composer wrote for both instruments? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord
I have a copy of the Salzburg Lautencodex Ms III 25 which contains these Weiss works (mostly for liutho, violino and basso but only the lute tablature survives). Other composers include: Meckh, Block(Bloch), Lauf(f)ensteiner, Bohr. I have no evidence that the Weiss pieces in this Ms were originally composed as duets for two lutes and think it more likely they were originally solos (many have concordances with solo sources) with string treble and bass added (by Weiss or others?) as was the fashion at the time. Many of the pieces by other composers may have been conceived as concerted works in the first place since the lute parts often have passages of continuo type texture. I don't have the LSA journal you mention so can't comment on the numbering. Incidentally I think we need to be careful in assuming that any part labelled 'Basso' in this repertoire implies a keyboard instrument as well as a melodic bass (such as bass violin, cello etc): I think it more likely that no keyboard was expected (compare with extant trios for lute, violin basso) MH --- On Sun, 28/11/10, Stephan Olbertz stephan.olbe...@web.de wrote: From: Stephan Olbertz stephan.olbe...@web.de Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 28 November, 2010, 9:29 Am 22.11.2010, 13:49 Uhr, schrieb Nicolas Valencia [1]nivalenl...@gmail.com: Dear all, According to Richard Stone's article, Weiss's Concerted Music: A Catalogue with Commentary, published in the latest LSA Journal, some duets by Weiss include alternate instrumentations, i.e. lute flute, lute lute or lute harpsichord, although only the lute part survived. I have Stones edition of the Weiss Lute Concerti here, and I guess the article draws on the introduction there? Unfortunately some of the SC numbers Stone gives for the Salzburg Lautencodex pieces don't match the numbers in the catalogues on the SLWeiss-site. For example, Stone has SC 27 + 57 for no. III, the catalogues 27 + 52. For no. V Stone has SC 68, aginst 69 in the web incipits. And so on. Can anyone shed some light on this? Best regards, Stephan BTW: Does anyone have the Salzburg MS (M III 25)? I can' find it indexed on the website of the library. I know Stone, Schroeder and Cardin's reconstructions for flute lute and lute lute, but I was wondering if there's any lute harpsichord recording of these duets. Any other composer wrote for both instruments? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --Erstellt mit Operas revolutionaerem E-Mail-Modul: [3]http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- References 1. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nivalenl...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.opera.com/mail/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord
Dear Martyn, thank you for your answer, to which I fully agree. Actually I was only refering to Stone's overview on concerted works by Weiss, without assuming that they were duets. In his published reconstruction of the lute concerti (recent researches in the music of the baroque era, 136, a-r editions) he gives a list of 19 still extant chamber music works (appendix 1), where the Salzburg trios are included, but with a numbering that partly doesn't match other catalogues. (Appendix 2 and 3 list references to 24 to 70 works presumed lost, and five extant, but dubious works.) How many of the 50 pieces in Salzburg would you think are of the colla-parte-type? Regards, Stephan Am 28.11.2010, 10:49 Uhr, schrieb Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk: I have a copy of the Salzburg Lautencodex Ms III 25 which contains these Weiss works (mostly for liutho, violino and basso but only the lute tablature survives). Other composers include: Meckh, Block(Bloch), Lauf(f)ensteiner, Bohr. I have no evidence that the Weiss pieces in this Ms were originally composed as duets for two lutes and think it more likely they were originally solos (many have concordances with solo sources) with string treble and bass added (by Weiss or others?) as was the fashion at the time. Many of the pieces by other composers may have been conceived as concerted works in the first place since the lute parts often have passages of continuo type texture. I don't have the LSA journal you mention so can't comment on the numbering. Incidentally I think we need to be careful in assuming that any part labelled 'Basso' in this repertoire implies a keyboard instrument as well as a melodic bass (such as bass violin, cello etc): I think it more likely that no keyboard was expected (compare with extant trios for lute, violin basso) MH --- On Sun, 28/11/10, Stephan Olbertz stephan.olbe...@web.de wrote: From: Stephan Olbertz stephan.olbe...@web.de Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 28 November, 2010, 9:29 Am 22.11.2010, 13:49 Uhr, schrieb Nicolas Valencia [1]nivalenl...@gmail.com: Dear all, According to Richard Stone's article, Weiss's Concerted Music: A Catalogue with Commentary, published in the latest LSA Journal, some duets by Weiss include alternate instrumentations, i.e. lute flute, lute lute or lute harpsichord, although only the lute part survived. I have Stones edition of the Weiss Lute Concerti here, and I guess the article draws on the introduction there? Unfortunately some of the SC numbers Stone gives for the Salzburg Lautencodex pieces don't match the numbers in the catalogues on the SLWeiss-site. For example, Stone has SC 27 + 57 for no. III, the catalogues 27 + 52. For no. V Stone has SC 68, aginst 69 in the web incipits. And so on. Can anyone shed some light on this? Best regards, Stephan BTW: Does anyone have the Salzburg MS (M III 25)? I can' find it indexed on the website of the library. I know Stone, Schroeder and Cardin's reconstructions for flute lute and lute lute, but I was wondering if there's any lute harpsichord recording of these duets. Any other composer wrote for both instruments? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --Erstellt mit Operas revolutionaerem E-Mail-Modul: [3]http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- References 1. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nivalenl...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Leo Kottke with Robert Barto
I am announcing a concert tomorrow night, Monday, 11-29-10. It is with Leo Kottke and Bob Barto. http://www.suemclean.com/shows/leo-kottke?utm_source=Facebookutm_medium=CPCutm_content=Leo+Kottke+-+11%2F29utm_campaign=sma10%2F11%2F20+-+Leo+Kottke This ought to be a fabulous event, so if anyone is close to Minneapolis, please try to come. Neither performer needs introduction, and I think it is a fabulous idea to have these 2 respective virtuosi on the same show, although one genre is classical, the other folk. They are only doing this one show together, but I hope there will be more. This kind of exposure, in having Bob perform with such a famous musician, is certainly good for Bob, and the lute as well. Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord
Hello Stephan, unfortunately the edition of the Weiss complete works still hadn't been finished at the time Richard Stone published his reconstruction. So some of the numbers were preliminary and had to be changed due to other editorial choices. On the Weiss site you find the current numbering of all works that will be published in the complete works of S.L.Weiss. I try to keep it up to date as Tim Crawford and Dieter Kirsch inform me. I think that the numbers now are in a fixed state, as the last volumes of the edition should be published in a little while: http://www.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=sc-listlang=eng Best regards Markus Am 28.11.2010 10:29, schrieb Stephan Olbertz: Am 22.11.2010, 13:49 Uhr, schrieb Nicolás Valencia nivalenl...@gmail.com: I have Stones edition of the Weiss Lute Concerti here, and I guess the article draws on the introduction there? Unfortunately some of the SC numbers Stone gives for the Salzburg Lautencodex pieces don't match the numbers in the catalogues on the SLWeiss-site. For example, Stone has SC 27 + 57 for no. III, the catalogues 27 + 52. For no. V Stone has SC 68, aginst 69 in the web incipits. And so on. Can anyone shed some light on this? Best regards, Stephan BTW: Does anyone have the Salzburg MS (M III 25)? I can' find it indexed on the website of the library. I know Stone, Schroeder and Cardin's reconstructions for flute lute and lute lute, but I was wondering if there's any lute harpsichord recording of these duets. Any other composer wrote for both instruments? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord
Ah, yes, I see. Thanks for the information, Markus. And thanks for a great ressource! Regards, Stephan Am 28.11.2010, 19:11 Uhr, schrieb Markus Lutz mar...@gmlutz.de: Hello Stephan, unfortunately the edition of the Weiss complete works still hadn't been finished at the time Richard Stone published his reconstruction. So some of the numbers were preliminary and had to be changed due to other editorial choices. On the Weiss site you find the current numbering of all works that will be published in the complete works of S.L.Weiss. I try to keep it up to date as Tim Crawford and Dieter Kirsch inform me. I think that the numbers now are in a fixed state, as the last volumes of the edition should be published in a little while: http://www.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=sc-listlang=eng Best regards Markus Am 28.11.2010 10:29, schrieb Stephan Olbertz: Am 22.11.2010, 13:49 Uhr, schrieb Nicolás Valencia nivalenl...@gmail.com: I have Stones edition of the Weiss Lute Concerti here, and I guess the article draws on the introduction there? Unfortunately some of the SC numbers Stone gives for the Salzburg Lautencodex pieces don't match the numbers in the catalogues on the SLWeiss-site. For example, Stone has SC 27 + 57 for no. III, the catalogues 27 + 52. For no. V Stone has SC 68, aginst 69 in the web incipits. And so on. Can anyone shed some light on this? Best regards, Stephan BTW: Does anyone have the Salzburg MS (M III 25)? I can' find it indexed on the website of the library. I know Stone, Schroeder and Cardin's reconstructions for flute lute and lute lute, but I was wondering if there's any lute harpsichord recording of these duets. Any other composer wrote for both instruments? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/
[LUTE] Scarabelli, Damiano - Jubilate Deo
hi, i have uploaded a new lute trio for 3 equal lutes. It is a very fine and interesting music, with some diminuitions! - Scarabelli, Damiano - Jubilate Deo -- (Florilegium sacrarum cantionum - Petri Phalesij 1609) Damianus Scarrabeus (Scarabelli) ?, Bologna - 1598, Milano score, parts and mp3 enjoy it here is my newest complete lute-list: 2 Lutes (10-chors) http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2ff9bbd6c00cf4bce5c3dee5769931ec581ba18fc46fe28aa7b01fe6e4055ae3 Arresti, Floriano - Ricercare 2 Lutes (ad Quartam) http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2ff9bbd6c00cf4bce5c3dee5769931ece85bafcec95ed4d2947708e37b913e74 Agricola, Alexander - De tous bien plaine Anonym - J'ay prins amours Anonym (Bay. Staatsbibl) - Martin menait son porceau au marché Anonym - Bon Jour Mamie (Bay. Staatsbibliothek) Anonym - Canzon (Bay. Staatsbibliothek) Anonym - Cosi mi guida amore - (Bay. Staatsbibliothek) Banchieri - Suonata Prima Buchner - Tandernack Cabezon - Tiento 1 del Primer Tono Cabezon - Tiento 6 del Primer Tono Cabezon - Tiento 8 del Cuarto Tono Cabezon - Tiento 9 del Quinto Tono Cabezon - Un gay Bergeir Caurroy, Eustache du - Fantasie 31 Cavazzoni, Girolamo - Canzon sopra Falt D'Argens Cima, Giovanni Paolo - Canzon 14 Diruta - Ricercare del duodecimo tono Bull - Doctor Bull's my selfe Farnaby, Giles - Spagnoletta Ferrabosco - Io mi son giovinetta (Bay. Staatsbibliothek) Grillo, Giovanni Battista - Canzona Grillo, Giovanni Battista - Canzona 2 Guami - Canzon Decimasettima Hassler - Canzon VI Hassler - Canzon 20 Henry VIII Manuscript - The base of Spayne Inglott, William - The Leaves be greene Lublin - Phantasia terzi Toni Alia Toni Maschera, Florentino - Canzon-La Mazzuola Pellegrini, Vincenzo - La Capricciosa Preston, Thomas - In Nomine Robin, Munday-Robin Thomas Lupo - Masque 2 Trabaci, Giovanni Maria - Galliard 1 2 Lutes (ad Secundam) http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2ff9bbd6c00cf4bce5c3dee5769931ec1dfabc6e2bda0fe2a601da0f25e869f4 Antegnati - Canzon Nona La Battera Cabezon - Diferencias sobre la Gallarda Milanesa Cabezon - Quaeramus (Mouton) Cabezon - Tiento 3 del Primer Tono Cabezon - Ung gai bergier Cavazzoni, Girolamo - Ricercar 1 Cima, Giovanni Paolo - Canzon 1 Cima, Giovanni Paolo - Canzon 4 Cima, Giovanni Paolo - Canzon 10 Decapella - Ung soir Guillot Gabrieli, Andrea - Rricercar del 12 tono Gabrielli, Giovanni - Canzon Terza Giles Farnaby - Mask Jannequin - Petite nymphe folastre Maschera, Florentino - Canzon IV Maschera, Florentino - Canzon XII Schmid d. Ã. - Lasso-Bon jour mon cuer 2 Lutes (Unisono) http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2ff9bbd6c00cf4bce5c3dee5769931ec4cc8e15564edcfa13e34c0a955f98962 Ammerbach - Chi passa per questa strada Anonym - En m'esbatant Anonym - La Corrente Balletto Francese Anonym - The Woods so wild Anonym - La Spagna Anonym - Una mosa falle yo Anonym - Revelies vous Anonym - Mon pere (Bay. Staatsbibliothek) Anonym - Mamie un jour (Certon-Bay. Staatsbibliothek Mus 271) Arcadelt, Jaques - Io mi pensai Arcadelt, Jaques - Quel si grave dolore Banchieri - Fantasia secunda Banchieri, Adiano - Canzon sesta Battiferri - Ricercare 10 Bassano, Giovanni - Ricercare 11 Baxter, John - Galliard to the Sacred End Bottaccio, Paolo - Canzon La Carcana Byrd - Monsieurs Alman Cabezon - Si par suffrir Cabezon - Tiento 2 del Primer Tono Cabezon - Tiento 5 del Primer Tono Cabezon - Tiento 7 del Cuarto Tono Cabezon - Tiento del Primer Tono Caprioli - Quella bella Caurroy, Eustache du - Fantasie 9 Cavaccio, Giovanni - Canzona-La Foresta Cavazzoni, Girolamo - Canzon sopra Il belle bon Cavazzoni, Girolamo - Recercar 2 Cavazzoni, Marco Antonio - Ricercare Compère, Loyset - O bone Jesu Compère, Loyset - Scaramelle fa la galle Clemens non Papa - Au joly bocquet croist la violette Dublin Virginalbook - 1.Pavan Dublin Virginalbook - 2.Galliard Dublin Virginalbook - 3.Almande-Prince Dublin Virginalbook - 4.Almand - La Pied Cheval Erbach - Canzon 8 Farnaby, Giles - loth to depart Fevin, Antoine - petite Camusette Gardane - Fusi Pavan Ghizeghem-Anonimus - De tous biens plaine Guami Gioseffo - Canzon La Guamina Gussago - Sonata 7 La Sguizzerotta Hassler, Hans Leo - Canzon I Hassler, Hans Leo - Canzon II Hassler, Hans Leo - Canzon IV Hassler, Hans Leo - Canzon V Janequin - Le Chant Des Oyseaux Japart - Tan bien mison pensa Johnson - Johnsons Medley Josquin - Adiu mes amours Lauder, James - Mylord Pavin Macque, Giovanni de - Canzon 4 Marra, Hettorre della - Spagnoletta Marra, Hettorre della - Spagnoletta (verziert) Merulo - Canzona Monte, Philipp de - Fantasia sopra que me servent Morton - Nʹaray je jamais mieulx que jʹay Mouton, Jean - Canzon in c Naich, Ubert - Che Giova Saettar Palestrina - 8 Ricercari Passereau-Il est bel et bon Passereau-Il est bel et bon (nach Mus 266) Reade, Richard - Pavan Galiarde Schmid d. J.- Anchor che col partire Schmid d. J. - Bella d'amor Schmid, Bernhard d. Ã. - Damours me plains Soderino, Agostino - La Brivia Schmid, Bernhard d. Ã.- Ung gai bergier
[LUTE] Balcarres lute book
Dear all, This might be of interest to some of you: There is a special web sale at BoydellBrewers`s (www.boydellandbrewer.com) today and on monday. Most of the books on stock, including the Balcarres lute book, are at 40% off normal prices. In order to benefit, you only need to enter the promotional code SAVE40 when checking out. I just ordered my copy of the Balcarres lute book... All the best, Bernhard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Leo Kottke with Robert Barto
I am announcing a concert tomorrow night, Monday, 11-29-10. It is with Leo Kottke and Bob Barto. http://www.suemclean.com/shows/leo-kottke?utm_source=Facebookutm_medium=CPCutm_content=Leo+Kottke+-+11%2F29utm_campaign=sma10%2F11%2F20+-+Leo+Kottke This ought to be a fabulous event, so if anyone is close to Minneapolis, please try to come. Neither performer needs introduction, and I think it is a fabulous idea to have these 2 respective virtuosi on the same show, although one genre is classical, the other folk. They are only doing this one show together, but I hope there will be more. This kind of exposure, in having Bob perform with such a famous musician, is certainly good for Bob, and the lute as well. Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Josef Klima
Hello I'm looking for the biographical data and a biographical sketch on Josef Klima. Who knows something? Thanks! Andreas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Another Isbin tune
I was at a poetry reading recently - not wholly of my own volition, but there you go. At the end, the poet, Wendy Cope, was asked how long she took to write her poems. Generally, she said, a few days and after that point she couldn't really get them any better. As an amateur player, I feel that about renditions of pieces. I've been working on another Gilbert Isbin composition and I can't get it how I'd like it (or how it deserves to be) but I hope it's OK. I could work on it more and more but really not get any better. I wonder if professionals feel like this, albeit at a much higher level of proficiency? This piece is called Afternoon Shadow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zATaSgkNi_A Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Another Isbin tune
Unfortunately my computer would only let me view the first 21 seconds of the video/audio. But what I heard/saw was very nice. Your posts have convinced me that I should have this music, so I've ordered it. I suspect that it's unlikely that I'll be getting any of these pieces up to your level in a few days, though! Ned On Nov 28, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote: I was at a poetry reading recently - not wholly of my own volition, but there you go. At the end, the poet, Wendy Cope, was asked how long she took to write her poems. Generally, she said, a few days and after that point she couldn't really get them any better. As an amateur player, I feel that about renditions of pieces. I've been working on another Gilbert Isbin composition and I can't get it how I'd like it (or how it deserves to be) but I hope it's OK. I could work on it more and more but really not get any better. I wonder if professionals feel like this, albeit at a much higher level of proficiency? This piece is called Afternoon Shadow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zATaSgkNi_A Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Another Isbin tune
On Nov 28, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote: I wonder if professionals feel like this, albeit at a much higher level of proficiency? It's not very productive in any discussion to draw a line between professionals and amateurs, as there are amateurs who play 'better' (in any definition you'd prefer) than many professionals. Is an amateur someone who earns a living with a decent job in stead of music, or is a professional someone who gets paid for playing but still has a bread-and-butter job? I don't know how to define either. Anyway, for whatever it's worth, as a professional I've learned how to study. I know how to achieve on my instrument what's in my head. I feel that, perhaps more than anything else, does distinguish a professional from an amateur who will 'have a go' at a piece, any piece. And, of course, I know the limits of what my hands can do in terms of speed, reach and such. So I stay away from pieces that I know I will not be able to play in concert. I still might study and enjoy these pieces for myself, obviously, but not in public. And when I do have to play the impossible pieces, I know how to get away with it by simplification, distraction or other devious ways. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Francesco da Milano - Ness 33
- Original Message - From: Susanne Herre [1]mandolinens...@web.de To: Lute List [2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:43 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Francesco da Milano - Ness 33 Thank you for all your responses! Sorry I didn't write clearly. I know of three versions which were kindly given to me by David van Oijen: - Siena Manuscript - Intabolatura di Liuto di M. Francesco da Milano [...] Libro Terzo, Gardano 1562 - Theatrum Musicum - Petrus Phalesius, Antuerpiensi 1571 All these versions have the opening motif with a rhythm being semibreve-minima-minima I think it is strange to have an alternation of the motif as soon as in the first imitation and I was thinking of any reason of notation / printing problems. But my theory also seems not to be very convincing because they could have started the first imitation on an upbeat if they want to use bar lines. On his CD of 2008 Hopkinson Smith plays the version written in Siena, Gardano and Phalese. It is very interesting, Jean-Marie, to know about this english version with corrected opening motif. If there are any other versions or theories - it would also be interesting to know about that. Thanks to all, Susanne Dear lute lovers, What are your opinions about the beginning of Francesco da Milano - Fantasia Ness 33 regarding the note value of the first note of the first motif? My thoughts at the moment are that maybe it happened like this: Francesco wrote the piece without bar lines. When they tried to print it with bar lines it was not possible or not common to print only an upbeat / a bar of half length. So they changed the rhythm to a very common pattern so the motif could now fit into one bar. Could that be possible? Maybe that happened with other pieces as well? Or maybe Francesco had to compose it like this because no piece like a fantasia or ricercar would start with an upbeat? Best wishes, Susanne = Dear Susanne and friends, Perhaps I might add a few comments appropriate to this discussion. Err, about 800 words about two notes.g A few years back I completed a collected edition of the music of Francesco da Milano, with which some of you are familiar. When I worked on that edition I assembled all known sources for Francesco's music, that is, altogether, some 640 pieces that were copied or printed into 16th and early 17th sources. That is standard working procedure in preparing a critical edition of music. To determine the very best reading to use as a basic source, and to discover if other sources had corrections that might be incorporated into the basic reading, I collated all those 640+++ pieces. For No. 33 the best source I had at that time was from the Intabolatura de Lauto, Libro Terzo (Venice; Antonio Gardane, 1547). So I used it, although the rhythm of the first three notes seemed to garble the opening musical idea, Francesco's favored mi-fa-mi motive. The motive dominates the entire ricercar and its companion No. 34. Why throw away a strong opening musical idea? Surely it was intended to be the same as the later imitation, three equal semibreves, rather than the semibreve-minim-minim of the Gardane exemplar (which found its way into so many later printed editions and manuscripts, as David van Ooijen showed us, in part). Six independent sources available to me at that time gave the reading which I suspected was the correct one, three long notes (semibreves) as in the answering points-of-imitation. These included one ms copied in Florence and another in Lucca; a late, otherwise very corrupt homophonic version attributed to Diomedes Cato in the Hainhofer Lautenbuecher (ca. 1603), as well as the Cambridge manuscript cited by Jean-Marie--the latter is published as Appendix 4 in the FdaM edition. So I adopted the change, marking it with [*] to indicate the emendation was found in contemporary sources. One source (the one from Lucca) even confirmed Susanne Herre's suspicions about an upbeat by inserting a rest before the first note. (Actually it's not quite an upbeat rather than a piece beginning on the second beat in triple meter, but as it comes down from Gardane falsely barred in duple.) One of the most lamented lost sources back then was an Intabulatura de lauto di M. Francesco Milanese et M. Perino [sic] Fiorentino, Libro Primo (Rome: Valerio Dorico Lodovico fratello, M. D. LXVI). I only had the first four folios (from an incomplete copy in a French library). The original print run was
[LUTE] Re: Francesco da Milano - Ness 33
I defer to Arthur in all things Francesco, however as an issue of performance practice, not musicology, I still hold that the beginning of a piece may be in free time, and that there is no urtext or composer's intent except in very rare cases (Byrd). As we can see from John and Robert Dowland, a seemingly linear succession from teacher to student can be shown to have the opposite effect: the copyist copies; the student rewrites. In the absence of holograph material, which is itself not an urtext, as composers wrote multiple versions of the same piece, we simply have the diversity of versions, which is richness copiousness. Editions which bring together multiple sources create new, previously unknown versions. However, I defer to Arthur in all things Francesco :) From wisdom comes truth. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] James Tyler
Hello A Someone announced on the french lute list, that James Tyler passed away.A I don't know if the American lute list was made aware of this.A A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Montreal, Canada -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: James Tyler
Thanks Bruno-- He will be missed. One of my earliest memories of his playing was Queen Elizabeth's Galliard--I remember thinking, yikes, that's fast! dt At 06:14 PM 11/28/2010, you wrote: Hello A Someone announced on the french lute list, that James Tyler passed away.A I don't know if the American lute list was made aware of this.A A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Montreal, Canada -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: James Tyler
Certainly will be missed, I still have my old LP's of him and Anthony Rooley playing.A He was amongst the first in the line of lute revivalists and I certainly would probably have never played lute if I hadn't listened to his records amongst others of that period.A He apparently passed away Nov. 23 after a brief hospitalization. A Bruno On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 9:20 PM, David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Thanks Bruno-- He will be missed. One of my earliest memories of his playing was Queen Elizabeth's Galliard--I remember thinking, yikes, that's fast! dt At 06:14 PM 11/28/2010, you wrote: A A Hello A A A A A Someone announced on the french lute list, that James Tyler passed A A away.A A I don't know if the American lute list was made aware of A A this.A A A A A A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A A Montreal, Canada A A -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: James Tyler
James Tyler was a great inspiration for my lute duet partner, Sandy Hackney and me when we listened to the lute duets he performed with Anthony Rooley way back in another day. And his guitar books were of great interest as well. He is missed. Dan Someone announced on the french lute list, that James Tyler passed away.A I don't know if the American lute list was made aware of this.A -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: James Tyler
Also at the forefront of reuniting baroque repertoire for mandolin[o] with the instrument for which it was intended. Still one of the very few to have recorded gut-strung mandolino in fingerstyle punteado. Missed indeed... Eugene - Original Message - From: Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:14 pm Subject: [LUTE] James Tyler To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Hello A Someone announced on the french lute list, that James Tyler passed away.A I don't know if the American lute list was made aware of this.A A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Montreal, Canada -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Marini Echo Sonata
For you delectation, the Sonata in ecco con tre violini of Biagio Marini Marini always sounds better with a few lutes. The Passacaglia in G minor is a great piece as well. [1]http://tinyurl.com/Biagio-Marini -- References 1. http://tinyurl.com/Biagio-Marini To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
