[LUTE] Re: future of the lute
Hi, all. My $0.02. The lute died for a reason, and that reason hasn't really changed: it is not an instrument for modern concert halls. In addition, it isn't part of the "Classical Canon," being long dead when the early German musicologists did their thing. Which means it is, and will reamin, a niche instrument. Those of us who play it understand its beauty and subtlety, others may fall in love with it, but they will be few in number and odd in outlook. I don't think this is anything to worry about. Simply accept and keep playing. All this means is it is unlikely there will be too many factor lutes floating around, and I don't think that is such a bad thing. Otherwise life goes on... .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: USB Microphone
You wrote: >Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive USB microphone that I can >use with. Macbook Pro for lessons over the internet and possible home >recordings? > I quite like the Samson Meteor USB Condenser: Pretty cheap, good sound, looks cool ;-) .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Double Top
John wrote: > >Interesting article, but I would take issue with many of his points, as >did many of the 58 people that responded to the blog. > I totally agree with you, his reaction is extreme. As someone who makes electric instruments, I have no issue with loudness, none at all. And I think this technique might have an excellent application in the context of acoustic bass guitars, which are hard to make loud enough. As for lutes: they lost to guitars, back in the day, due to changing aesthetics and a move to larger venues. They tried to adapt (the theorbo) but, despite all their advantages in sound quality, they were just too soft (or too cumbersome). The guitar, especially after Torres, won, and the apotheosis of the lute remains in the first half of the 17th century. There is this funny thing many folk, guitarist and lutenist alike, have about loud. They want it, they need it, and they don't want to amplify for some reason. A can of worms but, in my opinion, you can get a better sound from subtle and accurate micing than you can from a stiffer soundboard. It doesn't have an aesthetic purity though, and that will be a catch for many. However, for me, technology is technology whether you bury in a very thin laminate or in a microphone. On the flipside, a beautiful instrument made by a master builder is a thing of beauty. I am envious of both your old Velazquez and your new Cooper, but I will have to make do with my own (unfinished) Staufferish thingy, and my Travis Carey 13c swan-neck... All the best .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Double Top
John wrote: >Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any >luthiers interested in trying? > Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure. I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really any advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process for starters, workin with nomex or similar, etc.). The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there may be occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with an overly stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of what makes a lute sound the way it does. Consider the following article for more https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 Kind regards .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Realizing a passible continuo line...
Many thanks to everyone for their advice and pointers to some excellent resources! Plenty of study coming up... :-) Regards .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Realizing a passible continuo line...
Hi, all. A bit of an open-ended question here. Suppose I given a piece of early Baroque music, take Monteverdi's duet "Ardo e scoprir"[1] by way of specific example, and I want to create a passable continuo line to support the singers (potentially with me singing one of lines). I come armed with my lute, an a-historic Dm 13c lute, a certain amount of theory, but no real clue apart from "play the indicated root" and "arpeggiate the triads". Given this is akin to asking "how do you realize a bass," can anyone point me in the direction of how you start such a journey on a lute? And if the theory is much different using a Dm lute rather than theorbo? Many thanks .. mark. [1] https://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Ardo_e_scoprir,_ahi_lasso,_io_non_ardisco_(Claudio_Monteverdi) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuner for android
You wrote: >Can anyone suggest a tuner app. I have used Cleartune on my iPad but >the reviews for the update are not good. > I get good results from Airyware Tuner. My got to for all sorts of strings To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Edition
The other point, which I realize is slightly tangential to this topic, is we can create, and share, our own personal lute books, if we so choose. Most lute books were collections of pieces from diverse authors and there is no reason we can't, for our own pleasure, take a piece from Milleran here, and Vienna there, add in a piece or two from Kalmar, and have them all look as one. This was standard practice back in the day and, with the advent of both fully-editable scores (TAB, Django, Fronimo) and page-editable scores (PDF), we have traded exclusivity (and beauty in some cases) for ease of use and sharing. Personally, I use both and find one not worse, nor better, but it is good to have options. .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: modern lute editions
Sarge wrote: >As a major purveyor of modern lute editions, I feel I need to answer >the question of "Why do it?", in the era of readily available >facsimiles. >\ As someone who has a peripheral go at doing this work I can also add to Sarge's list: 4. It is nerdy fun. Producing a document that the characteristics described -- readability, playabilty, clarity -- is a satisfaction in its own right; 5. Understanding. By going through a piece in such detail you get a somewhat different knowledge of the piece one that, certainly for a poor player like me, can really help in getting to learn the piece. 6. And, in doing this work, we can make what was once rare, the preserve of the rich, generally available to those wanting to learn. (This one is a touch more esotheric but an important motivator for me.) My $0.02... .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] [ann] Kalmar 21.068 edition
Hi, all. For want of something to do I've created an edition of the Kalmar 21.068 manuscript. While most done for my own amusement (I wanted to learn how to use TAB properly, etc.) I realize it may be of interest to others as well. If you are not familiar with the manuscript, it is a collection of 17th C pieces for 11c lute, mostly in Dm tuning, for an amateur player. Most of the tunes are from French sources (the usual suspects) but there are also some from Losy and others that are unique to this collection. The edition, along with the fasc and TAB sources, can be found at https://archsys.net/pages/lute-music/ A direct link to the edition is here https://archsys.net/files/music/Kalmar21068.pdf While there has been some quality control, I can't guarantee you won't run across errors. If you do, please let me know and I'll correct away! Kind regards ..mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Bach and the lute
Hi all. At the risk of opening a can of worms, does anyone have any theories of why there are not more (any) works by J.S. for what was, arguably, the finest solo instrument of his day? I can think of a few possible reasons: a. He wasn't paid to write for lute; b. Being an organ/keys/violin guy, he was unfamiliar with lute idiom and thought it better to stick to his knitting rather than have someone like SLW poo-poo him; c. Related to (b), there was no point when SLW was already doing what he was doing; d. He did write for the lute, it just got lost/burned/eaten by the family dog/etc.; e. Anything he wanted to say on the lute he could express on a keyboard so there was simply no need for him to go there. Or is this simply conjecture and best left to the existing "lute suites" to have the final word? Wonderingly .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All music (was Siena Manuscript No. 17 - Ricercar)
Howard wrote: > On 13.07.19 19:30, John Mardinly wrote: > >> My teenage daughter says all classical music sounds the same. I tell >> her all pop music sounds the same. Who is right? > > Ooh, easy one: > > You’re both wrong. You’re both making sweeping categorical > statements based on insufficient information. > Correct. All solo lute music -does- sound the same to someone not knowledgable in lute music; it is simply the sound of one lute plunking. But it is not the sound of a 19th C classical orchestra. Metal all sounds the same until you realise there are dozens of sub-genres. And Metal, as a group, is completely sonically very different from, say, hip-hop, soul, funk, trance, etc.. The easy out is simply to agree with one's teenage daughter. It, in my experience, saves much grief .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kalmar 21068 manuscript
Kenneth wrote: > >There is some information about the MS in my 1977 articles (in Swedish) > Many thanks! Given my Swedish is doesn't exist, can you tell me if there is any idea of who the original owner of the (these) manuscripts might have been? > >Another inventory is to be found at >[3]https://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1&type=ms&ms=S-Klm21068&lang=eng >&instr=all > I was not aware of this source. Again, many thanks! > >To my knowledge there is no facsimile of the MS. You have to ask for >copies from the museum > A kind soul has sent me a copy privately. Given the wonderful nature of of the few pieces I had (Baines has three in his book), I'm looking at putting together a performing edition for those interested. I think it would be good to have these pieces better known. .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Kalmar 21068 manuscript
Hello, all. I've finding it difficult to locate a facsimilie of the Kalmar KLM 21.068 manuscript. Can anyone enlighten me on the history of this ms? And, if possible, where I could get hold of a copy or e-copy? Many thanks .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room
Ed wrote: > When I had my Ren lute made, I specified that I wanted a scoop > because I tend to dig in. I wonder what the luthiers will answer to > this query. > Depending, a soundboard will be between 1.5 and 3.0 mm (average is about 2.2mm). If you need more room, it is usually easier to add it at the bridge and then adjust the other design parameters to suit. .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: decent field recorder for lute
Hi, Tristan. > > while we're at it: > I finally have some small budget to buy a recording device. > I very much like the Sony PCM-M10. I've no idea of how it compares pricewise, but it is an excellent portable recorder both using its internal mics and using plugins. HTH .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [OT] Tonality in the Baroque
RalfD wrote: > > ??? Whut? That system was widely used well into the 19th (!sic) > century. It's just that a lot of researches tend to skip the > early chapters of contemporary manuals. Just have a look at some of > the most important instruction manuals and how much (expensive!) > space they dedicate top proper solmization teaching. > Ha! Thank you for the explanation and the pointer. IMSLP coughed up a copy of Morley's "A Plain and Easy Introduction to Practical Music" (modern spelling :-) ) where he says: Master: But have you learned nothing at all in Music before? Student: Nothing. Therefore I pray begin at the very beginning and teach me as though I were a child. M: I will do so: and therefore behold, here is the Scale of Music which we term the Gam. ... Then must you get it perfectly without book, to say it forwards and backwards. Secondly, You must learn to know wherein every Key stands, that is in rule or in space. And thirdly, How many clefs and how many notes every Key contains. Huh. Lots of fun stuff here! Thanks again. .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] [OT] Tonality in the Baroque
Hi, all, and my apologies if I open a can-o'-worms here. I have recently been reading, as you do, an early English translation of Fux's "Gradus ad Parnassum" (from around the 1740s) and, early on, it contains the line: See the following Example in D. la.sol.re. Now this edition is a reduction of the original and skips the early part on theory and takes out the dialogues leaving the essence of compositional techniques (it is titled, "Practical Rules for Learning Composition"). Which means there is some assumed knoweldge about theory going on here. And I am, sad to say, ignorant of the actual meaning of "D la.sol.re". Can anyone please point me in the direction of a primer or similar that goes through how the English might have described tonality in the Baroque? Many thanks .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fronimo question
Ron Banks wrote: > > Also, to ride on the coattails of Guy’s comments, ported > applications often have functionality and user experience issues that > are hard to overcome. I’ve seen very few that were as pleasing to > use in their ported environment as they were in their original > version. > There are now some nice cross-platform GUI kits that have native look-and-feel across their various instances, making interaction feel good on Win, Linux, or OSX. More of the Big Bucks companies are going that way -- Photoshop is one example, Blackmagic's Resolve (video NLE editor) is another -- plus some smaller software, more comparable to Fronimo, like Cocos' Reaper DAW. While it is possible to rebase existing software, it is non-trivial, and I wouldn't expect either Francesco or Alain would have the time, interest, or energy to do that with either of their wonderful softwares. I suspect there would be very little payoff in doing so. Much as I'd like to have a native version of Fronimo, a virtual machine makes for a easy option. .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: A question; straps, standing
Hi, Josh. > The question I am wondering is, > was the Lute ever actually played standing up? >Josh > Sure. For example http://www.medici.co.uk/shop/items/three-musical-ladies As for strapping, that is a different question. Perhaps some of the historical inspectors of lutes might comment on the existence, or not, of end pins in the extant instruments? Their presence would be a sure give-away... -- mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?
My $0.02, living in Sydney Australia, is that nylgut mitigates some of he effect of fairly extreme weather changes. We can have a thunder storm roll in and have the temperature drop by 10+C in the space of as many minutes. Gut just gives up in those circumstances. Part B of this is the effect of the weather on the wood of the instrument. One of my lutes is more stable than the other in the pegbox department. When we are in a changing time, I am forced not to play this instrument for days at a time (I really don't enjoy the tune, tune, tune aspect). Then, isn't there the old adage of lute players spending half their time tuning and the other half playing out of tune? This is not a new problem, though I do believe that synthetics help. Kind regards -- mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shipping al lute to Australia
Hi, Jörg. > > I may ship a lute from Germany to Australia in the next time. Does > anybody have experiences how to do so best? What to I have to > organize? ... Can anybody help me? > Perhaps. In part, it depends what you mean by "ship". I have brought a number of lutes into Oz with me (them in the hold of an aircraft, me as passenger) and there has net been an issue (aside from the obvious one of protection). If you are shipping it through the post/courier, then there are some other issue that come up. It will be inspected, which means that protection for the remainder of the journey will be an issue. And there will be a tax (we use the term GST) of 10% if the instrument is values over AUD$1000. We support the endangered species convention but require no official confirmation/paperwork. In practice, I have never heard of that being an issue with any modern musical instrument. I hope this helps a little. -- mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The Huntes Up: meaning?
Monica wrote: > > Not clear which King Harry though as there were 8 of them. > The noted hunter, fighter and all-round Renaissance one, Hal Tudor (Henry VIII, King of All England, Ireland, France, etc.). -- mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Portqble recorders
Hi, Anthony. You wrote: > Has anyone had any experience of CD quality portable recorders for > recording live performances (legally)? > I have a Sony PCM-M10 that I am extremely happy with. The built-in microphones are very good and the recording is accurate and detailed (this mostly on choral music and Baroque stuff in halls and churches). Highly recommended. Regards, -- mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute-Friendly Stereos
Hi, Benjamin. You wrote: > >I am in the process of looking for a new stereo system. Might any > of you on the list have any suggestions in this regard? I am looking > for a proper component system, probably at around the 500 Euro mark. > I am very impressed with the King-Rex components www.kingrex.com I have no idea of their pricing in Euro but I suspect that they are in your price range. I have a pre-amp and one of their class-T amps. They are warm and accurate, reminiscent of a much more expensive valve amps. Well work checking out. Regards, -- mark. (+61.416.808.725/+1.250.483.5477) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Fret tying on a theorbo
Hi, all. I haven't quite got the hang of tying my own frets on my 13c swan-neck. The fret gut is quite thick (1.10) for the second fret and I my issue is that the gut is hard to tie into a good tight knot. Does anyone have any tips? Do you soak the end of the gut to flex it up a little? Or just pull harder and tighter? Any experienced advice appreciated. Many thanks? . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: who is this guy?
>anyone ever met this guy? http://baychico.com/ . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strike the viol
> A new Purcell video from The Purcell Project, Strike the viol, > arranged for Tenor, two violins and continuo. Just lovely, David. Excellent work! . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any vestigial Renaissance spots left?
Mr Ward wrote: > Laboring under the idea that the Renaissance musicians were a product > of their times, I wonder to what extent it might be possible to visit, > as a tourist, spots in the world with Renaissance-like attributes in > their culture (cities, neighborhoods, music schools, etc). Were I to pick one town and event that stands out as a vestigal Renaissance, then my choice would be the Palio in Siena. The twon is one of my favorites in Italy, with perhaps, the best cathedral in Tuscany. And the Palio has been run in the same place (the main "square"), in the same way, since medieval times (14-15C). There are many other towns as well that have a Renaissance feel. But most require you look past the 17C House-style additions to churches and the like. . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tablature software programs
Hi... > On 08/16/2011 11:12 AM, R. Mattes wrote: > > > > I have to aconfess that I'm not too enthusiastic about XML as a storage > > format for (lute) tablature. > > I second your last statement. > I also agree, thinking that XML is a pox on all our houses :-) However, in this case, having a standard format would be good. And XML does provide a syntax that could work, if in a rather inefficient and verbose manner. My issue is that the MusicXML format is just not going to work very well for lute music. It is meant for a different purpose, one that doesn;t suit our community very well at all, even though there is superficial similarities. I suppose that one option would be for the extended software-using lute community to come up with its own standard. Form an "interest group" within the IETF (or whatever is applicable to this context) and define our own standard. After all, the majority of us use one of Fronimo (Francesco), Django (Alain), TAB (Wayne) or Sibelius. That is not too many to get on-board. And it seems like Alain has already put in a lot of effort... . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tablature software programs
Hi, Alain... > > However, it must be noted that the MusicXML format is not extremely > friendly to music in tablature format... In looking quickly at the MusicXML 3.0 spec (link below) I would agree. Further, I would argue that it is not very friendly to pre-Classical Western music. For example, I am not sure how one would go about defining a temperament in this format. My $0.02 is that they have made a big mistake by basic the XML schema upon a MIDI implementation. I would suggest that this is not the way to go for tablature. Then, the question that needs to be asked is who is the XML meant for? What is its purpose in being? To seamlessly go between notation programs? To provide some "future proofing"? I am not sure that is going to be possible... http://www.recordare.com/musicxml/specification/dtd . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Board Ms?
> Does anyone know if there is a downloadable copy of the Board manuscript > out there? I have been unable to find it in the usual spots. > Doh! That would be "Margaret Broad's Lute Book", of course. . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Medieval Lute
Hi, David.. You wrote: > > I'm thinking of getting into a type of lute music I've never played > before, namely medieval lute. Problem is, I don't know where to find > the music. > To answer this in a slightly different way, there is quite a lot of music out there if you know where to look. For example, a good friend of mine has recently made a performer's transcription of the Cantigas de Santa Maria of Alfonso X cheaply available http://gaita.co.uk/publications.html It is pretty much a single line. Then, that was the way it was done. It seemed that, when in a group, people would play the harmonies that were then known (see Mr Duffin's excellent book for ideas). So, if you are after "solo medieval lute", then take a four-course lute (or oud, or whatever), a plectrum (or quill) and start playing the tunes. Hope this helps .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Baroque Tutor
Hi, Benjamin... > > Why not get all the tutors available, since everyone has their own > method and ideas? > Indeed. I have ordered the Lundgren and the Yisrael. Thank you, and Ed, for your advice. . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Baroque Tutor
Hello, dear collective wisdom... I am about to embark on a Baroque lute journey, first stop France and places north (think de Visee and early 17th C). Can anyone recommend any tutors for such, both period and modern? I notice that there is one by Miguel Yisreal published by Ut Orpheus, and another published by Tree courtesy of Mr Satoh. Are these of value? Any others that come to mind? Many thanks .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: de Boesset marking
Many thanks, Arto and David. As you can tell, I am not too familiar with this material. Thank you for your help. > [Arto wrote:] > I think that could be the place of the "petit reprise", the place where > from you have to repeat the end of the piece. Very common in French > baroque. > I am not 100% sure how that would work in practice. For example, many of the pieces seem to be in an A-B form with a lyric like [1]: Mortels, mettes fin a vos larmes, Calmes vos coeurs ramplis d'allarmes [repeat mark] [petit reprise] Le ciel rit a vos desirs, Et l'air gracieux vous promet mile plaisirs [double bar + two chords] And then there is a second verse of four lines, obviously to be done in the same pattern. Would this mean, in practice, that you would do the first two lines twice (the repeat), then do the next two, add the two chords, and then do those two lines again? Basically, the petite reprise is just a normal repeat? Or am I missing something simple here? [1] This is from "Ballet de la Reyne", from page 15 of de Boesset's tenth book of Airs de Cour of 1621. Interestingly, for me anyway, these pieces all seem to be set for a lute in G, of 7 to 9 courses. And they are quite fun to play, though I am not so sure how well they will sing. One step at a time :) . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] de Boesset marking
Hi... Just ploughing my way through some de Boesset songs from his 10th book and I have run across a marking I am not familiar with. It is like a little mirrored upside-down question-mark with two dots above it. There is an equivalent mark in the vocal line that looks like a cursive lower-j, again with two dots above. I am guessing that this is an emphasis mark with a little pause. Can anyone fill me in on the correct interpretation of this little guy? Many thanks. . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sonic Research ST-122 tuner
For day-to-day, I am very happy with my Pickboy QT-01. Its primary advantage is that it is very small and fits in my lute case. -- -mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Facsimiles
Hi, Sean.. (a follow-up to the list :) ) Being exactly there myself, here is my current list: 1 Diverse authori, helps with the knowing of Italian tab & wonderful music 2 School of Musick, much goodness to be found in Mr Robinson, plus duets 3 Secret des muse, late Ren and a cool introduction to Baroque notation 4 Sampson, for the incidentals 5 a book of songs, say Campion or Bossensensis, to go with a soprano :) -- -mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Facsimile Ms.1511b
Hello... Does anyone know if Ms.1511b is available on-line yet? It is a BSB (Bayerische Staatsbibliothek) volume, though I am unable to find it through their search engine (the closest I found was a violin work from 1511). Many thanks, .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Pepys and the Italian Music
Hello.. The following from Mr Pepys on Easter Sunday, 7 April 1667: "...and then to walk in the Parke, and heard the Italian musique at the Queens chapel, whose composition is fine, but yet the voices of eunuchs I do not like like our women, nor am more pleased with it at all than with English voices, but that they do jump most excellently with themselves and their instrument, which is wonderful pleasant; but I am convinced more and more, that, as every nation has a particular accent and tone in discourse, so as the tone of one not to agree with or please the other, no more can the fashion of singing to words, for that the better the words are set, the more they take in of the ordinary tone of the country whose language the song speaks, so that a song well composed by an Englishman must be better to an Englishman than it can be to a stranger, or than if set by a stranger in foreign words." Some arguments never get old, do they? My guess is that the music was by the Albrici boys who were looking after "The King's Italian Musick" at the time. Anyone hazard a guess if that is correct? .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Minkoff Editions
Hello, all.. In attempting, very recently, to order a Minkoff edition, the distributor mentions that they are in serious trouble, financially. Does anyone know if this is true? Many thanks. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dallis lute book
Hi... t> t> Does anyone know if the 'Dallis' lute book in Trinity College, Dublin (Ms. D. 3. 30 ) is all in renaissance tuning (or transitional), and has it ever been published, or made available online? t> thanks t> I have tried to track this one down as well. I believe that the short answers are: Renaissance, no, and no. There are some tunes available in collections from the English Lute Society, though I have no way of verifying their accuracy. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Amarilli
Hello. In addition to learning the lute, I have started formal vocal training. In choosing to sing Caccini I have hit the "how do you play and sing at the same time?" problem. Any cunning ideas? And when reading from a figured bass how dense is the chordal underlay? Less than with a separate Singer? Thanks Regards .. mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Air de cours
DvO> DvO> bring out your DvO> Many thanks, David! Brilliant, as usual. I also found http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~john-powell/AirsDeDifferentsCompositeurs/ Though the quality leaves something to be desired... .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Air de cours
Hi.. I am wondering if anyone has any pointers to facsimile editions, on-line by preference, of early French Baroque air de cours. Folk such as Antoine Boesset, Germain Pinel, Michel Lambert, Sebastien le Camus and, of course, M-A Charpentier (he is the easiest to find). Any help greatly appreciated. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
One could argue that the 13th rule of Le Roy (1568) calls for rest strokes. And as it was used in Barley that it remained practice. Or I may be mistaken, again :) Regards .. mark On 19 Jan 2010 11:11, "David Tayler" <[1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Some teachers teach the rest stroke in the bass for both renaissance and baroque. I don't, because it unfortunately affects the wrist and then the tone. I've heard some people do it it well, but there is often a bump in the sound, and also the technique is prone to timing issues. Perhaps that is fixable. You can make a case for a "grazing" stroke, however. I do teach and rely upon the single graze and double graze for chords, and particularly for the earlier repertory. Basically, the thumb hits one or two and the first finger hits two, three, or four simultaneously. When struck properly, all strings vibrate in a plane, which I now can test with a high speed camcorder. dt At 03:34 PM 1/18/2010, you wrote: >Do any early sources describe something that could be interpre... -- References 1. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: What makes a lute stay in tune?
At the risk of speaking out of turn here (I am not a maker)... HW> HW> Ignoring for a moment the tuning instability of gut strings, what HW> construction details make a lute stay in tune better? Is staying HW> in tune a sign of a good lute? HW> Wood, by its nature, will absorb moisture. As it does so, it expands. Different woods expand at different rates. Glues also do the same, though to a less extent. So, the ambient temperature and humidity will influence each wood in its own way, until some sort of stability is reached. Given that lutes are made from a variety of woods, in a stable environment a well made lute will stay pretty much in tune. In a not so kind environment, such as the sub-tropical summer here in Sydney, tuning each time becomes an issue. Not because of the well-madeness of my instrument (it was perfectly stable in Victoria BC) but due to the swings in temperature and humidity (up to a daily 10C and 35%). As the wood acclimatises to Sydney (along with me!), it might get a little more stable. And, for reference, I am using Nylgut. Hope this helps a little. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Zwingli
In perusing Wikipedia the other day, I ran across the following on Ulrich Zwingli, the great Swiss Reformation leader: "Zwingli enjoyed music ...and was so well-known for his playing that his enemies mocked him as "the evangelical lute-player and fifer". Three of Zwingli's Lieder or hymns have been preserved: the Pestlied mentioned above, an adaptation of Psalm 65 (ca. 1525), and the Kappeler Lied, which is believed to have been composed during the campaign of the first war of Kappel (1529)." [1] And I was wondering if anyone knew what form these tunes existed in. Given he was a lutenist, I wonder if there is tab for them, which I assume would be in the German form. And given the early date, they could be rather interesting for a number of reasons. Anyone with any pointers, or checked this out in the past? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huldrych_Zwingli#Music .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gibbons: Christ Church Mus. 21
I am wondering if any of the wonderful folk on this list are aware of any manuscript copies of the Gibbons in Christ Church Mus 21. Specifically, I am interested in No 42, "Record of John". http://library.chch.ox.ac.uk/music/page.php?set=Mus.+21 Many thanks! .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Terminology: brise
The recent thread on Saint Luc brought up the term "brisé" (final e-accute) that I had not read before. So I went to Groves and found that "Style brisé" refers to a broken appeggiation style, which, in reference to early French Baroque lute music, I am familiar with. Interestingly, that term, "Style brisé", can't be traced back further than 1928 and one La Laurencie's "Les luthistes" (Paris, 1928). Apparently, back in the day, Couperin referred to the technique as 'luthé'. Thing is, he was referring to harpsichordists using the lute style, not a lutenist using that style. So now we are describing a lute technique using a keyboard style name that was originally used to describe a lute style. Excellent! .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Balletti moderni
Many thanks! LM> LM> - Fabritio Caroso, LM> http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/musdibib:@field(numb...@band(musdi+199)) LM> I am not sure how to get to the facsimile from that link... .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Balleti moderno
Hi, all.. I have been playing some pieces from Stephan Lundgren's excellent collection and some of the stuff attributed to "Balleti moderno (1613)" (rough, I am away from the reference) has made me wonder about the original. Does anyone know who the author(s) were and if there is a facsimile floating around? -- Best regards .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The reason we play lutes
Lest we consider this kind of "noise" unique to our generation, consider the following entry from around this day in 1664 by our dear friend Mr Pepys: "So to the Coffeehouse, and there fell in discourse with the Secretary of the Virtuosi of Gresham College, and had very fine discourse with him. He tells me of a new invented instrument to be tried before the College anon, and I intend to see it. ... Thence to the Musique-meeting at the Postoffice, where I was once before. And thither anon come all the Gresham College, and a great deal of noble company: and the new instrument was brought called the Arched Viall, where being tuned with lute-strings, and played on with kees like an organ, a piece of parchment is always kept moving; and the strings, which by the kees are pressed down upon it, are grated in imitation of a bow, by the parchment; and so it is intended to resemble several vyalls played on with one bow, but so basely and harshly, that it will never do. But after three hours stay it could not be fixed in tune; and so they were fain to go to some other musique of instruments, which I am grown quite out of love with ..." Perhaps we are fortunate for a polyfoam of only seven minutes? .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: : Cost of a lute?
Kevin wrote:
KK> Carbon fiber is not exactly an inexpensive alternative...
KK> requires a pretty high level of skilled labor.
KK> Maybe in China it could be cost effective to try it, but there are
KK> other problems still, as Mark suggests ("the look of the thing") in
KK> having it accepted- that is, in being able to sell it, once it's made.
KK>
Right. Funnily enough, I figure that the carbon fibre (or some other
composite) will actually be the easy and cheap part. There is still
lots of skilled work, for example in making the soundboard work well,
what to use for ribbing, and so on.
Far and away the biggest problem will be acceptance. The early music
crowd, which includes me, will always prefer a beautiful wood instrument,
hand-crafted by a professional with love and skill. And they would look
askance at this kind of abomination, regardless of how well it played
(think of Altos and their Baroque plastic recorders, which can be
phenomenally good but they ain't wood).
Ovation are a niche player in the guitar world, as are a number of other
innovative-material manufacturers. The "trick" is to get suitable
endorsements from "known names". In this case, I figure that the best
thing would be to try and grow a completely new market, where this kind
of instrument becomes desirable. I am not convinced that is possible,
though if Mr Sting is watching ;)
.. mark
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[LUTE] Re: : Cost of a lute?
Morgan wrote: mc> I wonder if you could relatively inexpensively construct a lute (the bowl, mc> at minimum) from carbon fiber (like some acoustic guitars) or molded plastic mc> (like an Ovation guitar), and what it would sound like? mc> I was wondering this exact thing myself, with more than a passing interest (my brother-in-law is a materials scientist in the carbon-fibre / fiberglass game, with manufacturing contacts all around SE Asia). There are a number of open questions, such as mold costs, but the biggest would be the soundboard. That would need to be wood. And then there is the look of the thing. My other thought on doing a instrument like that would be to add a pickup and end-pin jack out of the box (think: new market). Now for the business case :) I figure the price point would need to be in the USD$600 - 800 range to make this a viable option, including case. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: : Cost of a lute?
Seth wrote: SA>So the thread about student lutes and costs has got my brain working... SA>and let me state right away that by profession I am a business man and SA>not am musician. SA> I would also think that the primary market for these instruments would be the Eastern oud market. Whilst I can't confirm it, I would think that the lutes are just ouds that are retro fitted to make "lutes". If someone were to get a Pakistani factory to make proper student lutes, they would surely have the skills. Fair bet that they have never seen a western lute for real. Given one to take apart and measure, they would be able to make a pretty good copy, quite cheaply, I would think. Whether there is a Western market for such an instrument, that is the matter for a proper business case. I would suspect that there might be in certain places. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute Factories
Does anyone know if, back in the day, there was the equivalent of the Cremona factories for lutes? Or were lutes always a custom-built instrument? .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New lute music
Roman wrote: RT> ...and some early music playable only in ET. RT> I haven't run across that argument before. Can you point me in the direction of some examples? As an aside, and I ask as a straight question meaning no offence, I would be interested to know what makes any music only playable one temperament and not another. Surely any music can be played on any instrument capable of playing it, even if it doesn't sound well (back to the original thread of this conversation). Are you suggesting that there was certain period music that would just sound completely horrible in just, or meantone? That doesn't make sense to me, though I am open to be convinced. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] ET FunFest [was: Re: New lute music]
Hi.. RT> ET was invented long before, and was advocated by Galilei, Frescobaldi, RT> Werckmeister, and many others. RT> This is as I thought prior to reading Prof Duffin's book on temperament. Whilst it was "invented", and whilst people said they used it, it seems as though, in practice, no-one did. It was not until 1917 that the techniques and tools needed to tune in ET became common. Before that, measurement of Chopin's preferred tuning (when in London he had a favourite tuner, and his pianos were measured at the time) showed that it was in a cyclic 11th comma MT. And he liked the tonal colours that way. Go figure. RT> Why not? Fingerboard topography gives enough color, so why mistune? RT> Back in the day, many keyboards were split-keyed. The reason that they died was not through tuning, or because of the music, but due to expense. As someone once pointed out, "ET makes all keys equally out of tune". It really depends what you are after, I think. Nice thirds? ET is not the way to go. .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New lute music
Roman wrote: RT> It seems that the richness of lute overtones is NOT conducive to gratuitous RT> dissonance that is de rigeur in most modernist and neomodernist music. Agreed. I also think that it also has something to do with temperament. Modern composers, on the whole, tend to ignore anything other than ET and lutes are not creatures of ET, IMO. They were born in a time of keys ranging from B-flat through G, including their minors (I exaggerate, though there is a grain of truth), and I am not sure that atonal is the best use of them. Or multikey tonal, for that matter. For my ear, none of these pieces, interesting that they are, nailed this tonality issue. In the same manner, I would not suggest using a concert harp as the lead soloist instrument of an electric blues band. Whilst it may be possible, and interesting for a brief, disjoint moment, it is not quite in the spirit of either the music or the instrument. Now, using a blues harp is a different matter ;) .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New lute music
Peter wrote: PM>Hey, you hordes of contemporary lute music fans. Have a look at... PM>The Australian ABC broadcasting company commissioned four composers to PM>write works for lute or theorbo, PM> I am a novice when it comes to listening to "new lute music". And, to be honest, these works don't really do anything for me, much as I appreciate their harmonic intensity and Mr Andersson's playing. It seems, to my naif ear, that the composers don't really understand the lute and how it works. Given the intervals and the tonality, why not just play this stuff on a guitar? And there were times when Mr A didn't look at all comfortable with the shifts and positions he was asked to use. Please don't take me for a Luddite that is lost in the 16thC: it just ain't so. If anyone can point me in the direction of the New Music that understands the lute, I'd really love to hear it. -- Best regards .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Imbalance
At the risk of being called politically incorrect, I would note the observation and say "OK, nothing wrong here". There seems to be this assumption that we -should- have more women, though, for the life of me I am not sure why (aside from the obvious nooky issue). After all, it is not as if anyone, man or woman, African or Asian, can't pick-up said instrument and go for it. Yet they don't. I don't believe that anything is wrong, or that anything needs fixing. Just my $0.02. -- Best regards .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Tosi and Baroque tunings
Hi, all.. I have been having fun reading Prof Duffin's "How ET Ruined Harmony" and wanted to ask about Baroque tunings wrt lutes, theorbos, et al. According to Prof D, most late Baroque (post 1650) and Classical tuning was done using the scheme written out by one Pier Francesco Tosi. In this scheme he divides a tone into nine parts (commas) with an octave consists of 55 commas. He thus differentiates between a "major semitone" (diatonic) at 5 commas and a "minor semitone" (chromatic) at 4 commas. In terms of our modern cents, the major semitone is around 109.1 cents and the minor at 87.3, for a noticeable difference of almost 22 cents. From my reading, it seems that most continuo players tune to MT, whereas this tuning is closer to a "modified 6th-comma". Is this the case? Or does it vary based on circumstance? For example, if playing in an orchestra with harpsichord, then one tunes to the harpsichord temperament. If one is solo with a singer, then one is free as to temperament. Any thoughts? -- Best regards .. mark. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Edward Martin/who nose?
Dana wrote: |> > |> >> "They must be played with a somewhat fast air [so much for the slow |> >> pavan] |> |> well, perhaps the tempo can be varied enough to get that certain peacock |> and his retinue thru the line as quickly as possible; perhaps at a wedding |> when the priest is visibly impatient for whatever reason. |> You are right about the pavan and its purpose, though I wonder how that relates to the playing of same on a lute. Practically, your average lute is not a loud instrument, and certainly tends to get lost in the noise of your average dance. Leave aside the stepping and swishing, there is also the on-going clatter, voices, and so on. All in all, it is not the best instrument for playing dances, aside from very intimate ones. My take on it is that the tactus becomes crucial. So when the mid to late 16thC write "pavan" they possibly mean "in the style of a pavan", rather than "grab your partner". The implication is that once the tactus is set, you stay at that tempo. If the piece moves into three then the tactus remains on the one, and we go measure for measure. Seems to work for me. -- Best regards .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Marriage at Cana
That is a fascinating painting for all sorts of reasons. Apparently the painter, Jan Vermeyen, spent a fair amount of time in Spain, and I wonder if his "lutenist" might not have been a composite of his northern (lute) and southern (vihuela) experiences? It seems as though that lute has a number of quite vihuela characteristics (primary rose, other sounding holes). Or perhaps there were models like this in the Spanish Netherlands? Combining the best of both worlds, so to speak. Here is the link to the painting details etc: http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/collectie/zoeken/asset.jsp?id=SK-A-4820&lang=en -- Best regards .. mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
